Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
mirror
Posts: 88
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:24 pm

Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by mirror » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:25 am

I have been through 4 rounds of interviews with the same potential employer and now they want to set up another interview (with the same people). This tells me that either: a) they are indecisive, b) they have concerns about my qualifications, c) they are stringing me along as a backup until they can find a better candidate, or d) some combination of the above. I could understand if it were different people each time, but since it is with the same people this threw up a big red flag to me. Would you agree?
There are two types of people: those that can extrapolate from incomplete data.

ved
Posts: 632
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:56 pm

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by ved » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:28 am

Probably. But, what do you have to lose?

User avatar
kramer
Posts: 1543
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:28 am
Location: Philippines

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by kramer » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:31 am

What industry are you in and what type of position?

slbnoob
Posts: 430
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:31 pm

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by slbnoob » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:32 am

ved wrote:Probably. But, what do you have to lose?

If I were the OP, I would say:
1) taking days off from work,
2) opportunity cost of not redirecting time/effort elsewhere,
3) mental agony of not reaching a conclusion to the invested time/effort.

mirror
Posts: 88
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:24 pm

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by mirror » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:35 am

ved wrote:Probably. But, what do you have to lose?


Other than wasting time/energy/resources, it makes me question whether that is the type of organization that I want to join (if an offer ever came).
There are two types of people: those that can extrapolate from incomplete data.

User avatar
flossy21
Posts: 363
Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 2:04 pm

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by flossy21 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:46 am

mirror wrote:I have been through 4 rounds of interviews with the same potential employer and now they want to set up another interview (with the same people). This tells me that either: a) they are indecisive, b) they have concerns about my qualifications, c) they are stringing me along as a backup until they can find a better candidate, or d) some combination of the above. I could understand if it were different people each time, but since it is with the same people this threw up a big red flag to me. Would you agree?


1.) Are you currently employed? If not then I would go along with their plans because you are not in a position to dictate the next steps. If so then I would move to #2.

2.) You didn't say whether or not you are working through an outside recruiter, in house recruiter or directly with the hiring authority. In any case I would politely ask the person to provide a detailed outline of the purpose of this meeting. Are there concerns about your abilities, motivation, or experience? If so what are they? Based on these answers you can prepare a plan to cover these issues and provide SPECIFIC EXAMPLES to refute the concerns.

Good luck with your interview either way.

hlfo718
Posts: 756
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:17 am
Location: NYC

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by hlfo718 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:49 am

I went through the same twice. One company I interview 4 times and had 2 lunches with them and they decided not to hire anyone. This dragged out for about a month.

The second company I had 5 interviews and finally rec'd offer. The first company I didn't use a recruiter while the 2nd company I did. I complained to the recruiter and told him before the 5th interview that I won't be back for a 6th interview.

mirror
Posts: 88
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:24 pm

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by mirror » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:52 am

flossy21 wrote:
mirror wrote:1.) Are you currently employed? If not then I would go along with their plans because you are not in a position to dictate the next steps. If so then I would move to #2.

2.) You didn't say whether or not you are working through an outside recruiter, in house recruiter or directly with the hiring authority. In any case I would politely ask the person to provide a detailed outline of the purpose of this meeting. Are there concerns about your abilities, motivation, or experience? If so what are they? Based on these answers you can prepare a plan to cover these issues and provide SPECIFIC EXAMPLES to refute the concerns.

Good luck with your interview either way.


1)Yes I am currently employed.
2) In house recruiter. That was my thinking as well.
There are two types of people: those that can extrapolate from incomplete data.

fishmonger
Posts: 422
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:20 pm

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by fishmonger » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:56 am

Sorry to hear, it baffles me when companies do this, it seems to be mostly mega corps. I've never experienced it myself, so take my opinion for what it's worth. Unless you REALLY want this job (dream position, etc), I would tell your contact professionally that you are still very excited about the opportunity, but cannot take anymore time away from your current job. Maybe leave an opening that you would be happy to answer any additional questions over the phone.

I always hated making up excuses to my current employer when I was interviewing for a new position. Can't imagine having to do it 4 or 5 times in short succession

bberris
Posts: 697
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:44 am

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by bberris » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:03 pm

This usually happens when the direct boss wants you, but he can't convince the higher ups that you are the right one, or that they need the help, or both.

I agree with asking on the phone what other information you can provide them with.

Another rather sad explanation is that they are trying to pry confidential information out of you. Do not cooperate with this. Aside from the ethical and legal objection, they would never hire someone who violated secrecy. Just say no.

ved
Posts: 632
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:56 pm

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by ved » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:07 pm

mirror wrote:
ved wrote:Probably. But, what do you have to lose?


Other than wasting time/energy/resources, it makes me question whether that is the type of organization that I want to join (if an offer ever came).


Well, then, that's up to you to decide, if it is worth it to pursue any further.
I look at interviews as a way to get to know people that I would work for, and that work for me. Multiple interviews would give both parties a chance to delve deeper into compatibility factors.

If you currently don't have a job, then it would be silly to reject them before even getting an offer.
If you do have a job, but are testing the waters, then, use this as a practice...you can tell them you can meet/talk only after hours and/or on a specific day, etc. to minimize your inconvenience.

I once interviewed for almost a full year with a company. It was a lot of fun for me to discuss their challenges and how to approach them.

User avatar
Sandtrap
Posts: 1641
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:32 pm
Location: HawaiišŸ˜€ Northern AZ.šŸ˜³

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by Sandtrap » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:13 pm

Scenarios:
1
They did not call you for another interview. Turned you down. Zero options after that.
2
They call you in for another interview. Costs you nothing. May pay off big time and worth the effort. No way to know unless you go.
3
Turn down the interview. Same as #1. Zero options.
4
Complain and put up contingencies for this upcoming interview "on your terms". Probably same result as #1. Their court. Their ball.
Not a financial expert - just a retired businessman hacking out of a sand trap -- again.

edge
Posts: 3214
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:44 pm
Location: Great Falls VA

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by edge » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:27 pm

Lots of companies are like this. You basically have to go along with it with a big fat smile on your face. The only time you have actual leverage is when they move to an offer. And when you have leverage, use it. Companies that have horribly long and inefficient hiring practices also suffer from the fact that when you finally get an offer, resetting that and starting with a new candidate is a terrible position for them.

In the meantime you need to be working on your BATNA, which is typically another offer.
Last edited by edge on Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Capsu78
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 10:30 am

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by Capsu78 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:40 pm

My wife went through 13 face and phone interviews for a executive level position in a tech company. The big red flag was then never getting her salary history. She was candidate #2. 3 weeks ago they called again, saying changes were being discussed- would she care to be a candidate. She said "yes" (SOP) , but we have not heard another contact since!
Obviously she likes the company and opportunity enough to keep communications open.

Jags4186
Posts: 1278
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:12 pm

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by Jags4186 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:48 pm

Tough spot to be in. I was recruited by a former coworker to a new company. I went on 5 interviews. Was then taken out to a nice dinner by the former coworker which I thought was a "pre offer welcome to the club dinner". Never heard from them again.

Unless you really need the job, it's a position you really really want, or it's not terribly inconvenient for you to go on the interview I'd move along.

badger42
Posts: 166
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:01 am

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by badger42 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:58 pm

This is really common with big (household name) tech companies.

Sometimes they need to sell you to higher ups. Sometimes one interviewer came back with negative feedback, and they need to evaluate if the negative was "real" or not. Sometimes they are interviewing you for position A, and then realize you're a better fit for B, and the process effectively starts over.

Also, the higher up the food chain you are, the more this sort of thing tends to happen. New grad software engineers are a quick yes/no; for something like a senior manager, director, or tech lead type role - you should expect multiple rounds with multiple sets of stakeholders.

User avatar
Pajamas
Posts: 2519
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:32 pm

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by Pajamas » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:01 pm

Multiple layers of long tough interviews, including group interviews, are common in some fields. But if they are circling around in the process with repeat interviews, it's definitely a red flag that something is wrong with their interview process if not the entire organization.

I would probably ask WHY you need a second interview with the same person or group because that is something they should have told you when they requested it, and then decide based on the response.

An organization that has such little respect for potential employees as to ask for a repeat interview with no reason given probably has even less respect for current ones and will expect cheerful and passive compliance with all sorts of tomfoolery.

mouses
Posts: 2169
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:24 am

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by mouses » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:23 pm

Only once have I been on the endless cycle of interviews with a company cycle and they eventually just faded away. I have no idea what was going on, my guess is some internal mess.

I would tactfully explain to your primary contact that it is getting difficult for you to take this many days from work, and ask what you can do to move things towards a decision. How flexible I would be would depend on how much I wanted the job, but at some point, enough is enough, and seeing the same people over and over again (twice is okay, imho) gets to be nuts.

KlangFool
Posts: 6727
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by KlangFool » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:24 pm

OP,

Just say no. Ask the recruiter why new interviews are necessary. If you say yes, it means that you are a pushover and nowhere else to go.

KlangFool

KlangFool
Posts: 6727
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by KlangFool » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:29 pm

OP,

From my extensive experience of job hunting and interviews across many years (both as candidates and hiring manager), it does not take long to decide whether you want to hire someone. Long and repeated interviews do not work out.

The only one time that it works out is the employer explicitly say that they want me and they are creating a position to fit me in. The 4 rounds of interviews with 8 persons were used to see where do I fit in.

KlangFool

User avatar
flamesabers
Posts: 1349
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:05 pm
Location: Rochester, MN

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by flamesabers » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:31 pm

OP,

I agree with the other posters about asking why additional interviews are necessary. Especially after four rounds of interviews, the organization should be able to give you a firm yes or no as to whether you're getting a job offer.

Pajamas wrote:Multiple layers of long tough interviews, including group interviews, are common in some fields. But if they are circling around in the process with repeat interviews, it's definitely a red flag that something is wrong with their interview process if not the entire organization.


I agree. First impressions during the interview process is a two-way street.

When an organization drags its feet in a manner like this, it makes you wonder if the organization really wants to hire you or not.

tim1999
Posts: 3311
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:16 am

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by tim1999 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:43 pm

Where I work, it's a minimum of a phone screen with a recruiter from HR, a panel interview with the people you would be working with, and a smaller interview with just your potential boss as well as his boss. It's a megacorp and the hiring process moves at a glacial pace. Phone screen to your first day can take upwards of 3 months unless there is a real standout candidate.

RoadHouseFan
Posts: 279
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2016 6:55 pm

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by RoadHouseFan » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:45 pm

KlangFool wrote:OP,

Just say no. Ask the recruiter why new interviews are necessary. If you say yes, it means that you are a pushover and nowhere else to go.

KlangFool


This is correct. Send the recruiter an email stating that you are not available for additional interviews.

Rich in Michigan
Posts: 164
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:27 pm

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by Rich in Michigan » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:58 pm

How many of the four were face to face?

If some of them were phone interviews, then it might not be too terrible. In general, I would say that a repeat face to face interview with the same people indicates a hiring manager that is indecisive. They might have two finalists that are close, but they should have been able to separate them on the previous round of interviewing. Again, indecision from the hiring manager.

At any point in the process did you ask for the job outright? I always looked for that in my candidates....something like "The opportunity sounds great. I want the job and I want to work for your company. What is the next step?"

At any point in the process did you ask "what is your timeframe for making a decision?"

If you want the job, it doesn't hurt to interview again. However, it is a two way street; at some point their actions can turn off a candidate.

KlangFool
Posts: 6727
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by KlangFool » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:06 pm

OP,

1) I was hired by one of the largest company in the world after 2 rounds of phone interviews by 2 individuals (peer and hiring manager). The offer was given in less than 2 weeks.

2) Meanwhile, I had 2 rounds of face-to-face interviews with several persons with a smaller megacorp across 3 months. They did not update me after 3 months. I had to email them in order to get an answer.

KlangFool

remomnyc
Posts: 306
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:27 pm

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by remomnyc » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:11 pm

I had endless interviews over many months before I finally got an offer. I found out afterward that the company wanted me early on but had decided I was overqualified for the position and was seeking approval to hire me at higher level. The endless interviews were to keep me engaged while they were seeking approval to upgrade the position. Even though I was employed at the time, I consented to the endless interviews because I really liked the firm and was able to interview during my lunchtime.

TOJ
Posts: 325
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:19 pm

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by TOJ » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:13 pm

Maybe they want to give you the offer and negotiate it in person? This must be a high paid position, so it may be worth it for one last time. Surely the people interviewing you also see all of this as wasted time as well.

User avatar
flamesabers
Posts: 1349
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:05 pm
Location: Rochester, MN

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by flamesabers » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:14 pm

tim1999 wrote:Where I work, it's a minimum of a phone screen with a recruiter from HR, a panel interview with the people you would be working with, and a smaller interview with just your potential boss as well as his boss. It's a megacorp and the hiring process moves at a glacial pace. Phone screen to your first day can take upwards of 3 months unless there is a real standout candidate.


The one type of job I can think of that would need a lengthy interview process is a government job that requires a top-secret security clearance. Obviously the government would want to be very careful with ensuring the applicant is truly a stellar and ethical individual before granting access to such sensitive information and technology to the applicant.

inbox788
Posts: 4099
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:24 pm

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by inbox788 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:51 pm

flamesabers wrote:The one type of job I can think of that would need a lengthy interview process is a government job that requires a top-secret security clearance. Obviously the government would want to be very careful with ensuring the applicant is truly a stellar and ethical individual before granting access to such sensitive information and technology to the applicant.

There are industry jobs where this type of attention is also needed, especially at higher levels.

OP, I wouldn't read too much into it or jump to any conclusions. What level are you applying for and what level are these folks? If you were applying for a CEO and meeting with 4 board members, I don't think it's too much. If you're applying for upper management and 3/4 are going to be working for you, then it might be excessive. Are you still meeting with HR folks? That's just administrative at this stage, so long as you don't do something foolish(i.e. say something inappropriate) .

What's been the nature of the previous interviews? By the third one, what did you talk about? Were you given a process or timeline at the beginning? And has it deviated? Have you asked? Were you asked to do anything between interviews?

mirror
Posts: 88
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:24 pm

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by mirror » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:02 pm

Rich in Michigan wrote:How many of the four were face to face?

If some of them were phone interviews, then it might not be too terrible. In general, I would say that a repeat face to face interview with the same people indicates a hiring manager that is indecisive. They might have two finalists that are close, but they should have been able to separate them on the previous round of interviewing. Again, indecision from the hiring manager.

At any point in the process did you ask for the job outright? I always looked for that in my candidates....something like "The opportunity sounds great. I want the job and I want to work for your company. What is the next step?"

At any point in the process did you ask "what is your timeframe for making a decision?"

If you want the job, it doesn't hurt to interview again. However, it is a two way street; at some point their actions can turn off a candidate.


One was a phone interview.

Each time they have given me a time frame it is never met. After the phone interview "we'll reach out in the next few days" it took two weeks, after the second interview "we'll be letting candidates know after a week," it took nearly a month to hear back (after following up several times), etc. At the most recent interview the HR person couldn't give me a definite timeline of next steps.

I found the job on X job search website a while back. I saw just it listed on Y job search website with the posting date of today. This leads me to believe they are still searching for the right candidate.
There are two types of people: those that can extrapolate from incomplete data.

KlangFool
Posts: 6727
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by KlangFool » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:20 pm

mirror wrote:
Rich in Michigan wrote:How many of the four were face to face?

If some of them were phone interviews, then it might not be too terrible. In general, I would say that a repeat face to face interview with the same people indicates a hiring manager that is indecisive. They might have two finalists that are close, but they should have been able to separate them on the previous round of interviewing. Again, indecision from the hiring manager.

At any point in the process did you ask for the job outright? I always looked for that in my candidates....something like "The opportunity sounds great. I want the job and I want to work for your company. What is the next step?"

At any point in the process did you ask "what is your timeframe for making a decision?"

If you want the job, it doesn't hurt to interview again. However, it is a two way street; at some point their actions can turn off a candidate.


One was a phone interview.

Each time they have given me a time frame it is never met. After the phone interview "we'll reach out in the next few days" it took two weeks, after the second interview "we'll be letting candidates know after a week," it took nearly a month to hear back (after following up several times), etc. At the most recent interview the HR person couldn't give me a definite timeline of next steps.

I found the job on X job search website a while back. I saw just it listed on Y job search website with the posting date of today. This leads me to believe they are still searching for the right candidate.


mirror,

Why would you want to work for people that do not show proper respect for your time and effort? If they cannot keep a simple promise like getting back to you at the agreed upon deadline, why do you think they could treat you with proper respect when you work for them?

Time to cut your losses.

KlangFool

Hypersion
Posts: 180
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:20 am

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by Hypersion » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:42 pm

I'm 37 years old and the multiply interview has been pretty standard since I was a teenage. I remember going to three different interviews for a part time minimum wage fast food job.
Last edited by Hypersion on Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
8foot7
Posts: 570
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:29 pm

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by 8foot7 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:21 pm

I'd probably give them the benefit of he doubt on this next one and then draw a line in the sand. During this interview, be a closer. "I want an offer, x, and here's why." Ask for a specific timeframe and politely note that this is the fifth interview. Something like "I appreciate the diligence in hiring here! I hope after our five experiences together that I've proven I could be a real valuable asset to you." Make it clear you expect an offer or a decline at the next step. If you are one of two candidates left and someone is being indecisive, they'll get the message.

2015
Posts: 775
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:32 pm

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by 2015 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:35 pm

badger42 wrote:This is really common with big (household name) tech companies.

Sometimes they need to sell you to higher ups. Sometimes one interviewer came back with negative feedback, and they need to evaluate if the negative was "real" or not. Sometimes they are interviewing you for position A, and then realize you're a better fit for B, and the process effectively starts over.

Also, the higher up the food chain you are, the more this sort of thing tends to happen. New grad software engineers are a quick yes/no; for something like a senior manager, director, or tech lead type role - you should expect multiple rounds with multiple sets of stakeholders.


Spot on. The red flag is that you are having multiple interviews with the same people. This says some of the so-called "stakeholders" aren't on board with your hire. BB (big boss) may be letting these "stakeholders" interview you again so that when he eventually overrides them they'll feel like they had "input" into the process. Question: if hired, do you think these reluctant "stakeholders" will turn out to be good co-workers? Multiple interviews with the same "stakeholders" might also foreshadow a group that can't come to a decision, among other possibly hidden unhealthy group/team/organizational dynamics. Proceed with caution.

User avatar
rob
Posts: 2826
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:49 pm
Location: Here

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by rob » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:37 pm

edge wrote:Lots of companies are like this. You basically have to go along with it with a big fat smile on your face. The only time you have actual leverage is when they move to an offer. And when you have leverage, use it. Companies that have horribly long and inefficient hiring practices also suffer from the fact that when you finally get an offer, resetting that and starting with a new candidate is a terrible position for them.

This.... If your interested in the job play the game. In a large company it's not always indicative of the place you work - just the hiring process. Then sometimes it is :oops:

The new one for trendy companies is to pay you for a week and decide at the end of the week (makes it a little hard for someone with an actual job already).... The ultimate in non-decisiveness hidden under a trendy vibe :twisted:
| Rob | Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien

jlawrence01
Posts: 1261
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:34 am
Location: Southern AZ

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by jlawrence01 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:34 pm

My two rules of interviewing and hiring:

1) If a company treats you like garbage BEFORE the hire, it only gets worse once you are hired.

2) If the applicant is not happy with the offer and it is a high as you are going to go, it is better to reject the applicant than to hire him and have him leave in a couple of months.

sambb
Posts: 1699
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:31 pm

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by sambb » Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:41 pm

I would also submit the chance that one of the references has added some "off the record" information that changed the interviewer's view of the applicant. Seen this a few times.

rralex1
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:21 pm

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by rralex1 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:34 pm

mirror wrote:I have been through 4 rounds of interviews with the same potential employer and now they want to set up another interview (with the same people). This tells me that either: a) they are indecisive, b) they have concerns about my qualifications, c) they are stringing me along as a backup until they can find a better candidate, or d) some combination of the above. I could understand if it were different people each time, but since it is with the same people this threw up a big red flag to me. Would you agree?


I believe your assessment is solid. Having been through this on the hiring and applying side many times in my career (multiple interviews- up to 5) the difference in what you write, and my experience is underlined above.

In my opinion it is likely that they are not trying to find a reason to hire you. They are trying to find (at least someone in the hiring process is trying to prove and validate) a reason to exclude you for some reason/reasons. They, or someone in the process is not convinced.

Having gone this far in the process, if this is a company that I wanted to be a part of (not sure I would be but if) I would continue. I would however, have a series of very specific questions prepared that go along the lines of the following. What will it take to be hired for this position? etc etc. This in my view will be the last interview and I would not hold back any questions (respectful questions). Often times in these types of situations there is an "imperfect" internal candidate that is also in the mix. It would be fair to be specific and ask what other candidates are in consideration.

In summary, it would be time to get to the point, respectfully..and as they say in the South it would be time to fish or cut bait..and again, I believe your assessment is spot on.

Wishing you well.

2015
Posts: 775
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:32 pm

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by 2015 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:55 pm

rob wrote:
edge wrote:Lots of companies are like this. You basically have to go along with it with a big fat smile on your face. The only time you have actual leverage is when they move to an offer. And when you have leverage, use it. Companies that have horribly long and inefficient hiring practices also suffer from the fact that when you finally get an offer, resetting that and starting with a new candidate is a terrible position for them.

This.... If your interested in the job play the game. In a large company it's not always indicative of the place you work - just the hiring process. Then sometimes it is :oops:

The new one for trendy companies is to pay you for a week and decide at the end of the week (makes it a little hard for someone with an actual job already).... The ultimate in non-decisiveness hidden under a trendy vibe :twisted:


Actually, it's exactly indicative of the hiring manager as well as the "stakeholders" involved in the hiring process. If this involves fellow future team members as well as future internal clients, interviewing with any of them on more than one occasion is at a minimum a yellow flag. The higher one rises in an organization the more slimy/slippery everything becomes and the more what is not said is vastly more important than what is said. Performance, while important, loses significance in comparison to the ability to navigate the game of "stakeholder" poker. Rules, culture, handbooks, methodologies, compensation, benefits, perks all have an uncanny ability to dissolve and no longer apply once one reaches upper levels of an organization.

"Trendy" Zappos-type "I'll pay you $2K to leave now" organizations make for great company publicity and CEO photo-ops, but there is a lot more to that proposition than meets the public eye. It's best to view such sound bites with a jaundiced eye.

FedGuy
Posts: 1161
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:36 pm

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by FedGuy » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:48 pm

It sounds to me like they decided to hire someone else, it didn't work out for whatever reason, and now they have to essentially start over because they hadn't come to an agreement on who their Plan B was.

sallymaynot
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:26 pm

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by sallymaynot » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:51 pm

Why not tell them you're too busy juggling your current position and interviewing at other companies?

Or you could say you have concerns about the efficiency of their HR department - it's not cost effective to interview candidates this much.

User avatar
dm200
Posts: 13177
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:21 pm
Location: Washington DC area

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by dm200 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:54 pm

In my opinion and experience (both good and bad), there may be several reasons for this. If they, eventually, do offer a position, I would not assume anything (good or bad) about the company/position based on dragging this out. One possibility is that one (or more) of the principals in the hiring process had a bad experience and is a bit "gun shy". Another possibility is that there are very different opinions of the various folks involved. Who knows? Another possibility is that some aspect of the hiring process has changed during this time.

User avatar
jabberwockOG
Posts: 968
Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 7:23 am

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by jabberwockOG » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:12 am

If you really want to work for this company grin and bear it and go to the interview. A second interview with same folks might mean you made the short list and this is final round of interviews or it could mean the hire team are clue-free bozos, likely impossible to tell until after hire. There is a lot of variance and little to no standards in this HR function, some companies, regardless of size or reputation, do way too many interviews, while others do shockingly few interviews for their hires.

inbox788
Posts: 4099
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:24 pm

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by inbox788 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:00 am

mirror wrote:One was a phone interview.

Each time they have given me a time frame it is never met. After the phone interview "we'll reach out in the next few days" it took two weeks, after the second interview "we'll be letting candidates know after a week," it took nearly a month to hear back (after following up several times), etc. At the most recent interview the HR person couldn't give me a definite timeline of next steps.

I found the job on X job search website a while back. I saw just it listed on Y job search website with the posting date of today. This leads me to believe they are still searching for the right candidate.

A phone interview is usually simply a screening. I wouldn't count that as an interview. Was that with all the same folks or just one person or just HR? How long was the phone call? Still that leaves 3 other interviews. How long where these? Were they all long and with same multiple people, or was there a different focus in each round? Are some of these individuals having a tough time finding time to do interviews?

Do you have a major deficiency they're seeking? Missing on a critical skill or sufficient experience? Does the role involve managing people?

You might not be the ideal candidate, but they might never find their ideal candidate and after enough time, they may settle on you. Maybe they have doubts you are cut out for the job. Do you think this is going to be an easy adjustment for you or will this be a challenging move for you?

User avatar
rob
Posts: 2826
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:49 pm
Location: Here

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by rob » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:54 am

2015 wrote:Actually, it's exactly indicative of the hiring manager as well as the "stakeholders" involved in the hiring process.

I've been on the hiring side of this banging my head on red tape mostly from HR but also from higher up wanabees - it's not always the hiring manager or the team they would be working :D It's a red flag for sure..... hence my comment that sometimes it's exactly what it looks like.

2015 wrote:"Trendy" Zappos-type "I'll pay you $2K to leave now" organizations make for great company publicity and CEO photo-ops, but there is a lot more to that proposition than meets the public eye. It's best to view such sound bites with a jaundiced eye.

Not what I was talking about.... It's the let's bring the applicant in for a week and decide at the end of the week....
| Rob | Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien

mayday23
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:29 am

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by mayday23 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:56 pm

I had a situation where I was the hiring manager and i brought back 2 individuals (separately) for 3rd round of interviews when we only were planning on 2.

Basically we liked both candidates and were leaning towards "Bob." One stakeholder wasn't completely sure, so we bought Bob back in for a 3rd to get the remaining stakeholder comfortable.

We communicated this to the recruiter and I believe he told the candidate, but you never know what's lost in translation.

I'm someone to interviews for new jobs relatively frequently. I understand the frustration, but it's also a good opportunity for another touchpoint to see if YOU like the company and would be a good fit for their culture.

2015
Posts: 775
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:32 pm

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by 2015 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:14 pm

You know that stupid obligatory question all robotic interviewers ask at the end of every interview, "do you have any questions?"

Do not throw this opportunity away. There are two ways to approach this "closing" part of your interview. First, if you are lucky enough to find a position with a good team and what looks like a good boss within a worthwhile organization, you want to use this often times rote interviewer's question to position yourself in his/their minds as already working there (a typical sales closing technique). Some good question candidates are:

1) If I were working here, what's the first thing I would be working on?
2) Once I began working here, what results would you expect from me and in what time frame?
3) Were I hired, what advice would you give me?

OTOH, if you're unlucky (IMO) enough to be in OP's position and having to be wondering just what these people are up to, again, you don't want to throw away the often routinely trained interviewer's "do you have any questions" opportunity. You want to clarify exactly what you're walking into culture wise, (without offending anyone, of course).

Some questions to ask in any situation where you suspect culture issues might exist:

1) What issues have you (the interviewer) personally had with respect to keeping stakeholders in the organization happy?
2) All organizations experience internal conflict from time to time. How is conflict within this organization expected to be managed?
3) In what way might I not succeed here, and what advice would you give me to overcome that?

Effective organizations treat final candidates with great respect. After all, by the time someone has become a final candidate a great deal of time, attention, and overhead has gone into the process. Further, you never know if one of those final (usually top 3) candidates might be just the one who comes in with breakthrough performance. A good process communicates to the candidate throughout and does not leave them wondering. If you have to bring a candidate for multiple interviews with the same stakeholders, you, as a hiring manager, are expected to demonstrate your level of competency in this process by having someone communicate the reason for this. Otherwise, you run the danger of looking like just another schmuck who doesn't know what he's doing. As a hiring manager, it's your responsibility and your process. Own it.

User avatar
nedsaid
Posts: 8501
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:33 pm

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by nedsaid » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:43 pm

It is really appalling how poorly companies treat their job candidates. Most of the time when you don't make the cut, you never hear back. Just silence. To me, that is incredibly rude particularly when they say they will get back to you. Even finalists for a job are met with silence if not selected. It is also a signal that it is still an employer's market out there. They can still pick and choose from among their candidates. The 5% unemployment number that is cited is just not true, we are not at full employment as some economists claim.
A fool and his money are good for business.

User avatar
DaftInvestor
Posts: 2941
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:11 am

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by DaftInvestor » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:51 pm

How do they explain it to you?
You have a right to "kindly" ask them what their process is and where they are in the process.
Have you asked them if this is the final step of their process and if you will be getting an offer shortly after this interview?
You can also ask how you compare to other candidate, etc.

They wouldn't waste their time to continue to talk to you if they weren't interested.
I've been with companies whereby we do multi-stage interviews with the same people but we would absolutely explain the steps to each candidate. For example:
Step 1: Interview with 3 people - each for a different reason (explain the reason and expectations of each).
Step 2: Return to interview in a "final round" whereby you will be asked deeper questions in a group format.
Only final 2 candidates get to Step 2 so you have a 50% chance of getting an offer the day after Step 2.

Just ask them....

User avatar
DaftInvestor
Posts: 2941
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:11 am

Re: Endless Job Interviews (with same company)

Post by DaftInvestor » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:55 pm

nedsaid wrote:It is really appalling how poorly companies treat their job candidates. Most of the time when you don't make the cut, you never hear back. Just silence. To me, that is incredibly rude particularly when they say they will get back to you. Even finalists for a job are met with silence if not selected. It is also a signal that it is still an employer's market out there. They can still pick and choose from among their candidates. The 5% unemployment number that is cited is just not true, we are not at full employment as some economists claim.


The last 4 companies I worked for (including current) get back to EVERY candidate that comes in for an interview.
In my opinion - if the company doesn't get back to you - its not a company that treats people well and not where you want to be working.

Post Reply