How much money do you want to retire?

[mclvngr]

I'm 51, my wife is 48.

Maybe 8 years away from retirement.

Current net worth about $4 million, not including pension or SS.

I'll win the game when I'm worth $5 million.

[HomerJ]

I only know a handful of people that are retired right now and NONE of them have a million bucks and are living just fine.
I live in a small town in NC so I guess that may have something to do with it and all of them are debt free,that I know of anyway.

If everything is paid for do you really need 2-4 million like I'm seeing alot of folks on here post? I mean I would rather have to much than not enough but it doesn't seem like that much would be needed.

There are some absolutely beautiful LCOL (low cost of living) areas in this country. Most of the people who think they need 2-4 million live in HCOL (high cost of living) areas with high property taxes, etc.

Food and utilities just don't cost that much. With a paid off house at the lake, I could easily live there on $30,000 a year, and that includes gas and maintenance for the boat and jetski. My wife and I will get more than that just in Social Security.

So technically, we could just work until 65 and never save a dime.

But... and there are multiple buts...

(1) We may not be able to work until 65.
(2) We really don't want to work until 65.
(3) Health-care is a big unknown, especially if we retire before 65 and Medicare.
(4) My wife likes to travel a lot.
(5) We don't want money to feel tight.
(6) Kids may need help someday.
(7) Parents may need help someday.
(8) Siblings may need help someday.
(9) We'd like to leave an inheritance for the kids someday.

So we save and save, so we can retire at 55, and take a cruise on the spur of the moment, or fly to help out with grandchildren whenever we are needed, or cover an unexpected health care bill for us or anyone else in the family, etc.

[frugalecon]

I'm 51, my wife is 48.

Maybe 8 years away from retirement.

Current net worth about $4 million, not including pension or SS.

I'll win the game when I'm worth $5 million.

Similar ages, multiply all of your numbers (except time to retirement, that is more or less the same) by about 0.6 and you will be in the ballpark of mine.

[JBTX]

I only know a handful of people that are retired right now and NONE of them have a million bucks and are living just fine.
I live in a small town in NC so I guess that may have something to do with it and all of them are debt free,that I know of anyway.

If everything is paid for do you really need 2-4 million like I'm seeing alot of folks on here post? I mean I would rather have to much than not enough but it doesn't seem like that much would be needed.

30x annual expenses.

[wrongfunds]

I am really surprised at how many say "just one more million"

[benign_user]

I am really surprised at how many say "just one more million"

I need a little more than one more million.

[wrongfunds]

And once you get that one, you realize that is NOT enough and need more. I am not criticizing as I am in the same boat.

[daveydoo]

And once you get that one, you realize that is NOT enough and need more. I am not criticizing as I am in the same boat.

Since this has evolved into a sort of poll, and to get my post count off of 666 as fast as possible (although I'm not sure why), I'll agree that this number has been a moving target for me for a long time. How much of this reflects a changing of my perspective vs. the impact of falling interest rates, however, I can't really sort out.

[gasdoc]

I, for one, did not change my number based on falling interest rates. I did, however, revise my expected expenses in retirement downward.

gasdoc

[goodenyou]

And once you get that one, you realize that is NOT enough and need more. I am not criticizing as I am in the same boat.

For every million, you get $2,500 per month to "spend". For some, that doesn't go very far to meet their expectations in retirement. If you delay Social Security until 70, and you want to retire earlier, the amount to save adds up quickly.

[mega317]

For every million, you get $2,500 per month to "spend".

That's 3% initial withdrawal, super conservative.

[new2bogle]

There are some absolutely beautiful LCOL (low cost of living) areas in this country. Most of the people who think they need 2-4 million live in HCOL (high cost of living) areas with high property taxes, etc.

Are Denver or Portland LCOL? I can't think of a single truly LCOL area in the U.S. I would want to live in (maybe 2 hours east of Seattle, but then one would be 2 hours east of the place one wants to live in). There's a reason HCOL areas are HCOL.

[goodenyou]

For every million, you get $2,500 per month to "spend".

That's 3% initial withdrawal, super conservative.

Depends on what age you retire, and it's not so "super" conservative anymore.

[freebeer]

There are some absolutely beautiful LCOL (low cost of living) areas in this country. Most of the people who think they need 2-4 million live in HCOL (high cost of living) areas with high property taxes, etc.

Are Denver or Portland LCOL? I can't think of a single truly LCOL area in the U.S. I would want to live in (maybe 2 hours east of Seattle, but then one would be 2 hours east of the place one wants to live in). There's a reason HCOL areas are HCOL.

1.5 hours west of Seattle is not so bad either... nor is 1 hour south of Portland OR

[iamcam]

My age is 36, wife: 31. Current NW excluding paid off home = 1.7M.

Goal is 3M by age 40 to have the option to retire or greatly modify my career to something less $ focused.

My walk away no questions asked number is 5M, but I'd really like to also have enough SS credits banked so as to not leave $ on the table there.

[wrongfunds]

And once you get that one, you realize that is NOT enough and need more. I am not criticizing as I am in the same boat.

For every million, you get $2,500 per month to "spend". For some, that doesn't go very far to meet their expectations in retirement. If you delay Social Security until 70, and you want to retire earlier, the amount to save adds up quickly.

I agree with you that $2,500 sounds "peanuts" but if your real and reasonable expenses (with paid housing and no kid's education) are in 60K range, then that "peanuts money" satisfies half of your expense. One could want unlimited discretionary spending money to the budget e.g. Viking River Cruises every quarter during your early retirement years and first class air fare to the port city OR one would continue the reasonable living (which actually allowed you to add million(s) to your retirement kitty in the first place) and allocate say $15K for travel budget per year using coach fares and credit card miles. Once you start taking the SS and/or pension and RMD, you might be able to even upgrade to business class! OR health situation might force you to cut down on travel. Horrors of horrors, you might end up with too much income and will have to pay lots of taxes!

There is a fine line between the time left over and the money to spend. Do you want to have lots of money but little time? I can't even answer that question for own self. I am expecting you to answer that either but at least one should ponder it a little bit.

[denismurf]

I'm 80 and living in a HCOL area; no longer married, but have grown kids and little grandkids.

I have enough net pension income to live comfortably and give generous gifts, plus about one million stashed and reinvested in money markets.

That one million is to ensure that my kids don't have to go broke paying for my care when I become physically and mentally challenged like almost all my contemporaries. Yes, I have to acknowledge that it might happen to me. Some day. No matter what a great guy I am.

[goodenyou]

And once you get that one, you realize that is NOT enough and need more. I am not criticizing as I am in the same boat.

For every million, you get $2,500 per month to "spend". For some, that doesn't go very far to meet their expectations in retirement. If you delay Social Security until 70, and you want to retire earlier, the amount to save adds up quickly.

I agree with you that $2,500 sounds "peanuts" but if your real and reasonable expenses (with paid housing and no kid's education) are in 60K range, then that "peanuts money" satisfies half of your expense. One could want unlimited discretionary spending money to the budget e.g. Viking River Cruises every quarter during your early retirement years and first class air fare to the port city OR one would continue the reasonable living (which actually allowed you to add million(s) to your retirement kitty in the first place) and allocate say $15K for travel budget per year using coach fares and credit card miles. Once you start taking the SS and/or pension and RMD, you might be able to even upgrade to business class! OR health situation might force you to cut down on travel. Horrors of horrors, you might end up with too much income and will have to pay lots of taxes!

There is a fine line between the time left over and the money to spend. Do you want to have lots of money but little time? I can't even answer that question for own self. I am expecting you to answer that either but at least one should ponder it a little bit.

Personally, I expect to leave significant legacy money. It's important to me. How much one spends and on what they spend it on will always invite flamethrowers and class envy comments. I don't go there.

[IlliniDave]

Well, with no pension or SS I would want ~ $1.5M minimum to retire early. I'm 53 now, single, and planning to leave work at 55. Since I expect a small annuity from my employer and SS, my true minimum number is considerably less than that. I project to have $1.0-$1.2M in invested assets at age 55, which is more than enough.

[visualguy]

House + $5M seems pretty safe for retirement in the 50s. I know people do it on much less, but I don't know how the numbers work out for them. You have to make all kinds of assumptions that I'm not comfortable with to make it work on much less than that. Regular expenses add up very quickly - property and income taxes, health insurance and other health care, homeowners insurance, cars, utilities, food, vacations, hobbies, possibly having to help people in your family, and the list goes on and on... Then there are big ones like home renovation (bound to happen at some point), and particularly long-term care (assisted living or someone coming to help, nursing home...)

[new2bogle]

Fidelity's "Retirement Analysis" shows that I will have $932,000 in a "significantly below average market" which will lead to a gap of $40,000 per year.

In its "Average" market calculation, it says I will have $2.1 million, which will lead to a surplus of $35,000 per year.

This assumes retiring at 60 and planning until 90.

In my head, I want at least $2 million in my accounts (today's money), SS on top of that, whatever it may be.

[lookingforward2500]

Spouse most likely retiring next year (both of us currently 57). We'll have about 3.5M plus a paid off house and modest non-cost of living adjusted pension of about $36,000 per year. Eventually we will sell our current house and move to a more moderate cost of living area where we'll buy a less expensive home and hopefully add another $500,000 to our portfolio. So for us, the number will (hopefully) be at least $4M plus the pension.

[mmcmonster]

Wife and I are both 46.

Plan to "retire" at 52.5 with $5M, no debt, house paid off, and both kids schools well under control.

I probably won't retire then, but really slow down. Office only, 4 day weeks, no nights/weekends. Pretty much to keep me out of my wife's way and still get health insurance through work.

According to my charts it's possible if the market give me 7% returns over that time period and we continue to save at our current crazy rates and no health issues until then.

8/2023. It's not on my calendar, but it is on my radar.

[Dottie57]

At least a billion backaroos.

But I will settle for what I have today!

I am 60

[Icecakes]

I wish people would enter the following:

1) if they are married
2) if they count on full social security (and when)

This would make this thread more interesting and helpful to me. I for one, assume I will need more since I am married.

[schachtw]

Never figured out how much we wanted/needed for retirement. However, my wife and I did retire at 65 with 5M.

Lots of hard work, living below our means, sticking with VG funds and some luck along the way. For sure, we feel very fortunate.

[renue74]

Age: 43 (Wife: 47)
Kids: 2 (15 and 12)...both we've saved 100% college
I would like to retire at 55....wife will wait until she's 65.
Current portfolio: $1.6M
Retirement wish: $3M

[Oneworld82]

It's highly subjective, I'd say. My wife and I are 35 and 24, both employed (combined income little shy of 100k a year) and we live in cheap Texas. We have (again, combined) about 101k saved in our 401k's, plus 5k in Roth IRAs and ~65k in liquid assets. We have two daughters and plan to have no more children. We have 130k left on our mortgage and about 25k left in student loans plus two cars that we are paying for. We save 15% for our 401k and about 5k cash every month on average. As long as I will like my job, I will have no problems keep working until I am 65, my wife would be 53 then. We plan to have 3M (at least) saved in our 401k's plus 2M in other accounts before we retire. Assuming an average market return of 5.5-6.5% we'll hit our goal handsomely.

However, we are in a peculiar situation, as while we live in the US now we also have EU passports and plan to retire in my home country, which offer free healthcare for everyone residing there - that could be huge 30 years from now. Life there is also cheaper.

[IngognitoUSA]

At some point it is no longer about the money. Some of us enjoy playing the game, sort of real life monopoly. After decades of aggressive accumulation, how does one just turn off the switch and take on retirement full time.

[Bacchus01]

My goal was always $10M.

I’m the last few years I’ve thought long and hard about $5M

Lately, running I-Orp and others, seems like we need just $3.5M. We have about $2.75M today at age 44/49.

We will have three pensions totaling about $45k/yr not cola, and SS of about $45k/yr. our expenses when the kids are out of the house are expected to be well below that, so it means we largely have to fund that time u til 65-70.

Key questions that keep me thinking: medical costs, college costs, and ability to walk away. I will likely have a windfall in the next 12-18 months that will be as much as $2M before taxes. But I may also be in a position to be pulling a 7-figure Total comp. will I be able to walk away from that? Honestly? Unlikely.

[kenoryan]

5 M and a house seems more than enough for 55 plus couple.

[AerialWombat]

.....

[Green Street]

29, 2.5-3M at age 41 for retirement

[Oneworld82]

My goal was always $10M.

I’m the last few years I’ve thought long and hard about $5M

Lately, running I-Orp and others, seems like we need just $3.5M. We have about $2.75M today at age 44/49.

We will have three pensions totaling about $45k/yr not cola, and SS of about $45k/yr. our expenses when the kids are out of the house are expected to be well below that, so it means we largely have to fund that time u til 65-70.

Key questions that keep me thinking: medical costs, college costs, and ability to walk away. I will likely have a windfall in the next 12-18 months that will be as much as $2M before taxes. But I may also be in a position to be pulling a 7-figure Total comp. will I be able to walk away from that? Honestly? Unlikely.

Everyone needs motivation - so good for you that you enjoy what you do!

However, I would caution you against making your work your life. Life's more than work. I feel most successful people in the US don't enjoy the arts, music, traveling, literature. Politics. Not saying it's your case, but it's certainly something to think about.

[Oneworld82]

So how do you count the 401k ?
Dollar for dollar, not same as your taxable savings.
And if you have large unrealized gain in taxable, is that really the same as if you had none ?

Kinda hard to meausure a total without considering the tax liabilities or possibly liquidity. If all your NW is tied up in real estate, then what ? You have to sell or live off cash flow.

Point is, not only are expenses a variable, but so is the value of your portfolio.

I just say save ALOT. More is better than less.
Then LBYM in retirement, whatever your means.

My only problem with that is: you save all your life, then when you are 65 you are old and get sick and die shortly after. Morale of the story: someone else will enjoy your hard work. I strongly advocate for savings, but please folks, PLEASE, don't forget that you only live once...

[matatupuncher]

41 y/o, wife is 37. Currently have about 900K. Will retire with absolute certainty the day I turn 50 regardless of how much or little I have. Counting on SS being zero. To each their own but I'm seriously blown away at the numbers posted here that some people need.

[pennylane]

So how do you count the 401k ?
Dollar for dollar, not same as your taxable savings.
And if you have large unrealized gain in taxable, is that really the same as if you had none ?

Kinda hard to meausure a total without considering the tax liabilities or possibly liquidity. If all your NW is tied up in real estate, then what ? You have to sell or live off cash flow.

Point is, not only are expenses a variable, but so is the value of your portfolio.

I just say save ALOT. More is better than less.
Then LBYM in retirement, whatever your means.

My only problem with that is: you save all your life, then when you are 65 you are old and get sick and die shortly after. Morale of the story: someone else will enjoy your hard work. I strongly advocate for savings, but please folks, PLEASE, don't forget that you only live once...

THIS. Someone else will spend your money like it was free.... cause it was.

[One Ping]

We will have three pensions totaling about $45k/yr not cola, and SS of about $45k/yr. our expenses when the kids are out of the house are expected to be well below that, so it means we largely have to fund that time u til 65-70.

Key questions that keep me thinking: medical costs, college costs, and ability to walk away.

Another thing to think about is how much of those pensions and SS will, in the 'worst case', be available to the surviving spouse?

After the first death the lowest SS benefit essentially goes away and, depending on the survivor option selected for the pensions, some or most or all of the pensions may go away, too.

For example, the 'worst case' may when the spouse with the 'most pension and SS benefits' dies young (say at 65) and the survivor is left with only 2/3 of the pre-death joint SS benefit and maybe only a 50% survivor benefit on one of the smaller non-cola pensions.

Just one more thing to consider.

[Yukon]

41 y/o, wife is 37. Currently have about 900K. Will retire with absolute certainty the day I turn 50 regardless of how much or little I have. Counting on SS being zero. To each their own but I'm seriously blown away at the numbers posted here that some people need.

I'm more blown away at retiring with absolute certainty the day you turn 50. Both sides can feel extreme. Do you have a pension? What happens if your 900k turns into 450k in 10 years?

[The Wizard]

41 y/o, wife is 37. Currently have about 900K. Will retire with absolute certainty the day I turn 50 regardless of how much or little I have. Counting on SS being zero. To each their own but I'm seriously blown away at the numbers posted here that some people need.

It depends a lot on Desired Income in retirement.
Let's say you want $100k per year in today's dollars.
You need a plan to figure where that will be coming from...

[kd2008]

Either I live in a bubble where I see people retire with few hundred thousand dollars to their name or this thread is a demonstration that people know lot about investing and literally nothing about retiring ...

[DR]

Either I live in a bubble where I see people retire with few hundred thousand dollars to their name or this thread is a demonstration that people know lot about investing and literally nothing about retiring ...

I hear ya! I'm often baffled by a lot of this kind of talk. I don't feel poor at all. Indeed, I feel quite wealthy and look around me and see that I have more to spend than most of my friends etc. Wealth is relative I suppose. When I semi-retire in 2019 my total accumulation of retirement and taxable accounts will be about 850K in 2018 dollars. This model assumes 2.5% inflation and an average 4% nominal return on my 850K and provides me an even living standard from age 61-100 of 85K per year in inflation-adjusted 2018 dollars, that is, 85K remaining to spend after I've paid federal and state taxes, Medicare B, property tax and insurance (I have not mortgage), and annual premium for health insurance continuation til I hit 65 and enroll in Medicare. I think not having a mortgage helps me a lot, and the extra credits by pushing SS off til 70 for both me and spouse is a huge bonus behind this 85,000 of annual discretionary spending. Granted, 850K is not the "few hundred thousand" you refer to KD2008, but it's not the millions described in the thread above either. I'm counting the total my wife and I have together. Again, I suppose many people would despair if they had to live on 85K of discretionary spending.

[bubbadog]

Maybe a better approach is to not spend too much time chasing a particular number and instead just focus on a balance between enjoying life and a reasonable investment plan.

A lot of people don't get to choose a number.

They get "retired" and don't choose to retire.

Their number is chosen for them.

[multiham]

2 million would be great. 53 years old, spouse is 50. My goal is to have the ABILITY to retire the day I hit 55. If I’m enjoying my work, I’ll stay 2 more years. If not, I’m retiring. Here is my rationale.

1. Megacorp goes through 1 or 2 layoffs per year. Had enough of that stress.

2. Have built contacts that will allow me to work 15 hours from home once I retire (if I want to). Money is ok..will allow me a softer transition if I need it and will pay property taxes and utilities.

3. Both my parents passed away when they were late 50’s, early 60’s with no warning. Neither enjoyed a day of retirement

I have a very good idea on what my expenses are, how much I can cut them if necessary, and also how much I can increase spending if the markets are kind.

[winterfan]

Five years ago, I thought 1M with a paid off house would be OK. Now as my child ages, I'm not so sure. We are looking at continuing private education into HS, instead of stopping at middle school, assuming we stay in the same location. This is an additional $50K we will need to account for. I'm also not sure if the projected $80K we will have saved for college will be enough since I'm pretty adamant about not having student loan debt. Plus, I would like to be able to help with a down payment for a house later on too, but that's not really a need.

DH always thought $2M is ideal. I think somewhere in between would be OK- maybe 1.5 or 1.6?

[beyou]

Maybe a better approach is to not spend too much time chasing a particular number and instead just focus on a balance between enjoying life and a reasonable investment plan.

A lot of people don't get to choose a number.

They get "retired" and don't choose to retire.

Their number is chosen for them.

You may not be able to choose when, true, but you do choose much of your spending/saving along the way. Having a goal you may never achieve does not preclude setting a goal. Still has value.

[SQRT]

When I was working I figured something like $10million would be good. Ended up with much more and glad we did. Been retired for 12 years and have had no problem finding interesting and fun things to do. Unlike many Bogleheads we have increased our spending to match our resources. Will likely leave a good sized legacy and have been very generous givers.

Obviously, it can be easily done for a fraction of this amount but that wasn’t the question. The question used “want” not “need” and everybody defines wants vs needs differently and not really worth debating the distinction.

[goodenyou]

I didn't read through all the posts, so forgive me if this was already said.

It would be interesting to correlate pre-retirement income and "how much money do you want to retire?". Someone who lives large on $1M of yearly income will have a tremendous fixed cost entering retirement. If you are not accustomed to LBYM pre-retirement, that will be difficult to do when you retire. Dismantling your complicated and expensive lifestyle will be difficult.

[SQRT]

I didn't read through all the posts, so forgive me if this was already said.

It would be interesting to correlate pre-retirement income and "how much money do you want to retire?". Someone who lives large on $1M of yearly income will have a tremendous fixed cost entering retirement. If you are not accustomed to LBYM pre-retirement, that will be difficult to do when you retire. Dismantling your complicated and expensive lifestyle will be difficult.

Good points. We had a high income before retirement but obviously given the amount that we ended up with, were still pretty good at LBYM. Many people don’t see a need to LBYM in retirement? As long as you live AT YOUR MEANS that should work out fine . Assuming of course you use a reasonable SWR and have some flexibility in your spending. There is a tremendous range of lifestyles in the US (and on this site).

My lifestyle wouldn’t appeal to many people here. It’s quite complicated but I dont mind that, at least at this stage (age 67). Agree it will be an effort to simplify when the time comes but in the meantime we are having a great time.

[The Wizard]

...Obviously, it can be easily done for a fraction of this amount but that wasn’t the question. The question used “want” not “need”.

Good point.
I never wanted to be a stay at home retiree...