Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

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BashDash
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Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by BashDash » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:16 pm

Hi all,
Thanks for all the recent help in my previous posts regarding deciding whether to sell our residence turned condo and some negotiation tips. I have poured thru previous posts on for sale by owner. We tried to sell to current tenant but to no avail. They end lease in August. We want to start showing it when empty as we think it will show the best with no one in there plus they are using a bit of a non traditional lay out for a 2bd 2 bath condo with the huge living room set up for a bedroom.

Current plan is to post it on Zillow, trulia, and for sale by owner.com
When should we do this if we can't show it until they are out? Could we get lucky and find a buyer without them seeing it. We have great pics but wouldn't think that would be enough. I am willing to try this method for one month before getting a realtor. Worst case we miss one month rent and possibly more with realtor too.

Also we are going to try and do word of mouth they friends, family and job.

Any other tips? Looking to keep costs low as we purchased at 2007 market peak for 315k and would be thrilled to get 220k at this point.

Thanks in advance!

JGoneRiding
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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by JGoneRiding » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:17 pm

2 weeks before it should be empty , plan an open house.

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Cobra Commander
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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by Cobra Commander » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:19 pm

I would try to use a flat fee broker that will put it on the MLS server for $200-$300. Zillow sucks, their listing are always outdated and it takes several days for them to pick up listings. Redfin pulls from MLS and that's the only site worth using to browse for a home anyways.

Lindrobe
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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by Lindrobe » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:31 pm

Cobra Commander wrote:I would try to use a flat fee broker that will put it on the MLS server for $200-$300. Zillow sucks, their listing are always outdated and it takes several days for them to pick up listings. Redfin pulls from MLS and that's the only site worth using to browse for a home anyways.


I don't even think we have Redfin in the area I live.

BashDash
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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by BashDash » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:33 pm

It seems forsalebyowner.com gets you on the MLS for free but I need to do more research.

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Watty
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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by Watty » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:35 pm

BashDash wrote:Also we are going to try and do word of mouth they friends, family and job.


If the condo has a newsletter or bulletin board also try putting some information about it here. There could be someone else renting in the building that might be interested.

Rmats
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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by Rmats » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:43 pm

Keep in mind if you go with a fixed fee broker to get on the MLS you'll still most likely be responsible for the buyers agent commission. While the MLS is the best source, Zillow and Realtor.com both get lots of traffic in most markets. I would definitely wait till it's vacant and clean to show it. You'll also want to talk to a real estate attorney to help you with the contract/paperwork.

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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by Carefreeap » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:45 pm

Watty wrote:
BashDash wrote:Also we are going to try and do word of mouth they friends, family and job.


If the condo has a newsletter or bulletin board also try putting some information about it here. There could be someone else renting in the building that might be interested.


This is an excellent idea. :thumbsup

Not only renters but possibly owners who have a smaller or larger unit. Also friends of current owners.

I'm getting ready to put my mom's condo on the market. I let some select neighbors know and I have some serious interest from the couple across the hall. I would love for them to have it but we'll see if they can make it work.

I'm putting it on the market with my real estate May 18th listing the neighbors as an exception to paying a commission. My tenant leaves May 7th and I have some repairs/painting to do. Open house set for the weekend of May 20/21.

Carefreeap
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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by Carefreeap » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:50 pm

Rmats wrote:Keep in mind if you go with a fixed fee broker to get on the MLS you'll still most likely be responsible for the buyers agent commission. While the MLS is the best source, Zillow and Realtor.com both get lots of traffic in most markets. I would definitely wait till it's vacant and clean to show it. You'll also want to talk to a real estate attorney to help you with the contract/paperwork.


Another +1

My condo is in the La Jolla Shores area of San Diego and looks like it will sell for around $700k. I've checked with my attorney and he'll give me a break on his time (he's a partner but will charge an associate's rate) but the estimate is still about $9,500. If I use my real estate agent for a private sale it will cost close to the same amount.

psteinx
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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by psteinx » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:54 pm

If it were me, I'd likely be waiting until after it's empty to show/sell.

I don't know about the exact condition of the condo, of course, but I'd strongly consider something like the following:

Tenant(s) moves out on day X.

Go by to closely inspect the current condition of the unit on day X + 2 (say). Then:

Start with a thorough cleaning.

Likely paint most/all walls.

Consider replacing some flooring, especially carpeting, if it's significantly worn. Note though, that a good deep carpet cleaning may also considerably improve the appearance of existing carpeting.

Evaluate the kitchen and bath areas. How dated do they look? I wouldn't necessarily be looking to do a full kitchen or bath reno before selling, but a good cleaning, and perhaps some spot upgrades here and there would be helpful.

Check for basic plumbing, electrical and similar issues. Yes, buyers may get an inspection and request other repairs. But ideally, before you put it on the market, you should resolve broken switches, leaking faucets, and the like.

Consider staging the unit. Not sure if this is really necessary though, especially for a small-ish unit. I guess it's cost & hassle versus likely price improvement. For a simple condo, potential buyers may be able to imagine/project well enough so that staging is superfluous. But it's worth considering.

As for self-list versus using an agent - not sure. Much depends on your own particular skills and comfort level, sense of urgency versus goal of maximizing net proceeds, and so on...

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hand
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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by hand » Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:53 pm

Recognize that dynamics are likely different for a rental than they are for a permanent residence:
1) There is a carrying cost for every day of vacancy before the sale
2) Property is likely in worse condition at move out, and there may be a decent amount of deferred maintenance

Conceptually there are at least four windows to agree a sale:

1) With tenants in place (property as-is)
2) With tenants in place, but move-out committed (property as-is)
3) Tenants gone (property as-is)
4) Tenants gone, (property rehabbed to turn-key)

Different windows and different buyers require different approaches; your job is to determine which window(s) you wish to target and which strategy will be most effective for your needs.

When I sold my rental, my thought process was as follows:

A) Buyers who might be interested in buying tenants or an unrehabbed rental without tenants are likely to be able to see past cosmetic issues, and to be looking for a bargain.
B) There is a real cost to vacancy, rehab and likely realtor fees for the turnkey rehab
C) There is additional risk to rehabbing
D) There is almost no cost to listing as-is with tenants in place / on their way out with the free sites

I considered my likely proceeds if I rehabbed (net of carrying costs & realtor fees), subtracted 2% in recognition that a deal today was less risky and less hassle than a potential post-rehab deal (and in hopes of attracting multiple offers) and listed on the free sites. Cost was $0, and risk was basically zero as if there was no interest I could always pull off the market, rehab and relist in basically the same position as if I hadn't listed as-is.

While I didn't get a ton of interest, it only takes one, and I ended up making a deal with my buyers before my renters vacated and closing (as is) two weeks after the renters left. Buyers paid 1% to their realtor, and I paid nothing. Net proceeds were slightly higher than what a realtor listed rehab would have brought and risk / hassle was arguably lower.

Only complication was convincing renters to permit a showing, but a dinner out and a couple bottles of wine (plus humane treatment in prior years) smoothed the way.

I'd definitely recommend a free listing now in hopes of finding your buyer... There seems very little to lose and much to gain.

BashDash
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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by BashDash » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:32 am

Thank you for all for your detailed replies. Hand, your experience seems like I have nothing to lose. What avenue did you use to list on MLS for free? We are okay with doing a cosmetic cleanup/rehab. Not necessarily thinking its a good idea to start doing major rehab as the risk of not getting a return I think is high.

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hand
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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by hand » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:37 am

I didn't use the MLS - Zillow and Trulia were all it took for me in a medium market skewed towards younger buyers.

My bet is that the type of buyers willing to evaluate a property with tenants in place are likely pretty savvy about finding properties and are doing their own research on the free sites.

A couple reasons I did not list on the MLS:
1) Just plain cheap, though if you can list for $200 or so, the expense is pretty obviously worth the added exposure
2) I was listing without Realtor and assumed realtors would discourage / hide my property from their buyers
3) Some level of concern regarding days on market; if I was unable to sell and went the rehab / MLS approach, I wanted to be certain than my listing started with 0 days on market.

I'm not sure if any of my concerns were even valid, and MLS listing was something I considered doing eventually, but found my buyers before I tested the MLS waters. If selling FSBO with a turn-key property, I probably would have prioritized the MLS for better access to a different type of buyer pool.

A couple of notes if you take my approach:

1) You'll be bombarded by realtors trying to convert your listing to their listing - have a plan ahead of time (because I didn't want to disturb my tenants unreasonably, I asked if realtors had a specific buyer in mind, talked up the value, and offered a showing in tandem with actual buyers)

2) You'll get the question as to whether you'll pay buyer's realtor fee's - have preplanned answer. (I said no which was fine for my buyer pool, but turnkey buyers may be less willing to negotiate and pay their buyer's agent's fees since this is an added complication from the standard deal they are expecting. My buyer negotiated a 1% fee with their realtor, so my approach can create real value ~5% in my specific instance; I got a fair deal and buyer got a great deal.)

3) You may want to take a look through any prior realtor agreements related to the property before you list - a "standard" rental agreement proposed by a realtor early in our rental days gave the realtor unlimited rights to seller's commission if they rented the property. I'm assuming intent was specific to the renter, but wording was overly broad and appeared to apply to any subsequent sale of the property. I redlined the wording and ultimately dispensed with the realtor, but if you go the DIY route, be sure you understand any contractual obligations that exist.

4) Not everyone is the DIY type or the right personality to deal productively with buyers and the challenges that are bound to arise during a real estate transaction - be honest with yourself if you may not be the best person to deal with buyers. On the other hand, I found that having no middleman was actually easier than having to manage an extra person in the deal with their own agenda (and costs).

5) While there is more exposure / interest the lower you price, buyers often expect to negotiate - be sure to leave at least a little negotiating room in your asking price. We priced $4k over our "fair" number, and gave back $1k in negotiations in deference to buyer expectations of negotiation. I don't believe the money was important, but the negotiating process was.

6) Willingness to do a cosmetic cleanup is great, but recognize that vacant time comes at a cost and with a hassle factor... Make sure you make the best math decision.

Good Luck! I'd be interested in a follow-up, and likely others would be as well if you go this route.

BashDash
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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by BashDash » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:43 am

Thanks Hand! Will update for sure! Have a lot of work to do and thinking before I plan the next step.

chuppi
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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by chuppi » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:44 am

I thought of selling my condo without using an agent. I thought that it should be easier to sell a condo because the value of the condo is comparable to units sold in the recent past. Just know that if someone is buying it from you without a realtor, they would like to save money just like you are.

A person living in the same community somehow came to know that I was selling. He wanted the house for the same price the previous unit sold (a few months ago in winter) minus 3% commision. My unit had upgraded kitchen and flooring that he ignored. That is when I realized that it is not possible (at least for me) to sell or buy without an agent.

I sold for 3.5% commision (my agent took 1% commission and paid the buyer agent 2.5% commission). Things will fall apart while negotiating. I bought a house recently and it had minor roof problems. There was back and forth for less than 1% of the selling price and we almost lost the house because of that. Logically real estate transaction can work without agents because there is a 5-6% wiggle room but it is not easy.

BashDash
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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by BashDash » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:28 am

Just curious. Don't think we should base our sale price on this but will we have to pay any gains on our sale? We purchased for 315k and hope to sell for around 220k or so. Our principal is at 155K. So we would be leaving with money from the closing. We have not lived there in 4 years. I can't imagine getting a capital gain tax would we? This is a major loss but I'm guessing since it has not been our main residence it will be treated differently. Thanks for any insight.

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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by JimmyD » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:40 pm

Have you thought about giving some sort of incentive to your tenant if they help you sell while they are still in the lease?

I did this a couple years ago. I had a wonderful tenant who worked with me every step of the way and allowed me to show the unit while she was still under lease. She would either be at work when I scheduled a showing or would take her dog for a long walk. When the unit sold, I gave her $1,000 cash for being so cooperative and she was over the moon.

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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by 8foot7 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:54 pm

JimmyD wrote:Have you thought about giving some sort of incentive to your tenant if they help you sell while they are still in the lease?

I did this a couple years ago. I had a wonderful tenant who worked with me every step of the way and allowed me to show the unit while she was still under lease. She would either be at work when I scheduled a showing or would take her dog for a long walk. When the unit sold, I gave her $1,000 cash for being so cooperative and she was over the moon.


Before we moved into our current home we were in a rental home and once we gave notice, the landlord wanted to of course show the place to new tenants so she could have something lined up immediately and not have months of vacancy. While I would not say she was obnoxious, her requests bordered on it -- in the middle of our move with boxes and crap everywhere she asked if someone could come be shown the place with 30 minutes notice. Another time she asked for a dinnertime showing, again with just a couple of hours of notice, after I'd already begun cooking. I finally got on the horn with her and said that while I had no problem with a reasonable request to show the home, because she had been a good landlord, I was not being compensated for the extra trouble of vacating a place I paid full rent for. She never offered a rent reduction or a cash incentive; if she had I would have been much more willing to be inconvenienced, but as she did not, I declined all future requests.

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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by BashDash » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:22 pm

Interesting. We don't think its wise to show it right now with the current set up. Not that it is a mess or anything but the set up doesn't show the main features properly. For example, huge living room is being used a bedroom. I would rather this be seen empty to show the size.

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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by TheJoker » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:07 pm

I live in the state of Washington and sold my La Jolla condo (Woodlands North near UCSD and Trader Joe's) on Craig's list. No commission needed. I also used Grossmont Escrow in La Masa (formerly in Mission Valley). They were excellent. All details were performed via email and one or two phone calls.

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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by an_asker » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:17 pm

BashDash wrote:Just curious. Don't think we should base our sale price on this but will we have to pay any gains on our sale? We purchased for 315k and hope to sell for around 220k or so. Our principal is at 155K. So we would be leaving with money from the closing. We have not lived there in 4 years. I can't imagine getting a capital gain tax would we? This is a major loss but I'm guessing since it has not been our main residence it will be treated differently. Thanks for any insight.

You should be good. For you to be liable for taxes, you should have a gain to report.

Gain is calculated using the following calculation:

Cost Price = Purchase price (inclusive of closing costs*) minus depreciation
Sale Price = Sale price (minus commission you paid)

Gain = Sale Price minus Cost Price

On the other hand, if you want to claim a loss**, then

Cost Price = Fair market value of property when it was converted into a rental minus depreciation
Sale Price = Sale price (minus commission you paid)

Loss = Cost Price minus Sale Price

* specifically which costs are included I am unsure but would refer you to the Landlord guide by NoLo

** as I doubt very much that our property qualifies for a loss (and probably neither would yours), I am unsure of the loss calculation (what I wrote is based on my recollection from having read the same book without paying detailed attention to it, but I have not revisited that since I first read it)

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hand
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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by hand » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:01 pm

BashDash wrote:Just curious. Don't think we should base our sale price on this but will we have to pay any gains on our sale? We purchased for 315k and hope to sell for around 220k or so. Our principal is at 155K. So we would be leaving with money from the closing. We have not lived there in 4 years. I can't imagine getting a capital gain tax would we? This is a major loss but I'm guessing since it has not been our main residence it will be treated differently. Thanks for any insight.


It sounds like it is probably worth it for you to engage a tax professional with expertise in rental accounting...

1) Federal tax calculations will assume that you've been taking depreciation deduction (1/27.5 of rental basis) each year and reduce basis by that amount.

2) Gain or loss is dependent on the difference between basis of rental (price at which property was converted to rental) less depreciation, plus capital improvements as compared to sale price (less selling expenses)

Depending on the value when you converted to a rental and length of time you had as a rental, it is possible you had a gain.
(e.g. if you bought for $315k in 2004, converted to a rental at $250k in 2009 you could very well have ~$50k of depreciation leaving you with a basis of $200k and a taxable gain of $20k if you sell for $220k.)

This is all doable on your own, but if a one time exercise, cost of a professional is likely worth it to be sure.

an_asker
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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by an_asker » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:08 pm

hand wrote:[...]
2) Gain or loss is dependent on the difference between basis of rental (price at which property was converted to rental) less depreciation, plus capital improvements as compared to sale price (less selling expenses)

Depending on the value when you converted to a rental and length of time you had as a rental, it is possible you had a gain.
(e.g. if you bought for $315k in 2004, converted to a rental at $250k in 2009 you could very well have ~$50k of depreciation leaving you with a basis of $200k and a taxable gain of $20k if you sell for $220k.)
[...]

That is incorrect. Please refer to my response above. The cost basis is different for the gain vs. loss calculations.

letsgobobby
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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by letsgobobby » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:11 pm

We are in a hot seller's market, and one tactic which may help is to update your listing on Zillow, trulia, and other public sites to say that it is 'coming soon.' You should be able to post exterior photos and maybe some interior ones as well. Psychologically this builds excitement and anticipation, and may contribute to a scarcity effect among potential buyers. When you finally do make the unit available, you should have a lot of visitors from Day 1, who will then compete with each other to make a fast and aggressive offer.

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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by BashDash » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:31 am

I like that "coming soon" idea. A previous poster mentioned that we may want to list it closer to when they are out because we would want to keep the "days on market" low. Is it possible to list as "coming soon" without having it actually accrue "days on market"?

Also, has anyone ever set up a contract with a realtor with the agreement that if we sold it via word of mouth to friends/family/coworker or to a neighbor that we would not pay a commission. Obviously, if the realtor sold it then the commission would be paid?


Thanks BH's!

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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by JGoneRiding » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:53 pm

While you won't have capital gains you will have recapture taxes for depreciation

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celia
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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by celia » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:47 pm

I think it depends on the state you live in. I used ForSaleByOwner.com/their agents for selling a relative's condo. For a $300,000 purchase price 10 years ago, it cost me $3,000 which was well worth it. They do everything but the cleaning and open houses. That is the most time-consuming part. They help see if prospective buyers are qualified to buy and interact with any buyer's agents so you don't have to, and they advise you of the laws.

In California, there are all kinds of disclosures that are required and since it is easy to mess up if you don't do it correctly, you could have a lawsuit on your hands. There are required termite/wood rot inspections, notices if you are aware if anyone has ever died in the unit, distance to toxic properties you don't even know about, distance to sources of noise (freeway, airports, schools, etc). Just having someone on my side to guide me was worth it for something I rarely do (and the laws keep changing).

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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by BashDash » Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:55 pm

Update:

1) Was thinking of making a "coming soon" craiglist ad.

2) scheduling an appointment with a recommended agent. Will inquire about a possible contract that will involve us being able to have a short-term ( 2 week or so ) period right after tenants are out where we can try and sell the condo on our own at the same time as her. If she brings us buyers then she gets the commission. If we happen to find a neighbor/friend/family/coworker then we shouldn't have to pay the commission. Maybe we can do one or two open houses and get lucky to find a realtor. Once the 2 weeks is up just hand over the responsibility fully to the realtor.

3) Considering giving the tenant the right to break the lease in June instead of August which would maybe be a better prime time for realtor at the beginning of the summer as opposed to the end.


Any comments? Thanks again BH's!!

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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:57 pm

BashDash wrote:Also, has anyone ever set up a contract with a realtor with the agreement that if we sold it via word of mouth to friends/family/coworker or to a neighbor that we would not pay a commission. Obviously, if the realtor sold it then the commission would be paid?


It was on the other end, but when the sellers were about to put our house up for sale, we learned about it (he worked in my group) and set up a visit. He went ahead and listed it but because we showed initial interest, he had us listed specifically so that if we bought, he would pay no commission. We took full advantage of this and bought at a very rock bottom price.

If an agent had been involved, we would have probably paid close to 10% more.
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Cobra Commander
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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by Cobra Commander » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:25 pm

You'll have the widest possible market if you put your house up for sale during the summer since many people with kids don't want to move during the school year so if you can get your tenants out sooner then yes, that's better.

I can only speak for the way I browse for houses and I wasn't looking for them on Craigslist. It was easier for me to zoom into Redfin enough to cover my desired area with price point filters, etc. and set that as a favorite and look on Thurs/Fri when houses came on the market. My particular market is a hotter market where houses are typically listed on Thurs/Fri, open house Sunday and under contract by Tues/Wed the next week.

Just keep in mind the carrying cost of the house. One or two extra months of carrying the mortgage and that's a sizable expense relative to just paying some level of reduced commission to a discount broker and being done with it.

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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by BashDash » Tue May 09, 2017 8:27 am

Update:
We met with a realtor we like. Commission is not really a discount ( 5% ) but we feel it may be worth it. CobraCommander's comment regarding the cost of carrying the condo without tenants is really weighing on our mind. Maybe we could do it ourselves or get a discount broker but each month going by without a tenant is losing us 2K so why not just price it appropriately and try and get a quick sale. That's our thoughts anyway. Realtor was also concerned about late August/early September list date as the "buying" season is a little less consistent once the summer is over.

Thanks for everyone's replies. This is a challenging lesson we are learning but I'm sure it could be worse. With the principal at around 155k and a possible sale price in the 190K's at least we will leave the closing with some money. Time to move on.

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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by Pajamas » Tue May 09, 2017 9:48 am

chuppi wrote:
A person living in the same community somehow came to know that I was selling. He wanted the house for the same price the previous unit sold (a few months ago in winter) minus 3% commision. My unit had upgraded kitchen and flooring that he ignored.


I have been looking at houses and apartments online recently and don't like the finishes in 95%+ of the recently-renovated kitchens and bathrooms. The ones that were redone cheaply for the sale or to flip are the worst, except for the ones where the resident-owners spent a lot of money tearing out walls between the kitchen and living areas and indulging their unique and unusual taste in color and decor. So I have been fairly indifferent between an apartment that has already been renovated and a similar one (sometimes in the same building) that needs renovation. I would almost certainly not want to pay an extra dollar for your renovated kitchen and probably not for your new flooring. That would not be true for a landlord looking to buy a rental property.

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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by BashDash » Tue May 09, 2017 9:54 am

Pajamas, Good point. We won't be putting one more cent into this condo other than maybe a small paint project for a bathroom. Certainly a little nervous about spending more money and the condo being vacant for a few months; almost making us rethinking selling it. Worst case scenario we get another renter in there or just sell it for a price WAY below what we want just to get rid of it and start out fresh and move on with our life.

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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by Balefire » Tue May 09, 2017 2:34 pm

Tried FSBO for 3 months in 2013.
Used all the regular FSBO avenues.
Only two showings.

Then used a discount broker.
4.5%
Like 20 showings.
House sold in 1 week.

Wise choice using a broker

BashDash
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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by BashDash » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:28 pm

OP here;
Update: tenants out. Paid professional cleaners relatively cheap amount. Checked with some neighbors to see if interested. Not looking good.

Going to go with a broker. With 2 small kids on the house and each month going by a loss of 2k I think it is the smart move. Contemplating getting walls painted but don't even want to sink in money for that. Did get some Craigslist gig quotes of 300-800 range to paint entire condo. 300 seemed kind of cheap. Is it worth it to pay to get painted?

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Pajamas
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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by Pajamas » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:46 pm

Probably, if the walls are visibly dirty or some color other than white or off-white.

I would be leery of a very low bid for painting without at least some further discussion of why it is so low. Sounds cheap rather than inexpensive.

BashDash
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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by BashDash » Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:05 pm

Just painted it myself. If I was smart I would have put an open house sign while I was over there all Sunday.

Is it worth making a Craigslist ad? We are signing with a broker on Wed?

mouses
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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by mouses » Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:37 pm

8foot7 wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:54 pm
While I would not say she was obnoxious, her requests bordered on it -- in the middle of our move with boxes and crap everywhere she asked if someone could come be shown the place with 30 minutes notice. Another time she asked for a dinnertime showing, again with just a couple of hours of notice, after I'd already begun cooking. I finally got on the horn with her and said that while I had no problem with a reasonable request to show the home, because she had been a good landlord, I was not being compensated for the extra trouble of vacating a place I paid full rent for. She never offered a rent reduction or a cash incentive; if she had I would have been much more willing to be inconvenienced, but as she did not, I declined all future requests.
Do the landlord have the legal right to show the property while a tenant is legally in place? I always assumed they did.

Why should the tenant care if there are boxes everywhere or if dinner in progress. It's not like there's an incentive for you to tidy up for prospective new tenants or prospective buyers when the landlord is a piece of work.

JGoneRiding
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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by JGoneRiding » Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:21 pm

mouses wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:37 pm
8foot7 wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:54 pm
While I would not say she was obnoxious, her requests bordered on it -- in the middle of our move with boxes and crap everywhere she asked if someone could come be shown the place with 30 minutes notice. Another time she asked for a dinnertime showing, again with just a couple of hours of notice, after I'd already begun cooking. I finally got on the horn with her and said that while I had no problem with a reasonable request to show the home, because she had been a good landlord, I was not being compensated for the extra trouble of vacating a place I paid full rent for. She never offered a rent reduction or a cash incentive; if she had I would have been much more willing to be inconvenienced, but as she did not, I declined all future requests.
Do the landlord have the legal right to show the property while a tenant is legally in place? I always assumed they did.

Why should the tenant care if there are boxes everywhere or if dinner in progress. It's not like there's an incentive for you to tidy up for prospective new tenants or prospective buyers when the landlord is a piece of work.
Yes but they are legally required in most states to give 24 hour notice and 48 hour in other states. Also some states and locals limit it to "regular business hours" or hours agreed to by renter (since those hours would be bad for some renters the renter can agree to other hours but not necessarily refuse those hours) so a renter does have the right to refuse showing if the LL isn't following rules or at least attempting to accommodate the renter

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8foot7
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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by 8foot7 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:04 am

mouses wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:37 pm
8foot7 wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:54 pm
While I would not say she was obnoxious, her requests bordered on it -- in the middle of our move with boxes and crap everywhere she asked if someone could come be shown the place with 30 minutes notice. Another time she asked for a dinnertime showing, again with just a couple of hours of notice, after I'd already begun cooking. I finally got on the horn with her and said that while I had no problem with a reasonable request to show the home, because she had been a good landlord, I was not being compensated for the extra trouble of vacating a place I paid full rent for. She never offered a rent reduction or a cash incentive; if she had I would have been much more willing to be inconvenienced, but as she did not, I declined all future requests.
Do the landlord have the legal right to show the property while a tenant is legally in place? I always assumed they did.

Why should the tenant care if there are boxes everywhere or if dinner in progress. It's not like there's an incentive for you to tidy up for prospective new tenants or prospective buyers when the landlord is a piece of work.
There is no statute in my state about whether or not the LL has the right to show, needs to give notice, etc. Our lease said:
"10. Right of Entry: Landlord hereby reserves the right to enter the Premises during reasonable hours for the purpose of (1)
inspecting the Premises and the Tenant's compliance with the terms of this lease; (2) making such repairs, alterations, improvements
or additions thereto as the Landlord may deem appropriate; and (3) showing the Premises to prospective purchasers or tenants.
Landlord shall also have the right to display “For Sale” or “For Rent” signs in a reasonable manner upon the Premises."

I work at home so my reasonable hours may be different than others'. I thought 48 hours notice for a showing was reasonable given I was still expected to pay full rent. I even at the time brought up that if she was willing to offer a rent reduction we could agree to have the place clean and vacate at shorter notices. She declined. I'm not sure why my expectation of quiet enjoyment at full rent is trumped by her inability to organize showings at a future date. Given I was in the last month of the lease anyway, I thought declining further showings was a fairly solid position. When I'm vacating on March 14, and it's March 8, are you really going to evict me because I'm not agreeing to short notice showings?

As for why I care if there are boxes everywhere, that's my entire life and all of my possessions out and freely accessible for someone to snag. I didn't want strangers in the place, especially when things were already disjointed and I couldn't quickly tell if anything was gone. Additionally, I figured I'd hear something about the condition of the place from the LL if the showings had indeed come through--"next time could you clear xyz," etc., so I wanted to make it crystal clear what the condition of the place was.

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Cobra Commander
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Re: Accidental landlord turning to for sale by owner

Post by Cobra Commander » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:52 am

BashDash wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:05 pm
Just painted it myself. If I was smart I would have put an open house sign while I was over there all Sunday.

Is it worth making a Craigslist ad? We are signing with a broker on Wed?
I don't know what market you're in but generally I think making a Craigslist ad for a house is a waste of time. Honestly, who looks for a house to buy on CL? I don't know anyone that has done that. Everyone uses Redfin (best searching site out there) or realtor.com if Redfin doesn't service your area or worst case Zillow which has delayed listings. If you're big into the social media thing you may want to consider posting it on Facebook if you have a lot of friends in the area. They might know someone looking for a house and mention your house to them.

I would focus your attention on making sure your realtor uses high quality photos and narrative (i.e. no typos and highlights the important features of the house within the character limitations of the MLS system).

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