Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
msk
Posts: 309
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:40 am

Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby msk » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:45 am

Following lifelong frugality I am now in the happy position of having retired early (17 years ago, current age 72) and can afford to pass on substantial assets to my heirs while I am still alive. Four kids aged 19 to 40. Choices I see:

1. Gift each a million $ in an ETF (e.g. SPY) and hope each is a responsible adult (uneasy about the 19 year-old but I want to treat all equally). Most are in Canada so no gift-tax repercussions but of course each will have to deal with his or her own income tax affairs.
2. Tell all that I'll give each $50k annually. I take the tax hit, no change from current tax status for anyone.
3. Do nothing. Just continue financing annual family vacations. Wisest move for the younger kids but the eldest will probably appreciate some cash to help with raising grandkids. Main disadvantage is the adage, "You'll spend the most on the least deserving kid and the least on the most deserving".

So, all ye wise old men and women, your pearls of wisdom and experiences please.

Globalviewer58
Posts: 381
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:26 pm

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby Globalviewer58 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:01 am

You know their personalities so each may need a different amount and approach at this time. The 40-year old may appreciate an account for educating the children or a gift to assist with their home improvement or ownership.

On the other hand it is difficult to know whether a 19-year old who has not earned the $ takes the path of Tim Tebow or Johnny Manziel so this one may benefit most from some capitalism type work-for-reward approach as in I'll pay for college with B or better results. Earn better than 3.8 of 4.0 and you get an additional $10K for that semester. Until the younger ones have some experience with earned money and saving I would not give large gifts.

If you need to set something up now as a contingency to giving it away in equal amounts on your demise then establish trusts with milestone or age linked payouts.

tibbitts
Posts: 6608
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:50 pm

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby tibbitts » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:11 am

Apparently you enjoyed being frugal for some reason. Probably the kids do too, so there's no reason to give them money and have them sit on it they way you did. Buy them stuff, so they don't have a chance to do nothing with the cash - experiences like the vacations, or assets that plunge in value immediately upon purchase, so they won't just sell whatever you give them and hoard the cash. Give them things that will be completely worthless in dollar terms shortly after they receive them.

User avatar
bligh
Posts: 359
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:13 pm

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby bligh » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:19 am

Just an idea, and some may find this in the "gray" area of being deceptive, but do you have the ability to give each of them a size able amount, say $100K and then watch them over a couple of years to see what they do with it? Dont mention anything about the additional $900K waiting for them if they use it wisely. Give them guidance of course, but do not communicate that "there is another $900K transfer waiting for you if you act wisely".

afan
Posts: 2669
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:01 pm

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby afan » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:24 am

Probably better to give the money in trust, rather than outright. I don't know Canadian law, but for an American getting it in trust keeps the money out of their estate. This is good for asset protection and for estate planning.

If you have estate tax exposure, then the gifting strategy can save a large amount of money.

Giving the money in trust also relieves some pressure on the younger heirs. You can structure the trust to give the heirs as much control as seems appropriate, perhaps evolving as they move through life.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama

User avatar
Peter Foley
Posts: 3886
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:34 am
Location: Lake Wobegon

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby Peter Foley » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:26 am

I would advise considering a trust, or perhaps four trusts. The specifics of a trust could be worked out with an attorney who specializes in estate planning and trusts. My concern is the age range of your children and the fact that we know nothing of their personalities.

I hope bsteiner picks up on this thread. His insight and advice advice would be valuable.

At a minimum I would suggest you read Beyond the Grave by Jeffrey Condon. It is replete with stories of estate planning gone awry.

MotoTrojan
Posts: 402
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:39 pm

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby MotoTrojan » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:27 am

Interesting, I am not sure how I would have responded if I inherited $1M at age 19. How well do they understand compound interest? If you explain it well, perhaps you can get them to let it ride for a couple decades before even thinking to touch it, but use the dividends as fun money for now? With a strategy like that, they would be retiring far earlier than you it seems.

On that note, I actually don't think it would be out of this realm to adjust the distribution based on potential worth at retirement, assuming a very mediocre return. Even if we assume <4% gains, the 19 year old will have a factor of 2x leg up on expected value at time of retirement when compared to the 40 year old. Time is money.

I'd also make sure any of them that aren't well versed in the market understand how to properly respond to a bear, especially if 100% equities.

Spirit Rider
Posts: 5509
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:39 pm

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby Spirit Rider » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:37 am

  1. In U.S., gift tax laws apply to the donor(s) not to the recipient(s).
  2. Are you married? Are they married? Each parental spouse can give $14K to each child and separately to their spouse. This is the annual gift tax reporting exclusion. Amounts from a donor to a recipient in excess of $14K/year are simply reported and count against the unified gift tax/estate tax lifetime exclusion (2017 = $5.49M for each spouse). Only then are taxes applied.
  3. I agree with MotoTrojan. I think it would be much better to take advantage of the $14K/donor/recipient annual gift tax exclusion.
Since at least one child is married, to be fair I would gift $28K/year ($56K if you are married) to each child. For the children who are not married, you would have to file an annual IRS Form 709 reporting $14K/year (for each of you if married) as amounts counted against the lifetime exclusion. It might even make sense to set up trusts with liberal distribution discretion. With properly constructed trusts, the gifts to the trusts for benefit of each beneficiary would be treated the same as completed gifts to them.

You could also consider setting up trusts and making annual gifts to the grandchildren. Another option is to make 529 contributions to the grandchildren. Special gift tax rules allow you to make a five year ($70K) contribution to a 529 and spread it over five years without using up the lifetime exclusion amount. This involves giving more to the bloodlines with grandchildren, but grandparents have been doing this for millennia.

Finally, what is your estate plan. At this wealth level you really should have a comprehensive estate plan with extensive planning to take maximum advantage of these issues as well as taking full advantage of the full ~$11M lifetime exclusion available to spouses.

RudyS
Posts: 589
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:11 am

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby RudyS » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:11 pm

bligh wrote:Just an idea, and some may find this in the "gray" area of being deceptive, but do you have the ability to give each of them a size able amount, say $100K and then watch them over a couple of years to see what they do with it? Dont mention anything about the additional $900K waiting for them if they use it wisely. Give them guidance of course, but do not communicate that "there is another $900K transfer waiting for you if you act wisely".


I like this idea. I don't think it's deceptive. The outcome will give you a much better idea of what to do next.

spencer99
Posts: 277
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:17 pm

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby spencer99 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:31 pm

Peter Foley wrote:I would advise considering a trust, or perhaps four trusts. The specifics of a trust could be worked out with an attorney who specializes in estate planning and trusts. My concern is the age range of your children and the fact that we know nothing of their personalities.

I hope bsteiner picks up on this thread. His insight and advice advice would be valuable.

At a minimum I would suggest you read Beyond the Grave by Jeffrey Condon. It is replete with stories of estate planning gone awry.


+1 for the Condon book and his more recent book: "The Living Trust Advisor."

Of course every family's need is different but Condon has a lot of experience to share and does a nice job of discussing the perils and pitfalls of unequal distribution and/or attempting, however well intentioned, to exercise too much control when gifting to heirs. Condon's discussion of the family dynamics that play out in some of these scenarios is eye-opening.

Good luck,

S

User avatar
Kenkat
Posts: 3546
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:18 am
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby Kenkat » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:56 pm

I'd go with the $50k a year. It is a really nice boost for everyone's finances but not a massive windfall that they might just go crazy with. And, if it doesn't seem to be working out, you can always stop or suspend the gifts for awhile.

itstoomuch
Posts: 4045
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:17 pm

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby itstoomuch » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:20 pm

Bookmarked.
We have an Only who probably won't need the inheritance.
4 buckets: SS+pension;dfr'd GLWB VA & FI anntys, by time & $$ laddered; Discretionary; Rental. Do OK any 2 bkts. LTCi. Own, not asset. Tax 25%. Early SS. FundingRatio (FR) >1.1 Age 67/70

User avatar
Taylor Larimore
Advisory Board
Posts: 25541
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:09 pm
Location: Miami FL

Giving heirs their inheritance..now or later?

Postby Taylor Larimore » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:58 pm

msk:

I think it is a wonderful idea to give your heirs their inheritance before you die. I have been doing the same thing and I can't understand why others (who can afford it) do not do the same. This is a letter my wife and I wrote to our three children on September 5, 2005:
Dear Michael, Jeffrey and Gregory:

We believe that one of the greatest gifts parents can give their children is for parents to become financial independent in their old age.

It is difficult to know how much savings are needed to accomplish this. We don't know how long we will live, and we can't predict future investment income. A big unknown are future medical expenses (basic nursing home care averages about $65,000/year/person). We also feel the need to hold a reserve to help each of you if you cannot help yourselves.

Fortunately, our investments have done well: Mother continues to work and we may even see some book royalties. Accordingly, as our lives grow shorter, we feel we can now safely begin transferring a portion of our portfolio to you as a way to show our appreciation for having such fine and loving children. Our plan is to treat each of you equally with adjustment for our past financial help. We also want each of you to be able to plan your own finances.

Beginning October 1, 2005, and each year thereafter, we intend to give each of you $____ per month. Please understand that it may be necessary to discontinue these monthly payments. Our hope is that we can later increase our gifts to you without jeopardizing our own financial independence.

With love,

Mother and Dad

Note: Gifts are tax-free and do not need to be reported as income.


Bogleheads:

I am now 93 years old. Our first child, and my wife of 62 years, died ahead of me. Looking back, our continuing monthly gifts (that have increased), changed the lives of our devoted children and have brought us much happiness.

Best wishes.
Taylor
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle

Sandtrap
Posts: 1189
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:32 pm

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby Sandtrap » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:16 pm

My personal experience: suggest In trust for children and grandchildren, and to be grandchildren, per need and merit, based on family dynamics, individual responsibilities, etc. Sub trust for education fund for each child's continuing education and children's education. Once constructed everything's clear and level field with no cause for conflict or stress or drama while you are alive or thereafter. Minimizes enabling and focuses on individual achievement, maturity, frugality, and financial independence. Some random thoughts that may be actionable. Every family dynamic is unique.

randomguy
Posts: 4576
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:00 am

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby randomguy » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:21 pm

Kenkat wrote:I'd go with the $50k a year. It is a really nice boost for everyone's finances but not a massive windfall that they might just go crazy with. And, if it doesn't seem to be working out, you can always stop or suspend the gifts for awhile.



Giving a lump sum up front gets money out of the estate. Giving 50k/year leaves most of the growth in the estate. You would need to look at the tax situation to decide what is best. You can use a trust to get money out of the estate while giving 50k/yr.

50k/yr though is crapload of money to get for not working. It is more than enough to adversely influence someone. You might not think of it because your and adult. For a 19 year old, that is well over what you need to rent and apartment, get an xbox, and smoke dope all day long. Or if you want to look at it another way it is enough to radically change peer interactions. The kid can lease a BMW, apartment, fancy dinners, vacations, clothers and so on. Or they could take it and start saving for retirement and a house. Until you give the kid the money you are just guessing.

User avatar
Watty
Posts: 10515
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:55 pm

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby Watty » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:30 pm

+1 on talking to a lawyer about some sort of trust.

One big problem is that things can be very messy if you give them a lot of money and they later get divorced.

You might also want to talk to the lawyer about setting up some sort of educational fund for future generations.

Sandtrap
Posts: 1189
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:32 pm

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby Sandtrap » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:10 pm

There is an excellent book on trusts that is often mentioned on the forum: "Beyond the Grave". With case studies.

JGoneRiding
Posts: 687
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:26 pm

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby JGoneRiding » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:24 pm

Wow that is some age range!

I think at 19 a mill trust/gift or even 50k/yr annuity would be a HUGE de-motivator and I am a pretty motivated person. but still at 19 I wasn't totally certain of life path planning and I was still ahead of most of my peers on what "I wanted to do with my life"

Setting up trusts and telling the older kids and not the "baby" makes sense other than to maybe tell him (generic all inclusive him) other than that if something were to happen to you he doesn't need to worry you will provide for him in that case.

you could also set up trusts for the grandkids (or maybe one trust for ALL future grand kids as there is a HUGE possibility that that baby will be having kids after you are long gone) The grandkid trust could be highly limited to education and medical needs until the youngest grand kid reaches Xage and then less limited and/or distribution of remander

User avatar
Pretzel lover
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:02 pm

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby Pretzel lover » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:29 pm

Taylor: thank you for sharing your letter. It was very uplifting.

bsteiner
Posts: 2604
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:39 pm
Location: NYC/NJ/FL

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby bsteiner » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:17 pm

msk wrote:... Choices I see:

1. Gift each a million $ in an ETF (e.g. SPY) and hope each is a responsible adult (uneasy about the 19 year-old but I want to treat all equally). Most are in Canada ....


Peter Foley wrote:I would advise considering a trust, or perhaps four trusts. The specifics of a trust could be worked out with an attorney who specializes in estate planning and trusts. My concern is the age range of your children and the fact that we know nothing of their personalities.

I hope bsteiner picks up on this thread. His insight and advice advice would be valuable.

At a minimum I would suggest you read Beyond the Grave by Jeffrey Condon. It is replete with stories of estate planning gone awry.


Peter: thanks for the kind words.

At least in the U.S., large gifts would generally be in trust rather than outright. In that way, they won't be included in your children's estates, and they'll be protected against their creditors and spouses.

The trusts could be grantor trusts, so that you would pay the income tax on the trusts' income and gains. By paying the income tax on the trusts' income and gains, you would effectively be shifting additional wealth out of your estate, free of transfer taxes.

You'll have to consider the Canadian aspects of this. Are your children and grandchildren U.S. citizens? Canada repealed its estate tax, and treats death as a sale for income tax purposes. Canada also imposes a tax on trusts every 21 years as if they sold their assets at fair market value and repurchased them. Your lawyer in the U.S. may want to coordinate with Canadian counsel on this.

Condon's book is interesting. However, he focuses on community property, and on California in particular. He focuses on the two end points (leaving assets to children either outright or in trusts in which the children have no control), when most people pick a middle ground (providing for children in trusts that the children effectively control). He doesn't pay much attention to taxes (which makes sense since he's writing for the general public, most of whom won't pay estate tax, but if you're considering making a $4 million gift, taxes may be relevant in your case).

msk
Posts: 309
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby msk » Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:07 am

Taylor: way to go, man! Exactly my sentiments. I am 72 with recent major cardiac surgery. Dad died at 72, Mom approaching a vigorous 90. Her main request is that I live long enough to bury her. Am trying my best... I'll order that Condon book immediately.

I have run into paralysis by analysis as regards trusts, etc. because of our unusual family/tax situations. Doesn't that apply to all families :shock: Our family has spent most of our lives living in multiple countries, hence the only country of tax relevance for each kid is the one he/she is currently tax-resident in (3 currently in Canada but may change soon for the youngest two if/when they proceed to graduate studies and/or employment). An older kid is in the sun in my current country of residence, nil personal taxes. One strong advice I had from our corporate lawyers was to sever ALL financial ties when moving from one country to the next. I.e. close all bank, credit cards, real estate, etc. Your tax jurisdiction migrates with you. Nevertheless I just cannot sort out what country to register the trust in, where accessibility, succession of trustees, tax efficiency, etc. are simple and well established. E.g. Canada seems to put various time constraints as regards trust perpetuity and tax status (I think also how much % must be paid out annually for charitable trusts), both the UK and the USA are most easily activated by somebody already tax-resident there. A Canadian friend set up an endowment/trust in the USA rather than in Canada because of the tax implications. He promised to explain to me why the next time I saw him. Unfortunately he passed away before we conversed on the topic in depth. My first choice has always been some sort of trust, if ever I can sort out in which country to establish it in. Basically I am looking for a stable country with a history of honoring trust deeds and that does not impose egregious taxes, on neither trust capital appreciation nor dividends. Similarly must be flexible as to the residency status of the Trustee(s). Who can foretell? The next trustee might be resident in Hong Kong, or New Zealand, or California... My plan is to have the trust invested in just 2 ETFs (90% IWDA, iShares All Developed World, 10% EIMI, iShares Emerging Markets, both Ireland based). That's the easy part. Where, is the difficult challenge.

We've been very lucky to find that our kids are all reasonably financially responsible. I was worried about the youngest when we sent her off to college at 17. Gave her stipend in installments per semester. Believe it or not. She put the lot in a savings account and had weekly(!) transfers to a current account. And stuck to her weekly budgets. The next youngest got himself a summer job and has now put a whole semester's stipend in a CD. Years ago I gave the eldest two each $100k lump sums upon getting married, and rather than wasting much on wedding parties they actually bought houses. Similar wedding lump sums I have allocated to the youngest were invested soon after birth in SPY, Berkshire Hathaway, etc and have now mushroomed way above inflation. I have always aimed at treating all equally. We are now at an age that our own expenses are much less than income, hence time to pass things on. At least we have resolved all aspects for our charitable donations. Took a couple of years to resolve but that's now working like clockwork. Now for the kiddies and grandkids. Anyone used Cayman Islands? Channel Islands? OK, will steer clear of Panama :annoyed

denovo
Posts: 3032
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:04 pm

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby denovo » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:26 am

JGoneRiding wrote:Wow that is some age range!

I think at 19 a mill trust/gift or even 50k/yr annuity would be a HUGE de-motivator and I am a pretty motivated person. but still at 19 I wasn't totally certain of life path planning and I was still ahead of most of my peers on what "I wanted to do with my life"



msk wrote:
1. Gift each a million $ in an ETF (e.g. SPY) and hope each is a responsible adult (uneasy about the 19 year-old but I want to treat all equally). Most are in Canada so no gift-tax repercussions but of course each will have to deal with his or her own income tax affairs.


I think I was among the more responsible 19 year old's when I was in that age group (I guess we all think that) but I am sure I'd do some pretty crazy stuff if someone handed me a million dollars and no strings attached at that age. I assume you wouldn't react well if he or she stopped going to school for a few years (gap years?) and bought an $80,000 sports car and loafed around throwing parties or going on months-long vacations. And probably suspectible to being attractive to unscrupulous people who would want your kid to invest in their dumb business ideas.... That's just too much money for anyone of that age.
Stocks (80% of portfolio): 30% US Large, 4% Mid Cap, 6% Small Cap, 20% Emerg Market, 10% Asia Developed, 10% Europe, 5% Intl Small Cap, 10% US RE, 5 % INTL RE | Bonds (20%): US Interm Bond Index

MikeG62
Posts: 344
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:20 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby MikeG62 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:28 am

RudyS wrote:
bligh wrote:Just an idea, and some may find this in the "gray" area of being deceptive, but do you have the ability to give each of them a size able amount, say $100K and then watch them over a couple of years to see what they do with it? Dont mention anything about the additional $900K waiting for them if they use it wisely. Give them guidance of course, but do not communicate that "there is another $900K transfer waiting for you if you act wisely".


I like this idea. I don't think it's deceptive. The outcome will give you a much better idea of what to do next.


I do as well.

Either this, or I'd go the route of gifting money annually (up to maximum annual gift tax free level) with no expectation of further annual gifts (just so the kids don't necessarily come to expect the money and build it into their annual budgets as part of their income).

bsteiner
Posts: 2604
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:39 pm
Location: NYC/NJ/FL

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby bsteiner » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:46 am

msk wrote:... I have run into paralysis by analysis as regards trusts, etc. because of our unusual family/tax situations. Doesn't that apply to all families :shock: Our family has spent most of our lives living in multiple countries, hence the only country of tax relevance for each kid is the one he/she is currently tax-resident in (3 currently in Canada but may change soon for the youngest two if/when they proceed to graduate studies and/or employment). An older kid is in the sun in my current country of residence, nil personal taxes. ... Basically I am looking for a stable country with a history of honoring trust deeds and that does not impose egregious taxes, on neither trust capital appreciation nor dividends. Similarly must be flexible as to the residency status of the Trustee(s). Who can foretell? The next trustee might be resident in Hong Kong, or New Zealand, or California... My plan is to have the trust invested in just 2 ETFs (90% IWDA, iShares All Developed World, 10% EIMI, iShares Emerging Markets, both Ireland based). That's the easy part. Where, is the difficult challenge.


If you're in a country with no income tax, then it's not the United States.

I would think that any of the English speaking countries would be stable and would respect trusts.

As to taxes, it depends on the situation. It's possible to have a trust governed by the law of the United States (more precisely, the law of some particular state), and to have a trustee in the United States, without the trust being taxable in the United States (except on any United States source income).

There are some trust companies that will act as trustee for a very low fee if someone else will be responsible for the investments.

Some jurisdictions allow trusts to last forever. Others use the common law rule (the lifetime of an identifiable class of persons living at the inception, such as your children and grandchildren or the issue of King George V, plus 21 years). Others allow a longer duration than the common law but not forever (such as 150 years in Washington State, 360 years in Florida, 365 years in Nevada or 1,000 years in Colorado).

msk wrote:... Anyone used Cayman Islands? Channel Islands? OK, will steer clear of Panama.


We've used the Channel Islands, as well as Nevis, the Cook Islands and the Bahamas. It depends on the situation.

Bogel0048
Posts: 121
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:30 pm

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby Bogel0048 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:15 am

The number one advice we have received and followed is to fund shared family vacations that will create memories for our family. I think you should definitely do this.

I do not see the need to give your children $1M gifts now. We have given about $28K per year to each of our two sons since age 20 (they are now in their thirties). They were raised in a BH household and they seem to have adopted BH habits. We have not seen any spending issues. Now that they are married we are also giving $28K per year to our new daughters. We have super-funded a 529 plan for our first grandchild and we will do the same for any future grandchildren. Once the grandchildren turn age 5 we will give them $28K per year also, probably using UGTM, with their parents as the custodians.

The only larger amounts we have given our children have been for one son's first house downpayment and for one daughter's student loan pay-off.

I also intend to use the full US QCD limit for charity once I turn 70, which will be very soon!

gr7070
Posts: 163
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:39 am

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby gr7070 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:34 am

I am frugal; I have been all my life. I have always been responsible and considerate; more so than most my age even at 19. Intelligent. Educated. Mature. Excellent parents.

Had I received $1M at age 19 I think that gift would have turned out to be a long-term net negative to me as a person. A curse, not a blessing. Same could probably be said of $50k annually.

Hold off till at least 22 if not 25.

Continue to take everyone on vacations. Fly everyone home for Christmas or similar family time. Rent a house nearby faraway child and spend a month near grandkids. Lots of ways to share your love with your family until everyone is mature enough to share finances.

Talk to a lawyer and read as others suggest. A trust might make sense now.

I hate the give some smaller amount then judge them and maybe give lots later approach. Some kids may not feel the need to horde wealth, but still can save appropriately for retirement. Huge differences in life stages and needs could/should completely change how they utilize the gift. Children will resent you and siblings if treated differently. Hate this idea for so many reasons.

rralex1
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:21 pm

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby rralex1 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:46 pm

Pretzel lover wrote:Taylor: thank you for sharing your letter. It was very uplifting.


+1 Legacies are left in many ways.

taffygould
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:40 pm

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby taffygould » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:54 pm

Several things to consider, here: #1 is the age and working status of the children. Deciding to give responsible, productive adults a boost to their current income is easy, if you're able to do that--even if it's the $14,000/year you may give with no gift tax. (You may also give the spouse and children the same amount, in trust for minor children, of course.) For young children, teenagers, and young adults, you are free to set an age at which the funds will be made available to them--and some think this should be at 35, after they have established themselves and will be delighted to receive help with buying a house, fund their children's education, or being able to travel.

If you have one adult child who has proven to be less responsible than you consider acceptable, consult your attorney about establishing a Spendthrift Trust. Remember: It is your money, and you may be as strict or lenient with it as you like! When I wrote my first will, I set aside funds for each grandchild (at the time, as yet unborn!), to be used for world travel at any time after graduating college, but with the string attached that they had to have studied a foreign language! That way, if I wasn't still around, they would know well what mattered to me. When the grandchildren arrived and reached an age of understanding, I told them that, if they would agree to put at least 10% of their allowance in a special savings account that wouldn't be touched until age 25, I would match every deposit, and if they wanted to put other earned money in that account, I would match that as well. (Of course my ulterior motive was/is to develop Bogleheads!)

You have many opportunities, along the way, to help them out--graduations, promotions, major birthdays, even starting a new business--in ways that don't break the bank but that let them know you are interested in aiding their success and helping them lead fulfilling lives. My impression is that most adults feel the donations they make to their grandchildren's trusts should not be discussed with the children until a certain age, specifically so as not to stunt the emotional growth and productivity of the children. Precious few of them, in this day and age, have the maturity to live as though nothing at all were coming to them except from the sweat of their own brow.

Finally, a word on another oft-discussed topic: Do you treat all your children the same, or provide more to one who is less successful? I find the vast majority of parents feel it is better to divide everything equally, and I have heard too many stories of rifts between parents and children, when gifts were scaled, to disagree with that approach.
Last edited by taffygould on Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

InternationalMan
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:38 pm

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby InternationalMan » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:24 pm

msk wrote:Our family has spent most of our lives living in multiple countries, hence the only country of tax relevance for each kid is the one he/she is currently tax-resident in (3 currently in Canada but may change soon for the youngest two if/when they proceed to graduate studies and/or employment). An older kid is in the sun in my current country of residence, nil personal taxes...
One strong advice I had from our corporate lawyers was to sever ALL financial ties when moving from one country to the next. I.e. close all bank, credit cards, real estate, etc. Your tax jurisdiction migrates with you. Nevertheless I just cannot sort out what country to register the trust in, where accessibility, succession of trustees, tax efficiency, etc. are simple and well established...
My first choice has always been some sort of trust, if ever I can sort out in which country to establish it in. Basically I am looking for a stable country with a history of honoring trust deeds and that does not impose egregious taxes, on neither trust capital appreciation nor dividends. Similarly must be flexible as to the residency status of the Trustee(s). Who can foretell? The next trustee might be resident in Hong Kong, or New Zealand, or California...
We've been very lucky to find that our kids are all reasonably financially responsible...
I have always aimed at treating all equally.


Congratulations, you seem to have done quite well and raised children who are also on track to do well.

I would strongly suggest seeking the counsel of an international law firm with an experienced wealth planning team. It can be very complicated. For example, if any of your family have ever been US citizens or residents.

Without knowing the future of the family's residency, financial and tax situation, flexibility is paramount. I think a dynastic trust may serve your family's needs. Perhaps create a trust with ability to amend it, decant the assets, relocate it by changing the trustee, and split off daughter trusts.

Retaining the option of keeping the children/grandchildren's inheritance in trust forever will offer protection from creditors, bad marriages, loss of mental competency etc.. Also, people don't always choose their country of residence based on taxes or financial stability. There could be advantages to keep assets offshore.

I think it is important parents treat children fairly. That does not necessarily mean equally in absolute monetary terms. For example a child with a medical issue may have a disproportionate share of expenditure.

A trust concept that is becoming more and more popular is the directed trust. Someone other than the trustee is responsible for certain trust decisions, such as investment, and/or distributions. This would be desirable for BH style investor who would want the trust assets invested in simple and low cost ETFs.

The USA is a fantastic place to invest in because of rule of law and financial stability. The USA is a terrible place to invest in because of taxes. There maybe ways to have your cake and eat it too using non US trusts and non US holding companies.

An author I recommend is James E. Hughes, Jr..

p.s. I do not believe a California trustee would best serve your needs.

downshiftme
Posts: 919
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:11 pm

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby downshiftme » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:14 pm

I am approaching a similar situation (heirs on the younger end, my assets much less than you describe) but still in the range that heirs will expect a $million or more should I die. I'd like to start gifting or something to keep my estate from growing too large, but have similar concerns. I'm very interested to see what others have to say about this common problem.

Interesting, I am not sure how I would have responded if I inherited $1M at age 19.


I am actually quite certain how I would have reacted had I received a windfall of $1 million at age 19. I would have more or less immediately dropped out of school and pursued a life of minimalist frugality while pursuing my many non-lucrative interests. It would have been a great life, but very different from the conventionally successful one I pursued when I had to pay my own way through life.

In fact, this is a major factor in making me hesitate before starting any kind of gifting program for heirs who are still too young to have formed their own adult responsible relationship to wealth. I think I will be inclined to make the maximum legal gifts under the annual exclusion AFTER my kids have had about 10 years of work experience and more fully appreciate what money can and cannot do for them. Until then, I am freely funding college education for heirs, but otherwise not telling them to expect a windfall.

I do like the idea that this kind of wealth should be used for good and also stewarded rather than merely consumed. I hope I will be able to make the case that should I do any systemic gifting that my hope is that they will in turn do similar gifting to future generations.
Last edited by downshiftme on Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MotoTrojan
Posts: 402
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:39 pm

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby MotoTrojan » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:42 pm

downshiftme wrote:I am approaching a similar situation (heirs on the younger end, my assets much less than you describe) but still in the range that heirs will expect a $million or more should I die. I'd like to start gifting or something to keep my estate from growing too large, but have similar concerns. I'm very interested to see what others have to say about this common problem.

Interesting, I am not sure how I would have responded if I inherited $1M at age 19.


I am actually quite certain how I would have reacted had I received a windfall of $1 million at age 19. I would have more or less immediately dropped out of school and pursued a life of minimalist frugality while pursuing my many non-lucrative interests. It would have been a great life, but very different from the conventionally success one I pursued when I had to pay my own way through life.

In fact, this is a major factor in making me hesitate before starting any kind of gifting program for heirs who are still too young to have formed their own adult responsible relationship to wealth. I think I will be inclined to make the maximum legal gifts under the annual exclusion AFTER my kids have had about 10 years of work experience and more fully appreciate what money can and cannot do for them. Until then, I am freely funding college education for heirs, but otherwise not telling them to expect a windfall.

I do like the idea that this kind of wealth should be used for good and also stewarded rather than merely consumed. I hope I will be able to make the case that should I do any systemic gifting that my hope is that they will in turn do similar gifting to future generations.



All sounds well! I know there won't be any major lifestyle changes for me if/when I inherit some sizable capital, although as it stands I am not that frugal. Straight to my brokerage account! Maybe treat myself to a nice dinner from my checking account :).

staythecourse
Posts: 4489
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:40 am

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby staythecourse » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:54 pm

Just quickly scanned the thread and did not catch how much are we talking about? Considering gift tax now has a lifetime exemption of 10 million per couple are we talking under or over that? It really only matters if you are over it. If not, then it is style points on how to distribute. As mentioned do you want to give away slowly or do you want to give after death?

I'm way too young (40) to have any credibility to comment, but find it a little disturbing to be handed monetary gifts from ANYONE at this age unless I needed it to live off, i.e. hand out. Feels a little odd to tell your kids to work hard to earn things in life and then just drop money in their lap in the end due to hitting the "gene lottery". Maybe offer/ start trusts for paying for stuff to decrease the financial burdens of your kids going forward? Pay for grandkids education or down payments for house, etc...

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle

grayparrot
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:09 am

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby grayparrot » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:30 pm

+1 to the comments about not ignoring time value of money. From personal experience, I can tell you that a 40 year old may feel it's quite unfair to get $1MM when his 19 year old sibling gets the same. The 19 year old, if acting prudently, should have THREE million at age 40, leading to a totally different impact on life.

Also, again based on personal experience, I'd advise not up front lump sum gifts, especially for the younger kids, but rather incentive payments to solidify good habits..i.e, I'll match your savings/retirement contributions...($ for $ for the 19 year old, $3 for $1 for the 40 year old, etc.)

michaeljc70
Posts: 1489
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:53 pm

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby michaeljc70 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:15 pm

OP, if worried about the 19 year old and wanting to do the lump sum, could just set a rule that everyone gets X when they reach the age of Y. Y being older than 19 obviously...maybe 25 or 30. I could see it still causing some resentment, but I guess it could be countered in the framing of it and maybe in some smaller $$$ for the time being (like for school or something).

If I was going to do this, I would do the annual amount. I just don't see any reason they would need a big lump sum and that that is inherently more risky (for them blowing it, thinking they are rich or whatever). I am not saying this is applicable to your kids as I don't know them, but look at how many lottery winners go broke.

If I thought the annual $$$$ would negatively impact any of the kids (like they would become a bum), I wouldn't give them anything or a smaller amount ($20k a year?) and let them get the rest when I go. I am thinking enough to help them out but not enough that they can be total slackers.

exoilman
Posts: 638
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:38 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby exoilman » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:26 pm

reference

Wricha
Posts: 230
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:33 am

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby Wricha » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:45 pm

I am going to go out on limb here (without knowing your children) 19 year old with $1M dollars :shock: that would have to be off the table. 19 and 40 are not equal, one is an adolescent and the other is entering middle age. In the end they can/may get the same amount they just don't receive it at the same time maybe the same age is a better idea. I think Mr Larimore has a reasonable approach for an adult children who have established themselves. Again a 19 year old $50k/yr :shock: In my opinion you need a trust for the younger children with delayed gratification built into their inheritance.

rralex1
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:21 pm

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby rralex1 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:41 pm

When a trust or a will is involved with heirs listed, my recommendation is to make sure that the early gifts/distributions are either in line with the % distributions, or make sure that changes or addenda are added to explain the changes.

I have considerable experience where early gifts were made that did not align with the % distribution of wealth based upon a trust as originally written for a number of valid reasons. It created considerable issues.

This is easily corrected, and may not pose an issue, but it can create a considerable problem. If for example a will or trust suggests a 50/50 distribution of wealth and early gifts do not align with that, heads up. There may or may not be an issue. FWIW.

msk
Posts: 309
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby msk » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:16 am

I'd like to point out that if I drop dead today (I am 72 with recent, complex cardiac surgery), all the kids will get their inheritances instantly and anyone tempted to purchase a Lamborgini will go right out and do so. I do not see waiting for 5 to 10 years doing nothing waiting for the younger kids to mature as a viable option given my age/health. Ideally, having carefully digested all the comments offered above I am tempted to conclude as follows:

1. Taylor's monthly/annual giving-while-alive is very appealing. We should not hog indefinitely onto what we are unlikely to need. But not a major lump sum because of the many reasons stated.
2. An offshore trust that is agnostic to the tax residency of each trustee or beneficiary would be ideal. Each kid will simply have to deal with his/her tax jurisdiction when the trust pays him/her. Can a trust give "gifts" as per the laws of the major Western countries? I can personally "gift" while alive but can a trust "gift" post my death? "Gifts" are presumably less liable to tax than "inheritances" via a trust fund in most tax jurisdictions?

My preference would be to have Interactive Brokers hold the trust funds (two ETFs 100% in stocks, worldwide, 5% annual withdrawals). I can then appoint two of the kids on opposite ends of the world as trustees. Hopefully at least one will survive 50 years. Any experience to share would be very welcome! Presumably IB will want a Trust Deed registered somewhere offshore (where? To minimize taxation) in order to open the account. Whom to approach for further guidance, an international accountancy firm like PWC (price Waterhouse Coopers), an international bank like HSBC or an over-priced international law firm? We are not talking 9 or 10 figures here...

theplayer11
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:55 pm

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby theplayer11 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:26 am

I don't think giving a 19 year old $1m is a great idea. I would worry about the loss of motivation. That's why I never played the lottery..

angelescrest
Posts: 783
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 10:48 am
Location: The Third Coast

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby angelescrest » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:32 am

With all the concerns that folks raised, I am interested if anyone on this forum is going the way of Warren Buffet. Not that anyone here may be a billionaire, and I'm sure Buffet is leaving his children some money, but why does one have to give it all to their children, if indeed they were raised well and are doing fine for themselves? A million at 19 would have ruined me as it was the time I was most wanting to buy "stuff" and didnt have a sense about perspective as it relates to retirement and savings. It was more about achieving status than anything. Since one doesn't have a career at 19, that status comes through what you own, wear, or drive. It wasn't until I had worked a steady job for about five years that I began to develop some perspective on saving and personal finances.

I have some peers who have determined that their estate will be going to charity, and while they have helped their children with education and some other things, their kids know they aren't going to get some large sum of money when their parents pass. And not only do they feel good about it, the kids seem to appreciate their parents goals with charitable giving. The other thing I've seen is parents giving control of a charitable trust to their children.

I recognize this will not be popular, but I am curious if anyone here has considered or gone this route, as it sounds many of you have already raised very respectable and successful children.

Dottie57
Posts: 1509
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:43 pm

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby Dottie57 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:41 am

angelescrest wrote:With all the concerns that folks raised, I am interested if anyone on this forum is going the way of Warren Buffet. Not that anyone here may be a billionaire, and I'm sure Buffet is leaving his children some money, but why does one have to give it all to their children, if indeed they were raised well and are doing fine for themselves? A million at 19 would have ruined me as it was the time I was most wanting to buy "stuff" and didnt have a sense about perspective as it relates to retirement and savings. It was more about achieving status than anything. Since one doesn't have a career at 19, that status comes through what you own, wear, or drive. It wasn't until I had worked a steady job for about five years that I began to develop some perspective on saving and personal finances.

I have some peers who have determined that their estate will be going to charity, and while they have helped their children with education and some other things, their kids know they aren't going to get some large sum of money when their parents pass. And not only do they feel good about it, the kids seem to appreciate their parents goals with charitable giving. The other thing I've seen is parents giving control of a charitable trust to their children.

I recognize this will not be popular, but I am curious if anyone here has considered or gone this route, as it sounds many of you have already raised very respectable and successful children.



Perhaps with many millions, this is a good way to go. However, i would hope parents would leave a good amount to their children. Why do people accumulate a LOT of money if not to give at least part to family?

bluebolt
Posts: 344
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:01 am

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby bluebolt » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:35 am

My parents gave me some incredible gifts:

1) The value of hard work & money. I was expected to work summers starting at 14 and my paychecks went straight into the bank for college tuition/expenses. During college, was expected to work for my spending money/incidentals.

2) A fully paid for education. My money from #1 above covered my first year. They paid tuition, room & board for the rest.

3) They set an excellent financial example. My parents were well off, but lived below their means. While my father's colleagues drove Mercedes, BMWs, Lexuses, etc, he was driving a Dodge. We forwent the country club and would hang out at the public pool/beach. Etc.

I have always lived below my means and been responsible with saving/investments. That said, I think getting a large gift at 19 would not have been helpful to my personal & financial development. For many people, I think a gift like that is much more helpful once you have a home and/or family since you are more likely to be planning for a longer term horizon.

msk
Posts: 309
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby msk » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:50 am

Personally I prefer "giving" while I am alive and the investments are still "mine". Once I die I own nothing and it costs me nothing to give it away. Not quite the same as when you are alive and may still hanker for a yacht, or a beach house, or a Rolls Royce, or whatever turns on older idle minds. For people who live into their nineties it's perhaps unnecessarily awkward not to give handouts to your heirs when they are in greatest need, in their 30s to 50s (?), rather than upon death and your heirs are already well into retirement. Having said that, I pondered the route to charity for a couple of years and finally found a great way that satisfied both my wishes and gave me confidence that I have donated to good hands. Perhaps it's something for those in similarly comfortable retirement to hear about.

After a lot of investigations I found out that my alma mater (also the alma mater for all my kids, one son-in-law and even DW!) has a great program for handling durable (enduring? forever?) endowments. Basically the money you give buys units (like in a Mutual Fund that the college administers). Each year the managers check the fund's performance over the last 3 years and they determine a percentage that can be cashed out such that the remaining units keep pace with inflation. The college's endowment fund is well into 10 figures, so they ought to have decent financial management . In 2016 the withdrawal rate was 4.5%. Sounds so BH :happy The college tells you how many units you "own" and follows your previously documented wishes as to how "your" cash for that year is spent. My endowment was for several MSc bursaries annually and they send me the names of the recipients annually. Nice thing is that "my" endowment, since everything is now established with all the legal stuff out of the way, can absorb any amount of money I wish to add in the future, or even upon my demise. Of course it's double nice that college endowment investment funds are not taxed. They are also tax deductible for those who pay personal taxes. Since I am in a no-personal-tax jurisdiction, I could not benefit therefrom. I wish there were similar programs available for family trusts. Minimal paperwork, robust management, assurance of continuity, etc.

Gnirk
Posts: 616
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:11 am
Location: Western Washington

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby Gnirk » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:00 am

My late mother gifted the maximum allowed without triggering a gift tax return, to each of her adult grandchildren for 8 years, with the understanding that they would spend 10%, fully fund a Roth IRA, and put the remainder into an emergency fund or offset increased 401K contribution depending upon their circumstances. All of them were very responsible and extremely grateful.

michaeljc70
Posts: 1489
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:53 pm

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby michaeljc70 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:08 am

msk wrote:Personally I prefer "giving" while I am alive and the investments are still "mine". Once I die I own nothing and it costs me nothing to give it away. Not quite the same as when you are alive and may still hanker for a yacht, or a beach house, or a Rolls Royce, or whatever turns on older idle minds. For people who live into their nineties it's perhaps unnecessarily awkward not to give handouts to your heirs when they are in greatest need, in their 30s to 50s (?), rather than upon death and your heirs are already well into retirement. Having said that, I pondered the route to charity for a couple of years and finally found a great way that satisfied both my wishes and gave me confidence that I have donated to good hands. Perhaps it's something for those in similarly comfortable retirement to hear about.

After a lot of investigations I found out that my alma mater (also the alma mater for all my kids, one son-in-law and even DW!) has a great program for handling durable (enduring? forever?) endowments. Basically the money you give buys units (like in a Mutual Fund that the college administers). Each year the managers check the fund's performance over the last 3 years and they determine a percentage that can be cashed out such that the remaining units keep pace with inflation. The college's endowment fund is well into 10 figures, so they ought to have decent financial management . In 2016 the withdrawal rate was 4.5%. Sounds so BH :happy The college tells you how many units you "own" and follows your previously documented wishes as to how "your" cash for that year is spent. My endowment was for several MSc bursaries annually and they send me the names of the recipients annually. Nice thing is that "my" endowment, since everything is now established with all the legal stuff out of the way, can absorb any amount of money I wish to add in the future, or even upon my demise. Of course it's double nice that college endowment investment funds are not taxed. They are also tax deductible for those who pay personal taxes. Since I am in a no-personal-tax jurisdiction, I could not benefit therefrom. I wish there were similar programs available for family trusts. Minimal paperwork, robust management, assurance of continuity, etc.


Sounds like you have a good plan for yourself. Maybe it is just me, but I have zero interest in leaving money to my alma mater. I had good grades and test scores (and even graduated from HS early) and my family had no money. Any money that was given to me for college from grandparents was counted against me. I did get some scholarship money after that was spent and took out loans for the rest. I don't feel like they did anything special for me given my situation. I realize it is probably more the whole system than my alma mater that this occurred. Also, many schools have these huge endowments and use withdrawal rates way below your alma mater. At least you are able to earmark your money for a certain cause and it isn't going to make dorm rooms look like boutique hotels and add lazy river pools to the campus.

msk
Posts: 309
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:40 am

Re: Divesting to heirs. When and how quickly.

Postby msk » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:14 pm

In principle I am not giving to my alma mater, but to the students who receive the bursaries. I had to be self supporting from the age of 19 and there is a limit to how much a kid can earn from part time work and summer jobs. I will be eternally grateful to the many unknown donors who provided me sufficient scholarships that enabled me to progress all the way to a doctorate and nil loans. I picked specifically MSc students for my bursaries because I was looking for a cascade effect, students who are very likely to to do well in life, already proven themselves at the BSc level, but at a juncture when bursaries are not plentiful. For PhD students there are generally multiple programs that help out, without having to take loans. Despite being an absolute pauper I consider my grad student days to have been the happiest of my life (met DW there...). Experiences vary...


Return to “Personal Finance (Not Investing)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: abkm, adamthesmythe, EATaxGuy, JohnFiscal, outbackcountry, PatrickA5, rhoms33, Rupert, shorty313, Silk McCue, Swansea, Texanbybirth, tyrion, William104, Yahoo [Bot] and 115 guests