Trying to transfer a Roth IRA and this Medallion Signature requirement is driving me nuts!

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retiredjg
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Re: Trying to transfer a Roth IRA and this Medallion Signature requirement is driving me nuts!

Post by retiredjg » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:09 pm

41fan wrote:..... in addition to the cheaper e/r on the Total Market Index fund.
Don't let this be part of your decision. The difference is probably a few cups of fancy coffee a year.

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Re: Trying to transfer a Roth IRA and this Medallion Signature requirement is driving me nuts!

Post by 41fan » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:17 pm

retiredjg wrote:
41fan wrote:..... in addition to the cheaper e/r on the Total Market Index fund.
Don't let this be part of your decision. The difference is probably a few cups of fancy coffee a year.
That wouldn't be the deciding factor, but the $100 bonus that Schwab has for my portfolio size would be nice. Fidelity doesn't offer incentives for a portfolio smaller than $25,000.

Also, Schwab is the only one with a local branch in case I ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, have to go see someone and get a Medallion signature.

But Fidelity has that 2% cashback rewards Visa...

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Kevin M
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Re: Trying to transfer a Roth IRA and this Medallion Signature requirement is driving me nuts!

Post by Kevin M » Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:25 pm

41fan wrote: Also, Schwab is the only one with a local branch in case I ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY, have to go see someone and get a Medallion signature.

But Fidelity has that 2% cashback rewards Visa...
Make sure your local Schwab office will do the signature guarantee for you. I would assume so, but I'd check.

Don't know about now, but you used to be able to get the Fidelity 2% card (then AMEX) without a brokerage account. Getting the cash back was more of a hassle though.

Kevin
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Trying to transfer a Roth IRA and this Medallion Signature requirement is driving me nuts!

Post by BrandonBogle » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:03 am

41fan wrote: But Fidelity has that 2% cashback rewards Visa...
Kevin M wrote: Don't know about now, but you used to be able to get the Fidelity 2% card (then AMEX) without a brokerage account. Getting the cash back was more of a hassle though.
Also of note is that the Fidelity Visa should ideally be set up to redeem to a taxable account instead of an IRA (though I suppose this isn't a problem if you aren't maxing out the IRA anyways though). As such, you can open an account at Fidelity with almost nothing in it and use the 2% visa with automatic redemption into the brokerage account. I have $77.33 sitting in my Fidelity Brokerage account and have earned at least a thousand from the Visa card.

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Re: Trying to transfer a Roth IRA and this Medallion Signature requirement is driving me nuts!

Post by Kevin M » Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:28 pm

BrandonBogle wrote: Also of note is that the Fidelity Visa should ideally be set up to redeem to a taxable account instead of an IRA (though I suppose this isn't a problem if you aren't maxing out the IRA anyways though). As such, you can open an account at Fidelity with almost nothing in it and use the 2% visa with automatic redemption into the brokerage account. I have $77.33 sitting in my Fidelity Brokerage account and have earned at least a thousand from the Visa card.
I was going to say that my wife has had less than $25 in her Fidelity brokerage account for years, but I just checked and she's had a couple of cash back deposits in the last few months, so she's got a whopping $212.78 in the account now. I'll have to mention it to her.

As I recall, we left a small amount in the account to avoid an account closing fee; using it to receive her cash back deposits was a side-benefit.

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Re: Trying to transfer a Roth IRA and this Medallion Signature requirement is driving me nuts!

Post by 41fan » Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:19 pm

Update from the OP:

Well I finally called Victory Funds today and asked them what, specifically, I needed to do to transfer my Roth IRA to another custodian.
The lady on the phone said they would need to receive transfer papers from the other custodian.

Me: "Transfer papers from the other custodian? Is that all?"
Her: "Wait, we'll also need a Medallion Signature from you."
Me: "You WILL need a Medallion Signature? I don't have access to one where I live."
Her: "Your bank will give you one."
Me: "Wrong answer. I tried that."
Her: "Wait - no, we don't require that anymore. We used to, but now we don't."
Me: "Huh? So now you DON'T require a Medallion Signature? Can I get an email to that effect to show my future custodian?"
Her: "Correct, we do NOT require it anymore."
Me: "How recent was this change? Is everyone there aware that the requirement is no more? BC my future custodian sent paperwork to you within the past month, and it was refused because it didn't contain a Medallion signature."
Her: "Oh, we changed that requirement within the past week. So they would need to re-send the transferring paperwork."
Me: :annoyed

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Re: Trying to transfer a Roth IRA and this Medallion Signature requirement is driving me nuts!

Post by NotWhoYouThink » Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:49 pm

Enough to make you pull you hair out.

Some people have the time and temperament to deal with these nagging aggravations. Congratulations on being one of them. I worry about those who can't spend the time chasing down these crazy policies, of just can't stay organized enough to stay on top of it. Many would have given up on the move by now, which I am convinced is what some of these companies want. And then I see another story about Aunt Sue siphoning off Granny's money, and realize that all these policies were put in place for a reason.
Last edited by NotWhoYouThink on Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Trying to transfer a Roth IRA and this Medallion Signature requirement is driving me nuts!

Post by LadyGeek » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:34 pm

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Re: Trying to transfer a Roth IRA and this Medallion Signature requirement is driving me nuts!

Post by Kevin M » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:58 pm

41fan wrote:Update from the OP:
<snip>
Her: "Wait - no, we don't require that anymore. We used to, but now we don't."
<snip>
Her: "Oh, we changed that requirement within the past week. So they would need to re-send the transferring paperwork."
My experience wasn't nearly as aggravating as yours, but I went through a minor version of it a few months ago.

Ally Bank previously had required a signature guarantee for outbound IRA transfers, and I had been getting them at my local Fidelity office, including fairly recently. On some of my most recent IRA transfers, they had told me that they no longer did signature guarantees for non-Fidelity forms, but they waived that policy at least twice for me.

For the last one I went to another Fidelity office and they refused to do it because of their new policy.

Next I went to my local credit union, who told me that they'd do it, but when they saw the form, they refused because the form did not have a designated space for the signature guarantee (most IRA transfer forms don't, unlike Vanguard's which does). I asked the rep if their IRA transfer forms had a space for it, and guess what? Nope, they don't. Then she gave me some rigmarole about how their form had language that would make it OK with their regulator.

While sitting at her desk I called the receiving custodian to ask if they had a form with a space for a signature guarantee. Nope, you have to use the standard form.

Next, while still sitting at the CU reps desk, I called Ally to ask them what in the heck I was supposed to do. "Oh, we no longer require a signature guarantee."

Jeesh! So I mailed the form (without a signature guarantee) to the receiving custodian, and everything worked fine from there.

It seems that the trend is that signature guarantees are getting harder to get, and in response financial institutions are relaxing their requirements about getting them. At least if our two examples count as a trend. :wink:

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Re: Trying to transfer a Roth IRA and this Medallion Signature requirement is driving me nuts!

Post by Jackson12 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:05 pm

homerj15 wrote:FWIW, I get my Medallion Signatures done at my local Chase branch. Easy peasy.. done in under five minutes.
It may depends on the bank and the notary. We don't use Chase. A friend does. No luck with the Medallion signature. We had trouble getting a Medallion signature at one branch of our bank and not the other. It was very random.,

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Re: Trying to transfer a Roth IRA and this Medallion Signature requirement is driving me nuts!

Post by retiredjg » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:23 pm

41fan wrote:Her: "Oh, we changed that requirement within the past week. So they would need to re-send the transferring paperwork."
Me: :annoyed
Yeah...right. In the meantime, they have made your exit cumbersome (perhaps hoping you would give up) and have kept your money another month or two. Shame on them.

Well, at least you now know that Vanguard was not the problem in your issue.

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Re: Trying to transfer a Roth IRA and this Medallion Signature requirement is driving me nuts!

Post by drawpoker » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:58 pm

Frankly, I think even some banks don't fully understand purpose/principle/logistics/ of the Medallion Signature deal and how this represents an important service to customers.

Last year, I needed to set up option for electronic transfers from Fidelity and TRowePrice mutual funds to my checking account at PNC (Profits, Not Customers) Bank. Not a one-time thing for a specific amount, but just to authorize it for whenever I wanted to use it.
The TRowePrice was a regular taxable account and they did not require the Medallion. However, the Fidelity was a Traditional IRA and they did require the Medallion seal.

Well, the branch manager at my PNC was completely flummoxed and demanded to know what was the amount of the transfer. I told her there was NO Amount pending, I was simply setting up this service so it would be available when/if/I needed it. She didn't like hearing that.
She continued to get all flummoxed, saying she had to write down a specific amount, as there was something about the Medallion being used for amounts over $100,000 had to be handled differently, some special requirements, blah blah, all sorts of b.s.

As best as I could tell, she was a Nervous Nellie about me not be able to name a specific dollar amount, as PNC (Profits, Not Customers) Bank had differing insurance amounts on the people authorized to use the Medallion stamp. Or, maybe there was a limit on the insurance - if it later turned out somebody swindled somebody (either the sender or the recipient ? )

Finally, I told her that any transfers I initiated would always be well under $100,000. That seemed to satisfy her, so I got the Medallion stamp on the paperwork I needed to send to Fidelity.

Moral of the story - think custodians of IRAs and other qualified retirement plans are more picky than other type brokerage people in demanding absolute, guaranteed, insured to six-figures, proof of who you are. And, some banks must have been burned in the past by swindlers conning them into stamping that Medallion on phony stuff, and now they are being super cautious. :shock:

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Re: Trying to transfer a Roth IRA and this Medallion Signature requirement is driving me nuts!

Post by BrandonBogle » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:33 pm

Kevin M wrote: It seems that the trend is that signature guarantees are getting harder to get, and in response financial institutions are relaxing their requirements about getting them. At least if our two examples count as a trend. :wink:

Kevin
My gut feeling is that as firms have gotten used to "Know Your Customer" being standard and clients having thorough identification on-record at both ends of a transaction, they have become more confident and thus, relaxed the need for a "3rd party guarantee". Maybe I'm reaching for that explanation, but it works in my mind! :)

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Re: Trying to transfer a Roth IRA and this Medallion Signature requirement is driving me nuts!

Post by BrandonBogle » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:37 pm

drawpoker wrote:PNC (Profits, Not Customers) Bank had differing insurance amounts on the people authorized to use the Medallion stamp. Or, maybe there was a limit on the insurance - if it later turned out somebody swindled somebody (either the sender or the recipient ? )

Finally, I told her that any transfers I initiated would always be well under $100,000. That seemed to satisfy her, so I got the Medallion stamp on the paperwork I needed to send to Fidelity.

Moral of the story - think custodians of IRAs and other qualified retirement plans are more picky than other type brokerage people in demanding absolute, guaranteed, insured to six-figures, proof of who you are. And, some banks must have been burned in the past by swindlers conning them into stamping that Medallion on phony stuff, and now they are being super cautious. :shock:
At the Wells Fargo branch I've gotten Medallion Signature guarantees from in the past, they have explicitly asked about dollar amounts (thankfully I wasn't setting up a transfer for future use like you) that tied to the person doing the Medallion. One time the person there had a $100k limit, but most of the time the people doing mine have a $250k limit. They said they can do more, but they would have to get me to that person at a different location.

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Re: Trying to transfer a Roth IRA and this Medallion Signature requirement is driving me nuts!

Post by Fishing50 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:42 am

I had a good experience with a check sent to me for a 60 day indirect transfer. Vanguard followed my investment instructions on the transfer form.

T. Rowe Price Personal Services provided spectacular customer service helping me avoid a Medallion Signature. My taxable account will remain at TRP because they provide high-quality customer service.
It's perfectly legal, go ask the IRS, they'll say the same thing. I actually feel stupid telling you this, I'm sure you would've investigated the matter yourself. Andy Dufresne

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Re: Trying to transfer a Roth IRA and this Medallion Signature requirement is driving me nuts!

Post by oldcomputerguy » Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:36 am

El Greco wrote: I beg to differ. I made 2 small transfers to Vanguard in the last 2 years and both times Vanguard required a medallion signature.
DW moved four ETFs from her Scottrade account to our Vanguard account last year. Did not require a Medallion Signature Guarantee, did it all without one.
It’s taken me a lot of years, but I’ve come around to this: If you’re dumb, surround yourself with smart people. And if you’re smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you.

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Re: Trying to transfer a Roth IRA and this Medallion Signature requirement is driving me nuts!

Post by ChrisC » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:11 am

BrandonBogle wrote:
drawpoker wrote:PNC (Profits, Not Customers) Bank had differing insurance amounts on the people authorized to use the Medallion stamp. Or, maybe there was a limit on the insurance - if it later turned out somebody swindled somebody (either the sender or the recipient ? )

Finally, I told her that any transfers I initiated would always be well under $100,000. That seemed to satisfy her, so I got the Medallion stamp on the paperwork I needed to send to Fidelity.

Moral of the story - think custodians of IRAs and other qualified retirement plans are more picky than other type brokerage people in demanding absolute, guaranteed, insured to six-figures, proof of who you are. And, some banks must have been burned in the past by swindlers conning them into stamping that Medallion on phony stuff, and now they are being super cautious. :shock:
At the Wells Fargo branch I've gotten Medallion Signature guarantees from in the past, they have explicitly asked about dollar amounts (thankfully I wasn't setting up a transfer for future use like you) that tied to the person doing the Medallion. One time the person there had a $100k limit, but most of the time the people doing mine have a $250k limit. They said they can do more, but they would have to get me to that person at a different location.
The operational practices, of course, can vary from institution to institution as well as from branch to branch within the same institution. We've rolled over/transferred $xxx,xxx funds from several different institutions into Wells Fargo brokerage accounts without anyone requiring a Medallion signature -- in all cases, the checks were made out to Wells Fargo Advisors (the brokerage arm), but delivered to us, for deposit to Wells Fargo.

The only time we needed a Medallion signature occurred when we re-titled book entry-registered stocks, jointly held in a DRIP, to transfer ownership to our Living Trust. And the DRIP custodian appears to require a Medallion for all transfers, as we're contemplating another round of transfers from this DRIP. We went to one branch in Wells, one we normally don't use, but convenient to another place we were frequently visiting, at the time. And the branch manager, who has the Medallion, grilled us about 15 minutes about the stock ownership and actually wanted to get the last several DRIP account statements, which we did not bring to the branch. We said ahfagedboutit! Several days later, we went to the branch we normally transact banking business, asked for the Medallion to fill out the DRIP transfer form, and it was done in 5 minutes -- the time it took her to read our transfer form and check our banking status with Wells, though we came prepared with all of the prior year's account statements.

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Re: Trying to transfer a Roth IRA and this Medallion Signature requirement is driving me nuts!

Post by BrandonBogle » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:38 am

FYI, in my posts above, the medallion guarantee were for accounts elsewhere, not at WF Advisors. One may have been a transfer to WFA, but they were all b/c the current financial institution needed the medallion guarantee. None of my WFA accounts themselves have never needed one, even when I transferred some holdings out.

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Re: Trying to transfer a Roth IRA and this Medallion Signature requirement is driving me nuts!

Post by fatgeorge » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:08 pm

Hello, just finished transfer from WF to Vanguard and had to deal with Medallion Signature requirement as well. Let me share my experience.

After filling up the forms online I've got the PDF to print and sign which required Medallion Signature for authorization. Went to Wells Fargo Advisors (you can find an office here: https://www.wellsfargo.com/locator/well ... ors/search) - note that Wells Fargo bank will not do Medallion Signature, only Wells Fargo Advisors.

Drove there (no appointment needed), talked to the branch manager who was really nice and helpful. He said Vanguard should not have asked for this as it is not needed when you transfer money to yourself, without name change. Offered to call Vanguard and clear this up. We called Vanguard, and the lady said the Medallion Signature is indeed needed even for those kind of transfers, and is required by Wells Fargo Advisors. We hanged up, got a stamp, said good bye. The service was free, and took about 30 minutes.

Note that besides the full authorization form (not just the signature page) you need to bring your statement from WF Advisors, and of course the ID.

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