How much money do you want to retire?

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
student
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Re: How much money do you need to retire?

Post by student »

Turkishcoffee wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:49 am
Iliketoridemybike wrote: Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:14 am Firecalc says I need $2.7 million. I have more than that now. 54 targeting retirement at 58.
I think these posts would be far more instructive if people clarified if their number is meant for one or two persons.

Anyone else think this would help?
Most definitely.
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TheTimeLord
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Re: How much money do you need to retire?

Post by TheTimeLord »

Turkishcoffee wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:49 am
Iliketoridemybike wrote: Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:14 am Firecalc says I need $2.7 million. I have more than that now. 54 targeting retirement at 58.
I think these posts would be far more instructive if people clarified if their number is meant for one or two persons.

Anyone else think this would help?
Desired lifestyle probably matters just as much or more to someone's number as whether they are single or married. You would also need to understand their assumptions about withdrawal rate, do they want to leave a legacy, their assumptions about longevity and if they are including funds to cover LTC. If think if you go to https://dqydj.com/net-worth-by-age-calc ... ed-states/ and plug in some of the numbers you are seeing with the ages they are providing you will see that these numbers are not what the vast majority of people will achieve by that age. Remember to select "Primary Home: Ignore Equity" when running the number since people are talking about their portfolio number.
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. | Run, You Clever Boy! [9085]
SQRT
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Re: How much money do you need to retire?

Post by SQRT »

Unladen_Swallow wrote: Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:22 pm
renue74 wrote: Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:48 pm My old business partner is 73...retired 8 years ago...lives in a $500k home in a very nice part of the city. Is debt free and has $1.5M.

He told me he takes our $80k in income from various iras, ss, etc.

Spends $20k a year on travel to Europe....gives his kids $10k for grandkid college...and still lives very comfortably.

Many of the folks who say here they need $5m or $6m....good luck with that. One day you’ll wake up and won’t be able to spend your $.
What is the point of such irrelevant proclamations steeped in contempt? Your partner lives a good life on $1.5M. So what? It has no relevance to anyone's life. His priorities are ok, but other's are what...greedy?

So $1.5M is a justifiable need, but $5M is not? Your wealth is ok, but any more than that is not?
Your partner chose to work until 65. Why didn't he retire at 50 so he doesn't "wake up and not be able to spend his $.". Or share his time with his family?

Whatever his reasons, they are his. And his business. People retiring on just SS or $10M don't need the scorn of those who think their perfect number isn't that.
Yes, you’ve uncovered the basic problem with these types of threads. If I may state it:

“my spending level is perfect for me and should also be appropriate for you”.

Another variant:
“ the average person in this country lives on less than $60k per year so you certainly don’t need any more than that”.

Many people seem to have quite a lot of difficulty imagining how/why people that have and spend more than they do. Human nature I guess. How much and on what people spend is very personal. I figure as long as you can afford it, go for it.
stoptothink
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Re: How much money do you need to retire?

Post by stoptothink »

SQRT wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:11 am
Unladen_Swallow wrote: Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:22 pm
renue74 wrote: Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:48 pm My old business partner is 73...retired 8 years ago...lives in a $500k home in a very nice part of the city. Is debt free and has $1.5M.

He told me he takes our $80k in income from various iras, ss, etc.

Spends $20k a year on travel to Europe....gives his kids $10k for grandkid college...and still lives very comfortably.

Many of the folks who say here they need $5m or $6m....good luck with that. One day you’ll wake up and won’t be able to spend your $.
What is the point of such irrelevant proclamations steeped in contempt? Your partner lives a good life on $1.5M. So what? It has no relevance to anyone's life. His priorities are ok, but other's are what...greedy?

So $1.5M is a justifiable need, but $5M is not? Your wealth is ok, but any more than that is not?
Your partner chose to work until 65. Why didn't he retire at 50 so he doesn't "wake up and not be able to spend his $.". Or share his time with his family?

Whatever his reasons, they are his. And his business. People retiring on just SS or $10M don't need the scorn of those who think their perfect number isn't that.
Yes, you’ve uncovered the basic problem with these types of threads. If I may state it:

“my spending level is perfect for me and should also be appropriate for you”.

Another variant:
“ the average person in this country lives on less than $60k per year so you certainly don’t need any more than that”.

Many people seem to have quite a lot of difficulty imagining how/why people that have and spend more than they do. Human nature I guess. How much and on what people spend is very personal. I figure as long as you can afford it, go for it.
It goes both ways, and I'd wager to say there are quite a bit more on this board with the opposite perspective (ie. how can anybody even survive on <$100k/yr?). Just look at the "$3M in retirement" thread viewtopic.php?f=2&t=302073&p=5001123 . But, I do agree with the idea that there is a fundamental issue with these threads that makes them essentially useless for the individual.
Last edited by stoptothink on Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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CyclingDuo
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by CyclingDuo »

Pinotage wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:32 am
CyclingDuo wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:04 am
Stef wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:06 am...I want to be able to go snowboarding, snorkelling/diving, being able to do compound lifts in the gym etc.

Can't imagine I'll be able to do things like this after I turn 70.
Why wouldn't you be able to do all of that after you turn 70? Take a look around the slopes, gym, and beach. You will see plenty of active seniors.

Our plans include lots of physical activity continuing well into our retirement years once we reach those ages.

CyclingDuo
Agreed! Maybe not with the same level of intensity - but maybe XC-skiing or snowshoeing instead of snowboarding, and the like?

If an active, engaged lifestyle isn't possible after 70...what's the point of planning to cover a 30 year retirement.

Certainly enjoy your health and vitality now, but at least remain open to the possibility of the same in the future.
Agree. The investment to take care of your health and physique throughout your working years and well into your retirement years should be an equally important part of one's planning as the finances - at least in our opinion.

CyclingDuo
"Save like a pessimist, invest like an optimist." - Morgan Housel
Pierre Delecto
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by Pierre Delecto »

CyclingDuo wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:17 am
Pinotage wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:32 am
CyclingDuo wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:04 am
Stef wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:06 am...I want to be able to go snowboarding, snorkelling/diving, being able to do compound lifts in the gym etc.

Can't imagine I'll be able to do things like this after I turn 70.
Why wouldn't you be able to do all of that after you turn 70? Take a look around the slopes, gym, and beach. You will see plenty of active seniors.

Our plans include lots of physical activity continuing well into our retirement years once we reach those ages.

CyclingDuo
Agreed! Maybe not with the same level of intensity - but maybe XC-skiing or snowshoeing instead of snowboarding, and the like?

If an active, engaged lifestyle isn't possible after 70...what's the point of planning to cover a 30 year retirement.

Certainly enjoy your health and vitality now, but at least remain open to the possibility of the same in the future.
Agree. The investment to take care of your health and physique throughout your working years and well into your retirement years should be an equally important part of one's planning as the finances - at least in our opinion.

CyclingDuo
+ 1. You can’t control your genes but you can control lifestyle. My wife and I have worked out for years now and generally eat a healthy diet and it’s surprising how much younger our appearances are than our peers that don’t exercise at all / much. People are usually very surprised when they learn our ages.
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by MathIsMyWayr »

Pierre Delecto wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:21 am
CyclingDuo wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:17 am
Pinotage wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:32 am
CyclingDuo wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:04 am
Stef wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:06 am...I want to be able to go snowboarding, snorkelling/diving, being able to do compound lifts in the gym etc.

Can't imagine I'll be able to do things like this after I turn 70.
Why wouldn't you be able to do all of that after you turn 70? Take a look around the slopes, gym, and beach. You will see plenty of active seniors.

Our plans include lots of physical activity continuing well into our retirement years once we reach those ages.

CyclingDuo
Agreed! Maybe not with the same level of intensity - but maybe XC-skiing or snowshoeing instead of snowboarding, and the like?

If an active, engaged lifestyle isn't possible after 70...what's the point of planning to cover a 30 year retirement.

Certainly enjoy your health and vitality now, but at least remain open to the possibility of the same in the future.
Agree. The investment to take care of your health and physique throughout your working years and well into your retirement years should be an equally important part of one's planning as the finances - at least in our opinion.

CyclingDuo
+ 1. You can’t control your genes but you can control lifestyle. My wife and I have worked out for years now and generally eat a healthy diet and it’s surprising how much younger our appearances are than our peers that don’t exercise at all / much. People are usually very surprised when they learn our ages.
A group of well trained old soldiers look younger than a pack of younger stragglers to me.
SQRT
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Re: How much money do you need to retire?

Post by SQRT »

stoptothink wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:15 am
SQRT wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:11 am
Unladen_Swallow wrote: Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:22 pm

Whatever his reasons, they are his. And his business. People retiring on just SS or $10M don't need the scorn of those who think their perfect number isn't that.
Yes, you’ve uncovered the basic problem with these types of threads. If I may state it:

“my spending level is perfect for me and should also be appropriate for you”.

Another variant:
“ the average person in this country lives on less than $60k per year so you certainly don’t need any more than that”.

Many people seem to have quite a lot of difficulty imagining how/why people that have and spend more than they do. Human nature I guess. How much and on what people spend is very personal. I figure as long as you can afford it, go for it.
It goes both ways, and I'd wager to say there are quite a bit more on this board with the opposite perspective (ie. how can anybody even survive on <$100k/yr?). Just look at the "$3M in retirement" thread viewtopic.php?f=2&t=302073&p=5001123 . But, I do agree with the idea that there is a fundamental issue with these threads that makes them essentially useless for the individual.
Agree that the issue goes both ways. Not sure about the proportion of attitudes but either way it tends to make these threads battlegrounds of divergent lifestyles and attitudes, often including the implied judgemental criticism.
Last edited by SQRT on Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
arsenalfan
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by arsenalfan »

$5MM in combo of pretax and aftertax.
Mid 40s
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TheTimeLord
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Re: How much money do you need to retire?

Post by TheTimeLord »

SQRT wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:11 am
stoptothink wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:15 am
SQRT wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:11 am
Unladen_Swallow wrote: Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:22 pm

Whatever his reasons, they are his. And his business. People retiring on just SS or $10M don't need the scorn of those who think their perfect number isn't that.
Yes, you’ve uncovered the basic problem with these types of threads. If I may state it:

“my spending level is perfect for me and should also be appropriate for you”.

Another variant:
“ the average person in this country lives on less than $60k per year so you certainly don’t need any more than that”.

Many people seem to have quite a lot of difficulty imagining how/why people that have and spend more than they do. Human nature I guess. How much and on what people spend is very personal. I figure as long as you can afford it, go for it.
It goes both ways, and I'd wager to say there are quite a bit more on this board with the opposite perspective (ie. how can anybody even survive on <$100k/yr?). Just look at the "$3M in retirement" thread viewtopic.php?f=2&t=302073&p=5001123 . But, I do agree with the idea that there is a fundamental issue with these threads that makes them essentially useless for the individual.
Agree that the issue goes both ways. Not sure about the proportion of attitudes but either way it tends to make these threads battlegrounds of divergent lifestyles and attitudes, often including the implied judgemental criticism.
I think your perceptions of how much people should need/want is probably shaped by if you are doing a lot of the bucket list activities while working or waiting until retirement. If you are already doing them you may think how could I live without them, and if you are waiting for retirement you might be thinking if things go south I will just wait until they get better. Of course there is a huge variation in the costs of different recreational activities to. An avid hiker probably spends considerable less doing what they love than an amateur pilot.
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. | Run, You Clever Boy! [9085]
rockthisworld
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by rockthisworld »

350k by age 70 (in 2019 $$)
Using real return of 1.2%
Using SWR of 4.4% plus social security
visualguy
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by visualguy »

Pierre Delecto wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:21 am
CyclingDuo wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:17 am
Pinotage wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:32 am
CyclingDuo wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:04 am
Stef wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:06 am...I want to be able to go snowboarding, snorkelling/diving, being able to do compound lifts in the gym etc.

Can't imagine I'll be able to do things like this after I turn 70.
Why wouldn't you be able to do all of that after you turn 70? Take a look around the slopes, gym, and beach. You will see plenty of active seniors.

Our plans include lots of physical activity continuing well into our retirement years once we reach those ages.

CyclingDuo
Agreed! Maybe not with the same level of intensity - but maybe XC-skiing or snowshoeing instead of snowboarding, and the like?

If an active, engaged lifestyle isn't possible after 70...what's the point of planning to cover a 30 year retirement.

Certainly enjoy your health and vitality now, but at least remain open to the possibility of the same in the future.
Agree. The investment to take care of your health and physique throughout your working years and well into your retirement years should be an equally important part of one's planning as the finances - at least in our opinion.

CyclingDuo
+ 1. You can’t control your genes but you can control lifestyle. My wife and I have worked out for years now and generally eat a healthy diet and it’s surprising how much younger our appearances are than our peers that don’t exercise at all / much. People are usually very surprised when they learn our ages.
Lifestyle matters, of course - exercising, eating healthy, staying away from pollution, toxic substances, and carcinogens. However, my anecdotal impression is that genes and luck matter much more unless your lifestyle is truly very bad.

Looking at my family, I think I can expect to be mostly fine until my late 60s, but suffer from issues beyond that. I can already see the signs of that now in my early 50s even though I've had a healthy lifestyle. Planning on retiring in my late 50s or at 60 so that I can have at least 10 years of good health in retirement. With better genes, I would probably wait until a few years later.

We'd like 33x expenses (my wife is younger) plus $1M in reserve for paying for the first person to need LTC and/or other bad stuff that life may throw at us.
stoptothink
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by stoptothink »

visualguy wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:49 am
Pierre Delecto wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:21 am
CyclingDuo wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:17 am
Pinotage wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:32 am
CyclingDuo wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:04 am

Why wouldn't you be able to do all of that after you turn 70? Take a look around the slopes, gym, and beach. You will see plenty of active seniors.

Our plans include lots of physical activity continuing well into our retirement years once we reach those ages.

CyclingDuo
Agreed! Maybe not with the same level of intensity - but maybe XC-skiing or snowshoeing instead of snowboarding, and the like?

If an active, engaged lifestyle isn't possible after 70...what's the point of planning to cover a 30 year retirement.

Certainly enjoy your health and vitality now, but at least remain open to the possibility of the same in the future.
Agree. The investment to take care of your health and physique throughout your working years and well into your retirement years should be an equally important part of one's planning as the finances - at least in our opinion.

CyclingDuo
+ 1. You can’t control your genes but you can control lifestyle. My wife and I have worked out for years now and generally eat a healthy diet and it’s surprising how much younger our appearances are than our peers that don’t exercise at all / much. People are usually very surprised when they learn our ages.
Lifestyle matters, of course - exercising, eating healthy, staying away from pollution, toxic substances, and carcinogens. However, my anecdotal impression is that genes and luck matter much more unless your lifestyle is truly very bad.

Looking at my family, I think I can expect to be mostly fine until my late 60s, but suffer from issues beyond that. I can already see the signs of that now in my early 50s even though I've had a healthy lifestyle. Planning on retiring in my late 50s or at 60 so that I can have at least 10 years of good health in retirement. With better genes, I would probably wait until a few years later.

We'd like 33x expenses (my wife is younger) plus $1M in reserve for paying for the first person to need LTC and/or other bad stuff that life may throw at us.
This is the reality, and I say that begrudgingly as someone who has spent most of their life researching exercise, nutrition, and healthy lifestyle behaviors. My wife is going to live to 200; her family tree is filled with morbidly obese, sedentary lifelong smokers and drinkers who lived past 100. All 4 of her grandparents are still alive, all in their 90's (but looking 70 at the oldest), and every one of them having incredibly unhealthy lifestyles. My side, almost nobody has hit 70; but I am determined to be climbing mountains with my kids and grandkids until then.
RobLyons
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by RobLyons »

38 years old now, retire at 62 or hopefully sooner. ~$1M will be plenty for us which is what our Roths should provide
(you said assume pension $0 but its hard to overlook $850k ish)
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takeabiteoflife
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by takeabiteoflife »

I was hoping for $5M without any debt...that puts me about $800k away. Not sure I will make it. :?
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HomerJ
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by HomerJ »

takeabiteoflife wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:16 pm I was hoping for $5M without any debt...that puts me about $800k away. Not sure I will make it. :?
Have you tracked your expenses?

Do you spend $150k (3%) or $200k (4%) a year with the house paid off?

Note I'm not asking you what your income is... How much do you spend?

You might be able to retire today.
A Goldman Sachs associate provided a variety of detailed explanations, but then offered a caveat, “If I’m being dead-### honest, though, nobody knows what’s really going on.”
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by hicabob »

stoptothink wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:02 pm
visualguy wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:49 am
Pierre Delecto wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:21 am
CyclingDuo wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:17 am
Pinotage wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:32 am

Agreed! Maybe not with the same level of intensity - but maybe XC-skiing or snowshoeing instead of snowboarding, and the like?

If an active, engaged lifestyle isn't possible after 70...what's the point of planning to cover a 30 year retirement.

Certainly enjoy your health and vitality now, but at least remain open to the possibility of the same in the future.
Agree. The investment to take care of your health and physique throughout your working years and well into your retirement years should be an equally important part of one's planning as the finances - at least in our opinion.

CyclingDuo
+ 1. You can’t control your genes but you can control lifestyle. My wife and I have worked out for years now and generally eat a healthy diet and it’s surprising how much younger our appearances are than our peers that don’t exercise at all / much. People are usually very surprised when they learn our ages.
Lifestyle matters, of course - exercising, eating healthy, staying away from pollution, toxic substances, and carcinogens. However, my anecdotal impression is that genes and luck matter much more unless your lifestyle is truly very bad.

Looking at my family, I think I can expect to be mostly fine until my late 60s, but suffer from issues beyond that. I can already see the signs of that now in my early 50s even though I've had a healthy lifestyle. Planning on retiring in my late 50s or at 60 so that I can have at least 10 years of good health in retirement. With better genes, I would probably wait until a few years later.

We'd like 33x expenses (my wife is younger) plus $1M in reserve for paying for the first person to need LTC and/or other bad stuff that life may throw at us.
This is the reality, and I say that begrudgingly as someone who has spent most of their life researching exercise, nutrition, and healthy lifestyle behaviors. My wife is going to live to 200; her family tree is filled with morbidly obese, sedentary lifelong smokers and drinkers who lived past 100. All 4 of her grandparents are still alive, all in their 90's (but looking 70 at the oldest), and every one of them having incredibly unhealthy lifestyles. My side, almost nobody has hit 70; but I am determined to be climbing mountains with my kids and grandkids until then.
I understood that ancestral lifespan was low correlation with expected lifespan aka boglehead wisdom?
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by abuss368 »

Once there is enough that the game is won, debt is paid off, Medicare is available, and kids are set.
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by Petrocelli »

I'm 60. My goal is to retire at 70 with at least $5,000,000. I hope to surpass that goal.
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by abuss368 »

Petrocelli wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:29 pm I'm 60. My goal is to retire at 70 with at least $5,000,000. I hope to surpass that goal.
Nice goal and achievable. Will you plan to buy a new watch?
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Boglehobby
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by Boglehobby »

Estimate of how much I need = (age x pretaxincome ) / 10
If I am aiming for the FAT FIRE (or morbidly obese FIRE) then multiply by 2 ( 2standard dev of mean)
takeabiteoflife
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by takeabiteoflife »

Annual expenses are roughly 120-130k per year.
takeabiteoflife
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by takeabiteoflife »

HomerJ wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:24 pm
takeabiteoflife wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:16 pm I was hoping for $5M without any debt...that puts me about $800k away. Not sure I will make it. :?
Have you tracked your expenses?

Do you spend $150k (3%) or $200k (4%) a year with the house paid off?

Note I'm not asking you what your income is... How much do you spend?

You might be able to retire today.
Annual expenses are about 120-130k.
tibbitts
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by tibbitts »

benign_user wrote: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:20 am How much money do you want to retire? Please also state your age. Also assume your pensions will be zero.
The answer for almost everyone is: much more money than we'll ever have. You said "want", not "need."
larsm
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by larsm »

You know how much you need (or is it want) to retire? Fifty percent more than you have...
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by MathIsMyWayr »

takeabiteoflife wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:30 pm
HomerJ wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:24 pm
takeabiteoflife wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:16 pm I was hoping for $5M without any debt...that puts me about $800k away. Not sure I will make it. :?
Have you tracked your expenses?

Do you spend $150k (3%) or $200k (4%) a year with the house paid off?

Note I'm not asking you what your income is... How much do you spend?

You might be able to retire today.
Annual expenses are about 120-130k.
Will $150k leave $120k-130k for spending after tax (13.3%-20% average)?
Wricha
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Re: How much money do you need to retire?

Post by Wricha »

SQRT wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:11 am
stoptothink wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:15 am
SQRT wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:11 am
Unladen_Swallow wrote: Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:22 pm

Whatever his reasons, they are his. And his business. People retiring on just SS or $10M don't need the scorn of those who think their perfect number isn't that.
Yes, you’ve uncovered the basic problem with these types of threads. If I may state it:

“my spending level is perfect for me and should also be appropriate for you”.

Another variant:
“ the average person in this country lives on less than $60k per year so you certainly don’t need any more than that”.

Many people seem to have quite a lot of difficulty imagining how/why people that have and spend more than they do. Human nature I guess. How much and on what people spend is very personal. I figure as long as you can afford it, go for it.
It goes both ways, and I'd wager to say there are quite a bit more on this board with the opposite perspective (ie. how can anybody even survive on <$100k/yr?). Just look at the "$3M in retirement" thread viewtopic.php?f=2&t=302073&p=5001123 . But, I do agree with the idea that there is a fundamental issue with these threads that makes them essentially useless for the individual.
Agree that the issue goes both ways. Not sure about the proportion of attitudes but either way it tends to make these threads battlegrounds of divergent lifestyles and attitudes, often including the implied judgemental criticism.
Folks are really invested with trying to identify with a “group, family or organization” as to create some kind of collective ego. At the same time using this collective as a base to support their “specialness” while using the collective as hammer to destroy “the others”. Thereby reinforcing their own personal ego. In the old days we just went war until we forgot/destroy our differences.
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btq96r
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by btq96r »

EnjoyIt wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 12:32 am Holly cow, if I knew it was all downhill for me at 70 I would be retiring way sooner and not wait for 60 and only 10 good years.

10 good years.
10 good years.

I keep repeating it and just realizing how little time that really is. 10 years.

Maybe 2-3 million is enough to retire?
Downhill is up for interpenetration. I use my father as the baseline for my planning (knowing my condition won't hew exactly) because paternal inheritance is pretty strong between us on most things. Physically he's doing quite well for a guy in his early 70s, but for the last few years he's lost grip on memory (short term is pretty shot, long term is still good if I ever need a Blizzard of '78 story). He can still enjoy things in the moment, just doesn't recall the full experience beyond some overarching thoughts.

So, I figure ten strong years of retirement where travel and experiences followed by the twilight years where I'm just enjoying a quiet life with a good dog and whatever can keep me entertained, plus the medical bills that will come with old age.

That's the plan anyway.
SQRT
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Re: How much money do you need to retire?

Post by SQRT »

Wricha wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:05 am
SQRT wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:11 am Agree that the issue goes both ways. Not sure about the proportion of attitudes but either way it tends to make these threads battlegrounds of divergent lifestyles and attitudes, often including the implied judgemental criticism.
Folks are really invested with trying to identify with a “group, family or organization” as to create some kind of collective ego. At the same time using this collective as a base to support their “specialness” while using the collective as hammer to destroy “the others”. Thereby reinforcing their own personal ego. In the old days we just went war until we forgot/destroy our differences.
Could be. Your post might explain a lot of what’s going on in the world. Pretty heavy for me.
BuckyBadger
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by BuckyBadger »

I'm hoping for 3mil at 50 for two of us. We're at 1.3mil at 40 and contributing ~100k a year, so I think we'll make it.

Now, if we have the testicular fortitude to actually pull the trigger at 50 I don't know!
Laika
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by Laika »

I wonder, in polls and threads like this that span several years or are recurring, whether the target sums increase as the stock market increases? That is, are people always moving the goal posts? I suspect yes; I know I have done it myself.
Bb073084
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by Bb073084 »

35 now. Realistically $2.5M and payed off house (so total of ~$3M. Ideally $4M and paid off house. Shooting for retirement at between 50-55.
BanquetBeer
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by BanquetBeer »

My want is 3-4 mill by 40-45 for 1 person.
My ‘need’ is probably closer to 2.5 mill

*i do not own a home
Difference is to cover separate living expenses (future is long and uncertain; wouldn’t want to end up in a bad place 15-20 years later with no way to go back to work) and gifting to kids (many parents watch grandkids, I’d prefer the option to pay for a nanny for them. I like options)
seity
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by seity »

Between 20-25 times my (family's) estimated yearly expenses in retirement.
So around 750K -1M should be plenty for the two of us to retire.
Last edited by seity on Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
visualguy
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by visualguy »

Laika wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:36 pm I wonder, in polls and threads like this that span several years or are recurring, whether the target sums increase as the stock market increases? That is, are people always moving the goal posts? I suspect yes; I know I have done it myself.
I moved the goal posts, but not because of the increase in the stock market. For me it was a result of looking at things more carefully and in a less naive way. For example, I realized that my cost of living rises faster than the official rate of inflation, and will most likely continue to do so during retirement. Also, I learned to allocate more for long-term care based on the experience I'm currently going through with my parents. In general, I realized that I was underestimating expenses before.
Wricha
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Re: How much money do you need to retire?

Post by Wricha »

SQRT wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:15 pm
Wricha wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:05 am
SQRT wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:11 am Agree that the issue goes both ways. Not sure about the proportion of attitudes but either way it tends to make these threads battlegrounds of divergent lifestyles and attitudes, often including the implied judgemental criticism.
Folks are really invested with trying to identify with a “group, family or organization” as to create some kind of collective ego. At the same time using this collective as a base to support their “specialness” while using the collective as hammer to destroy “the others”. Thereby reinforcing their own personal ego. In the old days we just went war until we forgot/destroy our differences.
Could be. Your post might explain a lot of what’s going on in the world. Pretty heavy for me.
Didn’t mean to be so dense it just struck me that way. In public it’s best to be quiet and on boglehead’s it’s best to have index funds, take away your kid’s glasses when they are not looking at anything important, and no real estate except a 1100 sq ft ranch with a 10 year old Toyota in front.
Helo80
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Re: How much money do you need to retire?

Post by Helo80 »

SQRT wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:11 am Yes, you’ve uncovered the basic problem with these types of threads. If I may state it:

“my spending level is perfect for me and should also be appropriate for you”.

Another variant:
“ the average person in this country lives on less than $60k per year so you certainly don’t need any more than that”.

Many people seem to have quite a lot of difficulty imagining how/why people that have and spend more than they do. Human nature I guess. How much and on what people spend is very personal. I figure as long as you can afford it, go for it.


Everybody driving faster than me is an idiot.

Everybody driving slower than me is a moron.
SQRT
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Re: How much money do you need to retire?

Post by SQRT »

Helo80 wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:17 pm
SQRT wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:11 am Yes, you’ve uncovered the basic problem with these types of threads. If I may state it:

“my spending level is perfect for me and should also be appropriate for you”.

Another variant:
“ the average person in this country lives on less than $60k per year so you certainly don’t need any more than that”.

Many people seem to have quite a lot of difficulty imagining how/why people that have and spend more than they do. Human nature I guess. How much and on what people spend is very personal. I figure as long as you can afford it, go for it.


Everybody driving faster than me is an idiot.

Everybody driving slower than me is a moron.
That’s it. Anybody who spends less than me is a cheapskate and anybody who spends more is wasteful. :sharebeer
SQRT
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Re: How much money do you need to retire?

Post by SQRT »

Wricha wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:25 pm
SQRT wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:15 pm
Wricha wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:05 am
SQRT wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:11 am Agree that the issue goes both ways. Not sure about the proportion of attitudes but either way it tends to make these threads battlegrounds of divergent lifestyles and attitudes, often including the implied judgemental criticism.
Folks are really invested with trying to identify with a “group, family or organization” as to create some kind of collective ego. At the same time using this collective as a base to support their “specialness” while using the collective as hammer to destroy “the others”. Thereby reinforcing their own personal ego. In the old days we just went war until we forgot/destroy our differences.
Could be. Your post might explain a lot of what’s going on in the world. Pretty heavy for me.
Didn’t mean to be so dense it just struck me that way. In public it’s best to be quiet and on boglehead’s it’s best to have index funds, take away your kid’s glasses when they are not looking at anything important, and no real estate except a 1100 sq ft ranch with a 10 year old Toyota in front.
Yes. Quite surprising to me I still visit this sight.
Helo80
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Re: How much money do you need to retire?

Post by Helo80 »

SQRT wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:24 pm
Helo80 wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:17 pm
SQRT wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:11 am Yes, you’ve uncovered the basic problem with these types of threads. If I may state it:

“my spending level is perfect for me and should also be appropriate for you”.

Another variant:
“ the average person in this country lives on less than $60k per year so you certainly don’t need any more than that”.

Many people seem to have quite a lot of difficulty imagining how/why people that have and spend more than they do. Human nature I guess. How much and on what people spend is very personal. I figure as long as you can afford it, go for it.


Everybody driving faster than me is an idiot.

Everybody driving slower than me is a moron.
That’s it. Anybody who spends less than me is a cheapskate and anybody who spends more is wasteful. :sharebeer


I completely love these threads for this exact reason... people start quibbling and projecting their own personal view of financial responsibility onto others. My all-time favorite thread is when somebody found some article and created a thread (paraphrasing from memory): "The best time to buy a car is when it's 10 years old" basically angling for you no longer are losing money on depreciation and still can get plenty of life out of many 10 year old cars....
GoldenFinch
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Re: How much money do you need to retire?

Post by GoldenFinch »

SQRT wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:26 pm
Wricha wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:25 pm
SQRT wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:15 pm
Wricha wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:05 am
SQRT wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:11 am Agree that the issue goes both ways. Not sure about the proportion of attitudes but either way it tends to make these threads battlegrounds of divergent lifestyles and attitudes, often including the implied judgemental criticism.
Folks are really invested with trying to identify with a “group, family or organization” as to create some kind of collective ego. At the same time using this collective as a base to support their “specialness” while using the collective as hammer to destroy “the others”. Thereby reinforcing their own personal ego. In the old days we just went war until we forgot/destroy our differences.
Could be. Your post might explain a lot of what’s going on in the world. Pretty heavy for me.
Didn’t mean to be so dense it just struck me that way. In public it’s best to be quiet and on boglehead’s it’s best to have index funds, take away your kid’s glasses when they are not looking at anything important, and no real estate except a 1100 sq ft ranch with a 10 year old Toyota in front.
Yes. Quite surprising to me I still visit this sight.
I always appreciate your insight SQRT. The variety of viewpoints is what makes reading here worthwhile.
Pierre Delecto
Posts: 298
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Re: How much money do you need to retire?

Post by Pierre Delecto »

Wricha wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:25 pm
SQRT wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:15 pm
Wricha wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:05 am
SQRT wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:11 am Agree that the issue goes both ways. Not sure about the proportion of attitudes but either way it tends to make these threads battlegrounds of divergent lifestyles and attitudes, often including the implied judgemental criticism.
Folks are really invested with trying to identify with a “group, family or organization” as to create some kind of collective ego. At the same time using this collective as a base to support their “specialness” while using the collective as hammer to destroy “the others”. Thereby reinforcing their own personal ego. In the old days we just went war until we forgot/destroy our differences.
Could be. Your post might explain a lot of what’s going on in the world. Pretty heavy for me.
Didn’t mean to be so dense it just struck me that way. In public it’s best to be quiet and on boglehead’s it’s best to have index funds, take away your kid’s glasses when they are not looking at anything important, and no real estate except a 1100 sq ft ranch with a 10 year old Toyota in front.
“Tribalism” pretty much sums it up.
Pierre Delecto
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Re: How much money do you need to retire?

Post by Pierre Delecto »

SQRT wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:26 pm
Wricha wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:25 pm
SQRT wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:15 pm
Wricha wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:05 am
SQRT wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:11 am Agree that the issue goes both ways. Not sure about the proportion of attitudes but either way it tends to make these threads battlegrounds of divergent lifestyles and attitudes, often including the implied judgemental criticism.
Folks are really invested with trying to identify with a “group, family or organization” as to create some kind of collective ego. At the same time using this collective as a base to support their “specialness” while using the collective as hammer to destroy “the others”. Thereby reinforcing their own personal ego. In the old days we just went war until we forgot/destroy our differences.
Could be. Your post might explain a lot of what’s going on in the world. Pretty heavy for me.
Didn’t mean to be so dense it just struck me that way. In public it’s best to be quiet and on boglehead’s it’s best to have index funds, take away your kid’s glasses when they are not looking at anything important, and no real estate except a 1100 sq ft ranch with a 10 year old Toyota in front.
Yes. Quite surprising to me I still visit this sight.
And maybe I’ll retire when I have enough for a 2.5 percent withdrawal rate, ignoring social security. I’ve followed Bogleheads very sporadically for years and just signed up to comment a week ago for kicks. That may be enough. Finding the dogma is super thick and you can’t really converse.
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HomerJ
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Re: How much money do you need to retire?

Post by HomerJ »

GoldenFinch wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:52 pm
SQRT wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:26 pm
Wricha wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:25 pm
SQRT wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:15 pm
Wricha wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:05 am

Folks are really invested with trying to identify with a “group, family or organization” as to create some kind of collective ego. At the same time using this collective as a base to support their “specialness” while using the collective as hammer to destroy “the others”. Thereby reinforcing their own personal ego. In the old days we just went war until we forgot/destroy our differences.
Could be. Your post might explain a lot of what’s going on in the world. Pretty heavy for me.
Didn’t mean to be so dense it just struck me that way. In public it’s best to be quiet and on boglehead’s it’s best to have index funds, take away your kid’s glasses when they are not looking at anything important, and no real estate except a 1100 sq ft ranch with a 10 year old Toyota in front.
Yes. Quite surprising to me I still visit this sight.
I always appreciate your insight SQRT. The variety of viewpoints is what makes reading here worthwhile.
Me too... I appreciate your insight as well SQRT.

I don't think there is a problem with people having different spending habits...

It's all in the delivery.

If someone rich says "I spend $1 million a year", that's fine.

If someone rich says "I can't even imagine a life without at least $1 million a year", that starts an argument.

And if someone with less money says "I need $70k a year to cover my spending", that's fine.

But if they say "I can't understand how anyone could possibly need more than $70k a year", that starts an argument.
A Goldman Sachs associate provided a variety of detailed explanations, but then offered a caveat, “If I’m being dead-### honest, though, nobody knows what’s really going on.”
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HomerJ
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Re: How much money do you need to retire?

Post by HomerJ »

Pierre Delecto wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:17 pmAnd maybe I’ll retire when I have enough for a 2.5 percent withdrawal rate, ignoring social security. I’ve followed Bogleheads very sporadically for years and just signed up to comment a week ago for kicks. That may be enough. Finding the dogma is super thick and you can’t really converse.
Well, that will absolutely be enough. And it's just math, not dogma. :)
A Goldman Sachs associate provided a variety of detailed explanations, but then offered a caveat, “If I’m being dead-### honest, though, nobody knows what’s really going on.”
Pierre Delecto
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Re: How much money do you need to retire?

Post by Pierre Delecto »

HomerJ wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:20 pm
Pierre Delecto wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:17 pmAnd maybe I’ll retire when I have enough for a 2.5 percent withdrawal rate, ignoring social security. I’ve followed Bogleheads very sporadically for years and just signed up to comment a week ago for kicks. That may be enough. Finding the dogma is super thick and you can’t really converse.
Well, that will absolutely be enough. And it's just math, not dogma. :)
Correct. But many people on here seem to think they can’t consider retiring until they hit that level of savings. Which is insane! That would pretty much mean inflation gains only for a 40 year period before the money was gone — assuming 0 social security. God help us all if that happens as I think we’ll have bigger problems.
latesaver
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by latesaver »

Let's flip this around:

I am 40 years old. My wife is 37 years old.

Between cash, stocks and bonds I have $2.6mm saved. By the end of 2020 I expect that to be close to $3.4mm. I am in a high-earning phase.

My wife makes $225K per year with salary and bonus combined. She already has $1.0mm saved. By the end of 2020 I expect her to have close to $1.1mm.

our asset allocation is 70/30 stocks/bonds

She wants to keep working. I do not.

We have a 2 y/o and will have another child in June. I expect we will spend $105K per year until the kids leave day care and go to public school.

How much do YOU think I should save?
rai
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Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:11 am

Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by rai »

I am not saying need this much but if I had this much I'd retire today.

$7.2M would give off at 2% (say dividends/interest) $144K/year which is $12K a month.
Last edited by rai on Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" - John Lennon. | | "You say that money, isn't everything | But I'd like to see you live without it." - Silverchair
Pierre Delecto
Posts: 298
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by Pierre Delecto »

latesaver wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:34 pm Let's flip this around:

I am 40 years old. My wife is 37 years old.

Between cash, stocks and bonds I have $2.6mm saved. By the end of 2020 I expect that to be close to $3.4mm. I am in a high-earning phase.

My wife makes $225K per year with salary and bonus combined. She already has $1.0mm saved. By the end of 2020 I expect her to have close to $1.1mm.

our asset allocation is 70/30 stocks/bonds

She wants to keep working. I do not.

We have a 2 y/o and will have another child in June. I expect we will spend $105K per year until the kids leave day care and go to public school.

How much do YOU think I should save?
Nothing if you’re wife is willing to keep working. You could walk at any time.
TallBoy29er
Posts: 1025
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Re: How much money do you need to retire?

Post by TallBoy29er »

Wricha wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:25 pm
SQRT wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:15 pm
Wricha wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:05 am
SQRT wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2020 11:11 am Agree that the issue goes both ways. Not sure about the proportion of attitudes but either way it tends to make these threads battlegrounds of divergent lifestyles and attitudes, often including the implied judgemental criticism.
Folks are really invested with trying to identify with a “group, family or organization” as to create some kind of collective ego. At the same time using this collective as a base to support their “specialness” while using the collective as hammer to destroy “the others”. Thereby reinforcing their own personal ego. In the old days we just went war until we forgot/destroy our differences.
Could be. Your post might explain a lot of what’s going on in the world. Pretty heavy for me.
Didn’t mean to be so dense it just struck me that way. In public it’s best to be quiet and on boglehead’s it’s best to have index funds, take away your kid’s glasses when they are not looking at anything important, and no real estate except a 1100 sq ft ranch with a 10 year old Toyota in front.
And at that ranch house, a $150k fishing boat sitting out front, drones in the air, skiing body armor drying out on the front porch, $10k bikes hanging in the garage, a diamond ring on a finger, 2 Harley's chillin' on a trailer, an addition being added to the back of the house, all while the fam is vacationing in Europe. I must have missed the part about the 10 year old Toyota....

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