Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

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stimulacra
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Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby stimulacra » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:27 am

A Six-Figure Income May Not Shield You From a Shock
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Wings5
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby Wings5 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:54 am

I'm curious how many months of expenses the average Boglehead keeps in an emergency fund, and where they keep it. We have five months earmarked within a Roth IRA plus two months earmarked in a high yield savings account; we add to the savings account bucket each month.

RoadHouseFan
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby RoadHouseFan » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:04 am

36+ months of expenses

sawhorse
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby sawhorse » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:06 am

Wings5 wrote:I'm curious how many months of expenses the average Boglehead keeps in an emergency fund, and where they keep it.


Here's a good recent thread on this.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=213033

orca91
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby orca91 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:07 am

Think they maybe could have rounded up to $14k... $13,800... really?! Too ugly of a number for me. :happy

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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby Rainmaker41 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:17 am

orca91 wrote:Think they maybe could have rounded up to $14k... $13,800... really?! Too ugly of a number for me. :happy


In my case, I round that number up to $15k which is even less ugly than $14k. Of course, as inflation erodes the $15k reserve, it will have to be increased, such that a few years from now I'll 'have to' round it up again to $20k.

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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby Grt2bOutdoors » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:39 am

RoadHouseFan wrote:36+ months of expenses


+1
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Palatineman
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby Palatineman » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:36 pm

I have 1 year's worth in a 1 percent Savings account. Everyone seems to underestimate what it would be to get by (mentally and physically), if it hits the fan and you lose your cash flow.

It happened to me in 2009 - 6 months - no income!

I had saved a year's worth, by happenstance, with no plan in mind at the time.

I am lucky I survived paying all of my bills and some peace of mind in the unknown future duration, which I thought at the time was devastating.

Anyone can become homeless very quickly, if the market crashes and you don't have adequate cash flow or if you become disabled and not have appropriate insurance.

I have also, over the year's accumulated over 100K in credit card access. Do I use it and carry a balance - NO.

I pay it off every month, before they can charge me interest and I know if I am jobless, I can still access this without them knowing about it- TO SURVIVE, if needed!

CASH IS KING, if anyone tells you otherwise, they have been fortunate not to have dealt with life's ups and downs or they are a financial analyst you are paying to tell you lies, so you can sleep at night and wake up in a nightmare when any of these events can happen. I can promise you this -frantic phone calls will not be returned when it hits the fan.

Strategies to survive a downturn while balancing an ROI on investments is something nobody will ever get right. It is of course an individual feel (notice I said feel versus logic), which will get you through another day you can hopefully enjoy!

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tennisplyr
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby tennisplyr » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:40 pm

Really, how could you guesstimate without knowing one's expenses?
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fposte
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby fposte » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:25 pm

For me, one of the joys of getting to "enough" is that I don't really feel I need an emergency fund per se. I just had an emergency sewer line break that'll end up being over $12k to deal with. That'll get covered by selling funds from the taxable account.

The advantage of having space on the credit cards is that I think I'm not likely to hit many situations where I need a great deal of emergency cash, and I can arrange other funds to be available by the time I need to pay the card.

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telemark
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby telemark » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:49 pm

I have one year's salary, before taxes, divided between series I bonds and a savings account. Too much by rational calculation, but I am not a rational being and it brings me peace of mind.

My biggest unexpected expense, so far, has been $90,000 for surgery. Fortunately my insurance covered most of that, but I could have covered the whole thing by selling stock in taxable.

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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby Sandtrap » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:50 pm

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
RoadHouseFan wrote:36+ months of expenses


+1

++++1 or more = sleep factor.. :happy

Pdxnative
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby Pdxnative » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:10 pm

RoadHouseFan wrote:36+ months of expenses


Seems excessive for most middle class families, if by EF we are talking about an easily accessed bank account. There are opportunity costs to consider, and almost no one needs emergency access to 3 years of expenses. If you mean structuring roths, etc, to make sure you'd have reasonable access to stable funds in a downturn, then it makes sense.

RoadHouseFan
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby RoadHouseFan » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:26 pm

Sandtrap wrote:
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
RoadHouseFan wrote:36+ months of expenses


+1

++++1 or more = sleep factor.. :happy


Agree! Cash is king...

ByThePond
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby ByThePond » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:50 pm

2 full years. I know, it's overkill, but it gives my wife peace of mind.

Happy wife = happy life. :happy

MathWizard
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby MathWizard » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:56 pm

Wings5 wrote:I'm curious how many months of expenses the average Boglehead keeps in an emergency fund, and where they keep it. We have five months earmarked within a Roth IRA plus two months earmarked in a high yield savings account; we add to the savings account bucket each month.


We fluctuate between 3 to 6 months in savings account and have 2 years contributions in a ROTH.

With a loss of job, we could retire if we had to, though we'd mostly sitting around watching the grass grow.

HIinvestor
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby HIinvestor » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:32 pm

We have cash of about a year's income as well as another year's income as our share of a joint business account. Yes it's overkill but yes, we sleep well at night.

Our medical insurance has a max out-of-pocket family limit of 5 figures, including copays and Rx. We have hit that limit for individuals in our family a few times and yes, our insurance did pay 100% thereafter for the rest of the year.

Having the big/enormous emergency fund is indeed overkill but we are OK with it for now.

Jags4186
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby Jags4186 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:43 pm

Right now I have about $32k in cash between checking and savings and that represents about 8 months of expenses.

I also have $120k in a taxable account and maybe 70k in Roth contributions that could be accessed.

cherijoh
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby cherijoh » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:53 pm

MathWizard wrote:
Wings5 wrote:I'm curious how many months of expenses the average Boglehead keeps in an emergency fund, and where they keep it. We have five months earmarked within a Roth IRA plus two months earmarked in a high yield savings account; we add to the savings account bucket each month.


We fluctuate between 3 to 6 months in savings account and have 2 years contributions in a ROTH.

With a loss of job, we could retire if we had to, though we'd mostly sitting around watching the grass grow.


Is that 2 years of Roth contributions or 2 years of expenses? Unless your expenses are REALLY low, those are two very different things!

If it is 2 years contributions, you should be expressing it as months of expenses.

corysold
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby corysold » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:57 pm

What defines "middle class"?

Assuming $100,000 income, a 15-20% savings rate and $60,000 annual expenses, it'd take 10 years to save 3 years of EF and that would exclude any retirement savings.

2Birds1Stone
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby 2Birds1Stone » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:13 pm

36 months of necessary expenses.

mnnice
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby mnnice » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:27 pm

Palatineman wrote:
Anyone can become homeless very quickly, if the market crashes and you don't have adequate cash flow or if you become disabled and not have appropriate insurance.


Actually you could become homeless suddenly without warning due to natural disaster or fire without regard to the amount of money in the bank. We were homeless for three weeks in 2013 with six figures in our checking account. I personally like a couple of years in cash "around". Not all emergencies require cash. Nearly all require good problem solving.

rralex1
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby rralex1 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:30 pm

Cash is 18 months of current expenses. It is a buffer that includes our EF of 6 months and an amount that rounds out our asset allocation strategy.

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knpstr
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby knpstr » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:32 pm

sounds about right
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Jack FFR1846
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby Jack FFR1846 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:01 pm

7 years worth of expenses sitting in iBonds.

And some cash.
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spammagnet
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby spammagnet » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:11 pm

What I get out of the referenced article is not a recommendation for an emergency fund. Rather, it's a suggested amount of liquid assets available to smooth over wide, but normal, variances in income vs expenses. To me, that's a buffer, not an emergency fund. The latter is for financial disasters such as short term disability (without ST disability insurance), or losing your job or house.

emoore
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby emoore » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:21 pm

2Birds1Stone wrote:36 months of necessary expenses.


Is that a serious comment? If so, I guess that only happens on this forum. The average American can barely have 3 months let along ten times that.

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knpstr
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby knpstr » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:24 pm

spammagnet wrote:Rather, it's a suggested amount of liquid assets available to smooth over wide, but normal, variances in income vs expenses. To me, that's a buffer, not an emergency fund.


What you call a "buffer" is what the rest of the country calls an emergency fund.

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spammagnet
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby spammagnet » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:35 pm

knpstr wrote:What you call a "buffer" is what the rest of the country calls an emergency fund.

Perhaps. I don't mean to seem insensitive to the financial reality of a lot of families. I'm not at the end of the curve that keeps years of cash on hand, either.

My use of the term "buffer" comes from being a YNAB user. From the correspondence on their user forum it seems that many of those users would struggle to stay afloat if those financial stressors happened to them.

Palatineman
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby Palatineman » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:36 pm

"Palatineman wrote:

Anyone can become homeless very quickly, if the market crashes and you don't have adequate cash flow or if you become disabled and not have appropriate insurance.


Actually you could become homeless suddenly without warning due to natural disaster or fire without regard to the amount of money in the bank. We were homeless for three weeks in 2013 with six figures in our checking account. I personally like a couple of years in cash "around". Not all emergencies require cash. Nearly all require good problem solving."

Ok now just curious?

Not enough or wrong kind of insurance to put you in that position. By all means, I'm sure your family suffered and I am sympathetic. Just trying to learn from this board from everyone's experiences.

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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby Dottie57 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:38 pm

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
RoadHouseFan wrote:36+ months of expenses


+1


+1

emoore
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby emoore » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:53 pm

Dottie57 wrote:
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
RoadHouseFan wrote:36+ months of expenses


+1


+1


-1

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Thrifty Femme
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby Thrifty Femme » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:53 pm

For those of you with multiple years of emergency funds, are you anywhere near or in retirement?

randomguy
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby randomguy » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:44 pm

emoore wrote:
Dottie57 wrote:
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
RoadHouseFan wrote:36+ months of expenses


+1


+1


-1



I have 0 dollars of money in an emergency fund. If I get some expenses, I will sell a bunch of my investments. I see no need to give some percentage of my stocks/bonds a special name. Personally I couldn't sleep well at night knowing I had 36 months of money wasting away in cash/cds. YMMV

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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby Grt2bOutdoors » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:47 am

randomguy wrote:
emoore wrote:
Dottie57 wrote:
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
RoadHouseFan wrote:36+ months of expenses


+1


+1


-1



I have 0 dollars of money in an emergency fund. If I get some expenses, I will sell a bunch of my investments. I see no need to give some percentage of my stocks/bonds a special name. Personally I couldn't sleep well at night knowing I had 36 months of money wasting away in cash/cds. YMMV


Many roads to Dublin. Every ones situation is different. There is one quote from a rather famous investor - you know who's been swimming naked when the tide goes out. Nothing wrong with using cash to manage one's personal books. If you investments (companies) held no cash your be alot poorer for it. Cash has its place. Yes, just sell some investments assuming the person on other side of trade has the cash to pay you. Read up on 2009, you don't know how close we came to having no cash.
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby Grt2bOutdoors » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:49 am

Thrifty Femme wrote:For those of you with multiple years of emergency funds, are you anywhere near or in retirement?


All depends on stability of employment. Discrimination is alive and well.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

B. Wellington
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby B. Wellington » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:21 am

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Thrifty Femme wrote:For those of you with multiple years of emergency funds, are you anywhere near or in retirement?


All depends on stability of employment. Discrimination is alive and well.


^^^ +1 This is a very valid point. Try replacing 6 months to 1 year of income (expenses) when you are 59...?
In many cases mega-corp. is going to tell you that you are "over qualified, but thanks for stopping in." :annoyed

teen persuasion
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby teen persuasion » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:45 am

Reading the linked article, they are talking about the buffer you need to weather a perfect storm of trouble. A co-worker is dealing with this now - a windstorm dropped a tree on her kitchen. She was injured, though not severely (staples to a cut on her head, concussion). Structural damage to their house. Damage to their car. Out of work at least 3 weeks so far. Utilities disconnected, need to eat out, short term. Now need to relocate while rebuilding parts of the house, with dog in tow. Etc.

Asking myself if we could handle this, I realize there are multiple levels to our buffer: insurance, credit cards to absorb immediate expenses, HSA for medical expenses, and yes, a traditional EF. Then there's our modest lifestyle: mortgage paid off, no debt, little in recurring fixed expenses. In case of a job loss, unemployment would cover our expenses pretty well, we wouldn't be thrown in a hole instantly.

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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby sunny_socal » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:46 am

B. Wellington wrote:
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Thrifty Femme wrote:For those of you with multiple years of emergency funds, are you anywhere near or in retirement?


All depends on stability of employment. Discrimination is alive and well.


^^^ +1 This is a very valid point. Try replacing 6 months to 1 year of income (expenses) when you are 59...?
In many cases mega-corp. is going to tell you that you are "over qualified, but thanks for stopping in." :annoyed



Hmmm... hadn't thought of that. I'm only 45 but I've been busy hiring my replacements, one interview per day. We've hired 10 people in China over the last 3 months compared to just one locally.

why3not
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby why3not » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:07 am

spammagnet wrote:What I get out of the referenced article is not a recommendation for an emergency fund. Rather, it's a suggested amount of liquid assets available to smooth over wide, but normal, variances in income vs expenses. To me, that's a buffer, not an emergency fund. The latter is for financial disasters such as short term disability (without ST disability insurance), or losing your job or house.


I use mine for both. I keep 1 years worth of normal expenses or 2 years of emergency expenses (my typical spending is about 2x my minimum spend level) in high interest savings. I dip into it when variable spending occurs (for example, I've had to pull $12k so far this year for "one-time-a-decade" housing repairs) or when we want to purchase something (ie: a new car). Once the spending occurs, the account is replenished as a priority by directing all non-tax deferred savings into it until it is back to target.

I don't allow it to go lower than 6-months normal/1-year emergency. If a big ticket spend were to potentially deplete it further, I would either sell some of my taxable account or pre-save the excess as "cash" (depending on timing of spend, pre-saving is preferred but not always possible).

mnnice
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby mnnice » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:54 am

Palatineman wrote:"Palatineman wrote:

Anyone can become homeless very quickly, if the market crashes and you don't have adequate cash flow or if you become disabled and not have appropriate insurance.


Actually you could become homeless suddenly without warning due to natural disaster or fire without regard to the amount of money in the bank. We were homeless for three weeks in 2013 with six figures in our checking account. I personally like a couple of years in cash "around". Not all emergencies require cash. Nearly all require good problem solving."

Ok now just curious?

Not enough or wrong kind of insurance to put you in that position. By all means, I'm sure your family suffered and I am sympathetic. Just trying to learn from this board from everyone's experiences.


We were adequately insured. We had another option than the IL"s basement. We could have stayed in a hotel paid for by insurance. It takes time to find a new place to live especially when you live in a place with few rentals, cold climate, pets, children. Just because we had cash to buy a new place outright didn't make it a good idea. We called a good friend that has rentals and sells real estate. He didn't have any vacancies and encouraged us not to look at places to buy til the dust settled.

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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby 2Birds1Stone » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:18 pm

emoore wrote:
2Birds1Stone wrote:36 months of necessary expenses.


Is that a serious comment? If so, I guess that only happens on this forum. The average American can barely have 3 months let along ten times that.


Yes, I work in commissioned sales which is incredibly unpredictable in terms of income.

This is 3 years of barebones expenses, or 1.5-2 years of actual expenses.

Thus far it has given me tremendous peace of mind, as well as the freedom to take career risks in stride.

:sharebeer

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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby Jack FFR1846 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:48 pm

Thrifty Femme wrote:For those of you with multiple years of emergency funds, are you anywhere near or in retirement?


2 to 3 years away. The big e fund was somewhat of a complete accident of first being totally averse to investment beyond a 401k (bought iBonds with extra money) and then the bonuses I could earn some years ago when bonds could be redeemed at 6 months, bought on line with a credit card and no fee and limits were $30k per person. We bought $120k a year and sold off prior ones to pay the credit card bills. Miles to fly to Aruba first class (bought coach and upgraded). Over the years, I didn't need to sell off as many bonds and they piled up. I'm the weird one with 7 years of expenses in iBonds.
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Dottie57
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby Dottie57 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:50 pm

Thrifty Femme wrote:For those of you with multiple years of emergency funds, are you anywhere near or in retirement?


5 years away. I want the money there for 2 things a) support myself during period from retirement to SS, b) Roth Conversions during same time. All money will be taxed at 15% or less.

Dottie57
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby Dottie57 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:55 pm

randomguy wrote:
emoore wrote:
Dottie57 wrote:
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
RoadHouseFan wrote:36+ months of expenses


+1


+1


-1



I have 0 dollars of money in an emergency fund. If I get some expenses, I will sell a bunch of my investments. I see no need to give some percentage of my stocks/bonds a special name. Personally I couldn't sleep well at night knowing I had 36 months of money wasting away in cash/cds. YMMV


I couldn't go your way and you couldn't go mine. Whatever you want for your own pile of money is fine with me. You know what can happen. As do I.

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knpstr
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby knpstr » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:34 pm

Dottie57 wrote:
Thrifty Femme wrote:For those of you with multiple years of emergency funds, are you anywhere near or in retirement?


5 years away. I want the money there for 2 things a) support myself during period from retirement to SS, b) Roth Conversions during same time. All money will be taxed at 15% or less.


Well in that case, you're not exactly talking about an "emergency fund" in the way it is used in OP's article, or the common meaning.

The funds used for expected living expenses in retirement, would just be retirement funds.

Emergency funds are funds you keep around for "unexpected" things like medical expense, car repairs, furnace goes out, etc, etc... or to perhaps you tide you over during an unexpected job layoff.

:beer
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius

MathWizard
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby MathWizard » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:00 pm

cherijoh wrote:
MathWizard wrote:
Wings5 wrote:I'm curious how many months of expenses the average Boglehead keeps in an emergency fund, and where they keep it. We have five months earmarked within a Roth IRA plus two months earmarked in a high yield savings account; we add to the savings account bucket each month.


We fluctuate between 3 to 6 months in savings account and have 2 years contributions in a ROTH.

With a loss of job, we could retire if we had to, though we'd mostly sitting around watching the grass grow.


Is that 2 years of Roth contributions or 2 years of expenses? Unless your expenses are REALLY low, those are two very different things!

If it is 2 years contributions, you should be expressing it as months of expenses.


Sorry, our ROTH contributions (the part which we can withdraw without penalty) equals 2 years of expenses.

The total ROTH account is more because of earnings.

dave_k
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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby dave_k » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:28 pm

Thrifty Femme wrote:For those of you with multiple years of emergency funds, are you anywhere near or in retirement?

We were getting up over 4 years of necessary expenses in cash, which was ridiculous, so we recently did more investing in taxable - muni bonds and stocks. Targeting 1 year now. About 5 years from early retirement, although it will probably be semi-retirement/FI at first. Most investments are tax-deferred.

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Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby surfstar » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:00 pm

Pretty sure that by the time you have saved up years worth of expenses for an "emergency fund", you are well above "middle class"


Catch-22 for most here

Jackson12
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Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:44 pm

Re: Recommended emergency fund for middle class households: $13,800

Postby Jackson12 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:10 pm

Thrifty Femme wrote:For those of you with multiple years of emergency funds, are you anywhere near or in retirement?


Yes. Less than 5 years away . We have nearly 3 years of emergency funds , for reasons given below ( our logic may be totally screwy but...we're open to change if someone can provide reasons that make sense to us)

We live way below our means so the fund is not huge and covers basic expenses..nothing lavish. It'd be a tight budget - but adequate.

We know there's an opportunity loss but peace of mind at our age is important.

Plus:

1. Getting to 70 And maximizing Social Security is a goal, especially with longevity on both sides of the family and there's that 8% extra every year we wait.

2. There are some minor health issues which could quickly become major...no way to predict at this point.

So we might need the money if early retirement is necessary. In case of sudden retirement, the extra funds will help bridge the gap till we reach 70 and can get increased Social Security.

And if we don't have to use the funds before then..we'll have to live with that.

3. We don't went to have to sell something while returns are low.

So we have nearly 3 years of emergency funds . These funds ket us relax and stick with our asset allocation . Also, we have plenty of equity exposure, at least based on our comfort level - as well as the historical info we've researched about expected returns.

Again, there's an opportunity loss but - with the emergency fund in place - we think we can weather the other risks we face and get to 70 without touching the principal.

Those risks include:
1. Possible unemployment due to age bias
2. Possible forced early retirement due to health issues
and so on.


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