How much money do you want to retire?

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RobLyons
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by RobLyons »

$1.5M. I'm a cheap date :D
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DavidRoseMountain
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by DavidRoseMountain »

It seems like no one is ever really content with what they have - as soon as they reach a huge amount of net worth for retirement, I see people moving the goalpost further out.
Jackson12
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by Jackson12 »

3 million plus, mostly due to a special needs kid who’ll always need a special needs trust plus SSDI. Extra funds for the sibling who will need to watch over him.

Goal is 3 million and we still worry it’s not enough to support the 3 of us.
yosh99
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Re: How much money do you need to retire?

Post by yosh99 »

MrNewEngland wrote: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:46 am I'm 39 now and my plan is to retire at 55 with $1M. The reason that number is low is bc I will be able to pull a decent pension starting when I am 55.
Unless you are a government employee, DO NOT assume that pension will be what you expect in 16 years. Your employee could end the pension and freeze yours any time.
RadAudit
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by RadAudit »

I don't remember what I wanted. But, eight years ago, I left with SS, a small pension and about 1 mil in the 401(k).
FI is the best revenge. LBYM. Invest the rest. Stay the course. - PS: The cavalry isn't coming, kids. You are on your own.
MathWizard
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by MathWizard »

1.2 can retire,
1.5 million will retire.
visualguy
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by visualguy »

DavidRoseMountain wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:58 pm It seems like no one is ever really content with what they have - as soon as they reach a huge amount of net worth for retirement, I see people moving the goalpost further out.
Right, but there are good reasons for that.

There is a lot of uncertainty around health care and long-term care. The older people get, the more they realize how problematic that could potentially be, so they tend to move the goalposts with time as they realize that this is more serious than they thought. Also, those costs grow faster than inflation, which contributes further to the moving of the goalposts.

Another reason is that many want some "fun money" for retirement. More frequent and more luxurious travel, maybe buy a sports car or a boat, etc. It's nice to have some extra money to go with all that extra time in retirement. Just a few extra years of work can make the difference between simply comfortable existence in retirement to being able to live it up. It's hard to estimate the amount for this, and many people develop more expensive tastes, interests, hobbies, and habits as they age, so again the goalposts get moved.

Yet another reason is that there's the desire to help others (mostly family, but even outside the family). This also tends to develop with time. Not something you necessarily think about much during the earlier years. Again, this moves the goalposts.
WhiteMaxima
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by WhiteMaxima »

I will retire whenever I want to retire (prefer before 55) . No particular amount of money target. I will adjust my lifestyle to 3% withdraw rate. I will move to LCOL area to meet that goal.
flyingaway
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Re: How much money do you need to retire?

Post by flyingaway »

flyingaway wrote: Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:59 pm I will need $2M at 55, but want $3M then. I only work 2 half days a week for 7 months per year for a job many people say they would volunteer to do in their retirement (teaching). That makes it difficult for me to retire even if I had the money.
I cannot believe that things changed so quickly in a year. I am almost 54 and already we have $2M. Uncertainty in life and situations makes it impossible for us to retire. In the current environments, even $4M will not make me retire NOW, and I DO want to retire. But retiring at this time is irresponsible for me and my family.
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TheTimeLord
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by TheTimeLord »

AlphaLess wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:32 pm
wrongfunds wrote: Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:03 pm I am really surprised at how many say "just one more million"
It's the curse of being a boglehead.
7 digits is so 1980s.
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amitb00
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by amitb00 »

I will like to have 4-5m to retire. I will guess my expenses are 130K a year. It will take me sometime to reach there.
LarryAllen
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by LarryAllen »

I keep moving the goal posts partially due to lifestyle creep and partially due to my being overly concerned about one-off events (major medial, freak lawsuit, etc....).
marcopolo
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by marcopolo »

DavidRoseMountain wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:58 pm It seems like no one is ever really content with what they have - as soon as they reach a huge amount of net worth for retirement, I see people moving the goalpost further out.
Not everyone. We had set a target date based on life events (youngest child graduating HS, so we could move without disrupting kids lives), rather than a dollar amount target. Ended up retiring 18mo. earlier than planned. So, we pulled the goal posts in, rather than out.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
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TheTimeLord
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by TheTimeLord »

DavidRoseMountain wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:58 pm It seems like no one is ever really content with what they have - as soon as they reach a huge amount of net worth for retirement, I see people moving the goalpost further out.
I definitely do that.
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. | Run, You Clever Boy! [9085]
MnD
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by MnD »

Enough to have a somewhat higher financial standard of living versus working since we will have more time to enjoy it.
We've reached that and will be taking down the "brains and bodies for rent" signs in less than 3-6 months for me and 6-9 months for her!

We don't serially compound negative assumptions about everything (social security, pensions, low SWR's, low market returns etc). If we did we would probably never be able to retire until we were genuinely old/decrepit and likely in poor health and we'd likely have a _lot_ of regrets about that given our financial position relative to the norms. Would seem like an amazing opportunity wasted.
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stemikger
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by stemikger »

I turn 54 this month and I don't have a number. Whatever number it is I will make it work when I either get laid off or leave voluntarily. Hope I get to leave on my own terms.
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The Wizard
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by The Wizard »

amitb00 wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:24 pm I will like to have 4-5m to retire. I will guess my expenses are 130K a year. It will take me sometime to reach there.
$130k per year is high for basic expenses.
Are you padding your basics with significant additional funds for recreational activities in retirement to get that number?
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UncleBen
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by UncleBen »

How much money do you want to retire?
We don't want any of our money to retire, we want it to keep working so we don't have to :wink: .
wolf359
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Re: How much money do you need to retire?

Post by wolf359 »

yosh99 wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:10 pm
MrNewEngland wrote: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:46 am I'm 39 now and my plan is to retire at 55 with $1M. The reason that number is low is bc I will be able to pull a decent pension starting when I am 55.
Unless you are a government employee, DO NOT assume that pension will be what you expect in 16 years. Your employee could end the pension and freeze yours any time.
Even some government employees may have to worry about their pensions. State employees from states with severely underfunded pensions should have a plan B. Even Federal Government pensions are under discussion for change. While stable now, the rest of your life is hopefully a long time, and a lot could change.

I like the concept of a secure pension, but I don't like the concept of putting your entire future in someone else's hands. I'd hedge it a bit. (Disclosure: I have no pension, so I'm not speaking from experience.)
Rus In Urbe
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by Rus In Urbe »

As one writer pointed out previously, the question is how much you "want" not how much you "need."

Obviously, the answer to how much is needed is the point at which these intersect:
A. Your spending in retirement (realistically, factoring in everything, including philanthropy)
B. Anticipated longevity (look at your health, lifestyle and when your parents died and take a guess, add a fudge factor)
C. Your tolerance for risk (your need to compensate for known-unknowns and unknown-unknowns)
D. How much you plan to leave behind
Last edited by Rus In Urbe on Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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investingdad
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by investingdad »

I'm happy with our current lifestyle. Our expenses are between 120k and 130k. That includes two kids in the house. When they move out (both middle school age right now), I envision the same level of expenses which should give us a small lifestyle bump.

I think 4.5 million will pay for that over a 40 year retirement.

So we need to accumulate another two million in the next 9 years. Time will tell.
radiowave
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by radiowave »

Interesting question and been thinking about this for the past few days. I struggled with the absolute number but when I looked at it from the lens of lifestyle in retirement and tradeoffs of working a few more years vs retiring now, it made a lot more sense to me.

Current: MFJ, I work FT very stable job, DW PT, both very early 60's. If we retire now, would have to move from HCOL to LCOL area e.g. cinderblock house in FL, cut expenses, worry about healthcare, skimp on the thinks we are looking forward to in retirement like travel, hobbies, helping our community.

If I wait just 4-5 more years to retire (mid 60s) I can match our current lifestyle, pay off the mortgage to be debt free, have lifetime healthcare from employer, and with combination of both SS and small pensions, will cover all baseline expenses without tapping investments. I like my job (mostly) and willing to work a few more years to gain a better lifestyle in retirement. It seems, at least for us, there is a strong pivot point to delaying retirement rather than taking it early. I'm at maximum lifetime income and maxing out tax-deferred savings and bulking up taxable account to add a cushion for first few years in retirement.
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panhead
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by panhead »

Sandtrap wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:50 pm
cusetownusa wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:58 pm Wow, I feel so poor and far behind on my savings after reading this thread. I thought I would have a good chance of being set by 45 (38 now) but now I am second guessing it.

I think I would be perfectly fine with $2,000,000 but I would prefer $3,000,000 and $4,000,000 would be my extravagant retirement amount goal. This all assumes an early retirement age <50.
You're not alone.
Anything less than 10 mil on this thread is borderline risky. :shock:

aloha
j :D

I'll chime in that your numbers mirror mine almost exactly, but I'll likely have to work past 50 to get to the 2nd or 3rd goals. Then again, if you are talking about 2018 numbers, then ya, about spot on.
wrongfunds
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by wrongfunds »

DavidRoseMountain wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:58 pm It seems like no one is ever really content with what they have - as soon as they reach a huge amount of net worth for retirement, I see people moving the goalpost further out.
+10,000,000

It is very rare to hear from somebody who says "we have enough". And even when they do say "we have enough", they will be quick to tell you that they do wish they had more.
marcopolo
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by marcopolo »

wrongfunds wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:51 am
DavidRoseMountain wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:58 pm It seems like no one is ever really content with what they have - as soon as they reach a huge amount of net worth for retirement, I see people moving the goalpost further out.
+10,000,000

It is very rare to hear from somebody who says "we have enough". And even when they do say "we have enough", they will be quick to tell you that they do wish they had more.
I don't know that it is that rare for people to feel they have enough, but saying so on this forum will inevitably open one up to a lot of second guessing/criticism along the lines of "but, have you considered XYZ". SInce NO ONE can be ready for EVERY risk, someone will always find some hidden/ low-probability risk that your portfolio will not survive. Having "enough" is about balancing all the risks.

We feel like we have enough, but I do recognize that many on this board would disagree, and under their planning assumptions, they would be right. I am OK with that, as I am not looking for the illusory 100% safety.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
wrongfunds
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by wrongfunds »

At least on this board, you are an exception and I think you already know that. I do not recall if you did ask "permission" on this board before accepting early retirement or not but regardless, I agree with you 100% that the majority of the answers to your hypothetical question would have been "not yet; you need to work for couple more years".

What is shocking is that even when statistical study will show that there is less than 1% chance of running out of money before running out of life (for specific SWR and starting age etc), the argument against is given that "statistics apply to collection of numbers; they don't apply to individuals; I can't afford to take that 1% chance". This argument is given in complete sincerity. Ironically, the fact that *nothing* in future can ever be guaranteed, regardless of the accumulated numbers does not seem to register in their brain.
Texanbybirth
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by Texanbybirth »

stemikger wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:18 am I turn 54 this month and I don't have a number. Whatever number it is I will make it work when I either get laid off or leave voluntarily. Hope I get to leave on my own terms.
I'm 33, but otherwise agree with your post. I have no clue what our "number" is, partly because we're still a young family and I have no idea how things will play out.

All I know is we're saving right now, and it hurts so it must be good enough.
TheTimeLord wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:56 pm
DavidRoseMountain wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:58 pm It seems like no one is ever really content with what they have - as soon as they reach a huge amount of net worth for retirement, I see people moving the goalpost further out.
I definitely do that.
I'm sure this is a difficult tendency to overcome, even for those with the discipline of a BH. :beer
“The strong cannot be brave. Only the weak can be brave; and yet again, in practice, only those who can be brave can be trusted, in time of doubt, to be strong.“ - GK Chesterton
Downtown
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by Downtown »

Minimum $2.5M portfolio + $1M paid off home in HCOL area ($3.5M NW). $115k per year spend, including micro-pension + SS. 95% success rate using FIRECalc. Retire mid-fifties. We're essentially there, with multiple back-up options if things go awry. Currently navigating what we're retiring to, how we will allocate our time, figuring out health care before Medicare, etc., all while simultaneously throttling back our careers. Overall, a sense of satisfaction reaching this point. Trying to avoid any thinking that we need more $ to achieve some superior, elusive level of happiness. So far, so good.

Could we possibly hit $10M by our mid-sixties? Yes, but why would we? We have other things to do and life is unpredictable.

YMMV,
Downtown
frugalmama
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Re: How much money do you need to retire?

Post by frugalmama »

wolf359 wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:58 am
yosh99 wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:10 pm
MrNewEngland wrote: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:46 am I'm 39 now and my plan is to retire at 55 with $1M. The reason that number is low is bc I will be able to pull a decent pension starting when I am 55.
Unless you are a government employee, DO NOT assume that pension will be what you expect in 16 years. Your employee could end the pension and freeze yours any time.
Even some government employees may have to worry about their pensions. State employees from states with severely underfunded pensions should have a plan B. Even Federal Government pensions are under discussion for change. While stable now, the rest of your life is hopefully a long time, and a lot could change.

I like the concept of a secure pension, but I don't like the concept of putting your entire future in someone else's hands. I'd hedge it a bit. (Disclosure: I have no pension, so I'm not speaking from experience.)
This is exactly where we are. Based on our expenses, we could easily live off of the government pension. However, what happens if the pension doesn't happen? Stranger things have happened. So, we are planning for retirement like we have no pension. If the pension works out, that is great! However, it is just extra. Seeing that we are so far out from retirement, I'd treat SS the same way. Relying on others' decisions to be in my best interest is a huge risk to me.
dcabler
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by dcabler »

Downtown wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:50 am Minimum $2.5M portfolio + $1M paid off home in HCOL area ($3.5M NW). $115k per year spend, including micro-pension + SS. 95% success rate using FIRECalc. Retire mid-fifties. We're essentially there, with multiple back-up options if things go awry. Currently navigating what we're retiring to, how we will allocate our time, figuring out health care before Medicare, etc., all while simultaneously throttling back our careers. Overall, a sense of satisfaction reaching this point. Trying to avoid any thinking that we need more $ to achieve some superior, elusive level of happiness. So far, so good.

Could we possibly hit $10M by our mid-sixties? Yes, but why would we? We have other things to do and life is unpredictable.

YMMV,
Downtown
Hello also from Austin. Stats basically the same as yours including portfolio size and age, but house at about 50% value as yours - just not paid off. Amount left on it is dwindling, however, and we plan to sell within the next 3 years or so and downsize, which should secure an extra chunk of change for retirement. Not sure I would call Austin an HCOL area, unless you're in one of the HCOL parts of town - downtown condo anybody? :D On the other hand, pretty much gone are the days when somebody could call Austin LCOL.
Downtown
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by Downtown »

[/quote]

Hello also from Austin. Stats basically the same as yours including portfolio size and age, but house at about 50% value as yours - just not paid off. Amount left on it is dwindling, however, and we plan to sell within the next 3 years or so and downsize, which should secure an extra chunk of change for retirement. Not sure I would call Austin an HCOL area, unless you're in one of the HCOL parts of town - downtown condo anybody? :D On the other hand, pretty much gone are the days when somebody could call Austin LCOL.
[/quote]

We will retire/semi-retire in San Diego County. Definitely paying a premium for coastal real estate. Enjoy your retirement in Austin, dcabler!
Maverick3320
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Re: How much money do you need to retire?

Post by Maverick3320 »

Christine_NM wrote: Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:12 am
benign_user wrote:
Christine_NM wrote: Sorry, guys, those days are gone for today's wannabe retirees. Seems like everything that advances a person now first sets you back way too much, so the gain is minimized.
What do you mean by this?
Mainly I was thinking of educational opportunities and the rise of student debt. Also, the loss of employer pensions to help fund retirement. Professional education is the basis of work and saving for retirement.

The poll question could be rephrased as "How much education do you need to retire?". Low-skilled (or underappreciated skilled) workers are rarely fully employed and will never fully retire until disabled.
There are dozens, if not hundreds, of trade positions that require little formal schooling beyond high school. Oftentimes these trades come with paid apprenticeships that require no debt. A plumber where I live can easily clear $50/hour. The problem is that generally those same "underappreciated" workers don't want to take these positions, for a variety of reasons.
Whatyear?
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by Whatyear? »

I go back and forth on these questions of when can I retire and how much is enough, literally on a daily basis. Some days I think I can live on air as long as I don't have to go to work, and other days I decide that I don't want to just sit around all day in retirement so I've got to have (lots of) expendable cash.

I've got the same wildcards as anyone (market performance, healthcare costs, tax rates, etc.) but I will also have as of September three kids in high school, all of whom are college bound. So I'm trying to convince myself to chill out at least until I know how much it will REALLY cost to send the kids to college.

I'm 58, would love to retire at 62 with $2M, but today is one of those days where I feel like I need $2.5M - $3M. :)
dcabler
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by dcabler »

Downtown wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:04 am
Hello also from Austin. Stats basically the same as yours including portfolio size and age, but house at about 50% value as yours - just not paid off. Amount left on it is dwindling, however, and we plan to sell within the next 3 years or so and downsize, which should secure an extra chunk of change for retirement. Not sure I would call Austin an HCOL area, unless you're in one of the HCOL parts of town - downtown condo anybody? :D On the other hand, pretty much gone are the days when somebody could call Austin LCOL.
[/quote]

We will retire/semi-retire in San Diego County. Definitely paying a premium for coastal real estate. Enjoy your retirement in Austin, dcabler!
[/quote]

Thanks! But as part of the downsizing, it's unlikely that our retirement will be here in Austin. Just starting to think about possible places to move to once the kiddo graduates high school in a year or so.
HillCountry
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by HillCountry »

dcabler wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:29 am
But as part of the downsizing, it's unlikely that our retirement will be here in Austin. Just starting to think about possible places to move to once the kiddo graduates high school in a year or so.
Where are some of the places you are looking at?

In 5 years I will also make some choices, when my youngest leave for college.

I’m thinking to build a smaller but more expensive home in Austin. But I am not fixed in living in Austin.
soccerrules
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by soccerrules »

Whatyear? wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:26 am I go back and forth on these questions of when can I retire and how much is enough, literally on a daily basis. Some days I think I can live on air as long as I don't have to go to work, and other days I decide that I don't want to just sit around all day in retirement so I've got to have (lots of) expendable cash.

I've got the same wildcards as anyone (market performance, healthcare costs, tax rates, etc.) but I will also have as of September three kids in high school, all of whom are college bound. So I'm trying to convince myself to chill out at least until I know how much it will REALLY cost to send the kids to college.

I'm 58, would love to retire at 62 with $2M, but today is one of those days where I feel like I need $2.5M - $3M. :)
I hear/feel you.
I see $2M -2.5M being "enough" for what we want/need. I also read 20 years post retirement, retirees have 88% of the nest egg they started retirement with, so I go :confused :confused :?:
I have 1 out of college, 1 -50% done with college and 1 - 2 years from starting. I have paid for 6 years of the 12 years of college. In 2-3 years I can see the end of college and mortgage and what the market returned during that time, to see more clearly the finish line.
Best of luck to us all.
Don't let your outflow exceed your income or your upkeep will be your downfall.
dcabler
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by dcabler »

HillCountry wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:47 am
dcabler wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:29 am
But as part of the downsizing, it's unlikely that our retirement will be here in Austin. Just starting to think about possible places to move to once the kiddo graduates high school in a year or so.
Where are some of the places you are looking at?

In 5 years I will also make some choices, when my youngest leave for college.

I’m thinking to build a smaller but more expensive home in Austin. But I am not fixed in living in Austin.
Good question. Near Austin, thinking about places like Wimberley - maybe San Marcos area. Starting to think outside of TX. Have a former colleague who moved to the Asheville, NC area. Basically we're wide open with lots of considerations that we're still contemplating. Need to do some visiting as well to see if places pass the smell test, etc...
davehica
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by davehica »

Currently 41 and targeting $5MM in today’s dollars to retire at 55 or 6MM if things go well and I can retire at 50.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

wrongfunds wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:51 am
DavidRoseMountain wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:58 pm It seems like no one is ever really content with what they have - as soon as they reach a huge amount of net worth for retirement, I see people moving the goalpost further out.
+10,000,000

It is very rare to hear from somebody who says "we have enough". And even when they do say "we have enough", they will be quick to tell you that they do wish they had more.
Well, WE HAVE ENOUGH. Pardon me for yelling. We have at least twice what we need, perhaps more. We welcome additional money, but that’s not why my wife still works; there are people who actually enjoy working — her Dad still works and he’s approaching 90 yo.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
Bacchus01
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Re: How much money do you need to retire?

Post by Bacchus01 »

Maverick3320 wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:22 am
Christine_NM wrote: Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:12 am
benign_user wrote:
Christine_NM wrote: Sorry, guys, those days are gone for today's wannabe retirees. Seems like everything that advances a person now first sets you back way too much, so the gain is minimized.
What do you mean by this?
Mainly I was thinking of educational opportunities and the rise of student debt. Also, the loss of employer pensions to help fund retirement. Professional education is the basis of work and saving for retirement.

The poll question could be rephrased as "How much education do you need to retire?". Low-skilled (or underappreciated skilled) workers are rarely fully employed and will never fully retire until disabled.
There are dozens, if not hundreds, of trade positions that require little formal schooling beyond high school. Oftentimes these trades come with paid apprenticeships that require no debt. A plumber where I live can easily clear $50/hour. The problem is that generally those same "underappreciated" workers don't want to take these positions, for a variety of reasons.
An apprenticeship IS formal schooling.
wrongfunds
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by wrongfunds »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:37 pm
wrongfunds wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:51 am
DavidRoseMountain wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:58 pm It seems like no one is ever really content with what they have - as soon as they reach a huge amount of net worth for retirement, I see people moving the goalpost further out.
+10,000,000

It is very rare to hear from somebody who says "we have enough". And even when they do say "we have enough", they will be quick to tell you that they do wish they had more.
Well, WE HAVE ENOUGH. Pardon me for yelling. We have at least twice what we need, perhaps more. We welcome additional money, but that’s not why my wife still works; there are people who actually enjoy working — her Dad still works and he’s approaching 90 yo.
OK; I give you that BUT YOU ARE RARE HERE! AND YES, I am also yelling :-)
Trader/Investor
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by Trader/Investor »

You will die sooner than you think and don't save the best for last. 2 million was my goal and now with 2.3 million finding it hard on where and what to spend my money on. Worry more now about dying with too much than not enough. Especially in light of rising money market rates. No plans to move since I love where I live. No plans for exotic travel as that is not my thing. Not into status so no exotic cars for me. Just my three Nissan Xterras which are perfect for my outdoor lifestyle. I am just thankful at my age (71) I can still hike with the younger crowd and hiking is about all I do day in and day out. Sounds boring to some but can't think of a better way to live out my remaining years.
Last edited by Trader/Investor on Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
GetMeToRetirement
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by GetMeToRetirement »

I'm hoping to retire, after paying off our mortgage, when we can withdraw about $6,000 per month (in today's dollars) after taxes at hopefully a 3.5% withdrawal rate.

Beyond maxing out the 401k, I'm aggressively saving in my HSA and kids' 529s, and making early principal payments on my mortgage, in an effort to speed up the arrival date!

Disclaimer: Currently 35 y/o, Spouse 34, Kids 4 and 1, so it's admittedly way to early to reliably predict what impacts inflation, health insurance changes, and tax law changes might have on expenses in the future.
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HomerJ
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by HomerJ »

visualguy wrote: Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:23 pm House + $5M seems pretty safe for retirement in the 50s. I know people do it on much less, but I don't know how the numbers work out for them. You have to make all kinds of assumptions that I'm not comfortable with to make it work on much less than that. Regular expenses add up very quickly - property and income taxes, health insurance and other health care, homeowners insurance, cars, utilities, food, vacations, hobbies, possibly having to help people in your family, and the list goes on and on... Then there are big ones like home renovation (bound to happen at some point), and particularly long-term care (assisted living or someone coming to help, nursing home...)
Have you actually tracked your current "regular expenses"? Because in my experience, they don't add up very quickly. Utilities and food and car/home insurance don't cost that much... let's say $2000 a month, which is high for most people.

Now, property taxes are hugely variable, as is health-care.

But let's say $2000 a month for health-care, and $1000 a month for property taxes. Again, too high for most people... but let's use those numbers.

Then another $500 a month for an occasional new car and gas. Then another $500 a month for occasional house repairs.

That puts you at $6000 a month... Which requires $2 million or so if you're pulling 3.5% in your 50s. So the next $3 million in your $5 million goal is purely for hobbies and vacations and fun. That's $9000 a month for fun.

Totally understandable if that's what you want... but I have no idea how you "don't know how the numbers work for them".

You can't understand how some people don't require $9000 a month every month for hobbies and vacations?

(And we ignored Social Security... A couple, especially on these boards, can easily get $2000-$5000 a month from SS. That makes that base $6000/month expenses pretty easy to achieve... I expect my wife and I will get $4000 a month from SS, which means we really only need $2000 a month from our investments - $700k would be enough).
A Goldman Sachs associate provided a variety of detailed explanations, but then offered a caveat, “If I’m being dead-### honest, though, nobody knows what’s really going on.”
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HomerJ
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by HomerJ »

new2bogle wrote: Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:57 pm
HomerJ wrote:
There are some absolutely beautiful LCOL (low cost of living) areas in this country. Most of the people who think they need 2-4 million live in HCOL (high cost of living) areas with high property taxes, etc.
Are Denver or Portland LCOL? I can't think of a single truly LCOL area in the U.S. I would want to live in (maybe 2 hours east of Seattle, but then one would be 2 hours east of the place one wants to live in). There's a reason HCOL areas are HCOL.
You need to look around more. Plenty of beautiful lake or mountain areas near big cities or university towns with plenty of culture and activities.

The reason HCOL areas are HCOL is not always because they are nice places to live but because that's where the jobs and good schools are... Two things you don't have to care about in retirement.

Do you really need to live in Manhattan when you are retired to enjoy New York? Is New York or Boston really so wonderful in the winter?

California is the only one that can claim beautiful weather to go with it's high cost of living, but again, if you're not working, you can get the same weather moving 20-80 miles up/down the coast, and save a ton of money.
A Goldman Sachs associate provided a variety of detailed explanations, but then offered a caveat, “If I’m being dead-### honest, though, nobody knows what’s really going on.”
wrongfunds
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by wrongfunds »

HomerJ wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:11 pm (And we ignored Social Security... A couple, especially on these boards, can easily get $2000-$5000 a month from SS. That makes that base $6000/month expenses pretty easy to achieve... I expect my wife and I will get $4000 a month from SS, which means we really only need $2000 a month from our investments - $700k would be enough).
Doesn't that only work if you assume taking SS at 70? There is huge difference between taking it at earliest vs taking it as late as possible.
Caligal
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by Caligal »

For Homer -

100 miles up or down the coast, give or take - $500k price range. Saving a ton of money is inaccurate - but otherwise I agree that if you are willing to leave California, there are many options of nice places to live. Minus the weather.

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/G ... _zm/0_mmm/

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/M ... _zm/0_mmm/
visualguy
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by visualguy »

HomerJ wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:11 pm Have you actually tracked your current "regular expenses"? Because in my experience, they don't add up very quickly. Utilities and food and car/home insurance don't cost that much... let's say $2000 a month, which is high for most people.

Now, property taxes are hugely variable, as is health-care.

But let's say $2000 a month for health-care, and $1000 a month for property taxes. Again, too high for most people... but let's use those numbers.

Then another $500 a month for an occasional new car and gas. Then another $500 a month for occasional house repairs.

That puts you at $6000 a month... Which requires $2 million or so if you're pulling 3.5% in your 50s. So the next $3 million in your $5 million goal is purely for hobbies and vacations and fun. That's $9000 a month for fun.

Totally understandable if that's what you want... but I have no idea how you "don't know how the numbers work for them".

You can't understand how some people don't require $9000 a month every month for hobbies and vacations?

(And we ignored Social Security... A couple, especially on these boards, can easily get $2000-$5000 a month from SS. That makes that base $6000/month expenses pretty easy to achieve... I expect my wife and I will get $4000 a month from SS, which means we really only need $2000 a month from our investments - $700k would be enough).
What about various income taxes? You are not counting that, and it's a lot of money. Your $1K/mo for property taxes is too low for many areas. $500/mo for cars is too low if you and your spouse own cars. $500/mo for house repairs is too low unless you're just looking at the minor stuff. A house renovation is a lot of money, and the time comes sooner or later. Long-term care is not included in your analysis. I could go on...

I'm not saying you can't live on $6K a month (many obviously make do on less than that), just that it would entail risks and compromises that I wouldn't be comfortable with. It wouldn't cover my expenses (even ignoring travel/hobbies), and I don't live an extravagant lifestyle.
LiterallyIronic
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by LiterallyIronic »

visualguy wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:24 pm
HomerJ wrote: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:11 pm Have you actually tracked your current "regular expenses"? Because in my experience, they don't add up very quickly. Utilities and food and car/home insurance don't cost that much... let's say $2000 a month, which is high for most people.

Now, property taxes are hugely variable, as is health-care.

But let's say $2000 a month for health-care, and $1000 a month for property taxes. Again, too high for most people... but let's use those numbers.

Then another $500 a month for an occasional new car and gas. Then another $500 a month for occasional house repairs.

That puts you at $6000 a month... Which requires $2 million or so if you're pulling 3.5% in your 50s. So the next $3 million in your $5 million goal is purely for hobbies and vacations and fun. That's $9000 a month for fun.

Totally understandable if that's what you want... but I have no idea how you "don't know how the numbers work for them".

You can't understand how some people don't require $9000 a month every month for hobbies and vacations?

(And we ignored Social Security... A couple, especially on these boards, can easily get $2000-$5000 a month from SS. That makes that base $6000/month expenses pretty easy to achieve... I expect my wife and I will get $4000 a month from SS, which means we really only need $2000 a month from our investments - $700k would be enough).
What about various income taxes? You are not counting that, and it's a lot of money. Your $1K/mo for property taxes is too low for many areas. $500/mo for cars is too low if you and your spouse own cars. $500/mo for house repairs is too low unless you're just looking at the minor stuff. A house renovation is a lot of money, and the time comes sooner or later. Long-term care is not included in your analysis. I could go on...

I'm not saying you can't live on $6K a month (many obviously make do on less than that), just that it would entail risks and compromises that I wouldn't be comfortable with. It wouldn't cover my expenses (even ignoring travel/hobbies), and I don't live an extravagant lifestyle.
Yeah, but then there is the flipside, which HomerJ may be closer to. Sure, property tax may be higher than $1k/month in many areas, but property tax on our house is $900/year, while $500/month is far too high for cars (even if you have two) if you're driving clunkers. I could go on...
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Darth Xanadu
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Re: How much money do you want to retire?

Post by Darth Xanadu »

Age: 41 (Wife: 34)
Kids: 1 (age 7 months)

My goal is to retire at the earliest of (i) 60 years old, (ii) 35x expenses, or (iii) portfolio total of $5M (net of mortgage, and excluding home equity).

I'm guessing I'll retire at 60 lol. No pension, and not really banking on SS.
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