Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

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AAA
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Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by AAA » Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:18 am

My daughter has to quickly move to a high cost of living area for a new job. She found a suitable apartment but her income does not meet the 40X monthly rent criterion, which would be the case for any apartment in the area. The landlord is offering two options to let her move in (we want to avoid me being a co-signer on the lease):

Option A: Pay a full year's rent up front plus one month's security deposit.
Option B: Pay a security deposit equivalent to six month's rent, plus the first month's rent.

The security deposit is stated to be refundable except for any damage done.

My concern wit option A is that it's a large sum of money to hand over, and what if for some reason she has to leave during the year? Are they required to refund some of the payment if the apartment is rented to someone else?. The concern with option B is that if they are unscrupulous, they could claim a lot of damage was done and keep most or all of the security deposit. The online reviews of the place are generally very favorable however.

Would appreciate any advise as we need to make a decision very soon.

Eagle4Life
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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by Eagle4Life » Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:27 am

Find a more affordable apartment with reasonable deposit requirements.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by Kosmo » Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:48 am

Does she really want to pay over 30% of her gross income on rent? That seems excessive.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by cheese_breath » Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:59 am

Eagle4Life wrote:Find a more affordable apartment with reasonable deposit requirements.

Or a roommate to share expenses.
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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by AlohaJoe » Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:48 am

Many jurisdictions have legal limits on the size of the security deposit. But that would be my preferred path. There are pretty standard ways of dealing with security deposits and disputes about them.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by AAA » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:29 am

AlohaJoe wrote:Many jurisdictions have legal limits on the size of the security deposit. But that would be my preferred path. There are pretty standard ways of dealing with security deposits and disputes about them.


The security deposit option is the one we're favoring at this time.

As for the other recommendations people have made, there is nothing more affordable that meets her requirements, and a roommate is not easy to find on a short notice. Please confine your responses to the relative advantages of option A or B. Just want to make sure I'm not overlooking something.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by student » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:34 am

My preference will depend on the answer to the following question: After Year 1, does one need to prepay Year 2 for the entire year if one goes with Option A? If the answer is yes, then I will pick Option B. If the answer is no, I will pick Option A.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by remomnyc » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:38 am

I would choose option B if landlord agrees that security deposit will be applied to rent starting in month 8 such that at maturity there will only one month security remaining available to be applied to damages.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by bigred77 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:42 am

remomnyc wrote:I would choose option B if landlord agrees that security deposit will be applied to rent starting in month 8 such that at maturity there will only one month security remaining available to be applied to damages.


This seems like a worthwhile compromise.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by smalltown » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:54 am

Be sure to search for tenants' rights laws for that city and state.

In HCOL Boston, for example, it is illegal for a landlord to require upfront payment of more than first&last month's rent, security deposit (no more than one month's rent), and realtor fee (no more than one month's rent). So, if this were in Boston, you'd be dealing with someone making an illegal offer, which should make you question whether they'd do anything else illegal as a landlord.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by Goal33 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:23 am

Maybe OP should cosign for daughter and keep the 5 extra months of security deposit in case daughter messes up.
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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by AAA » Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:59 pm

smalltown wrote:Be sure to search for tenants' rights laws for that city and state.

In HCOL Boston, for example, it is illegal for a landlord to require upfront payment of more than first&last month's rent, security deposit (no more than one month's rent), and realtor fee (no more than one month's rent). So, if this were in Boston, you'd be dealing with someone making an illegal offer, which should make you question whether they'd do anything else illegal as a landlord.


This apt. would be in New York City.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by greg24 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:06 pm

I would choose neither A nor B.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by crit » Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:10 pm

My vote is for B, with the stipulation that it is applied to rent starting in month 8.

One thing to consider is that for A, she wouldn't be paying rent monthly, and that may make life (and the apartment) feel more affordable than it really is. If she is trying to feel out whether she needs a roommate -- best to get a realistic feel for that as soon as possible.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by rjbraun » Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:35 pm

Option B with well documented photos of apartment condition prior to move-in. Ideally, have the landlord provide written sign-off on any imperfect conditions, scratches, etc. Maybe also try to have some language that allows for normal "wear and tear" of daily living. For example, obviously the painted walls shouldn't be expected to be free of dirt marks and such.

Edit: I agree with others about trying to confirm first if the requested security deposit terms are legitimate and legal. No question that NYC housing is very tight, but I am kind of surprised to read that the landlord can be so aggressive on terms. If the choices are Option A or Option B only, I pick B (with the provisos indicated).
Last edited by rjbraun on Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by Watty » Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:36 pm

I would be very careful with this.

A common scam is for someone to get access to an apartment that they don't own then rent it out to 10 people with large deposits. When they show up to move in the "owner" is long gone. I know someone that this happened to.

I have a hard time believing that the large deposits are normal there so this really don't sound right.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by Liberty1100 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:40 pm

smalltown wrote:Be sure to search for tenants' rights laws for that city and state.<br class="dp1487014227_text" __decreased__="element1487014227"><br class="dp1487014227_text" __decreased__="element1487014227">In HCOL Boston, for example, it is illegal for a landlord to require upfront payment of more than first&last month's rent, security deposit (no more than one month's rent), and realtor fee (no more than one month's rent). So, if this were in Boston, you'd be dealing with someone making an illegal offer, which should make you question whether they'd do anything else illegal as a landlord.


I am have had some rental experience in Boston with one particular instance teaching me a ton about the rules and regulations behind renting/leasing and what a landlord can or cannot do.

DO NOT pony up the cash for that. It definitely seems like a scam to me and I would hope you assume the same. A little more reasonable solution would be to cosign on the apartment or have her get a roommate to cosign. One month rent for security deposit + first and maybe last month rent should really be the most you ever have to put down. If they demand more, move on. Oh, and get a receipt for every check handed to the landlord.

Look into your state's laws. It is important to know your rights as a renter and a landlord. Here's an interesting fact I learned: In Mass, if a landlord collects a security deposit, they must place the deposit in a separate account and provide you a receipt within 30 days. If they don't, you can request the deposit back in full and they must repay you. Also, similarly, once the lease is over and you have moved out, the landlord has 30 days to return the deposit and must provide an itemized list of any damages they claim aginst it. Again, if they do not, they must return it full.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by campy2010 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:44 pm

Since time is limited, find an airbnb to rent for a month while she searches for a roommate.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by rjbraun » Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:53 pm

campy2010 wrote:Since time is limited, find an airbnb to rent for a month while she searches for a roommate.

Airbnb is generally illegal in NYC. If one is concerned about getting scammed, I would be even more careful about renting in the Airbnb market in NYC.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/03/tech ... fines.html

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by randomguy » Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:59 pm

remomnyc wrote:I would choose option B if landlord agrees that security deposit will be applied to rent starting in month 8 such that at maturity there will only one month security remaining available to be applied to damages.


Yeah. Imagine she lives there 5 years (say it is rent controlled). Does having 5 months extra money tied up in a security deposit sound like a good idea?

And prepaying the rent pretty much makes you your daughters landlord (i.e. you will have to collect rent from her each month) which isn't ideal. And if for some reason if she breaks the lease, getting money back (if entitled) could be pain.

Where is this money coming from? If it is you, I might be tempted to cosign.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by dm200 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:00 pm

I agree with your aversion to being a "cosigner".

I am not attorney nor expert in NY law or regulations, but there are often specific rules/regulations about what a security deposit can and cannot be used for.

I would propose a slight "variant" to Option B.

One month's security deposit and six months rent in advance. Then, for months 7-12, she would pay each month. At the end of 12 months, she would still be six months paid ahead. Then, assuming a good record as a tenant, she would go back to the normal rental and not payin advance until the advance six monthsrent is exhausted.

Of course, this all depends on the specifics of the situation and would give her 12-18 months to make longer term (and perhaps less financially burdensome housing).

I would not (verbally) ask about this variant, but rather make the offer, in writing, with a check - and (if they don;t like it) make them push the money (sitting on the table) back to her.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by dm200 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:15 pm

[Post content removed by admin LadyGeek]


Let me just express the view that apartment rents can be very high for those just starting out in such an area. There can be little time and information, as well, in finding safe and acceptable housing. When starting a new position, especially as a young person, there is a real priority to being able to focus on getting a good start on the job, without the time, effort and worry about housing distracting from such efforts. It is also true that many people, who have very responsible and frugal lifestyles can spend (for many reasons) a higher percentage of income on housing.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by Good Listener » Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:29 pm

My daughter had a similar thing in Manhattan a year ago. They let me cosign. And I helped her with the rent. It would be easiest to cosign. Otherwise I would do choice A and if you can afford to help her, pay a bunch of it or all for her. She's your daughter :happy

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by knowledge » Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:38 pm

To the OP: what's the concern about being the guarantor on the lease? Would you not provide rental assistance if she wasn't able to make rent? If you are willing to make rent, I don't see how this choice is worse than your options (A or B). And that's why these guarantors exist.

Fun fact - I was a guarantor for two friends of mine, even though they both made more money than I did (each) because they didn't have enough of an employment history. They had just come out of Bschool.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by Liberty1100 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:48 pm

dm200 wrote:
[Post content removed by admin LadyGeek]


Let me just express the view that apartment rents can be very high for those just starting out in such an area. There can be little time and information, as well, in finding safe and acceptable housing. When starting a new position, especially as a young person, there is a real priority to being able to focus on getting a good start on the job, without the time, effort and worry about housing distracting from such efforts. It is also true that many people, who have very responsible and frugal lifestyles can spend (for many reasons) a higher percentage of income on housing.


I think it is very common that rent will exceed the "limits" others might put on it. Living in the city allows you to reduce other expenses, like a car. Because of the reduction of that expense, people might actually do better living in the city. Unfortunately, Landlords don't take that into account a lot of the time. They typically don't care about other assets or incomes like the situation the OP is in.

Also, when living the in city, it might be a better work-life balance, if someone lives in a more expensive area than cheaper area. Usually there is less fear of crime, quiter, and potentially less of a commute, which is important for people in grad school and so on.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by cpants » Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:19 pm

I would be more hesitant to give a 6mo security deposit than pay the rent in advance. The rent is exchanged for your possession of the apartment -- simple fee in exchange for goods. In the event of a dispute, you will surely prevail or get your money returned in court if the landlord doesn't live up to his part of the deal. Giving the landlord possession of a large deposit to cover any "damages" is very risky on the other hand. Getting your money back is based on a subjective standard -- basically at the landlord's discretion. Yes there are protections in court, but I still wouldn't expect to get it all back and you might have to fight for it.

Ask if instead of 6 months security deposit, you could give a one month security deposit and pay the first 3 months and last 3 months in advance or something similar. Less risky to your daughter, yet should still reassure the landlord that rent will be covered.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by dm200 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:21 pm

For those recommending being a "cosigner", be aware that this can incur potential risks well beyond the rental amounts. I would read all the fine print being agree to.

If someone does become such a "cosigner", I would recommend that any such agreement be for a specific period only. I would also try to limit being such a cosigner to payment of past due rent and the amount of the security deposit.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by dm200 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:22 pm

cpants wrote:I would be more hesitant to give a 6mo security deposit than pay the rent in advance. The rent is exchanged for your possession of the apartment -- simple fee in exchange for goods. In the event of a dispute, you will surely prevail or get your money returned in court if the landlord doesn't live up to his part of the deal. Giving the landlord possession of a large deposit to cover any "damages" is very risky on the other hand. Getting your money back is based on a subjective standard -- basically at the landlord's discretion. Yes there are protections in court, but I still wouldn't expect to get it all back and you might have to fight for it.
Ask if instead of 6 months security deposit, you could give a one month security deposit and pay the first 3 months and last 3 months in advance or something similar. Less risky to your daughter, yet should still reassure the landlord that rent will be covered.


I fully agree.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by JGoneRiding » Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:02 pm

I am a LL and surprised you are getting this options. A lot of areas its not totally legal. With only these choices i would go with a. As someone else pointed out its a clearer exchange of goods. I would also verify there right to rent the place. City is full of scams

I rent to 3 college boys (actually good renters ) i have a cosigner for each one of them on the house they share. I would go after each parent if there were significant damages. In your daughter's situation that is the only option i would give. Shocked they are allowing other options. It is a cleaner option as long as you trusy your daughter not to trash a place.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by Ragnoth » Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:32 pm

As somebody who has lived in NYC for the last decade, I know that finding a good living situatIon can be a challenge in high cost of living areas.

For everybody I knew coming out of college, they either had a guarantor, or they had a shared living situation where a different roommate had the lease (or they sublet from one of the prior roommates).

I have never heard of the kind of situations you are describing (with everything prepaid or a giant security deposit), and I think that you should be very careful.

That said, assuming that this is legit, probably prepaying the rent is the superior choice.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by surfstar » Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:46 pm

Wait, AAA, you fear of being a co-signer, but are okay with putting up a year's worth of rent, cash up front?

Which one leaves you with greater financial liability?

Just co-sign, if she can't find somewhere affordable. The other options are insane.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by Ragnoth » Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:30 am

Just to throw this out there for people talking about consigning, NYC landlords typically demand that guarantors show taxable income equal to 80x monthly rent. Reading between the lines, I'm guessing that studios in the "nice" areas the original poster is considering go up to $2000 per month, and one bedrooms go closer to $3000.

That isn't to say that getting something cosigned is impossible (and I have no idea what the OP's personal situation is)... but it can be a pretty high threshold for even very well to do folks (particularly the semi-retired types sitting on a giant pile of cash and taking 4% withdrawals).

That said, even if money isn't a big concern, my 2-cents is that it might be a learning experience to live in a slightly grittier neighborhood (or in a shared living space arrangement with roommates).

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by newguy84 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:05 am

To answer your question directly, IMHO "B" is better than "A".

However, I would opt for option "C": a bit of tough love. What are the areas that are open for debate for alternative locations? You aren't giving us full disclosure on her requirements (e.g., location, commute time, etc.) What are the areas like with 1-1.5 hour commute time door to door (1 way?)

It might not be fun living away from all of her friends/hot areas, but she needs to be realistic with what she can afford.

This is coming from personal experience (Millenial here!). 10 years ago I made < 40k / year when starting my life in Chicago and had to live in less than desirable areas than my friends.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by Choy » Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:56 am

bigred77 wrote:
remomnyc wrote:I would choose option B if landlord agrees that security deposit will be applied to rent starting in month 8 such that at maturity there will only one month security remaining available to be applied to damages.


This seems like a worthwhile compromise.


Fairly certain in NYC it is illegal for a security deposit to be used for rent. Security deposits are to be kept in separate accounts and only used for damages should they occur. Rent is rent, security deposits are security deposits.

That being said, I agree with other posters about just co-signing. Assuming your daughter is responsible and trustworthy, I see no reason why you would prefer the other options mentioned.

P.S. I live in NYC and know how difficult it is to find a decent/safe place that isn't a 2 hour commute from work. People on this forum think that spending more than half your income in NYC means you're living the life in Chelsea or the UWS when it really means living in a shoe box in the outer boroughs.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by denovo » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:48 am

I am fairly certain these terms are illegal (disclaimer: not an expert on NY landlord-tenant law). Just wondering if this is a scam or if you could trust someone who would blatantly ignore the law.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by LadyGeek » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:41 pm

I removed an off-topic comment and several replies. As a reminder, see: General Etiquette

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by Good Listener » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:25 pm

Ragnoth wrote:Just to throw this out there for people talking about consigning, NYC landlords typically demand that guarantors show taxable income equal to 80x monthly rent. Reading between the lines, I'm guessing that studios in the "nice" areas the original poster is considering go up to $2000 per month, and one bedrooms go closer to $3000.

That isn't to say that getting something cosigned is impossible (and I have no idea what the OP's personal situation is)... but it can be a pretty high threshold for even very well to do folks (particularly the semi-retired types sitting on a giant pile of cash and taking 4% withdrawals).

That said, even if money isn't a big concern, my 2-cents is that it might be a learning experience to live in a slightly grittier neighborhood (or in a shared living space arrangement with roommates).



Ragnoth, I am not sure you know the NYC market. For me it would be for any gender child, but certainly for a daughter, a doorman building in a decent area is necessary for safety. Add $1000 to each of your estimates for studios and 1 bedrooms, slightly more on the Upper West Side and double in the cream of the cream areas like Park Avenue (unnecessary in my opinion). I cannot imagine wanting a single girl in a big city to learn life's lessons by living in a grittier area as you call it. She can get raped or killed and it happens all the time. My requirement for my at the time 29 year old daughter last year was a doorman building with an elevator and I was more than happy to help.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by dm200 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:36 pm

surfstar wrote:Wait, AAA, you fear of being a co-signer, but are okay with putting up a year's worth of rent, cash up front?
Which one leaves you with greater financial liability?
Just co-sign, if she can't find somewhere affordable. The other options are insane.


Being a "cosignor" on a lease does not have any limit of risk or liability. Putting out 6-12 months of rent limits the risk at that amount.
Last edited by dm200 on Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by dm200 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:37 pm

Fairly certain in NYC it is illegal for a security deposit to be used for rent. Security deposits are to be kept in separate accounts and only used for damages should they occur. Rent is rent, security deposits are security deposits


That is my opinion as well.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by cherijoh » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:48 pm

AAA wrote:My daughter has to quickly move to a high cost of living area for a new job. She found a suitable apartment but her income does not meet the 40X monthly rent criterion, which would be the case for any apartment in the area. The landlord is offering two options to let her move in (we want to avoid me being a co-signer on the lease):

Option A: Pay a full year's rent up front plus one month's security deposit.
Option B: Pay a security deposit equivalent to six month's rent, plus the first month's rent.

The security deposit is stated to be refundable except for any damage done.

My concern wit option A is that it's a large sum of money to hand over, and what if for some reason she has to leave during the year? Are they required to refund some of the payment if the apartment is rented to someone else?. The concern with option B is that if they are unscrupulous, they could claim a lot of damage was done and keep most or all of the security deposit. The online reviews of the place are generally very favorable however.

Would appreciate any advise as we need to make a decision very soon.


Landlord/tenant rules are very local. But where I live IIRC, the tenant has a legal obligation to continue to pay the rent during the lease period. But since it is usually not paid in advance, most landlords don't pursue taking the tenant to court. Here it is typical to request 1st and last months rent. (This is in addition to a security deposit). Anyone breaking a lease should expect to forfeit the last month's rent. After the first year's lease, tenants are sometimes offered the option of going month to month.

It sounds like you daughter needs to find a roommate - perhaps someone who already has an apartment and is looking for someone to share expenses.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by rjbraun » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:49 pm

Good Listener wrote:
Ragnoth wrote:Just to throw this out there for people talking about consigning, NYC landlords typically demand that guarantors show taxable income equal to 80x monthly rent. Reading between the lines, I'm guessing that studios in the "nice" areas the original poster is considering go up to $2000 per month, and one bedrooms go closer to $3000.

That isn't to say that getting something cosigned is impossible (and I have no idea what the OP's personal situation is)... but it can be a pretty high threshold for even very well to do folks (particularly the semi-retired types sitting on a giant pile of cash and taking 4% withdrawals).

That said, even if money isn't a big concern, my 2-cents is that it might be a learning experience to live in a slightly grittier neighborhood (or in a shared living space arrangement with roommates).



Ragnoth, I am not sure you know the NYC market. For me it would be for any gender child, but certainly for a daughter, a doorman building in a decent area is necessary for safety. Add $1000 to each of your estimates for studios and 1 bedrooms, slightly more on the Upper West Side and double in the cream of the cream areas like Park Avenue (unnecessary in my opinion). I cannot imagine wanting a single girl in a big city to learn life's lessons by living in a grittier area as you call it. She can get raped or killed and it happens all the time. My requirement for my at the time 29 year old daughter last year was a doorman building with an elevator and I was more than happy to help.


Whoa, Good Listener! I won't address each of your points individually, but suffice to say that (1) a "single girl" -- really, a female college graduate gainfully employed is a woman, and (2) please provide the basis for your comment about the awful things you suggest happen "all the time". Please quantify or at least provide some basis for that comment. The attached WSJ report, I believe, argues otherwise.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-c ... 1483543802
Last edited by rjbraun on Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Toons
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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by Toons » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:50 pm

Eagle4Life wrote:Find a more affordable apartment with reasonable deposit requirements.



+1
Right On :happy
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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by CaliJim » Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:38 pm

My vote: B - with compromise.

bigred77 wrote:
remomnyc wrote:I would choose option B if landlord agrees that security deposit will be applied to rent starting in month 8 such that at maturity there will only one month security remaining available to be applied to damages.


This seems like a worthwhile compromise.


----

But on the other hand - maybe she can find someone who has an apartment already and is looking for a roommate.

HR department at her new place of employment may have a 'roommate wanted' list.....
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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by CaliJim » Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:44 pm

dm200 wrote:
Fairly certain in NYC it is illegal for a security deposit to be used for rent. Security deposits are to be kept in separate accounts and only used for damages should they occur. Rent is rent, security deposits are security deposits


That is my opinion as well.


Would it be illegal to reduce the security deposit required and release the funds to the tenant, starting at month 8?
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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by dm200 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:49 pm

CaliJim wrote:
dm200 wrote:
Fairly certain in NYC it is illegal for a security deposit to be used for rent. Security deposits are to be kept in separate accounts and only used for damages should they occur. Rent is rent, security deposits are security deposits

That is my opinion as well.

Would it be illegal to reduce the security deposit required and release the funds to the tenant, starting at month 8?


I don't know. From the original post, it seems clear the additional financial commitments are completely related to income and not that the prospective tenant poses a high risk to the property itself.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by surfstar » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:59 pm

dm200 wrote:
surfstar wrote:Wait, AAA, you fear of being a co-signer, but are okay with putting up a year's worth of rent, cash up front?
Which one leaves you with greater financial liability?
Just co-sign, if she can't find somewhere affordable. The other options are insane.


Being a "cosignor" on a lease does not have any limit of risk or liability. Putting out 6-12 months of rent limits the risk at that amount.


Sorry for the grammatical error due to typing a quick reply ;)

But, 12months of rent is a pretty high liability. What would the potential situation that could cause a higher financial liability than 1 full years worth of rent be? It won't be loosing an entire security deposit. I won't be early termination of a lease penalty (that is capped at 12 months and continually drops each month).
Some weird lawsuit type situation? When are renters ever hit for more liability than the landlord? These all seem like far-fetched situations.

i just fail to see how you would have greater liability cosigning on a lease vs putting 12months rent up front. Opportunity cost on that cash, too!
Lessons your chance that its a take it and run scam, as mentioned above, also.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by randomguy » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:14 pm

dm200 wrote:For those recommending being a "cosigner", be aware that this can incur potential risks well beyond the rental amounts. I would read all the fine print being agree to.

If someone does become such a "cosigner", I would recommend that any such agreement be for a specific period only. I would also try to limit being such a cosigner to payment of past due rent and the amount of the security deposit.


Other than liability for rent and damages (i.e. daughter sets up a meth lab) what are the potential risks that you are aware off? I have never seen anything else in the agreements I have read but I am not up in the laws in all 50 states. Some leases have a guarantor of rent instead of cosigner option. That gets you out of the damage liability part.

Cosigning for a kid living by themselves doesn't strike me as crazy. Cosigning for a kid living with 4 other people though is well beyond my risk tolerance.

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Re: Need quick advice: Pay full year's rent or large security deposit?

Post by Ragnoth » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:29 am

Good Listener wrote:Ragnoth, I am not sure you know the NYC market. For me it would be for any gender child, but certainly for a daughter, a doorman building in a decent area is necessary for safety. Add $1000 to each of your estimates for studios and 1 bedrooms, slightly more on the Upper West Side and double in the cream of the cream areas like Park Avenue (unnecessary in my opinion). I cannot imagine wanting a single girl in a big city to learn life's lessons by living in a grittier area as you call it. She can get raped or killed and it happens all the time. My requirement for my at the time 29 year old daughter last year was a doorman building with an elevator and I was more than happy to help.


I think the bigger issue here is that you and I have very different definitions of "nice." The price-point you are suggesting would be for what I consider "super luxury apartments" with 24 hour doorman/concierge, elevator, gym, etc. (see e.g., the Columbus Square UWS development).

I can appreciate a young woman wanting to feel safe coming home at night, but I think the reality has more to do with the overall neighborhood than building amenities. In my experience, people are more likely to get mugged walking drunk out of the neighborhood bar rather than while sitting in their homes.

I won't begrudge somebody wanting to live in a luxury building (and it can be a wonderful experience if you can afford it!), but I think that plenty of young people would do better to pass on the luxuries and try to live within their means... even if it means a walk-up and having to schlep your clothing to a laundromat.

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