Do you have an umbrella policy?

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
marcopolo
Posts: 771
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:22 am

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by marcopolo » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:30 am

BogleFanGal wrote:Wish I could get some of these low umbrella rates other people are paying...mine is $330 for only 1m and I called around - that was the cheapest and includes the discount from home/auto with same carrier. Tried to get 2m and it MORE than doubled. :shock:

Unfortunately I'm in a HCOL area, one of the highest-cost insurance areas in U.S. for both auto and home AND a highly-litigious state - triple whammy. :annoyed But I keep telling myself it's still a smart move and reasonably priced policy to keep, given the scary alternative. Luckily our state excludes retirement and home from legal judgments, so that's something, I guess.

I had the same thought. Many (most?) of the stated rates seems WAY lower than what i am paying. I pay about $900 for $2M policy.
I was paying about $200 for $1M policy, then i went to $2M and added a teen driver at the same time. Not sure which had the bigger impact.

Anyone out there getting lower rates with teen drivers? If so, what company?
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

Gadget
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:38 pm

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by Gadget » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:55 am

I'm paying 355/yr for 2 million from state Farm. Just got the policy. Kids are both under 3. I assume my rate goes way up when they can drive. We have no previous accidents on our record though.

User avatar
gunn_show
Posts: 1411
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:02 pm

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by gunn_show » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:24 am

marcopolo wrote: I had the same thought. Many (most?) of the stated rates seems WAY lower than what i am paying. I pay about $900 for $2M policy.
I was paying about $200 for $1M policy, then i went to $2M and added a teen driver at the same time. Not sure which had the bigger impact.

Anyone out there getting lower rates with teen drivers? If so, what company?
Rates are not surprising - it's all about increased risk factors. Living in SF is added risk factor. Driving 100k cars are higher risk factors. Having a $5mil Miami mansion ripe for wining and dining guests frequently, and thus higher liability of slip/fall lawsuits on property, is a higher risk factor. Adding (historically horrible driving) teenage drivers to your policies is a huge increased risk factor. Who is more likely to get into a high-risk accident speeding down the road while texting - you or your teen? I'm sure your auto policy is also far more expensive, as it should be. Just the way it is. If nothing else changed, then going from $1m to $2m should be less than double. But adding a teen is a different ballgame.
"I love competition. And I want to win." R. Murdoch

michaeljc70
Posts: 2865
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:53 pm

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by michaeljc70 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:47 am

gunn_show wrote:
marcopolo wrote: I had the same thought. Many (most?) of the stated rates seems WAY lower than what i am paying. I pay about $900 for $2M policy.
I was paying about $200 for $1M policy, then i went to $2M and added a teen driver at the same time. Not sure which had the bigger impact.

Anyone out there getting lower rates with teen drivers? If so, what company?
Rates are not surprising - it's all about increased risk factors. Living in SF is added risk factor. Driving 100k cars are higher risk factors. Having a $5mil Miami mansion ripe for wining and dining guests frequently, and thus higher liability of slip/fall lawsuits on property, is a higher risk factor. Adding (historically horrible driving) teenage drivers to your policies is a huge increased risk factor. Who is more likely to get into a high-risk accident speeding down the road while texting - you or your teen? I'm sure your auto policy is also far more expensive, as it should be. Just the way it is. If nothing else changed, then going from $1m to $2m should be less than double. But adding a teen is a different ballgame.
Sure, but it would seem to make sense to be compare as a percentage on top of your existing policies. Those existing policies already take into account all those risk factors.
Last edited by michaeljc70 on Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

random_walker_77
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:49 pm

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by random_walker_77 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:48 am

boglerdude wrote:
deltaneutral83 wrote:So what happens in an unfortunate auto situation where you are at fault and the other car had 4 "high earners." They'd blow right through 10 million?
Option 1: Lawyer settles, collects your 1MM umbrella and underlying auto limit, and takes his ~33% contingency fee. $400k for a few days work.

Option 2: He sets aside $30k of his, to cover the costs of trial. It could be a year+ of litigation, and he needs the jury to award more than your insurance limits + his fees. And that you have enough assets.

Meanwhile you explain to the jury that many people choose to retire early, so there's no way to know how much those folks would earn over a lifetime. And you present your dash cam footage, showing that you were not texting, as an eye witness claimed.

If the jury awards more than your insurance, you go bankrupt and maybe keep retirement accounts and some home equity, depending on state.

Not a lawyer, so anyone please add to or correct.
Also not a lawyer. According to this, an auto suit averages 43K, and at the 75 percentile, costs 110K (per side!). And after 2 years of this torturous process, unless things are looking super rosy, the plaintiff's lawyer is probably going to be telling their client to settle and take the sure thing.
http://www.courtstatistics.org/~/media/ ... line2.ashx

Also, having the misfortune to be drafted into a jury for a week long civil trial, I was shocked to be instructed that the plaintiff only needs to convince the jury that it's more likely than not (>= 51% odds) in order to win their case. Preponderance of the evidence. Not 90% sure, not 80% sure, just 51%. The poor defendant won what seemed to most of us to be a frivolous suit, but even so, two jurors were favorable to the plaintiff's case. Afterwards, the judge said that meant it wasn't a frivolous suit. Shortly thereafter, I doubled my umbrella policy to 2M.
Last edited by random_walker_77 on Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
randomizer
Posts: 1288
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:46 pm

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by randomizer » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:51 am

Nope. I am loathe to give money to an insurance company. Home insurance is all I willingly pay for. I get health and life through employer. When this job ends I will lose both: I'll probably get health but not life.

Disclaimer: please don't run me.
75:25

Slacker
Posts: 558
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by Slacker » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:06 am

BogleFanGal wrote:Wish I could get some of these low umbrella rates other people are paying...mine is $330 for only 1m and I called around - that was the cheapest and includes the discount from home/auto with same carrier. Tried to get 2m and it MORE than doubled. :shock:

Unfortunately I'm in a HCOL area, one of the highest-cost insurance areas in U.S. for both auto and home AND a highly-litigious state - triple whammy. :annoyed But I keep telling myself it's still a smart move and reasonably priced policy to keep, given the scary alternative. Luckily our state excludes retirement and home from legal judgments, so that's something, I guess.
Many factors go into the costs. I think our factors are very low risk (no teenage drivers, no power boat / watercraft, no airplanes) even though we do have a rental property.

We pay $135/yr for $1M of Umbrella coverage through Amica (just recently switched as we were paying around $145 with USAA).

Slacker
Posts: 558
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by Slacker » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:09 am

Gadget wrote:I'm paying 355/yr for 2 million from state Farm. Just got the policy. Kids are both under 3. I assume my rate goes way up when they can drive. We have no previous accidents on our record though.
I think having the young kids also increases the cost slightly, because you are more likely to have friends bringing young kids over to your house - having a large dog or a pool in that situation probably results in a good jump in yearly fees.

scottwood2
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by scottwood2 » Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:32 am

Thx to this post for the reminder. I have thought about getting this for some time now. Just sent email to my agent to get the process started. I have a few questions on this topic:

- Should the amount you insure for be tied to the total assets you have?
- Are there companies that specialize in this type of insurance? Sound like most just went with their home/auto insurance company.

Thx

User avatar
queso
Posts: 515
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by queso » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:01 pm

scottwood2 wrote:Thx to this post for the reminder. I have thought about getting this for some time now. Just sent email to my agent to get the process started. I have a few questions on this topic:

- Should the amount you insure for be tied to the total assets you have?
- Are there companies that specialize in this type of insurance? Sound like most just went with their home/auto insurance company.

Thx
IMHO, not directly tied, but they should be correlated. If you are worth 50k then I see no point in a $3MM umbrella policy. They will be happy to get whatever settlement they can out of your $1MM or lower policy and won't bother risking litigation to go after personal assets. If you are worth $3MM+ then I think you can make a strong case to get $3-5MM of umbrella coverage because it becomes a much more attractive proposition to not accept a settlement from the $1MM or lower policy and come after personal assets. I also suspect that the insurance company hates to lose money so with the higher dollar policies I hope they are more likely to assign you their top legal folks should you end up in a situation that could end up in a big payout. Hopefully that also works to reduce the likelihood of the other side deciding to roll the dice and skip the settlement.

User avatar
BogleFanGal
Posts: 161
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:59 pm

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by BogleFanGal » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:41 pm

Rates are not surprising - it's all about increased risk factors. Living in SF is added risk factor. Driving 100k cars are higher risk factors. Having a $5mil Miami mansion ripe for wining and dining guests frequently, and thus higher liability of slip/fall lawsuits on property, is a higher risk factor. Adding (historically horrible driving) teenage drivers to your policies is a huge increased risk factor. Who is more likely to get into a high-risk accident speeding down the road while texting - you or your teen? I'm sure your auto policy is also far more expensive, as it should be. Just the way it is. If nothing else changed, then going from $1m to $2m should be less than double. But adding a teen is a different ballgame.

Well - my husband and I have a spotless driving record, own a small starter house in a suburban neighborhood, have no kids, no pool, no other issues whatsoever and drive two older cheap cars. Yet pay 329 for 1m and was quoted 700+ for 2m. Unfortunately there are a LOT of folks like you described above - and we are penalized for their higher liability. My agent said we're among the highest lawsuit and fraud-related areas in the nation.
Last edited by BogleFanGal on Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Alskar
Posts: 643
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:52 pm
Location: Oregon

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by Alskar » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:51 pm

White Coat Investor wrote:The good news is that if you're a good little boglehead and have been maxing out your retirement accounts, then even if you are successfully sued for $500 Million, in most states you get to at least keep your retirement accounts!
I think that's only true for 401k or 403b accounts, not for rollover IRA's. This is one of the reasons people cite for keeping your money in a 401k instead of rolling it over.

If I'm wrong, I'm sure about a dozen people will correct me. :D
Lagom är bäst

User avatar
JoMoney
Posts: 5145
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:31 am

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by JoMoney » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:52 pm

Alskar wrote:
White Coat Investor wrote:The good news is that if you're a good little boglehead and have been maxing out your retirement accounts, then even if you are successfully sued for $500 Million, in most states you get to at least keep your retirement accounts!
I think that's only true for 401k or 403b accounts, not for rollover IRA's. This is one of the reasons people cite for keeping your money in a 401k instead of rolling it over.

If I'm wrong, I'm sure about a dozen people will correct me. :D
Outside of bankruptcy, it's up to state, most states do... some are more clear and absolute regarding it, here's a state by state rundown citing relevent statute in each state:
http://moranknobel.com/news/State_Laws_ ... g_IRAs.pdf

If you file bankruptcy there are federal laws that kick in and exempt an amount that's somewhere around $1,283,025 (it's inflation indexed to a million dolars several years back). That amount can be over and above the amount rolled over from a 401k, but it's very important to be able to show what amounts are from a 401k rollover (that may maintain the ERISA exemption) and the amounts that are from traditional IRA contributions (some suggest to keep the money in seperate IRAs and not commingle them if this is at all a concern)
http://www.thebankruptcysite.org/resour ... ruptcy.htm


Also of note, is there are attempts to change/update the exemptions in some states (like California SB 308)
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/face ... 20160SB308 ... (passed by California assembly but can't get through the state Senate)
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham

boglebrain
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:55 am

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by boglebrain » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:04 pm

We have one and pay $2200 for a $10M policy.

I actually just researched this and found another firm offering it at $750!!! And they only require home and not auto...their auto is much much more than my current insurance.

I've seen advice that you need to have umbrella in excess of your assets. However the prices go up very steeply above $10M...like $3k for $15M and $6k for $20M. This may sound absurd to most but if you live in a HCOL area and do have a car accident with 4 neurosurgeons and you include all assets and future wages judgements above $10M could happen. Are there others here who have or would want to go above typical maximum of $10M you can get from most mainstream insurance companies. I guess the question is if judgements above $10M do happen and at what rate. Any thoughts or advice?

User avatar
JoMoney
Posts: 5145
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:31 am

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by JoMoney » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:18 pm

boglebrain wrote:We have one and pay $2200 for a $10M policy.

I actually just researched this and found another firm offering it at $750!!! And they only require home and not auto...their auto is much much more than my current insurance.

I've seen advice that you need to have umbrella in excess of your assets. However the prices go up very steeply above $10M...like $3k for $15M and $6k for $20M. This may sound absurd to most but if you live in a HCOL area and do have a car accident with 4 neurosurgeons and you include all assets and future wages judgements above $10M could happen. Are there others here who have or would want to go above typical maximum of $10M you can get from most mainstream insurance companies. I guess the question is if judgements above $10M do happen and at what rate. Any thoughts or advice?
Big judgements happen, (here's an attorney promoting some of his big judgement win, one was for $100,000,000 from a pit bull attack http://callsam.com/verdicts-and-settlements/ ) ... but this is way down the list of things people lose money over. Medical Bills (even for people that have insurance) seem to be the number one reason people file for bankruptcy.
I think the idea of having an umbrella policy, is to have it big enough so the insurance company has a vested reason to provide you a very very good legal defense. Beyond that though, you can't insure against everything. If you're concerned about liability law suits, you need to be talking to an asset protection attorney and planning before something happens.
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham

User avatar
White Coat Investor
Posts: 13311
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:11 pm
Location: Greatest Snow On Earth

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by White Coat Investor » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:31 pm

I was on the phone with USAA yesterday. My umbrella is $315 a year for $2M. $3M would be $420 and $5M would be $620.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course

User avatar
CardinalRule
Posts: 110
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:01 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by CardinalRule » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:18 pm

Got our upgrade quotes (State Farm) yesterday.

$250 for $2 million and $500 for $5 million.

User avatar
Earl Lemongrab
Posts: 4538
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:14 am

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:56 am

JoMoney wrote:Big judgements happen, (here's an attorney promoting some of his big judgement win, one was for $100,000,000 from a pit bull attack
Note that it says "Default Judgment". That means the defendant didn't show up and probably can't be found or has no money. Most large judgments immediately go to appeals and either get knocked down or settled at a more reasonable level.
This week's fortune cookie: "Your financial life will be secure and beneficial." So I got that going for me, which is nice.

jimmyrules712
Posts: 471
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:36 pm

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by jimmyrules712 » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:13 pm

I recently signed up for a $1 million umbrella policy for the first time and actually saved money overall doing it by lowering my auto and home liability coverage to the minimum required for the umbrella to kick in (they were above that minimum before) and raising the deductibles a bit.

I'm in my early 30's and just starting to build up assets. I'll probably increase it to $2-3 million in a few years.

dave_k
Posts: 218
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 8:25 pm

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by dave_k » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:06 pm

ResearchMed wrote:
gasdoc wrote:
dave_k wrote:Recently increased our umbrella from $1M to $2M, cost went from about $200/y to $300/y. Have 3 cars, a boat, and 2 houses, one of which is a vacation rental.
We went up to $5M on the umbrella when we purchased and started renting out our future retirement home, and at the same time had a teenager start driving.

gas
Did you double check that you don't need a separate umbrella policy for the rental?
Some "personal home" policies won't cover that.

RM
Thank you for ResearchMed for suggesting that I double check!

When we bought the second house a few years ago I had verified with the insurance agent that it would be covered by the umbrella as a rental. I checked again (having forgotten I had done that, and just found the email thread while looking into it afterwards), and it turns out that it's not covered because it's a short term (vacation) rental, but the original agent hadn't made any distinction. I'll have to get a "premises only" umbrella policy from another company just for that property because State Farm won't do it at all, and excludes it from our main umbrella policy while covering everything else. It will cost about another $300/y for $2M, but it's worth it because that's one of our most likely sources of liability, and will be a write-off against the income from the property.

I suppose I should shop around for a single $2M umbrella policy that will cover everything including short term rentals, to see if that's cheaper overall, but the most important thing is to get something in place now for the rental.

lazylarry
Posts: 418
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:35 pm
Contact:

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by lazylarry » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:12 pm

What are things we should look for in an umbrella coverage policies? Or are they generally the same in terms of what they cover? And the best (cheapest) way to get one is just to call around to different insurance agencies (I've heard folks having it through Geico, State Farm, etc)?
My profile: https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=86026 | Virtua lBogleheads® Blog: https://virtualbogleheads.wordpress.com/

MikeG62
Posts: 784
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:20 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by MikeG62 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:50 am

BogleFanGal wrote:Wish I could get some of these low umbrella rates other people are paying...mine is $330 for only 1m and I called around - that was the cheapest and includes the discount from home/auto with same carrier. Tried to get 2m and it MORE than doubled. :shock:

Unfortunately I'm in a HCOL area, one of the highest-cost insurance areas in U.S. for both auto and home AND a highly-litigious state - triple whammy. :annoyed But I keep telling myself it's still a smart move and reasonably priced policy to keep, given the scary alternative. Luckily our state excludes retirement and home from legal judgments, so that's something, I guess.
Me too.

I'm paying almost $1,200 for $5 million. Wife and I are early/mid 50's with one adult daughter (21) on our auto policy and a second adult daughter (23) living at home, but with own auto insurance. Own one home, four cars, inground pool, but no motorcycles or boats or anything like that. I'd say very straightforward. Live in NJ.

So I called AAA (as they were referenced here several times as being a lot lower than what I am paying). They did come back lower - $885 for $5 million. Insurer would be Stillwater. Never heard of Stillwater. Did a quick check of AM Best which shows Stillwater, although A- rated, is a small insurer (financial assets of $100M-$250M). By comparison my current insurer is CNA (Continental Casualty Company) and is A rated with financial assets exceeding $2 billion (public company with market cap of $12 billion). CNA is also the insurer my former employer used for D&O insurance. Surely Board members not interested in taking risks. So if CNA is good enough for them, I am loathe to change unless insurer of similar size and rating.

I then contacted NJ Manufacturers (where I have my home and auto's). They came back at $1,350 for $5 million. So more than I am paying.

Seems I cannot get down to $500-$600 as others on the forum are paying.

sharpjm
Posts: 657
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:41 pm

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by sharpjm » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:13 pm

Thanks for the reminder. Just signed up for one through Progressive yesterday after reading this post. I had inquired a few months ago after an uncle recommended but I never followed through. $175/yr for $1M no kids, no house, 1 vehicle.

User avatar
flamesabers
Posts: 1719
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:05 pm
Location: Rochester, MN

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by flamesabers » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:24 pm

sharpjm wrote:Thanks for the reminder. Just signed up for one through Progressive yesterday after reading this post. I had inquired a few months ago after an uncle recommended but I never followed through. $175/yr for $1M no kids, no house, 1 vehicle.
I've also been thinking about getting an umbrella policy after reading through this thread. I ran some quotes with USAA: $102 for $1 million and about $160 for $2 million coverage.

inbox788
Posts: 5154
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:24 pm

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by inbox788 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:17 pm

A while back, I got some quotes, but they varied widely the information requested as well as the pricing. Some about $100/$1M and some 3 times the cost so I didn't sign up at the time. I even recall an argument with a rep about why I was inquiring about higher coverage amounts. Was very strange to me, and I assume they weren't used to selling umbrella policies or were just badly trained.

Anyway, after neglecting it for too long, I was offered a group policy through work that was price competitive. I don't know the differences from an individual policy, but figured it was inexpensive enough and better than nothing. It's on my long procrastination list to review the policy and get come competitive quotes, but that's for another time.

mouses
Posts: 3300
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:24 am

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by mouses » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:42 pm

$5 mil. I'm retired, so a substantial loss would be a disaster. $1 mil doesn't go very far these days if someone has major medical bills. Even $5 million is not enough if someone needs major medical care for the rest of their lives, but there is some reasonable compromise.

random_walker_77
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:49 pm

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by random_walker_77 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:38 pm

MikeG62 wrote:
BogleFanGal wrote:Wish I could get some of these low umbrella rates other people are paying...mine is $330 for only 1m and I called around - that was the cheapest and includes the discount from home/auto with same carrier. Tried to get 2m and it MORE than doubled. :shock:

Unfortunately I'm in a HCOL area, one of the highest-cost insurance areas in U.S. for both auto and home AND a highly-litigious state - triple whammy. :annoyed But I keep telling myself it's still a smart move and reasonably priced policy to keep, given the scary alternative. Luckily our state excludes retirement and home from legal judgments, so that's something, I guess.
Me too.

I'm paying almost $1,200 for $5 million. Wife and I are early/mid 50's with one adult daughter (21) on our auto policy and a second adult daughter (23) living at home, but with own auto insurance. Own one home, four cars, inground pool, but no motorcycles or boats or anything like that. I'd say very straightforward. Live in NJ.

So I called AAA (as they were referenced here several times as being a lot lower than what I am paying). They did come back lower - $885 for $5 million. Insurer would be Stillwater. Never heard of Stillwater. Did a quick check of AM Best which shows Stillwater, although A- rated, is a small insurer (financial assets of $100M-$250M). By comparison my current insurer is CNA (Continental Casualty Company) and is A rated with financial assets exceeding $2 billion (public company with market cap of $12 billion). CNA is also the insurer my former employer used for D&O insurance. Surely Board members not interested in taking risks. So if CNA is good enough for them, I am loathe to change unless insurer of similar size and rating.

I then contacted NJ Manufacturers (where I have my home and auto's). They came back at $1,350 for $5 million. So more than I am paying.

Seems I cannot get down to $500-$600 as others on the forum are paying.
Well, some of that is probably the HCOL, but you've also got 4 vehicles, 3 drivers, and a pool. I'm pretty sure that each of those items pushes it up a little more. That, plus you're among the small minority that wants 5M, and not just 1 or 2M. At some point, they start to worry that the fact that people are willing to pay extra for the really big policies implies more risk, and for them, more risk means they demand more compensation.

jsimon1
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:29 pm

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by jsimon1 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:26 pm

MikeG62 wrote:
BogleFanGal wrote:Wish I could get some of these low umbrella rates other people are paying...mine is $330 for only 1m and I called around - that was the cheapest and includes the discount from home/auto with same carrier. Tried to get 2m and it MORE than doubled. :shock:

Unfortunately I'm in a HCOL area, one of the highest-cost insurance areas in U.S. for both auto and home AND a highly-litigious state - triple whammy. :annoyed But I keep telling myself it's still a smart move and reasonably priced policy to keep, given the scary alternative. Luckily our state excludes retirement and home from legal judgments, so that's something, I guess.
Me too.

I'm paying almost $1,200 for $5 million. Wife and I are early/mid 50's with one adult daughter (21) on our auto policy and a second adult daughter (23) living at home, but with own auto insurance. Own one home, four cars, inground pool, but no motorcycles or boats or anything like that. I'd say very straightforward. Live in NJ.

So I called AAA (as they were referenced here several times as being a lot lower than what I am paying). They did come back lower - $885 for $5 million. Insurer would be Stillwater. Never heard of Stillwater. Did a quick check of AM Best which shows Stillwater, although A- rated, is a small insurer (financial assets of $100M-$250M). By comparison my current insurer is CNA (Continental Casualty Company) and is A rated with financial assets exceeding $2 billion (public company with market cap of $12 billion). CNA is also the insurer my former employer used for D&O insurance. Surely Board members not interested in taking risks. So if CNA is good enough for them, I am loathe to change unless insurer of similar size and rating.

I then contacted NJ Manufacturers (where I have my home and auto's). They came back at $1,350 for $5 million. So more than I am paying.

Seems I cannot get down to $500-$600 as others on the forum are paying.
Try Amica, their umbrella's are typically inexpensive (if you call them quote your homeowners policy with a $1M liability limit, this will lower your umbrella quote significantly). Also, in NJ Geico is EXTREMELY competitive (on the auto and umbrella side, not on the home side).

User avatar
Alskar
Posts: 643
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:52 pm
Location: Oregon

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by Alskar » Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:13 pm

JoMoney wrote:Outside of bankruptcy, it's up to state, most states do... some are more clear and absolute regarding it, here's a state by state rundown citing relevent statute in each state:
http://moranknobel.com/news/State_Laws_ ... g_IRAs.pdf
Thanks for the information. It's interesting (to me anyway) that Nevada exempts traditonal IRA's but not Roth IRA's from bankruptcy proceedings.

In any case, it appears that once again White Coat Investor was absolutely correct.
Lagom är bäst

Brost2355
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:20 am

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by Brost2355 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:55 pm

New Jersey
Travelers Insurance - Auto (500k limits) and Homeowners. 2 Cars, no pool or kids

We have 2 Million Umbrella $331 a year (1 million would have been $189 a year)

Kidneydoc
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 9:54 am

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by Kidneydoc » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:47 am

Umbrella insurance $3M for $620 annually with GEICO. Thinking of upping coverage to $4M next year as assets growing. I am thinking of getting another insurance quote for home/auto/umbrella with Chubb given their reputation for paying out claims.

User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 7308
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:35 am

Kidneydoc wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:47 am
Umbrella insurance $3M for $620 annually with GEICO. Thinking of upping coverage to $4M next year as assets growing. I am thinking of getting another insurance quote for home/auto/umbrella with Chubb given their reputation for paying out claims.
We have used Chubb for years for auto, homeowner, and umbrella. Their premiums are very high, and that's a bummer, but filing a claim is smooth and there isn't the adversarial assumption that you're probably trying to commit insurance fraud.

The quote from Chubb is unlikely to be competitive with GEICO. But, pay now or (possibly) pay later.

Grt2bOutdoors
Posts: 18464
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:20 pm
Location: New York

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:59 pm

TomatoTomahto wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:35 am
Kidneydoc wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:47 am
Umbrella insurance $3M for $620 annually with GEICO. Thinking of upping coverage to $4M next year as assets growing. I am thinking of getting another insurance quote for home/auto/umbrella with Chubb given their reputation for paying out claims.
We have used Chubb for years for auto, homeowner, and umbrella. Their premiums are very high, and that's a bummer, but filing a claim is smooth and there isn't the adversarial assumption that you're probably trying to commit insurance fraud.

The quote from Chubb is unlikely to be competitive with GEICO. But, pay now or (possibly) pay later.
I use GEICO for auto and umbrella (they aren't competitive on home at all), have never felt they were adversarial when I did place a claim on auto. Chubb was recently acquired so we'll see if their famed reputation continues. Chubb is known for insuring high net worth individuals and assets that are not uncommon - like art collections, etc. Replacing items like that costs more than the art I can pick up in just any store.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 7308
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:04 pm

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:59 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:35 am
Kidneydoc wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:47 am
Umbrella insurance $3M for $620 annually with GEICO. Thinking of upping coverage to $4M next year as assets growing. I am thinking of getting another insurance quote for home/auto/umbrella with Chubb given their reputation for paying out claims.
We have used Chubb for years for auto, homeowner, and umbrella. Their premiums are very high, and that's a bummer, but filing a claim is smooth and there isn't the adversarial assumption that you're probably trying to commit insurance fraud.

The quote from Chubb is unlikely to be competitive with GEICO. But, pay now or (possibly) pay later.
I use GEICO for auto and umbrella (they aren't competitive on home at all), have never felt they were adversarial when I did place a claim on auto. Chubb was recently acquired so we'll see if their famed reputation continues. Chubb is known for insuring high net worth individuals and assets that are not uncommon - like art collections, etc. Replacing items like that costs more than the art I can pick up in just any store.
Slightly OT, but I always thought that you "had to" use the same company for auto, home, and umbrella. Lately, this is the second or third instance where I've seen that, at least for GEICO, it's not the case. Just don't crash your car into your house and injure the mailman, I guess :D

User avatar
gasdoc
Posts: 1456
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:26 am

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by gasdoc » Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:43 pm

Do plaintiff attorneys know how much of an umbrella you have in a malpractice case?

gasdoc

User avatar
jabberwockOG
Posts: 1282
Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 7:23 am

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by jabberwockOG » Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:13 pm

$128/yr for 1 mil. I was also able to slightly lower the cost of my auto and home insurance using the umbrella so over added yearly cost is likely about $75. Our assets are in excess of this amount but I was primarily looking to utilize the umbrella to get the insurance company's legal team on my side should we have an accident related issue/claim.

LSLover
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 1:39 pm

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by LSLover » Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:15 pm

jabberwockOG wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:13 pm
$128/yr for 1 mil. I was also able to slightly lower the cost of my auto and home insurance using the umbrella so over added yearly cost is likely about $75. Our assets are in excess of this amount but I was primarily looking to get the insurance companies legal team on my side should be have an issue/claim.
Do you mind naming your carrier?

A1Sauce975
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:15 am

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by A1Sauce975 » Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:30 pm

Another useful item to look into is Excess UM Coverage. Not all umbrella policies offer this, and many only offer excess liability.

Many say that the UM portion of an auto policy is perhaps the most important coverage (and often overlooked) of their auto insurance policy. Uninsured driver with no assets hits you and causes lifelong injuries? UM coverage will pay for hospital bills, medical expenses, pain and suffering, lost wages, future loss of enjoyment of life, future loss of wages, etc.

In this day and age, we can't rely on others to have insurance, which is why I also feel that UM coverage is one of the most important aspects of an auto insurance policy. So I'd have to vote for getting an umbrella policy with a specific Excess UM Coverage rider.

I pay $253 a year for a $1 million umbrella, with an additional rider for $1 million Excess UM.

User avatar
jabberwockOG
Posts: 1282
Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 7:23 am

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by jabberwockOG » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:57 pm

LSLover wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:15 pm
jabberwockOG wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:13 pm
$128/yr for 1 mil. I was also able to slightly lower the cost of my auto and home insurance using the umbrella so over added yearly cost is likely about $75. Our assets are in excess of this amount but I was primarily looking to get the insurance companies legal team on my side should be have an issue/claim.
Do you mind naming your carrier?
State Farm - 3 cars and 2500 sf home, same carrier for 20+ years, we live in a LCOL area, both retired, no at fault insurance claim in apprx 25 years.

Small Law Survivor
Posts: 451
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:36 pm

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by Small Law Survivor » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:05 pm

MikeG62 wrote:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:48 am
Insurance agent I spoke with said they had never personally seen anyone approved for more than $5 million before (and consequently never personally seen anyone who opted for that level of coverage).
I have $10MM with Chubb. $900/year.

Small Law Survivor
Posts: 451
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:36 pm

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by Small Law Survivor » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:08 pm

gasdoc wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:43 pm
Do plaintiff attorneys know how much of an umbrella you have in a malpractice case?
In many states not only can they learn this in routine discovery, but you are OBLIGATED to tell them up front, in the highly unlikely event that they forget to ask. I guess someone hanging a shingle right out of law school might fall into that category.

User avatar
jainn
Posts: 231
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:41 pm

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by jainn » Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:58 pm

We have a total of $10M Umbrella. We pay $800 for $5M umbrella (maximum provided by our insurance company) and another $750 for additional $5M excess liability umbrella which begins if the first $5M is exhausted... the primary insurance company for which we have auto and home and umbrella is the broker/middleman for the excess third party company. I thought it was odd and when we renewed this year I called the insurance company providing the excess to see about having the excess written directly with us but they said they only work with primary insurance company. Both primary and excess companies are highly rated so I just shrug it off. I contemplated calling chubb or travelers to get a quote for $10M-15M (travelers max is $10M, chubb a lot more), but decided to wait another year to deal with that...

jainn

Hogan773
Posts: 343
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 11:14 am

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by Hogan773 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:14 pm

So while I read the thread I'm still trying to understand the proper amount of coverage. Why does it depend on Net Worth? That's what I don't get?

I can see if one has low net worth that no lawyer will bother going after it if you provide a substantial target from the Umbrella. $1mm umbrella and $250K net worth, prob not worth it to try to sue beyond the insurance.

But if someone has $5mm net worth, WHY does it matter whether you choose a $2mm, $3mm or $5mm umbrella? Getting the $5mm "covers your net worth" but wouldn't an opposing lawyer still say "great, I'll sue for $10mm then and try to grab the extra $5mm net worth on top of the umbrella"????

I tend to think this is all just tails of probability.....and it is much less likely you will get yourself into a situation where someone could reasonably seek a settlement worth $10mm vs $1mm.....regardless of your net worth.

I agree on the philosophy that you should have "ENOUGH" of an umbrella that you are getting good lawyers from the insurance company to protect their exposure. But it's not clear to me why I should pay for a $5mm umbrella vs 2mm or 3mm as I would think I am still getting good lawyers.

So again it's not clear to me how the "match your assets with an umbrella" applies to those with net worths of 4mm, 5mm, 10mm, etc. I can see it as a good sales tool for the masses as they get "wealthy" with 500K or 1mm in assets and insurance industry wants to start selling them 1mm umbrellas....

Thoughts?

Iridium
Posts: 157
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 10:49 am

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by Iridium » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:53 pm

Hogan773 wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:14 pm
So while I read the thread I'm still trying to understand the proper amount of coverage. Why does it depend on Net Worth? That's what I don't get?

I can see if one has low net worth that no lawyer will bother going after it if you provide a substantial target from the Umbrella. $1mm umbrella and $250K net worth, prob not worth it to try to sue beyond the insurance.

But if someone has $5mm net worth, WHY does it matter whether you choose a $2mm, $3mm or $5mm umbrella? Getting the $5mm "covers your net worth" but wouldn't an opposing lawyer still say "great, I'll sue for $10mm then and try to grab the extra $5mm net worth on top of the umbrella"????

<Snip>
The biggest purpose of the umbrella limit is to tempt the other side into giving you a settlement offer within policy limits. If the plaintiff offers to settle within limits, then one of two good things will happen for him/her:

1) The insurance company accepts the settlement. The plaintiff gets paid more or less immediately in one lump sum with no further fuss and can start moving in with their lives.

2) The insurance company does not accept the settlement. The insurance limits become de facto unlimited at that point. So the plaintiff is guaranteed to be paid what the courts declared their damages to be.

Having insurance limits to cover your assets lines up nicely with the old expression "a bird in hand is worth two in the bush". Sure, you can try to go after the personal assets, but then you will have to go years before seeing any money at all, have to go through depositions and a trial where the insurance company's lawyers will do everything in their power to make you look like a terrible person who was at least partially at fault for the accident, and have to put your fate in the hands of 12 jurors who could value your life under a million dollars just as easily as value it at 100 million. Versus: taking the easy 5 million and moving on with one's life. I.e. 5MM in hand vs 10MM in the courts. On, the flip side, with your suggestion of a 2MM max, then the plaintiff faces 2 MM in hand, vs 7 MM in the courts. I would think that the extra 5MM of personal assets are just that much more tempting, when one is sitting on 2MM than when one is already sitting on 5MM.

Hogan773
Posts: 343
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 11:14 am

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by Hogan773 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:41 pm

Iridium wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:53 pm
Hogan773 wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:14 pm
So while I read the thread I'm still trying to understand the proper amount of coverage. Why does it depend on Net Worth? That's what I don't get?

I can see if one has low net worth that no lawyer will bother going after it if you provide a substantial target from the Umbrella. $1mm umbrella and $250K net worth, prob not worth it to try to sue beyond the insurance.

But if someone has $5mm net worth, WHY does it matter whether you choose a $2mm, $3mm or $5mm umbrella? Getting the $5mm "covers your net worth" but wouldn't an opposing lawyer still say "great, I'll sue for $10mm then and try to grab the extra $5mm net worth on top of the umbrella"????

<Snip>
The biggest purpose of the umbrella limit is to tempt the other side into giving you a settlement offer within policy limits. If the plaintiff offers to settle within limits, then one of two good things will happen for him/her:

1) The insurance company accepts the settlement. The plaintiff gets paid more or less immediately in one lump sum with no further fuss and can start moving in with their lives.

2) The insurance company does not accept the settlement. The insurance limits become de facto unlimited at that point. So the plaintiff is guaranteed to be paid what the courts declared their damages to be.

Having insurance limits to cover your assets lines up nicely with the old expression "a bird in hand is worth two in the bush". Sure, you can try to go after the personal assets, but then you will have to go years before seeing any money at all, have to go through depositions and a trial where the insurance company's lawyers will do everything in their power to make you look like a terrible person who was at least partially at fault for the accident, and have to put your fate in the hands of 12 jurors who could value your life under a million dollars just as easily as value it at 100 million. Versus: taking the easy 5 million and moving on with one's life. I.e. 5MM in hand vs 10MM in the courts. On, the flip side, with your suggestion of a 2MM max, then the plaintiff faces 2 MM in hand, vs 7 MM in the courts. I would think that the extra 5MM of personal assets are just that much more tempting, when one is sitting on 2MM than when one is already sitting on 5MM.

Ok I can see that re: settlement offer. I guess I wasn't focusing on the "easy money vs hard work through a long trial money". So it is really just a balance between the umbrella amount vs your personal assets. Doesn't necessarily have to cover 1 to 1 but the bigger the umbrella vs your assets, the less likely someone will want to bother taking that much more onerous step of trying to grab the assets beyond the umbrella.

I don't understand your statement #2 "the insurance limits become unlimited at that point"?

If someone offers to settle for $1mm and I have net worth of $50 million (just using a hyperbolic example), and the insurance company says NO, doesn't the insurance company still only hold risk up to $3mm if I have a $3mm umbrella? Do I have a choice to force the insurance company to settle rather than take it to trial and risk my net worth?

nwbum
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:06 pm

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by nwbum » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:13 pm

Just received my renewal for a $1M umbrella policy with Travelers. Just my wife and I. Primary residence and one car, $401. Additional car, $40. Miscellaneous exposure, 2nd home, $25. Total $466. Less companion policy credits, home and car, -$140. Net cost $326. Primary residence in SE Pennsylvania. Based upon discussion in this thread I will call tomorrow to see what incremental costs will be for $2M and $5M policy.

MedSaver
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:33 pm

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by MedSaver » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:49 pm

gasdoc wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:43 pm
Do plaintiff attorneys know how much of an umbrella you have in a malpractice case?

gasdoc
I'm pretty sure umbrella excludes professional liability like malpractice, so it doesn't matter what your umbrella limit is.

Hogan773
Posts: 343
Joined: Thu May 07, 2015 11:14 am

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by Hogan773 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:15 pm

Hogan773 wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:41 pm
Iridium wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:53 pm
Hogan773 wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:14 pm
So while I read the thread I'm still trying to understand the proper amount of coverage. Why does it depend on Net Worth? That's what I don't get?

I can see if one has low net worth that no lawyer will bother going after it if you provide a substantial target from the Umbrella. $1mm umbrella and $250K net worth, prob not worth it to try to sue beyond the insurance.

But if someone has $5mm net worth, WHY does it matter whether you choose a $2mm, $3mm or $5mm umbrella? Getting the $5mm "covers your net worth" but wouldn't an opposing lawyer still say "great, I'll sue for $10mm then and try to grab the extra $5mm net worth on top of the umbrella"????

<Snip>
The biggest purpose of the umbrella limit is to tempt the other side into giving you a settlement offer within policy limits. If the plaintiff offers to settle within limits, then one of two good things will happen for him/her:

1) The insurance company accepts the settlement. The plaintiff gets paid more or less immediately in one lump sum with no further fuss and can start moving in with their lives.

2) The insurance company does not accept the settlement. The insurance limits become de facto unlimited at that point. So the plaintiff is guaranteed to be paid what the courts declared their damages to be.

Having insurance limits to cover your assets lines up nicely with the old expression "a bird in hand is worth two in the bush". Sure, you can try to go after the personal assets, but then you will have to go years before seeing any money at all, have to go through depositions and a trial where the insurance company's lawyers will do everything in their power to make you look like a terrible person who was at least partially at fault for the accident, and have to put your fate in the hands of 12 jurors who could value your life under a million dollars just as easily as value it at 100 million. Versus: taking the easy 5 million and moving on with one's life. I.e. 5MM in hand vs 10MM in the courts. On, the flip side, with your suggestion of a 2MM max, then the plaintiff faces 2 MM in hand, vs 7 MM in the courts. I would think that the extra 5MM of personal assets are just that much more tempting, when one is sitting on 2MM than when one is already sitting on 5MM.

Ok I can see that re: settlement offer. I guess I wasn't focusing on the "easy money vs hard work through a long trial money". So it is really just a balance between the umbrella amount vs your personal assets. Doesn't necessarily have to cover 1 to 1 but the bigger the umbrella vs your assets, the less likely someone will want to bother taking that much more onerous step of trying to grab the assets beyond the umbrella.

I don't understand your statement #2 "the insurance limits become unlimited at that point"?

If someone offers to settle for $1mm and I have net worth of $50 million (just using a hyperbolic example), and the insurance company says NO, doesn't the insurance company still only hold risk up to $3mm if I have a $3mm umbrella? Do I have a choice to force the insurance company to settle rather than take it to trial and risk my net worth?
I ended up doing some more reading on different thread and found this

If you're being sued for an amount that would reasonably fall within the confines of your coverage, you'll definitely be able to let your insurance counsel know you want to settle. The insurance company may not agree with you and want to proceed with the suit, but they would be responsible for amounts in excess of your coverage. As the insured, you would not have much control over the lawyer that the insurance company is providing for you which certainly has its own limitations.


So sounds like if you had the chance to settle within policy limits and the insurer refuses, then they take the risk of all losses should you/they lose the case

visualguy
Posts: 618
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:32 am

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by visualguy » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:40 am

The important question is what actually happens in the real world in terms of judgement against individual drivers (not companies). My understanding based on previous threads on this topic, and some other research, is that a scenario where someone gets a judgement over $2M that goes after their personal assets pretty much doesn't happen for traffic accidents (without DUI or some truly gross negligence).

It's one of those things that seems like a real risk, but I haven't seen information that it actually happens in practice. Seems like more information is needed to determine if an umbrella over $2M is of any extra benefit, regardless of assets. Unless there was some alarming information/examples on this from knowledgeable sources, I don't think I would lose any sleep with "only" $2M in umbrella even with much more in assets. Sure, the premiums are pretty low for umbrella, but there's a good reason for that, and it's still money that could be used for something else.

AnimalSpirits
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:30 am

Re: Do you have an umbrella policy?

Post by AnimalSpirits » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:56 am

I'm trying to think of any other financial product that costs less than an umbrella policy, only thing I can think of is this forum! or maybe super low limit term life insurance?

How much does $250,000 go these days for major medical procedures? If you DON'T have an umbrella policy you're almost going "bare" with the low limits provided by auto and homeowners.

For those that have worked their entire lives to save up millions, you hesitate to spend $250-$500 year to protect that?

Also for those going direct to Geico, are they advising you on how much to get? I'm sure many think a $100,000 auto policy is sufficient, well sufficient to pay for the property damage caused from a crash.

Going to an independent agent, and maybe a captive agent, might inform you of the various settlements and claims that could happen that you might never have thought of. Like gee, most insurance policies would exclude if your kid gave someone an Uber ride. You want to rely on Uber's policy and lawyers to defend you? Or how about this:
"An insured’s son had a friend over for a play date. The kids were playing with the family dog. The family dog bit the son’s friend in the face resulting in multiple reconstructive surgeries. The injured child’s parents settled for roughly $10,000,000."

Here's an example of the thousands of lawyers who have won millions: https://www.schwebel.com/top-cases/
1 last example:
A 3-year-old boy was running to his babysitter in crosswalk in a recreational area when he was struck by a truck. He suffered numerous injuries but the most severe was a brachial plexus (loss of use of right arm) and a brain injury (several difficulties in cognitive functioning are consistent with brain trauma). He was able to maintain his grade level after the accident but continues to receive counseling. Settlement was $4.5 million with a structure that Guarantees payment of $10,014,632.00 with a probable payment of $20,551,285.00.

Post Reply