Any pilots here? [as a career]

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Cruiser
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Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by Cruiser »

I have hit my 30s and have come to the realization that while my current career pays well and is comfortable, it is not what I enjoy or love doing. Since I was a child, I have had a passion for flying, but had scratched that off my list when I was younger due to a variety of reasons...Rather, excuses.

I would love to speak to someone in the industry and see if this is a viable career to move into at my age.
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David Jay
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by David Jay »

If you are talking about major airlines then no, there is no viable path to a front seat for someone in their 30s.

The two primary paths are through the military or through the commuter airlines. Military is foreclosed (I tried to get into FOCS at age 28, it was the first time in my life I was told I was "too old").

Commuter airline pay (First Officer) is too low for anyone except a single guy, probably sharing an apartment with a few other single guys. Even there you probably won't get into a right seat without an ATP. So you have to self-fund 1500 hours.

[note: I was never able to make a living in aviation, I have a commercial license and an expired flight instructor certificate]
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ralph124cf
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by ralph124cf »

Do you have your Private Pilots licence yet? If not, go to a smaller local airport and take some lessons. This will allow you to test your passion about flying and give you a handle on costs and time. You will be able to talk to a variety of professional pilots and see what are the costs and benefits of that lifestyle.

Google flight training for your area.

Ralph
barnaclebob
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by barnaclebob »

Keep in mind that single pilot operations for commercial flights will likely be seen within our lifetimes. Maybe even in the next 15 to 20 years.
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David Jay
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by David Jay »

There is going to be quite a pilot shortage (due to retirements and the reduced replacements coming out of the military) in the near term, so there are good prospects for those who are "working their way up". I have just recommended to my 20 year old nephew that he pursue a pilot career. But he is single, living at home. He can afford to work his way through Flight Instructor, commuter right seat, commuter captain and finally into a major airline.
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jharkin
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by jharkin »

I'm not a pilot but I have many pilot friends, who have told me EXACTLY what David Jay explained above. I used to want to get my private ticket for recreational but even that is getting prohibitively expensive for many.

Go watch the you tube channels "Flight Chops" and "stevo1kinevo" for some insight into what flight training and working at the lower levels of the industry is like.
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by Spirit Rider »

I have several friends and acquaintances who are/were airline pilots (including a 777 pilot). Many have given up their lifelong dream of flying for a living, to something else for their family's sake. People wildly overestimate the pay of airline pilots. They hear the high hourly pay a major airline Captain might get paid and multiply that by 40 hours to get the weekly pay and assume everybody makes that. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Pilots typically only get paid for gate to gate time (parking brake -> parking brake). This time usually averages < 20 hours per week with pilots typically averaging 900 - 1000 hours/year. They may get some additional pay/bonuses for training, etc..., but it doesn't amount to a significant amount. They then might have to work an additional 20 unpaid duty hours.

Then consider that pilot pay at commuter airlines may start a little above $20/hour or a little more than $20K/year, with the ability to maybe double that with seniority. Consider that First Officers at the major airlines might start as low as $50K/year and work up from there. Only Captains can make $150K - $200K and maybe more as Senior Captains at legacy airlines with the highest pay scales.

So consider the total facts. You are going to work a full time job, but are only going to get paid for half of the time. You are going to have horrible hours working weekends/holidays and with an average of 80 hours/week away from your family. You are going to start getting paid an amount which In some states/cities you could make more from minimum wage.

Remember your dreams of playing in the MLB, NFL, NBA, etc... You have just about as likely a chance as flying as a Captain at a major airline. Meanwhile, using baseball as an analogy, you are going to toil in the minor leagues, first not making that much more than minimum wage. While watching military pilots bypass you to the majors. Eventually, you make it to the majors, but you are still not in the starting lineup. Maybe, just maybe you are good enough and lucky enough to be one of the few to get to sit in the left seat. Remember, many never get out of the minor leagues.
TravelGeek
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by TravelGeek »

David Jay wrote: Commuter airline pay (First Officer) is too low for anyone except a single guy, probably sharing an apartment with a few other single guys.
Do we know that the OP isn't perhaps married to a high income earner who could help fund this? :happy
Spirit Rider wrote: Then consider that pilot pay at commuter airlines may start a little above $20/hour or a little more than $20K/year, with the ability to maybe double that with seniority.
Since Alaska's regional subsidiary Horizon Air was recently in the news for having to cancel a ton of flights due to a severe shortage of pilots, I looked at what they pay.

Not guaranteeing accurateness, but http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airl ... orizon_air tells me that they pay $40/hour for first year First Officers. $20k sign-on bonus for Q400 new hires.

That said, it would take a while (time and money investment) to get even to that entry level position.

Incidentally, a former coworker of mine left a comfortable position in high tech about ten years ago to follow his passion to become a pilot. Based on his Linkedin profile he must have been 33-35 years old. We are no longer in touch, but I see that his career as a first officer lasted less than three years; he's back in high tech.
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Watty
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by Watty »

It is totally different but I am an amature photographer and I have talked to a number of people that liked photography and have tried making a living doing it, some actually have done it for a while as their main job. Most find that doing things like wedding photographing was not all that enjoyable and it has pretty much made them not enjoy photography anymore. If you have a passion for flying then be careful with trying to make a living doing it since that might zap your passion.

I don't know much about it but you might also look into becoming a drone pilot as a part time job on weekends. I would think that for maybe $10,000 you could get this setup so it it doesn't work out it would not be a life changing amount and you could treat it as a semi-hobby that you might make some money at.
Arena08
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by Arena08 »

I'm presently a military pilot (multi-engine ATP, CFI/CFII), hopefully about to make the transition to a major airline. I will echo the sentiments of David regarding getting into the industry. The most common two ways to get on with a major airline are the regionals or the military. Unfortunately due to your age, the military is out. Regional pay has gone up significantly over the last couple years. With sign on bonuses with some outfits, you are looking at maybe $60k per year. The negative is that those bonuses only last so long, then you go back to the base hourly rate, which isn't the greatest. You would also face a pretty significant expense accruing sufficient flight time to get hired by a regional, unless you do some flight instructing. Even then you would have to pay your way to a Commercial rating.

As far as the majors are concerned, their pay has gone up significantly as well. First year pay is now $70-90 per hour with a lot of the most recently negotiated pilot contracts, so maybe $70-90k the first year. I believe someone mentioned captain pay being in the $150-200,000/year range, and while that was accurate a few years ago, today is a different story. A 15 year captain at the big three, FedEx, SWA, or Alaska now, with 401k, profit sharing, and base pay makes anywhere from $275 to $350,000 per year. So those numbers aren't too bad.

At 30 years old it's definitely not too late to get into the industry (I'm in my 30s as well), but you would face some significant expenses getting all the requisite ratings, and you would be looking at having to work for some time in the regionals, not making the highest of salaries (which I personally think is ridiculous considering regional pilots are flying CRJ-700s and 900s with over 70 passengers on board, they should make more than 30-50k doing it). If you are in a job that you are making decent money in presently, this lower salary may be hard to swallow.

There are other options out there flying corporate, but you're still talking thousands of hours to get into most of those as well. I'm definitely excited about entering the industry, but for someone without ratings currently, you should understand the expense and future job prospects involved. If you have any other specific questions, feel free to ask!
Last edited by Arena08 on Wed May 31, 2023 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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mapleosb
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by mapleosb »

Just read this article this morning:
http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/27/news/co ... index.html
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busdriver
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by busdriver »

Presently in my 41st year as a professional pilot. Some good points have already been made.

If you have no flying experience, then the time and funds to get qualified to meet minimum requirements for hiring will be long and expensive. I started flying at 15 and was hired at 22. Lessons back then were 1/4th the cost they are today.

Living out of a suitcase being away from home half or more of each month is not something many can endure.

From the Horizon Airline link above, 1st year First Officer pay at $40/hr would equate to $3,200/mo for an 80 hour month, (my guess 75 hours would be more realistic). The link goes on to say potential for Captain upgrade at 2.5 years, so say you upgrade in your 3rd year, the same 80 hours would pay $5,920/mo.

Once you get a couple of years left seat experience, (Captain), you become marketable for a major carrier. Should you be able to move from a regional carrier like Horizon to a major like Alaska, United, etc., you will once again start at the bottom of the seniority list and be assigned a position at a domicile that may be anywhere in their system with the possibility of moving across the country.

The career is determined by seniority. As people at the top of the list retire, you move up and that in turn determines which domicile you can hold, what trips you fly, what days off you can hold as well as what seat and what aircraft you can hold, (with a few exceptions, the larger the aircraft, the higher the pay).

When I was hired back in 1976, one needed to be in excellent physical health, (which is proven by an extensive company physical during the interview process), as well as have 20/20 uncorrected vision. I would guess the first point is still valid, not sure if the vision still needs to be 20/20 without glasses though.

So do you have any flying experience? I would guess a minimum requirement would be Commercial Pilot Certificate with Instrument and Multi-Engine ratings, which entails over 200 hours of flying. If an Airline Transport Pilot Certificate is required, then one needs 1500 hours of flying to qualify.

The next ten years or so will see non-stop hiring as geezers like myself are forced to retire at 65, (little over a year before I punch-out). If you think you can get qualified in the near future, then you should have no problem getting hired and having a long career.
Last edited by busdriver on Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Bastiat
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by Bastiat »

While a profession in aviation is probably out at this point, you can make quite a hobby out of it and get just as much, if not more enjoyment.

I'd definitely encourage you to get some lessons and your private ticket.
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by Helo80 »

FWIW - Your question comes up on reddit every once in a while and more or less, the comments from reddit are echoed here.

If you go down this road, it's going to be a very steep and uphill climb costing you tons of money getting those precious flight hours. Plus, you have to consider whatever technological advances may come our way.
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pilotcdc
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by pilotcdc »

Hi! Here's my perspective as a 10-year regional airline first officer...

With the recent regulatory changes, you will need 1500 hours of flight time to apply to an airline. Most pilots obtain this time through flight instructing or other flying jobs like banner towing, or by paying out-of-pocket for the time.

Once you have the time, you can apply to the airlines. The airline business is all about seniority. If you time it right (read: lucky!) your career and quality of life can be great. If not, it can be frustrating. When you're junior, you will be on reserve. That means you are on-call. When someone calls in sick or a maintenance recovery flight needs to go out, crew scheduling will call you and you need to report to the airport, generally, in a couple hours. You may come in for one roundtrip or you might be gone for six days straight...you never really know! When you're junior, you can also expect to work weekends and holidays. As you build seniority, you get a schedule and you can bid what trips you would like and what days you want off. If your timing is good, you will gain seniority quickly. Same goes for going from first officer to captain. The previous numbers stated by Cox3497 of $30-50K a year are accurate for a regional first officer...not enough if I do say so myself!

The major airlines are hiring aggressively due to retirements and growth. We had a major airline captain on our jumpseat recently who said their airline wants to hire as many pilots as they have now in the next three years. For that airline, it's 12K pilots in three years. I don't know if that's physically possible with the amount of simulators that are actually available, but it's good news for those that want to go to a major airline. But, the airline business can also change in an instant. It is very much affected by the overall business cycle and economy. When I was hired at my airline, we were told we would upgrade to captain in two years. Ten years later, due to the economy downturn, the increasing of the retirement age from 60 to 65 and some other factors, I'm wondering why I'm still taking on all this responsibility of transporting 50-76 people safely from one place to the next for practically peanuts!

Spirit Rider used the baseball analogy and it's a good one. Life in the regionals can be grueling. I have a lot of 11-12 hour days where my longest break is 40 minutes (and part of that 40 minutes is getting ready to fly again). But, yes, we do sometimes get that 20-hour layover at some glamorous beach city. Life at the majors is a different ballgame...a better contract, more money, and better quality of life. If the pilot shortage comes to fruition, airline hiring may go back to how it was long ago...where they train you from zero hours to airline pilot in one fell swoop.

I would recommend checking out http://www.jetcareers.com. It's the aviation version of Bogleheads! Also, http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com has the pay rates and company 401k contributions of US airlines for reference.

Hope this helps. I don't think entering this industry in your 30s is a problem, especially with the number of retirements coming up. If you have the dedication, the ambition, and you love to travel it can be a great career.
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Lucky Lemon
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by Lucky Lemon »

Not sure why everybody is assuming that the OP wants to fly for a major airline.

While I agree that making captain for a major is unlikely (not impossible), I think the OP could still end up with a career that was more fulfilling than his current gig. In fact, I think that flying for an airline would kill my passion for flying (hint – not a lot of actual flying).

If the OP has a passion for flight, I would suggest that he or she investigate other areas of aviation - Tour Pilot, Charter Pilot, Flight Instructor, “Bush” Pilot, etc. I know people in each of those roles that are making a darn good living.

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Zonian59
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by Zonian59 »

I have a friend (going back 30 years) who is currently a Senior Captain at Skywest Airlines.
When he began his flying career in his mid 20s, he already had a private and commerical pilot license.
He started out as a courier pilot, then made the jump to airlines. Found trying to get a job with the big airlines harder than the regional airlines, so he wound up with Skywest Airlines. Been with Skywest for 30 years and finds he likes it. Likes being a "bigger fish in a smaller pond" than a "small fish in a big pond".
Also, there's more hands-on flying opportunity (he actually likes flying) on the smaller regional jets compared to the big Boeing 777, where the only hands-on flying time takeoff and landing; otherwise the autopilot does the flying. The regional flight routes are generally shorter, which he prefers and he has more flexibility bidding his routes.

Yes, the pay with the regional airlines isn't as good as the major airlines, but the really top pay is when you're a Captain with the major airlines on the bigger 777 or 747s.

I have another pilot friend who took a different path and is currently a United Airlines 777 Captain on the international routes: After college, he went into the USAF flying AWACS and KC-135 tankers, which is the military version of the Boeing 707 and has four engines. He knew that flying AWACS and KC-135s would give him extensive"heavy" multi-engine time experience by the time he completed his tour of duty and sought work in the airlines. The airlines were very eager to grab him because of his multi-engine jet experience and rating. He also found the transition to commercial pilot easier and became Captain much quicker than had he started out from scratch without that multi-engine jet experience.
tim1999
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by tim1999 »

It will still be a long road to all of the required minimum hours, certificates, and type ratings, but perhaps a second career as a corporate/charter jet pilot could be an option.

There have been (false?) cries about a pilot shortage for years. For awhile I think it was just because the regionals insisted on paying peanuts and weren't attracting applicants. It may finally be becoming real now.
Daryl
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by Daryl »

If anyone is serious about building hours on the cheap, I have a Piper Pawnee you can fly for free! You must be have a high performance endorsement, tail-dragger experience, good stick and rudder skills, and a willingness to be yanked every which way by glider pilots at the other end of the tow rope! Also, we're always looking for CFI-Gs. Plane is based out of N57 (New Garden Airport, Philadelphia)
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by Acepilot »

I also agree with the posts that have already been made. Especially regarding cost, time, luck and travel away from home. Also as mentioned you need to get started and should start lessons and get your private pilot license as soon as possible. That said once you get started see where they journey takes you. It is a multi step process private pilot, Instrument rating, commercial pilot, CFI, ATP.... You may stop along the way or run out of money to continue. If you really love it, keep going toward you dream, you will learn the pros and cons along the way.

I got started in aviation late, mid 40's, mostly because of eyesight not being 20/20 and most aspiring major airline pilots were coming out of military. While I was working this was a good balance, since during the week I could make a descent living and look forward to weekends to fly which is what what I enjoyed. i eventually got my commercial license and CFI. Now I do flight instruction and sightseeing tours part time which pays a few dollars and allows me to keep flying while someone else pays for it. So there are many different opportunities and paths in aviation.

Good luck with your decision, but do start the journey.
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Flymore
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by Flymore »

Part of the ongoing technology advancements Boeing Aircraft Corporation has mentioned eliminating the need for pilots.

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/bo ... next-year/

Now wether or not there is a demand for such aircraft could be a separate discussion, such as would anyone actually get on and fly in such an aircraft.

When in the news Boeing has made such announcements, the response from the industry is silence.
Talisker
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by Talisker »

I am a 777 captain for a major airline.

I started at 18 and hired at 28. Over the years, I have flown with copilots with varied backgrounds ages and experience. Never too late to start.

From the civilian side you can progress through certificates as quickly as you can pay for them. There are accelerated schools that cater to students desiring a quick training footprint and can receive the necessary certificates and ratings in as little as 6 months.

Entry level jobs do not pay well, but after a couple years of regional experience you should be able to move to a well paying company.The industry is cyclical, so timing is everything.

This job has as many downsides as benefits but overall is a great gig.

Go for it.
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by indexonlyplease »

Cruiser wrote:I have hit my 30s and have come to the realization that while my current career pays well and is comfortable, it is not what I enjoy or love doing. Since I was a child, I have had a passion for flying, but had scratched that off my list when I was younger due to a variety of reasons...Rather, excuses.

I would love to speak to someone in the industry and see if this is a viable career to move into at my age.
Maybe make flying a hobby. Go to flight school get time in the air. When you are done you could work part time in something you enjoy but pays crappy. Like flying the banners along the beach in Florida.
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by indexonlyplease »

Flymore wrote:Part of the ongoing technology advancements Boeing Aircraft Corporation has mentioned eliminating the need for pilots.

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/bo ... next-year/

Now wether or not there is a demand for such aircraft could be a separate discussion, such as would anyone actually get on and fly in such an aircraft.

When in the news Boeing has made such announcements, the response from the industry is silence.
Self driving cars, now self flying planes. Time to buy one of those electric bikes to get around. Roads will be dangerous and now the airways.
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by ClevrChico »

I have a friend that made a career change and started training around 30. They are very sharp and seem to love their pilot job.
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by Spirit Rider »

indexonlyplease wrote:Self driving cars, now self flying planes. Time to buy one of those electric bikes to get around. Roads will be dangerous and now the airways.
Call me a luddite, but after 40+ years in IT, some in the military and most in software development. You are never going to see me in a self-driving car, let alone a pilotless plane. I like my errors done by humans not software. I don't even like to fly Airbus.
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by backslash2718 »

Not much to add on besides go ahead and start lessons. You won't know if you like flying until you try. Also nice to see so many fellow Boglehead pilots.
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by LadyGeek »

This thread is now in the Personal Finance (Not Investing) forum (career advice).
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SquawkIdent
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by SquawkIdent »

Not much to add as the pilots here have given you some excellent advice. I have many friends that are pilots and are at various stages of their career. I can attest that all the advice that you have been given here about the career is spot on.
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by jumppilot »

I am a 737 First Officer for a major U.S. Airline

I love my job and enjoy the benefits is has. I've had Guinness in Dublin, Schweinshaxe in Berlin, Okonomiyaki in Osaka, flown over the D-Day beaches on a clear day, observed the most vivid Northern Lights I've ever seen while over Greenland on a dark winter night, flown through the weather bands of a Pacific Tropical Typhoon and countless other exciting things. I like being a member of a 10,000+ pilot group - I truly am a cog in the wheel and the flexibility that offers with schedule trading is huge. I've only met my boss a few times, as he works in the office and I'm out flying the line. I doubt he even knows who I am. My airline has aircraft ranging from a 737 to wide bodies - you have an opportunity to switch between fleets depending on where your interest lie - narrow body bouncing around the country, wide body to Asia and everything in between, back and forth as your career progresses and your interests shift. It's quite possible that the 737 you flew from DFW-ORD is piloted by someone who used to be a wide body Captain who wanted to get away from jet lag for awhile.

The problem is, everything I describe (and more) is at the top of the pilot food chain, so to speak.

It's a very difficult climb to the top and one I'm glad I made in my 20s, when I was single with no kids. I started flying when I was 16 and was hired by my current airline when I was 26. For those 10 years, my life was flying. I went to college for aviation, I lived close to the airport when I was working for a regional so I could easily pick up extra trips, I traveled around the country for recruiting fairs (on my own dime) to get my break. And as a previous poster said, timing is everything. My efforts would have been for nothing had the airlines not been hiring when I was ready to go.

Everything I describe would be very difficult to do in your 30s if you have a family depending on you.

However, I currently have two friends in their 30s who, after listening to me describe my career, decided to become career changers. They are at one of those fast track schools that can get you the required ratings and airline-required experience in about 2 years. If you are going to be a career changer I would recommend doing that. If you can get everything done ASAP (and be "airline qualified) by the time you're in your mid 30s you have an excellent shot at having a great career. The problem people have is they do everything at their local airport and next thing they know they're 40+ years old and just completed their instrument rating.

Oh, and this industry is very cyclical. Next year I could be working at Home Depot rambling to myself about how I used to be a pilot. No one would believe my but I hope they will still be nice.
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by LadyGeek »

"Every boy?" I beg to differ. I've had a Private Pilot VFR rating since the mid 1980's and have been interested in flying since I was about your son's age. :)

What stopped me from going into the business? Money and time. You can only go so far when your only opportunity to fly is on the weekend. After going to the same places every time, you get complacent. Being complacent when flying is 100% guaranteed to shorten your life. Really. So, I stopped.

I still have the interest, but won't take it up again until I can do this in a safe manner.

Except for the 15 years (mid 1990's+) I went fly-out fishing for vacation in Quebec. Man, it sure is fun to fly a Cessna 180 float plane for a few minutes. Also, a DeHavilland Beaver. All of this was done in the right-hand seat with strict guidance from the pilot. No landings. (It's legal to fly, you just can't log the time.)

BTW, did you ever watch a float plane take off? They rock the boat until it's on one pontoon, then lift off from there. Why? Less gas...
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Watty
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by Watty »

letsgobobby wrote:not to hijack too much...

but my 7 (!) year old son wants to be a pilot. so does every boy. my son has a few things going for him (in my mind, knowing nothing about the industry). He's bright. He is cautious, very organized, and precise, and never takes unnecessary risks. He is interested in the Air Force but not flying fighter jets. And he doesn't wear glasses, only one in our family who doesn't need them.

Is entry to the Air Force Academy with a long term plan to be a commercial airline pilot feasible? will it be in ten years? will airplanes fly autonomously?
My brother went through the Air Force Academy and became a military pilot but then went on a made a career out of the military. I don't recall all the details as I recall once he was through the Academy, he had other additional training, had pilots training, and had enough years as a pilot to get good experience then it really made a lot of sense to stay in the Air Force and get 20 years to get retirement.

He stayed in the Air Force a lot longer than that but some of his classmates did retire after 20 years to become commercial pilots.

I don't know what the percentage is but a lot of Air Force Academy graduates do not become a pilots. If you become a fighter or helicopter pilot becoming an airline pilot would require a different path.

Going to a military academy is really hard even if you can get in. You might eventually end up as a commercial pilot but I would question going there unless really want to be in the Air Force.

You should check on it but I would assume that there may be other ways to become an Air Force pilot without going through the Air Force Academy.
letsgobobby
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by letsgobobby »

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pilot_error
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by pilot_error »

Watty wrote: I don't recall all the details as I recall once he was through the Academy, he had other additional training, had pilots training,
To add some detail, the Air Force Academy is a 4 year Bachelor's Degree program that has aviation extracurricular activities. All the pilot training is completed after graduating. The purpose is to commission officers for the Air Force.
Watty wrote:I don't know what the percentage is but a lot of Air Force Academy graduates do not become a pilots.
50-60% do not become pilots, most are not medically qualified (eyesight) or do not want to.
Watty wrote:You should check on it but I would assume that there may be other ways to become an Air Force pilot without going through the Air Force Academy.
Age requirements for the Academy are "less than 23 years old", so not for the OP. Roughly 40% of Air Force pilots went to USAFA, the rest are ROTC or OTS.
letsgobobby wrote:Is entry to the Air Force Academy with a long term plan to be a commercial airline pilot feasible? will it be in ten years? will airplanes fly autonomously?
It takes 17 years to go from high school graduate to commercial pilot through USAFA and the Air Force. Very feasible, and hard compared to only going to Harvard or only enlisting, USAFA is doing both at the same time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDrxSqfh1Vk ...you do this and then have Calc III the following week.

As a pilot, I don't promote hijacking so please PM me if you'd like to hear more pros and cons of the Air Force Academy, or maybe a new thread as there is lots of financial perks of free college and guaranteed job...but it isn't an option for the OP.
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by jrmillions »

I have a friend that is 35 years old. He made a decision in high school to become a pilot like his father. So he attended Arizona State University to earn a degree in aviation and obtaining the first 3 basic pilot ratings:single engine, multi engine and instrument. After graduating, he joined the Air Force Reserve and learned to fly C130s. This is where he received the bulk of his training and building hours. He stated that is was very challenging. Once completed with initial AF training, he flew for a cargo company for a few years until getting a job with one of the two major parcel companies. He has a family and a very nice living with great benefits. He still flies in the AF Reserves but transitioned to the C17.
I know this info doesn't help the initial poster since he is too old to join AF, but it could help a younger person who is thinking of becoming a pilot.
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by Mel Lindauer »

If you're a veteran, the GI Bill can help fund the start of your aviation career.

While I had to pay for my private ticket, the GI Bill paid the lion's share of my commercial, instrument, multi-engine, seaplane rating and my CFIA&I-SMEL. I used the last part of my GI Bill working on a Lear type rating. Not sure if that helps the OP, but if not, hopefully it might be helpful to another veteran.

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Best Regards - Mel | | Semper Fi
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by WS1 »

This post is equal parts advice and therapy.

Establishing some credibility

Spent my whole childhood loving aviation; by high school graduation I wanted to be an airline pilot, and within the next two years became convinced I wanted to fly for a living. This was helped along by the fact that a few friends’ fathers and a 2nd cousin were airline pilots. I was convinced that because I loved being in and around planes that I should obviously fly for a living. I started taking lessons after my freshman year of college. I eventually decided I didn’t want to be a commercial pilot and never completed my private pilot. I am currently in profession I like and think is important but a job that is boring and anything but. My current “if I win the lottery dream” is to buy a helicopter or sea plane and fly charter flights, but only when I feel like it, flying the rich (or imprudent) in and out of Manhattan in the summer and around the Caribbean in the winter.


Therapy

I walked away because I was simultaneously struggling with the flying lessons and learning about the downsides of life as a commercial pilot. The long days/short nights, airport food, layoffs, cost of training/years of poverty wages really scared me off. I’d wager if I was a little more mature and/or was taking lessons full time I would have found a way through that sticky spot. I didn’t even complete the private pilot training because I just assumed I wouldn’t be able to fly regularly enough to be safe, forget the prospect of improving. Since abandoning the path I’ve been skydiving, hang gliding, paragliding, and flown in a sailplane. I now know there are many more ways to spend time off the ground without doing it full time for a paycheck and for a lot less cash than renting a Cessna for a day.

Advice

Can your current life support the hobby of flying airplanes (spouse/kids/cash/work schedule)?
Would a job change without massive retraining allow you to enjoy your day to day existence and fly airplanes for fun?
Explore areas of aviation that don’t require a private pilot/light sport pilot license. Those few minutes under the canopy during that skydive shifted my perception of flying, and the second that hang glider lifted off the ground I said to the instructor “holy shit, this is what I’ve been looking for”. Sailplanes, hang gliders, paragliders, and trikes (ultra-lights) can be a less expensive (and totally different) way to participate. Check out the Soaring Society of America, U.S. Hang and Paragliding Association, and the Experimental Aviation Association to find where to sample.

If you really want to be a commercial pilot stalk the internet to see if the lifestyle and salary progression is something you want and sprint through your private rating before you have chance to question anything. There’s a tremendous variety of flying jobs out there in the world and I recommend researching them all.
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Re: Any pilots here? [as a career]

Post by dave_k »

Spirit Rider wrote:
indexonlyplease wrote:Self driving cars, now self flying planes. Time to buy one of those electric bikes to get around. Roads will be dangerous and now the airways.
Call me a luddite, but after 40+ years in IT, some in the military and most in software development. You are never going to see me in a self-driving car, let alone a pilotless plane. I like my errors done by humans not software. I don't even like to fly Airbus.
Both cars and planes are likely to become much safer without humans operating them. Human error won't get much better, at least not nearly as quickly as AI will. Cars have more room for improvement than commercial airlines though, since the bar for getting a driver's license is so much lower than a job as a commercial airline pilot.
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