Do you guys accept first Job offer or negotiate?

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sksbog
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Do you guys accept first Job offer or negotiate?

Post by sksbog » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:19 pm

After struggling and trying to switch for past few months, I got couple of job offers.
Yeah, lot of hard work, countless hours of studying and phone interviews gone into this.
One company, that I am not interested in joining , I will refuse to join.

The second company, did a very good first offer ( I want to jump on it).
Do you guys just accept first offer or try to negotiate, maybe extra 5K thrown in or maybe a sign-in bonus?
How do you ask for it?

Thanks

Jags4186
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Re: Do you guys accept first Job offer or negotiate?

Post by Jags4186 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:23 pm

Just ask. Worst they do is say no. Very rarely would a company pull an offer for asking for more and you wouldn't want to work for a company that does.

KlangFool
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Re: Do you guys accept first Job offer or negotiate?

Post by KlangFool » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:28 pm

sksbog wrote:After struggling and trying to switch for past few months, I got couple of job offers.
Yeah, lot of hard work, countless hours of studying and phone interviews gone into this.
One company, that I am not interested in joining , I will refuse to join.

The second company, did a very good first offer ( I want to jump on it).
Do you guys just accept first offer or try to negotiate, maybe extra 5K thrown in or maybe a sign-in bonus?
How do you ask for it?

Thanks
sksbog,

The second company, did a very good first offer ( I want to jump on it).

1) Did you tell them your current salary?

2) How do you know that it is a very good first offer? Is it much higher than your current salary? Or, it is much higher than the market rate?

<< Do you guys just accept first offer or try to negotiate, maybe extra 5K thrown in or maybe a sign-in bonus?>>

3) I do not know your salary range. So, I have no idea what 5K meant to you? To answer the question, I would need to know whether it is 5% more? 10% more? or 20% more?

4) Ditto on sign-in bonus.

The short answer to your question is in general, I know the offer that I am willing to accept and they are willing to pay. If the offer is good, I accept. If the offer is too far off, I would not waste my time. If it is close enough but not good enough, I negotiate.

KlangFool

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ClevrChico
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Re: Do you guys accept first Job offer or negotiate?

Post by ClevrChico » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:31 pm

A little negotiation is usually ok. (5% over offer)

A large ask over their offer won't go over well. (15% over offer)

Asking for a ridiculous amount might make you the water cooler joke of upper management for a couple weeks. (2x offer)

There are lots of variables. That is just my experience from hiring individual contributors. I'm sure highly sought after employees have much more freedom to negotiate.
Last edited by ClevrChico on Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MathWizard
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Re: Do you guys accept first Job offer or negotiate?

Post by MathWizard » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:33 pm

sksbog wrote:After struggling and trying to switch for past few months, I got couple of job offers.
Yeah, lot of hard work, countless hours of studying and phone interviews gone into this.
One company, that I am not interested in joining , I will refuse to join.

The second company, did a very good first offer ( I want to jump on it).
Do you guys just accept first offer or try to negotiate, maybe extra 5K thrown in or maybe a sign-in bonus?
How do you ask for it?

Thanks
I negotiated 12.5% higher, but the offer was really a low-ball offer.
I probably should have gone higher, but my son had just been born, and
we needed the money.

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Mlm
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Re: Do you guys accept first Job offer or negotiate?

Post by Mlm » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:59 pm

I once negotiated 15% over offer but I lied about what I was currently making so was actually 30%
20 minutes later they came back with .. you're hired

It was the best job I ever had and it lasted 27 years

I was young and had a lot of guts back then

arsenalfan
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Re: Do you guys accept first Job offer or negotiate?

Post by arsenalfan » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:05 pm

What is the supply vs demand for your position?
I took my first (and only) job. Ideal geography, terms, people, slightly low pay first 2 years.
10 years in and having hired 10 colleagues, I know that we think ill of ones trying to negotiate terms.
We rescind and move onto the next, since we have interested folks.
Supply qualified applicants>Demand, so we move onto the next.

MotoTrojan
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Re: Do you guys accept first Job offer or negotiate?

Post by MotoTrojan » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:07 pm

My biggest regret in hiring is not countering on my first full time gig. I had interned, and they offered me a $2K above usual college grad pay boost for my internship performance. I wish I had asked for more equity, as it has paid off well (left after 2 years with almost $100K).

But it worked out and was my dream job at the time. Current job is 40% more pay and I negotiated 16% above initial offer (took cash over more equity to hedge start-up risk). Simply asked for 50% more equity, they said "how about 10% more salary, what's more important" and I countered; then we shook hands. Bit different though as it was over dinner/wine with founders and an investor.

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F150HD
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Re: Do you guys accept first Job offer or negotiate?

Post by F150HD » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:43 pm

Recent thread worth reading. Some posts on pg 2 come to mind:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=220996#p3405508

TIAX
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Re: Do you guys accept first Job offer or negotiate?

Post by TIAX » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:56 pm

arsenalfan wrote:What is the supply vs demand for your position?
I took my first (and only) job. Ideal geography, terms, people, slightly low pay first 2 years.
10 years in and having hired 10 colleagues, I know that we think ill of ones trying to negotiate terms.
We rescind and move onto the next, since we have interested folks.
Supply qualified applicants>Demand, so we move onto the next.
OP, don't be discouraged by this and make your counteroffer. This is extremely rare and, as someone mentioned above, any company that would rescind based on something so accepted as negotiating salary, is a terrible place to work.

hmw
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Re: Do you guys accept first Job offer or negotiate?

Post by hmw » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:06 pm

I would negotiate a little. Whether to ask for 5% more or 15% more will depend on many things.

When I was looking for my first real job, I was initially offered 260k after the 1st interview, which was a bit of low ball offer in my field. I told the recruiter that I wasn't interested in coming for a second interview. We ended up agreeing to 300k. I heard that the same employer was offering the same sub-300k salary to new grads several years after I was hired and many new grads weren't negotiating and were accepting the 1st offer.

tibbitts
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Re: Do you guys accept first Job offer or negotiate?

Post by tibbitts » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:08 am

Remember that you're seeing survivorship bias at its best on Bogleheads. The people who asked for more and had that offer pulled, then spent the rest of their careers flipping burgers, aren't here to tell you about it.

I'm not saying don't try to negotiate, just telling you that you're not getting representative replies here for the population in general.

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Pajamas
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Re: Do you guys accept first Job offer or negotiate?

Post by Pajamas » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:14 am

You don't necessarily have to name a particular number if the offer is already reasonable, you can even just ask if there is any flexibility with the salary and benefits or room to increase it right away. If you can point out particular reasons why you are especially qualified and worth the upper end of the range, that's even better. Initial salary can be very important as cost of living increases and bonuses may be figured as a percentage of current salary and it really adds up over time. If you don't ask for more, you certainly aren't going to get it.

arsenalfan
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Re: Do you guys accept first Job offer or negotiate?

Post by arsenalfan » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:24 am

TIAX wrote:
arsenalfan wrote:What is the supply vs demand for your position?
I took my first (and only) job. Ideal geography, terms, people, slightly low pay first 2 years.
10 years in and having hired 10 colleagues, I know that we think ill of ones trying to negotiate terms.
We rescind and move onto the next, since we have interested folks.
Supply qualified applicants>Demand, so we move onto the next.
OP, don't be discouraged by this and make your counteroffer. This is extremely rare and, as someone mentioned above, any company that would rescind based on something so accepted as negotiating salary, is a terrible place to work.
Can't tell you how rare it is, or common. IMHO just supply vs demand. Ours is the only practice in the area offering full partner in 3 years and we get tons of applicants/it's a great place to work! Your company, I have no idea.
Our situation is that we interviewed 15 for 10 spots. We offered 10 positions - 8 accepted, 2 took about 3 weeks to get back to us, lawyer reviewing details, quibbling over $5k relocation amount, etc etc. In the interim, the other 5 applicants were champing at the bit. We rescinded after not compromising terms after 3 weeks, afraid to lose the others on the hook. We extended offers and hired 2 more.
The 2 we rescinded joined local area hospitals as employees, no partnership. One keeps applying to us which I interpret as dissatisfaction. The other one's group was dissolved when the hospital replaced everyone with a national group.
YMMV, not trying to discourage. Heck, follow TIAXs advice and let us know how it goes!

chinto
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Re: Do you guys accept first Job offer or negotiate?

Post by chinto » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:21 am

In general the only times you have leverage with an employer is at initial hire time and when you have an offer in hand from another employer.

Angelus359
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Re: Do you guys accept first Job offer or negotiate?

Post by Angelus359 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:28 am

A few weeks ago I was laid off at my last government job. I was making 35k

I applied at a job in corporate-land

They asked me what I was looking for, for salary

I said 60k

They called me back, saying it was too low

Offered around 80k after bonuses (10% annual)

I said that's great

I got really confused with how this negotiation went since it was very much backwards
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mako171
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Re: Do you guys accept first Job offer or negotiate?

Post by mako171 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:12 am

To the posters debating a rescinded job offer: Being a straight forward negotiator is one thing. Quibbling over $5k in what sounds like a highly compensated position is another. I agree that a rescinded offer for a reasonable negotiation seems extreme. In my circumstances, any salary negotiations during a hiring process happened at the stage of the process where the person I was communicating with could make it happen. So it got hammered out in about 5 min of conversation.

To the poster whose company offered more than he asked for. That has happened to me too!

LawyersGunsAndMoney
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Re: Do you guys accept first Job offer or negotiate?

Post by LawyersGunsAndMoney » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:00 am

arsenalfan wrote:What is the supply vs demand for your position?
I took my first (and only) job. Ideal geography, terms, people, slightly low pay first 2 years.
10 years in and having hired 10 colleagues, I know that we think ill of ones trying to negotiate terms.
We rescind and move onto the next, since we have interested folks.
Supply qualified applicants>Demand, so we move onto the next.
Seems like an odd way to approach hiring. If you were more forthcoming about fixed, non-negotiable salary in the early stages of hiring, you wouldn't waste time (yours and theirs) taking candidates who want more than you're offering into later rounds, not to mention all of the offer letters you have to prepare only to rescind.

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JDCarpenter
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Re: Do you guys accept first Job offer or negotiate?

Post by JDCarpenter » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:05 am

It all depends. Here is anecdata:

I didn't counter on job offers (first one was biglaw associate, another about 10 years ago, we just negotiated to a mutually acceptable structure over lunch); DW did both times (private practice doc and she was in demand).

Son and daughter-in-law in NorCal have every time. (She had good success countering google on her last transition, as various groups within the company were competing for her.)

Son in DC didn't--honors law program at IRS; basically nonnegotiable ...

Youngest son and daughter-in-law didn't at first jobs in big-city flyover country, successfully did at second (accountants).
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Watty
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Re: Do you guys accept first Job offer or negotiate?

Post by Watty » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:25 am

I worked with computers and one thing I would do as part of job negotiations would be to ask for a commitment for additional training as part of a job offer instead of additional money. I felt that came off as being more positive and that I really wanted to excel at the job. At least in computers career wise that additional training can have a big payback later on.

One thing that I would also do was to ask how they came up with the amount of a job offer.

Some companies don't like to talk about it but often for a job title there is a pay range that HR sets where a person could be paid say, $80,000 to $100,000 for a position. If you can find that out then you could ask what it would take to be moved up in that pay range and to have a review in six months after you start the job instead of waiting a year. If they say you were at the very low end of the pay range then you may be able to make a good argument as to why you should be higher in the pay range instead of just saying that you want more money. If you are already at the top of the pay range then there may be little room for advancement at that company without getting a promotion to a higher paying job.

rashad3000
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Re: Do you guys accept first Job offer or negotiate?

Post by rashad3000 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:28 am


ryoung
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Re: Do you guys accept first Job offer or negotiate?

Post by ryoung » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:35 am

I believe in knowing your market and always asking for a little above it. There is nothing like that feeling when you ask for a certain salary, and they agree. You know you've left something on the table.

I think it's a big difference negotiating salary on your first professional job, versus doing it later after you have a successful track record. As your recommendations grow, you can grow your ask pretty considerably.

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DaftInvestor
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Re: Do you guys accept first Job offer or negotiate?

Post by DaftInvestor » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:41 am

LawyersGunsAndMoney wrote:
arsenalfan wrote:What is the supply vs demand for your position?
I took my first (and only) job. Ideal geography, terms, people, slightly low pay first 2 years.
10 years in and having hired 10 colleagues, I know that we think ill of ones trying to negotiate terms.
We rescind and move onto the next, since we have interested folks.
Supply qualified applicants>Demand, so we move onto the next.
Seems like an odd way to approach hiring. If you were more forthcoming about fixed, non-negotiable salary in the early stages of hiring, you wouldn't waste time (yours and theirs) taking candidates who want more than you're offering into later rounds, not to mention all of the offer letters you have to prepare only to rescind.
I was thinking the same thing. When I make an offer to someone I feel more-than-fair and I'm not willing to negotiate I simply state that and leave no room for them to come back asking for more. "I hope you will agree that this a very generous offer even for your level of expertise and the current market. I want to let you know that its as high as I am able to go. Please let me know if you agree so I will know whether or not I need to move on to other candidates."

arsenalfan
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Re: Do you guys accept first Job offer or negotiate?

Post by arsenalfan » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:07 am

DaftInvestor wrote:
LawyersGunsAndMoney wrote:
arsenalfan wrote:What is the supply vs demand for your position?
I took my first (and only) job. Ideal geography, terms, people, slightly low pay first 2 years.
10 years in and having hired 10 colleagues, I know that we think ill of ones trying to negotiate terms.
We rescind and move onto the next, since we have interested folks.
Supply qualified applicants>Demand, so we move onto the next.
Seems like an odd way to approach hiring. If you were more forthcoming about fixed, non-negotiable salary in the early stages of hiring, you wouldn't waste time (yours and theirs) taking candidates who want more than you're offering into later rounds, not to mention all of the offer letters you have to prepare only to rescind.
I was thinking the same thing. When I make an offer to someone I feel more-than-fair and I'm not willing to negotiate I simply state that and leave no room for them to come back asking for more. "I hope you will agree that this a very generous offer even for your level of expertise and the current market. I want to let you know that its as high as I am able to go. Please let me know if you agree so I will know whether or not I need to move on to other candidates."
To OP: sorry for being a distraction here, was trying to provide perspective from other side.
Figure out your BATNA (seems like you'd take that job offer as is), ask for what you want, if they say no, just accept the job. In a clear and quick timely manner. You're getting advice from folks how have negotiated far more than me (again only 1 job) so they're more than experienced.
In our situation they kept asking for more and we were clear it was a boilerplate, non negotiable deal with 3 week deadline. 3 times via concise email. When the time expired, we moved on because others were knocking at our door.
It was frustrating for both parties: for us because they were good candidates but just didn't seem to get the message that was clearly communicated . For them because of what happened in their eventual alternative jobs, and continued communication from that one woman who wishes she'd taken it.
Let us know what you do and how it turns out!
Last edited by arsenalfan on Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

BW1985
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Re: Do you guys accept first Job offer or negotiate?

Post by BW1985 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:10 am

arsenalfan wrote:What is the supply vs demand for your position?
I took my first (and only) job. Ideal geography, terms, people, slightly low pay first 2 years.
10 years in and having hired 10 colleagues, I know that we think ill of ones trying to negotiate terms.
We rescind and move onto the next, since we have interested folks.
Supply qualified applicants>Demand, so we move onto the next.
If this is your inefficient hiring process then I would be glad to have you 'rescind' your offer and avoid working for you. My only regret would have been wasting my time with your hiring process.

OP: My first job out of college I did not negotiate, I had no leverage and was happy to start my career.

My next two roles I negotiated salary, bonus and vacation time.
"Squirrels figured out how to save eons ago. They buried acorns. Some, they dug up, for food. Others, they let to sprout, in new oak trees. We could learn from squirrels." -john94549

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Re: Do you guys accept first Job offer or negotiate?

Post by cadreamer2015 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:18 am

I've often found that I could negotiate a week of additional vacation time, if the standard policy of the new job for new hires would be less vacation time at my old job. I've done this 3 times out of three attempts over my career in the past 20+ years. Once I was able to negotiate an extra $5,000 in salary when moving from a moderate cost of living location to a very high cost of living location. They had already offered me a 20% salary increase and this got me to a 25% salary increase.
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arsenalfan
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Re: Do you guys accept first Job offer or negotiate?

Post by arsenalfan » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:26 am

BW1985 wrote:
arsenalfan wrote:What is the supply vs demand for your position?
I took my first (and only) job. Ideal geography, terms, people, slightly low pay first 2 years.
10 years in and having hired 10 colleagues, I know that we think ill of ones trying to negotiate terms.
We rescind and move onto the next, since we have interested folks.
Supply qualified applicants>Demand, so we move onto the next.
If this is your inefficient hiring process then I would be glad to have you 'rescind' your offer and avoid working for you. My only regret would have been wasting my time with your hiring process.

OP: My first job out of college I did not negotiate, I had no leverage and was happy to start my career.

My next two roles I negotiated salary, bonus and vacation time.
"Inefficient hiring process" aside (see my f/u post) , it seems your advice to OP agrees with supply/demand: first job no leverage=take it. Next jobs presumably you had more demand so could negotiate.

OP I think the hard part is knowing where you are in the supply/demand curve. You say after a lot of hard work, you finally have a good offer. And most here are saying ask for a little more, based on their experiences. I agree, if they say final offer, be prepared to then act.

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