When do you plan to die?

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Jimmie
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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by Jimmie » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:34 am

White Coat Investor wrote:There's some good data out there that shows people who annuitize live longer on average. Something to think about. Annuitize enough and maybe you live to 120.
Perhaps this works because of reverse logic.

People who are predisposed to a long life through environment, healthy lifestyle choices, and genetics CHOOSE annuities because they are more likely to take advantage of them. No one who is in bad shape and predisposed to a likelihood of a short life would purchase one.

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JDCarpenter
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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by JDCarpenter » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:26 am

Jimmie wrote:
White Coat Investor wrote:There's some good data out there that shows people who annuitize live longer on average. Something to think about. Annuitize enough and maybe you live to 120.
Perhaps this works because of reverse logic.

People who are predisposed to a long life through environment, healthy lifestyle choices, and genetics CHOOSE annuities because they are more likely to take advantage of them. No one who is in bad shape and predisposed to a likelihood of a short life would purchase one.
This is the oft-discussed adverse selection hazard in the individual annuity market. (And you missed WCI's hidden /sarc tag!)
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Taylor Larimore
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Planning to Die

Post by Taylor Larimore » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:57 am

You have to plan with something and I just don't see the point of planning with 100 or anything close. In the long-run we are all dead. I picked 80 for both spouse and I - I don't think either of us will get to that age.
I once felt the same but I am VERY glad that I planned to live longer.

Best wishes.
Taylor (age 93)
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle

Lynette
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Re: Planning to Die

Post by Lynette » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:03 am

Taylor Larimore wrote:
You have to plan with something and I just don't see the point of planning with 100 or anything close. In the long-run we are all dead. I picked 80 for both spouse and I - I don't think either of us will get to that age.
I once felt the same but I am VERY glad that I planned to live longer.

Best wishes.
Taylor (age 93)
Congratulations Taylor and thanks for your contributions to this site. Looking forward to continue reading your advice for many more years.

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ruralavalon
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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by ruralavalon » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:35 am

I used 96 for planning purposes, that's not a prediction. I retired at 66, that 96 years simply represented a 30 year retirement.

My father died at age 47, my mother died at age 98, my younger brother died at age 69.

We will both be 72 this summer. According to a period life table my life expectancy is 85, my wife's life expectancy is 87. We both have serious health issues, and could get a multi-year medical rating if buying an annuity.
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White Coat Investor
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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by White Coat Investor » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:40 am

JDCarpenter wrote:
Jimmie wrote:
White Coat Investor wrote:There's some good data out there that shows people who annuitize live longer on average. Something to think about. Annuitize enough and maybe you live to 120.
Perhaps this works because of reverse logic.

People who are predisposed to a long life through environment, healthy lifestyle choices, and genetics CHOOSE annuities because they are more likely to take advantage of them. No one who is in bad shape and predisposed to a likelihood of a short life would purchase one.
This is the oft-discussed adverse selection hazard in the individual annuity market. (And you missed WCI's hidden /sarc tag!)
For sure correlation is not causation.
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Dutch
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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by Dutch » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:43 am

I use 85 for planning purposes.

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rob
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Re: Planning to Die

Post by rob » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:46 am

Taylor Larimore wrote:
You have to plan with something and I just don't see the point of planning with 100 or anything close. In the long-run we are all dead. I picked 80 for both spouse and I - I don't think either of us will get to that age.
I once felt the same but I am VERY glad that I planned to live longer.

Best wishes.
Taylor (age 93)
lol - Yeah but your the preverbal black swan - or at least can see it from where you are. :D

For planning I think I'm going to stick with that knowing that in all likelihood there will be enough left over if we live past 80. I don't want to work for years longer just to be ultra safe we have enough money until 100 - or worse die right after I retire.
| Rob | Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien

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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by Sandtrap » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:51 am

ruralavalon wrote:I used 96 for planning purposes, that's not a prediction. I retired at 66, that 96 years simply represented a 30 year retirement.

My father died at age 47, my mother died at age 98, my younger brother died at age 69.

We will both be 72 this summer. According to a period life table my life expectancy is 85, my wife's life expectancy is 87. We both have serious health issues, and could get a multi-year medical rating if buying an annuity.
Thanks for sharing that. (wish you well)
I share your concerns. Health issues are indeed a huge issue for retiree seniors. Certainly a real life tangible component when experienced personally vs otherwise when it is conceptual. (Healthy and in accumulation phase vs otherwise. ) Perhaps health history and current status trumps actuarial tables and genetics. Besides one's demise, there is also a "glide path" for "quality of life" that might be considered in one's financial planning. Retiree Health Glide Path, RHGP.

AlwaysBeClimbing
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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by AlwaysBeClimbing » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:57 am

I operate under the assumption that barring a societal meltdown I will always have food and shelter(SS alone ensures that). If things get too bad 'quality of life' wise, I'll likely shortcut nature. So to answer the OP's question, I don't worry about it.

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Gort
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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by Gort » Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:54 am

Probably the day after the government decides to eliminate all income tax and refund all previous taxes paid.

aristotelian
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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by aristotelian » Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:05 pm

I don't plan to die so much as put my body in cryogenic storage, and upload my consciousness to a computer until the technology exists to repair my body. I am hoping my portfolio will be worth $16 trillion at that point. That is, if the economy as we know it still exists.

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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by Nova1967 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:44 pm

I'd like to deplete most of my assets by 80, after that I can get by on a small pension and hopefully SS that I will delay until 70.

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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by timmy » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:46 pm

100

AND the title of your thread ... Just excellent!

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Re: Planning to Die

Post by rralex1 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:50 pm

Taylor Larimore wrote:
You have to plan with something and I just don't see the point of planning with 100 or anything close. In the long-run we are all dead. I picked 80 for both spouse and I - I don't think either of us will get to that age.
I once felt the same but I am VERY glad that I planned to live longer.

Best wishes.
Taylor (age 93)
+1

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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by bowtie » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:47 pm

Somewhat related... I glanced at R. Edelman's latest book today off the shelf at Barnes and Noble....he claims that nursing homes will become obsolete .....he predicts longer and healthier lifespans but I didn't look any further to see just when he anticipates this to start. BT

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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by manuvns » Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:02 pm

101 like billionaire David Rockefeller

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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by 2comma » Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:07 pm

tc101 wrote:I am now 67, happy and in good health. Ten to twelve years ago I spent a lot of time in nursing homes watching my parents and the other people there die slowly and miserably. I decided to make my own decision about when it was time to go, rather than just letting nature take it's course. My plan was to kill myself at about age 85.

Recently I started taking piano lessons. My teacher is 90. She is very happy. I like her a lot. Now my plan is to kill myself when I am 91.

Who knows. Plans could change again.
I like your plan. Actually I wish I could do for me what I can do for my pets. If I had to take piano lessons again I think I'd dress up like a dog and head to the vet!
If I am stupid I will pay.

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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by Trader/Investor » Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:11 pm

bowtie wrote:Somewhat related... I glanced at R. Edelman's latest book today off the shelf at Barnes and Noble....he claims that nursing homes will become obsolete .....he predicts longer and healthier lifespans but I didn't look any further to see just when he anticipates this to start. BT
With obesity at record levels and growing I can't fathom how he can make such a prediction.

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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by 2comma » Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:12 pm

White Coat Investor wrote:There's some good data out there that shows people who annuitize live longer on average. Something to think about. Annuitize enough and maybe you live to 120.
Oh great, now the Whole Life salesmen will be trying to get people to buy enough to make it to 150... I guess that's what unintended consequences are all about.
If I am stupid I will pay.

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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by CaliJim » Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:35 pm

I use a combo of sources, and err on the high side.

Social Security thinks I'll live to 83 on average, and even longer if I make it to 70.
SS calculator: https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/population/longevity.html

North Western Mutual Live give me a bit longer, 99, because I don't smoke, don't have hypertension, etc:
http://media.nmfn.com/tnetwork/lifespan/#0

My dad died at 74 of prostate cancer. My uncle died at 93, having had his prostate removed when he was ~70. My mom is still kicking at 91.

For financial purposes, I'm planning to keep winking at pretty boys and girls, anyone who will smile back actually, until I'm 100.

Then it's turn out the lights, I want to go home.
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StevieG72
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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by StevieG72 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:56 am

For retirement planning I will use a conservative age 92.5 years.
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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by Pigeon » Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:31 am

Last month I buried my father (nearly 95) and my MIL (94). I think 95 is good for planning. I hope I go earlier as Alzheimers is a bitch . I just attended a SS seminar where the presenter said that something like 25% of all women live to at least 90%

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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by bowtie » Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:44 am

I didn't want to read Mr. Edelman's book though I liked one of his older ones. So i only looked at a page or two and have heard him advertise it on radio. This one deals with advances in medical and tech fields and he claims I believe that thru these advances people will live longer and healthier lives like well past 100, and that people will not require nursing homes.

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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by TheTimeLord » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:10 am

ribonucleic wrote:(Attention-grabbing title, eh?)

I apologize for asking a question that has almost certainly come up before. But it wasn't clear to me what search terms would find it.

In planning to make your money last long enough, how do you define "enough"? Your actuarial life expectancy? Family longevity history? A round 100?

I think this may be more indicative of my thinking that just the age I die. Here are my spending plans in retirement based on aging and death in percentages. So if the maximum gross I expected to spend in a given retirement year was $100,000 the years marked 83% I would be burning $83,000.


Plan Based on 3.3% return

Early retirement through 69: 100%
Age 70-78: 83%
Age 79-85: 75%
Beyond Age 85 DW is sole survivor: 67%


Plan Based on 3.% return

Early retirement through 69: 100%
Age 70-78: 91%
Age 79-85: 83%
Beyond Age 85 DW is sole survivor: 75%
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ribonucleic
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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by ribonucleic » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:07 am

manuvns wrote:101 like billionaire David Rockefeller
Over years of reading the Forbes 400 issue, I got the distinct impression that billionaires on average live considerably longer than the rest of us.

Unlimited access to medical care would be one explanation. "Can't take it with you" would be another. :wink:

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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by LadyGeek » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:39 am

This thread is now in the Personal Finance (Not Investing) forum (withdrawal strategy).
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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by carolinaman » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:58 am

My dad died at 73 and his father at 71, both from lung cancer. Both were smokers. I am age 72 and not a smoker and in very good health. So who knows when. I am ready when the Lord calls me home.

There seem to be 2 questions and people are answering one or the other. 1- when do you expect to die and 2- what death age have you built in to your retirement planning. IMO, we should plan to be around considerably longer than we expect to.

SS longevity calculator projects that age 65 male will live until 84; female will live to 86.7. I built age 95 into my plan for me and my wife. I hope we spend some of our kids inheritance.

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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by ruralavalon » Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:10 pm

carolinaman wrote:My dad died at 73 and his father at 71, both from lung cancer. Both were smokers. I am age 72 and not a smoker and in very good health. So who knows when. I am ready when the Lord calls me home.

There seem to be 2 questions and people are answering one or the other. 1- when do you expect to die and 2- what death age have you built in to your retirement planning. IMO, we should plan to be around considerably longer than we expect to.

SS longevity calculator projects that age 65 male will live until 84; female will live to 86.7. I built age 95 into my plan for me and my wife. I hope we spend some of our kids inheritance.
That's right. It's wise to plan for longer than you expect.
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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by susa » Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:13 pm

carolinaman wrote: I am ready when the Lord calls me home..
It appears you already are home, see Genesis 1:28 and Psalm 115:16 ;)

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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by Capsu78 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:08 pm

bowtie wrote:Somewhat related... I glanced at R. Edelman's latest book today off the shelf at Barnes and Noble....he claims that nursing homes will become obsolete .....he predicts longer and healthier lifespans but I didn't look any further to see just when he anticipates this to start. BT
You wouldn't know it by the number of nursing/ memorycare facilities going up in my area- we have 4 massive projects recently completed or under construction within 5 miles of my house.

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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by bowtie » Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:37 pm

I think his statement in the book was that 20 years from now no one will need them.

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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by Minot » Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:22 pm

tc101 wrote:I am now 67, happy and in good health. Ten to twelve years ago I spent a lot of time in nursing homes watching my parents and the other people there die slowly and miserably. I decided to make my own decision about when it was time to go, rather than just letting nature take it's course. My plan was to kill myself at about age 85.

Recently I started taking piano lessons. My teacher is 90. She is very happy. I like her a lot. Now my plan is to kill myself when I am 91.

Who knows. Plans could change again.
Best post. Thanks.

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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by Pigeon » Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:29 pm

bowtie wrote:I didn't want to read Mr. Edelman's book though I liked one of his older ones. So i only looked at a page or two and have heard him advertise it on radio. This one deals with advances in medical and tech fields and he claims I believe that thru these advances people will live longer and healthier lives like well past 100, and that people will not require nursing homes.
Given the prevalence of Alzheimer's and the lack of any genuinely effective treatment, I find this extremely hard to believe.

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Re: Planning to Die

Post by MikeMak27 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:41 pm

Taylor Larimore wrote:
You have to plan with something and I just don't see the point of planning with 100 or anything close. In the long-run we are all dead. I picked 80 for both spouse and I - I don't think either of us will get to that age.
I once felt the same but I am VERY glad that I planned to live longer.

Best wishes.
Taylor (age 93)
Congratulations and thank you Taylor for all you have done helping others with their financial planning! I wish you continued health and wellness for another 25 years!
Mac 4 fund portfolio: 45% US small cap value (IJS, VBR), 40% Emerging Markets (IEMG, VWO, FPMAX), 10% long term US treasuries (TLT), 5% US REITS (VNQ)

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Taylor Larimore
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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by Taylor Larimore » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:35 pm

MikeMak27:

Thank you.

Best wishes.
Taylor
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle

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Do I get to plan?

Post by FraggleRock » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:46 pm

Well, my parents are 94.5.
My mother has dementia.
My father is healthy.
I have told my daughter that there is good reason to live 2 blocks from a busy bus route.

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TheTimeLord
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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by TheTimeLord » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:01 pm

Minot wrote:
tc101 wrote:I am now 67, happy and in good health. Ten to twelve years ago I spent a lot of time in nursing homes watching my parents and the other people there die slowly and miserably. I decided to make my own decision about when it was time to go, rather than just letting nature take it's course. My plan was to kill myself at about age 85.

Recently I started taking piano lessons. My teacher is 90. She is very happy. I like her a lot. Now my plan is to kill myself when I am 91.

Who knows. Plans could change again.
Best post. Thanks.

It is important to remember skilled nursing facilities are the last stop after assisted living and independent living. While they are not for everyone there are many people who find the increased socialization and variety of activities rewarding plus maid service and dining halls.
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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by VictoriaF » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:12 pm

I am planning to die on April 1st of the year when I run out of money.

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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by Minot » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:29 pm

VictoriaF wrote:I am planning to die on April 1st of the year when I run out of money.

Victoria
Badaboom!!

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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by tc101 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:45 pm

It is important to remember skilled nursing facilities are the last stop after assisted living and independent living. While they are not for everyone there are many people who find the increased socialization and variety of activities rewarding plus maid service and dining halls.
I am sure there are people that enjoy nursing homes. I think I did see a few people who enjoyed being there. I saw a lot more who were pretty miserable. I won't write about the details, but it was sad and depressing and at times horrifying.
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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by cjking » Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:04 am

I plan to live to exactly my actuarial life-expectancy, currently 34 more years. "Plan" as in current life expectancy is the exact number of years I divide my money among, to calculate current years income. However I have a cap on withdrawals at just under 4% of initial balance, and an expected return on my asset allocation (mainly non-US equities) that is well above that, so my retirement simulations show there is a high probability that my investment balance will rise during retirement. I will review when life-expectancy is 15 years, and if at that point there is any doubt that the balance will fund me for the longest possible time, annuitise.

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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by midareff » Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:43 am

It's a great question.... my wife is 16 years younger than I am so I just plot the portfolio out to her 100th birthday. After that she can be a burden to the kids :oops:

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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by sschullo » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:19 am

Thesues wrote:Per my current projection I plan to die at 95. I run out of money then :)
I will have enough money to last for a long time. But getting there? I turn 70 soon, and I have already had cancer at 53. I am fine now, but don't know.
Public School K-12 Educators: "Ask NOT what your annuity sales person can do for you, ask what you can do to be a Do-It-Yourselfer (DIY)."

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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by Nova1967 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:19 am

Great question, I picked 82, based on most males in the family died in there 70s and lifestyle habits.
Goal is to die broke, if I go beyond estimated age their is SS and a Pension.
If I live into my 80s and 90s I don't anticipate being to active, although it would be nice to play golf

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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by Calygos » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:28 am

I'm going to live forever. So far, so good. Paging Dr. Aubrey de Grey...

Realistically, I don't plan on it but I expect it in my 80s if I'm lucky. Now I just need to figure out when I plan to live. :(

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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by mptfan » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:45 am

bligh wrote:The ideal goal should be for the portfolio to hit "escape velocity". ie. its returns outstrip your withdrawals.
I agree that should be a goal, but I do not plan for that condition to exist indefinitely. In other words, I do not plan for my portfolio to continue to grow after I retire for the remainder of my life, because that would mean I oversaved. I think it is reasonable at some point, maybe after 70?, to plan to slowly draw down the portfolio.

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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by nymeria.stark » Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:35 pm

aristotelian wrote:I don't plan to die so much as put my body in cryogenic storage, and upload my consciousness to a computer until the technology exists to repair my body. I am hoping my portfolio will be worth $16 trillion at that point. That is, if the economy as we know it still exists.
Your other option is just to get bitten by a vampire. You'll have to work for a little longer and build enough to live off the interest of your assets...but on the other hand, you'd be immortal, so what are a couple of decades in the grand scheme of things? :D
Just a girl, standing in front of her finances, asking them to make more sense.

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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by JohnFiscal » Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:58 pm

For retirement planning I check scenarios with a long life (and expenses to suit).

But I have also checked the effects of if I "die early". In this event there won't be my own SS to carry the costs of things, my spouse's portion of my pension will be reduced, etc. So, overall, income is reduced but then expenses are as well, too. But in my case my wife is sufficiently younger than me (11 years) so that I could see there was a problem if I died "early enough". Based on my analyses I then obtained a second term life policy to carry through for another 10 years.

So, really you need to check all cases...if you are concerned about anyone you're leaving behind.

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Re: When do you plan to die?

Post by chuckb84 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:20 pm

For planning purposes, I use 95. My grandfather died at 98, and my Dad is about to turn 92. My other grandparents lived into their late 80's and my Mom is now 89.

For keeping myself reminded of how important the time is, I keep a reminder notice on my computer that counts down "Days until I die". Currently at 10,129.

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