Should I buy this house?

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jeffh19
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Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:23 pm

Should I buy this house?

Post by jeffh19 » Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:32 pm

I'll try to keep the main details at the top and quick as I can to the point, and I'll try to put the other crap towards the bottom, I have a tendency to give a lot of details and ramble lol

House lists for 280k (Originally listed at 293.5k 6 weeks ago, price has been dropped 3x)
Taxes will probably be 7k (Currently $6500 assessed at being worth 255k)
Income will probably be about 145k this year, was 123k last year and 113k the year before that. I'm about at my peak income that I can hit, I will stay around this income every year as I have 2 full time jobs at 33 an hour with a some overtime here and there. I usually take home about 7k or a more a month, after taxes and 401k, health insurance etc. This is before the 1k I auto deposit in my brokerage every month
I currently max out my 401k, worth 38k or so
Max my Roth IRA every year, worth 58k or so
Currently do $1000 a month to VTSAX in brokerage (so this brings real take home at about ~6k + without changing anything)
I have ~ $110k in my brokerage (Mostly in Total stock market, some in SP500 and a little in international and a small amount in AAPL/GOOG)
Almost 50k in checking/savings (this includes my emergency fund)

Current expenses:
$700 Rent
$100 Electric Bill (only utility I have to pay)
$80 Car Insurance
$10 Renters insurance
$65 Internet
Zero debt of any kind
$955 Total assuming I'm not forgetting anything

House costs:
~$1500 mortgage (15 year, 216k financed w/ 20% downpayment for a 270k cost)
~$580 Taxes (assuming tax will go up to 7k or so)
~$75 Home Insurance (estimate based on rules of thumb on how to estimate them)
~$175 utilities (rough guess, haven't seen bills yet)
~$65 Internet
$2395 Total assuming I"m not forgetting anything, these are mostly estimates

I want to do a 15 year loan, got a pre approval for a 3.125% rate. I want to do 20% down to avoid PMI. I'm thinking I can buy the house for 265k or so, maybe 5k for closing costs, so 270k or so. Initially when I started making a good income and the market was down, I threw all my money in the market and rode it all up, planning to use it for a downpayment whenever I needed it. I've thought a lot more lately about leaving as much money as I can in my brokerage as over time that money should grow by quite a bit more than the 3.125%, so I'd only put down 20% and keep the rest in the market. I'd also prefer to buy a house and not have to lower or stop any of my savings and investments, but that maybe unrealistic especially for a house that costs this much and wanting to do a 15 year. I guess the rule of thumb is no more than 25% of your net/take home pay for a mortgage payment, taxes and insurance. Not sure if that's supposed to be before or after retirement


I have no debt of any kind, although after buying a house I want to buy a new Corvette for 70k or so. I'm a massive car guy and I'm basically buying a house to get a 3 car garage. I'm huge into saving, but cursed with the car guy thing too. It's so anti-boglehead and flies in the face of everything I've been taught my entire life but it's what I enjoy and the one thing in life I really want to spend money on. If I don't do that then basically I'm not enjoying all the money I'm making and saving it all for 20-50 years in the future and who knows if I'll make it that far or not. I work with the elderly/sick and see a lot of unplanned events/early deaths that would/could totally destroy the idea of this wonderful early retirement I have with lots of cars and traveling etc. So I don't want to have something bad happen and look back and think I saved all this money for nothing and I never really enjoyed like I should have. Not that it will bother me but hopefully I won't get too many lectures about it being stupid to spend a ton of money on cars, I already know it's a horrible financial decision and I am scared to drop that much on cars because I know it's dumb. If I wasn't a huge car guy, I'd probably buy a house half this expensive. I do love nice houses, and do want something with curb appeal. I need a 3 car garage and the problem is that there are no cheap houses with 3 car garages. I've been looking at houses up to 300k, and been looking in the area I want to live basically for 2 years for a house. There are rarely any houses with a 3 car under 250k, and the ones that are are very boring and blah and don't have other things I really want in a house like a basement, fenced in back yard, nice kitchen etc. If a house does magically fit all my criteria for a decent price, it sells immediately.

I'm 32, I live with my GF who I'm thinking will be a long-term thing, but you never know. I work 2 full-time jobs, I work 7 days a week usually 80-90 hours a week. My girlfriend pays half the rent and half the electric bill. She is currently working 2 jobs as well. She has a regular M-F job making about 30k, and then a job doing homecare on the weekends making another 12k or so. She's just starting an accelerated school program for a Bach. in HR, could do a Masters beyond that, who knows. It's my hope that in a couple-few years she can bring home at least a solid 60-70k, and that we can both stop working so much but still have a similar income. I've taught her a lot about finances since we've been dating and she's been working very hard at paying off all of her debt and saving money. She hasn't had a lot of extra money lately due to this, but I'm hoping she could pay more when I get a house, probably 500 or 600 bucks a month I guess. Not really counting on this for my situation though.



So anyway.....
Your thoughts? I Make good money, work my ass off, save my ass off and the only money I ever spend is to go to concerts/events throughout the year. Obviously I can afford the house easily if I use all the money in my brokerage/banks for a huge downpayment, and/or decrease my 401k contributions or brokerage auto deposits. I'd love to be able to comfortably afford this house without changing all my current savings amounts, as I want to retire at 50ish, but especially considering I want a new Corvette and a new daily driver soon, affording this house without changing my 401k contributions/brokerage savings/dumping all my brokerage funds doesn't seem like the best idea and makes me uncomfortable sometimes which should tell me no, but OTOH spending any money makes me feel like that sometimes and I want to buy a house so I'm going to have that feeling no matter what I think unless I manage to find a screaming deal on the perfect house.

So what should I do, what would you do? Love to hear everyone's thought process and point of view on this.

I'm so sorry about the length of this lol

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Devil's Advocate
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by Devil's Advocate » Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:49 pm

I don't think you should buy this house.

You need to budget on your one job. Working 80 to 90 hours a week is going to freaking kill you.

Life is too short to work that many hours and definitely. I do admire your work ethic though.

DA

jeffh19
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by jeffh19 » Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:54 pm

Devil's Advocate wrote:I don't think you should buy this house.

You need to budget on your one job. Working 80 to 90 hours a week is going to freaking kill you.

Life is too short to work that many hours and definitely. I do admire your work ethic though.

DA
I've always been a workaholic. I've been working 70-90+ hours a week for a couple of years now. In my teens I worked two part time jobs, later on I worked at least 50 hours every single week and another job I worked 60-70...The money keeps me motivated, and I'm doing my best to have a nice balance of doing things I want to do in life like go to every concert I want to, big car events throughout the year and spend as much time with my GF and family as I can. The goal is to not have to do it as much though, hopefully my GFs potential massive pay increase after she goes through school will allow me to do that, but your average normal week I'd still probably work at least 60 hours or so. Hard for me to pass on the money.

Also a relative I looked up to at an early age told me- "You love what you do, you never work a day in your life" I enjoy what I do, I never dread getting up and going to work. It's just something I get up and do every day. :)

Traveler
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by Traveler » Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:02 pm

I've never understood (nor frankly believed) when people say they work 80-90 hours a week for a prolonged period of time. Doing the math using 85, that is 12 hours every single day. Assume seven hours of sleep and you're left with five hours a day to commute, grocery shop, clean the house, shower, exercise and socialize. You must be much more organized than me to fit all that in and have the energy to work a long day, every single day. How do you do it?

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Watty
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by Watty » Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:12 pm

jeffh19 wrote: I'd probably buy a house half this expensive. I do love nice houses, and do want something with curb appeal. I need a 3 car garage and the problem is that there are no cheap houses with 3 car garages. I've been looking at houses up to 300k, and been looking in the area I want to live basically for 2 years for a house. There are rarely any houses with a 3 car under 250k,
Look at buying a house with a two car garage on a large lot for $150K and add an additional garage, or even a separate custom workshop for your cars. The saving on the property taxes alone would pay for the addition in a reasonable amount of time.
Traveler wrote:I've never understood (nor frankly believed) when people say they work 80-90 hours a week for a prolonged period of time. Doing the math using 85, that is 12 hours every single day. Assume seven hours of sleep and you're left with five hours a day to commute, grocery shop, clean the house, shower, exercise and socialize. You must be much more organized than me to fit all that in and have the energy to work a long day, every single day. How do you do it?
In addition I would add that it is hard to maintain a good relationship while you are working that many hours. If you have kids someday that would be an even bigger time issue.

jeffh19
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by jeffh19 » Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:16 pm

Traveler wrote:I've never understood (nor frankly believed) when people say they work 80-90 hours a week for a prolonged period of time. Doing the math using 85, that is 12 hours every single day. Assume seven hours of sleep and you're left with five hours a day to commute, grocery shop, clean the house, shower, exercise and socialize. You must be much more organized than me to fit all that in and have the energy to work a long day, every single day. How do you do it?
I work M T W F 10 hours a day at one job, and on those days I work 3ish at the other job. On Th Sat Sun I work 8-13 hours at the other job. Those are usually my easy days lol. It's not all bad, I can usually relax and chill and not do much towards the end of the day and I'm often the only one there. Friends and family don't live very close so I'm not always tempted to hang out with them. Spend time with my GF at home, I never go to sleep until late and don't need a lot of sleep, never have.

jeffh19
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by jeffh19 » Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:24 pm

Watty wrote:
jeffh19 wrote: I'd probably buy a house half this expensive. I do love nice houses, and do want something with curb appeal. I need a 3 car garage and the problem is that there are no cheap houses with 3 car garages. I've been looking at houses up to 300k, and been looking in the area I want to live basically for 2 years for a house. There are rarely any houses with a 3 car under 250k,
Look at buying a house with a two car garage on a large lot for $150K and add an additional garage, or even a separate custom workshop for your cars. The saving on the property taxes alone would pay for the addition in a reasonable amount of time.
Traveler wrote:I've never understood (nor frankly believed) when people say they work 80-90 hours a week for a prolonged period of time. Doing the math using 85, that is 12 hours every single day. Assume seven hours of sleep and you're left with five hours a day to commute, grocery shop, clean the house, shower, exercise and socialize. You must be much more organized than me to fit all that in and have the energy to work a long day, every single day. How do you do it?
In addition I would add that it is hard to maintain a good relationship while you are working that many hours. If you have kids someday that would be an even bigger time issue.
I've thought about that and everyone suggests that but here is my line of thinking.
1- Its hard to find a lot with that much space in the small area where I want to live
2- With what it would cost to build a garage, knowing I don't know the Idea of moderation I'd probably drop 50k on a damn garage/shop (not hard to do) and I really don't think I'd see much of that at all back in resale. Maybe an extra 10k or something, or wait a long ass time to sell to find that super rare niche buyer like I am. This way I also get a much nicer house in a nice subdivision etc too. Taxes suck, but I feel like in the end when I would sell both places the I'd get all my money back from the nice 3 car house instead of never getting back much of the big pot of money I'd throw down for a big garage/shed.Could be wrong though.

One close friend keeps telling me to buy land and build my own place. I know that building is/can be expensive as hell, is a nightmare of decisions, planning and stress and what I would probably build would again be more of a niche thing that I may never get my money out of....My friends/family and I often half joking/half serious say that I just need a massive pole barn/garage with a living quarters inside.

I don't think there's a ton of land for sale near where I want to live, and other than maybe looking on realtor.com I have no idea where to look for it, what land cost or what a good price is and the entire process of buying it and then building etc....I would love to build my dream house/garage some day after I retire though I think

As far as kids, if we did choose to have kids I'd certainly cut back a lot on working as I'm not going to miss my kids growing up. Not sure we are going to have any kids though, time will tell.
Last edited by jeffh19 on Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mortfree
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by mortfree » Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:27 pm

On the conversion of the 2-car garage to 3.

It would work best on a house with 2 single garage doors and the garage being at the end of the house.

You convert the single door on the end to a double and now you have a 3-car garage. One single door and a double door

Hope that made sense

jeffh19
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by jeffh19 » Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:49 pm

mortfree wrote:On the conversion of the 2-car garage to 3.

It would work best on a house with 2 single garage doors and the garage being at the end of the house.

You convert the single door on the end to a double and now you have a 3-car garage. One single door and a double door

Hope that made sense
I think easement issues interfere in most houses as you can't build anything within 10' (or more?) of the property line and most have a neighbor pretty close. I wonder how much it would cost to add in a garage spot on the end of a house, 10k? At least? I probably wouldn't get much of however much I put in back, but it could save me from spending more for a house. I could go back and forth on pros and cons of both, but I'll keep an eye out for this option a little more.

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Watty
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by Watty » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:14 pm

jeffh19 wrote:I've thought about that and everyone suggests that but here is my line of thinking.
1- Its hard to find a lot with that much space in the small area where I want to live
2- With what it would cost to build a garage, knowing I don't know the Idea of moderation I'd probably drop 50k on a damn garage/shop (not hard to do) and I really don't think I'd see much of that at all back in resale.
Hard is not impossible.

Comparing third garage in an existing house to a dream garage is comparing "apples to watermelons". If you buy a McMansion with a three car garage the third garage will be pretty plain the day you move in. Basically it will just be an empty box the size of a car.

If you pay an extra $3,000 a year in property taxes for ten years you will not get that $30K back either when you sell the house with the three car garage.

tjschraf
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by tjschraf » Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:00 am

if it were me, I would try to do it on one job.

Most importantly- the corvette...... I am the corvette king and have been blessed in my short life to own quite a few. Just a few suggestions:

I love 3 car + garages and belong to the camp that says it can never be large enough. But, how long do you think you'll be there? You don't have the corvette yet and you currently rent. How big is the rental garage? I would not want to gear home choice solely based on the size of garage. Would narrowing search to 2+ help and potentially land you a house for a larger discount?

My parents have a 3 car garage but a few too many toys. One thing I would consider that they did was (I would, but can't since my ceiling is 8 feet range) add a 4 post hoist/ lift so now they effectively have 4 cars in a 3 car garage.

Now, onto the corvette. I would caution the keeping up with the jones' mentality. I struggle with it too. I have a c5 z06. It's truly the car I fell in love with. Obviously not for everyone, but what I always say is: "it's not the newest or nicest corvette, but it's MY corvette". The car is worth ~18k and I enjoy it. I don't care about miles or anything it's my enjoyment. I don't have a car payment and would like to keep it this way. I've owned c2s,c3s,c4s (zr-1 and base), and c5. I don't think now is the time to spend on a brand new one. My goal is to someday buy new and do a museum delivery. Can you settle with a c4z, C5z, or basec6

jeffh19
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by jeffh19 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:05 am

tjschraf wrote:if it were me, I would try to do it on one job.

Most importantly- the corvette...... I am the corvette king and have been blessed in my short life to own quite a few. Just a few suggestions:

I love 3 car + garages and belong to the camp that says it can never be large enough. But, how long do you think you'll be there? You don't have the corvette yet and you currently rent. How big is the rental garage? I would not want to gear home choice solely based on the size of garage. Would narrowing search to 2+ help and potentially land you a house for a larger discount?

I only have a carport at my current place. If I had a garage then maybe I'd consider a C7 GS, but I'm just not going to spend 70k on a car living at an apt complex without a garage. Its a nice complex, but its not like there are luxury cars sitting around here or anything either
My parents have a 3 car garage but a few too many toys. One thing I would consider that they did was (I would, but can't since my ceiling is 8 feet range) add a 4 post hoist/ lift so now they effectively have 4 cars in a 3 car garage.
I'd consider that...but only if I had a 3 car lol...I want my Vette and DD/winter car to be super easy to get into, not have to navigate around a lift etc to get in them and move around the garage. This has already been suggested to me and I just don't think a 2 car with one of those would make me happy at all.

Now, onto the corvette. I would caution the keeping up with the jones' mentality. I struggle with it too. I have a c5 z06. It's truly the car I fell in love with. Obviously not for everyone, but what I always say is: "it's not the newest or nicest corvette, but it's MY corvette". The car is worth ~18k and I enjoy it. I don't care about miles or anything it's my enjoyment. I don't have a car payment and would like to keep it this way. I've owned c2s,c3s,c4s (zr-1 and base), and c5. I don't think now is the time to spend on a brand new one. My goal is to someday buy new and do a museum delivery. Can you settle with a c4z, C5z, or basec6
You're talking to the biggest fan of the C5Z. I've had a couple of them already. My friends make fun of me for loving them so much and always telling people how great they are. Ungodly light, tons of power and so easy to get more. Best/cheapest road course car out there I think. I'd love to get a C6Z, but would have to make sure the valves were fixed, and honestly I just really want the new looking C7 GS. Maybe I'll wait until the mid engine car comes out, who knows. Awesome to find another Vette guy on here, love to chat more about them with you! :)

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Devil's Advocate
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by Devil's Advocate » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:03 am

I would be worried that someone is going to take your girlfriend out in a Toyota Camry while your Corvette is sitting in the garage and you're at work.

I would skip the house. Work on life balance.

DA

MarvinK
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by MarvinK » Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:16 pm

Are you prepared to get into a big fight with your girlfriend about money, priorities, and choices?
She hasn't had a lot of extra money lately due to this, but I'm hoping she could pay more when I get a house, probably 500 or 600 bucks a month I guess. Not really counting on this for my situation though.
It's one thing for you to say, I want bigger garages, I want a luxury car
But to think that she will pay more money into a house (that's not considered hers), when she is working two jobs and doing schooling. Doubt this will work. It's either a joint decision (and sacrifices) for both or it isn't.
Your wording says it's not a joint decision.

A house also has maintenance that takes time and money, and believe me things break at the time you're not expecting. (It's different than renting)

bloom2708
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by bloom2708 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:35 pm

Perhaps figure out how many hours of each week you would be in your house and not sleeping.

Working 80-90 hours + sleeping. The balance is an awful lot of expense for very little return.

As mentioned, work on work/life balance. Rent until some shift happens in your work and/or life (marriage, kids, etc).
"We are here not to please but to provoke thoughtfulness" Unknown Boglehead

hightower
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by hightower » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:05 pm

You have such awesomely low expenses now that are fixed and dependable. Why more than double them for a house? Plus, houses end up costing a lot more than the minimum payments you'll be making to taxes and mortgage. You'll have unexpected repairs, furniture "needs," etc. You are killing it in the savings department right now and are going to be very wealthy someday soon if you continue with it. Don't screw that up for home ownership. It's not that great and not really worth it. I've been dreaming of going back to renting lately actually just so I can have a list of fixed expenses like yours.
Now to the rest of your post...are you nuts? You are saving and working your butt off just so you can waste it all on a few stupid cars? Do you have any clue how bad of an idea that is? Cars like that are for multi-millionaires who have money that they can afford to throw away. I make 3 times what you make in a year and I LOVE fast cars too, but I would NEVER spend 70k on a car, let alone 3.
You can't have it all. The math just won't work. You can not retire in your 50's and own 70k sports cars and a 3 car garage with that income. It's a good income and you save very well, but if you start buying cars like that, even one, you're savings is going bye bye and the chances of you getting it back are slim. You're still relatively young and working this hard is relatively easy for you now. How long do you realistically think you'll be able to work 80-90 hours a week? If you own a house that's at the far end of what's considered affordable for you and you fill your garage with way overpriced sports cars, you will be working 80-90 hours a week for the rest of your life just to barely pay the bills. It's simple math. You need to make a choice. Build wealth or waste money. You can't do both.
I think you're feeling really "flush" right now because you've been working really hard and saving really well. Take it from someone who's been in a situation in which I lived above my means. It's not worth it. It's far better to be in your current situation where you have no debt, a high savings rate, and healthy bank accounts. I don't care how awesome a car or house is, it's not worth giving that up.

ERISA Stone
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by ERISA Stone » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:36 pm

Maybe I'm too confined to my little bubble.....but why are the property taxes so high on this property? Is there a lot of land, or are some areas simply that high?

jeffh19
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by jeffh19 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:38 pm

Devil's Advocate wrote:I would be worried that someone is going to take your girlfriend out in a Toyota Camry while your Corvette is sitting in the garage and you're at work.

I would skip the house. Work on life balance.

DA
I'm going to reply to each post individually because I had a massive thing setup where I had a reply to all but the last post, and I lost it and I'm pretty pissed about it, so you're all stuck with reading it this way lol

Honestly, she's busier or gone more than I am. Often I beat her home/am home more than she is, and I'm the one always asking her to take off work to go do things, and she normally can't take off work as it's hard for her to do. Besides her normal full time job she does an in home care job from Saturday morning until Monday morning, and then she drives straight from there to her other job, and then she goes to cross fit after that (MWF) and often she does something else after getting done working out, so I'm usually sitting at home waiting for her until 6-8pm sometimes. I work a lot of weekend hours, but she literally is gone the entire weekend so me working this much isn't a problem for our relationship at all. I really enjoy the time we have together through the week and always really look forward to her coming home on Monday nights :)

I'll discuss the work/life balance thing in another post

edge
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by edge » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:43 pm

This doesn't work. Don't build a lifestyle where 90 hour work weeks by two people is required to sustain it.

Why not work towards higher comp careers instead of working huge hours?

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Pajamas
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by Pajamas » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:25 pm

You're not going to be able to keep up working as much as you have been forever. You need to plan for that day.

Best advice would be to keep renting and investing until you and your girlfriend are ready to drop down to one job each, get married, buy a house, and have a kid/dog/cat. Keep your options open until then. A house is a drain on your finances while a big bank account represents possibilities and freedom of choice.

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dodecahedron
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by dodecahedron » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:54 pm

Seems odd to spend so much for a home given how few waking hours you have to enjoy it.

jeffh19
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by jeffh19 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:15 pm

MarvinK wrote:Are you prepared to get into a big fight with your girlfriend about money, priorities, and choices?
She hasn't had a lot of extra money lately due to this, but I'm hoping she could pay more when I get a house, probably 500 or 600 bucks a month I guess. Not really counting on this for my situation though.
It's one thing for you to say, I want bigger garages, I want a luxury car
But to think that she will pay more money into a house (that's not considered hers), when she is working two jobs and doing schooling. Doubt this will work. It's either a joint decision (and sacrifices) for both or it isn't.
Your wording says it's not a joint decision.

A house also has maintenance that takes time and money, and believe me things break at the time you're not expecting. (It's different than renting)
She wants to get into a nice house more than I do honestly. She would love to be able to pay half or whatever for the new house, but she doesn't make enough money and when she was worried she couldn't afford half, I told her I'm obviously not wanting her to pay half and if she could just throw in an extra hundred or two a month, that would be fine as my expenses are going to triple, so it's all good. It's not like she isn't getting anything for the extra money either, paying 500 bucks a month to live in a 3500 sq ft house in a great neighborhood seems worth it to me, I don't think it' unfair of me at all to take extra money for living expenses when our costs will at least triple and I'm only taking whatever she can comfortably afford to chip in...but maybe I'm an asshole lol :p

Definitely considering the cost of upkeep etc on a house. I'm not much of a DIY home repair guy, so I'd probably pay to get at least the more complicated things done. I might also pay for lawn care too as I work a lot and there's cost and time of doing it yourself too, so that might be something that's worth it for me to do.

What do you guys think is a good rule of thumb to budget for yearly repairs etc on a home if its say within 10-20 years old or so?

davebo
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by davebo » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:26 pm

I have no idea why you would want to buy a house with the, seemingly, primary reason being to have a 3-car garage to house the corvette that you don't own yet. It seems like with the amount of hours you work, you won't be home to enjoy either one of them.

I

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Devil's Advocate
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by Devil's Advocate » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:36 pm

This is bordering on the absurd. Are we being trolled here ?!

DA

jeffh19
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by jeffh19 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:41 pm

bloom2708 wrote:Perhaps figure out how many hours of each week you would be in your house and not sleeping.

Working 80-90 hours + sleeping. The balance is an awful lot of expense for very little return.

As mentioned, work on work/life balance. Rent until some shift happens in your work and/or life (marriage, kids, etc).
The return is being able to afford a nice house, car(s), be able to max out all my retirement accounts, retire at 50 instead of 65, be able to travel after I retire etc. I once read a post on here where one guy was talking about buying time, and I skipped reading what he was saying because I thought to myself, time is the one thing people say you can't buy or get more of right? Well someone quoted his post and bolded a sentence so I read his post. What he meant was by working your ass off/making more income/saving money, is your buying time off the end of your work career so you can enjoy more of your retirement/life. So that's what I feel like I'm doing, is by working this much I'm enabling myself to retire early and do all those things.

If I didn't, I'd probably only be able to do my Roth, a little to 401k, and not be able to buy/do near the things I'd like to do throughout life, which again is not a lot as I'm very frugal, except for the big purchases

KlangFool
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by KlangFool » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:13 pm

jeffh19 wrote:
bloom2708 wrote:Perhaps figure out how many hours of each week you would be in your house and not sleeping.

Working 80-90 hours + sleeping. The balance is an awful lot of expense for very little return.

As mentioned, work on work/life balance. Rent until some shift happens in your work and/or life (marriage, kids, etc).
The return is being able to afford a nice house, car(s), be able to max out all my retirement accounts, retire at 50 instead of 65, be able to travel after I retire etc. I once read a post on here where one guy was talking about buying time, and I skipped reading what he was saying because I thought to myself, time is the one thing people say you can't buy or get more of right? Well someone quoted his post and bolded a sentence so I read his post. What he meant was by working your ass off/making more income/saving money, is your buying time off the end of your work career so you can enjoy more of your retirement/life. So that's what I feel like I'm doing, is by working this much I'm enabling myself to retire early and do all those things.

If I didn't, I'd probably only be able to do my Roth, a little to 401k, and not be able to buy/do near the things I'd like to do throughout life, which again is not a lot as I'm very frugal, except for the big purchases
jeffh19,

<< The return is being able to afford a nice house, car(s), be able to max out all my retirement accounts, retire at 50 instead of 65, >>

Please tell us how could you achieve that with your current income by buying the house and the car?

KlangFool

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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by MoonOrb » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:21 pm

Yeah you can buy this house, but like everyone else I have doubts about you being able to sustain your lifestyle.

I'd take out a 30 year loan instead of a 15 year loan to lower the monthly payments and take some pressure off of myself.

jeffh19
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by jeffh19 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:11 am

hightower wrote:You have such awesomely low expenses now that are fixed and dependable. Why more than double them for a house? Isnt it common for a house to cost you at least 2x what an apartment did especially if you are doing it on a 15 year and not putting a massive downpayment down?Plus, houses end up costing a lot more than the minimum payments you'll be making to taxes and mortgage. You'll have unexpected repairs, furniture "needs," etc. You are killing it in the savings department right now and are going to be very wealthy someday soon if you continue with it. Don't screw that up for home ownership. It's not that great and not really worth it. I've been dreaming of going back to renting lately actually just so I can have a list of fixed expenses like yours.I hear you, renting is for some, homes are for some. I don't hate the idea of renting as much as I used to for sure, but renting isn't the same obviously. Renting can't really give me a garage like I want, or not having to worry about me being to loud inside my house with music or movies or whatever I want, or my loud cars waking people up at 4am when I leave for work (thats basically why I sold my last Vette is I never drove it because it was too loud to start outside that early, and I made money selling the car anyway

Now to the rest of your post...are you nuts? You are saving and working your butt off just so you can waste it all on a few stupid cars? Do you have any clue how bad of an idea that is? Cars like that are for multi-millionaires who have money that they can afford to throw away. I make 3 times what you make in a year and I LOVE fast cars too, but I would NEVER spend 70k on a car, let alone 3. First of all, I'm not spending 70k on 3 cars, I'm spending it on one. I already have 2 other ones, one is a car worth maybe 5k and another worth 3500 (first car I ever owned, will never sell it) or so that's stored in the back of my Dad's garage that I can't drive or enjoy until I get a house with a garage to put in. Now I could potentially upgrade my daily driver as I bought it years ago cheap for cash and I literally hate the car for several reasons, but I've put up with it for the last couple years even though I wanted something newer/nicer because I didn't want to pay for a new car. Also, if you make *that* much money but you won't spend 70k on any car in your lifetime, I feel like you're not *that* much of a car guy. Maybe I'm really wrong and you buy super cheap Miata's or whatever because thats the kind of cars you are into. I don't think a Corvette that cost 50-70k is only for multimillionaires as its considering to the normal/working man, especially if it's a car you DD. You can't tell me some people here don't have trucks, SUVs, luxury cars etc that cost that much and don't get slammed for it. I'm just choosing a different kind of car that draws a lot of attention or negative connotation here
You can't have it all. The math just won't work. You can not retire in your 50's and own 70k sports cars and a 3 car garage with that income. It's a good income and you save very well, but if you start buying cars like that, even one, you're savings is going bye bye and the chances of you getting it back are slim. You're still relatively young and working this hard is relatively easy for you now. How long do you realistically think you'll be able to work 80-90 hours a week? Ideally I'll only do as much as I do now for a couple more years or so. I'd like to trim 20-30 hours a week or so if my GF can get a job with enough income to supplement that. If you own a house that's at the far end of what's considered affordable for you and you fill your garage with way overpriced sports cars, you will be working 80-90 hours a week for the rest of your life just to barely pay the bills. It's simple math. You need to make a choice. Build wealth or waste money. You can't do both. I see where you are coming from, but again we are talking about one overpriced sports car, and hell I may own that for God knows how long, or sell it down the line and not take a massive hit on it if I buy/sell right like I've done in the past. I'm not sure a house this expensive is barely affordable. I just ran my numbers through nerd wallet's dumb little how much house can I afford calculator (first google result) and it says I can "afford" a house that cost 675k....which is hilariously insane.

Keep in mind the income that I take home is after maxing my 401k which is $1500 a month. I also put a grand in my brokerage a month. I specifically made these decisions thinking hey I'll just do big amount until I buy a house as I have all this income coming in, let's do the best thing with it instead of sitting there doing nothing. I forgot to mention that I also withhold and extra $250 a month or so in extra taxes and withhold 0 just because of the 2 job thing. I'm playing it safe there. I could make some adjustments and probably bring home up to 8500-9k a month or so. Also *I have about 150k in cash/stocks sitting there specifically to use towards a house/car* I also have almost 100k in retirement that I'm not even thinking about asking about using that to buy the house.

I know I can afford this house, but what I'm asking is
A. is it doable/smart without adjusting my 401k/brokerage contributions and/or not using a lot of my 150k in cash I have
B How should I choose to pay for it as in how would you adjust things to make it affordable (back off/cut out brokerage, lower 401k to however much a year, just use almost all of my cash)


I think you're feeling really "flush" right now because you've been working really hard and saving really well. Take it from someone who's been in a situation in which I lived above my means. It's not worth it. It's far better to be in your current situation where you have no debt, a high savings rate, and healthy bank accounts. I don't care how awesome a car or house is, it's not worth giving that up.
Thanks for the thoughts. Earlier I read this and got kind of mad because I feel like you're telling me I'm insane to even consider buying this house and/or buying that car and that there's no way I can afford it, so I guess I took it kind of personal or an attack against my ego haha...I decided to rewrite the thing after I thought about it more. :happy

jeffh19
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by jeffh19 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:12 am

ERISA Stone wrote:Maybe I'm too confined to my little bubble.....but why are the property taxes so high on this property? Is there a lot of land, or are some areas simply that high?
Super high property taxes in the state sadly.

jeffh19
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by jeffh19 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:23 am

Devil's Advocate wrote:This is bordering on the absurd. Are we being trolled here ?!

DA
I'd be glad to provide screenshots of whatever you guys want.

Is it REALLY that insane for someone who
Makes 150k a year
32 years old
150k in Cash/liquid stocks
100k in retirement
Maxes 401k and IRA (can/will change)
Auto deposits 1k a month to VTSAX (can/will change)
Saved 150k in the last few years alone
Has *0* debt of any kind whatsoever
GF will contribute 400-600 a month towards the house (I'm not counting that at all, but it helps)

To want to buy a house for 270k, and want to buy the car of my dreams for 70k max, first newer car I've ever bought and who's been obsessed with cars my entire life. I get that expensive cars and big houses are the enemy of super early retirement and having a bajillion dollars when you're old. I also want to make sure I actually enjoy my life throughout a little bit too. Corvettes are what make me happy. I freaking hate that my hobby is so expensive, I really do as they conflict with each other so much. It' like the devil/angel on the shoulders saying save every dime you make and have so much money or you know you can afford these things so do it and still save/live well, maybe you'll only have 3 million instead of 4 or something....but I'm totally freaking fine with that as I don't spend my money on shit for the most part. What's the point of working all these hours and making all this money if I'm never going to enjoy it? Maybe even literally never if I die or get cancer or something. I'm not planning on that or using it as an excuse to be stupid with money, but I do see it happen a lot.

Tomorrow's are never guaranteed.

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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by jeffh19 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:25 am

KlangFool wrote:
jeffh19 wrote:
bloom2708 wrote:Perhaps figure out how many hours of each week you would be in your house and not sleeping.

Working 80-90 hours + sleeping. The balance is an awful lot of expense for very little return.

As mentioned, work on work/life balance. Rent until some shift happens in your work and/or life (marriage, kids, etc).
The return is being able to afford a nice house, car(s), be able to max out all my retirement accounts, retire at 50 instead of 65, be able to travel after I retire etc. I once read a post on here where one guy was talking about buying time, and I skipped reading what he was saying because I thought to myself, time is the one thing people say you can't buy or get more of right? Well someone quoted his post and bolded a sentence so I read his post. What he meant was by working your ass off/making more income/saving money, is your buying time off the end of your work career so you can enjoy more of your retirement/life. So that's what I feel like I'm doing, is by working this much I'm enabling myself to retire early and do all those things.

If I didn't, I'd probably only be able to do my Roth, a little to 401k, and not be able to buy/do near the things I'd like to do throughout life, which again is not a lot as I'm very frugal, except for the big purchases
jeffh19,

<< The return is being able to afford a nice house, car(s), be able to max out all my retirement accounts, retire at 50 instead of 65, >>

Please tell us how could you achieve that with your current income by buying the house and the car?

KlangFool
As I've probably stated somewhere above, I only changed my 401k contribution when I knew this income was a sure thing and as something I'd do until I bought a house, then back down to whatever. I was at 10% initially. Now that I see how much money it is and how much it could be I'm getting greedy and wondering if it's possible to do both, or at least maybe not going back to just 10% and no auto contribution to my brokerage (or lowering it)

binvesting
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by binvesting » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:53 am

jeffh19 wrote: as I'm very frugal, except for the big purchases.. paying 500 bucks a month to live in a 3500 sq ft house in a great neighborhood seems worth it to me
Op, I am not trying to pick on what you said but just wanted to point our some things I noticed.
3500sq ft house for 2 ppl just for having the garage is insane. Without kids and you two being so busy, renting is a no brainer.
Your big purchase is a 70k car that will deprecate in value, So even if you are so frugal that you are saving 1k more/month that a others in a similar position, you are using 6yrs of those savings for that car. Thats 6yrs of your time where you worked 2 jobs!
Its not just that - your current expense is 1k but if you buy a house, it'll be 2400. So, even accounting for tax break from mortgage, we can approximate it to be ~10k extra per year, which is 60k after 6yrs.
So, if you buy the car and house, you have totally drained 130k in principal since that money could have grown if invested!!
Just wanted to check if you thought about this angle with the numbers laid out.
Another question is: you keep mentioning that tomorrow is not guaranteed. But somehow you seem to be sure that your two jobs and your savings rate are guaranteed. If you need to give up one of the two jobs due to choice or external factors, will your new income sustain the lifestyle of expense car+huge house? What if you have kids and wife decides to not work.
I am married, have two kids, and mortgage, and I can only dream about having a 2k or a 3k monthly budget.
You have the gift of financial flexibility - dont waste it on a car and a house to hold the car!

PStrider
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by PStrider » Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:22 am

I'd plan for worst case scenario and work from there (ie. losing your job(s), unexpected medical bills, GF->Wife->Divorce fees, etc.)

I'd go with what others have said and buy a cheaper house with 30 year loan with 2 car garages then add one (or more) later if you can't find a 3-car one home.

Another thing I'd do is get married first (with the right person) before purchasing a house.

Best of luck.

Leemiller
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by Leemiller » Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:06 am

One measure of adequate retirement savings is 1x your salary by age 30, so you're behind in terms of early retirement by that measure unless you wish to spend dramatically less in retirement. The house is ok but probably a luxury since you get so much house for that amount of money.

In my opinion the car is completely insane given your finances.

Also, I think it would be more fair for you and your girlfriend to pay an equal percentage of your income to expenses. Otherwise, you ratchet up the lifestyle and she's stuck feeling poor while you're happily saving lots each month. This will not create good feelings.

KlangFool
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by KlangFool » Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:23 am

OP,

Why buy a big house that you need to maintain and use infrequently?

Why buy a car and maintain the car that you use infrequently?

There is a simpler, cheaper, and more cost-effective way to achieve the same goal. How about renting the car? You could rent a luxury car for a week or more, stay in luxury hotel, and travel to nice places. It is cheaper. You do not need to spend the time and effort to maintain the car and house. And, you get to switch your luxury car frequently.

https://exoticcars.enterprise.com/en/ve ... ngray.html

KlangFool

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Pajamas
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by Pajamas » Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:26 am

Since what you really want is a particular automobile and a big garage, why not be honest about your priorities and just buy a garage and that vehicle instead of a house?

Depending on where you are, you may be able to buy a former auto mechanic garage or gas station very inexpensively. You would get a giant garage with room for lots of cars. It would be like having your own clubhouse to hang out in. If it has an office with a bathroom and kitchenette, so much the better for the perfect part-time bachelor pad if you don't eventually get married.

Check this one out:

http://www.mainecountryproperties.com/d ... river.html

Surely you can find something similar in your area.

WL2034
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by WL2034 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:13 pm

I think the house is actually the least problematic of these issues, especially if you will continue to be involved with your girlfriend / possibly wife in the future. You can afford it.

Would you be better off with something less expensive? Sure, as long as it meets your needs.

More problematic issues:

1. The car. OK, your salary is like 65-70k per year. (40 hr/wk x 50 wk/yr x $33/hr = $66k). I know you make more and you work 80-90 hr/wk, but that is just overtime, and IMO not sustainable long term. And if you really plan to work 80-90 hr/wk long term, you really should plan to retire at 50 because you will be burned out and probably have health problems. In that case, you can't afford to buy the car because that is going to severely delay your retirement. You are absolutely not on track for early retirement if you buy this house and a $70k car. A $70k car is a huge stretch for someone with a $140k salary (50% gross income!) and that's for someone with an actual $140k salary, not working 80-90 hr/wk to get there. Again, that's my opinion. Can you get your car guy fix by buying a used Corvette for 30-40% of the price of a new one and working on it in the garage, etc?

2. Work / life balance. As someone who has worked 80-90 hr/wk in the past due to necessity, but would not do it again by choice, this just sounds terrible. Downsides: less time for relationships/friendships, eating healthy, staying physically active (healthy), travel, hobbies. It may seem like this is no big deal at age 32, and you have your eyes on the prize (more money, new car), but it will add up. Imagine that in 10 years, when you are 42 and have barely saved any more for retirement because of the 10 year old Corvette sitting in the 3 car garage, and you are still working 80-90 hr/wk to keep up with your expenses. Will you feel differently about this decision? 80-90 hr/wk will likely feel differently in your 40's, 50's, and 60's than it does now. And you will need to work like that into your 60's if you are insistent on living that lifestyle. I suspect (and there are studies to support this), that most people are FAR happier working 40 hr/wk and making $65-70k than working 80-90 hr/wk to make $130k. Maybe the sweet spot for you is 50-55 hr/wk, but I don't think 80-90 hr/wk is healthy, long-term.

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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by watchnerd » Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:42 pm

jeffh19 wrote:
I'm so sorry about the length of this lol
Based on the info you've provided*, the NY Times Rent vs Buy calculator....

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... .html?_r=0

...says, no.

You'd be better off renting.

*The big wild card is real estate appreciation. Comments above are with standard numbers for appreciation. A hot real estate market may lead to a different answer.
Tweaked 3-Fund: 35% US Equities | 35% Total International | 30% Intermediate Treasuries

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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by watchnerd » Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:58 pm

jeffh19 wrote: The return is being able to afford a nice house, car(s), be able to max out all my retirement accounts, retire at 50 instead of 65, be able to travel after I retire etc.
Buying more house and car than you can afford, living beyond your means, is not the formula for retiring at 50.
Last edited by watchnerd on Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by watchnerd » Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:07 pm

ERISA Stone wrote:Maybe I'm too confined to my little bubble.....but why are the property taxes so high on this property? Is there a lot of land, or are some areas simply that high?
I was wondering the same thing. That's over 2% property tax, which I've never heard of.
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by JGoneRiding » Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:12 pm

jeffh19 wrote:
Devil's Advocate wrote:This is bordering on the absurd. Are we being trolled here ?!

DA
I'd be glad to provide screenshots of whatever you guys want.

Is it REALLY that insane for someone who
Makes 150k a year
32 years old
150k in Cash/liquid stocks
100k in retirement
Maxes 401k and IRA (can/will change)
Auto deposits 1k a month to VTSAX (can/will change)
Saved 150k in the last few years alone
Has *0* debt of any kind whatsoever
GF will contribute 400-600 a month towards the house (I'm not counting that at all, but it helps)

To want to buy a house for 270k, and want to buy the car of my dreams for 70k max,

Tomorrow's are never guaranteed.
For what its worth , no I don't think insane. The part that is crazy is hours worked. But really you save enough even if you cut back hours you could do it. Well ok maybe the car is crazy but then I just don't get it. My DH is a car guy too and so I know it isn't "that" expensive of a car ;) you could easily want double. He excepts that kind of car would only happen if we win the lottery

runner540
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by runner540 » Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:35 pm

watchnerd wrote:
ERISA Stone wrote:Maybe I'm too confined to my little bubble.....but why are the property taxes so high on this property? Is there a lot of land, or are some areas simply that high?
I was wondering the same thing. That's over 2% property tax, which I've never heard of.
2-3% is par for the course in Texas.

Wellfleet
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by Wellfleet » Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:59 pm

I've got car or boat friends and many of them rent or own shops in small industrial parks where the toys are kept, beer consumed, and engines worked on.

I would think this would be a great option.

edge
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by edge » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:37 pm

The taxes for one of my NY props is around 3%.

Very bad economic model.
watchnerd wrote:
ERISA Stone wrote:Maybe I'm too confined to my little bubble.....but why are the property taxes so high on this property? Is there a lot of land, or are some areas simply that high?
I was wondering the same thing. That's over 2% property tax, which I've never heard of.

hightower
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by hightower » Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:02 pm

"Thanks for the thoughts. Earlier I read this and got kind of mad because I feel like you're telling me I'm insane to even consider buying this house and/or buying that car and that there's no way I can afford it, so I guess I took it kind of personal or an attack against my ego haha...I decided to rewrite the thing after I thought about it more."

Sorry that it sounded like I was slamming you for your decisions/questions. That certainly wasn't my intent. In reading your original post it just sounded like you were wanting to go from being a super saver to being a super spender all of the sudden and I was trying to provide you with a different perspective in an effort to prevent you from doing something you might regret. Certainly you can afford a 270k house with a 150k/yr income. I guess the 3 car garage and 70k corvette is what made me worry that you were feeling too flush and at risk of blowing it all like it's an MTV cribs episode:) Ha! I mean, it sounds like you're aware of the potential pit falls of spending too much, so I'm not going to beat a dead horse. If you feel that spending half a year's salary on a car is worthwhile to you, then by all means it's your money and you have the right to make that choice. I'm not judging you for it if it is something that will bring you joy. However, realize that to most people, especially on this forum, spending that kind of cash on a car is insane, especially when you're someone that works 80-90 hrs a week for that income. If you're going to bust your butt and work that hard, it seems counter intuitive to then turn around and blow so much of it on a very expensive, luxury item like a 70k sportscar. I'm just playing the devil's advocate to make sure you've really thought it out. Best of luck with your decision man!

TropikThunder
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by TropikThunder » Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:46 pm

runner540 wrote:
watchnerd wrote:
ERISA Stone wrote:Maybe I'm too confined to my little bubble.....but why are the property taxes so high on this property? Is there a lot of land, or are some areas simply that high?
I was wondering the same thing. That's over 2% property tax, which I've never heard of.
2-3% is par for the course in Texas.
Especially in a good school district. The tax rate on my townhouse in 2007 when I lived in McKinney (north of Dallas) was:
Collin County 0.245000
City of McKinney 0.573000
Collin College District 0.585500
McKinney ISD 1.517000
---------------------------------
Total 2.92%

So I was paying $8,030 per year on a $275k townhouse (the rate is closer to 2.5% now but still .....)

mouses
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by mouses » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:21 pm

runner540 wrote:
watchnerd wrote:
ERISA Stone wrote:Maybe I'm too confined to my little bubble.....but why are the property taxes so high on this property? Is there a lot of land, or are some areas simply that high?
I was wondering the same thing. That's over 2% property tax, which I've never heard of.
2-3% is par for the course in Texas.
It's about the same % in my area of Rhode Island.

mortfree
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by mortfree » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:23 pm

mouses wrote:
runner540 wrote:
watchnerd wrote:
ERISA Stone wrote:Maybe I'm too confined to my little bubble.....but why are the property taxes so high on this property? Is there a lot of land, or are some areas simply that high?
I was wondering the same thing. That's over 2% property tax, which I've never heard of.
2-3% is par for the course in Texas.
It's about the same % in my area of Rhode Island.
6k on a house assessed at 152k (3.9%)... PA school and property taxes

mouses
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Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by mouses » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:24 pm

KlangFool wrote:OP,

Why buy a big house that you need to maintain and use infrequently?

Why buy a car and maintain the car that you use infrequently?

There is a simpler, cheaper, and more cost-effective way to achieve the same goal. How about renting the car? You could rent a luxury car for a week or more, stay in luxury hotel, and travel to nice places. It is cheaper. You do not need to spend the time and effort to maintain the car and house. And, you get to switch your luxury car frequently.

https://exoticcars.enterprise.com/en/ve ... ngray.html

KlangFool
This idea I like.

Also, if you do buy a house (bad idea), I hope you have some arrangement with your GF so she gets some cash back if you break up, since she is contributing to it.

mortfree
Posts: 549
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:06 pm

Re: Should I buy this house?

Post by mortfree » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:33 pm

Eddie Vedder says:
Soon Forget wrote:
Sorry is the fool who trades his soul for a Corvette
Thinks he'll get the girl, he'll only get the mechanic
What's missing? He's living a day he'll soon forget

That's one more time around, the sun is going down
The moon is out, but he's drunk and shouting, putting people down
He's pissing, he's living a day he'll soon forget

Counts his money every morning, the only thing that keeps him horny
Locked in a giant house, that's alarming
The townsfolk, they all laugh

Sorry is the fool who trades his love for hi-rise rent
Seems the more you make equals the loneliness you get
And it's fitting, he's barely living a day he'll soon forget

That's one more time around, and there is not a sound
He's lying dead, clutching Benjamins, never put the money down
He's stiffening, we're all whistling, a man we'll soon forget

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