Anyone planning on never retiring?

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visualguy
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Re: Anyone planning on never retiring?

Post by visualguy »

willthrill81 wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:22 pm
DonIce wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:20 am Bogleheads are very very focused on retirement.
You speak as though it's a bad thing to put energy into being financially ready to retire. While I agree that focusing too much on 'golden years' that may be cut short is not healthy, Americans in general don't focus nearly enough on retirement (remember that nearly half of Baby Boomers haven't saved anything for retirement).

Over half of current retirees got that way involuntarily, commonly through being pushed out of their career, having personal health issues, or needing to take care of a family member with health issues.

You might want to keep working but become unable to far sooner than you had planned.
It's definitely important and good to prepare and be ready financially. Actually pulling the trigger on retiring voluntarily is a different matter, though... The financial aspect is good to focus on. Focusing on actually retiring - I don't know - it depends a lot on individual circumstances... I could see myself never retiring if I really liked my job and continued to be good at it. My dad retired at 80, and even then not fully - he's still doing some paid work in his 80s.
flyingaway
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Re: Anyone planning on never retiring?

Post by flyingaway »

flyingaway wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:18 pm
blueblock wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:49 pm Everyone's different. To give one example, while I love reading about Victoria's adventures whenever she shares them, I would not want her life. It sounds like way too much work for anything I'd be interested in. Maybe I'm just getting "stupid" at two years into retirement, though in my own defense, I don't watch television, having gone Internet-only a decade ago. I could do the things she does, but I don't want to, and therein lies my point. I'm using my financial independence to do what I want to do, and for now that is living on a lake in semi-rural Wisconsin, enjoying nature, domestic tranquility and the absence of commitments. And, yes, walking the dogs.

It seems to be a peculiarly American affliction that we feel like we must strive, even in leisure, but I've never bought into that mind set. I think that "doing nothing" is a perfectly noble pursuit if that is one's choice.
+1. When I retire, I just want to do nothing that is intellectually challenging. Lying on beach and drinking cold beer is just an acceptable retirement practice for me.
Surprisingly, I still like my own answer given here two and a half years ago.
tesuzuki2002
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Re: Anyone planning on never retiring?

Post by tesuzuki2002 »

if you "retire" and do absolutely nothing with your days and your life you will likely become stupid, yes.... Keep growing, learning and doing things just on your own accord!!
MathIsMyWayr
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Re: Anyone planning on never retiring?

Post by MathIsMyWayr »

Dottie57 wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:49 pm I'm gonna retire. Maybe Monday, maybe in 5 years. Unless I am dead.

I have the beginnings of a plan. Auditing some colkege classes. Pursuing a hobby, maybe selling what I make. Take classes in interesting cities for my hobby.

Lots of books to read. Meals with friends. Help mom as she ages.m
If you are so anxious or passionate to learn something which you feel dear to you, you should take classes for credit, not just audit. Go through all the exercises and exams. You should feel the consequences if you don't do well. Auditing is not much different from watching sports games safely removed from the real action in the spectator stand. Taking part in a mock fight is not the same as struggling for life or death in an actual battle.
nigel_ht
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Re: Anyone planning on never retiring?

Post by nigel_ht »

MathIsMyWayr wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:23 pm
Dottie57 wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:49 pm I'm gonna retire. Maybe Monday, maybe in 5 years. Unless I am dead.

I have the beginnings of a plan. Auditing some colkege classes. Pursuing a hobby, maybe selling what I make. Take classes in interesting cities for my hobby.

Lots of books to read. Meals with friends. Help mom as she ages.m
If you are so anxious or passionate to learn something which you feel dear to you, you should take classes for credit, not just audit. Go through all the exercises and exams. You should feel the consequences if you don't do well. Auditing is not much different from watching sports games safely removed from the real action in the spectator stand. Taking part in a mock fight is not the same as struggling for life or death in an actual battle.
Do whichever makes you happy but I never wanted to be THAT guy...the retired guy taking classes for credit and breaking the curve because he could and did spend all day on whatever it was. The guy sitting up front asking "deep" questions and derailing the lecture for everyone else who just wanted to graduate and start their own career.

And while mock fights aren't the same as actual battle you also tend to not end up dead in mock fights. At our age you don't have anything you need to prove to anyone else. But if that's what it takes for you to feel alive, go for it.
DonIce
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Re: Anyone planning on never retiring?

Post by DonIce »

nigel_ht wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:56 pm Do whichever makes you happy but I never wanted to be THAT guy...the retired guy taking classes for credit and breaking the curve because he could and did spend all day on whatever it was. The guy sitting up front asking "deep" questions and derailing the lecture for everyone else who just wanted to graduate and start their own career.
Don't think I ever saw such a person in all my years of undergrad and grad school. I'm pretty convinced retirees taking college classes is a fantasy some people have in their minds until they actually retire, but when they finally do retire, actually following through is essentially unheard of.
squirm
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Re: Anyone planning on never retiring?

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Just read the title, not the body.
Nope, I would want to retire, the sooner the better to be with the family and kids. There are people at my work that have no kids, no family, no spouse and basically no outside interest either, so they just continue coming in everyday getting their soul sucked out of them, first to get in and last to leave...kinda sad really.
Last edited by squirm on Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
capran
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Re: Anyone planning on never retiring?

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Kinda like that financial commercial where the guy talks about all the things he's done and says "what if I don't want to retire?" and the guy says develop a plan for what's next. If you love working, nothing wrong with that. I loved work until I got the principal from hell and pulled the plug after 3 years under them. Best thing I every did, and maybe should have done it earlier. We have always spent the summer sailing full time, as my job was off during the summer. We sailed to the Bahamas for 13 summers and this summer will (hopefully) be our 21st summer sailing in the NW (mostly San Juans and BC), so that has never varied. Since retiring we added 2 full months in Mexico every winter and a 4 to 6 week camping trip to the SW every fall. The rest of the time is spent grandparenting and yard as well as short mini trips and home improvement. Wouldn't have had that without the time retirement has given me. There may come a time that health and age combine to limit my retired life, but at almost 68 I can still sail, anchor, hike 8 miles, etc, so am hoping for quite a few more years. I have had several friends pass shortly after retiring, so I know there are no guarantees. But I sure don't want to leave things not done that I could have done.
squirm
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Re: Anyone planning on never retiring?

Post by squirm »

capran wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:07 pm Kinda like that financial commercial where the guy talks about all the things he's done and says "what if I don't want to retire?" and the guy says develop a plan for what's next. If you love working, nothing wrong with that. I loved work until I got the principal from hell and pulled the plug after 3 years under them. Best thing I every did, and maybe should have done it earlier. We have always spent the summer sailing full time, as my job was off during the summer. We sailed to the Bahamas for 13 summers and this summer will (hopefully) be our 21st summer sailing in the NW (mostly San Juans and BC), so that has never varied. Since retiring we added 2 full months in Mexico every winter and a 4 to 6 week camping trip to the SW every fall. The rest of the time is spent grandparenting and yard as well as short mini trips and home improvement. Wouldn't have had that without the time retirement has given me. There may come a time that health and age combine to limit my retired life, but at almost 68 I can still sail, anchor, hike 8 miles, etc, so am hoping for quite a few more years. I have had several friends pass shortly after retiring, so I know there are no guarantees. But I sure don't want to leave things not done that I could have done.
that's awesome. I love reading post like this. But what do you mean by you "got the principal from hell"? I take it that means a terrible supervisor or school principal?
MathIsMyWayr
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Re: Anyone planning on never retiring?

Post by MathIsMyWayr »

squirm wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:01 pm Just read the title, not the body.
Nope, I would want to retire, the sooner the better to be with the family and kids. There are people at my work that have no kids, no family, no spouse and basically no outside interest either, so they just continue coming in everyday getting their soul sucked out of them, first to get in and last to leave...kinda sad really.
"they just continue coming in everyday getting their soul sucked out of them" Do you view your work this way? Why don't you find another job, career, or get education for one which you feel differently before too late?
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willthrill81
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Re: Anyone planning on never retiring?

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MathIsMyWayr wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:23 pm
squirm wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:01 pm Just read the title, not the body.
Nope, I would want to retire, the sooner the better to be with the family and kids. There are people at my work that have no kids, no family, no spouse and basically no outside interest either, so they just continue coming in everyday getting their soul sucked out of them, first to get in and last to leave...kinda sad really.
"they just continue coming in everyday getting their soul sucked out of them" Do you view your work this way? Why don't you find another job, career, or get education for one which you feel differently before too late?
Ideally, such people would do precisely that. But many cannot for any number of reasons, such as not having the time, ability, or funds to get an education for a new career path. Changing jobs (i.e. companies) may help but not always.

I really feel for such people. Long ago, I had a job that I hated so much that I didn't want to open my eyes in the morning because I knew I would have to go it. Thankfully, I was able to move on from it in due time. Not everyone can.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings
squirm
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Re: Anyone planning on never retiring?

Post by squirm »

willthrill81 wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:30 pm
MathIsMyWayr wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:23 pm
squirm wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:01 pm Just read the title, not the body.
Nope, I would want to retire, the sooner the better to be with the family and kids. There are people at my work that have no kids, no family, no spouse and basically no outside interest either, so they just continue coming in everyday getting their soul sucked out of them, first to get in and last to leave...kinda sad really.
"they just continue coming in everyday getting their soul sucked out of them" Do you view your work this way? Why don't you find another job, career, or get education for one which you feel differently before too late?
Ideally, such people would do precisely that. But many cannot for any number of reasons, such as not having the time, ability, or funds to get an education for a new career path. Changing jobs (i.e. companies) may help but not always.

I really feel for such people. Long ago, I had a job that I hated so much that I didn't want to open my eyes in the morning because I knew I would have to go it. Thankfully, I was able to move on from it in due time. Not everyone can.
I know, it's sad on many fronts.
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willthrill81
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Re: Anyone planning on never retiring?

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squirm wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:31 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:30 pm
MathIsMyWayr wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:23 pm
squirm wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:01 pm Just read the title, not the body.
Nope, I would want to retire, the sooner the better to be with the family and kids. There are people at my work that have no kids, no family, no spouse and basically no outside interest either, so they just continue coming in everyday getting their soul sucked out of them, first to get in and last to leave...kinda sad really.
"they just continue coming in everyday getting their soul sucked out of them" Do you view your work this way? Why don't you find another job, career, or get education for one which you feel differently before too late?
Ideally, such people would do precisely that. But many cannot for any number of reasons, such as not having the time, ability, or funds to get an education for a new career path. Changing jobs (i.e. companies) may help but not always.

I really feel for such people. Long ago, I had a job that I hated so much that I didn't want to open my eyes in the morning because I knew I would have to go it. Thankfully, I was able to move on from it in due time. Not everyone can.
I know, it's sad on many fronts.
I find it very interesting that the data I'm aware of suggests that a great many of those who become financially independent prior to about age 40 leave their first career and then go on to another career, often one with a strong entrepreneurial slant, that they are really interested in and enthused about. It also appears that a great many of these people wind up making more money from their new career in three to five years than they were earning from their first career. Joshua Sheets has observed this happen so many times that he wishes that people who are indeed miserable in their career would just build up a few years of spending and then take the career change plunge before they become financially independent. But while that might work for some, many may not be able to circumvent the security that comes from actually being financially independent. I would imagine that the confidence that FI provides to those with an entrepreneurial mindset could be extremely beneficial, enabling the person to truly focus on making the endeavor succeed and not worry about paying their bills.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings
visualguy
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Re: Anyone planning on never retiring?

Post by visualguy »

squirm wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:01 pm Just read the title, not the body.
Nope, I would want to retire, the sooner the better to be with the family and kids. There are people at my work that have no kids, no family, no spouse and basically no outside interest either, so they just continue coming in everyday getting their soul sucked out of them, first to get in and last to leave...kinda sad really.
Not sure how the spending time with kids works unless you retire really early, so your kids are still little... In my experience, kids live their lives once they grow up, and don't want/need to spend much time with their parents.
squirm
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Re: Anyone planning on never retiring?

Post by squirm »

visualguy wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:48 pm
squirm wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:01 pm Just read the title, not the body.
Nope, I would want to retire, the sooner the better to be with the family and kids. There are people at my work that have no kids, no family, no spouse and basically no outside interest either, so they just continue coming in everyday getting their soul sucked out of them, first to get in and last to leave...kinda sad really.
Not sure how the spending time with kids works unless you retire really early, so your kids are still little... In my experience, kids live their lives once they grow up, and don't want/need to spend much time with their parents.
I guess everyone is different. We're a close family. My mother is, let's just say, very elderly, but I'm always there helping. We're also "old" parents, so our kids are still young. I know some families were the kids split once college is over or their old enough. I guess it just depends.
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Re: Anyone planning on never retiring?

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MathIsMyWayr wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:23 pm
Dottie57 wrote: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:49 pm I'm gonna retire. Maybe Monday, maybe in 5 years. Unless I am dead.

I have the beginnings of a plan. Auditing some colkege classes. Pursuing a hobby, maybe selling what I make. Take classes in interesting cities for my hobby.

Lots of books to read. Meals with friends. Help mom as she ages.m
If you are so anxious or passionate to learn something which you feel dear to you, you should take classes for credit, not just audit. Go through all the exercises and exams. You should feel the consequences if you don't do well. Auditing is not much different from watching sports games safely removed from the real action in the spectator stand. Taking part in a mock fight is not the same as struggling for life or death in an actual battle.
I’ve taken some classes on Udemy. Have a couple I want to take on Coursera.
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Re: Anyone planning on never retiring?

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I can't wait to retire and get stupid.
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HomerJ
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Re: Anyone planning on never retiring?

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DonIce wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:20 am Bogleheads are very very focused on retirement.

Personally, as long as I can still work in my field, I would choose to do so. Given that the work is mostly intellectual, I would hope that would be until I'm age 110 or so. I'm highly optimistic that most diseases that affect the functioning of the brain (like Alzheimer's) will be preventable/curable/treatable by then. Find what your passion is and do that, then it doesn't feel like work.

I aimed my whole life to be doing what I am doing now; it's what I always wanted to do. Why would I want to stop just because my bank account gets big enough?

As I discussed in one of the recent FIRE threads, I fundamentally don't understand people that go into careers they hate and then count the days til retirement so they can have a few good years after a life of misery, rather than just doing what they love from the beginning, even if it pays less. Philosophical difference I guess.
Is every hour of your work-life enjoyable? What is your job? Are there really no moments that you wish you were doing something different?

Serious question. What exactly do you do for a living?
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HomerJ
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Re: Anyone planning on never retiring?

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stoptothink wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:31 pmFor the most part, both of our employers have a very strict no WFH policy (although I personally have a lot of autonomy) but I think this is likely to change moving forward. If I could stay in this situation - same employers, same set-up - I could see myself never really wanting to retire.
Heh, I have to agree with this... This working from home thing is pretty good... I could definitely stay another 5 years longer than I planned if this becomes a thing.
A Goldman Sachs associate provided a variety of detailed explanations, but then offered a caveat, “If I’m being dead-### honest, though, nobody knows what’s really going on.”
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HomerJ
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Re: Anyone planning on never retiring?

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DonIce wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:59 pm
nigel_ht wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:56 pm Do whichever makes you happy but I never wanted to be THAT guy...the retired guy taking classes for credit and breaking the curve because he could and did spend all day on whatever it was. The guy sitting up front asking "deep" questions and derailing the lecture for everyone else who just wanted to graduate and start their own career.
Don't think I ever saw such a person in all my years of undergrad and grad school. I'm pretty convinced retirees taking college classes is a fantasy some people have in their minds until they actually retire, but when they finally do retire, actually following through is essentially unheard of.
When I was in college, there was an old guy who came to the local drinking hole every Friday afternoon.

He was a retired guy taking classes every semester... Every Friday, he'd drink a few beers and watch the young ladies.

I talked to him a few times, and he was my hero. :)

My son is going into computer programming... After going to college recruitment sessions, and listening to the lesson plans with him, I SO want to take those courses myself... :)
A Goldman Sachs associate provided a variety of detailed explanations, but then offered a caveat, “If I’m being dead-### honest, though, nobody knows what’s really going on.”
DonIce
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Re: Anyone planning on never retiring?

Post by DonIce »

HomerJ wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:11 am
DonIce wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:20 am Bogleheads are very very focused on retirement.

Personally, as long as I can still work in my field, I would choose to do so. Given that the work is mostly intellectual, I would hope that would be until I'm age 110 or so. I'm highly optimistic that most diseases that affect the functioning of the brain (like Alzheimer's) will be preventable/curable/treatable by then. Find what your passion is and do that, then it doesn't feel like work.

I aimed my whole life to be doing what I am doing now; it's what I always wanted to do. Why would I want to stop just because my bank account gets big enough?

As I discussed in one of the recent FIRE threads, I fundamentally don't understand people that go into careers they hate and then count the days til retirement so they can have a few good years after a life of misery, rather than just doing what they love from the beginning, even if it pays less. Philosophical difference I guess.
Is every hour of your work-life enjoyable? What is your job? Are there really no moments that you wish you were doing something different?

Serious question. What exactly do you do for a living?
I'd be hard pressed to describe what I do without it being too easy to identify my employer. Let's just say I work on applied science projects in a field that in my opinion will be deeply impactful. Of course I don't enjoy every hour. Sometimes I have to do things that are not that fun. After the initial interesting problem is solved, there is often a lot of grunt work to do to actually finish something.

But my hobbies (mountain climbing and related outdoor activities) are the same way. Do I enjoy every individual step? No, sometimes you get really tired, sometimes things hurt, sometimes you'd rather be at home on the couch. But the overall experience is deeply rewarding and meaningful.

Perhaps it's just my personality to value the overall context more than the minute-by-minute experience and that is why my opinion differs so strongly from many others on this point?
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HomerJ
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Re: Anyone planning on never retiring?

Post by HomerJ »

DonIce wrote: Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:34 amPerhaps it's just my personality to value the overall context more than the minute-by-minute experience and that is why my opinion differs so strongly from many others on this point?
Maybe. :)

I love solving problems at work. I hate politics, and I hate limitations. I'm thinking my hobbies don't have the same restrictions.
A Goldman Sachs associate provided a variety of detailed explanations, but then offered a caveat, “If I’m being dead-### honest, though, nobody knows what’s really going on.”
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Re: Anyone planning on never retiring?

Post by AerialWombat »

willthrill81 wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:40 pm I would imagine that the confidence that FI provides to those with an entrepreneurial mindset could be extremely beneficial, enabling the person to truly focus on making the endeavor succeed and not worry about paying their bills.
+1

Knowing I can survive on $500/mo after being forced to do so in ‘08 gave me the same confidence. While not truly FI, having multiple income streams and plenty of savings now makes it possible to look for business opportunities in the current economic situation, rather than diving for cover.
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Re: Anyone planning on never retiring?

Post by TheNightsToCome »

hidradenitis wrote: Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:32 pm
Offshore wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:19 am Any Boglehead physicians out there who feel as the OP does, meaning never want to retire?
I enjoy my work but learned long ago that the benefits of a career in medicine diminish sharply with longer hours.
Agree. If there is no call, and if patients are scheduled with adequate time between appointments, it's a great career. Unfortunately, many physicians can't arrange that.
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