Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

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TheTimeLord
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Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by TheTimeLord »

This question has haunted me for about 4 years. I would review my balances, max out our 401Ks, contribute to taxable accounts, build a hefty emergency fund, we hit our number and yet it still never seemed like enough. Instead I would just set a new goal and keeping chasing. Well today I think I finally feel I have enough. How do I know, what changed? Every Saturday morning I get up, go to Starbucks for a venti latte and then sit at my desk and do my various tracks spreadsheets. After that I tend to read Bogleheads.org. I have enjoyed this routine for quite awhile. In fact I look forward to it as sort of my kickoff to the weekend as I sit upon my throne and survey my financial empire so to speak. Well today I decided to go for a walk instead, after which I still got my latte and I am here on Bogleheads.org but my tracking spreadsheet can wait, maybe tomorrow, not like the markets are open and the numbers will change and don't really care if my AA fluctuated by a tenth of a percent one way or another this past week. So I think I now feel I have enough because I don't any longer feel it is something I need to monitor closely or look to tweek in any way. Maybe this is just temporary and I will go back to the way I have been before but I don't think so. The feeling came over me last night when I was trying to figure out where the money was going to come from to pay this month's credit card bill, pay quarterly taxes, fund my Solo 401K, buy I-Bonds in May and purchase a new car for my DW (a retirement checklist item). As I was figuring it out and everything fell into place the last vestiges of my financial fretting just faded, I have enough.

I would be interested in hearing from other BH how their epiphany in regards to this topic came about.

And no this does not mean I am planning to retire any sooner than I was last week or the week before. Currently looking at a 10 month window in 2018. Also, I think I will start shopping for my next car (another retirement checklist item).
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David Jay
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by David Jay »

Congrats, I have been following your story over the last year or so.

I still have some uncertainties (future payouts based on employer stock valuations) but I should "be there" by summer of 2018. When I have living expenses from 62 to start of SS in a ST bond fund and 25x expenses after start of SS, I will pull the trigger (set my formal retirement date).
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by Sandtrap »

Congratulations "TimeLord". Always value your input and advice.
After selling my R/E holdings, DW and I realized that we could spend our annual income from a bed of cash until we die and do fairly okay with no debts and living our usual frugal ways. But, as lifetime business entrepreneurs, we don't "feel" like we have enough. No "yea I do".
Maybe I need to open a small laundromat, collect quarters every day, clean the filters, sweep the floors, talk to customers . . . . start all over again. (kidding). Retirement is certainly a new and unfamiliar world.
Thanks for starting a very interesting thread.
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ZenInvestor
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by ZenInvestor »

Congrats!

I am a ways away from retirement at 37, but I do know the feeling sort of... we purchased our home for cash. Initially i didnt feel different than when I paid rent or past mortgages. Then the mortgage bill didnt arrive. The next month, it didnt arrive again. And the next month... and next.. and next. Slowly i felt an unwinding. When life happened I wouldn't immediately go through my checklist of things I need to provide for my young family. Instead I acknowledged the possibility of bad times, but also knew we would always have a home and could afford food, heat, and emergency medical care. My stress decreased. With the decrease in my stress i had more joy in life and at work. Both have been to my benefit. I can imagine that i will have even more relief once I am in your position. My stress will melt totally away and ill forget to check a spreadsheet because I went for a walk.

Sounds nice.
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by The Wizard »

Realizing that you are FI and retiring are separate things. No reason to rush into retirement at the earliest opportunity, imo.

As far as an epiphany, nothing like that in my experience. When I retired four years ago, I set up cashflows so that my checking account got about the same net income each month as when I was full-time employed.
I hoped this would be enough and that Sequence of Returns wouldn't squash me too badly in the first few years.

So after a few years of no more employment income, a sort of gradually strengthening confirmation happened: that things are going OK. Actually, they are going very OK.

And in my case, I bought my new vehicle 2-1/2 years into retirement...
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TheTimeLord
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by TheTimeLord »

ZenInvestor wrote:Congrats!

I am a ways away from retirement at 37, but I do know the feeling sort of... we purchased our home for cash. Initially i didnt feel different than when I paid rent or past mortgages. Then the mortgage bill didnt arrive. The next month, it didnt arrive again. And the next month... and next.. and next. Slowly i felt an unwinding. When life happened I wouldn't immediately go through my checklist of things I need to provide for my young family. Instead I acknowledged the possibility of bad times, but also knew we would always have a home and could afford food, heat, and emergency medical care. My stress decreased. With the decrease in my stress i had more joy in life and at work. Both have been to my benefit. I can imagine that i will have even more relief once I am in your position. My stress will melt totally away and ill forget to check a spreadsheet because I went for a walk.

Sounds nice.
Absolute brilliant observation that I think goes unsaid far too often here. Often the less you need your paycheck the more you enjoy your work because there isn't a constant fear of losing that paycheck. I remember when the financial crisis hit and we were almost to the point of having our house paid off, it was quite a comfort to know we weren't going to be appearing in a news story about having a hugely underwater mortgage and locked in a debt trap. You truly are a ZenInvestor.
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by radiowave »

TheTimeLord

Well said. I appreciate you sharing your wisdom. I'll be there in a few years.
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by Dottie57 »

I have enough for retirement and between 65 and 70 when I take SS. I don't feel like I have enough between now (60) and 65 and enough for Roth conversion and health insurance. So continue to work. However I do feel much calmer when confronted with possibility of layoff ... which would s now looming for the division of the mega corp I work for.

I hope to be able to work the next 5 years and add 150k+ to investments.
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by Sherlock »

Funny you should open this discussion, today. Just before checking into bh this morning I checked my bank account and I'd received my monthly "paycheck" from Vanguard and I thought how much I enjoyed paying myself while in retirement.
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by David Scubadiver »

Feeling like you don't need to care is a bit subjective. Did you run the numbers thru the firecalc? :)
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PhysicianOnFIRE
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by PhysicianOnFIRE »

Congrats!

It's not always a number. I didn't feel any different when I had 25x. I'm starting to feel more comfortable that I've got enough to leave my career behind. The numbers make sense, and I'm realizing there are other ways to realize income on my own time without carrying a pager and showing up at 0600 every workday.

:beer
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by GerryL »

My epiphany came when I did an in-service transfer of most of my 401k to Vanguard IRA and had them help me with a financial plan. I had already spent plenty of time understanding my expenses and I had been running retirement planning scenarios in Quicken for years, so I wasn't too nervous about retiring a few more years out.

When I got the draft "plan" from Vanguard before my meeting with their CFP, I was gobsmacked. Looking at the worst-average-best case scenarios based on my assumptions and savings, the worst case scenario was that I would die at the age of 96 with almost as much in the bank as I had at retirement at 67. (The difference with the Quicken planner was that I had accidentally paid taxes twice, but even then I was okay.)

The realization that I was so much more than just ok was a little unsettling. A few days later I stopped at the grocery store for a few items. The cereal I wanted wasn't on sale, so I was going to wait. Then I told myself "Buy the dang cereal!"

I had no intention of retiring any sooner but when I got an offer to take "early" retirement (with a severance package) a year before the planned date, it was easy (with insight from Bogleheads) to take it. Have never looked back. And I am comfortable spending a bit more than I had originally planned.
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by whaleknives »

When my FIRECalc balances were all >0.
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by bostondan »

PhysicianOnFIRE wrote:Congrats!

It's not always a number. I didn't feel any different when I had 25x. I'm starting to feel more comfortable that I've got enough to leave my career behind. The numbers make sense, and I'm realizing there are other ways to realize income on my own time without carrying a pager and showing up at 0600 every workday.

:beer
-PoF
Now that I have >30x expenses, I have actually started to work harder. I also have made an effort to plan more vacations and will continue to do so. I initially thought it would make me want to retire, but instead it just makes me feel less stressed about being at work. Now I feel like I'm doing it because I want to, rather than because I need the money. Nothing has changed, since I never needed more than my income previously, but it feels different.

I also chose to go back to fellowship for cardiology, starting this July. I would not have done that otherwise. Having this money made me realize I should choose my field based purely on what I want to do with my life and not just what is optimal financially.

I'm still looking for something non-medical to do with my life. I'd love to write or do something else creative, but I haven't found my niche yet. I need to look into it more.
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Just sayin...
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by Just sayin... »

Amazingly similar experiences here. As I type this, I am sitting in my local Starbucks enjoying a cuppa and reading Bogleheads, also having skipped reviewing my spreadsheets (I've forced myself to limit my reviews to 1x/mo.).

I came to the realization that I was good-to-go around my birthday in October last year, but decided to delay my departure 'till June 30 because of a couple commitments at work. I'm still saving, but am considering the majority of extra funds as "lifestyle enhancement" savings. My epiphany came after a full, independent review by a financial advisor in addition to achieving 100% likelihood of success on all the tools I ran, along with calculating a sub 3% SWR (thanks to the people here for helping me to figure out the details). The result of all this has been a marked reduction in one type of stress I've been experiencing. June 30th can't come soon enough...
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by yellowgirl »

Off topic but why do people sit at Starbucks? You don't have internet at home?
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by Loik098 »

yellowgirl wrote:Off topic but why do people sit at Starbucks? You don't have internet at home?
Congrats to the OP!

Probably the same reason retirees sit at McDonalds. So they don't feel like they're just sitting at home.
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by Barefootgirl »

I would be interested in hearing from other BH how their epiphany in regards to this topic came about.
When I realized the pain of possibly making a mistake about the timing of my retirement was less of a concern for me than not knowing how many years I would have left to enjoy that retirement.
Last edited by Barefootgirl on Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by Sunflower »

TheTimeLord wrote:Every Saturday morning I get up, go to Starbucks for a venti latte ... after which I still got my latte ...
Well, yeah, but think how much you'd have if you didn't go to Starbucks!! I kid. I kid. Just had to throw that at you. I also sit in a cafe and read this site (not Starbucks, there's just too much noise and foot traffic for my comfort). Now with me, I've never had a set number and feel there are too many what ifs. Complicating the issue is I don't own a home so I'm not sure I'll ever "have enough," whatever that means. I'm doing ok, very well in my mind, but still worry and constantly bring out the spreadsheets and calculators. Maybe I'll never know if it'll be enough and maybe that's how real life is - not the average Boglehead confidence! But I congratulate you on your successful journey!
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by travellight »

I didn't have one particular moment but I think it has gradually dawned on me with the calculations that we do here. I have to thank this place for that comfort.
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by GoldenFinch »

yellowgirl wrote:Off topic but why do people sit at Starbucks? You don't have internet at home?
I think it's a "being around fellow humans" thing. :happy

TimeLord, I think it's great that you are comfortable with where you are with your finances. I have recently had a similar experience, but for different reasons. I have been monitoring our finances very closely for the last few years and recently pulled back a bit (on the monitoring). I actually quit looking altogether after looking almost every day. I stopped for two main reasons: 1) I thought it was maybe overkill, and 2) I was getting the feeling that the money had only really been growing at an exponential pace for so long that maybe I wouldn't like it when it went into a normal cycle of retreat. :D

I don't know that it will retreat, reduce or contract, but I don't feel like watching if it does. Since I decided it won't bother me if it does, and actually will be good in many respects as we are still in accumulation mode, why bother looking? So I quit. We are ahead of schedule and I am moving on. (I feel like I have this part of life taken care of.)
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by Meg77 »

I don't think I'll ever quit enjoying an update to my spreadsheets, but it's slowly dawning on me that I probably don't have to worry much about money (whether I will or not is to be determined). I compulsively update my net worth spreadsheet much more often than monthly, and it's been very depressing for me this month to know that I'll be suffering several declines in net worth. I'm quitting my job, and even though I'll be paid more going forward, in the short term I'm losing some unvested RSUs and some unvested 401k matches.

Then I found out one of my rental properties - one I've been thinking of selling for 8 months - suddenly requires a $30,000 plumbing project (the 60 yr old metal pipes are corroded to the point of requiring replacement via tunneling under the property). I was literally in tears whenever I talked about it for 48 hours upon learning this news. On top of the other asset losses this month, I'll have to deduct $30K from rental reserves at some point soon.

Days later I realized I could/should increase the listed value on that rental by $30K on my net worth statement, since I list the total cost not actual market value. I list RE at cost, and I only increase it when I do big renovations or capital improvements, which technically a new plumbing system is. Crazily (is that a word?) this instantly made me feel better. Moving $30K from rental reserves to rental real estate value on my net worth statement has no net impact on my net worth, technically speaking as I track it.

Realizing that this simple accounting trick took the sting out of writing a $30K check that I could have theoretically avoided makes me realize what a crazy monopoly game my finances really are. None of my net worth fluctuations actually matter or will change my lifestyle or choices at this point. I still might obsess about the details, but it's all literally in my head.
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by Dottie57 »

yellowgirl wrote:Off topic but why do people sit at Starbucks? You don't have internet at home?

Change of scenery. Also the coffee place I go to is like my "Cheers".
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by Just sayin... »

yellowgirl wrote:Off topic but why do people sit at Starbucks? You don't have internet at home?
For me, it beats sitting in a bar at 8AM. :sharebeer
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by travellight »

Meg77 wrote:I don't think I'll ever quit enjoying an update to my spreadsheets, but it's slowly dawning on me that I probably don't have to worry much about money (whether I will or not is to be determined). I compulsively update my net worth spreadsheet much more often than monthly, and it's been very depressing for me this month to know that I'll be suffering several declines in net worth. I'm quitting my job, and even though I'll be paid more going forward, in the short term I'm losing some unvested RSUs and some unvested 401k matches.

Then I found out one of my rental properties - one I've been thinking of selling for 8 months - suddenly requires a $30,000 plumbing project (the 60 yr old metal pipes are corroded to the point of requiring replacement via tunneling under the property). I was literally in tears whenever I talked about it for 48 hours upon learning this news. On top of the other asset losses this month, I'll have to deduct $30K from rental reserves at some point soon.

Days later I realized I could/should increase the listed value on that rental by $30K on my net worth statement, since I list the total cost not actual market value. I list RE at cost, and I only increase it when I do big renovations or capital improvements, which technically a new plumbing system is. Crazily (is that a word?) this instantly made me feel better. Moving $30K from rental reserves to rental real estate value on my net worth statement has no net impact on my net worth, technically speaking as I track it.

Realizing that this simple accounting trick took the sting out of writing a $30K check that I could have theoretically avoided makes me realize what a crazy monopoly game my finances really are. None of my net worth fluctuations actually matter or will change my lifestyle or choices at this point. I still might obsess about the details, but it's all literally in my head.
So sorry to hear of the big ticket item bill on the rental property, Meg! I am replacing a flat roof which seemed like a big deal but it's not 30k big.
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by abonder »

Just sayin... wrote:
yellowgirl wrote:Off topic but why do people sit at Starbucks? You don't have internet at home?
For me, it beats sitting in a bar at 8AM. :sharebeer
Enjoyed this!
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by basspond »

I experienced my epiphany in my early 20's. I knew if I saved as much as I could and invested wisely, I could retire in my fifties.
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by SGM »

I have been retired for 2 1/2 years, converted all tIRAs to Roth accounts, and am delaying SS until 70 and still my portfolio rises in value. That doesn't rise to the level of an epiphany, but it feels good. 8-)
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by harvestbook »

The good feeling is only good until the next correction! We live a frugal life with no debt, I am self-employed in an artistic field earning six figures (that could easily dry up at some point), and we plan our future on both ends--not only how much money we might need but also which costs we could cut if necessary. My tax refund this year is larger than my annual take-home pay in my former life as a journalist. I'll still live the artistic life even if it all vanishes and will make adjustments accordingly. Money is fun and security is nice but I don't want to miss my life because of it. Now, if only I had a crystal ball for the health industry landscape...that's our biggest cost and biggest worry, even though both of us are blessed with good health.
I'm not smart enough to know, and I can't afford to guess.
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by spammagnet »

TheTimeLord wrote:... So I think I now feel I have enough because I don't any longer feel it is something I need to monitor closely or look to tweek in any way. ... the last vestiges of my financial fretting just faded, I have enough.
Congratulations on achieving financial confidence. I look forward to that feeling. I know I'm not too far away but no amount of tweaking will change the fact that I'm not there yet. I simply have to keep working for a couple of years while maximizing my savings.
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by rikki »

Thoughtful posts! And an interesting question.

For me, the realization of "enough" came when I received a small inheritance last year, and realized I did not need the money. It felt good to divide the windfall to my children, charities I support, and in the creation of a bursary fund (scholarship) at my med school alma mater in Montreal. It was a good exercise for me to feel expansive about money and it brought satisfaction.
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TheTimeLord
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by TheTimeLord »

GoldenFinch wrote:
yellowgirl wrote:Off topic but why do people sit at Starbucks? You don't have internet at home?
I think it's a "being around fellow humans" thing. :happy
+1
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TheTimeLord
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by TheTimeLord »

David Scubadiver wrote:Feeling like you don't need to care is a bit subjective. Did you run the numbers thru the firecalc? :)

Nope, haven't bothered with firecalc in probably a year. I update the tool in Fidelity periodically but given the spending profile I believe I will follow in retirement I just stick with the a pretty simple spreadsheet I put together since I haven't found an easily used tool that really supports early retirement and the barbell spending profile.
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TheTimeLord
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by TheTimeLord »

harvestbook wrote:The good feeling is only good until the next correction!
Now why would you say that?
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by sambb »

It is much easier to think one has enough, when the market is at a multiyear high after a long bullrun. I wonder if people would feel the same way if the dow was down 30%-40% from current highs, and in a bear market. With housing prices down, etc.
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by TheTimeLord »

sambb wrote:It is much easier to think one has enough, when the market is at a multiyear high after a long bullrun. I wonder if people would feel the same way if the dow was down 30%-40% from current highs, and in a bear market. With housing prices down, etc.
More Boglehead optimism? Or are you just suggesting people aren't managing their risk properly and experiencing a false sense of euphoria. Personally I would near describe the mood on Bogleheads.org as euphoric.
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by hoops777 »

Up to the age of 42 I never had any assets and lived month to month.My family was at the very bottom rung of middle class growing up all the way until I left home.Now at 65 I honestly have a difficult time believing that I have enough but I know that I do.I tell myself you have a paid off home in the Bay Area and no debt.In addition to that,when I also realized that we could pretty much get by living our normal life just on SS,without our investments if we both wait until 70,it really sunk in.My issue now is that I feel such a need to protect what we have that I am too conservative but I am very much ok with it :D
I own a very small business that I started 23 years ago and will probably work 5 more years and I will never forget the financially struggling main portion of my life.
Last edited by hoops777 on Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by tibbitts »

Meg77 wrote:I don't think I'll ever quit enjoying an update to my spreadsheets, but it's slowly dawning on me that I probably don't have to worry much about money (whether I will or not is to be determined). I compulsively update my net worth spreadsheet much more often than monthly, and it's been very depressing for me this month to know that I'll be suffering several declines in net worth. I'm quitting my job, and even though I'll be paid more going forward, in the short term I'm losing some unvested RSUs and some unvested 401k matches.

Then I found out one of my rental properties - one I've been thinking of selling for 8 months - suddenly requires a $30,000 plumbing project (the 60 yr old metal pipes are corroded to the point of requiring replacement via tunneling under the property). I was literally in tears whenever I talked about it for 48 hours upon learning this news. On top of the other asset losses this month, I'll have to deduct $30K from rental reserves at some point soon.

Days later I realized I could/should increase the listed value on that rental by $30K on my net worth statement, since I list the total cost not actual market value. I list RE at cost, and I only increase it when I do big renovations or capital improvements, which technically a new plumbing system is. Crazily (is that a word?) this instantly made me feel better. Moving $30K from rental reserves to rental real estate value on my net worth statement has no net impact on my net worth, technically speaking as I track it.

Realizing that this simple accounting trick took the sting out of writing a $30K check that I could have theoretically avoided makes me realize what a crazy monopoly game my finances really are. None of my net worth fluctuations actually matter or will change my lifestyle or choices at this point. I still might obsess about the details, but it's all literally in my head.
I don't understand why you're feeling better. It seems to me that this is a serious setback. I did something stupid last week and didn't buy a vacation I wanted when it went on sale for $800 off, and now it's back up by $800 and I feel bad about that. I'd feel much worse if I hadn't sold a property when I should have and then had to throw $30k at it that maybe raised its value by $4.52 on a good day. And it wouldn't make me feel better no matter what that did to my taxes.
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Meg77
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by Meg77 »

tibbitts wrote:
Meg77 wrote:I don't think I'll ever quit enjoying an update to my spreadsheets, but it's slowly dawning on me that I probably don't have to worry much about money (whether I will or not is to be determined). I compulsively update my net worth spreadsheet much more often than monthly, and it's been very depressing for me this month to know that I'll be suffering several declines in net worth. I'm quitting my job, and even though I'll be paid more going forward, in the short term I'm losing some unvested RSUs and some unvested 401k matches.

Then I found out one of my rental properties - one I've been thinking of selling for 8 months - suddenly requires a $30,000 plumbing project (the 60 yr old metal pipes are corroded to the point of requiring replacement via tunneling under the property). I was literally in tears whenever I talked about it for 48 hours upon learning this news. On top of the other asset losses this month, I'll have to deduct $30K from rental reserves at some point soon.

Days later I realized I could/should increase the listed value on that rental by $30K on my net worth statement, since I list the total cost not actual market value. I list RE at cost, and I only increase it when I do big renovations or capital improvements, which technically a new plumbing system is. Crazily (is that a word?) this instantly made me feel better. Moving $30K from rental reserves to rental real estate value on my net worth statement has no net impact on my net worth, technically speaking as I track it.

Realizing that this simple accounting trick took the sting out of writing a $30K check that I could have theoretically avoided makes me realize what a crazy monopoly game my finances really are. None of my net worth fluctuations actually matter or will change my lifestyle or choices at this point. I still might obsess about the details, but it's all literally in my head.
I don't understand why you're feeling better. It seems to me that this is a serious setback. I did something stupid last week and didn't buy a vacation I wanted when it went on sale for $800 off, and now it's back up by $800 and I feel bad about that. I'd feel much worse if I hadn't sold a property when I should have and then had to throw $30k at it that maybe raised its value by $4.52 on a good day. And it wouldn't make me feel better no matter what that did to my taxes.
Oh don't get me wrong I am still very upset about it! I keep waking up around 3am thinking about it. And yes I realize it's not rational that it makes me feel a little bit better to not have to recognize the hit on my net worth statement (in truth my net worth IS reducing by $30k because this project will not increase resale value at all). This just goes to show that I am too wrapped up in my spreadsheets I guess.
"An investment in knowledge pays the best interest." - Benjamin Franklin
protagonist
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by protagonist »

When I realized that the difference between the amount I spend annually and what I will collect in SS when I turn 70 is very small compared with the amount I have in conservative investments (which should keep up with inflation or at least come very close), divided by my reasonably longest lifespan in years. That does not count stocks. Nobody is 100% secure, but I am secure enough to not lose sleep worrying about it.

As for Firecalc, etc.....I would be cautious of making assumptions using a century or so of past data to convince yourself that the stock market could not possibly suffer a sustained loss of greater than 50%, or even 75% or more, that will outlast your retirement, simply because it has not happened in relatively recent history, especially if you are talking about future decades. I have no faith in such simulations. Because that is what they require....faith, not science.
Malinois000
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by Malinois000 »

I'm 56 and my wife is 54 and I plan to retire in four years. I, as you stated, spend every Saturday morning with a cup of coffee reviewing our financial plans. I am borderline obsessed with this next phase of our lives and could so identify with your post. Good luck!
Barefootgirl
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by Barefootgirl »

This just goes to show that I am too wrapped up in my spreadsheets I guess.
When I read the earlier post, I was thinking about a pre-occupation with things we can control vs. what we can't and often that we're too hard on ourselves.

It is all pyschological IMO and quite relative and as we often mention here, spending time here leads to skewed perceptions.

I have done the same (allowed myself to feel regrets), but try to keep a mindfulness about it. Personally, from what you've written in the past, sounds like you are in a great position.
How many retired people does it take to screw in a lightbulb? Only one, but he takes all day.
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burt
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by burt »

At age 50 I set a goal to retire at age 60, hell or high water.
If that meant reducing my standard of living... so be it.
I met my goal, and am very fortunate to maintain my working standard of living.

burt
Dandy
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by Dandy »

That's a good feeling. My good feeling came a few years ago when I followed Dr. Bernstein's advice of having 20+ years in safe investments and the excess anyway you want. When I made the changes and saw excess was substantial and that I now had a pretty safe funding of my retirement I changed from think to "know".
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randomizer
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by randomizer »

Surprising to read so many "I'm no longer worried about money" posts, as somebody who never stops worrying about it. All of my forecasts suggest I'll never hit "my number", so I'm anticipating having to make lifestyle cuts. Hopefully nothing too egregious. I want to be "comfortable" and not subsisting; feeling like I have an abundance just doesn't seem to be in the cards, unless a windfall hits me out of nowhere.
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Barefootgirl
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by Barefootgirl »

My good feeling came a few years ago when I followed Dr. Bernstein's advice of having 20+ years in safe investments
Would you mind defining safe investments here in the thread? Otherwise, I have to search through this books ;)
How many retired people does it take to screw in a lightbulb? Only one, but he takes all day.
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TheTimeLord
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by TheTimeLord »

Dandy wrote:That's a good feeling. My good feeling came a few years ago when I followed Dr. Bernstein's advice of having 20+ years in safe investments and the excess anyway you want. When I made the changes and saw excess was substantial and that I now had a pretty safe funding of my retirement I changed from think to "know".
I definitely relate. Part of it is having the 10+ years until FRA fully covered by very safe investments and yeah the amount left over is still substantial plus after I reach FRA then SS and pensions kick in. The power of the safe investments is very similar to the feeling I have from having a paid off house. And with both of us planning to work awhile longer it seems like it will just get more secure.
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. | Run, You Clever Boy! [9085]
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cfs
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by cfs »

Barefootgirl wrote:Would you mind defining safe investments here in the thread? Otherwise, I have to search through this books ;)
Very easy to follow. Here is an article from Doctor Bernstein explaining the LMP and RP [liability matching portfolio, and risk portfolio].

How to Think About Risk in Retirement: https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-to-thi ... 1417408070

Thanks for reading ~cfs~
~ Member of the Active Retired Force since 2014 ~
paper200
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by paper200 »

by TheTimeLord » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:41 am
This question has haunted me for about 4 years. I would review my balances, max out our 401Ks, contribute to taxable accounts, build a hefty emergency fund, we hit our number and yet it still never seemed like enough. Instead I would just set a new goal and keeping chasing. Well today I think I finally feel I have enough. How do I know, what changed? Every Saturday morning I get up, go to Starbucks for a venti latte and then sit at my desk and do my various tracks spreadsheets. After that I tend to read Bogleheads.org. I have enjoyed this routine for quite awhile. In fact I look forward to it as sort of my kickoff to the weekend as I sit upon my throne and survey my financial empire so to speak. Well today I decided to go for a walk instead, after which I still got my latte and I am here on Bogleheads.org but my tracking spreadsheet can wait, maybe tomorrow, not like the markets are open and the numbers will change and don't really care if my AA fluctuated by a tenth of a percent one way or another this past week. So I think I now feel I have enough because I don't any longer feel it is something I need to monitor closely or look to tweek in any way. Maybe this is just temporary and I will go back to the way I have been before but I don't think so. The feeling came over me last night when I was trying to figure out where the money was going to come from to pay this month's credit card bill, pay quarterly taxes, fund my Solo 401K, buy I-Bonds in May and purchase a new car for my DW (a retirement checklist item). As I was figuring it out and everything fell into place the last vestiges of my financial fretting just faded, I have enough.
A very similar epiphany I had over this weekend and was discussing with DW over dinner an hour back! But you said it better than I could have. Last two weeks stopped going over the near perfect spreadsheet I had constructed last summer based on author(s) inputs from this forum. Reduced the frequency of reading posts here in this wonderful forum drastically.

As I work in a regulated environment, planning to think about "work" on a day to day basis instead of agonizing the possibility of decision error(s) or mistake(s) over longer term. Last three years, I "Work" more so for the challenge and interest than pay. Have not asked for a pay raise in a long time. Now I am going to do the same for personal investment - have reasonably enough - covers basic needs as wants are minimum. I hope that I will be able to continue with this new state of mind for many years to come.
Having freedom, food and roof is being 90% lucky in life and so is index investing. So, don't let the remaining 10% bother you.
David Scubadiver
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Re: Do you have enough? How I realized yeah I do.

Post by David Scubadiver »

protagonist wrote:
As for Firecalc, etc.....I would be cautious of making assumptions using a century or so of past data to convince yourself that the stock market could not possibly suffer a sustained loss of greater than 50%, or even 75% or more, that will outlast your retirement, simply because it has not happened in relatively recent history, especially if you are talking about future decades. I have no faith in such simulations. Because that is what they require....faith, not science.
If you run the numbers and it shows you have an 80% chance of failing, you might do well to assume that you won't have enough. Though, just because markets have an average return of x% over the past 100 years may not mean hey won't be at 10x% when I retire.
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