How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

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KlangFool
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How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by KlangFool » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:05 pm

Folks,

In my own personal experience, as I am getting wealthier, I am less willing to compromise my work life balance for a job. Did this happen to you? If yes, how does this affect you in term of the job that you are willing to accept?

A) Pay -> minimum pay that you are willing to accept.

B) Commute time

C) Work hours -> 40 only ->no overtime.

D) Stress level

E) Job content -> Only stuff that you like to.

KlangFool

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Ged
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by Ged » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:20 pm

Yes. Mostly what it meant is that as got nearer to retirement my work day got shorter. Pay I didn't care that much about. What I didn't like was the stress the company owner was trying to apply.

I did like my immediate boss, and his boss was ok. The end was when they left to go to a new employer.

I didn't want a new job with them (longer commute), so that is when I retired.
Last edited by Ged on Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

badger42
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by badger42 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:24 pm

True FI means doing the jobs that are fun and interesting to you, and being comfortable quitting when they're no longer fun.

I do find that, at about halfway to our 'number', I'm definitely more willing to take risks (e.g. switching teams) in pursuit of work that I find more interesting / engaging / rewarding. I'm also much less interested in switching jobs unless the new job provides both better work / work environment (current job is hard to beat there) and better pay (current job is also fairly hard to beat there).

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KSOC
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by KSOC » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:35 pm

Yes to B & C. Gotta be close to home & no way am I working a 40 anymore.
Too soon old, too late smart.

nguy44
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by nguy44 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:10 pm

Three times I was offered a promotion within my company that would have increased my base pay by 15% and increase my eligibility for bonuses.

However, it would require both a relocation and 100% travel, some of it "spur of the moment". In addition, usually when traveling one tends to work a lot more than a 40 hour week. While the salary increase would have been a nice additional bump, we were already doing well income wise and still saving around 30% of my salary. 100% travel, for me, wasn't worth it (I had an earlier job that had close to 50% travel for a few years and that became stressful on the family).

Personally I reached a point where time, particularly time with family, became more important than increasing my income. After the third time I was asked, I was "warned" that turning it down again would effectively put me at the "ceiling" for further advancement at the company.... and I was (and am) fine with that.

Nectarineman
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by Nectarineman » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:16 pm

I find this thread fascinating because I am now in a good paying job but am looking for something more satisfying.

10 years ago I would never have considered leaving. As the the poster stating he hit his ceiling because he refused to move etc, it is refreshing to hear as that was my experience too.

KlangFool
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by KlangFool » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:29 pm

Nectarineman wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:16 pm
I find this thread fascinating because I am now in a good paying job but am looking for something more satisfying.

10 years ago I would never have considered leaving. As the the poster stating he hit his ceiling because he refused to move etc, it is refreshing to hear as that was my experience too.
Nectarineman,

Once, I took a 20% to 30% pay cut to move into a new because it is more interesting and less stressful. I can do that because

A) I do not need the money.

B) The change and impact to my possible FI date are insignificant.

KlangFool

KlangFool
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by KlangFool » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:33 pm

Folks,

There is a group of successful and wealthy people. They are not willing to sacrifice their work life balance for a job. And, they tend to be older. Those employers that choose to discriminate based on age are missing out on this group of people.

KlangFool

student
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by student » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:36 pm

Although this does not fit the scenario that you have described exactly, I think it is sufficiently closed. Many faculty members in my department do not accept optional teaching in the summer when they are near or at financial independence. (My university offers a 403b and a 457 but no pension.)

GoldenFinch
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by GoldenFinch » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:48 pm

Not needing to work for money, but instead for mental stimulation and or the social benefits of work, can lead to being very particular. Your evaluation of every aspect of the job revolves around how it will affect your non-monetary quality of life, so you may get extra choosy. Being choosy may make it harder to find a job. Definitely not a bad situation to be in though.

6bquick
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by 6bquick » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:50 pm

Just last month I started a new job. new job is 50% farther away, time wise. im now making 80% of what i was in old job, hours are roughly the same at 40/wk but the hours of the day would be considered worse by some/many (working overnights at new job vs. variable 1st/2nd shifts at old.) The stress/B.S. level is WAY down however, and the mental stimulation/job satisfaction is exponentially higher. Time will tell whether or not this was a decent switch, but after working for 3 years in a job i hated and being subordinate to morons, I can honestly say there's more to life (and specifically work) than money. One doesn't have to love one's job to have a long and fruitful career, but one certainly can't hate it.

Lacrab
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by Lacrab » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:00 pm

This is SO on the money for me, I hit a few financial milestones, paid off the house, and suddenly the job I generally enjoy seems like a tight fitting pair of pants when I am pushing a ten hour day. I think it is a seasons of life thing, personally I would rather spend time with kids and my wife while we are young and can enjoy it. DW and I talked it out and we put a ton of roadblocks to any job I apply for, gotta be close, no weekends, no OT.

The pay? We'll see, I am prepared for the drop in pay, and if I have to postpone future goals that loom closer at a higher wage, so be it. [OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek]
This space has been intentionally left blank, but required writing to notify you, so...yeah

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Taylor Larimore
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Retire later with more money--or retire early with less money ?

Post by Taylor Larimore » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:08 pm

KlangFool:

Many workers must make the decision: Work longer and accumulate more money OR retire early with less money?

In my case, I retired early (age 57) with a smaller pension. I didn't like my job so I quit. Looking back, it was the right decision.

Best wishes.
Taylor
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle

chuppi
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by chuppi » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:15 pm

I am in the consulting/services line of work. I am in my current job for 11 years now. This is a 17 year old company. With my current job, I absolutely don't have any stress. I work from home a lot and there is lot of flexibility. Our customers are small to mid-size and I don't have to travel other than to the local companies. There is a good chance that I will be paid more elsewhere. Likely I have to travel a lot.

I see my friends growing up the corporate ladder. I am sure they are earning more than me and likely the difference will keep growing.
I have made a decision to stay in this company. I get to spend a lot of time with my kids. I have a clear path to retirement in about 14 years when my kids graduate from high school. I love my job and so will keep doing what I do.
If I continue with my line of work, I should be able to do partime work later if I have to.

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sdsailing
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by sdsailing » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:36 pm

Indeed. My unwillingness involved walking away and not looking back. :D

LarryAllen
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by LarryAllen » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:40 pm

Yes, totally changed over the years as my wealth has increased.

I turn away all low paying projects and high maintenance people. Life is too short.

I work non-rush hours so my commute is minimal. No more going home at 5:30/6:00. 4:00 at the latest now! Try to leave at 2 or 3 now.

No appointments on Friday so work is optional that day.

No going to the office on weekends.

Go to the gym a few afternoons a week. Double work out days!

Keeping it under 40 hours a week at work because making more money won't help me. Less stress and more time with family is priceless!

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HomerJ
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by HomerJ » Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:12 pm

My wife quit her high stress, high paying job a few months after we paid off the house.

She "retired", but a year later, a part-time job fell into her lap. She makes 50% of what she used to, but works 1/4 of the hours.

fishandgolf
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Re: Retire later with more money--or retire early with less money ?

Post by fishandgolf » Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:53 pm

Taylor Larimore wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:08 pm
KlangFool:

Many workers must make the decision: Work longer and accumulate more money OR retire early with less money?

In my case, I retired early (age 57) with a smaller pension. I didn't like my job so I quit. Looking back, it was the right decision.

Best wishes.
Taylor
+1 Retired at age 56. No debt....everything paid for, DW has good job with great insurance. Of course, with DW working, I became the chief cook and bottle washer. Great life....... :sharebeer

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RetiredMule
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by RetiredMule » Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:57 pm

Hi KlangFool,

I've read many of your posts and appreciated your commonsense and wise responses to a lot of other posters' questions.

I retired early (at 57) 3 years ago, primarily due to C and D, in that order - though I was making really great money as a senior engineer ("Platform Architect") in a Computer Systems job in a top chip company in Silicon Valley/CA. No pension, just taxable savings and 401K+ a modest IRA.

C: work hours: As a senior guy, I had to be in meetings with teams in Israel (late nights and/or very early morning PST); as well as with teams in India - again crazy hours. After all this, I was expected to be working/available for meetings in regular 8AM-6PM or even early morning/late evening meetings here in the US. The hours were getting crazy for me.

D: Stress level: too many changes in management (especially in the 2-3 years before I quit/retired), causing resets every time a new GM and boss took charge, along with changes in other key players I had to work with. It was getting difficult to put up a cheering face and explain to the new dudes the technologies we were working on all over again-n-again, not to mention the difficulty of personal chemistry to be built up every time there was a change.

I know it was my "wealth level" (modest at best, but, I've done my math and hope I can hang in there) and my life style (always lived below my means and saved) that led me to say enough is enough. Otherwise, I'd have had no other choice but continue...

Rainmaker41
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by Rainmaker41 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:06 am

This 1969 advertisement from a bank is applicable in my view:

'The Pleasure of Walking Tall

Your savings, believe it or not, affect the way you stand, the way you walk, the tone of your voice. In short, your physical well-being and self-confidence. A man without savings is always running. He must. He must take the first job offered, or nearly so. He sits nervously on life’s chairs because any small emergency throws him into the hands of others.
Without savings, a man must be too grateful. Gratitude is a fine thing in its place. But a constant state of gratitude is a horrible place in which to live. A man with savings can walk tall. He may appraise opportunities in a relaxed way, have time for judicious estimates and not be rushed by economic necessity.

A man with savings can afford to resign from his job if his principles so dictate. And for this reason he’ll never need to do so. A man who can afford to quit is much more useful to his company, and therefore more readily promoted. He can afford to give his company the benefit of his most candid judgments.

A man always concerned about necessities, such as food and rent, can't afford to think in long-range career terms. He must dart to the most immediate opportunity for ready cash. Without savings, he will spend a life-time darting, dodging.

A man with savings can afford the wonderful privilege of being generous in family or neighborhood emergencies. He can take the level stare of any man ... friend, stranger or enemy. That ability shapes his personality and character.
The ability to save has nothing to do with the size of income. Many high-income people spend it all. They are on a treadmill, darting through life like minnows.

The dean of American bankers, J.P. Morgan, once advised a young broker: "Take waste out of your spending; you’ll drive the haste out of your life."

Will Rogers put it this way, "I'd rather have the company of a janitor, living on what he earned last year... than an actor spending what he'll earn next year."

If you don’t need money for college, a home or retirement, then save for self-confidence. The state of your savings does have a lot to do with how tall you walk.'

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid= ... 2795&hl=en
My username is not about money, but is my old online gaming username. I can't say that I make a great deal of money; I just hate spending it. Marrying the most loving woman in the world October 2017.

vested1
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by vested1 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:37 am

I never compromised because I was always a top performer, but I never felt truly liberated until the final few years of employment, mainly due to retirement savings which were more than sufficient.

I was pursued for my final job and made clear to the three separate directors who interviewed me that my starting salary was required to be above the mean, and that I didn't need the job; something not normally voiced in a job interview. I knew what the average pay was for the title, and set my number 15% above that. They understood that they needed me, and so did I, being familiar with their weaknesses. They knew from industry scuttlebutt that I was a possible short timer, and I told them my projected tenure at their company when asked, but that I would leave earlier if their promises weren't kept.

They hired me on the spot, despite my salary demands and other statements I made concerning my views on work/life balance. True to my word, I quit after several months when I discovered their promises were hollow. They were astonished that I would actually quit considering what they were paying me. They were used to making false claims, but unused to someone who would hold them to it.

If you are willing and able to walk away it increases your options tremendously.

bluebolt
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by bluebolt » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:48 am

KlangFool wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:29 pm
Nectarineman wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:16 pm
I find this thread fascinating because I am now in a good paying job but am looking for something more satisfying.

10 years ago I would never have considered leaving. As the the poster stating he hit his ceiling because he refused to move etc, it is refreshing to hear as that was my experience too.
Nectarineman,

Once, I took a 20% to 30% pay cut to move into a new because it is more interesting and less stressful. I can do that because

A) I do not need the money.

B) The change and impact to my possible FI date are insignificant.

KlangFool
For us B applies, but not yet A.
About 5 years ago, the average expected return on our portfolio exceeded our annual contributions by about 3-to-1 and it will soon be 4-to-1.
If we stop contributing any more, it will only delay FI by a couple of years.

This gives us a lot of flexibility since now we have the option to have one of us stop working or for either or both of us to take a salary cut to pursue something we like more.

staythecourse
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by staythecourse » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:49 am

Absolutely. In fact, I would say the BIGGEST reason to be wealthy is NOT to finish the game as quickly as possible, but to have the option of choosing what, where, when, and how you choose to work for as long as you want.

When we started picking up the wealth it gave me the option of pursuing working for myself. Doing that has given me ULTIMATE control and flexibility. I literally can work forever as much or as little as I want going forward. Great since we have 2 little ones at home and want to spend more time with them as they grow up.

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle

hightower
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by hightower » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:53 am

Absolutely agree. If I were financially independent or even close to it, I would be looking for a job that I enjoy a lot as the first and foremost requirement. Pay wouldn't matter. Work/Life balance would matter, but not as much as making sure I really enjoy the work.

RadAudit
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by RadAudit » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:01 am

I am quite pleased to read of the much deserved job opportunities / search of the near FI and near retirement crowd. (Congrats, again. Much deserved!!)

On the other end of the job search / life curve is an anecdotal incident. DS is now looking for a job. He's been looking for the job for at least three or four months while he has been working with his current company. (His company is shutting down this summer.) He has about six months expenses in an emergency fund and another $100K in a 403(b). Because of this cushion, he believes he has time to look for the right job. While I applaud the idea of stepping up in to a lifeboat from a sinking ship, I am from the old (discredited?) school of thought that says (1) sometimes you have to take a job you may not like to eventually get to where you want to go and (2) you aren't married to the job you have so you can leave.

May be there's something to the idea of too much of a cushion is not such a good thing at too young of an age.
"Everything will be all right in the end. If everything is not all right, then it is not the end." - The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel

KlangFool
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by KlangFool » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:25 am

RetiredMule wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:57 pm
Hi KlangFool,

I've read many of your posts and appreciated your commonsense and wise responses to a lot of other posters' questions.

I retired early (at 57) 3 years ago, primarily due to C and D, in that order - though I was making really great money as a senior engineer ("Platform Architect") in a Computer Systems job in a top chip company in Silicon Valley/CA. No pension, just taxable savings and 401K+ a modest IRA.

C: work hours: As a senior guy, I had to be in meetings with teams in Israel (late nights and/or very early morning PST); as well as with teams in India - again crazy hours. After all this, I was expected to be working/available for meetings in regular 8AM-6PM or even early morning/late evening meetings here in the US. The hours were getting crazy for me.

D: Stress level: too many changes in management (especially in the 2-3 years before I quit/retired), causing resets every time a new GM and boss took charge, along with changes in other key players I had to work with. It was getting difficult to put up a cheering face and explain to the new dudes the technologies we were working on all over again-n-again, not to mention the difficulty of personal chemistry to be built up every time there was a change.

I know it was my "wealth level" (modest at best, but, I've done my math and hope I can hang in there) and my life style (always lived below my means and saved) that led me to say enough is enough. Otherwise, I'd have had no other choice but continue...
RetiredMule,

I believe that work hours expectation is specific to the Bay and Seattle area. I had worked in other parts of the USA. I received comp time for my hours beyond the 40 hours. So, if I had a meeting the night before, I would not work for the following day.

<<though I was making really great money as a senior engineer >>

Not really as the number of hours that you worked. In another part of the country, the senior engineers are paid 120K to 150K per year for 40 hours per week of work.

KlangFool

likegarden
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by likegarden » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:15 pm

This sounds similar to retiring early from a stressful job, then finding a part-time stress-free job at much less pay. I did that retiring at 62, then half a year later starting in a similar job at half-time and half the previous pay, enjoyed the second job.

rgs92
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by rgs92 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:22 pm

As a side note, just like Bogleheads here seem to have a lot more savings than the average person, have they also had an easier time finding jobs or keeping them and avoiding unemployment?

I know so many people (all college+ educated professionals) who are unemployed or having serious job security problems.
(I know a lot of IT people, lots of them from the telcom world, but in other areas also.)

[Sorry for borrowing your thread KlangFool; I always enjoy your contributions here.]

KlangFool
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by KlangFool » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:30 pm

rgs92 wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:22 pm
As a side note, just like Bogleheads here seem to have a lot more savings than the average person, have they also had an easier time finding jobs or keeping them and avoiding unemployment?

I know so many people (all college+ educated professionals) who are unemployed or having serious job security problems.
(I know a lot of IT people, lots of them from the telcom world, but in other areas also.)

[Sorry for borrowing your thread KlangFool; I always enjoy your contributions here.]
rgs92,

My own personal answer would be no. I had been unemployed for more than 1 year a few times. But, being Boglehead make it financially easier to handle that kind of situation.

There are 2 sides of this.

A) It is just hard to find a suitable employment in general.

B) I am not willing to settle for less since I do not have to.

KlangFool

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RetiredMule
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by RetiredMule » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:40 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:25 am
RetiredMule wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:57 pm
Hi KlangFool,

I've read many of your posts and appreciated your commonsense and wise responses to a lot of other posters' questions.

I retired early (at 57) 3 years ago, primarily due to C and D, in that order - though I was making really great money as a senior engineer ("Platform Architect") in a Computer Systems job in a top chip company in Silicon Valley/CA. No pension, just taxable savings and 401K+ a modest IRA.

C: work hours: As a senior guy, I had to be in meetings with teams in Israel (late nights and/or very early morning PST); as well as with teams in India - again crazy hours. After all this, I was expected to be working/available for meetings in regular 8AM-6PM or even early morning/late evening meetings here in the US. The hours were getting crazy for me.

D: Stress level: too many changes in management (especially in the 2-3 years before I quit/retired), causing resets every time a new GM and boss took charge, along with changes in other key players I had to work with. It was getting difficult to put up a cheering face and explain to the new dudes the technologies we were working on all over again-n-again, not to mention the difficulty of personal chemistry to be built up every time there was a change.

I know it was my "wealth level" (modest at best, but, I've done my math and hope I can hang in there) and my life style (always lived below my means and saved) that led me to say enough is enough. Otherwise, I'd have had no other choice but continue...
RetiredMule,

I believe that work hours expectation is specific to the Bay and Seattle area. I had worked in other parts of the USA. I received comp time for my hours beyond the 40 hours. So, if I had a meeting the night before, I would not work for the following day.

<<though I was making really great money as a senior engineer >>

Not really as the number of hours that you worked. In another part of the country, the senior engineers are paid 120K to 150K per year for 40 hours per week of work.

KlangFool
Hi KlangFool,

Just a quick correction/update:

I didn't state what I was making - it was around 300K with a great base pay of over 160K, a fairly large bonus tied to my base pay and a small amount (20K-30K) in RSUs....so, money wasn't bad at all - it was great(for me), as I stated earlier.

There was no set policy on compensation for the hours worked extra - you had to do the extra hours too be part of critical meetings/discussions if you wanted to stay in the game or else, you'd be dropping to the bottom of the annual "performance ranking w/ peers" pile, which I didn't want to, as there was a chance of getting pushed out unceremoniously, and as an A-type guy, I was always at the top for most of my career. Most of my peers were at least a decade younger than me.

It was definitely the factors I mentioned (hours, stress level) along with the fact that I could walk away due to the wealth factor, that I retired; also, I didn't want to take a chance with another company - I had been at this company for 24 years ever since my grad school and loved many aspects of its culture, and wasn't sure how I'd fit in with a different company, a different 'culture" possibly and a new set of people. To top it all, I have had health issues that have been cropping up primarily due to the age group many of us are in - being 50+ - and that added to the stress levels. All of these figured in my decision making.

RetiredMule

rgs92
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by rgs92 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:46 pm

Thanks for sharing your experiences Klang Fool. Best to you.
[I can relate to this.]

delamer
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by delamer » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:55 pm

There have been proposals at various times (including recently) to allow Medicare buy-ins at age 55 for so.

This would have a similar effect to personal wealth, in terms of providing an attractive option to early retirees.

I retired earlyish with a pension and inexpensive health insurance. We have savings that could have been a workaround for no pension, but I would have been very hesitant without the insurance.

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RetiredMule
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by RetiredMule » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:57 pm

Once you have the wealth/FI, a couple more things to consider: one's hobbies/pastimes.

In my case:

1) I really LOVE to travel, and wanted to travel to a lot of different places/countries before my health/fitness goes down - a HUGE factor in deciding to retire, esp. since one can't be sure about health conditions in a decade or later in one's life. So, like many in the "retired camp", I have set aside some travel budget.

2) I read a LOT too, on many topics. Another factor in looking at the bucket list vs. continuing to work-till-I-drop.

Thankfully, I've been able to do both of the above, though #1 is a bit affected by a very dependent pet (yorkie) that behaves like a human being and doesn't like his peers/other dogs :wink:

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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by ChowYunPhat » Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:10 pm

staythecourse wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:49 am
Absolutely. In fact, I would say the BIGGEST reason to be wealthy is NOT to finish the game as quickly as possible, but to have the option of choosing what, where, when, and how you choose to work for as long as you want.
Good luck.
Staythecourse hit upon the heart of this question. I work for mega-company, and will likely always work for some flavor of mega-company. My last job change required relocation and developing a new network. But having at least some personal wealth provided my family confidence to make the recent change. Five years ago we would not have made such a move.

I'm looking forward to FI day (or something close to this) and test if we want to try something new again. In the meantime, there's a lot to be said for balancing your career growth and satisfaction with non-work related interests. Wishing everyone here finds this, as it seems to be more difficult every year.

All the best.
A wise man and his money are friends forever...

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Earl Lemongrab
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:58 pm

I'm also one where the investment success and looming retirement led to attitude changes at the current job. I have made it clear that I'll only travel in extreme emergency. I knocked my hours down by one day. I don't work overtime or extra time.

You worry less when you just don't care. Now, it doesn't hurt that I'm good at what I do. Also, as I'm not concerned about career development and upward mobility, I'm happy to ride it out finishing up on this project. So they have an experienced software person to handle things when almost everyone else left for greener pastures, which pleases my project manager and supervisor.
This week's fortune cookie: "The stock market may be your ticket to success." I sure hope so!

DVMResident
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by DVMResident » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:21 pm

Nectarineman wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:16 pm
10 years ago I would never have considered leaving.
The employment market was very different 10 years ago. If someone left a job, it would be difficult to get another job on top of 401(k) values down a significant amount.

I think the answer to these questions are one part individual circumstances and one part outlook of the environment.

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ClevrChico
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by ClevrChico » Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:48 pm

This forum and the wiki have been key for financial security and realizing when enough is truly enough. It's also made working life tremendously better since I no longer chase every dollar. I even take an extra week unpaid each year for an even better work life balance.

A position was posted last week for a job I felt pretty qualified for. It would increase the current job grade by one. My wife told me I would hate life, and she is exactly right. I calculated I might net an extra $500/month. The cost would be difficult bosses, travel, and transitioning into more soft skills vs. tech skills. I'm staying right where I'm at and taking a long weekend at the lake next week with the family.

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Top99%
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by Top99% » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:49 am

When I last changed jobs (2005) I certainly wasn't FI but I had enough of a nest egg that I knew I could be selective about where I worked. I think this instilled me with a lot more confidence when I interviewed. Recently when I became semi FI I went part time and my financial situation gave me the confidence to approach this from a position strength. Basically I went to my boss and stated "I can either retire or go part time". So, in summary, I think having a sizable nest egg allows one to approach any work situation from a position of strength.
Adapt or perish

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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by remomnyc » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:19 am

I would add F) Enjoy the people with whom you work (with whom, if you work full time, you spend more waking hours than your family and friends). Although my job meets A through D in spades, the failure of E) and F) are driving me toward early retirement. I will probably work again, but only doing something meaningful with people whose company I enjoy. Having enough money will allow me to be ultra picky since I no longer need the paycheck.

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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by Snowjob » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:14 am

KlangFool wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:05 pm
Folks,

In my own personal experience, as I am getting wealthier, I am less willing to compromise my work life balance for a job. Did this happen to you? If yes, how does this affect you in term of the job that you are willing to accept?

A) Pay -> minimum pay that you are willing to accept.

B) Commute time

C) Work hours -> 40 only ->no overtime.

D) Stress level

E) Job content -> Only stuff that you like to.

KlangFool
klang -- Despite being younger than you I see this happening to myself -- this is largely due to the fact that I have not had the expenses associated with starting a family I suppose but nevertheless at 35 I am see the same thing. I am confident that my portfolio could generate about 40% of my salary today in perpetuity. While this still means Im far from a comfortable retirement, I will not prioritize earning the extra dollar. life is short, I try to enjoy it as much as possible.

A.) I have turned down a higher position (more hours - in theory, pay - absolutely, responsiblity & stress - yep etc)

B.) My job allows for a significant amount of flexibilty as it stands now but if that were to change I would have to consider this point seriously

C.) There is a cyclicality to my work and the extra required hours (no OT, I'm salaried) are not a huge issue as its something I can predict and plan around

D.) Not looking for more!!

E.) There isn't enough room on my plate for more, but Im OK with the areas I spend my time today.

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Jazztonight
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by Jazztonight » Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:21 pm

Thanks to the OP for a really nice thread that seems to speak to so many of us Bogleheads.

I'd like to add the well-known concept that you don't need a LOT, you just need ENOUGH. Sorry if this is a little off the topic.

I never had a very high income, but I liked my work and was able to deal with the imbeciles above me who called themselves "managers."

But at a certain point my mortgage was paid off and my kids were out of college, and now it was MY time. I was able to semi-retire and pursue other interests until SS kicked in at 66 and I retired completely from my job. My ability to do this was based more on my faith in myself and my preparation and vision for the future than in a big number in my portfolio.

I have good friends who have 3-5 times as much invested as I do, but who don't have the capability of cutting the cord. In fact, one recently was forced to retire after a triple bypass; his plan had been to work for 2-3 more years. He and so many others I know have given little or no thought to life after work. Now he's struggling to find out what he wants to do with the rest of his life.
"What does not destroy me, makes me stronger." Nietzsche

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DaftInvestor
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by DaftInvestor » Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:42 pm

A, B and E are the gauges I use.
I can't necessarily get C and D if what I really want are A and E - A and E are more important to me (A lot of great jobs come with stress and require you to put in extra hours from time to time).

pasadena
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by pasadena » Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:16 pm

Interesting thread. You speak of wealth, but I wonder if age isn't also a big factor. Both are usually correlated, so it might be hard to separate the two.

I'm not wealthy, and nowhere near FI (late starter in the saving money game) but as I grow older, and get more experience, I see the same shift in my priorities as most of you describe in this thread. Quality of life becomes a much more important factor for me, and I find myself much less willing to compromise on it. I still work crazy hours from times to times, but it's my own choice, I actually enjoy it, and I know it's always temporary.

But I'm not willing to work and sacrifice as much as I did when I was 25. Part of it is indeed that I feel secure by having ~ a year of expenses saved up, and part of it is that I'm much more confident than I used to be (in myself, and in my job). I also know exactly what I want, what I don't want, and I learned how to say no.

A consequence of that is that I will soon refuse a relocation to a city I absolutely don't want to live in - despite the fact that it would strongly increase my disposable income. I would have accepted 15 years ago, but today, I'm ready to leave and get on with my life, if they don't accept my counter-offer. And work/life balance will be a top criteria if I have to hunt for a new job. Commute, location and trust are paramount, and I won't compromise on that. Work hours I don't mind much as long as it's reasonable and if I get good compensation for them (not necessarily money) - weird hours are part of the job.

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gunn_show
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by gunn_show » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:00 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:05 pm
In my own personal experience, as I am getting wealthier, I am less willing to compromise my work life balance for a job. Did this happen to you? If yes, how does this affect you in term of the job that you are willing to accept?
Yup. Very high floor of minimum pay. Zero commute, work from home. Productivity is high so 40 hrs is max. Low-moderate stress despite being in enterprise tech sales. Very content with job and very picky going forward.
vested1 wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:37 am
If you are willing and able to walk away it increases your options tremendously.
Excellent statement and I completely agree, and follow this method/thinking myself
RadAudit wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:01 am
school of thought that says (1) sometimes you have to take a job you may not like to eventually get to where you want to go and (2) you aren't married to the job you have so you can leave.
Another excellent nugget that I also follow, and through some good/bad jobs, I arrived at my current top tier company role. Stepping stones are important for various reasons (title jump, pay jump, industry jump, etc.). My last job sucked, for example, but it got me to the "next total comp tier" from where I was, so it helped in my career trajectory.
badger42 wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:24 pm

I do find that, at about halfway to our 'number', I'm definitely more willing to take risks (e.g. switching teams) in pursuit of work that I find more interesting / engaging / rewarding. I'm also much less interested in switching jobs unless the new job provides both better work / work environment (current job is hard to beat there) and better pay (current job is also fairly hard to beat there).
Another good nugget that ties into the first 2 quotes I saved above. I too am about halfway there, and haven taken more risks in the past couple years, because I can afford to and have the experience / results leverage to do so. I'm in a very similar boat to badger42 (my dad is also from wisconsin.. heh)
RetiredMule wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:40 pm
senior engineer ("Platform Architect") in a Computer Systems job in a top chip company in Silicon Valley/CA. .. as a senior guy, I had to be in meetings with teams in Israel (late nights and/or very early morning PST ...
pretty sure we work(ed) for the same company ;)
staythecourse wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:49 am
Absolutely. In fact, I would say the BIGGEST reason to be wealthy is NOT to finish the game as quickly as possible, but to have the option of choosing what, where, when, and how you choose to work for as long as you want.

Great since we have 2 little ones at home and want to spend more time with them as they grow up.
Love this one too. I am in no rush to finish the game, I enjoy what I do, get paid very well, work from home, and will do it as long as I can under these terms. Also because, like staythecourse, I have a little one on the way so I still have a long ramp of "future costs" to plan for ;-)
"I love competition. And I want to win." R. Murdoch

surfstar
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by surfstar » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:13 pm

If I was personally wealthy, I would not be job hunting. :oops:

KlangFool
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by KlangFool » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:19 pm

surfstar wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:13 pm
If I was personally wealthy, I would not be job hunting. :oops:
surfstar,

Let's say that your number is 2 million, your job hunting will not change if your net worth is $1 less than 2 million? How about 100K less? Most of us work in a gray scale.

KlangFool

investor997
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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by investor997 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:49 pm

This is an interesting thread.

I think we all reach a point in life where our salaries eventually have a smaller day-to-day impact on the growth of our net worth as compared to what we earn from our investment portfolios. I'm not certain where that exact point is, but for me, I think I'm getting close. For example, if I were to receive a 3% pay increase each year for the next 15 years - which doesn't seem likely given my current age of 43 - the overall impact to my net worth by age 58 is not much different than it would be if I simply increased my expected annual return upward from 6% to 7% and kept my salary flat.

Am I looking at this correctly?

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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by BHUser27 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:44 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:05 pm
...as I am getting wealthier, I am less willing to compromise my work life balance for a job. Did this happen to you? If yes, how does this affect you in term of the job that you are willing to accept?
A) Pay -> minimum pay that you are willing to accept.
B) Commute time
C) Work hours -> 40 only ->no overtime.
D) Stress level
E) Job content -> Only stuff that you like to.
53, married. DW is retired. No debt. 'Number' is $1.25MM @ 62yrs. NW today is $1.104MM
Interesting discussion. I think we need to understand personal situations for context.

*Just* negotiated a 1 yr exit contract with my 26yr employer. I will work 16 flex-hours per week in a 'salaried consultant' role with full health/holiday/401k benefits. Pay will be 2/5 of current salary. Will be enough to pay bills, but will reduce savings (was running well over 50% savings rate).

When the year is up I would like a new job...

A) Pay only needs to cover expenses + a tiny bit of fun money
B) Commute time is inconsequential where I live, anywhere in the city or surrounding area is fine
C) Less than 40 hrs desired, no more than 40 is a must.
D) High satisfaction is a must, low stress is desired. (I thrive on challenge)
E) I am looking to do something completely new - totally outside of my current industry - has to be FUN!

Benefits are important. Would like awesome health benefits, good retirement plan options and decent PTO from day 1.

(I am grateful to have a year to figure this out)

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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by pennywise » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:39 am

It's heartening to know my adult developmental stage isn't unique :D . Was just discussing with a colleague last night that at this point, I simply am not willing to do tasks and duties I took on with gusto 2-5-10 years ago. I still enjoy the core of my work, however I sometimes feel like that country song 'I aint as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was.' I can-and do-turn on the energy and skills to get things done. I can't-and don't-stress myself to do things because others don't do their jobs, or because the boss would be pleased or worst of all because I think the company really will benefit even if no one asked me to do X, Y or Z.

Then too, I'm watching colleagues who have the boss's ear and they are always stressed and angry and complaining about overwork and being tasked with more and more. It's somewhat of a humblebrag and I remember the days when I was right there too. It felt exhilarating to be in the inner circle and it was rewarding to feel I had the leader's trust.

But as I approach my 60th birthday in a couple of weeks, I"m finding that more and more what I truly want most is control of my time and more and more I chafe at giving that time to someone else for a company's priorities, not mine.

I am thinking another year and then time to hang it up. I'm also thinking I should start organizing to pass on what I can to others, and leave with a clean desk and clean slate. That will feel good but not as good as the first morning I wake up and realize the day is mine, and so is the next day and the next. At this stage of my life there really isn't anything at the office that looks to be as rewarding!

As it relates to this topic I am grateful every single day that I have the financial capability to walk away tomorrow if I want. I think of how many people, especially women, are facing retirement years with deep financial uncertainty and the knowledge that they don't have that choice.

Money is a tool and if there's anything to be taught to the next generation it is to use your tool wisely by saving and investing early and steadily so it will build you the life of your dreams someday.

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Re: How does personal wealth affect job hunting?

Post by KlangFool » Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:08 am

investor997 wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:49 pm
This is an interesting thread.

I think we all reach a point in life where our salaries eventually have a smaller day-to-day impact on the growth of our net worth as compared to what we earn from our investment portfolios. I'm not certain where that exact point is, but for me, I think I'm getting close. For example, if I were to receive a 3% pay increase each year for the next 15 years - which doesn't seem likely given my current age of 43 - the overall impact to my net worth by age 58 is not much different than it would be if I simply increased my expected annual return upward from 6% to 7% and kept my salary flat.

Am I looking at this correctly?
investor997,

IMHO, basing your retirement on income replacement is flatly wrong. The correct way is to look at the investment portfolio as a multiple of your current expense and/or retirement expense.

<<For example, if I were to receive a 3% pay increase each year for the next 15 years - which doesn't seem likely given my current age of 43 - the overall impact to my net worth by age 58 is not much different than it would be if I simply increased my expected annual return upward from 6% to 7% and kept my salary flat.>>

All those are future money. When I was 43, I do not know whether I will be fully employed over the next year. Much less over the next 15 years. It is still the same at this moment. I do not know whether I will be fully employed next year.

I know my investment portfolio is X times my current annual expense. That keeps me SWAN.

KlangFool

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