Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

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afan
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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by afan » Thu May 11, 2017 1:57 pm

Let me clarify my "no, you cannot afford it" comment.

I should have said "you cannot afford to buy a luxury car, save enough for retirement and put away enough to pay for your kids' educations".

If you make "buy a luxury car" the critical priority, and rate retirement and kids' education as far less important, then you would be able to make the payments on the car. In that sense you can afford it.

For us, paying for our kids' education rated right after providing a safe and wholesome life for them at home. Luxury cars, fancy vacations, clothes, jewelry or entertainment were so low on the priority list that they could never compete. We delayed having a second child until we were confident both that we had a good start on savings for the first and that we had the cash flow to put together a fully funded college fund for the second as well. I took public transportation to work for years because it was cheaper than driving would have been.

As it turned out, we paid for education out of current cash flow and we have now fully funded our retirement. Note that this includes savings outside of tax favored plans. Just because there is a cap on tax favored contributions that does not mean that is all you need to save.

In that sense, I could afford a "luxury" car. But as the nail goes in just as deep with a regular hammer, when I get somewhere I am the same place I would have been if I were driving a Bentley (is that how you spell it?) If I cared more about driving around in a Rolls than I did about educating my kids, then I could have bought one.

The OP has too little in retirement savings for age, 4 kids to educate and a taste for expensive cars.

My advice "when your kids have graduated debt free and your retirement is fully funded, then see how much spare money you have lying around. At that point, buy whatever fancy car you can pay for in cash. Until then, save your money, you will need it."

We were prepared to fund graduate/professional school as well. Since I cared a lot about my kids and not at all about fancy cars, my approach reflected my priorities. YMMV
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Ozonewanderer
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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by Ozonewanderer » Thu May 11, 2017 9:21 pm

Clearly from your personal finances it is not a questions of whether you can afford the car. My guess is that you are asking because you are afraid you will feel guilt and the question will be whether this guilt will outweigh the pleasure.

I am a gearhead too, and I bought my first "luxury" car around age 50. I was very apprehensive when I plunked down the money (as I am with all major purchases), but I never regretted it. I enjoyed the car and took good care of it. In fact I did buy a BMW 3 along the way, and I really loved that car. My mistake was leasing it. I should have purchased it outright because I took such good care of it, I enjoyed driving it and buying another car really wasn't necessary. I will never lease again. I will just "buy and hold." :D If you think of holding on to a car for 10 years then the additional purchase cost of a luxury car is not that bad.

Now once you have upgraded to a luxury car you can't really go back so keep that in mind. In other words when you sell your BMW you will not likely decide to buy a mid-priced Ford/Chevy/Kia/hyundai etc. So It's a one way trip up.

Where you will hate yourself is when you pay for maintenance and repairs. The price will be about 2-3x what you are used to paying for a mid-priced car, and it will make you mad every time. The most important thing to consider when purchasing a more expensive car (or home) is that the upkeep costs will rise significantly and that can hurt your savings rate more than the one time purchase cost.

But having said all this I was somehow able to overcome the ongoing anguish and buy not only luxury cars but also 5 motorcycles, all new. The most I made was half your current income. Now I still have 3 bikes and a MB E350 coupe and I love them all. Money may not buy happiness but speed does!

Grasshopper911
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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by Grasshopper911 » Fri May 12, 2017 4:16 am

I expect you will get much different feedback from a BMW forum than here....

We have leased a number of BMW's over the years (including several X6's). If you love cars, you will truly enjoy it and will not look back at the decision negatively.

I'm not sure I would buy a BMW outright, as comments about maintenance are very true. The engines are high performance (including both the 6 and 8 cylinder models) and we had sporadic issues over the years (all under warranty... But would have been very expensive otherwise).

BMW has a great residual, so you get a lot more bang for your buck leasing them than comparable other brands.

Good luck in your decision... And congratulations on having a great first world problem!
:sharebeer
Last edited by Grasshopper911 on Fri May 12, 2017 5:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

lazydavid
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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by lazydavid » Fri May 12, 2017 4:51 am

Grasshopper911 wrote: I'm not sure I would buy a BMW outright, as comments about maintenance are very true. The engines are high performance (including both the V6 and V8's)
Sorry to nitpick, but there are no V6 engines in the BMW lineup, and I don't believe there ever have been.

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Cernel
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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by Cernel » Fri May 12, 2017 5:09 am

I will admit upfront that I did not read this entire thread since it is now 4+ pages long, so I don't know if this perspective has already been stated.

I found myself in a similar situation as you last summer. Although I am about 20 years older than you, my wife and I have purchased mid-sized cars and Mini Vans for the past 40 years and have kept them for 12-15 years. From a materialistic perspective, we, like you, still have some of our original furniture and we live in the same house since we got married. We raised 3 kids and got them through college without any student loans. So there are some similarities with your situation. The one big difference is income. You and your wife make well above what we did during our earning years (like 3x more).

So, as many have said, from a financial standpoint you are OK with this purchase. In my situation, we, too, were able to afford a luxury car. What I was looking at was a Certified 2015 Lexus ES 350. I really wasn't looking to buy, but I stopped in at the Lexus Dealer and test drove this vehicle. Very comfortable and with the reputation Lexus has for reliability, I convinced myself that it was a good purchase. Actually, I did not pay cash, like I have always done with new cars, but I leased it. Yes, the car is very comfortable and has more options on it than I will probably use. But finally, I am getting to that different perspective. Now having the car for almost a year, I find myself not being comfortable with the car since it is more car and luxury than I have ever had. For whatever reason, it just doesn't seem to be me, to fit with my life style. Sure, I enjoy the ride, especially when I travel the 500 miles to visit my daughter, but I still feel uncomfortable in it. So when the lease is up, I am currently thinking I will be back in that mid-sized car.

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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by jlcnuke » Fri May 12, 2017 5:30 am

lazydavid wrote:
Grasshopper911 wrote: I'm not sure I would buy a BMW outright, as comments about maintenance are very true. The engines are high performance (including both the V6 and V8's)
Sorry to nitpick, but there are no V6 engines in the BMW lineup, and I don't believe there ever have been.
However, the inline 6 that was in mine was still a pretty "high performance" engine.

Grasshopper911
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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by Grasshopper911 » Fri May 12, 2017 5:34 am

lazydavid wrote:
Grasshopper911 wrote: I'm not sure I would buy a BMW outright, as comments about maintenance are very true. The engines are high performance (including both the V6 and V8's)
Sorry to nitpick, but there are no V6 engines in the BMW lineup, and I don't believe there ever have been.
Inline sixes. :oops:

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jharkin
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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by jharkin » Fri May 12, 2017 6:50 am

lazydavid wrote:
Grasshopper911 wrote: I'm not sure I would buy a BMW outright, as comments about maintenance are very true. The engines are high performance (including both the V6 and V8's)
Sorry to nitpick, but there are no V6 engines in the BMW lineup, and I don't believe there ever have been.

Hahaha .... This is bogleheads. Most members here see a car as a box with wheels that has some magic that makes it go. Ive seen references to V4's more than once (and it was NOT in reference to Honda sport bikes).

The default answer to every car question on this forum is if its not 20 years old, rusted out and you paid cash than its too much. Oh and it better be a subcompact even if you have 20 people to haul. [insert clowns in a vw bus meme]

I take car talk here with a large pile of salt. :sharebeer

lazydavid
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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by lazydavid » Fri May 12, 2017 8:05 am

jlcnuke wrote:
lazydavid wrote:
Grasshopper911 wrote: I'm not sure I would buy a BMW outright, as comments about maintenance are very true. The engines are high performance (including both the V6 and V8's)
Sorry to nitpick, but there are no V6 engines in the BMW lineup, and I don't believe there ever have been.
However, the inline 6 that was in mine was still a pretty "high performance" engine.
Mine as well, though I do my best to avoid the very un-BH activity of liquefying tires that cost almost $300 each, at least any more often than absolutely necessary. :twisted:

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dodecahedron
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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by dodecahedron » Fri May 12, 2017 8:20 am

Something to think about: buying an expensive luxury car is a very public statement about your values and priorities. As a parent and a professor, you may want to consider the example you are setting for your children and your students.

You may also want to think about the effect driving such an expensive car to campus might have on your relationships with your colleagues, especially faculty in families with trailing spouses who may not be as fortunate as yours, those with disabled children, elderly relatives to support, etc. You might also think about the perceptions if you are getting out of your expensive car in a campus parking lot as students walk by with their visiting parents who may be struggling to pay the tuition bills that make your salary possible. If your tax-exempt private campus is under pressure to pay PILOT ("payments of lieu of taxes") to a struggling local municipality, you may want to consider the optics involved in driving such a car to campus.

I am not saying you have to go as far as former Harvard president Derek Bok, who could certainly have afforded a luxury car (and in fact Harvard made a limo and driver available to him) but chose to drive an ancient VW Beetle to campus (eventually auctioned off to support a campus charity), but as a professional educator you may want to think about the public statement you will be making and the example you are setting.
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afan
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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by afan » Fri May 12, 2017 8:45 am

Although I agree with the sentiments, the situation is very different for a university president than it is for run of the mill professors. Professors are essentially anonymous. Those who take classes from them will recognize them on campus, at least if it is not a huge lecture course where a student could be a long distance from someone lecturing at the front of the room.

To everyone else, a professor is just another face in the crowd. Many universities have "professors of the practice" in fields in which there is little academic work but a lot of practical knowledge. They need lawyers who know how to litigate, accountants who do audits, surgeons who operate, business executives who run companies and so forth to teach students these things that conventional professors do not do. These people may have high incomes and may drive their expensive cars to campus when they show up to teach. They may be collecting little or nothing in compensation. Plus, you have parents of students visiting campus and people from businesses collaborating with faculty.

Add it all up and seeing someone get out of a Maserati hardly leads to a reasonable conclusion that the individual is a professor and the cost of the car reflects the university payscale. If you saw the president of the university driving a luxury car you could take that as a symbol of the university, but not some random person who looks like she/he might be a professor.
If you think of holding on to a car for 10 years then the additional purchase cost of a luxury car is not that bad.
But still far worse than buying a used regular car and holding it for 10-15 years.
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tomservo14
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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by tomservo14 » Fri May 12, 2017 9:01 am

afan wrote:Let me clarify my "no, you cannot afford it" comment.

I should have said "you cannot afford to buy a luxury car, save enough for retirement and put away enough to pay for your kids' educations".

If you make "buy a luxury car" the critical priority, and rate retirement and kids' education as far less important, then you would be able to make the payments on the car. In that sense you can afford it.

For us, paying for our kids' education rated right after providing a safe and wholesome life for them at home. Luxury cars, fancy vacations, clothes, jewelry or entertainment were so low on the priority list that they could never compete. We delayed having a second child until we were confident both that we had a good start on savings for the first and that we had the cash flow to put together a fully funded college fund for the second as well. I took public transportation to work for years because it was cheaper than driving would have been.

As it turned out, we paid for education out of current cash flow and we have now fully funded our retirement. Note that this includes savings outside of tax favored plans. Just because there is a cap on tax favored contributions that does not mean that is all you need to save.

In that sense, I could afford a "luxury" car. But as the nail goes in just as deep with a regular hammer, when I get somewhere I am the same place I would have been if I were driving a Bentley (is that how you spell it?) If I cared more about driving around in a Rolls than I did about educating my kids, then I could have bought one.

The OP has too little in retirement savings for age, 4 kids to educate and a taste for expensive cars.

My advice "when your kids have graduated debt free and your retirement is fully funded, then see how much spare money you have lying around. At that point, buy whatever fancy car you can pay for in cash. Until then, save your money, you will need it."

We were prepared to fund graduate/professional school as well. Since I cared a lot about my kids and not at all about fancy cars, my approach reflected my priorities. YMMV
OP here. I'm not sure I followed the moral of this story. It sounds like at the end of the day, you paid for you kids' education out of your cash flow at the time, suggesting that you could have been a little less spartan in your lifestyle.

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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by Mcjamp2122 » Fri May 12, 2017 9:09 am

You may want to rent one your next vacation. I just drove the new X5 in Florida for a week and although it's obviously nice I think it's out of my system. All the engineering scares [(removed) --admin LadyGeek] me as we keep our cars for 10 years.

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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by dodecahedron » Fri May 12, 2017 9:19 am

It's not just presidents. BMWs driven by professors do apparently stir comment on campus, as Harvard's Greg Mankiw can tell you. When his BMW was totaled in a crash, it made the college newspaper.

Four years before that crash he had posted to his blog: Does your neighbors BMW make you feel bad?

That said, for many years I lived next door to a suburban public school teacher married to a physician. She drove a red BMW convertible. It didn't make me feel bad. Whatever floats your boat. Then again, I could afford a BMW, but didn't and still don't see any reason for one. (For climate justice and empathizing with the community reasons, I try to walk or take public transit as much as possible. I have a perfectly serviceable 10 year old Honda Accord when that's not practical.)
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afan
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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by afan » Fri May 12, 2017 9:21 am

tomservo14 wrote:
OP here. I'm not sure I followed the moral of this story. It sounds like at the end of the day, you paid for you kids' education out of your cash flow at the time, suggesting that you could have been a little less spartan in your lifestyle.

Moral was "save for the future so that we were as sure as possible to be able to meet our priorities when the time came".

We could not have been sure of that when they were small if we had been a little less spartan. It did work out, but we wanted as large a margin of error as possible. Since kids' education was important and being less spartan was not, there was no trade off.

From the OP, you are nowhere close to being sure you can cover the cost.

At current prices 4 years of undergrad at many private colleges (Harvard was used as an example) costs about a quarter million. For 4 kids, you would need $1M to cover college. Keep in mind that college costs have been rising faster than inflation for a long time. If your university really pays half the cost, that is great, but the deals with which I am familiar are not so generous. Often they cover tuition, but not room, board, books, or other expenses. Often they are capped at some level, not assuring to pay half the cost of any college one might choose.

You will know just what they do cover, but keep these other costs in mind, they add up.

If the kids go to grad school you need yet more money.
Plus, you need to save for retirement. Again, we wanted to be as sure as possible that we would be ok when we were too old to work to support ourselves. You are way behind on that as well.

As I said, our priorities made kids' education and retirement savings critical and living it up by spending extra money on luxuries much less important. So it was an easy decision.

Hence the recommendation: Save enough to fund 4 kids through college, accounting for however much your university will pay. Save enough to fund your retirement under quite conservative assumptions. When you have those funds socked away, spend whatever extra CASH you have on as expensive a car as you like. Until then, learn the value of frugality.
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afan
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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by afan » Fri May 12, 2017 9:26 am

But Mankiw is one of those very rare high profile professors. How many people not at Harvard could name 5 professors there? How many would recognize even one of them on sight?

He seeks out press attention and does the sorts of things that gets his name in the paper. Who else has vanity plates referring to their course and their highly successful intro textbook?

The vast majority of professors, even at Harvard, are anonymous outside of their fields. Quick- how many Harvard professors are members of the National Academy of Science and who are they?
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama

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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by tomservo14 » Fri May 12, 2017 10:42 am

afan wrote:
We could not have been sure of that when they were small if we had been a little less spartan. It did work out, but we wanted as large a margin of error as possible. Since kids' education was important and being less spartan was not, there was no trade off.

From the OP, you are nowhere close to being sure you can cover the cost.
I absolutely understand your point, but if it was as simple as luxuries vs kids education/welfare, then the decision would be easy. ..but it’s never that simple Despite what you may think, we have given our savings rate quite a bit of thought. I won’t bore you with the numbers, but between saving a bit ahead of time and our tuition benefit, we could cash flow all the kids going to Harvard, even with a fair amount of college inflation. It’d only be a bit more than what we pay now in daycare costs. If they decide to go to our flagship state school, we could pay for that with just savings. Similarly, our expenses are so low (almost all of what we pay for now is daycare, mortgage, and savings), that our projected retirement funds should be more than adequate, especially since neither of us is interested in early retirement. Because of a previous job benefit, most of our health care premiums will be taken care of in retirement.

Of course, saving more than what we’ve calculated is a good thing because it’s a hedge against the future. …but there’s also a cost associated with the regret of not pursuing interests, hobbies, and yes, individual luxuries. For you, this may have been a simple calculation, ….but for many people, including myself, it’s not.

…so I guess the subtext of my post was asking how one strikes a balance.

I don’t mean to be argumentative. I admire your savings rate. It sounds like you’ve won the game. Thanks for your comments.

Miguelito
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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by Miguelito » Fri May 12, 2017 10:52 am

afan wrote:To me a car is a tool for moving about. If it works safely and reliably, it makes no more sense to get a fancy one than to buy a hammer with a gold plated handle. Does it drive nails any better? No? Then don't waste money on it.
Not to nitpick, but that is a pretty bad analogy. Let's start by your own statement (highlighted) where you point out that that's how YOU view things. Don't project onto others.

As for the analogy, a more expensive car doesn't only get "gold plating." It's more like having a hammer with a slippery and awkward handle, made of soft steel and with a poorly designed claw. The other hammer has a non-slip ergonomic handle, is properly balanced, it's got a good claw, it's shock absorbing, and most importantly is made of a better material. Yeah, I can hammer with the crappy hammer, but if I can afford it, I'm buying the nicer hammer. And guess what, it will hammer a nail better and easier. And by the way, gold-plated hammers would suck.


Back to the OP, I'm a car guy and wrestling with a similar question. I am a big car guy and understand the draw. (Sidebar: I'm a BMW fan, but I just don't get the X5 - it's got a tiny cargo area - pretty car though).

When it comes to cars, you need to look at cost of ownership. In that regard, a lease-type calculation is needed (depreciation, time value of money, etc). Your real cost could vary a lot even if you consider the same number of years of ownership.

Scenario 1: 8k miles/year, garaged, meticulously maintained, in excellent condition, detailed twice a year, warmed up properly, etc. Good price negotiated up front, privately sold.
Scenario 2: 18k miles/year, parked outside all the time under pine trees, token car wash once a year, forget to perform schedule maintenance, scuffs and scratches galore. Decent discount up front, traded in down the road.

The difference in cost of ownership as far as resale value, likelihood of repairs, buy/sell prices, etc. is all going to affect what it really costs to own. I've owned nice BMW's for less than it would cost to lease an Accord.

Finally, it's all about where you spend your money. The biggest spending issue I see is that people want to have it all: the nice house, nice cars, nice clothes, nice vacation, latest electronics, social life, eating out, etc. I believe in understanding your needs and figuring out what you can spend on wants. How you spread your "wants" budget among the different buckets of wants is your call.

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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by investor997 » Fri May 12, 2017 11:39 am

Just a data point on leasing BMWs:

In early 2007, I entered a 24 month lease on an E90 335i. I got a screaming deal ($0 cap cost reduction, very low money factor, very high residual) and did European Delivery on top of that. It was an awesome experience. The lease was up in January '09 right as we hit peak global financial crisis. BMW DID NOT want the car back. I haggled with a few dealers and was eventually able to find one to sell me the car back from BMW Financial Services for $9K under the residual value. I then drove the car an additional five years before finally selling it due to fears of impending expensive repairs and maintenance. It's been a couple years since I sold it but I still miss it to this day - the newer F30 models were drastically cheapened out and simply lost the magic.

Bottom line: I'd never buy a BMW. They artificially bake incentives into leases that make them cheaper to drive over the lease duration than buying them outright. Owning one for the long term (say, 10 years) is risky due to their propensity to incur expensive repairs once they age beyond ~100K miles.

afan
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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by afan » Fri May 12, 2017 12:50 pm

To the OP. It seems I misunderstood your initial post. My reading said to me "not even close to providing for retirement and kids' education". If in fact you have those funded and in any case could pay for kids education out of current cash flow, then you are in a very different situation. I did not think so from what I read, but you know your situation better than I do.

If the question is trade off of current consumption vs not, assuming important goals like retirement and education are already covered, then let me give another story from our past.

When I got my first real job we bought a house. We did not buy a house in an area where my colleagues tended to buy. Our neighbors were much more likely to be school teachers than orthopedic surgeons or big shot lawyers. They lived the lives that school teachers could afford and we tended to live like our neighbors, rather than my colleagues. As my income grew we did not experience lifestyle creep. We did not decide that we should "reward" ourselves with expensive things just because we could afford to pay for them. My neighbors were living happy wholesome lives, raising kids, without the level of expense that many people with our income seem to find necessary.

In the case of a car, one has to ask "would it make my life enough better to get this more expensive car to justify the cost?" Start with "would it make my life ANY better to get this more expensive car?" If the answer to the latter is "no" then you have the answer to the former.

If, for whatever reason, you really like expensive cars and you think your life is the poorer without them, then they are clearly worth far more to you than they would be to me. I would rather have the cash. Even if someone were to give me an expensive car for free, I would still have to insure it and maintain it, which would cost more money.

Back to hammers. A poorly functioning hammer would be dangerous and ineffective.

A well functioning hammer is as good as hammers get.

A car that gets me where I want to go safely and reliably has done everything useful a car can do. A Camry, for example, would be not only good enough. It would exactly as good as a Silver Shadow. A self driving Honda would be better than either.

I suppose I am in the position of not having expensive things I want to buy that I think would make my life better. There are plenty of things I want in life, but they are not for sale at any price. If I had 10 times as much money there is no expensive thing I would go out and buy once I could afford it.

I certainly would not replace my car. It works fine. Same for my hammer.

I really don't spend money any differently than I did when I started working.

I am not denying myself. I just realize that I have enough. Enough clothes, healthy food, clean water, safe home. There is not something I can buy to improve on that.

And I don't care about the other stuff some people buy- foreign travel, fine wine, tailored suits and handmade shoes, jewelry, whatever. I deeply and sincerely do not understand why anyone buys that stuff.

If want to see art I go to the museum on their once a month free Sundays. I don't need to own the art. I can listen to great music and read great literature cheap or free.

For people who have long lists of expensive things they want and are trying to decide which ones they can afford when, I sympathize.

I suspect they have fallen victim to advertising that has created demand for things that have quite limited intrinsic value. They pay a lot of money because they can and someone is always ready to come up with something else to sell them. I think some eventually decide that there really are not expensive things that will make their lives better. Then they calm down and stop chasing happiness in the form of luxury. Others keep this up and manage to blow a lot of money on this dream. If they are happy, good for them.

I suppose I am saying to look more carefully at the embedded assumptions that this more expensive car is better than a less expensive alternative. That it is better in a meaningful sense of improving one's life. The car might be faster, but how fast is it legal to go? It might be able to take a tighter turn at high speed, but again, there are limits of prudence and laws that control whether one would actually do that. It might, or might not, be a bit quieter, but is the less quiet alternative so noisy that this matters at all?

Financially, if you have covered your retirement and kids' education and have enough cash around to buy a BMW, then you can afford it. I did not think so from your post, but I may have misinterpreted.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama

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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by bloom2708 » Fri May 12, 2017 1:07 pm

Set the car aside for a minute. The value I see in the replies is that one person's "I'm killing my retirement savings.." is another's "not quite there yet..."

"On the way" and "there" are two different things. Another good post by afan :idea:
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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by monkey_business » Fri May 12, 2017 1:17 pm

afan wrote:Back to hammers. A poorly functioning hammer would be dangerous and ineffective.

A well functioning hammer is as good as hammers get.

A car that gets me where I want to go safely and reliably has done everything useful a car can do. A Camry, for example, would be not only good enough. It would exactly as good as a Silver Shadow. A self driving Honda would be better than either.
If we had a tasteless paste that provided you with all the macro and micro nutrients your body needs, would you stop eating regular food and just eat the paste?

Some people want more from a car than just safety and reliability, just like some people want more than just calories and nutrients from food.

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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by alfaspider » Fri May 12, 2017 1:25 pm

afan wrote:
A well functioning hammer is as good as hammers get.
Well, that's where you are wrong. There are many different types of hammers for different jobs. Ball peen hammers, mallets, dead blow hammers, framing hammers, sledge hammers. Use the wrong tool and you won't get the results you want :mrgreen:

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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by wrongfunds » Fri May 12, 2017 4:28 pm

foreign travel
This should get lot more responses now :-)

I mean if you have seen one large city, why do you need to see another one? They are all the same! If you see one large water fall, you don't need to visit another one. Why can't you just visit all the touristy points from the comfort of your sofa on a high definition TV rather than subjecting yourself to multi-hour grueling plane ride?

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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by bloom2708 » Fri May 12, 2017 4:32 pm

monkey_business wrote:
If we had a tasteless paste that provided you with all the macro and micro nutrients your body needs, would you stop eating regular food and just eat the paste?
We do! Google "Soylent". :wink:
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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by tomservo14 » Fri May 12, 2017 6:05 pm

wrongfunds wrote:
foreign travel
This should get lot more responses now :-)

I mean if you have seen one large city, why do you need to see another one? They are all the same! If you see one large water fall, you don't need to visit another one. Why can't you just visit all the touristy points from the comfort of your sofa on a high definition TV rather than subjecting yourself to multi-hour grueling plane ride?
Yeah, he kind of lost me at this point. The wife and I do a fair amount of conference travel to international locations for work, but if we go somewhere interesting, we try to stay a few days on our own dime. One of my deathbed memories will be of me and wife exploring Paris together. Definitely worth the money. To each his own.

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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by daveydoo » Fri May 12, 2017 6:47 pm

afan wrote: A car that gets me where I want to go safely and reliably has done everything useful a car can do. A Camry, for example, would be not only good enough. It would exactly as good as a Silver Shadow.
Like all these arguments on BH (wine, watches, cars, houses, cameras, colleges, spouses), it comes down to connoisseurship. Just because you can't tell the difference, it doesn't mean there is no difference. If margarine tastes exactly like butter to you, then by all means just buy margarine. And if nothin' beats Applebee's in your book, then please stay at Applebee's and enjoy. But maybe don't assume that there is no difference just because you can neither detect nor appreciate it. I've happily owned cars that (barely) get me from point A to point B. And, at a different life stage, I've happily owned cars with over 400 lb-ft of torque. I can detect and appreciate the difference. Whether the difference justifies the expense is a conversation worth having. But denying the difference just exposes how little one knows.
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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by wrongfunds » Sat May 13, 2017 8:56 am

When I think about buying some irrational vehicle because I have the money, the BMW X series has never appealed to me. If I wanted something similar, I would much rather go broke with a Cayenne Turbo. It would be lot more fun to drive but will give you similar massive headaches of ownership. At least with Cayenne, it will be justified. They take massive depreciation hit. Decide how much play money you have. Divide it by 2 and use it to purchase something crazy aka somebody else's headache and use the other half to fix it when something *does* go wrong.

Personally, I am building up my courage (and *the* permission :-) to obtain a massively depreciated S-class and to get it out of my system. The way I look at it is that if the vehicle is going to put me emotionally in the poor house, why settle for a mediocre one? Sort of like why settle for an average mistress? If you can't have a super model as a mistress, you are better of staying with your wife :-)

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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by stoptothink » Sat May 13, 2017 9:34 am

afan wrote:To the OP. It seems I misunderstood your initial post. My reading said to me "not even close to providing for retirement and kids' education". If in fact you have those funded and in any case could pay for kids education out of current cash flow, then you are in a very different situation. I did not think so from what I read, but you know your situation better than I do.

If the question is trade off of current consumption vs not, assuming important goals like retirement and education are already covered, then let me give another story from our past.

When I got my first real job we bought a house. We did not buy a house in an area where my colleagues tended to buy. Our neighbors were much more likely to be school teachers than orthopedic surgeons or big shot lawyers. They lived the lives that school teachers could afford and we tended to live like our neighbors, rather than my colleagues. As my income grew we did not experience lifestyle creep. We did not decide that we should "reward" ourselves with expensive things just because we could afford to pay for them. My neighbors were living happy wholesome lives, raising kids, without the level of expense that many people with our income seem to find necessary.

In the case of a car, one has to ask "would it make my life enough better to get this more expensive car to justify the cost?" Start with "would it make my life ANY better to get this more expensive car?" If the answer to the latter is "no" then you have the answer to the former.

If, for whatever reason, you really like expensive cars and you think your life is the poorer without them, then they are clearly worth far more to you than they would be to me. I would rather have the cash. Even if someone were to give me an expensive car for free, I would still have to insure it and maintain it, which would cost more money.

Back to hammers. A poorly functioning hammer would be dangerous and ineffective.

A well functioning hammer is as good as hammers get.

A car that gets me where I want to go safely and reliably has done everything useful a car can do. A Camry, for example, would be not only good enough. It would exactly as good as a Silver Shadow. A self driving Honda would be better than either.

I suppose I am in the position of not having expensive things I want to buy that I think would make my life better. There are plenty of things I want in life, but they are not for sale at any price. If I had 10 times as much money there is no expensive thing I would go out and buy once I could afford it.

I certainly would not replace my car. It works fine. Same for my hammer.

I really don't spend money any differently than I did when I started working.

I am not denying myself. I just realize that I have enough. Enough clothes, healthy food, clean water, safe home. There is not something I can buy to improve on that.

And I don't care about the other stuff some people buy- foreign travel, fine wine, tailored suits and handmade shoes, jewelry, whatever. I deeply and sincerely do not understand why anyone buys that stuff.

If want to see art I go to the museum on their once a month free Sundays. I don't need to own the art. I can listen to great music and read great literature cheap or free.

For people who have long lists of expensive things they want and are trying to decide which ones they can afford when, I sympathize.

I suspect they have fallen victim to advertising that has created demand for things that have quite limited intrinsic value. They pay a lot of money because they can and someone is always ready to come up with something else to sell them. I think some eventually decide that there really are not expensive things that will make their lives better. Then they calm down and stop chasing happiness in the form of luxury. Others keep this up and manage to blow a lot of money on this dream. If they are happy, good for them.

I suppose I am saying to look more carefully at the embedded assumptions that this more expensive car is better than a less expensive alternative. That it is better in a meaningful sense of improving one's life. The car might be faster, but how fast is it legal to go? It might be able to take a tighter turn at high speed, but again, there are limits of prudence and laws that control whether one would actually do that. It might, or might not, be a bit quieter, but is the less quiet alternative so noisy that this matters at all?

Financially, if you have covered your retirement and kids' education and have enough cash around to buy a BMW, then you can afford it. I did not think so from your post, but I may have misinterpreted.
You put my perspective on most consumer goods far better than I have. I guess I am just wired differently. Functionality isn't just the most important consideration when I look to make purchases, it is almost the only consideration. I seriously don't understand why people buy a ton of things on a regular basis that normal adults are just expected to have in the modern world, they would bring no value to my life, regardless of cost. I actually love cars, but the thought of ever buying a luxury vehicle doesn't ever cross my mind because a vehicle having way more power than I could ever use on public roads or alcantara seats provides almost no value to my life let alone several times that of a base model. We have the means to afford luxury vehicles, but I much prefer to walk or ride my bike and we have an "appliance" when we really need to drive. We are apparently outliers.

To the OP, if they value it, they can certainly afford the BMW. Just not what I would do.

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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by ray333 » Sat May 13, 2017 2:19 pm

I'd rather be rich then look rich while stuck in traffic ... did the fancy car thing in my early 20s ... hated the attention it brought me and in the end, would've been much better off investing the difference between a luxury German automobile and a honda civic

I'd also still probably have the Honda Civic, but whatever the new ones are lovely

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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by Chris001122 » Sat May 13, 2017 2:25 pm

I personally would not buy this luxury car. I think you could put this money towards retirement, college for your children, or paying off your home. I believe all three of those choices to be more sensible and will increase your wealth. The car will not. It will most likely go down in value over time and that is the opposite of building wealth.
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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by stlrick » Sat May 13, 2017 3:27 pm

I'd say don't do it for two reasons. First, 4 kids. Second, sorry, but the X5 is not a "fun car." It's a BMW, but it's an SUV. We looked long and hard at BMW, Porsche, Audi, Mercedes, and Lexus SUVs, and decided that once you got to the comfort of an Acura, anything more than that was kidding ourselves.When you can buy a Boxster, or maybe the 3-series, then that's a fun car.

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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by burt » Sat May 13, 2017 6:00 pm

I always wondered why a person would buy a Porsche 911 Turbo while crawling in traffic at 30 mph.
Maybe they are making a statement... A statement, which I wouldn't want to advertise.

burt

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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by emoore » Sat May 13, 2017 6:44 pm

burt wrote:I always wondered why a person would buy a Porsche 911 Turbo while crawling in traffic at 30 mph.
Maybe they are making a statement... A statement, which I wouldn't want to advertise.

burt
Maybe they are not always crawling in traffic?

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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by Chan_va » Sat May 13, 2017 9:56 pm

OP, of course you can afford it. But you are sorely mistaken if you think the x5 is 'fun' or truly 'luxury'. It's a people hauler. My advice - buy a cheap people hauler but buy yourself another fun car. Which leads us inexorably to the only logical answer that all car threads eventually converge to...Buy a Miata.

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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by wrongfunds » Sun May 14, 2017 9:37 am

...Buy a Miata.
Not on this forum!!

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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by daveydoo » Sun May 14, 2017 12:36 pm

burt wrote:I always wondered why a person would buy a Porsche 911 Turbo while crawling in traffic at 30 mph.
Maybe they are making a statement... A statement, which I wouldn't want to advertise.
That's nothing. I once saw one just parked in a parking lot! What an idiot. And while hiking on vacation, I passed a guy with a $3000 camera around his neck and he wasn't even taking pictures!

Obviously, they were both just trying to impress me. SAD!

OTOH, I guess there is a chance that they enjoyed these things even when I wasn't looking.
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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by KyleAAA » Sun May 14, 2017 3:26 pm

Chan_va wrote:OP, of course you can afford it. But you are sorely mistaken if you think the x5 is 'fun' or truly 'luxury'. It's a people hauler. My advice - buy a cheap people hauler but buy yourself another fun car. Which leads us inexorably to the only logical answer that all car threads eventually converge to...Buy a Miata.
Agree, Miata is the answer. There are plentiful reasonably-priced used options to choose from.

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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by Nova1967 » Sun May 14, 2017 3:43 pm

If you can afford it a Porsche 911 is a great choice, they can blend into the landscape, they have much more bang for the buck than Ferarri or Lamborghini, and they have good resale value.
It's a matter of values and some people like nice cars. Not everyone wants to travel to Paris or go on cruises every year.

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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by EnjoyIt » Sun May 14, 2017 4:08 pm

Chan_va wrote:OP, of course you can afford it. But you are sorely mistaken if you think the x5 is 'fun' or truly 'luxury'. It's a people hauler. My advice - buy a cheap people hauler but buy yourself another fun car. Which leads us inexorably to the only logical answer that all car threads eventually converge to...Buy a Miata.
+1
X5 just does not seam like anything special other than the BMW name. I would get a CRV or Rav4 and then a small sporty coupe or roadster with the saved money. Not only do you get a reliable care for daily use, you get the fun car whenever you want and by not driving it every day you will enjoy it that much more and for far longer making the purchase more reasonable. If you really have to have a BMW a 3 year old z4 may do the trick. I would definitely consider a miata or BRZ as well as boxster if you want fancy/luxury.

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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by aqan » Sun May 14, 2017 4:24 pm

you're making enough money that you can fulfill your long time desires... go for it otherwise you'll end up spending a lot more when you retire:)

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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by afan » Mon May 15, 2017 9:19 am

Fascinating range of opinions about the motivations for buying a car.

Since I have been assigned the curmudgeon role, I continue:

I have ridden in high powered cars and occasionally driven them. When driving them it can be obvious that I have to press gently on the accelerator to maintain safe and cautious driving behavior. When riding in them this is not apparent unless the driver wants to show off the speed of the car. Occasionally I have to remind someone that we are on a public road, not a race track.

But let's say I am driving a Maserati Testosteroni at 30 mph in a 30 mph zone. Let's say the car in front of me is a Prius, also going 30 mph. The MT could go much faster than the Prius on a test track, but here in traffic we are both going the same speed. If I were to speed up to 35 mph for more than a very short time I would crash into the car ahead of me. So it does not matter whether the top speed of my car is 65 or 200. I cannot go faster than 30.

The MT may be able to sail along at 140 mph all day long. But there are no roads where this would be legal.

The combination of traffic and traffic laws dictate the speed, no matter what car one may be driving. If I am sitting 4th in line at a traffic light, I may know that my car could go extremely fast on the autobahn. But I am not on the autobahn. I am 4th in line at a traffic light. A poorly maintained 10 year old Prius with failing batteries can accelerate as fast as traffic and laws will permit. My MT will not get me to work any faster because the speed of the car is not the limiting factor.

It is like buying a high expense ratio mutual fund because I am impressed by the depth of the carpet or the richness of the teak in the salesperson's office. The purpose of the fund is risk adjusted return and the luxurious surroundings I value at zero. The purpose of a car is safe reliable transportation- within the legal limits of driving behavior. The ability to grossly exceed the speed limits are valued at zero, since I have no intention of ever doing that.

The priorities would be different if I were smuggling moonshine or escaping after robbing a bank.

Driving slowly and cautiously is easier on the car, consumes less gas and minimizes the risk of a crash. All are money saving considerations.

Regular cars are cheaper to insure simply because of the lower cost and insurance company experience with how they are driven. Having never in life had a moving violation, I get very good insurance rates.

If I were to take my driving record and get some car whose appeal is based on 400 lb ft of torque, my insurance rates would go up. And I would not get to work one minute earlier.
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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by EnjoyIt » Mon May 15, 2017 10:30 am

afan wrote:Fascinating range of opinions about the motivations for buying a car.

Since I have been assigned the curmudgeon role, I continue:

I have ridden in high powered cars and occasionally driven them. When driving them it can be obvious that I have to press gently on the accelerator to maintain safe and cautious driving behavior. When riding in them this is not apparent unless the driver wants to show off the speed of the car. Occasionally I have to remind someone that we are on a public road, not a race track.

But let's say I am driving a Maserati Testosteroni at 30 mph in a 30 mph zone. Let's say the car in front of me is a Prius, also going 30 mph. The MT could go much faster than the Prius on a test track, but here in traffic we are both going the same speed. If I were to speed up to 35 mph for more than a very short time I would crash into the car ahead of me. So it does not matter whether the top speed of my car is 65 or 200. I cannot go faster than 30.

The MT may be able to sail along at 140 mph all day long. But there are no roads where this would be legal.

The combination of traffic and traffic laws dictate the speed, no matter what car one may be driving. If I am sitting 4th in line at a traffic light, I may know that my car could go extremely fast on the autobahn. But I am not on the autobahn. I am 4th in line at a traffic light. A poorly maintained 10 year old Prius with failing batteries can accelerate as fast as traffic and laws will permit. My MT will not get me to work any faster because the speed of the car is not the limiting factor.

It is like buying a high expense ratio mutual fund because I am impressed by the depth of the carpet or the richness of the teak in the salesperson's office. The purpose of the fund is risk adjusted return and the luxurious surroundings I value at zero. The purpose of a car is safe reliable transportation- within the legal limits of driving behavior. The ability to grossly exceed the speed limits are valued at zero, since I have no intention of ever doing that.

The priorities would be different if I were smuggling moonshine or escaping after robbing a bank.

Driving slowly and cautiously is easier on the car, consumes less gas and minimizes the risk of a crash. All are money saving considerations.

Regular cars are cheaper to insure simply because of the lower cost and insurance company experience with how they are driven. Having never in life had a moving violation, I get very good insurance rates.

If I were to take my driving record and get some car whose appeal is based on 400 lb ft of torque, my insurance rates would go up. And I would not get to work one minute earlier.
afan,
Although I fully agree that luxury cars and sports cars are very expensive toys it does not mean that they have no value to some people. Some like to take their fast cars to a road track and drive it quickly around the course experiencing all the benefits a fast car has to offer. Others enjoy the surge in power for a few seconds when hitting the entrance ramp of a highway or passing someone. Some people really enjoy the leather ventilated seats, the quite ride and the surround sound in their luxury vehicles. I am sure you can appreciate someone who drives to work 1 hour each way wanting something very comfortable and quite if they can afford it. For an extreme example there are a few people who will buy a Bentley and hire a driver to get them to work. The expense is worth it since they can sit in the back, working, making more money than the cost/price of the luxury. While there are many who just buy expensive cars to show off to others how much money they can spend. Each one of those items has value to the owner. That value may not be worth it to you, but it may be to the buyer of that expensive vehicle. Personally I laugh at the people who buy sports cars and drive them like a Prius. I assume they bought that car for status which I think is kinda sad.

I will admit that most Americans do not understand how much money they are throwing away on vehicles because they just don't know any better.

Disclaimer: I have a 400hp+ luxury coupe that I drive to work on occasion but also take to the track a few times a year. This car should easily last me for 10 years and I have thoroughly enjoyed owning it for the last 5.

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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by ncbill » Mon May 15, 2017 6:58 pm

No moral argument here, but, lease rather than use most all of your projected (not until later this summer?) liquid funds.

Especially to buy a vehicle with multiple problem areas, according to actual owner reports.

It is more expensive than buying outright, but your income easily covers the cost.

If you love it, keep leasing. Given the above, you don't want to own one out of warranty.
tomservo14 wrote:…but there’s also a cost associated with the regret of not pursuing interests, hobbies, and yes, individual luxuries. For you, this may have been a simple calculation, ….but for many people, including myself, it’s not.

…so I guess the subtext of my post was asking how one strikes a balance.

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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by visualguy » Mon May 15, 2017 7:44 pm

The problem with owning luxury cars is the cost of maintaining that lifestyle over the long term. Most people don't do it just once. They buy/lease one for themselves and one for their spouse repeatedly every few years. Over time, this adds up to literally hundreds of thousands of $$$ more than buying reliable non-luxury cars and keeping them for 10+ years. If you do the math, you realize the staggering magnitude of the financial impact, but it's extremely tempting not to do the math and live in ignorance/denial. I was certainly in that category until I forced myself to do the math...

One way to mitigate this, but still have fun, is to have just one luxury car for the family (not two or more), and to buy a reliable one and keep it for 10+ years. This means Lexus and maybe Acura. You don't want to own the current-generation Germans past warranty (way too prone to expensive repairs), so those are kind of a financial trap unless money is truly not an issue for you. Just as an example, one adaptive LED headlight on the BMW 5-series is $2,000.

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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by Yesterdaysnews » Mon May 15, 2017 8:15 pm

wrongfunds wrote: Personally, I am building up my courage (and *the* permission :-) to obtain a massively depreciated S-class and to get it out of my system. The way I look at it is that if the vehicle is going to put me emotionally in the poor house, why settle for a mediocre one? Sort of like why settle for an average mistress? If you can't have a super model as a mistress, you are better of staying with your wife :-)
^^^ LOL brilliant! Words to live by :sharebeer

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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by lazydavid » Mon May 15, 2017 8:43 pm

visualguy wrote:Just as an example, one adaptive LED headlight on the BMW 5-series is $2,000.
Just as a counter-example, one HID headlight on my wife's RX350 is $1700 (aftermarket ones are more like $1100-1200)--I'm sure the LEDs on the newer models are more expensive. That coupled with a tendency for them to leak and fog up is the primary reason we got the extended warranty.

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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by visualguy » Mon May 15, 2017 10:48 pm

lazydavid wrote:
visualguy wrote:Just as an example, one adaptive LED headlight on the BMW 5-series is $2,000.
Just as a counter-example, one HID headlight on my wife's RX350 is $1700 (aftermarket ones are more like $1100-1200)--I'm sure the LEDs on the newer models are more expensive. That coupled with a tendency for them to leak and fog up is the primary reason we got the extended warranty.
Yes, Lexus is expensive too. I heard the headlight on one Lexus model (not sure which one) is $4,000.

That's the reason I said make sure you get only at most one luxury car. Not one for you and one for your spouse...

Lexus is more reliable than BMW, Audi, Mercedes, and easier to fix. I would be willing to keep a Lexus for 10-12 years, but wouldn't consider that with current-generation German cars.

Clearly, from a financial perspective, it's best to stay away from luxury cars altogether if you can (again, unless money is not an issue).

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Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by daveydoo » Tue May 16, 2017 12:26 am

afan wrote:
Since I have been assigned the curmudgeon role...
You're not a curmudgeon; you just aren't knowledgeable about cars or why people other than you buy and enjoy them.
afan wrote: I have ridden in high powered cars and occasionally driven them. When driving them it can be obvious that I have to press gently on the accelerator to maintain safe and cautious driving behavior.
Yes, this is why you do not speak for the rest of us :D . If your top speed is speed-limit-minus-five, then you're best off in your Camry.
afan wrote: Occasionally I have to remind someone that we are on a public road, not a race track.
I think I've driven behind you... :happy
afan wrote: ...but here in traffic we are both going the same speed...My MT will not get me to work any faster because the speed of the car is not the limiting factor.
Only if I'm stuck behind you. I use my torque to get in front of you, where there is invariably lots of open road in my neighborhood.
afan wrote: But there are no roads where this would be legal.
Quick acceleration is legal on every road. And even children are taught in Driver Ed to stay within seven of the speed limit, not 5 or 10 under. When I drive to work early on weekend mornings, I may only encounter a handful of cars on the ten-mile trip. Not everyone lives in your bumper-to-bumper nightmare.
afan wrote: The ability to grossly exceed the speed limits are valued at zero, since I have no intention of ever doing that.
No, the joy of a high-torque car is the acceleration -- not driving in gross excess of the speed limit. Because you do not participate in this activity, I feel that you're not qualified to gauge its merits. A high-horsepower car is wonderful for driving in gross excess of the speed limit -- but sightlines make this unsafe where I live. That is why I do not have a (particularly) high-hp car. And more than torque or hp, performance cars tend to have far superior handling, which is a joy if you have never experienced it. And much better brakes. And you don't need to be an expert to notice those things almost immediately.
afan wrote: Regular cars are cheaper to insure simply because of the lower cost and insurance company experience with how they are driven...If I were to take my driving record and get some car whose appeal is based on 400 lb ft of torque, my insurance rates would go up.
My 428 lb-ft of torque 6-cylinder diesel sedan is actually cheaper to insure than our Honda and our (admittedly new) Mazda. It has a book value of ~ $16K (on a good day) and is nether extravagant nor expensive to insure.

Again, you're entitled to your opinions about you, but you seem to not understand why people buy quick cars or how they enjoy them. So I fear you're out of your element on the topic of this thread. I have driven an old Camry for ten years and an old CR-V for ten years and I really enjoy my now-old high-torque highly-depreciated German diesel. And I'm certain that 90% of BH could tell the difference and would enjoy it, too. (Oh, and I get great fuel economy, too.) Most of us have no opportunity to drive a car like this since rental cars tend to be abysmal -- far worse than even the "practical" cars we typically drive at home. I'm not saying a performance car is a better purchase; I'm simply pointing out the clear advantages in certain areas.

Again, whether those advantages warrant the higher initial expense or the potential for more expensive maintenance is all part of the equation and is worth discussing on threads like this one. But to say, in essence, that ties are a complete waste of money simply because you don't wear one -- well, that doesn't really advance the conversation.
"I mean, it's one banana, Michael...what could it cost? Ten dollars?"

2m2037
Posts: 203
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 4:48 pm

Re: Buying a luxury car (how dumb would it be to do this?)

Post by 2m2037 » Tue May 16, 2017 1:21 am

OP: for what it's worth, you may want to consider buying used (non-CPO) and using the $ savings to buy a good extended warranty from a reputable company to hedge your risk of multiple expensive repairs. There're warranties that require you to pay as little as $100 out of pocket for each repair.

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