Unable to Escape from Quicken Island ...

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
Da5id
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Re: Unable to Escape from Quicken Island ...

Post by Da5id » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:52 am

protagonist wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:45 am
The older versions were great.
Simply enter your data manually and avoid online updates. The time you will spend doing so may be less than the time you spend dealing with Quciken problems. Plus your info remains on your computer and thus is more secure, and you don't have to worry about invasiveness or data mining.
My last update was Quicken 2010. It still does what I want it to do. Intuit probably has no idea who or where I am anymore, as I have not gotten any spam from them in many years.
I'm strongly considering the same when my Quicken 2016 expires. Other key with Quicken is backing up your data file. I corrupted mine a month or so below. Fortunately I recovered the file from the week prior using Crashplan. Losing this data file would be really vexing as reentering the information is not an option.

It won't fly in the modern world, but I'm resistant to subscription based pricing. I have a (perhaps irrational) dislike of the drip drip of ongoing costs, particularly for things I used to buy and be done with. Mind you, Quicken has had a "subscription" plan for some time with the 3 year sunset of online services -- basically your purchase divided by 3 was your "subscription".

JBTX
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Re: Unable to Escape from Quicken Island ...

Post by JBTX » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:58 am

I guess I march to a different drummer than many here.

I have used Quicken for 20+ years, and overall have been pretty satisfied. As I have said before, the software is a bit "clunky" and not as sleek and not as many features of some really high end software, but considering what it does it works well. We probably have a dozen plus credit cards, close to a dozen bank accounts, and at least a couple of dozen different investment accounts across Vanguard, Fidelity, etc. Plus a few more things.

Quicken allows me to update all of that on a weekly basis. I can download transactions from the various financial companies without a ton of effort. If I had to manually do it that would be a real pain, and I certainly would do it a lot less. By allowing me to do it more frequently, Quicken helps me find thins that are out of the ordinary. While there is a theoretical risk of quicken having financial instution login info on their servers, it is just one more of dozens of theoretical risks of dealing with online data, or for that matter having a home computer that can be hacked. And at this point for most of my important financial investment accounts, I have multi factor authentication in the unlikely event somebody were to break in and steal my data for quicken.

I guess I try to look at Quicken like companies look at their enterprise software. They invest in it because overall it is a great productivity enhancer, in that it provides information, and reduces unnecessary labor. However, it isn't uncommon at all for these programs to blow up and have issues, or more likely not play nice with some other software, and lead to outages involving IT intervention.

So to me the theoretical risks that somebody steals my information and gets around multifactor authentification, and the cost of having to pay $50 -$75 every couple of years is FAR less than the productivity enhancements I get and the added security that I get by being able to frequently review my financial information in an integrated fashion.

Given it is a fairly small business model, it isn't shocking there are going to be issues with the software here and there when the subsciber base is limited and you only charges $50-$75 every couple of years. Typically software companies either have tens of millions or more of customers paying modest fees, or else a more limited customer base and subscription model and charge thousands every year. I am not convinced Quicken can survive long term with this model, combined with everything going to the cloud and to smartphone. So to me the biggest risk is Quicken doesn't survive long term. But if and when that day comes, I have options.

I am currently using 2016 H&B, and considering upgrading to 2017, that way I'll have until 2020 or so before I have to go to the subscription model. And when I have to go to subscription model, I will go willingly.

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MP123
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Re: Unable to Escape from Quicken Island ...

Post by MP123 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:14 pm

Da5id wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:52 am
Mind you, Quicken has had a "subscription" plan for some time with the 3 year sunset of online services -- basically your purchase divided by 3 was your "subscription".
This is a good point. Quicken's new owners are just being more direct that you need to pay them every year to keep it running.

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MP123
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Re: Unable to Escape from Quicken Island ...

Post by MP123 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:19 pm

SimonJester wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:57 am
WoodSpinner wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:52 pm
Do you have a source for this?
This link indicates that is not correct.
https://getsatisfaction.com/quickencomm ... word-vault
Sigh, but this link indicates it depends on the financial institution.
https://www.quicken.com/support/how-qui ... nformation

Now I AM CONCERNED
Look at what the second link says:

When using Express Web Connect to automate Web Connect downloads from your financial institution's website, your user name and password are encrypted. Depending on your financial institution's procedures, it will be stored on our firewall-protected servers or in your Quicken software. Your financial information is transmitted using Secure Socket Layer (SSL) technology and is encrypted, so it is unreadable during transmission. It is then stored on our firewall-protected servers and is securely transmitted directly to your desktop computer when you initiate One Step Update. Your information is confidential and is not used for anything other than providing and maintaining the One Step Update service.



So if any of your accounts are setup for Web Connect, quicken stored your user name and password (encrypted) on their servers, then uses them to download your account activity each night. They store this data on their aggregation servers for you to use...
There are several ways that Quicken can connect to get your info from the banks.

This link explains them: https://www.quicken.com/support/how-qui ... -your-bank

Only one uses Quicken's servers as an intermediary.

I prefer to log into directly to the institution and download the ofx file from them when possible.

tesuzuki2002
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Re: Unable to Escape from Quicken Island ...

Post by tesuzuki2002 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:06 pm

I'm really wondering why anyone uses much of any of this software. I don't use much of anything personally.

I keep my investments in Vanguard and have one 401K account that I keep synced up within Vanguard about once a quarter so I can see where I'm at with rebalancing.

I use Mint to keep an eye on all the transactions on my bank accounts and credit cards.. When something is out of ordinary Mint since me a notice to ask me it it's correct.

I have a handful of credit cards I use and pay them off when due.

What exactly are the benefits of using Quicken over free tools that are available online???

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abuss368
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Re: Unable to Escape from Quicken Island ...

Post by abuss368 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:05 pm

JBTX wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:58 am
We probably have a dozen plus credit cards, close to a dozen bank accounts, and at least a couple of dozen different investment accounts across Vanguard, Fidelity, etc. Plus a few more things.
Hi JBTX -

I could not help but notice the very large quantity of accounts from reading your post: 12 bank accounts, 12 credit cards, and 24 investment accounts.

Do you have anyway to simplify? We have one checking account and one credit card and over the years we focused on account consolidation and simplicity.

Best.
John C. Bogle: "You simply do not need to put your money into 8 different mutual funds!" | | Disclosure: Three Fund Portfolio + U.S. & International REITs

JBTX
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Re: Unable to Escape from Quicken Island ...

Post by JBTX » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:29 pm

abuss368 wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:05 pm
JBTX wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:58 am
We probably have a dozen plus credit cards, close to a dozen bank accounts, and at least a couple of dozen different investment accounts across Vanguard, Fidelity, etc. Plus a few more things.
Hi JBTX -

I could not help but notice the very large quantity of accounts from reading your post: 12 bank accounts, 12 credit cards, and 24 investment accounts.

Do you have anyway to simplify? We have one checking account and one credit card and over the years we focused on account consolidation and simplicity.

Best.
Sure, we could simplify. If I had to abandon quicken I may consider it, but why? I have numerous credit cards based on varying incentives - a couple of cash back, a couple are retailer specific with discounts (amazon, target), and several are legacy cards we have had a long time that we keep just because it benefits your long term credit. We probably get $1000-$1500 in ongoing annual recurring cash back rewards, and this year another $1500-$2000 in up front rewards. I am not going to give up several thousand a year in potential rewards just to "simplify" and get rid of quicken.

As to bank accounts, have an online savings account, his and hers and kids accounts with BOA, and his and kids accounts at a local bank. To an extent my wife and I separate certain aspects of our finances.

The investment accounts are mostly a series of different IRA's, Roth's, Rollovers, and 401ks, and a taxable account or two. We could probably combine a few of them, but there is no need to. There is some benefit to keeping the segregation of some of the rollover accounts.

That is what works for us.

With quicken, it isn't terribly difficult. If I had to download everything manually for each account, then in some cases it may not be worth the effort.

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bertilak
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Re: Unable to Escape from Quicken Island ...

Post by bertilak » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:34 pm

tesuzuki2002 wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:06 pm
What exactly are the benefits of using Quicken over free tools that are available online???
You answer your own question with a single letter in the question itself: The final letter "s" on the word "tools."

With Quicken everything is all in one place. No need to crank up a bunch of different tools. If money from a checking account is used to pay a credit card, both accounts in Quicken get updated and are linked together so you can "follow the money" by clicking on the transaction in one account to bring up the register in the other account with the linked transaction having the focus. A single report can include multiple accounts (say tax-related expenses in checking and credit card accounts).

That wordy paragraphs boils down to two advantages:
  1. Simplicity of use
  2. Integrated tracking, reporting, projecting and planning, (Which comes in handy at tax time.)
Yes, it does take a bit of careful set-up to fully realize those advantages, but once set up it is automated until things change: New car loan, refinanced mortgage, etc..
May neither drought nor rain nor blizzard disturb the joy juice in your gizzard. -- Squire Omar Barker, the Cowboy Poet

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TimeRunner
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Re: Unable to Escape from Quicken Island ...

Post by TimeRunner » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:56 pm

One thing that really bugged me about Quicken was the constant reminders on a splash screen to upgrade (for a price) to the next version, and there would always be a checkbox that was supposed to suppress future reminders. The software never honored that - it continued to nag regardless of that preference setting. Others have complained about it, so it's not just my instance. I find that dishonest and disrespectful.
"What'd ya expect in an opera, a happy ending?" -Bugs Bunny. "You gotta fight for your right to party!" -Beastie Boys

Da5id
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Re: Unable to Escape from Quicken Island ...

Post by Da5id » Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:26 am

TimeRunner wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:56 pm
One thing that really bugged me about Quicken was the constant reminders on a splash screen to upgrade (for a price) to the next version, and there would always be a checkbox that was supposed to suppress future reminders. The software never honored that - it continued to nag regardless of that preference setting. Others have complained about it, so it's not just my instance. I find that dishonest and disrespectful.
Me too. No doubt it is a "bug" that they don't honor the checkbox. Oops. Given that new versions have had little to offer me in many years, I find the sales pitch to upgrade (at least in 3 year time of old versions online access) kind of laughable.

JW-Retired
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Re: Unable to Escape from Quicken Island ...

Post by JW-Retired » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:27 am

protagonist wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:45 am
The older versions were great.
Simply enter your data manually and avoid online updates. The time you will spend doing so may be less than the time you spend dealing with Quciken problems. Plus your info remains on your computer and thus is more secure, and you don't have to worry about invasiveness or data mining.
My last update was Quicken 2010. It still does what I want it to do. Intuit probably has no idea who or where I am anymore, as I have not gotten any spam from them in many years.
Same here. Using Quicken since 1999 but never set up any online data collection. Investment company statements and a tiny DIY spreadsheet provide all the investment portfolio tracking we need. We tried the Quicken budgeting for a while but found it to have little value.

All we use it for is the check registers with manual entry. We don't write a lot of checks, but we still choose to hang on to the same 3 checking accounts that we've had forever. We find the Quicken ability to search back many years to find what something cost before, and who did it the last time, to be valuable. Would hate to lose that. Also, Quicken makes reconciling the accounts easy.

We have mostly ignored updates but when the talk about Quicken going away started I did buy/update from maybe 2010(?) to the 2015 version (Windows 7). How long do you think we will be OK with that for what we use if for?
JW
Retired at Last

MikeG62
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Re: Unable to Escape from Quicken Island ...

Post by MikeG62 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:52 am

I abandoned Quicken over 15 years ago and have not looked back since.

Use Fidelity Full View to aggregate all our financial accounts (assets side) and Excel to track and analyze our spending.

While Excel may require a bit more effort, I know it works and is customer designed to exactly meet my needs.
Real Knowledge Comes Only From Experience

WhyNotUs
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Re: Unable to Escape from Quicken Island ...

Post by WhyNotUs » Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:52 am

bertilak wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:34 pm
tesuzuki2002 wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:06 pm
What exactly are the benefits of using Quicken over free tools that are available online???
You answer your own question with a single letter in the question itself: The final letter "s" on the word "tools."

Yes, it does take a bit of careful set-up to fully realize those advantages, but once set up it is automated until things change: New car loan, refinanced mortgage, etc..
Tax form ready information
Decent budget tracking
Good category reports
Info not stored on cloud
I own the next hot stock- VTSAX

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tetractys
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Re: Unable to Escape from Quicken Island ...

Post by tetractys » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:01 am

I have escaped. After trying a few alternatives, migrated to Moneydance. Not perfect; but there's a lot of untapped power under the hood, and the price is fair. I especially like the extensions capabilities. -- Tet

protagonist
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Re: Unable to Escape from Quicken Island ...

Post by protagonist » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:18 am

JW-Retired wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:27 am
protagonist wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:45 am
The older versions were great.
Simply enter your data manually and avoid online updates. The time you will spend doing so may be less than the time you spend dealing with Quciken problems. Plus your info remains on your computer and thus is more secure, and you don't have to worry about invasiveness or data mining.
My last update was Quicken 2010. It still does what I want it to do. Intuit probably has no idea who or where I am anymore, as I have not gotten any spam from them in many years.
Same here. Using Quicken since 1999 but never set up any online data collection. Investment company statements and a tiny DIY spreadsheet provide all the investment portfolio tracking we need. We tried the Quicken budgeting for a while but found it to have little value.

All we use it for is the check registers with manual entry. We don't write a lot of checks, but we still choose to hang on to the same 3 checking accounts that we've had forever. We find the Quicken ability to search back many years to find what something cost before, and who did it the last time, to be valuable. Would hate to lose that. Also, Quicken makes reconciling the accounts easy.

We have mostly ignored updates but when the talk about Quicken going away started I did buy/update from maybe 2010(?) to the 2015 version (Windows 7). How long do you think we will be OK with that for what we use if for?
JW
Much of the functionality of Quicken has disappeared over this past decade as investment firms and banks have their own record-keeping websites, and as people have shifted away from writing checks. Plus as an index investor it is unnecessary to update stock prices. LIke you, I reconcile my statements on Quicken 2010 manually every few months (I should do it monthly but I get lazy). It takes me the equivalent of probably about 15 minutes a month, 30 on the outside. And once a year or so I use Open Office's Excel-like spreadsheet to update my portfolio, net worth, asset allocation percentage, etc. Not much work really. At tax time I print out relevant tax data from Quicken. I don't find Quicken useful for much else these days, other than occasionally accessing archived data as you mentioned. If I lost my 20-something years of Quicken data tomorrow I don't think I would lose much sleep over it.

Starting From Scratch
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Re: Unable to Escape from Quicken Island ...

Post by Starting From Scratch » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:26 am

tetractys wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:01 am
I have escaped. After trying a few alternatives, migrated to Moneydance. Not perfect; but there's a lot of untapped power under the hood, and the price is fair. I especially like the extensions capabilities. -- Tet
In the attempt to find a Quicken replacement, I’ve been using Mondance for about a week.

Currently, there is a problem downloading security prices, both current and historical prices. In addition, there is no ability to Add or Remove shares. The workaround is to Buy or Sell with zero price and zero amount which messes with cost basis. When importing investment transactions, it automatically sets category to ATM Withdrawal and it will not let you leave it blank or delete it. Very annoying.

The search continues…

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tetractys
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Re: Unable to Escape from Quicken Island ...

Post by tetractys » Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:03 pm

Starting From Scratch wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:26 am
tetractys wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:01 am
I have escaped. After trying a few alternatives, migrated to Moneydance. Not perfect; but there's a lot of untapped power under the hood, and the price is fair. I especially like the extensions capabilities. -- Tet
In the attempt to find a Quicken replacement, I’ve been using Mondance for about a week.

Currently, there is a problem downloading security prices, both current and historical prices. In addition, there is no ability to Add or Remove shares. The workaround is to Buy or Sell with zero price and zero amount which messes with cost basis. When importing investment transactions, it automatically sets category to ATM Withdrawal and it will not let you leave it blank or delete it. Very annoying.

The search continues…
That is annoying, and clumsy. There are ways to deal with it though. I don't know your situation and I'm no expert; but for example you can start an account at a pre-specified cash amount, or you can use "Div", or you can set up a pre-account. I have an inherited IRA and am still trying to figure out the best way.

The quotes problem right now is common across several programs that use Yahoo. We'll see what develops. -- Tet

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