Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
A relative is helping an elderly uncle who has been a nursing-home resident for three months now. To his doctor he appears to have a good mind yet, so Power of Attorney has not been authorized so far. Some of his sizable vulnerable assets were sold at his direction at the beginning of his most recent illness. Payment arrived three months ago in his mailbox and was taken for safekeeping by the younger relative temporarily. The relative wants to get the elderly uncle, now feeling much better, to counter-sign the checks so they can be deposited into the uncle's bank account. He refuses to do this. Without Power of Attorney assigned (though it's in the plan), what should the younger relative to do with the checks in the meantime? The elderly uncle is also balking at paying the long-term care bill, despite having the means to do so and having already exhausted the period that Medicare will cover some cost of care after a hospitalization. “Stop pressuring me!” is his response. There is a history of eccentricity: The uncle has always been protective about his finances, but this is not medically documented. We need help knowing how to proceed. Is it possible to place checks into someone's account without his permission or a counter-signature on the checks? Thank you in advance for good ideas.
Re: Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
Most banks have rules in their customer agreements that allow the bank to accept items for deposit and that the bank can supply any missing endorsement. Usually someone can walk into a branch with a deposit slip and an item for deposit and as long as it is clear that the check belongs to the same person indicated on the deposit slip they will simply process the deposit and hand the depositer a receipt indicating the amount of the deposit and the account number the deposit was applied to.
The closest helping hand is at the end of your own arm.
Re: Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
I agree, I have written "for deposit only to account number 123" and the checks were deposited without a problem.
It sounds like he is not understanding that he needs to pay his bills. A treatment guardian may be needed in addition to a Durable POA.
lafder
It sounds like he is not understanding that he needs to pay his bills. A treatment guardian may be needed in addition to a Durable POA.
lafder
Re: Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
I think you can endorse the check as for deposit only.
Re: Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
Yeah I've never had a problem doing deposits for other family or friends. I don't even sign it at all. Just write "for deposit only" and take it to a teller or put in an envelope and drop in their deposit slot or night drop. I've never had even an account number to go with it and they end up being posted just fine. I've had to help do deposits at at least four different banks in the last 15 years.
Re: Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
Anyone can deposit Checks made out to John Doe to John Doe's checking account as long as you know the acct. number without needing John Doe's signature.
However, I would NOT do it as it may create mistrust/paranoia.
However, I would NOT do it as it may create mistrust/paranoia.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln
Re: Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
This seems a bit weird to me.harmony wrote:The elderly uncle is also balking at paying the long-term care bill, despite having the means to do so and having already exhausted the period that Medicare will cover some cost of care after a hospitalization. “Stop pressuring me!” is his response.
"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln
Re: Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
An option is for everyone to just walk away. You don't need the problems.
A different alternative is you or someone might have to petition to have him declared incompetent and have a conservator appointed. There are several variations of this. Serving as guardian or conservator is an onerous task. Getting that declared is likely to be unpleasant.
A question would be where the rest of the family is on this.
A different alternative is you or someone might have to petition to have him declared incompetent and have a conservator appointed. There are several variations of this. Serving as guardian or conservator is an onerous task. Getting that declared is likely to be unpleasant.
A question would be where the rest of the family is on this.
Re: Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
When I mail in a check for deposit for myself, I always write on the back For deposit only to my (type of) account ending in xx and sign my name. It sounds like this may not be enough for the uncle to feel comfortable with, so if that's the case I would just go ahead and deposit them.
As noted I think no signature is required, but presumably at least partial account number(s) are. Does the younger relative have those? Checks that are not deposited after a certain amount of time will have to be reissued. Depositing them gets one problem off the list.
If the elderly relative does not pay his nursing home bills, what does he expect to do when they say pay or leave?
As noted I think no signature is required, but presumably at least partial account number(s) are. Does the younger relative have those? Checks that are not deposited after a certain amount of time will have to be reissued. Depositing them gets one problem off the list.
If the elderly relative does not pay his nursing home bills, what does he expect to do when they say pay or leave?
Re: Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
I think that ship has sailed.denovo wrote:Anyone can deposit Checks made out to John Doe to John Doe's checking account as long as you know the acct. number without needing John Doe's signature.
However, I would NOT do it as it may create mistrust/paranoia.
Re: Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
What does the uncle want done with the checks? I agree that if endorsed "For deposit only to the account of xxx", banks are likely to accept the deposits if the name matches.harmony wrote:A relative is helping an elderly uncle who has been a nursing-home resident for three months now. To his doctor he appears to have a good mind yet, so Power of Attorney has not been authorized so far. Some of his sizable vulnerable assets were sold at his direction at the beginning of his most recent illness. Payment arrived three months ago in his mailbox and was taken for safekeeping by the younger relative temporarily. The relative wants to get the elderly uncle, now feeling much better, to counter-sign the checks so they can be deposited into the uncle's bank account. He refuses to do this. Without Power of Attorney assigned (though it's in the plan), what should the younger relative to do with the checks in the meantime? The elderly uncle is also balking at paying the long-term care bill, despite having the means to do so and having already exhausted the period that Medicare will cover some cost of care after a hospitalization. “Stop pressuring me!” is his response. There is a history of eccentricity: The uncle has always been protective about his finances, but this is not medically documented. We need help knowing how to proceed. Is it possible to place checks into someone's account without his permission or a counter-signature on the checks? Thank you in advance for good ideas.
What do you mean "Power of Attorney has not been authorized so far"? Is there some kind on one setup that can go into effect if/when he reaches a certain condition?
Sometimes such folks can work better with non-relatives. Does the facility have some kind of "social worker" that could get involved?
Re: Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
I have always had no problems depositing checks with "For Deposit Only" and the account number written in the endorsement - until one time.... (actually twice, two different banks):
*Ally bank does NOT allow this type of endorsement.
While I have had several checks deposited this way, I had one occasion in which they refused the deposit.
*Capital One / Capital One 360 also has weird policies.
My wife had a car destroyed by flood that was covered by comprehensive insurance. The car was titled to her name, the auto policy was in both of our names. The insurance check was made to both of us. When she attempted to deposit the check to our joint Capital One 360 checking they insisted on both of us endorsing the check. (Capital One local branches do accept deposits for Capital One 360, even at the teller, which was news to me.)
*Ally bank does NOT allow this type of endorsement.
While I have had several checks deposited this way, I had one occasion in which they refused the deposit.
*Capital One / Capital One 360 also has weird policies.
My wife had a car destroyed by flood that was covered by comprehensive insurance. The car was titled to her name, the auto policy was in both of our names. The insurance check was made to both of us. When she attempted to deposit the check to our joint Capital One 360 checking they insisted on both of us endorsing the check. (Capital One local branches do accept deposits for Capital One 360, even at the teller, which was news to me.)
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Re: Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
> To his doctor he appears to have a good mind
I wonder if the doctor will feel the same way if you explain the guy is not paying his bills.
I wonder if the doctor will feel the same way if you explain the guy is not paying his bills.
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Re: Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
There is a segment of society where bill paying is not a priority and none dare call them not of good mind.adamthesmythe wrote:> To his doctor he appears to have a good mind
I wonder if the doctor will feel the same way if you explain the guy is not paying his bills.
Re: Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
This will probably change if he stops paying the doctor bills.adamthesmythe wrote:> To his doctor he appears to have a good mind
I wonder if the doctor will feel the same way if you explain the guy is not paying his bills.
Re: Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
The type of check that banks and credit unions are the most strict about are US Treasury checks.
Re: Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
Families can do odd things when it comes to money. In the case of an elderly relative, there is legitimate concern of being taken advantage of by family members. Elder abuse is a big problem in today's society.
A fool and his money are good for business.
Re: Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
His nieces and nephews (he has no children) all want him to be cared for near the end of his life of frugality and selective avoidance of some medical care. We have seen the pain that his mistrust of medicine, postponing care, and hoarding of financial assets have caused him. We are worried that his not taking financial responsibility now could curtail his care options such as retaining his spot in his current nursing home, or moving to a different nursing home which is closer to most of his family. The uncle has asked several times to be moved closer to family, though he doesn't always recall where his current care center is located. He has been put on a waiting list for a nearer care center. We wonder if we could tell him that he'd be more likely be accepted at the new care center if they know in advance that the bills would be paid reliably by someone with POA. (That could make him threaten to stay put though.)
The uncle has expressed a belief that if he doesn't pay his medical bills, eventually the provider will stop asking for payment. Though his financial mind may appear good (he even asked for his Barron's magazines to be brought to his room), the relative who is helping him sees many slip-ups with his finances of the past year or so. My relative told me this morning he plans to wait for the current care center staff to petition the uncle's physician to take another look at his mental competence. This will take the burden off of my relative and preserve what trust they have. The uncle's paranoia is toward societal institutions. Usually he ends up giving in, but seems to show a lot of bluster for family. Has anyone ever had a relative evicted for not paying a nursing home on time?
We wonder how care centers handle non-payment for residents like this. If we understand Medicare Advantage rules, the care center is not allowed to evict anyone who is a recipient of Medicare funding. Thus while they are still waiting for payment from MA for potentially “covered” care, perhaps the care center won't evict him. No one (not the family nor the nursing staff) wants to appear to be pushing for POA for obvious reasons. Yes, we could all walk away, but then who/how/when would his bills get paid?
The uncle has expressed a belief that if he doesn't pay his medical bills, eventually the provider will stop asking for payment. Though his financial mind may appear good (he even asked for his Barron's magazines to be brought to his room), the relative who is helping him sees many slip-ups with his finances of the past year or so. My relative told me this morning he plans to wait for the current care center staff to petition the uncle's physician to take another look at his mental competence. This will take the burden off of my relative and preserve what trust they have. The uncle's paranoia is toward societal institutions. Usually he ends up giving in, but seems to show a lot of bluster for family. Has anyone ever had a relative evicted for not paying a nursing home on time?
We wonder how care centers handle non-payment for residents like this. If we understand Medicare Advantage rules, the care center is not allowed to evict anyone who is a recipient of Medicare funding. Thus while they are still waiting for payment from MA for potentially “covered” care, perhaps the care center won't evict him. No one (not the family nor the nursing staff) wants to appear to be pushing for POA for obvious reasons. Yes, we could all walk away, but then who/how/when would his bills get paid?
Re: Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
I mentioned walking away as a logically possible alternative rather than urging anyone to actually do it, but the answer to the above question is that if you do walk away you also don't have to deal with that question any more. The life threatening stress to you of having to deal with stuff like that is a price you can avoid paying. Otherwise you are signing up to be recognized as a saint. Believe me, there are reasons I know these things.harmony wrote: Yes, we could all walk away, but then who/how/when would his bills get paid?
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Re: Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
Sorry for your difficult situation. Relatives who don't accept their diminishing abilities, and won't/can't take the steps needed for their own safety and responsibility (e.g., paying bills), are in a very difficult situation.
States vary widely in the laws and regulations about an independent adult who isn't really fully functioning that way. Resources also widely vary.
Perhaps an elder law attorney? What about a social worker?
There may be ways to reassure your uncle. Could one relative be designated the bill payer/financial administrator, and another designated to be the transaction reviewer? Preferably from different sides of the family, so that the uncle is less likely to think collusion.
Care facilities and medical providers will simply turn him over to collections if he is not paying his bills. If he has money in the banks, it will be taken.
Not sure about what protection a MedAdvantage program might give him re: eviction from his care center, but I'm sure they've encountered this before, and will implement their steps as needed. I'm sure they have a social worker/discharge planner. You could try talking to that person/office - but I'm not sure it's a great idea to give them a heads up?
States vary widely in the laws and regulations about an independent adult who isn't really fully functioning that way. Resources also widely vary.
Perhaps an elder law attorney? What about a social worker?
There may be ways to reassure your uncle. Could one relative be designated the bill payer/financial administrator, and another designated to be the transaction reviewer? Preferably from different sides of the family, so that the uncle is less likely to think collusion.
Care facilities and medical providers will simply turn him over to collections if he is not paying his bills. If he has money in the banks, it will be taken.
Not sure about what protection a MedAdvantage program might give him re: eviction from his care center, but I'm sure they've encountered this before, and will implement their steps as needed. I'm sure they have a social worker/discharge planner. You could try talking to that person/office - but I'm not sure it's a great idea to give them a heads up?
Re: Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
This is a difficult situation. Since known of us know your uncle, only your family will be able to evaluate what techniques might work. The uncle has said "Stop pressuring me." In my experience, your best chance with this type of person is to give them "a little room" to make it seem like they are making the decision. This is similar to when you lay out several outfits for a 5 year old to choose from in order to get them not to wear PJ's to school.
I believe you said asking him to sign a check to allow it to be deposited has not worked. So then take the check to him and ask him what should be done with it with as much sincereity as possible. Express concern that if something is done soon the check will become worth nothing and he and you certainly do not want that. Maybe he has more than one account and you can ask him where would be best. Most people in his situation feel like they are loosing control and their opinions and voice are not reespected. Sometimes, they are in fact loosing control and their opinions are not reasonable. But it is probably best not to make him face this fact head on. Of course, all this may not matter if he truly will never cooperate. Have you referred to the nursing home bill as rent and food or as an institution. The former may also be easier on the uncle to agree to pay.
I believe you said asking him to sign a check to allow it to be deposited has not worked. So then take the check to him and ask him what should be done with it with as much sincereity as possible. Express concern that if something is done soon the check will become worth nothing and he and you certainly do not want that. Maybe he has more than one account and you can ask him where would be best. Most people in his situation feel like they are loosing control and their opinions and voice are not reespected. Sometimes, they are in fact loosing control and their opinions are not reasonable. But it is probably best not to make him face this fact head on. Of course, all this may not matter if he truly will never cooperate. Have you referred to the nursing home bill as rent and food or as an institution. The former may also be easier on the uncle to agree to pay.
Re: Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
I had a similar experience. Elderly relative did not want a $7k or $8k bill for the month for the nursing home paid; directed us to write a check for $500 or so dollars, that relative would sign, as that is all they "deserved."
We had previously asked the nursing home for help in having the relative declared financially incompetent, and the nursing home had refused, stating they saw no evidence of that. This was in a state that made a distinction between making financial vs medical competence.
So when the relative did not want to pay it was a actually a gift in disguise. I documented EVERYTHING in writing, first among the other relatives involved, and then sent the nursing home financial administrator a note. This relative was on private pay, and had resources for a significant duration of private pay, so the nursing home realized they may lose a nice revenue stream. The note to the administrator confirmed the relative had the assets, and advised the relative only wanted to pay about $500. It also reiterated that the other relatives wanted to pay the full invoice, but since we did not have financial POA, our hands were tied. All we could do was bring the checkbook, write out the check, but if our relative would not sign, there was nothing to be done.
I never saw that nursing home move so fast as they did after they got that email - they replied in 20 minutes. They first tried to cajole the relative into paying, which made the relative even more resistant. Then they facilitated a stopgap measure to get the relative to agree to give one of us financial POA, so we could pay the bill. That got accomplished in less than a week. I think it involved threats to kick the relative out onto the steet, although I'm not sure they were legally allowed to do that or even threaten that. They also supported our starting the process to have the relative declared incompetent so relative could not empty out the account from which we were paying the bills. This is a months long process, and the nursing home lost some interest in helping on this when they were being paid. When the relative emptied out an account from which they were being paid, and came very close to getting a 5 figure amount of cash in their possession in the nursing home, the home regained interest very quickly. We were in this process when the relative passed away.
Moral of the story: Money talks.
We had previously asked the nursing home for help in having the relative declared financially incompetent, and the nursing home had refused, stating they saw no evidence of that. This was in a state that made a distinction between making financial vs medical competence.
So when the relative did not want to pay it was a actually a gift in disguise. I documented EVERYTHING in writing, first among the other relatives involved, and then sent the nursing home financial administrator a note. This relative was on private pay, and had resources for a significant duration of private pay, so the nursing home realized they may lose a nice revenue stream. The note to the administrator confirmed the relative had the assets, and advised the relative only wanted to pay about $500. It also reiterated that the other relatives wanted to pay the full invoice, but since we did not have financial POA, our hands were tied. All we could do was bring the checkbook, write out the check, but if our relative would not sign, there was nothing to be done.
I never saw that nursing home move so fast as they did after they got that email - they replied in 20 minutes. They first tried to cajole the relative into paying, which made the relative even more resistant. Then they facilitated a stopgap measure to get the relative to agree to give one of us financial POA, so we could pay the bill. That got accomplished in less than a week. I think it involved threats to kick the relative out onto the steet, although I'm not sure they were legally allowed to do that or even threaten that. They also supported our starting the process to have the relative declared incompetent so relative could not empty out the account from which we were paying the bills. This is a months long process, and the nursing home lost some interest in helping on this when they were being paid. When the relative emptied out an account from which they were being paid, and came very close to getting a 5 figure amount of cash in their possession in the nursing home, the home regained interest very quickly. We were in this process when the relative passed away.
Moral of the story: Money talks.
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Re: Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
You have to have capacity in order to sign a power of attorney so waiting until incapacity to get one signed is error.harmony wrote:To his doctor he appears to have a good mind yet, so Power of Attorney has not been authorized so far.
Without Power of Attorney assigned (though it's in the plan), what should the younger relative to do with the checks in the meantime?
Sounds like from what you've alleged, however, the uncle may already be incapacitated.
You are soon to be in guardianship court. Good luck.
Re: Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
I am busy tonight preparing for my own minor surgery tomorrow morning so I won't be following comments if there are any more tomorrow. I will read and respond again as soon as I am able. Thank you very much to everyone who has continued to respond.
I am not sure, but isn't there a type of POA that takes effect if/when a physician signs off on it? If I recall correctly, you sign a document in advance that says “in the event of my incapacity, certified as such by my physician, then I appoint so-and-so to exercise power of attorney on my behalf” or something similar. Ideally the uncle would easily recognize his own looming incapacity and willingly give POA to the person he had begged to be his executor. But now that we are at this point, we are looking for the physician to sign off on it. If a POA was signed by the uncle, as we assumed, then we thought his doctor's signature would be what would cause it to go into effect when/if he became incapacitated. Perhaps the uncle has never had explained what the POA designation could do for him; or if his lawyer did explain it to him, perhaps he completely rejected the idea because of his paranoia. Perhaps the intended executor should ask the uncle's lawyer whether he and our uncle ever discussed this and if he signed a POA.
I am not sure, but isn't there a type of POA that takes effect if/when a physician signs off on it? If I recall correctly, you sign a document in advance that says “in the event of my incapacity, certified as such by my physician, then I appoint so-and-so to exercise power of attorney on my behalf” or something similar. Ideally the uncle would easily recognize his own looming incapacity and willingly give POA to the person he had begged to be his executor. But now that we are at this point, we are looking for the physician to sign off on it. If a POA was signed by the uncle, as we assumed, then we thought his doctor's signature would be what would cause it to go into effect when/if he became incapacitated. Perhaps the uncle has never had explained what the POA designation could do for him; or if his lawyer did explain it to him, perhaps he completely rejected the idea because of his paranoia. Perhaps the intended executor should ask the uncle's lawyer whether he and our uncle ever discussed this and if he signed a POA.
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Re: Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
Harmony, hope you are feeling better soon!
Also, it seems odd to me that your uncle didn't sign something on admission to the facility. In cases I'm familiar with, part of the admission process was designating an alternate decision-maker if the resident became incapacitated at the facility. And person(s) responsible for handling the resident's finances were also clearly delineated in admission documents. If you can talk to the facility's social worker, you may be able to find out if such documents were signed on admission, though confidentiality may prevent release of specifics about those documents if the uncle has disallowed it.
Best wishes for your own speedy recovery and blessings to you and your extended family for helping a relative under difficult circumstances
Sounds like you're thinking of Durable Power of Attorney for Health Care. I've never seen a doc sign off on a DPOA form per se, but I have seen them reference it in progress notes and elsewhere in the medical record. Usually it's a comment by the doc that the patient is unable to make decisions and the DPOA designates such-and-such person as alternate decision maker, and that person is now being consulted on various aspects of care.harmony wrote: isn't there a type of POA that takes effect if/when a physician signs off on it?
That sounds like an excellent idea. If the attorney is someone the uncle trusts, and if the uncle is still competent to sign a DPOA, then you can let the attorney take the heat for raising the subject of a DPOA instead of family if no DPOA has ever been signed. Be sure to find out from the attorney if the DPOA allows you to handle all healthcare-related finances or whether other legal measures need to be taken.if his lawyer did explain it to him, perhaps he completely rejected the idea because of his paranoia. Perhaps the intended executor should ask the uncle's lawyer whether he and our uncle ever discussed this and if he signed a POA.
Also, it seems odd to me that your uncle didn't sign something on admission to the facility. In cases I'm familiar with, part of the admission process was designating an alternate decision-maker if the resident became incapacitated at the facility. And person(s) responsible for handling the resident's finances were also clearly delineated in admission documents. If you can talk to the facility's social worker, you may be able to find out if such documents were signed on admission, though confidentiality may prevent release of specifics about those documents if the uncle has disallowed it.
Best wishes for your own speedy recovery and blessings to you and your extended family for helping a relative under difficult circumstances
Re: Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
There are two scenarios:
1. Someone else has POA. They can write checks, pay bills, sell assets, move money around, etc. The POA is granted by the person for whom you have it. Usually they execute it prior to becoming mentally incapacitated. Often the person who received POA won't do anything with it until the person can't handle their own finances. Some nursing homes require residents to select a person to have a POA and execute the POA.
The POA is just having another person who can handle finances; it does not prevent the elderly relative for whom someone has POA from also doing the same things. Sometimes this does not matter as the elderly person is too incapacitated to navigate doing anything financial. However, sometimes they are just delusional, and still have the mental ability to access accounts, etc. This is the situation in which just a POA would be a problem.
2. Elderly person is declared incapacitated. This is difficult. There is a pretty high standard for this. Someone else would still need POA, but the elderly person would be barred from acting financially on their own behalf.
1. Someone else has POA. They can write checks, pay bills, sell assets, move money around, etc. The POA is granted by the person for whom you have it. Usually they execute it prior to becoming mentally incapacitated. Often the person who received POA won't do anything with it until the person can't handle their own finances. Some nursing homes require residents to select a person to have a POA and execute the POA.
The POA is just having another person who can handle finances; it does not prevent the elderly relative for whom someone has POA from also doing the same things. Sometimes this does not matter as the elderly person is too incapacitated to navigate doing anything financial. However, sometimes they are just delusional, and still have the mental ability to access accounts, etc. This is the situation in which just a POA would be a problem.
2. Elderly person is declared incapacitated. This is difficult. There is a pretty high standard for this. Someone else would still need POA, but the elderly person would be barred from acting financially on their own behalf.
Re: Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
I am not a lawyer, but this sounds like what I have heard called a "springing power of attorney," as opposed to a "durable power of attorney."harmony wrote: I am not sure, but isn't there a type of POA that takes effect if/when a physician signs off on it? If I recall correctly, you sign a document in advance that says “in the event of my incapacity, certified as such by my physician, then I appoint so-and-so to exercise power of attorney on my behalf” or something similar.
According to the first thing that comes up in google if I search on "springing power of attorney" ...
Source: https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/investi ... -attorney/A springing power of attorney is called that because it “springs” into action if you become incapacitated. Durable power of attorney becomes effective as soon as you sign the document, and continues to be effective if you are incapacitated ... If you do choose a springing power of attorney, you should be sure to define exactly what kind of event and incapacitation means the power of attorney goes into effect.
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Re: Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
Also, the person who grants a POA can revoke it at any time if s/he becomes dissatisfied with the way their designee is using their POA powers. (The only way to preempt revocation would to prove that the revoker has become incompetent, a high burden of proof and potentially a messy and costly legal process.)Saving$ wrote:There are two scenarios:
1. Someone else has POA. They can write checks, pay bills, sell assets, move money around, etc. The POA is granted by the person for whom you have it. Usually they execute it prior to becoming mentally incapacitated. Often the person who received POA won't do anything with it until the person can't handle their own finances. Some nursing homes require residents to select a person to have a POA and execute the POA.
The POA is just having another person who can handle finances; it does not prevent the elderly relative for whom someone has POA from also doing the same things.
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Re: Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
Does the uncle want to stay at the nursing home? It sounds like he went there for rehab services, since Medicare has been paying for it so far. Maybe he wants to go home, and would refuse to authorize checks to pay for staying somewhere he doesn't want to be. It's great that he has money to pay for his care, but getting him to agree to that care may be a struggle.
From the OP, I assumed that a springing POA had been assigned, but that the certification that would cause that to be activated had not yet happened. Probably a social worker at the nursing home can help the family set up the medical evaluations that could lead to that doctor certification.
From the OP, I assumed that a springing POA had been assigned, but that the certification that would cause that to be activated had not yet happened. Probably a social worker at the nursing home can help the family set up the medical evaluations that could lead to that doctor certification.
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Re: Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
Just deposit the checks. This is what my wife does eventhough she is on the account. She does not sign the check. His bank, Bank of America is ok with putting the check in his account with no signature. She has account number and id if needed. You state Uncle needs to counter-sign the check WHY?harmony wrote:A relative is helping an elderly uncle who has been a nursing-home resident for three months now. To his doctor he appears to have a good mind yet, so Power of Attorney has not been authorized so far. Some of his sizable vulnerable assets were sold at his direction at the beginning of his most recent illness. Payment arrived three months ago in his mailbox and was taken for safekeeping by the younger relative temporarily. The relative wants to get the elderly uncle, now feeling much better, to counter-sign the checks so they can be deposited into the uncle's bank account. He refuses to do this. Without Power of Attorney assigned (though it's in the plan), what should the younger relative to do with the checks in the meantime? The elderly uncle is also balking at paying the long-term care bill, despite having the means to do so and having already exhausted the period that Medicare will cover some cost of care after a hospitalization. “Stop pressuring me!” is his response. There is a history of eccentricity: The uncle has always been protective about his finances, but this is not medically documented. We need help knowing how to proceed. Is it possible to place checks into someone's account without his permission or a counter-signature on the checks? Thank you in advance for good ideas.
About the medical payments, that will be his problem. Nothing you can do about it. He will decide when to pay.
Elderly people get older and become more concerned about going broke. Especially when family involve because family and money can get ugly. Even when they act if they are doing what is in the best interest for the person.
If no power of attorney, who is on his account with him if any. This would have to be a trusted person. When my wife took over her dads finances she had to close accounts and reopend accounts with his and her name. Why she found her sibling have been taking money and using his credit card.
You just have to do what your Uncle wants. It's that easy.
- Uncle Pennybags
- Posts: 1835
- Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:05 am
Re: Elderly Relative Reluctant to give POA
I'm on the uncle's side. Gray power.dodecahedron wrote:Also, the person who grants a POA can revoke it at any time if s/he becomes dissatisfied with the way their designee is using their POA powers. (The only way to preempt revocation would to prove that the revoker has become incompetent, a high burden of proof and potentially a messy and costly legal process.)