Medigap Plan F Increases

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drawpoker
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Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by drawpoker »

Am entering my 4th year on Medicare, signed up for Plan F from the git-go.
Today I got my renewal notice (BC-BS Maryland) My new premium for this year represents a 16% increase.

Previous increases were: 8.1% in 2015 and 12.8% in 2016.

How do these percentages compare with the rest of you that are on Plan F?

(Please, not interested in advice on switching to lower cost Medigap plan or Medicare Advantage, no thanks.
Just would like to hear from others (know there are lots of members here also on Plan F) so I can compare my experiences, good or bad. )

Thanks
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Steelersfan
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by Steelersfan »

Western PA Plan F here.

10% increase in 2017 (to $215.00 a month) after a 6% increase in 2016.
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legio XX
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by legio XX »

I'm up 11% since 2013, but the rates are higher here in New York. Paying $279 right now.

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Gill
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by Gill »

Try the Plan F High Deductible. My premiums runs about $1100 a year.
Gill
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minesweep
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by minesweep »

For the first 9 months of 2016 I was paying $212.93/month for Medigap Plan F. In October 2016 the monthly payment increased to $227.84. For 2017 I switched my healthcare provider from Mutual of Omaha to Cigna Total Choice. My monthly payment for 2017 is $201.57 (a 13% decrease from the October increase with Mutual of Omaha). I turned 72 last month.
Time is your friend; impulse is your enemy - John Bogle | Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others, it's cheaper! - John Bogle
Ron
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by Ron »

Eastern PA, with AARP UHP Plan F:

2015 rate: 0.0% increase (from 2014 initial age 65 rate)
2016 rate: 7.5% increase
2017 rate: 6.3% increase

It might not be the cheapest plan around (current monthly rate of $152.92) but it's fully refunded via my former company's retirement HRA. To get the reimbursement, you must use their Medicare marketplace (Towers Watson) and this is one of the plans available in my area of the country. I'm not complaining :mrgreen: ...

- Ron
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dodecahedron
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by dodecahedron »

Gill wrote:Try the Plan F High Deductible. My premiums runs about $1100 a year.
Gill
I am considering a Medicare high deductible MSA plan. Even higher deductible than plan F high-deductible, but premiums are $0/month and the plan deposits $1800 per year into a Medical Savings Account (MSA), which I can use for any medical expenses (including those not covered by Medicare, e.g., vision and dental, and which allows unused balances to be rolled forward.) It is a PPO-POS plan, which allows me to use any provider anywhere in the country who accepts Medicare.

http://www.joinmvpmedicare.com/msafrommvp/

(Note that the link says they will deposit $1500 into a MSA, but that's in another part of the state. It is $1800 here.)

Since I am fortunate to be in excellent general health and hope to remain that way for a while, it makes a lot of sense to choose this for now. In addition to the MSA, I also have a substantial HSA balance available to pay for medical expenses in any high expense years.

(In my state (NY), I have the right to switch into any other MA or Medigap plan available in the future without underwriting, should I choose to do so.)
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BostonBoy
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by BostonBoy »

Florida AARP UHC Plan F ;

Initial Coverage 2015 $173.47
2016 No increase
2017 No increase
robertalpert
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by robertalpert »

Here in Ohio, My wife (age 67) had an 8% increase for plan F in 2017. She now pays $162 /month.

I have plan G and had a zero percent increase in 2017 (age 66) @ $126 / month.

Nearly all plans in Ohio increase with attained age. Is your state an attained age state(s) or an issue age state?
montanagirl
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by montanagirl »

With Equitable 3 years, issue age, went from $136 to 145 to 158 this year. Not sure what I'm going to do when the rates really spike after 2020. :(
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drawpoker
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by drawpoker »

robertalpert wrote:Nearly all plans in Ohio increase with attained age. Is your state an attained age state(s) or an issue age state?
If you are asking me ? (the OP) - Maryland does not regulate that aspect of the Medicare supplement market. The 36-odd insurers licensed here to sell Medigap are allowed to use any of the 3 = issue, attained, or community rated. (Only AARP-UHC uses community)

At the time I had to choose 4 years ago - my bad luck - the only one in MD who offered Plan F using issue-age method, not attained age, was a benevolent, fraternal society type insurer based in Goshen Indiana. You probably know who I mean.
As much as I wanted to get in on an issue-age rated plan (which would greatly protect me from high annual increases in later years) I decided to forego it. As I would have had to make some, er, declarations of faith to show that I was eligible to join the group and buy their insurance. If you know what I mean.

Didn't care for that angle of it at all.

Maybe that was a mistake.

Also, Maryland is not one of the states that observes open enrollment, no medical underwriting if you want to switch. Nope, looks like I am stuck, as 2 years after I went on Medicare, I was diagnosed with more really bad stuff that no insurer wants to hear about.
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drawpoker
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by drawpoker »

montanagirl wrote:With Equitable 3 years, issue age, went from $136 to 145 to 158 this year. Not sure what I'm going to do when the rates really spike after 2020. :(
Ah, I remember, montanagirl. Wasn't I one of the ones who sold you on the virtues of issue age?

Am Positively Green with Envy at your $158 premium. I am now up to $223 starting June 1 :( :( :( :( :(

Only one who beats me so far here is our friend in NY, legio XX :!:
Grasshopper
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by Grasshopper »

BCBS medigap F in Arizona increased 5% from $159 to $167.
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Flobes
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by Flobes »

Colorado AARP UHC Medigap F.

2016: $128.20
2017: $129.95
Last edited by Flobes on Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
kaneohe
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by kaneohe »

AARP UHC Plan F.....typical increase over last five yrs.............averaging8.1%/yr for the last 5-6 yrs/
This includes the decreasing discount of-3%/yr so presumably the base increase is 5+%/yr.
Last edited by kaneohe on Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Lynette
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by Lynette »

.....
Last edited by Lynette on Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
minesweep
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by minesweep »

Ron wrote:Eastern PA, with AARP UHP Plan F:

2015 rate: 0.0% increase (from 2014 initial age 65 rate)
2016 rate: 7.5% increase
2017 rate: 6.3% increase

It might not be the cheapest plan around (current monthly rate of $152.92) but it's fully refunded via my former company's retirement HRA. To get the reimbursement, you must use their Medicare marketplace (Towers Watson) and this is one of the plans available in my area of the country. I'm not complaining :mrgreen: ...

- Ron
My plan goes through Tower Watson too. So I receive a healthcare reimbursement arrangement from my former employer as well. It's a fixed amount ($487.50 a quarter).
Time is your friend; impulse is your enemy - John Bogle | Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others, it's cheaper! - John Bogle
Ron
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by Ron »

minesweep wrote: My plan goes through Tower Watson too. So I receive a healthcare reimbursement arrangement from my former employer as well. It's a fixed amount ($487.50 a quarter).
Probably not; we (me/wife) get funded on an annual basis for a total of $5k/year.

- Ron
minesweep
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by minesweep »

Ron wrote:
minesweep wrote: My plan goes through Tower Watson too. So I receive a healthcare reimbursement arrangement from my former employer as well. It's a fixed amount ($487.50 a quarter).
Probably not; we (me/wife) get funded on an annual basis for a total of $5k/year.

- Ron
I removed my comment about possibly working at the same company (before you posted a reply). At first I thought that because we were both from eastern PA that might be the case. Then I reread your post and realized that (unlike me) you HRA was fully refunded by your former employer. I only did this reply so anyone reading your reply would make better sense of it.
Time is your friend; impulse is your enemy - John Bogle | Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others, it's cheaper! - John Bogle
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plannerman
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by plannerman »

High deductible Plan F in NC, $432, times two for spouse. Slight decrease from 2016.

plannerman
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Sheepdog
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by Sheepdog »

When I had Medigap F or G plans the premiums increased with age and with higher percentage increases(upper 10s and 20s) in my late 70s to the point when I reached 80 the cost was too high. I then changed to an Advantage plan which is saving me over $2000 each year with good coverage. My wife also changed last year at age 76 to a different Advantage plan with similar savings.
These statistics for us may be of interest to some of you.

INSURANCE COSTS BY YEAR for 2 retired persons
2010 $4310 (plan Gs plus prescription coverage) Male age 77, Female age 70
2011 $4543
2012 $5536
2013 $6427
2014 $3918 (I went to an Advantage Plan while spouse remained with Medigap G) (Advantage plans include prescriptions)
2015 $3918 (Advantage plan dropped in rate while spouse's Plan G increased!!)
2016 $1641 (Spouse went to an Advantage plan also) (Male age 83, Female age 76)

EDIT to add a comparison of TOTAL medical out-of-pocket expenses (insurance, labs, hearing aids, eye care, prescriptions, physician and hospital copays, etc., but not dental)
2013 with plan Gs (last year before going to an Advantage plan) $9144
2016 $4935
Time is the school in which we learn, time is the fire in which we burn.~ Delmore Schwartz
schachtw
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by schachtw »

Age 66
BCBSIL Medigap Plan F (select)
2016 - $148
2017 - $151 2% increase

I feel lucky based on some of the other replies.
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CWRadio
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by CWRadio »

This web site has cost comparison for all states and plans. Just use "just run my report..."
Free Medicare Report.
https://www.freemedicarereport.com/

Paul
kd2008
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by kd2008 »

I am a baby compared to folks on this thread. I am just playing with numbers to see piece together the whole picture. Please let me know if I left anything out.

(For some instances Part B premiums are lower if also receiving SS.)

It seems

Part A (no premium)
+
Part B (about $134/month) + Medicare Supplement Plan F - high deductible (about $76/month) + Medicare Part D - prescription (about $30/month on the lowest tier) = $255/month or $3060 per year in premiums + $2200 deductible + some exposure for Part D max

Oye this is expensive but limits exposure really well.

or

Part A (no premium)
+
Part B (about $134/month) + Medicare Advantage (about $0/month for cheapest) = $134/month or $1608 per year in premiums + $6700 out-of-pocket max

Not cheap either!

Minimum alternative is

Part A (no premium)
+
Part B (about $134/month) = $134/month or $1608 per year in premiums and ride out prescription costs and no-limit out of pocket

I guess there are network coverage issues esp. if you choose medicare advantage plan or a supplement plan F select (lowers your premiums) beyond what is everyday struggle in finding medicare assignment.

Also medical underwriting issues and age-based and pre-existing condition rating on Medicare supplement plans.

So I can see that relatively healthy folks go with medicare advantage part while chronic condition folks go with plan F.

Something similar to high-deductible plan + hsa for younger families and traditional ppo plans for families needed continued care.

Things you learn on this forum!
kd2008
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by kd2008 »

Sheepdog wrote:When I had Medigap F or G plans the premiums increased with age and with higher percentage increases(upper 10s and 20s) in my late 70s to the point when I reached 80 the cost was too high. I then changed to an Advantage plan which is saving me over $2000 each year with good coverage. My wife also changed last year at age 76 to a different Advantage plan with similar savings.
These statistics for us may be of interest to some of you.

INSURANCE COSTS BY YEAR for 2 retired persons
2010 $4310 (plan Gs plus prescription coverage) Male age 77, Female age 70
2011 $4543
2012 $5536
2013 $6427
2014 $3918 (I went to an Advantage Plan while spouse remained with Medigap G) (Advantage plans include prescriptions)
2015 $3918 (Advantage plan dropped in rate while spouse's Plan G increased!!)
2016 $1641 (Spouse went to an Advantage plan also) (Male age 83, Female age 76)

EDIT to add a comparison of TOTAL medical out-of-pocket expenses (insurance, labs, hearing aids, eye care, prescriptions, physician and hospital copays, etc., but not dental)
2013 with plan Gs (last year before going to an Advantage plan) $9144
2016 $4935
This was very helpful. Thanks for sharing!
Lynette
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by Lynette »

......
Last edited by Lynette on Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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drawpoker
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by drawpoker »

kd2008 wrote:....am just playing with numbers to see piece together the whole picture. Please let me know if I left anything out.

1 ......+ Medicare Supplement Plan F - high deductible (about $76/month) .....



2....Minimum alternative...

...... ride out prescription costs and no-limit out of pocket

As for #1 - Plan F, both regular and HD, is being discontinued in every state as of Jan 1 2020. Unless you turn 65 before then, you won't have that option available.

#2 - If you don't choose a Part D (PDP) and decide to "ride out prescription costs" you will be hit with a substantial penalty when you do eventually sign up (unless you can show you had creditable other Rx coverage from an employer, union, dependent coverage thru spousal, etc or other source.
The penalty for going without Part D follows you the rest of your life, it is not just a one-time penalty. It is calculated based on the number of months you went without; get up in the range of 36 months or so, well, it will put a hurt on you.
S&L1940
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by S&L1940 »

AARP United Health Plan F no deductible, went from $130 per month up north to about $190 in Florida (same carrier in same year)
A decade later I am now at $257 with no increase from 2016
So that is $3084 in premiums with no out of pocket costs
Dear Wife started with Omaha World much lower and now is at higher monthly cost than United - close to $300 per month
Don't it always seem to go * That you don't know what you've got * Till it's gone
kd2008
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by kd2008 »

drawpoker wrote:
kd2008 wrote:....am just playing with numbers to see piece together the whole picture. Please let me know if I left anything out.

1 ......+ Medicare Supplement Plan F - high deductible (about $76/month) .....



2....Minimum alternative...

...... ride out prescription costs and no-limit out of pocket

As for #1 - Plan F, both regular and HD, is being discontinued in every state as of Jan 1 2020. Unless you turn 65 before then, you won't have that option available.

#2 - If you don't choose a Part D (PDP) and decide to "ride out prescription costs" you will be hit with a substantial penalty when you do eventually sign up (unless you can show you had creditable other Rx coverage from an employer, union, dependent coverage thru spousal, etc or other source.
The penalty for going without Part D follows you the rest of your life, it is not just a one-time penalty. It is calculated based on the number of months you went without; get up in the range of 36 months or so, well, it will put a hurt on you.
Yeah plan f will go away and everyone's new best friend will be plan g and plan f hd will become plan g hd (new thing starting 2020) so a deductible of 183$ for all plans offered. No biggie.
kd2008
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by kd2008 »

Lynette wrote:
kd2008 wrote:I am a baby compared to folks on this thread.

So I can see that relatively healthy folks go with medicare advantage part while chronic condition folks go with plan F.

No, I haven't been to a doctor for 3 months. I had to undergo an underwriting examination for Medigap F as I enrolled into Medicare at 73 after retiring from second Megacorp instead of at 65. You have a window of opportunity at 65 to enroll for any plan. After that age, you have to do underwriting. If you have pre-existing conditions, you may not be accepted.

Things you learn on this forum!
You are wrong or were duped. See direct from medicare website below.

When your employer coverage ends, you'll get a chance to enroll in Part B without a late enrollment penalty. That means your Medigap open enrollment period will start when you're ready to take advantage of it. If you enrolled in Part B while you still had the employer coverage, your Medigap open enrollment period would start. Unless you bought a Medigap policy before you needed it, you’d miss your open enrollment period entirely

See
https://www.medicare.gov/supplement-oth ... lapse-2510
Last edited by kd2008 on Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lynette
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by Lynette »

Maybe I did not explain my situation clearly. I retired on 12/31/2016. That is when my employer's coverage ended. As I retired at the age of 73 instead of 65 when most people start Medicare, I had to prove to Medicare that I had coverage until 12/31/2016. I paid Medicare B and D premiums effective 1/1/2017 - about $300 a month. I enrolled for Medigap F and Humana Drug D prescription plan effective 1/1/2017. I did not have duplicate coverage for any period.
kd2008
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by kd2008 »

Lynette wrote:Maybe I did not explain my situation clearly. I retired on 12/31/2016. That is when my employer's coverage ended. As I retired at the age of 73 instead of 65 when most people start Medicare, I had to prove to Medicare that I had coverage until 12/31/2016. I paid Medicare B and D premiums effective 1/1/2017 - about $300 a month. I enrolled for Medigap F and Humana Drug D prescription plan effective 1/1/2017. I did not have duplicate coverage for any period.
Got it. So there was no medical underwriting involved here. Just that you had to prove you had employer coverage till you decided to enroll in medicare. You were in special enrollment period post employer coverage. Also because of it you were eligible for open enrollment for medigap policy granting you guaranteed coverage. And you completed your enrollment and all is good. :)
Lynette
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by Lynette »

Maybe I don't really understand what medical underwriting is. To get Medicare B, I worked with SS. To get AARP Medigap F, I had to answer a whole lot of questions. This was administered by the Medicare Health Exchange. I had to do a voice signature. I was sent a copy of my answers by UHC AARP. I assumed that this was underwriting.

Many people were confused about how to deal with my situation as I worked past the usual Medicare age of 65. SS told me I had to provide proof that I had had creditable health care coverage and sent me a form to fill in when I called the Medicare number. An HR Rep with whom I dealt at my company told me I did not need this as my W2 proved that I had health care coverage. I told the HR Rep to please provide it to me. They got the date of my coverage wrong. After several visits to SS office, calls to the Medicare number etc. I finally got my Medicare B card.
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drawpoker
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by drawpoker »

Lynette wrote:Maybe I don't really understand what medical underwriting is. To get Medicare B, I worked with SS. To get AARP Medigap F, I had to answer a whole lot of questions. This was administered by the Medicare Health Exchange. I had to do a voice signature. I was sent a copy of my answers by UHC AARP. I assumed that this was underwriting.

Many people were confused about how to deal with my situation as I worked past the usual Medicare age of 65. SS told me I had to provide proof that I had had creditable health care coverage and sent me a form to fill in when I called the Medicare number. An HR Rep with whom I dealt at my company told me I did not need this as my W2 proved that I had health care coverage. I told the HR Rep to please provide it to me. They got the date of my coverage wrong. After several visits to SS office, calls to the Medicare number etc. I finally got my Medicare B card.
Wow. A whole lot of mistakes here.

The HR rep gave you bad info. A W-2 is NOT considered by SSA and Medicare as proof of "creditable". Not by a long shot. There is an actual form for this dictated by Medicare/CMS - shame on your company's HR people for their ignorance!

When you applied for your AARP-UHC Medigap Plan F - if you had to "answer a whole lot of questions" that doesn't sound like they honored your status as an applicant entitled to the Guarantee Issue Period.

Guarantee Issue period is essentially the same as Open Enrollment period - they can't ask you any, not a single one, about your existing health. (Only exception to this: tobacco use is permitted)

What were the "whole lot of questions" you were required to answer to get your Plan F insurance?
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drawpoker
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by drawpoker »

kd2008 wrote:Yeah plan f will go away and everyone's new best friend will be plan g and plan f hd will become plan g hd (new thing starting 2020) so a deductible of 183$ for all plans offered. No biggie.
No biggie?

will become plan g-hd? new thing starting 2020?

Yes, it has been brought up, but to my knowledge, Congress has yet to act on it. Make it law in other words.

Do you have definite info that it has passed? Link? Please?

Even if such a Plan G-HD becomes a reality, do you really think that today's Part B deductible ( $183) won't be significantly higher three years from now ?

I damm sure do. :(
kd2008
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by kd2008 »

drawpoker wrote:
kd2008 wrote:Yeah plan f will go away and everyone's new best friend will be plan g and plan f hd will become plan g hd (new thing starting 2020) so a deductible of 183$ for all plans offered. No biggie.
No biggie?

will become plan g-hd? new thing starting 2020?

Yes, it has been brought up, but to my knowledge, Congress has yet to act on it. Make it law in other words.

Do you have definite info that it has passed? Link? Please?

Even if such a Plan G-HD becomes a reality, do you really think that today's Part B deductible ( $183) won't be significantly higher three years from now ?

I damm sure do. :(
http://www.naic.org/documents/committee ... 200101.pdf

This is one of the comprehensive docs I found online.

Bill text is clear too
(4) Treatment of references to certain policies.--In the
case of a newly eligible Medicare beneficiary, except as the
Secretary may otherwise provide, any reference in this section
to a medicare supplemental policy which has a benefit package
classified as `C' or `F' shall be deemed, as of January 1, 2020,
to be a reference to a medicare supplemental policy which has a
benefit package classified as `D' or `G', respectively.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-con ... ill/2/text

search for 401 on that page and go to second instance.

With that text F high deductible becomes G high deductible for new beneficiaries signing up in 2020. Already enrolled folks are grandfathered in. And plan G does not cover Part B deductible.

This bill is law of the land.

Part B deductible will rise but that increase formula is also set in stone. Dont have the text handy for that.
Lynette
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by Lynette »

......
Last edited by Lynette on Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Topic Author
drawpoker
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Re: Medigap Plan F Increases

Post by drawpoker »

kd2008 wrote: http://www.naic.org/documents/committee ... 200101.pdf

This is one of the comprehensive docs I found online.

Bill text is clear too
(4) Treatment of references to certain policies.--In the
case of a newly eligible Medicare beneficiary, except as the
Secretary may otherwise provide, any reference in this section
to a medicare supplemental policy which has a benefit package
classified as `C' or `F' shall be deemed, as of January 1, 2020,
to be a reference to a medicare supplemental policy which has a
benefit package classified as `D' or `G', respectively.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-con ... ill/2/text

search for 401 on that page and go to second instance.

With that text F high deductible becomes G high deductible for new beneficiaries signing up in 2020. Already enrolled folks are grandfathered in. And plan G does not cover Part B deductible.

This bill is law of the land.

Part B deductible will rise but that increase formula is also set in stone. Dont have the text handy for that.
Let's clarify.

The first link you posted is a draft document from March 1 2016 requesting comments. In that draft, a proposed new standardized Plan G-high deduct is included.

However, as commonly happens with Congress, changes were made to the final bill which passed and the creation of a new standardized Plan didn't make it in. Re-read Sec. 401.

What is most likely, however, is what I am seeing from insurance agents on their blogs - that yes, Congress will eventually take action prior to 2020 and authorization of such a new Plan.

However, keep in mind, the insurance companies in every state are allowed to pick and choose which Medicare supplement plans they offer. There is no law that says every insurer who offers Medigap policies must carry every single one of the existing ten (10) plans.

Since you have approximately thirty years to go before you are eligible for Medicare, you have plenty of time to scroll thru the various state's insurance websites to see this for yourself.

IOW, even tho it is likely such a creature as Plan G- HD will spring into existence, there is no guarantee it will be available to you where you are living then. Even the big ones - for ex BC-BS for the section of the state where I live - did not offer Plan F-HD 4 years ago, and still doesn't. (Correction: Just checked, they are now offering F-HD.
But Aetna, Mutual of Omaha, AARP-UHC, and numerous others have turned up their noses at F-HD.
I imagine they will do the same with a G-HD

See for yourself

http://insurance.maryland.gov/Consumer/ ... -Guide.pdf

New York is very similar in findings

http://www.dfs.ny.gov/consumer/caremain.htm#insurer

Even in Little-itty-bitty Vermont, same picture

http://www.dfr.vermont.gov/sites/defaul ... 3-17_1.pdf
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