Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

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darkhorse346
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Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by darkhorse346 »

I've been with Vanguard for a long time and have had no problems. Having said that, my family's needs are going to expand beyond picking good, low-cost target retirement funds for IRAs in the next few years. I'm knowledgeable about mutual funds and do not have a need for an advisor. Spouse has zero interest in the investing process, but understands the need to invest to build wealth for retirement, college, etc. We have no plans to use ETFs at this time.

Along with continuing to invest for our retirement, sadly, we'll begin to inherit IRAs and other assets over the next few years. To the greatest extent possible, we want to make sure we minimize the "hassle factor" while still having access to great, low cost mutual funds. Hassle factor meaning paying unnecessary taxes due to paperwork errors, long waits on phone calls, and any other frustrating, time consuming, costly, and bureaucratic experience for me AND my spouse.

I'm evaluating whether to stay with Vanguard or move to Schwab or Fidelity given our situation. I'm interested in getting the opinions of people who have gone through similar circumstances already.

Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity, all provide good, low cost funds. The deciding factor is which one will minimize hassle factor risk? Thank you.
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by radiowave »

I'm not sure what you mean by "hassle factor"? All three brokerages are well regarded here on the forum. If you have Vanguard and are overall satisfied with the funds and services, why change? If you are moving funds from VG to Fidelity or Schwab from a taxable account, you may not be able to keep them or at the least, would be costly and more hassle to work with say VG VTSAX Total Stock fund within Fidelity or Schwab. There have been some complaints regarding VG telephone support, perhaps this is a sign of growing pains.

What are your goals for your investments. If to let them grow over a long period of time and you are occasionally adding funds, then any 3 will suffice. It doesn't sound like you are day trading, and don't want ETFs. VG seems to suit your needs now.
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infotrader
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by infotrader »

I have both Fidelity and Vanguard at 60%/40% asset allocation. I have been with both for over 15 years.

Both are good, but I decided to move all assets to Vanguard to avoid the hassle of having multiple accounts:
1) I live vghax and vhcox and other ETFs like vgt.
2) To achieve the flagship status at vanguard.

I am not sure if I can completely get rid of Fidelity, since I really like fnmix.
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by livesoft »

A local office can be helpful as long as good people staff them and turnover is low.

I think you have to do some test runs by having accounts at all of them (add TDAmeritrade, too), then make your own personal decision. You may decide to consolidate … or not.

We found hassles everywhere, but different ones at each place, so we decided not to consolidate.
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by stlutz »

If you definitely want to use mutual funds and not ETFs, the answer is Vanguard. Fido and Schwab have excellent, low-cost index mutual funds available. But Vanguard is still the clear leader in this regard. If you haven't had any issues with them, why change?
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by darkhorse346 »

livesoft wrote:A local office can be helpful as long as good people staff them and turnover is low.

I think you have to do some test runs by having accounts at all of them (add TDAmeritrade, too), then make your own personal decision. You may decide to consolidate … or not.

We found hassles everywhere, but different ones at each place, so we decided not to consolidate.
Thank you, livesoft. Good suggestions.

Unfortunately, the closest two Fidelity offices are 1.5 hours away. We could make the drive if we had to. Schwab is local, but by appointment only.

Fidelity and Schwab seem like they have better online and phone resources than Vanguard. Had not really considered TDA. We'll look at them too.

I know that we want to consolidate at one firm to simplify.
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by livesoft »

TDAm will not have mutual funds worth using, but that reduces a hassle factor: One will not have to learn anything about Average Cost Basis since ETFs will also use Specific Identification anyways. :)

Because I have my i401(k) at TDAm and now my spouse's employer switched their 401(k) custodian to TDAm we have most of our assets at TDAmeritrade with a very convenient walk-in office. WellsFargo is next door, Fidelity is across the street, and Schwab is also close. I like Vanguard because the assets are sequestered away from the others.

So we use TDAm, WellsFargo, Vanguard, and Fidelity, but not Schwab. The reality is that very very few transactions actually occur because just about everything is automated. For instance, I haven't bought nor sold anything in our Fidelity taxable account since the early 1990's. Dividends are sent automatically to our checking account at WellsFargo.
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by darkhorse346 »

I'd like to get some real world experiences from people who had to deal with inheritances, MRDs, etc. at Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity.

Thank you.
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by tc101 »

I have accounts at all 3. Vanguard is the slowest to pick up the phone, but it is still not too bad.

10 years ago I dealt with inheritance issues through Vanguard, and everything went smoothly.
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by livesoft »

darkhorse346 wrote:I'd like to get some real world experiences from people who had to deal with inheritances, MRDs, etc. at Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity.

Thank you.
My mom had accounts at Fidelity. That's the reason I have an inherited IRA at Fidelity. It has an RMD. Fidelity calculates the RMD and I request that my RMD go to an external checking account. Trivial.

My MIL had accounts all over. My spouse has an inherited IRA at Vanguard. It has an RMD. Vanguard calculates the RMD and my spouse requests that her RMD go into an external checking account. Trivial.

Each of our inherited IRAs has one single bond fund in it. Monthly dividends are automatically reinvested. There is no rebalancing to be done in either account.

Both Fidelity and Vanguard have appropriate and accurate 1099-R for all our accounts held with them including the inherited IRAs.

I think WellsTrade has the best 1099-B and 1099-DIV in terms of accuracy, timeliness, and ease of use at tax time.
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by student »

I have accounts with all 3. In my experience, Fidelity and Schwab have better customer service. But just the other day, I have to call Vanguard and someone picked up the phone right away.
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by FedGuy »

darkhorse346 wrote:Schwab is local, but by appointment only.
Given this, and your interest in minimizing hassle, I say go with Schwab. It makes things so much easier if you can just drop by your local branch--whether or not you have to call them to let them know you're coming--to drop off a check from a relative's estate, a 401(k) inheritance, or whatever. I have local branches of both Schwab and Fidelity and have found both of them extremely helpful whenever I have questions or issues, even for something as mundane (yet important) as glancing over my forms and noting that I missed a signature or something. Really, if you're trying to minimize hassle and especially if you expect to be receiving checks, distributions, estate forms, and so on, there's a tremendous benefit to having a local office to help you out.
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by ruralavalon »

darkhorse346 wrote:I'd like to get some real world experiences from people who had to deal with inheritances, MRDs, etc. at Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity.

Thank you.
Our accounts are all at Vanguard, they have handled the Required Minimum Distributions very well and hassle free.

I have never had any difficulty or delay with our rare phone consultations.

I have no experience with inherited IRAs.
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by darkhorse346 »

livesoft wrote:
darkhorse346 wrote:I'd like to get some real world experiences from people who had to deal with inheritances, MRDs, etc. at Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity.

Thank you.
I think WellsTrade has the best 1099-B and 1099-DIV in terms of accuracy, timeliness, and ease of use at tax time.
We've got multiple Wells Fargo banks in town if we needed to deal with paperwork. Does WellsTrade offer a good selection of index and/or low cost NTF funds? What about account fees, etc?
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by livesoft »

darkhorse346 wrote:We've got multiple Wells Fargo banks in town if we needed to deal with paperwork. Does WellsTrade offer a good selection of index and/or low cost NTF funds? What about account fees, etc?
The people in the WF banks have no relationship to the low-cost discount do-it-yourself broker called WellsTrade. However, one logs into the same web site for the bank and brokerage which are nicely integrated with each other.

For instance, if you walked into a WellsFargo bank and asked them about the discount broker called WellsTrade, they would probably think you were crazy and were making up a story. One cannot take WellsTrade paperwork into a WellsFargo branch and get anything done with it. WellsTrade paperwork is sent electronically to them, or by fax, or by mail.

I am grandfathered into the no-fee deal and hold Vanguard products at WellsTrade. My local bank is WellsFargo which is a superb no-fee bank for me including overseas ATMs. You can see their features at their web site.

WellsFargo has high fee products, too, which can easily be avoided.
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by fourwheelcycle »

About eight years ago I was POA and then executor for my aunt. All of her savings was in bank CDs and Treasury bills. As the CDs and T bills matured I consolidated all of her money at Vanguard and then distributed her remaining funds to her heirs after her death. Vanguard was very helpful and everything went smoothly.

Currently I am POA for my father and I will be his executor when he dies. He has been living off his pension, SS and IRA. I have worked with him to consolidate his IRA and his taxable assets at Vanguard. Vanguard has helped me set up his RMDs with no problems and the IRA is now almost down to zero.

In order to avoid traveling to his home state for probate I have set up all of his brokerage assets as TOD equally to his five children. I have connected with Vanguard's Transition team (how's that for a euphemism). They told me they will transfer each of his assets to his named TOD children as stepped-up equity and bond holdings, or sell each child's due holdings and deposit cash in their settlement funds, as they wish, after his death. I feel reassured that everything will go smoothly.

Some of my siblings have current Vanguard accounts and others will have to open accounts in order to receive their due holdings or the cash proceeds. Vanguard has said my siblings can open new accounts, receive their holdings or cash, and then transfer out the holdings or cash and close the accounts if that is what they want to do.
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by FelixTheCat »

Every time I think about diversifying my brokerage firms I usually end up back at Vanguard. They have all of the low-cost index funds.

Vanguard may be going through some growing pains. I believe it's because Vanguard has excellent products. Also, Buffett endorsed them and a lot of people are putting their money where he advises.
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by Chip »

I've dealt with distributing TOD accounts from Fidelity and Vanguard in 2015. The paperwork isn't difficult. Medallion guarantees were required by both since each TOD beneficiary wanted the inheritance to go into a joint account. It went through very quickly at Fidelity. Vanguard found a problem with the medallion guarantee after having the paperwork in their hands for 2.5 weeks. I had to re-send it.

The TOD terms were a 50/50 split between two beneficiaries. One beneficiary submitted paperwork two weeks before the other. Because of that time lag, neither Vanguard nor Fidelity handled that split accurately due to credits and debits that hit the accounts after the first beneficiary received their "half". But I'm not sure they could have done it perfectly, though I think it could have been better. So I had to prepare a spreadsheet to keep track of things that should have been split 50/50 but weren't. As well as a few other things that had to be split differently. Ultimately one beneficiary sent money to the other to even things up after all the dust settled.
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by retiredjg »

I think you may be worrying about a problem that may not even come into being.

Yes, it is true that Vanguard recently went through a period of poor customer service, but it seems much of that has died off lately. Maybe they are catching up. It just seems the complains (which were definitely bad for a bit) have lessened to almost nothing lately. Or perhaps, I've missed it.

You say you have had no problems during your "long time" as a customer. Yet you are expecting problems for events that have not happened yet. Seems to me it would be better to wait until you have a problem. Then solve it.
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by tc101 »

A recent example of customer service at Vanguard - I sent a message on Wednesday asking a pretty simple question. No response so far. Not even a response saying they got the message.
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by darkhorse346 »

tc101 wrote:A recent example of customer service at Vanguard - I sent a message on Wednesday asking a pretty simple question. No response so far. Not even a response saying they got the message.
I've not had any problems with Vanguard for the past 14-15 years, but then again, it's basically been adding money to IRAs, rolling over a 401k, etc....plain vanilla stuff.

I want to know who handles the more complicated scenarios better, Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity? Sounds like a number of people have indicated that generally speaking, Vanguard has done just fine. I'm not looking to make any moves now. I'm just doing preliminary research on options, should a change be warranted in the future,

(I have noticed the number of complaints about VG service seem to have decreased, which is good.)
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by dodecahedron »

radiowave wrote:I'm not sure what you mean by "hassle factor"? All three brokerages are well regarded here on the forum. If you have Vanguard and are overall satisfied with the funds and services, why change? If you are moving funds from VG to Fidelity or Schwab from a taxable account, you may not be able to keep them or at the least, would be costly and more hassle to work with say VG VTSAX Total Stock fund within Fidelity or Schwab.
I had a bunch of different Vanguard Admiral mutual funds and a couple of Vanguard ETFs in a taxable account at Vanguard. I managed to move them all over to Schwab in-kind very easily and smoothly. I haven't actually done anything with those funds at Schwab except collect dividends and donate some of the shares in-kind to my Schwab DAF, but all has gone well. I don't plan to buy any more (there are perfect good equivalent substitute Schwab funds should I decide to do that.)
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by radiowave »

I did something similar but moved a small amount of Fidelity funds (FSTVX) to Merrill Edge, now I find out that it will cost me $20/trade to sell and can't buy any more within ME.
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by jhfenton »

tc101 wrote:A recent example of customer service at Vanguard - I sent a message on Wednesday asking a pretty simple question. No response so far. Not even a response saying they got the message.
I've been very happy with customer service at Vanguard…except for their response to messages. When we transferred our accounts over in 2015, I tried a couple of times to send messages. Each time I received late (after a week) boilerplate responses to questions that were not the question I asked.

I concluded that messages were useless, and I pretend that option simply doesn't exist.

But my phone calls are always answered quickly (or I opt for a call back in an estimated amount of time, never more than 10-15 minutes). And once I get someone on the phone, I always get good service.
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by darkhorse346 »

fourwheelcycle wrote:About eight years ago I was POA and then executor for my aunt. All of her savings was in bank CDs and Treasury bills. As the CDs and T bills matured I consolidated all of her money at Vanguard and then distributed her remaining funds to her heirs after her death. Vanguard was very helpful and everything went smoothly.

Currently I am POA for my father and I will be his executor when he dies. He has been living off his pension, SS and IRA. I have worked with him to consolidate his IRA and his taxable assets at Vanguard. Vanguard has helped me set up his RMDs with no problems and the IRA is now almost down to zero.

In order to avoid traveling to his home state for probate I have set up all of his brokerage assets as TOD equally to his five children. I have connected with Vanguard's Transition team (how's that for a euphemism). They told me they will transfer each of his assets to his named TOD children as stepped-up equity and bond holdings, or sell each child's due holdings and deposit cash in their settlement funds, as they wish, after his death. I feel reassured that everything will go smoothly.

Some of my siblings have current Vanguard accounts and others will have to open accounts in order to receive their due holdings or the cash proceeds. Vanguard has said my siblings can open new accounts, receive their holdings or cash, and then transfer out the holdings or cash and close the accounts if that is what they want to do.
Thank you for sharing this.

Did you know what you and your dad wanted to do before contacting Vanguard or did they guide you all on this?
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by TimeRunner »

+1 on FedGuy's response. I'd use the local Schwab office.

I'm POA for Mom on three Trust accounts and an IRA at Schwab. The local office has been helpful to notarize paperwork, coordinate with back-end operations center office, etc. Website is straightforward. I would prefer VG funds, but changing trust investments triggers cap gains, so on these accounts holding muni funds and Dow 30-type stocks, it's mostly let-it-ride.

Edit: I have a TIRA and RIRA at Fidelity, moved from Vanguard last Fall prior to moving money to/fro the US TSP. I still have an investment brokerage account at VG. So I have experience at all three, and am advising that, for your situation, pick your local Schwab office.
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by dbr »

If you want a really good reason to avoid any one of those three, I don't think you are going to find it.
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by lazyday »

darkhorse346 wrote:I want to know who handles the more complicated scenarios better, Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?
I've skimmed threads like this one for over 10 years, here's the impression I have:

Excellent service all around: Fidelity and Schwab. I can't tell which one is better, both have a lot of happy customers. I've seen people specifically say that they are good for complicated tasks.

Usually good: Vanguard. I've seen occasional complaints all along, not just with the recent growth spurt. A couple times there's been a thread on the forum about something going wrong, with a reply saying that you shouldn't have been doing something that complicated at Vanguard. In threads like the one we're in now, there's generally a lower % of people who seem very happy compared to Fidelity and Schwab.

Two other brokers that some people might consider are Merrill Edge which has free trades with a large enough balance, and Interactive Brokers which allows order routing and other features for sophisticated traders. But I doubt those two are right for you; you seem to have the right decision set if you've been happy with Vanguard so far.
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by bengal22 »

I like both Fidelity and Vanguard(split is 66/34 Fidelity). Both have very similar index funds. I do like the Fidelity CC for the 2% cash back. I for one like the idea of not having all of my funds at one company(unfounded concern or not).
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by aristotelian »

I recently consolidated inherited assets given to my kids that I manage as court appointed custodian. I chose Vanguard and have had zero major problems. I do agree with post above that response to emails takes multiple days, but that is easily avoided by making a phone call. Schwab's customer service is also excellent. Can't go wrong with any of the three.
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by fourwheelcycle »

darkhorse346 wrote: Did you know what you and your dad wanted to do before contacting Vanguard or did they guide you all on this?
My father and I knew what we wanted, but I went over everything with my Vanguard rep, and with their Transition office rep, to be sure I could make transactions on the account I was setting up for my father, that I understood Vanguard's TOD procedures, and that my siblings could easily open and then close Vanguard accounts to receive their inheritances.

I know some people have had trouble with long wait times for phone calls or asset transfers due to all the funds that have been moving to Vanguard in recent years, but my experience with their services has been very good. I have moved my father's holdings from another brokerage and from Computershare, my wife and I (and our adult children who have changed jobs) have rolled over retirement accounts from our employers' custodians to IRAs at Vanguard, and we have recently consolidated our individual trust holdings to a JRT. Our main Vanguard rep and Vanguard's various specialty service offices have helped us with each of these moves and everything has gone smoothly.
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by darkhorse346 »

fourwheelcycle wrote:
darkhorse346 wrote: Did you know what you and your dad wanted to do before contacting Vanguard or did they guide you all on this?
My father and I knew what we wanted, but I went over everything with my Vanguard rep, and with their Transition office rep, to be sure I could make transactions on the account I was setting up for my father, that I understood Vanguard's TOD procedures, and that my siblings could easily open and then close Vanguard accounts to receive their inheritances.

I know some people have had trouble with long wait times for phone calls or asset transfers due to all the funds that have been moving to Vanguard in recent years, but my experience with their services has been very good. I have moved my father's holdings from another brokerage and from Computershare, my wife and I (and our adult children who have changed jobs) have rolled over retirement accounts from our employers' custodians to IRAs at Vanguard, and we have recently consolidated our individual trust holdings to a JRT. Our main Vanguard rep and Vanguard's various specialty service offices have helped us with each of these moves and everything has gone smoothly.
Thank you. :beer
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by Big Dog »

I'd like to get some real world experiences from people who had to deal with inheritances, MRDs, etc. at Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity.
My step-mom passed away last year and it was easy to transfer her assets from several brokers, including Schwab, to Vanguard. Just called Vanguard up and they initiated the transfer on their end. All stepped-up basis was correct. My sister did not have a Vanguard account at the time, but she was one of the ToD/PoD beneficiaries, so the 'transition team member" walked her thru the app process and sent her something to sign. All was ready by the time the death cert was available, ~6 weeks after death.

Also have an inherited IRA, and Vanguard calcs the RMD's.

btw: I am one who eschews retail when I can, as I prefer rock-bottom admin fees vs. having a walk-in office nearby.

P.S. any connection to the DarkHorse battalion, OP?
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by darkhorse346 »

Big Dog wrote:
I'd like to get some real world experiences from people who had to deal with inheritances, MRDs, etc. at Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity.
My step-mom passed away last year and it was easy to transfer her assets from several brokers, including Schwab, to Vanguard. Just called Vanguard up and they initiated the transfer on their end. All stepped-up basis was correct. My sister did not have a Vanguard account at the time, but she was one of the ToD/PoD beneficiaries, so the 'transition team member" walked her thru the app process and sent her something to sign. All was ready by the time the death cert was available, ~6 weeks after death.

Also have an inherited IRA, and Vanguard calcs the RMD's.

btw: I am one who eschews retail when I can, as I prefer rock-bottom admin fees vs. having a walk-in office nearby.

P.S. any connection to the DarkHorse battalion, OP?
Big Dog, thank you for your post - very informative. No connection to DarkHorse Battalion.
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by nm451 »

I am currently with Schwab and have used Vanguard and Fidelity in the past. I generally handle all investments on my own and my fiancee also has no interest in handling them.

I am biased toward Schwab they have the Intelligent Advisory service. There is a .28 fee that is capped with the cash drag of the Intelligent Portfolio. If something happens to me then she has instructions to transfer the assets into it and use their online advisory services. I know that Vanguard and Fidelity have something similar but don't know much about them.

My experiences with all three have generally been ok but Schwab was clearly the best. I closed the Vanguard and Fidelity accounts about 3-5 years ago so my experiences are probably out of date.
From what other other comments it seems most of the issues I had with Vanguard and Fidelity have been resolved. But I will just leave my two cents.

Fidelity - Only had a work 401K. All closed about 3 years ago.
  • I could not deal at all with the local branch. I had to go through one of their other offices that only handled 401Ks. Everything was either via phone or email. This made it hard for me because the time difference was 5-6 hours?
    The response time was slow. Phone calls were at least a 10-15 minute wait and then get transferred around or put on hold longer. Emails were responded to eventually from different people each time and seemed like canned responses.
    The website was very limited. I assume because it was only the 401K there and I only could see the account balance and vested amount. Every change had to be done via mail.
    Rolling over the 401K to Schwab was painless but it did take 3-4 weeks to clear. I am not sure who the cause of the delay.
Vanguard - Had a IRA, Inherited IRA(From another broker), and a small investment account. All closed about 5 years ago.
  • There were no local branches for me. I joined due to recommendation from a friend.
    As others have said there was a long wait time on the phone, about 10-15 minutes. Also had issues with the time difference and no options to talk to another closer office. Email was hit or miss. Sometimes I would get a quick response other times it would take like a week. All email responses seem to come from a team looked canned.
    Taking the RMD was kind of a pain. They did all the calculations and withdrawals for me but I did have to make two calls and a couple of emails to get it done. At the time you could not do it yourself online.
    The website was not very good at the time it was not very user friendly with limited functionality. It looked very outdated and 00's (in 2011/2012). Also no chat function.
    Transferring the Inherited IRA into Vanguard was a pain but that was due to the nightmare outside adviser. The Vanguard side was easy enough, just some paperwork.
    Transferring things out to Schwab was easy. I asked if they had any sort of retention bonus but there were none.
Schwab - IRA, Roth IRA, Inherited IRA (From another broker), Investment Account, Checking Account.
  • They have a local branch and I have gotten free services from them (Notary/Medallion/Answering Questions about paperwork). I would have to pay for advising services.
    Contacting them is easy by phone/chat/email and are open 24/7. When contacting them it would generally be a team but if it was a specific issue then I would get a contact person.
    Transferring Inherited IRA was a nightmare due to the outside adviser. Transferring cash/rollovers are easy maybe 3-5 days to complete once the paperwork was filed.
    Taking the RMD is easy and took about 10 minutes via chat online. I have re characterized an IRA contribution and other things all via chat.
    The biggest factor for me is that I have multiple options to contact them 24/7 and get a live person who can resolve my issues. Also they take into account the time difference when getting back to me. No more calls at 4 am.
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darkhorse346
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by darkhorse346 »

8-)
nm451 wrote:I am currently with Schwab and have used Vanguard and Fidelity in the past. I generally handle all investments on my own and my fiancee also has no interest in handling them.

I am biased toward Schwab they have the Intelligent Advisory service. There is a .28 fee that is capped with the cash drag of the Intelligent Portfolio. If something happens to me then she has instructions to transfer the assets into it and use their online advisory services. I know that Vanguard and Fidelity have something similar but don't know much about them.

My experiences with all three have generally been ok but Schwab was clearly the best. I closed the Vanguard and Fidelity accounts about 3-5 years ago so my experiences are probably out of date.
From what other other comments it seems most of the issues I had with Vanguard and Fidelity have been resolved. But I will just leave my two cents.

Fidelity - Only had a work 401K. All closed about 3 years ago.
  • I could not deal at all with the local branch. I had to go through one of their other offices that only handled 401Ks. Everything was either via phone or email. This made it hard for me because the time difference was 5-6 hours?
    The response time was slow. Phone calls were at least a 10-15 minute wait and then get transferred around or put on hold longer. Emails were responded to eventually from different people each time and seemed like canned responses.
    The website was very limited. I assume because it was only the 401K there and I only could see the account balance and vested amount. Every change had to be done via mail.
    Rolling over the 401K to Schwab was painless but it did take 3-4 weeks to clear. I am not sure who the cause of the delay.
Vanguard - Had a IRA, Inherited IRA(From another broker), and a small investment account. All closed about 5 years ago.
  • There were no local branches for me. I joined due to recommendation from a friend.
    As others have said there was a long wait time on the phone, about 10-15 minutes. Also had issues with the time difference and no options to talk to another closer office. Email was hit or miss. Sometimes I would get a quick response other times it would take like a week. All email responses seem to come from a team looked canned.
    Taking the RMD was kind of a pain. They did all the calculations and withdrawals for me but I did have to make two calls and a couple of emails to get it done. At the time you could not do it yourself online.
    The website was not very good at the time it was not very user friendly with limited functionality. It looked very outdated and 00's (in 2011/2012). Also no chat function.
    Transferring the Inherited IRA into Vanguard was a pain but that was due to the nightmare outside adviser. The Vanguard side was easy enough, just some paperwork.
    Transferring things out to Schwab was easy. I asked if they had any sort of retention bonus but there were none.
Schwab - IRA, Roth IRA, Inherited IRA (From another broker), Investment Account, Checking Account.
  • They have a local branch and I have gotten free services from them (Notary/Medallion/Answering Questions about paperwork). I would have to pay for advising services.
    Contacting them is easy by phone/chat/email and are open 24/7. When contacting them it would generally be a team but if it was a specific issue then I would get a contact person.
    Transferring Inherited IRA was a nightmare due to the outside adviser. Transferring cash/rollovers are easy maybe 3-5 days to complete once the paperwork was filed.
    Taking the RMD is easy and took about 10 minutes via chat online. I have re characterized an IRA contribution and other things all via chat.
    The biggest factor for me is that I have multiple options to contact them 24/7 and get a live person who can resolve my issues. Also they take into account the time difference when getting back to me. No more calls at 4 am.
NM451, thank you for level of detail and time you put into telling your story. Good information!
J295
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by J295 »

Have accounts at VG and Fido.
Fido for 35 years, including our "checking/bill paying account"

Fido is, in our experience, very easy to use. Easy to reach by phone 24/7 (understand from prior post that's not true for employer 401k, which seems reasonable that they would not be 24/7, and that's our experience on the solo 401k and the like where we had technical ERISA issues). The 24/7 is important to us b/c we often decide to do something when it is outside normal business hours.
Have found website easy to navigate.
When we have needed special quick action we were typically able to get it accomplished without much hassle.
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darkhorse346
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by darkhorse346 »

J295 wrote:Have accounts at VG and Fido.
Fido for 35 years, including our "checking/bill paying account"

Fido is, in our experience, very easy to use. Easy to reach by phone 24/7 (understand from prior post that's not true for employer 401k, which seems reasonable that they would not be 24/7, and that's our experience on the solo 401k and the like where we had technical ERISA issues). The 24/7 is important to us b/c we often decide to do something when it is outside normal business hours.
Have found website easy to navigate.
When we have needed special quick action we were typically able to get it accomplished without much hassle.
J295, if you had to chose either Vanguard or Fidelity, which would you prefer?

Thank you.
bondsr4me
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Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:08 am

Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by bondsr4me »

They are both good, as is Schwab too.

Of these 3, IMHO Fidelity has the best website for individual bonds. I don't care for Schwab's bond page.

Vanguard's bond page is OK, just not as good as Fido.
I did have an occasion to speak with a VG bond desk guy who was very pleasant and helpful.

I don't think you can go wrong with any of these three.

Good Luck to you.

Don
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darkhorse346
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by darkhorse346 »

bondsr4me wrote:They are both good, as is Schwab too.

Of these 3, IMHO Fidelity has the best website for individual bonds. I don't care for Schwab's bond page.

Vanguard's bond page is OK, just not as good as Fido.
I did have an occasion to speak with a VG bond desk guy who was very pleasant and helpful.

I don't think you can go wrong with any of these three.

Good Luck to you.

Don
Thank you, Don.
Afull
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:23 pm

Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by Afull »

darkhorse346 wrote:...To the greatest extent possible, we want to make sure we minimize the "hassle factor" while still having access to great, low cost mutual funds. Hassle factor meaning paying unnecessary taxes due to paperwork errors, long waits on phone calls, and any other frustrating, time consuming, costly, and bureaucratic experience for me AND my spouse.

I'm evaluating whether to stay with Vanguard or move to Schwab or Fidelity given our situation. I'm interested in getting the opinions of people who have gone through similar circumstances already.

Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity, all provide good, low cost funds. The deciding factor is which one will minimize hassle factor risk? Thank you.
I've had experience with Fidelity and Vanguard, but none with Schwab. We're getting ready to start the process regarding inheitances at Fidelity and in the preliminary discussions it appears it's going to be pretty straight forword.

I think these two and probably three are all good companies. I think any average investor would figure out how to work with anyone of the three brokers. However when it comes to recommending a broker for disinterested investors that need a lot of hand holding you need to go with someone that at least has the potential to provide that hand holding. So thinking of your wife, as with mine, you need to consider who would provide the best handholding when you can't hold her hand. Possibly time for a change?
drzzzzz
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Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:56 pm

Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by drzzzzz »

We are a Vanguard flagship customer and while I like vanguard and we have the bulk of our assets there, I find Fidelity is much more responsive - what takes 2 days at Fidelity can be two weeks or more at vanguard. Vanguard seems to have fewer experts available to answer a question - it is more we will look into that and get back to you whereas you can almost always get a response on the phone from Fidelity. I like that I can stop in a Fidelity office, they keep me updated about potential issues when they happen rather than waiting a month to find out from Vanguard. I think customer service is much better at Fidelity, however, Vanguard has more mutual funds and a history of lower expenses.
sambb
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by sambb »

would definitely avoid vanguard and choose fidelity or schwab.
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darkhorse346
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by darkhorse346 »

sambb wrote:would definitely avoid vanguard and choose fidelity or schwab.
Are you speaking from experience, sambb?
snugharbor
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by snugharbor »

I had a problem with Vanguard while settling my father's estate. I was the executor. Vanguard received my paperwork from the state of CT appointing me as the executor. In the state of CT your appointment s for a year. It says just that on the notarized form.

Dad's estate consisted of eight insurance policies at five different insurance companies as well as a variety of investments at five different financial institutions. Fidelity was the best of the five and were also helpful in several different ways with my settling of the estate. Dreyfus performed well. GE Finance was good. US Bank in Stamford, CT was very helpful. US Trust was a little sluggish but overall did a good job. Vanguard was the only one that made a mistake. It was not so much that they made a mistake as that can happen. It was the difficult time I had getting them to admit they had made a mistake and getting them to remedy the mistake. This all happened between June, 2015 and February of 2016. Part of the problem can be ascribed to me as it took me a while to realize that they had failed to move all of Dad's holdings into the executor account. Dad had both mutual funds and stocks in his account. Around $10,000 in stocks had been left behind in his brokerage account. Most of the stocks had been moved correctly. Dad had a couple of hundred thousand at Vanguard. I did have a brief thought that maybe these remaining stocks had to do with dividend reinvestment that was done after the other shares were transferred or something like that.

I had been spoiled by the accuracy of the other institutions involved in the estate so I remained calm and gave Vanguard a call expecting them to settle the matter quickly. I had to talk with several people with return calls promised that never came. I began to call requesting to be put through to the dept that handles estates. I also e mailed for assistance. Finally I was able to have an estate dept person look at the transfers in the computer. She told me that these shares just somehow "popped back into Dad's brokerage account" the day they did the transfer into the executor account. I needed those shares to be transferred and also have the value of the shares given the step up in basis to the day of death.

It took a couple of weeks for them to fix the situation. At one point a nice woman told me that there were six people in problem resolution discussing the situation. Half of them thought that I should be made to provide them with new paperwork stating that I was still the executor before they would correct the mistake the other half thought they should just fix the problem right away. I was in FL at the time. I called Dad's lawyer. His office is in Stamford, CT. He told me to tell them that if they looked at the appointment form in their possession they would see that my appointment was for a year from the date of issue. He also told me to have Vanguard call him if need be and also gave me the number of the probate office if they wanted to call there. I was polite throughout but did tell them that they had cost my family money. The shares that were left behind had lost value while they were sitting there. Dad's other holdings had been liquidated and distributed to the heirs in the fall of 2015. No one ever really said they were sorry about the error.

I also detected errors in the tax information Vanguard had sent out for the estate. They had failed to do the proper step up in basis for part of his holdings. They had to issue new tax forms before we could file the returns. About six months later I received a letter in the mail from someone at Vanguard saying that they could see that my problem had been rectified and extending a weak apology. I considered filing a complaint with the SEC but in the end was just happy to get it fixed and be done with it.

Highest marks go to Fidelity. They went out of their way to be helpful and to explain how it would all work. All of the heirs have accounts at Fidelity so I gathered the funds there and Fidelity distributed the money into our individual accounts. Fidelity had also been very helpful with my mother passed. Dad misunderstood a little about what was required to divide Mom's IRA into inherited IRAs for the four children. I had to call Fidelity early on New Years eve to ask for some information as Dad had not yet withdrawn her RMD for the year of her death. When he had remembered to do the withdrawal it was too late as Fidelity had already been informed of her death and her IRA now belonged to her children. We could have done the withdrawal but Dad told us too late about the issue and we were concerned that a penalty would have to be paid. The Fidelity estate man told us that he was not allowed to give tax advice but that the inherited IRAs would be funded in a couple of days and that we could file a certain form with the IRS explaining the situation. If we did so promptly withdrawing the correct amount as soon as we could it would probably be OK. Mom died in 2012 and so far the IRS has not complained. In no way was I expecting Fidelity to be able to help us on New Years Eve so I/we were very pleasantly surprised and grateful.

I have just joined here and appreciated very much all that I am learning.
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darkhorse346
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by darkhorse346 »

snugharbor wrote:I had a problem with Vanguard while settling my father's estate. I was the executor. Vanguard received my paperwork from the state of CT appointing me as the executor. In the state of CT your appointment s for a year. It says just that on the notarized form.

Dad's estate consisted of eight insurance policies at five different insurance companies as well as a variety of investments at five different financial institutions. Fidelity was the best of the five and were also helpful in several different ways with my settling of the estate. Dreyfus performed well. GE Finance was good. US Bank in Stamford, CT was very helpful. US Trust was a little sluggish but overall did a good job. Vanguard was the only one that made a mistake. It was not so much that they made a mistake as that can happen. It was the difficult time I had getting them to admit they had made a mistake and getting them to remedy the mistake. This all happened between June, 2015 and February of 2016. Part of the problem can be ascribed to me as it took me a while to realize that they had failed to move all of Dad's holdings into the executor account. Dad had both mutual funds and stocks in his account. Around $10,000 in stocks had been left behind in his brokerage account. Most of the stocks had been moved correctly. Dad had a couple of hundred thousand at Vanguard. I did have a brief thought that maybe these remaining stocks had to do with dividend reinvestment that was done after the other shares were transferred or something like that.

I had been spoiled by the accuracy of the other institutions involved in the estate so I remained calm and gave Vanguard a call expecting them to settle the matter quickly. I had to talk with several people with return calls promised that never came. I began to call requesting to be put through to the dept that handles estates. I also e mailed for assistance. Finally I was able to have an estate dept person look at the transfers in the computer. She told me that these shares just somehow "popped back into Dad's brokerage account" the day they did the transfer into the executor account. I needed those shares to be transferred and also have the value of the shares given the step up in basis to the day of death.

It took a couple of weeks for them to fix the situation. At one point a nice woman told me that there were six people in problem resolution discussing the situation. Half of them thought that I should be made to provide them with new paperwork stating that I was still the executor before they would correct the mistake the other half thought they should just fix the problem right away. I was in FL at the time. I called Dad's lawyer. His office is in Stamford, CT. He told me to tell them that if they looked at the appointment form in their possession they would see that my appointment was for a year from the date of issue. He also told me to have Vanguard call him if need be and also gave me the number of the probate office if they wanted to call there. I was polite throughout but did tell them that they had cost my family money. The shares that were left behind had lost value while they were sitting there. Dad's other holdings had been liquidated and distributed to the heirs in the fall of 2015. No one ever really said they were sorry about the error.

I also detected errors in the tax information Vanguard had sent out for the estate. They had failed to do the proper step up in basis for part of his holdings. They had to issue new tax forms before we could file the returns. About six months later I received a letter in the mail from someone at Vanguard saying that they could see that my problem had been rectified and extending a weak apology. I considered filing a complaint with the SEC but in the end was just happy to get it fixed and be done with it.

Highest marks go to Fidelity. They went out of their way to be helpful and to explain how it would all work. All of the heirs have accounts at Fidelity so I gathered the funds there and Fidelity distributed the money into our individual accounts. Fidelity had also been very helpful with my mother passed. Dad misunderstood a little about what was required to divide Mom's IRA into inherited IRAs for the four children. I had to call Fidelity early on New Years eve to ask for some information as Dad had not yet withdrawn her RMD for the year of her death. When he had remembered to do the withdrawal it was too late as Fidelity had already been informed of her death and her IRA now belonged to her children. We could have done the withdrawal but Dad told us too late about the issue and we were concerned that a penalty would have to be paid. The Fidelity estate man told us that he was not allowed to give tax advice but that the inherited IRAs would be funded in a couple of days and that we could file a certain form with the IRS explaining the situation. If we did so promptly withdrawing the correct amount as soon as we could it would probably be OK. Mom died in 2012 and so far the IRS has not complained. In no way was I expecting Fidelity to be able to help us on New Years Eve so I/we were very pleasantly surprised and grateful.

I have just joined here and appreciated very much all that I am learning.
snugharbor,

Welcome to the Forum and thank you for sharing your story. I'm sorry you had to go through all of this.
sport
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by sport »

darkhorse346 wrote: Spouse has zero interest in the investing process, but understands the need to invest to build wealth for retirement, college, etc.
If there ever comes a time when your spouse must take over managing the accounts, Vanguard has a big advantage over the others. Vanguard has no expensive products and no commissioned salespeople. If you go elsewhere, there is no telling what kind of expensive products they might succeed in selling to your spouse, such as annuities, load funds, whole life insurance, funds with high expense ratios, etc. etc. Most Bogleheads know how to deal with this problem. However, a novice investor could easily be taken advantage of.
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topper1296
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by topper1296 »

I have accounts with all 3 and Schwab has some of the best customer services I've ever experienced with any company.

On a side note, I'm at the stage of my life now where I'm willing to pay more (within reason) for better customer service.
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tuningfork
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by tuningfork »

I have accounts at Vanguard and Fidelity with approx. half my invested assets at each, invested in comparable low cost index mutual funds. I'm nearly finished the process of consolidating all my other accounts to those two.

My Vanguard experience began when I inherited an IRA at Vanguard where my mom already had an account. The executor (my sibling who also inherited a share of it) complained that it was difficult to reach the specialist at Vanguard who was assigned to the account. They played phone tag for weeks. Once the process was complete I've had no troubles. The inherited IRA account was created correctly and Vanguard calculates my RMD every year and distributes it to my savings account.

I rolled over a pension lump sum to an IRA at Vanguard. Other than the amount of time it took, it was a smooth process. I don't recall the details but it seemed like the money was in limbo between the pension custodian and Vanguard for about 3 weeks. I waited patiently and eventually the money appeared in the Vanguard account correctly.

I had a 401(k) at Fidelity which I rolled over to a Fidelity IRA. Very quick - it happened in less than a day, though I did have to spend about an hour on the phone as the 401(k) specialist led me through the process and then introduced me to a local account manager who would be assigned to my account.

I transferred an IRA from another firm to Fidelity. I initiated the process online and it was completed in less than a week without ever having to interact with a human. Very impressive.

My only complaint with Fidelity was with the initial adviser assigned to my account. Even though I told him I was self-managing the account I would occasionally get a phone call about market conditions that I should act upon. I let all those calls go to voice mail and never replied. Recently he left the company and my new adviser has never contacted me other than the initial introductory call.

If I had to choose one I would lean toward Fidelity. Rollovers and transfers happen more quickly. I have an assigned account manager who I can meet in person if I wish at a nearby Fidelity office. I prefer Fidelity's web site over Vanguard's. Differences between the index funds at Fidelity and Vanguard are negligible at the present time.
heybro
Posts: 164
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Re: Avoiding the Hassle Factor - Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity?

Post by heybro »

This is a debate, that pops up many times on here, where there won't be a consensus.

It doesn't matter which you choose.

Most people will recommend Vanguard but if you go with either of the others, you are still doing great.

My advice would be, if you can, to check them out for yourself. Try calling and just talking to someone. Do it a few times. How long did you wait? Was the person nice? Did they answer your question. Ask them to mail you something. How long did you wait to get it. Did they spell your name right? Did it feel OK? hehe. Serious. When it comes to splitting hairs here, you have to go with what seems right.

Do not stress too much on getting the 'right' place. They are very comparable to each other. And, if you are used to what you are used to, maybe you'd rather not change.
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