Bank of America bogus late payment fee.[temporary software glitch, gone now]

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Bank of America bogus late payment fee.[temporary software glitch, gone now]

Postby *3!4!/5! » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:27 pm

[update below]
-------------------------------------------------
[original message]
Facts:
I have a BoA credit card (actually a few).
I use BoA's own Bill Pay* to automatically pay the BoA credit card (from another bank).
This had been working fine, but this time
even though it says $X payment "Processed" on the BoA Bill Pay,
and the BoA credit card page has $X "pending payment",
and the $X hasn't been pulled from the other bank yet (but this timing is normal),
despite all this it now says "late fee for payment due" $25 added to account balance.

This hasn't happened before and it's not happening to my other BoA credit cards with the same payment setup.

What should I do. I know BoA has pretty poor software, and I vaguely recall something like this being a "known issue/glitch". Should I just wait to see if it resolves itself (after the weekend perhaps), or do I need act now.

I did have an earlier weird BoA experience where all the purchases in a new credit card were displayed online as cash advances, (and when I phoned a couple of BoA numbers but they were clueless) but then in the statement they were correctly coded as purchases.


* If you are wondering why you'd need any kind of "Bill Pay" to auto-pay a credit card from a checking account, you need to realize that the BoA setup is very bizarre. Unlike the credit cards I have at six other companies, you can NOT set up a BoA credit card to automatically pull a payment from a checking account. Instead the BoA credit card send an "e-Bill" to the BoA Bill Pay system, and then the BoA Bill Pay system processes the payment (or screws it up). Actually BoA has 2 separate Bill Pay systems, depending whether or not you have a BoA checking account. If you have one BoA Bill Pay system, and then you open a BoA checking account, then a new BoA Bill Pay system appears, and the old BoA Bill Pay system disappears into a black hole but may or may not continue to process payments, but you can no longer see/change it (you have to get BoA technical people to fix it eventually). So BoA software is in a shambles, so I'm not sure how to handle this bogus late payment fee as it may either self-resolve or else snowball.

-------------------------------------------------

ETA (update: the next morning, now Sunday): As I expected, this was a temporary software glitch, and the bogus "late payment fee" is gone now. I did nothing, just waited.

So they do indeed honor payments that are scheduled to be paid on time (i.e. making sure it works is on the payee, not the payer). If they didn't that would be a "major outrage", and CFPB complaint (or class action lawsuit) territory.

Instead, they merely had the "minor outrage" of temporarily displaying bogus "late payment fees". I didn't need to do anything with BoA. I just waited for it to resolve itself.

Thanks to those who confirmed that this is a known glitch that resolves itself (after a day or so) when BoA's archaic crappy software finally puts the pieces together.

I can continue with my very convenient setup of using auto-pay, pay on due date, payee pulls from my bank account - setup. BoA will ultimately process it correctly (they'd be in big trouble if they didn't), but occasionally, for a day or so, they may cry wolf with bogus "hey, you missed a payment, you deadbeat!"-messages, but I can safely ignore them, and they go away after a while.
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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.

Postby nisiprius » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:37 pm

So, did you call BoA? It won't solve the problem permanently but my life experience has been that most places will refund a late payment fee just because you ask, the first time. That is, if this is your first time, you can probably just call and say "I want a late payment fee refunded, because..." and there's a fair chance they will just do it without demanding documentation... not because they believe you, but because they will just do it once on a squeaking-wheel-gets-the-grease basis.

I can't vouch specifically for BoA, I've never dealt with them.
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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.

Postby cadreamer2015 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:44 pm

I always make electronic payments 5-7 days before the due date to avoid this potential hassle. As I recall, my bank (BofA) guarantees that payment will be received on time. If BofA will not waive the late fee for you, check with your bank that was making the payment to see if they will reimburse you.
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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.

Postby *3!4!/5! » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:50 pm

nisiprius wrote:So, did you call BoA? It won't solve the problem permanently but my life experience has been that most places will refund a late payment fee just because you ask, the first time. That is, if this is your first time, you can probably just call and say "I want a late payment fee refunded, because..." and there's a fair chance they will just do it without demanding documentation... not because they believe you, but because they will just do it once on a squeaking-wheel-gets-the-grease basis.

I can't vouch specifically for BoA, I've never dealt with them.


That kind of "solution" is totally unacceptable to me.

I'm hoping I can wait and see and this is a software glitch that disappears (as happened with the bogus "cash advance" coding).

If not, I'll insist that they acknowledge this is 100% their error, and that they need to figure out how to fix their problem which is their fault.

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.

Postby tfb » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:51 pm

*3!4!/5! wrote:Facts:
I have a BoA credit card (actually a few).
I use BoA's own Bill Pay* to automatically pay the BoA credit card (from another bank).
This had been working fine, but this time
even though it says $X payment "Processed" on the BoA Bill Pay,
and the BoA credit card page has $X "pending payment",
and the $X hasn't been pulled from the other bank yet (but this timing is normal),
despite all this it now says "late fee for payment due" $25 added to account balance.

This hasn't happened before and it's not happening to my other BoA credit cards with the same payment setup.

What should I do.

Simply don't cut it too close. Schedule it to pay a week before the actual due date. At low interest rate these days, float is worth nothing. From B of A help:

"To pay an e-Bill before the due date, specify a number of days in the Pay to arrive X days before due date dropdown menu. For example, if you want to pay your e-Bill 5 days before the due date, choose 5 from the dropdown menu."
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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.

Postby mpsz » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:54 pm

Agree that calling and asking nicely is the best way to go about it... if that doesn't work blame the software ("I've been using your e-billing for X years and it always worked..."). I've actually found their phone reps to be pretty friendly.

They used to have a site choosedirectdebit.bankofamerica.com that would let you set up automatic payments from a checking account at another bank (like it works with a real credit card company)... but, unsurprisingly, they have broken/discontinued this page. It now directs you to log into online banking and I can't find a way to set this up. :oops: Now I'm curious what this means for my own autopay...

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.

Postby *3!4!/5! » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:58 pm

cadreamer2015 wrote:I always make electronic payments 5-7 days before the due date to avoid this potential hassle. As I recall, my bank (BofA) guarantees that payment will be received on time. If BofA will not waive the late fee for you, check with your bank that was making the payment to see if they will reimburse you.


The point is it is a payment initiated by BoA to pay a BoA credit card. The standard practice (for many CC companies) is that you can schedule to pay on due date, and they are deemed to be on time, regardless of fund transit times. These are pull payments initiated on the credit card website, so the timing is totally under the control of the credit card company. The credit card company is essentially promising that such scheduled payments will be deemed to be on time, and their customers will be very annoyed if not.

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.

Postby indexfundfan » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:59 pm

*3!4!/5! wrote:
nisiprius wrote:So, did you call BoA? It won't solve the problem permanently but my life experience has been that most places will refund a late payment fee just because you ask, the first time. That is, if this is your first time, you can probably just call and say "I want a late payment fee refunded, because..." and there's a fair chance they will just do it without demanding documentation... not because they believe you, but because they will just do it once on a squeaking-wheel-gets-the-grease basis.

I can't vouch specifically for BoA, I've never dealt with them.


That kind of "solution" is totally unacceptable to me.

I'm hoping I can wait and see and this is a software glitch that disappears (as happened with the bogus "cash advance" coding).

If not, I'll insist that they acknowledge this is 100% their error, and that they need to figure out how to fix their problem which is their fault.

The first time I saw it happen, I just chatted with them and the rep removed the late fee without any fuss.

Nevertheless, I believe the late fee will be automatically removed when the payment is eventually credited on the due date after the overnight processing. But if you happen to look at the website on the due date itself, you would see a late fee (which will eventually be removed).

Still now I just schedule the pay date to be one day before the due date.
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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.

Postby CAsage » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:00 pm

Very odd. I have a BofA credit card, which I use frequently and pay via a "pull" from BofA out of my credit union checking account. I don't recall any difficulties in setting it up, they are certainly at separate institutions. Payments I submit from BofA (via "make payment" from "funding account") are credited the same day to my BofA Visa, and then generally get pulled out my credit union account one or two days later.

There is a separate Bill Pay option but it brings me to the same screen, which has entries for amount, date, account. Never an issue. Of course I also tend to pay well before the due date - but they credit it within one day (before the money actually transfers).

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.

Postby tfb » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:04 pm

mpsz wrote:They used to have a site choosedirectdebit.bankofamerica.com that would let you set up automatic payments from a checking account at another bank (like it works with a real credit card company)... but, unsurprisingly, they have broken/discontinued this page. It now directs you to log into online banking and I can't find a way to set this up. :oops: Now I'm curious what this means for my own autopay...

I signed up when they had the site. The autopays are still working like clockwork.
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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.

Postby uansari1 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:33 pm

One of many reasons I stick to credit unions. I've had a much better experience being a shareholder than a customer.

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.

Postby *3!4!/5! » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:38 pm

For now I'm going with "known software issue/glitch" that should hopefully resolve itself, maybe after some more processing by Monday, so I'll wait and see til then.

It appears that different pieces of BoA's software Rube Goldberg machine, don't properly communicate with each other, and they get these weird errors. Only a complete lunatic would intentionally set things up the way they have. It's totally crazy for them to involve their Bill Pay system in their automated credit card payment system.

If their own internal automated credit card payment system doesn't function properly, that's a game-changer for me.

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.

Postby *3!4!/5! » Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:50 pm

CAsage wrote:Very odd. I have a BofA credit card, which I use frequently and pay via a "pull" from BofA out of my credit union checking account. I don't recall any difficulties in setting it up, they are certainly at separate institutions. Payments I submit from BofA (via "make payment" from "funding account") are credited the same day to my BofA Visa, and then generally get pulled out my credit union account one or two days later.

There is a separate Bill Pay option but it brings me to the same screen, which has entries for amount, date, account. Never an issue. Of course I also tend to pay well before the due date - but they credit it within one day (before the money actually transfers).

Just checking, when you use "make payment" (as opposed to "Bill Pay" or "Transfer") you can pay from an external account, with a guaranteed crediting date, but you can only do one-off manual payments that way, is that right? So is it true that you you can't use "make payment" to permanently set up fully automated monthly payment of you BoA credit card?

tfb wrote:Simply don't cut it too close.
This type of automatic payment is supposed to have a guaranteed crediting date. This totally takes the whole timing issue out of the picture. There's no such thing as cutting it close in this kind of setup. Assuming the money is in the bank that I have permitted them to pull from, the payment is supposed to be deemed paid on time, 100% absolutely guaranteed, period. If I can't rely on that, I really can't deal with that payee.

But I'm still guessing that BoA various software fragments will have communicated with each other by Monday.

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.

Postby rgs92 » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:00 pm

Call BofA. There is some sort of secret way to shift from BillPay to a conventional credit card Autopay.
[Yes, it's that "e-bill" link, but it's still not intuitive and may require paper letters for enrollment, but that mess can be bypassed by a live person there during your help session that I mention below.]

They told me they have an "old system" and a "new system" and that these 2 systems are incompatible and cause errors like what you describe.

You need to get them to switch you away from that antiquated BillPay system to the new system.
[Yep, they are messed up.]

Ask for a billing specialist to straighten this out (and also ask them to drop the fee and the late payment nonsense).
Try to do this while you are logged on to your BofA account on a PC. Keep pinging the connection to keep it from timing out while you are doing this. They will walk you through this.

They ask you some info to make sure it's you, but that should not be a problem.

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.

Postby *3!4!/5! » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:15 pm

rgs92 wrote:Call BofA. There is some sort of secret way to shift from BillPay to a conventional credit card Autopay.
[Yes, it's that "e-bill" link, but it's still not intuitive and may require paper letters for enrollment, but that mess can be bypassed by a live person there during your help session that I mention below.]

They told me they have an "old system" and a "new system" and that these 2 systems are incompatible and cause errors like what you describe.

You need to get them to switch you away from that antiquated BillPay system to the new system.
[Yep, they are messed up.]

Ask for a billing specialist to straighten this out (and also ask them to drop the fee and the late payment nonsense).
Try to do this while you are logged on to your BofA account on a PC. Keep pinging the connection to keep it from timing out while you are doing this. They will walk you through this.

They ask you some info to make sure it's you, but that should not be a problem.


Thanks for that information, and thanks for confirming how messed up BoA's setup is.
It's a pity because I like their setup with Preferred Rewards which makes their credit cards pretty good.
I might have to live with their clunky software, but I wish they'd fix it.

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.

Postby tfb » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:50 pm

*3!4!/5! wrote:
tfb wrote:Simply don't cut it too close.
This type of automatic payment is supposed to have a guaranteed crediting date. This totally takes the whole timing issue out of the picture. There's no such thing as cutting it close in this kind of setup. Assuming the money is in the bank that I have permitted them to pull from, the payment is supposed to be deemed paid on time, 100% absolutely guaranteed, period. If I can't rely on that, I really can't deal with that payee.

Sure you can. Just set it up to pay a few days before the due date. Then you don't have to worry about it. By choosing the actual due date leaving no room you are cutting it too close.
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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.

Postby Tamarind » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:11 pm

Definitely call and alter your payment schedule/method to something that they will seem to be on time. I also have a BoA credit card which is auto-paid (not using bill pay) from a non-BoA checking account.

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.

Postby Gronnie » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:22 pm

tfb wrote:
*3!4!/5! wrote:
tfb wrote:Simply don't cut it too close.
This type of automatic payment is supposed to have a guaranteed crediting date. This totally takes the whole timing issue out of the picture. There's no such thing as cutting it close in this kind of setup. Assuming the money is in the bank that I have permitted them to pull from, the payment is supposed to be deemed paid on time, 100% absolutely guaranteed, period. If I can't rely on that, I really can't deal with that payee.

Sure you can. Just set it up to pay a few days before the due date. Then you don't have to worry about it. By choosing the actual due date leaving no room you are cutting it too close.


No, just no. This is 100% on BoA, and OP is right, there is no such thing as "too close". This is a pull, not a push.

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.

Postby fund » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:51 pm

Gronnie wrote:
tfb wrote:
*3!4!/5! wrote:
tfb wrote:Simply don't cut it too close.
This type of automatic payment is supposed to have a guaranteed crediting date. This totally takes the whole timing issue out of the picture. There's no such thing as cutting it close in this kind of setup. Assuming the money is in the bank that I have permitted them to pull from, the payment is supposed to be deemed paid on time, 100% absolutely guaranteed, period. If I can't rely on that, I really can't deal with that payee.

Sure you can. Just set it up to pay a few days before the due date. Then you don't have to worry about it. By choosing the actual due date leaving no room you are cutting it too close.


No, just no. This is 100% on BoA, and OP is right, there is no such thing as "too close". This is a pull, not a push.


While I understand and am sympathetic to the principle, is it worth all the time and aggravation and energy expenditure? I never wait until the actual due date to pay a bill for precisely this reason. If there's an issue, then I have some time - a buffer - in which I can work to resolve it without having to be concerned that I'm now beyond the due date. This way I'm never at the mercy of a CSR to waive a fee or adjust a date. Just seems like a safer approach. There are many things in life that are worth standing on principle about. I just can't see how this is one of them. Dial back the payment date by a few days and you'll be able to breathe a little easier and relax a little more without stressing yourself out. :beer

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.

Postby *3!4!/5! » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:57 pm

Gronnie wrote:
tfb wrote:
*3!4!/5! wrote:
tfb wrote:Simply don't cut it too close.

This type of automatic payment is supposed to have a guaranteed crediting date. This totally takes the whole timing issue out of the picture. There's no such thing as cutting it close in this kind of setup. Assuming the money is in the bank that I have permitted them to pull from, the payment is supposed to be deemed paid on time, 100% absolutely guaranteed, period. If I can't rely on that, I really can't deal with that payee.

Sure you can. Just set it up to pay a few days before the due date. Then you don't have to worry about it. By choosing the actual due date leaving no room you are cutting it too close.

No, just no. This is 100% on BoA, and OP is right, there is no such thing as "too close". This is a pull, not a push.

Right. There is just no way that "schedule an earlier payment" is a legitimate solution to this problem. I find the suggestion completely nonsensicle.

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.

Postby *3!4!/5! » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:15 pm

fund wrote:
Gronnie wrote:
tfb wrote:
*3!4!/5! wrote:
tfb wrote:Simply don't cut it too close.

This type of automatic payment is supposed to have a guaranteed crediting date. This totally takes the whole timing issue out of the picture. There's no such thing as cutting it close in this kind of setup. Assuming the money is in the bank that I have permitted them to pull from, the payment is supposed to be deemed paid on time, 100% absolutely guaranteed, period. If I can't rely on that, I really can't deal with that payee.

Sure you can. Just set it up to pay a few days before the due date. Then you don't have to worry about it. By choosing the actual due date leaving no room you are cutting it too close.

No, just no. This is 100% on BoA, and OP is right, there is no such thing as "too close". This is a pull, not a push.

While I understand and am sympathetic to the principle, is it worth all the time and aggravation and energy expenditure? I never wait until the actual due date to pay a bill for precisely this reason. If there's an issue, then I have some time - a buffer - in which I can work to resolve it without having to be concerned that I'm now beyond the due date. This way I'm never at the mercy of a CSR to waive a fee or adjust a date. Just seems like a safer approach. There are many things in life that are worth standing on principle about. I just can't see how this is one of them. Dial back the payment date by a few days and you'll be able to breathe a little easier and relax a little more without stressing yourself out.

I can see where some people are misunderstanding the mechanism. I'm not talking logging in barely before the deadline, to manually enter a one-off payment. I'm talking about setting up ongoing automatic payments, pulled from a bank account, meaning the payments could have been set up months or years ago. I remember setting up automatic payments for utilities bills in the 1990s. Though I've changed payment method a few times since then, if some payment got messed up now, would you seriously suggest that I cut it too close because I waited until 1996 to set up automatic payments. That's nuts. Once these things are set up they should just work. Period.

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.

Postby Bfwolf » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:51 am

*3!4!/5! wrote:I can see where some people are misunderstanding the mechanism. I'm not talking logging in barely before the deadline, to manually enter a one-off payment. I'm talking about setting up ongoing automatic payments, pulled from a bank account, meaning the payments could have been set up months or years ago. I remember setting up automatic payments for utilities bills in the 1990s. Though I've changed payment method a few times since then, if some payment got messed up now, would you seriously suggest that I cut it too close because I waited until 1996 to set up automatic payments. That's nuts. Once these things are set up they should just work. Period.


I don't think anybody is misunderstanding the mechanism. People are just giving you an easy solution (move the payment date forward a couple of days) that most reasonable people would consider good enough.

You, on the other hand, don't appear interested in finding something that works well enough. You want the BOA system to work how the system should work.

Getting BOA to change their systems seems like a gargantuan undertaking. If good enough is not good enough for you, then your best solution may be to take your business elsewhere.

But perhaps there is a way for you to fix this problem by calling BOA. Let us know how it goes if you decide to go down this route.

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.

Postby *3!4!/5! » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:05 am

Bfwolf wrote:
*3!4!/5! wrote:I can see where some people are misunderstanding the mechanism. I'm not talking logging in barely before the deadline, to manually enter a one-off payment. I'm talking about setting up ongoing automatic payments, pulled from a bank account, meaning the payments could have been set up months or years ago. I remember setting up automatic payments for utilities bills in the 1990s. Though I've changed payment method a few times since then, if some payment got messed up now, would you seriously suggest that I cut it too close because I waited until 1996 to set up automatic payments. That's nuts. Once these things are set up they should just work. Period.

I don't think anybody is misunderstanding the mechanism. People are just giving you an easy solution (move the payment date forward a couple of days) that most reasonable people would consider good enough.

You, on the other hand, don't appear interested in finding something that works well enough. You want the BOA system to work how the system should work.

Getting BOA to change their systems seems like a gargantuan undertaking. If good enough is not good enough for you, then your best solution may be to take your business elsewhere.

But perhaps there is a way for you to fix this problem by calling BOA. Let us know how it goes if you decide to go down this route.

What you are saying is akin to saying if you want to be sure the hotel honors your hotel reservation (that you booked last year), then you should arrive a week early. And then saying that most reasonable people would consider that good enough. It just seems to completely miss the issue.

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.

Postby *3!4!/5! » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:26 am

I'm still going with the temporary glitch theory, and will wait to see if it clears by itself on Monday.

Also I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions for what I should have done to have avoided my new credit card purchases displaying as cash advances in some (but not all) portions of the website (which also turned out to be glitches that self-resolved). It's basically the same type of problem. BoA software can be very glitchy and weird.

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.

Postby Bfwolf » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:34 am

*3!4!/5! wrote:
Bfwolf wrote:
*3!4!/5! wrote:I can see where some people are misunderstanding the mechanism. I'm not talking logging in barely before the deadline, to manually enter a one-off payment. I'm talking about setting up ongoing automatic payments, pulled from a bank account, meaning the payments could have been set up months or years ago. I remember setting up automatic payments for utilities bills in the 1990s. Though I've changed payment method a few times since then, if some payment got messed up now, would you seriously suggest that I cut it too close because I waited until 1996 to set up automatic payments. That's nuts. Once these things are set up they should just work. Period.

I don't think anybody is misunderstanding the mechanism. People are just giving you an easy solution (move the payment date forward a couple of days) that most reasonable people would consider good enough.

You, on the other hand, don't appear interested in finding something that works well enough. You want the BOA system to work how the system should work.

Getting BOA to change their systems seems like a gargantuan undertaking. If good enough is not good enough for you, then your best solution may be to take your business elsewhere.

But perhaps there is a way for you to fix this problem by calling BOA. Let us know how it goes if you decide to go down this route.

What you are saying is akin to saying if you want to be sure the hotel honors your hotel reservation (that you booked last year), then you should arrive a week early. And then saying that most reasonable people would consider that good enough. It just seems to completely miss the issue.


It's not akin to that at all. I can't believe I'm even seriously addressing this, but here goes.

One HAS to have their hotel reservation be held for a specific day--the day they'll be in town. This isn't a preference--it's a must have. On the other hand, you don't actually HAVE to have your payment occur on the due date. It's simply your preference. And most reasonable people, given the situation you face, would just move the payment date forward a couple of days. What's the difference? Interest rates are low--the float is negligible. Your preference for paying your bill on your due date vs a couple of days earlier just isn't worth fighting over, unless I'm missing something here.

But you don't seem interested in the practical solution. You want to rail against the injustice of BOA not doing things the right way. You're right, but so what? Being right and $0.99 will get you a pack of gum at the grocery.

So my initial suggestion stands. Accept the practical solution, take your business elsewhere, or fight the system and let us know it goes.

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.

Postby CAsage » Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:10 am

*3!4!/5! wrote: Just checking, when you use "make payment" (as opposed to "Bill Pay" or "Transfer") you can pay from an external account, with a guaranteed crediting date, but you can only do one-off manual payments that way, is that right? So is it true that you you can't use "make payment" to permanently set up fully automated monthly payment of you BoA credit card?


CASage again: My BofA account does permit me to schedule autopay on a designated date on a repeating basis. Lots of options on dates, and it's a pull from my checking account. I am thinking this whole thing is a tempest in a teapot, and it will self-correct. This is not rocket science, it's just book keeping transfer. Here is what the BofA site says:
"Once you have entered your U.S. checking and/or money market deposit account, you can change your account options and information on this page...The Auto Pay feature will remain enabled until manually cancelled. Important Reminder: To avoid late payment penalties, payments must be scheduled for no later than the Payment Due Date shown on each billing statement.

Payments to your credit card will not appear on your card account details immediately, but you'll receive credit for payments the same date they're submitted if scheduled for that day before 11:59 p.m. ET. Any associated fees and interest will be adjusted.

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.

Postby *3!4!/5! » Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:11 am

People who are suggesting make an earlier payment date, what do you say about the underlined part.
*3!4!/5! wrote:I'm still going with the temporary glitch theory, and will wait to see if it clears by itself on Monday.

Also I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions for what I should have done to have avoided my new credit card purchases displaying as cash advances in some (but not all) portions of the website (which also turned out to be glitches that self-resolved). It's basically the same type of problem. BoA software can be very glitchy and weird.


Or what should I have done when, for about a year, my TIAA-CREF account always showed a balance of $0.00 whenever I logged in. Should I have saved more? Would that have been the solution? No, it was some weird glitch, and I figured a sequence of clicks and reloads that would get me to a page with the real six-figure balance.

BoA's computer system is apparently fragmented and incoherent, and different fragments can display different versions of reality. Presumably the fragments are reconciled periodically. When I called BoA about the transactions displayed as cash advances on my credit card login, they said that their computer displayed them as purchases, and they couldn't even see what I was referring to. In other words different fragments of BoA's computer system were displaying different versions of reality. It's probably the same with this bogus "late payment". On the credit card page it says late payment fee $25 (though a different tab says $27), while the bill pay page says paid on the due date, i.e. paid and not late. I can see different versions of reality within parts of my login account, and if I were to waste my time calling BoA CSRs or tech people (which I won't), they'd probably see a bunch of other versions of reality. It will probably clear itself by Monday after the different fragments have communicated and reconciled.

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.

Postby *3!4!/5! » Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:20 am

CAsage wrote:
*3!4!/5! wrote: Just checking, when you use "make payment" (as opposed to "Bill Pay" or "Transfer") you can pay from an external account, with a guaranteed crediting date, but you can only do one-off manual payments that way, is that right? So is it true that you you can't use "make payment" to permanently set up fully automated monthly payment of you BoA credit card?


CASage again: My BofA account does permit me to schedule autopay on a designated date on a repeating basis. Lots of options on dates, and it's a pull from my checking account. I am thinking this whole thing is a tempest in a teapot, and it will self-correct. This is not rocket science, it's just book keeping transfer. Here is what the BofA site says:
"Once you have entered your U.S. checking and/or money market deposit account, you can change your account options and information on this page...The Auto Pay feature will remain enabled until manually cancelled. Important Reminder: To avoid late payment penalties, payments must be scheduled for no later than the Payment Due Date shown on each billing statement.

Payments to your credit card will not appear on your card account details immediately, but you'll receive credit for payments the same date they're submitted if scheduled for that day before 11:59 p.m. ET. Any associated fees and interest will be adjusted.


Ah, thanks. I think when they say "Any associated fees and interest will be adjusted." they must realize they have a problem that they should fix long term, rather than patching up the glitches after the fact. But thanks for confirming that when the dust settles, the final result is as it should be. I thought it would be like that. Annoying, but not worse.

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.

Postby *3!4!/5! » Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:35 am

Looking again, one page shows the balance reduced by the payment, but not increased by the penalty, whereas another page shows the balance increased by the penalty, but not reduced by the payment. I think this is just very sloppy software, but that it will sort itself out in a couple of days.

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.[temporary software glitch, gone now]

Postby *3!4!/5! » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:28 am

Update: (the next morning, now Sunday, didn't even need to wait til Monday): As I expected, this was a temporary software glitch, and the bogus "late payment fee" is gone now. I did nothing, just waited.

So they do indeed honor payments that are scheduled to be paid on time (i.e. making sure it works is on the payee, not the payer). If they didn't that would be a "major outrage", and CFPB complaint (or class action lawsuit) territory.

Instead, they merely had the "minor outrage" of temporarily displaying bogus "late payment fees". I didn't need to do anything with BoA. I just waited for it to resolve itself.

Thanks to those who confirmed that this is a known glitch that resolves itself (after a day or so) when BoA's archaic crappy software finally puts the pieces together.

I can continue with my very convenient setup of using auto-pay, pay on due date, payee pulls from my bank account - setup. BoA will ultimately process it correctly (they'd be in big trouble if they didn't), but occasionally, for a day or so, they may cry wolf with bogus "hey, you missed a payment, you deadbeat!"-messages, but I can safely ignore them, and they go away after a while.

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.[temporary software glitch, gone now]

Postby indexfundfan » Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:33 pm

*3!4!/5! wrote:Update: (the next morning, now Sunday, didn't even need to wait til Monday): As I expected, this was a temporary software glitch, and the bogus "late payment fee" is gone now. I did nothing, just waited.

So they do indeed honor payments that are scheduled to be paid on time (i.e. making sure it works is on the payee, not the payer). If they didn't that would be a "major outrage", and CFPB complaint (or class action lawsuit) territory.

Instead, they merely had the "minor outrage" of temporarily displaying bogus "late payment fees". I didn't need to do anything with BoA. I just waited for it to resolve itself.

Thanks to those who confirmed that this is a known glitch that resolves itself (after a day or so) when BoA's archaic crappy software finally puts the pieces together.

I can continue with my very convenient setup of using auto-pay, pay on due date, payee pulls from my bank account - setup. BoA will ultimately process it correctly (they'd be in big trouble if they didn't), but occasionally, for a day or so, they may cry wolf with bogus "hey, you missed a payment, you deadbeat!"-messages, but I can safely ignore them, and they go away after a while.

This validates my memory. I remember I used to schedule payment on the due date. I must have logon on one of the unlucky days and saw the late fees like you. This prompted me to schedule payments for a day before the due date. I never see the late fees again.
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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.[temporary software glitch, gone now]

Postby *3!4!/5! » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:26 pm

Now that I've seen this glitch in action, I can disregard it in the future, knowing that the processing is correct after the dust settles.

It's just like the glitch where a new BoA credit card may display purchases as cash advances, but this false alarm also disappears by the first statement. The 2nd time I saw this glitch I could safely ignore it. Similarly when my TIAA balance kept displaying $0.00 instead of $X00,000.

It's a question of knowing when it's just "cosmetic" misinformation, rather than a mistake with real financial consequences.

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.[temporary software glitch, gone now]

Postby gkaplan » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:40 pm

I don't know if this is relevant to this conversation, but I had my credit union pay my Bank of America credit card payment through its bill pay feature. The bill was due Saturday, April 1. My credit union sent the payment Thursday, March 25th, more than a week prior to its due date. As of several hours ago, three days after my credit union sent my payment, my Bank of America account still has not credited my account, nor does my account even show that my payment is pending.
Gordon

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.[temporary software glitch, gone now]

Postby *3!4!/5! » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:51 pm

gkaplan wrote:I don't know if this is relevant to this conversation, but I had my credit union pay my Bank of America credit card payment through its bill pay feature. The bill was due Saturday, April 1. My credit union sent the payment Thursday, March 25th, more than a week prior to its due date. As of several hours ago, three days after my credit union sent my payment, my Bank of America account still has not credited my account, nor does my account even show that my payment is pending.

That's actually a completely different situation. You're talking about a "push" whereas I was talking about a "pull". With a "push" you do take risk that payments may arrive late. With a "pull" you do take risk that someone may pull money out of your bank account that they shouldn't. There are plenty of "push versus pull" debates on the web.

I never ever "push". I also never ever use a "billpay" system, except that BoA has this bizarre system where their credit card autopay system uses their "billpay" system which is completely nuts.

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.[temporary software glitch, gone now]

Postby indexfundfan » Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:16 am

gkaplan wrote:I don't know if this is relevant to this conversation, but I had my credit union pay my Bank of America credit card payment through its bill pay feature. The bill was due Saturday, April 1. My credit union sent the payment Thursday, March 25th, more than a week prior to its due date. As of several hours ago, three days after my credit union sent my payment, my Bank of America account still has not credited my account, nor does my account even show that my payment is pending.

Do you know if the credit union is using a check payment?
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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.[temporary software glitch, gone now]

Postby gkaplan » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:51 pm

indexfundfan wrote:
gkaplan wrote:I don't know if this is relevant to this conversation, but I had my credit union pay my Bank of America credit card payment through its bill pay feature. The bill was due Saturday, April 1. My credit union sent the payment Thursday, March 25th, more than a week prior to its due date. As of several hours ago, three days after my credit union sent my payment, my Bank of America account still has not credited my account, nor does my account even show that my payment is pending.

Do you know if the credit union is using a check payment?


I have no idea. As an update, though, Bank of America now shows my payment as pending.
Gordon

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.[temporary software glitch, gone now]

Postby Palatineman » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:45 pm

OK - so here is something a little bit unrelated but it speaks to the large ORG failure which is BOA.

Last July 2016 I deposited $800 cash payment in a BOA drive thru ATM for my CC payment on a BOA card.

The ATM did some machine grinding and sent me back a receipt indicating that it could not process my transaction and to call a 1-800 number to talk through this disaster.

The ATM took my cash and the receipt did not indicate any amount involved.

So I of course called the 1-800 number immediately as was put on hold for 30 min and then disconnected,

This is just the beginning of my frustration, so forgive me for the long thread that is coming ahead.

The next morning, taking time away from my work which pays for my living, I walk into the branch who's ATM ate my money and presented them with the receipt.

I was greeted by do you have an appt. No, I have a problem that your institution needs to fix ASAP.

I explained the issue and was 20 min later greeted by a Branch manager, who told me she understood the issue and would get back to me within a week.

A week goes by - no answer. I call and ask what the situation is. They indicated that they have no record of the $800 deposit- but it is being investigated by her higher ups and will get back to me within another week.

Another week goes by - no response. I call again - I'm sorry it has been transposed to 2 other departments who apparently who will get back to us within a couple of weeks.

Another 2 weeks go by - yeah the other 2 departments indicated they would get back to me, but they didn't.

This is when my BP went up and I indicated that if this did not get resolved this week, I was going to file a police report with the local PD for theft by BOA.

Then I did to do some research on how to get this resolved and found the following website

https://www.helpwithmybank.gov/complain ... laint.html

Before I needed to do that the threat to BOA of filing the police report finally got my money back. But it took this kind of resolve and a lot of my summer hours to make this happen.

This should be shameful for an organization of this magnitude.

What is funny, is I now make my cash payments with them in person. The same Branch Manager which eventually resolved my issue, indicated that I could make my payments via ATM, the last time I made a payment in this branch.

I reminded her of who I was and our struggle together and she obviously had to eat her words.

So for those who are asking - the reason I continue with BOA is that I have a cash back card with the ability to pay the bill by cash, which has been my preferred method now due to ID theft which I have been a victim of.

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.[temporary software glitch, gone now]

Postby *3!4!/5! » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:20 pm

^^ That's bad. But there is absolutely no way I would deposit cash in an ATM. It's just a disaster waiting to happen.

I think my CC pull/auto-payment method is best. In the end, it worked exactly as it should except for spitting out temporary bogus messages.

Palatineman
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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.[temporary software glitch, gone now]

Postby Palatineman » Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:14 am

"^^ That's bad. But there is absolutely no way I would deposit cash in an ATM. It's just a disaster waiting to happen.

I think my CC pull/auto-payment method is best. In the end, it worked exactly as it should except for spitting out temporary bogus messages."

Yes - and the reason for my extended post was - lesson learned the hard way.

Reliable consumers like me and you should not have to face this kind of trouble for dealing with an institution of the scale to cause any sleepless nights.

Your splitting out temporary bogus messages should have never happened and caused you any time and associated grief.

We all understand that life is not perfect, but we should demand more for the time and intelligence that we spend to make our families survive and provide profit for these over-bloated and inept institutions - that should be doing their basic job!

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.[temporary software glitch, gone now]

Postby *3!4!/5! » Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:58 pm

Yes, the level of incompetence is mind boggling.

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.[temporary software glitch, gone now]

Postby MisterBill » Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:53 pm

I got hit with the late fee this month for an automatic payment that BofA was pulling from my bank. Fortunately, they must have noticed the problem and automatically credited back the late fee the same day. I got quite a shock when I saw the late fee at the top of the transactions, before looking slightly down the list and finding the credit!

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.[temporary software glitch, gone now]

Postby *3!4!/5! » Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:05 pm

MisterBill wrote:I got hit with the late fee this month for an automatic payment that BofA was pulling from my bank. Fortunately, they must have noticed the problem and automatically credited back the late fee the same day. I got quite a shock when I saw the late fee at the top of the transactions, before looking slightly down the list and finding the credit!
I think the whole process is software-driven, with really bad uncoordinated software, but this bogus fee disappears after a day or so when the various software fragments get caught up.

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.[temporary software glitch, gone now]

Postby MisterBill » Fri May 05, 2017 3:42 pm

Got hit with it again this month. Just hit today, and my payment is pending, so I'm not going to bother calling since I assume they will fix it.

I should probably change my autopay date to the day before it's due to avoid this. But obviously it should not be happening at all!

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.[temporary software glitch, gone now]

Postby *3!4!/5! » Fri May 05, 2017 4:19 pm

MisterBill wrote:Got hit with it again this month. Just hit today, and my payment is pending, so I'm not going to bother calling since I assume they will fix it.

I should probably change my autopay date to the day before it's due to avoid this. But obviously it should not be happening at all!


I had it happen again on a couple of accounts this month, but I ignored it. It's just cosmetic, and doesn't affect the underlying financial happenings. It's actually a real logistical hassle for me to make the payment earlier, but I just don't think I need to, so I won't.

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.[temporary software glitch, gone now]

Postby MisterBill » Fri May 05, 2017 4:49 pm

*3!4!/5! wrote:I had it happen again on a couple of accounts this month, but I ignored it. It's just cosmetic, and doesn't affect the underlying financial happenings. It's actually a real logistical hassle for me to make the payment earlier, but I just don't think I need to, so I won't.

Why is it a logistical hassle? Can't you just tell BofA to make the payment a day before it's due? I thought it was an option in Autopay setup, although I could be wrong.

Update: I was just able to change the payment date to one day before the due date on all of my cards.

Update 2: The late fee was credited back the same day it hit.

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.[temporary software glitch, gone now]

Postby *3!4!/5! » Fri May 19, 2017 6:51 pm

MisterBill wrote:
*3!4!/5! wrote:I had it happen again on a couple of accounts this month, but I ignored it. It's just cosmetic, and doesn't affect the underlying financial happenings. It's actually a real logistical hassle for me to make the payment earlier, but I just don't think I need to, so I won't.

Why is it a logistical hassle? Can't you just tell BofA to make the payment a day before it's due? I thought it was an option in Autopay setup, although I could be wrong.

Update: I was just able to change the payment date to one day before the due date on all of my cards.

Update 2: The late fee was credited back the same day it hit.


It is not convenient for me to pay before the due date, and there is no reason to do so.

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.

Postby Dottie57 » Fri May 19, 2017 7:40 pm

*3!4!/5! wrote:
nisiprius wrote:So, did you call BoA? It won't solve the problem permanently but my life experience has been that most places will refund a late payment fee just because you ask, the first time. That is, if this is your first time, you can probably just call and say "I want a late payment fee refunded, because..." and there's a fair chance they will just do it without demanding documentation... not because they believe you, but because they will just do it once on a squeaking-wheel-gets-the-grease basis.

I can't vouch specifically for BoA, I've never dealt with them.


That kind of "solution" is totally unacceptable to me.

I'm hoping I can wait and see and this is a software glitch that disappears (as happened with the bogus "cash advance" coding).

If not, I'll insist that they acknowledge this is 100% their error, and that they need to figure out how to fix their problem which is their fault.



That is going to be like getting the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man to do your biddig.

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.

Postby *3!4!/5! » Fri May 19, 2017 8:24 pm

Dottie57 wrote:
*3!4!/5! wrote:
nisiprius wrote:So, did you call BoA? It won't solve the problem permanently but my life experience has been that most places will refund a late payment fee just because you ask, the first time. That is, if this is your first time, you can probably just call and say "I want a late payment fee refunded, because..." and there's a fair chance they will just do it without demanding documentation... not because they believe you, but because they will just do it once on a squeaking-wheel-gets-the-grease basis.

I can't vouch specifically for BoA, I've never dealt with them.


That kind of "solution" is totally unacceptable to me.

I'm hoping I can wait and see and this is a software glitch that disappears (as happened with the bogus "cash advance" coding).

If not, I'll insist that they acknowledge this is 100% their error, and that they need to figure out how to fix their problem which is their fault.


That is going to be like getting the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man to do your biddig.


I don't understand the reference "getting the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man to do your biddig" but nevermind, doesn't matter, (and anyway, you were replying to a post from 2 months ago, and it very soon after turned out that there was no real problem, just a cosmetic software glitch that can be safely ignored).

sherwool
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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.[temporary software glitch, gone now]

Postby sherwool » Sat May 20, 2017 3:42 pm

I would like to chime in here even though it does not directly address your concern. But here is just one of my BoA "horror stories". One morning in Jan 2016, I went online to check a BoA credit card, where it noted a payment due, so I paid essentially the minimum amount due. The next month I got a late fee for not paying for January. Since I knew I had paid, I called to squawk.

Turns out, even though I had paid when my online account Indicated a payment was due, I had paid too early in the cycle (actually, before the monthly cycle began). So I had been credited with two payments for December 2015, but none for the month of January. I asked the phone rep to reverse my late fee; she explained she could not, and that I should have more closely observed the dates on my credit card cycle (had I paid for January a day later, the problem would not have occurred). Let me speak to you leader, please. To my astonishment, the supervisor also refused, telling me that was industry standard. As a test, I did the same thing on a Capital One credit card- paying the first day that my online account indicated a payment. Was due- had had no issue. I think the supervisor lied.

At that point I went to a BoA branch and spent over half an hour with the branch manager, making my irritation abundantly clear. I handed him a letter in which I threatened to write to regulatory authorities, and he assured me he would forward it to the appropriate consumer credit department. After due discussion with the credit card people, BoA agreed, on a "one time courtesy basis", to reverse my $25 late fee (the only such fee I had gotten in several years of holding the card). Despite what I was told was a legal requirement, I never received a response to my letter.

As far as I am concerned, BoA is a sleazebag organization. Nevertheless, I managed to get a certain revenge. I received a portion of an estate last year, all of the assets of which had been managed by Merril Lynch. Now not having any particular designs on the money, I would have been happy to have left it with ML to manage, at least until I retired. As it was, given my experience with the consumer side of BoA, I couldn't pull the money out of ML fast enough, and it now sits in a BDA retirement account at Fidelity.

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Re: Bank of America bogus late payment fee.[temporary software glitch, gone now]

Postby *3!4!/5! » Sat May 20, 2017 7:21 pm

@sherwool
I'm having trouble figuring out what happened in your credit card payment scenario. Could you spell out the exact timing so we can figure it out?


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