Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

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Youngblood
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Youngblood »

So many negatory comments in regards to the future of Quicken. Though many do sound plausible, I'm personally not ready to dump a program that has until at least April 2020 (at no extra expense) and that I really enjoy using.

Why do I like Quicken?

Daily check of all savings, checking, investment and credit card accounts without having to go to each account separately. This saves us a ton of time and has caught fraudulent charges.

Every single thing of financial importance I have recorded in Quicken. When I die, my wife knows exactly where to look, how to access them and what type of account each one is (as we age, we do forget things). When we both die, my oldest daughter knows to contact our lawyer for estate plan and can access Quicken with all of our accounts, life insurance policies (both free from work), addresses, bank deposit boxes etc. Really, everything.

Then, of course, all the daily information I have at my fingertips gains, losses, dividends, interest, income, expenses...

I'm confident that we can all change if and when the need arises. Heck, being 68 the program may last longer than I do but if we are both still around in 2020 and a subscription is the only option I will definitely give it a try.

A hundred dollars a year is really almost funny money, isn't it?

YB
"I made my money by selling too soon." | Bernard M. Baruch
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TimeRunner
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by TimeRunner »

bertilak wrote:
TimeRunner wrote:On a tangent note, I've been unable to download account info from HSA Bank for a couple of weeks - Quicken 2016 errors with "Bad password" and freezes. I contacted HSA Bank today and was told that they no longer support Quicken downloads, and that they did not renew their license. FWIW.
Perhaps it is just the "Quicken Direct" option they no longer support. (I think that's the only connection method that costs.) Try deactivating transaction downloads and then reactivating with a different connection method.
Update: I deactivated downloads, and when I reactivated it did not give me a choice of methods. However, it DID straighten out whatever the issue was and downloaded the last 502 days (!) of transactions, which are duplicates of what I already had. But, importantly, this tells me the HSA rep was wrong, and it was a technical issue and not the bank no longer supporting Quicken downloads. Funny because I even asked the rep "are you sure" and she said yes. Well, it appears to be working so...let's hope it continues to work. Thanks for spurring me to try this.
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Uncle Pennybags
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Uncle Pennybags »

MP123 wrote:Quicken 17 makes me re-authenticate into their server every couple months even though it's supposed to be a standalone desktop application. So it's not just a problem when you first install or register the program but regularly.

Very annoying.
I smell the ransomware hustle brewing.
michaeljc70
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by michaeljc70 »

Youngblood wrote:So many negatory comments in regards to the future of Quicken. Though many do sound plausible, I'm personally not ready to dump a program that has until at least April 2020 (at no extra expense) and that I really enjoy using.

Why do I like Quicken?

Daily check of all savings, checking, investment and credit card accounts without having to go to each account separately. This saves us a ton of time and has caught fraudulent charges.

Every single thing of financial importance I have recorded in Quicken. When I die, my wife knows exactly where to look, how to access them and what type of account each one is (as we age, we do forget things). When we both die, my oldest daughter knows to contact our lawyer for estate plan and can access Quicken with all of our accounts, life insurance policies (both free from work), addresses, bank deposit boxes etc. Really, everything.

Then, of course, all the daily information I have at my fingertips gains, losses, dividends, interest, income, expenses...

I'm confident that we can all change if and when the need arises. Heck, being 68 the program may last longer than I do but if we are both still around in 2020 and a subscription is the only option I will definitely give it a try.

A hundred dollars a year is really almost funny money, isn't it?

YB
As someone that has data going back to 1994 in Quicken and that uses it almost daily, I have enough evidence that I think it is wise to start thinking about other options. Maybe it won't come to that, but I don't want to be swept into a Quicken downward death spiral blindly.

Let's face it PE firms are about squeezing every last dollar out of their investments. Fine, that is what they do. If they jack up the prices, they will lose customers. That will either cause them to cut back on the product development and/or raise prices more. If they cut back on development (like it seems has been done for years) the product will have more bugs and be more stale and they will lose customers. If they raise prices, they will lose customers. Of course, it is possible they will strike a happy medium continuing a decent product at a decent price.
Last edited by michaeljc70 on Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Youngblood
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Youngblood »

michaeljc70 wrote:
Youngblood wrote:So many negatory comments in regards to the future of Quicken. Though many do sound plausible, I'm personally not ready to dump a program that has until at least April 2020 (at no extra expense) and that I really enjoy using.

Why do I like Quicken?

Daily check of all savings, checking, investment and credit card accounts without having to go to each account separately. This saves us a ton of time and has caught fraudulent charges.

Every single thing of financial importance I have recorded in Quicken. When I die, my wife knows exactly where to look, how to access them and what type of account each one is (as we age, we do forget things). When we both die, my oldest daughter knows to contact our lawyer for estate plan and can access Quicken with all of our accounts, life insurance policies (both free from work), addresses, bank deposit boxes etc. Really, everything.

Then, of course, all the daily information I have at my fingertips gains, losses, dividends, interest, income, expenses...

I'm confident that we can all change if and when the need arises. Heck, being 68 the program may last longer than I do but if we are both still around in 2020 and a subscription is the only option I will definitely give it a try.

A hundred dollars a year is really almost funny money, isn't it?

YB
As someone that has data going back to 1994 in Quicken and that uses it almost daily, I have enough evidence that I think it is wise to start thinking about other options. Maybe it won't come to that, but I don't want to be swept into a Quicken downward death spiral blindly.

Let's face it PE firms are about squeezing every last dollar out of their investments. Fine, that is what they do. If they jack up the prices, they will lose customers. That will either cause them to cut back on the product development and/or raise prices more. If they cut back on development (like it seems has been done for years) the product will have more bugs and be more stale and they will loose customers. If they raise prices, they will lose customers. Of course, it is possible they will strike a happy medium continuing a decent product at a decent price.
Blinders not on and from reading this thread opinions are certainly subscribing to exactly what you are saying. I'm only saying I have no need to start thinking of other options three years hence. Who even knows what the options will be in three years time.

So for me, I just don't see the benefit of looking at other options now. I am pretty good about not repenting the past or brooding over the future. I have enjoyed reading all the views on the topic.
"I made my money by selling too soon." | Bernard M. Baruch
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bertilak
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by bertilak »

Youngblood wrote:So for me, I just don't see the benefit of looking at other options now. I am pretty good about not repenting the past or brooding over the future. I have enjoyed reading all the views on the topic.
In theory, as I posted earlier, it is time for me to start looking for alternatives.

In practice I am in your camp!
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michaeljc70
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by michaeljc70 »

Youngblood wrote:
michaeljc70 wrote:
Youngblood wrote:So many negatory comments in regards to the future of Quicken. Though many do sound plausible, I'm personally not ready to dump a program that has until at least April 2020 (at no extra expense) and that I really enjoy using.

Why do I like Quicken?

Daily check of all savings, checking, investment and credit card accounts without having to go to each account separately. This saves us a ton of time and has caught fraudulent charges.

Every single thing of financial importance I have recorded in Quicken. When I die, my wife knows exactly where to look, how to access them and what type of account each one is (as we age, we do forget things). When we both die, my oldest daughter knows to contact our lawyer for estate plan and can access Quicken with all of our accounts, life insurance policies (both free from work), addresses, bank deposit boxes etc. Really, everything.

Then, of course, all the daily information I have at my fingertips gains, losses, dividends, interest, income, expenses...

I'm confident that we can all change if and when the need arises. Heck, being 68 the program may last longer than I do but if we are both still around in 2020 and a subscription is the only option I will definitely give it a try.

A hundred dollars a year is really almost funny money, isn't it?

YB
As someone that has data going back to 1994 in Quicken and that uses it almost daily, I have enough evidence that I think it is wise to start thinking about other options. Maybe it won't come to that, but I don't want to be swept into a Quicken downward death spiral blindly.

Let's face it PE firms are about squeezing every last dollar out of their investments. Fine, that is what they do. If they jack up the prices, they will lose customers. That will either cause them to cut back on the product development and/or raise prices more. If they cut back on development (like it seems has been done for years) the product will have more bugs and be more stale and they will loose customers. If they raise prices, they will lose customers. Of course, it is possible they will strike a happy medium continuing a decent product at a decent price.
Blinders not on and from reading this thread opinions are certainly subscribing to exactly what you are saying. I'm only saying I have no need to start thinking of other options three years hence. Who even knows what the options will be in three years time.

So for me, I just don't see the benefit of looking at other options now. I am pretty good about not repenting the past or brooding over the future. I have enjoyed reading all the views on the topic.
I think the 3 year thing may not be true. That was the old cycle. If in 1 year Quicken fails to deliver and the PE firm pulls the plug and disconnects Quicken's servers, where will that leave you? There is no 3 year guarantee.

Are you familiar with Nest? They pulled the plug on a device and it completely stopped working for customers!
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by CLine »

Long time (25+ years!) Quicken user here. I, too, have been steadily losing faith in the stability of the program, company and overall product concept. My current goal is to consolidate accounts (e.g., at Vanguard, Fidelity, etc.) and use the "native" features of the bank/brokerage website to categorize, monitor, and track expenses and investment goals.

Where that's not possible, I'm experimenting with Mint as an aggregator. I really prefer the real time nature of Mint to the download/import cycles required by Quicken. What I miss most in Quicken (particularly at tax time) are the convenient reporting features. I recently discovered a companion software product (http://minttoreport.com/) that offers those capabilities, though I haven't tried it yet.

Anyone else have a web-based system that they're using successfully?
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by michaeljc70 »

CLine wrote:Long time (25+ years!) Quicken user here. I, too, have been steadily losing faith in the stability of the program, company and overall product concept. My current goal is to consolidate accounts (e.g., at Vanguard, Fidelity, etc.) and use the "native" features of the bank/brokerage website to categorize, monitor, and track expenses and investment goals.

Where that's not possible, I'm experimenting with Mint as an aggregator. I really prefer the real time nature of Mint to the download/import cycles required by Quicken. What I miss most in Quicken (particularly at tax time) are the convenient reporting features. I recently discovered a companion software product (http://minttoreport.com/) that offers those capabilities, though I haven't tried it yet.

Anyone else have a web-based system that they're using successfully?
That Mint reporting tool looks interesting. Nice reports. Though Quicken provides a decent number of reports, you can only customize them so much. That has always disappointed me. That hasn't changed much in 10+ years.
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Youngblood
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Youngblood »

Quicken Deluxe 2017 is now on sale through the 21st.

https://www.quicken.com/pulse4lp/ppc/40 ... ct/Quicken

$45 dollars is the most you can lose if the three year promise doesn't come true.

Bertilak, we think alike.

YB
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by BrandonBogle »

Youngblood wrote: $45 dollars is the most you can lose if the three year promise doesn't come true.
That and your data if you don't also maintain a version of your data in an older Quicken release that doesn't require reauthentication (2016 perhaps?).
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Youngblood
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Youngblood »

BrandonBogle wrote:
Youngblood wrote: $45 dollars is the most you can lose if the three year promise doesn't come true.
That and your data if you don't also maintain a version of your data in an older Quicken release that doesn't require reauthentication (2016 perhaps?).
Right, got that covered with my 2015 version.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by MP123 »

Youngblood wrote:
BrandonBogle wrote:
Youngblood wrote: $45 dollars is the most you can lose if the three year promise doesn't come true.
That and your data if you don't also maintain a version of your data in an older Quicken release that doesn't require reauthentication (2016 perhaps?).
Right, got that covered with my 2015 version.
Will it open a 2017 data file?
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Youngblood
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Youngblood »

MP123 wrote:
Youngblood wrote:
BrandonBogle wrote:
Youngblood wrote: $45 dollars is the most you can lose if the three year promise doesn't come true.
That and your data if you don't also maintain a version of your data in an older Quicken release that doesn't require reauthentication (2016 perhaps?).
Right, got that covered with my 2015 version.
Will it open a 2017 data file?
Usually not, but on conversion or backup you would save the old version file and have to update manually from then using your old 2015 Quicken.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by TimeRunner »

Here's a potential security issue that Quicken (and Mint) have, which is another reason I'm running Moneydance in parallel with Quicken 2016 and learning it in the hopes of cutting over soon:

https://infinitekind.com/blog/online-ba ... y-security

From that blog link above: "Not all banks support direct OFX connections, and some are dropping support for it. In fact, many banks intentionally make it harder for customers to access their data in any way that is readable by software. As a result, companies such as Yodlee have appeared. They thrive on accessing and aggregating financial data and translating it into a software-readable form. They upload and store the user’s online banking credentials and connect to banks by pretending to be the customer, often using a simulated browser. Mint.com was one of their most famous early customers. Mint was subsequently purchased by Intuit, the makers of Quicken. Soon after, both Mint and Quicken were converted to use Express Web Connect, which was Intuit’s version of Yodlee’s service.

These services frequently pretend to be a human sitting at a web browser, logging in to each bank’s web site. They extract the transaction data from the web site or download it directly to their servers where it is aggregated and available to download the next time you connect."

Giving my login info to Intuit (and now Quicken's new owner) is a risk I would like to eliminate. I'd rather give up Express Web Connect than have my login info 'out there'. OFX works fine with Vanguard, USAA, Fidelity, and many other financial companies.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by michaeljc70 »

TimeRunner wrote:Here's a potential security issue that Quicken (and Mint) have, which is another reason I'm running Moneydance in parallel with Quicken 2016 and learning it in the hopes of cutting over soon:

https://infinitekind.com/blog/online-ba ... y-security

From that blog link above: "Not all banks support direct OFX connections, and some are dropping support for it. In fact, many banks intentionally make it harder for customers to access their data in any way that is readable by software. As a result, companies such as Yodlee have appeared. They thrive on accessing and aggregating financial data and translating it into a software-readable form. They upload and store the user’s online banking credentials and connect to banks by pretending to be the customer, often using a simulated browser. Mint.com was one of their most famous early customers. Mint was subsequently purchased by Intuit, the makers of Quicken. Soon after, both Mint and Quicken were converted to use Express Web Connect, which was Intuit’s version of Yodlee’s service.

These services frequently pretend to be a human sitting at a web browser, logging in to each bank’s web site. They extract the transaction data from the web site or download it directly to their servers where it is aggregated and available to download the next time you connect."

Giving my login info to Intuit (and now Quicken's new owner) is a risk I would like to eliminate. I'd rather give up Express Web Connect than have my login info 'out there'. OFX works fine with Vanguard, USAA, Fidelity, and many other financial companies.
I think the problem with the Yodlee method is you might have to give up 2 step authentication. It would be nice if there was a read-only version of login for these financial sites so that they could read my positions/transactions but not sell my securities and transfer the money. Then you could hand that out and not worry as much.
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Uncle Pennybags
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Uncle Pennybags »

I just checked out "Mint". It is "free" and cloud based. That means I'm the product. I used my Quicken sign in and it worked; this is an Intuit product. I don't see how I can load all of my old Quicken data into Mint.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Uncle Pennybags »

Does anyone have a reverse engendered patch that will perform the function of "Quicken"s" server? It looks to me that will be the only way to avoid "private equity's" eventual ransom demands.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Fintechnick »

Hi All,

I respect that this forum is full of people that hate spending money. What else would one expect from committed Bogleheads?

That said -- I have watched what has happened to Quicken over the years, and am THRILLED with the idea of Quicken switching to a subscription model, which would involve higher ARPU. Why? Because I want and need Quicken to be financially sustainable. And that's not going to happen without more revenue. I would personally be willing to pay $100 or even $150 a year. The value of Quicken to me vastly exceeds that amount. And I'm using the Mac version (which is not as full-featured as the Windows version, though it also is much more modern technology and not nearly as creaky as the Windows version).

All of you folks that are opposed to paying a fair price for annual usage of Quicken -- please feel free to try the alternatives. I've personally tried them all (because until the last 12 months or so, Quicken Mac has not been good enough, so I've gone thru every conceivable alternative over the last 7 years). I've tried Banktivity. I've tried Mint. I've tried Personal Capital. I've tried MoneyDance. I've tried MoneyWise. Guess what, they all are pretty poor substitutes for Quicken (even the low-feature Mac version). If you think those other alternatives are good enough, you can move to them today, you don't need to wait.

Producing high quality software and keeping it operating requires money. Year after year, not just once. And high quality software is worth many multiples of even fair prices. $100 / year is a more than fair price for value received. I hope all of you that are searching for "never pay" and kvetching about paying for high quality software will reconsider. I will say right here -- Quicken, please move to subscription version ASAP. We want you to have sustainable revenue model and to continue to support and improve the product.

Regards, Nick
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by LadyGeek »

Uncle Pennybags wrote:Does anyone have a reverse engendered patch that will perform the function of "Quicken"s" server? It looks to me that will be the only way to avoid "private equity's" eventual ransom demands.
Reverse-engineering is explicitly prohibited by the Quicken 2017 End User Software License Agreement.

Posting of information which violates copyright or a program's terms of service is not permitted in this forum.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by michaeljc70 »

Fintechnick wrote:Hi All,

I respect that this forum is full of people that hate spending money. What else would one expect from committed Bogleheads?

That said -- I have watched what has happened to Quicken over the years, and am THRILLED with the idea of Quicken switching to a subscription model, which would involve higher ARPU. Why? Because I want and need Quicken to be financially sustainable. And that's not going to happen without more revenue. I would personally be willing to pay $100 or even $150 a year. The value of Quicken to me vastly exceeds that amount. And I'm using the Mac version (which is not as full-featured as the Windows version, though it also is much more modern technology and not nearly as creaky as the Windows version).

All of you folks that are opposed to paying a fair price for annual usage of Quicken -- please feel free to try the alternatives. I've personally tried them all (because until the last 12 months or so, Quicken Mac has not been good enough, so I've gone thru every conceivable alternative over the last 7 years). I've tried Banktivity. I've tried Mint. I've tried Personal Capital. I've tried MoneyDance. I've tried MoneyWise. Guess what, they all are pretty poor substitutes for Quicken (even the low-feature Mac version). If you think those other alternatives are good enough, you can move to them today, you don't need to wait.

Producing high quality software and keeping it operating requires money. Year after year, not just once. And high quality software is worth many multiples of even fair prices. $100 / year is a more than fair price for value received. I hope all of you that are searching for "never pay" and kvetching about paying for high quality software will reconsider. I will say right here -- Quicken, please move to subscription version ASAP. We want you to have sustainable revenue model and to continue to support and improve the product.

Regards, Nick
I wouldn't call the software high quality. It is certainly full-featured compared to most competitors. There are bugs and new bugs introduced fairly regularly. The "big" investment in Quicken in the last 10 years has been moving icons around mostly. They have added very few useful features. If they are going to improve the quality and add features I've been looking for in the last 10 releases, then maybe I will consider paying more. Otherwise I'll make something else work. As much as I like having all that Quicken data, 99%+ of Americans do without it and I could learn to live without it.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by michaeljc70 »

One other thing is I doubt Quicken was around for 20+ years losing money. Suddenly this mature product that they put little into is losing money?? What is really happening is people are using FREE services like Mint, Personal Capital, etc. and Quicken is losing customers. These services are enough for a lot of people though as discussed above, not enough for some of us. So, a poor strategy is probably really their downfall. They (when Quicken was owned by Intuit) created a free service that cannibalized their paid product and didn't really have a good strategy to combat that. Of course, we all know that Mint is not entirely "free" but that is moot given that just about everybody uses other services (gmail, hotmail, yahoo, etc.) that also use your personal information.
Last edited by michaeljc70 on Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by TimeRunner »

I'm simply using institutions that support OFX downloading (e.g. Vanguard, Fidelity, USAA) to avoid Quicken download lock-in. Quicken's biggest advantage over competitors IMO is a few decades of minor improvements (software maturation) in actions like entering a transaction or drilling down into one from a report. These minor advantages are the missing feature secret-sauce lacking when evaluating alternatives (Banktivity on OSX, Moneydance on Windows). But I'd rather miss those and lobby for their future inclusion than get locked into a Quicken subscription model where my data is held hostage if I don't renew. YMMV. Again, I'm also concerned about having my consolidated financial data in a cloud-based software service (e.g. Mint) that is then sold to others to be used to categorize, segment, and market me to others.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Rhadamanthus »

Just a heads up for you Mac users, I just noticed that the Banktivity 6 beta will be available Tuesday morning. FWIW.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by MilleniumBuc »

Someone asked about a read only login from your bank. With Wells Fargo I was able to set a read only account that I use for mint.com. Not sure what other banks offer it, but had to go through a long maze to find it with Wells Fargo about a year ago. They recently upgraded their website so it could be easier (or harder) to find now.

As for quicken, it's a really hard decision. I updated to 2017 because of severe crashes on 2014. At one point, the program would not open, even after reinstalling (data file is over 150 mb) and from researching after the fact, it seems it was a memory issue. But between the time of the crash and fixing it, it was 1.5 weeks of anguish not being able to schedule payments, etc because I have everything set up through quicken (in the sense of schedule and future reminders to see future balances). Even with mint, it is hard to determine future cash flow.

After that harrowing experience I really would like an alternative, but I think I have realized quicken is indespensable in my life, so I would be probably one of the suckers that would pay easily 15-25 a month to keep the service.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by bertilak »

MilleniumBuc wrote:... anguish not being able to schedule payments, etc because I have everything set up through quicken (in the sense of schedule and future reminders to see future balances). Even with mint, it is hard to determine future cash flow.
Automated projection of future cash flow (via recurring reminders) is one of the most important jobs Quicken does for me (along with transaction download -- keeping up with actual cash flow). If Mint can't do that it is nearly useless to me.

Automated bill paying is secondary. I already do much of that by setting up automated pulls from my regular payees. I could use my bank for the rest. I use Quicken instead because it works seamlessly with cash flow projections. A projection simply becomes actual as it is automatically executed by Quicken on the assigned date.

Investment stuff is tertiary. That's all pretty well tracked by Vanguard. Quicken is not very good at it anyway, requiring lots of manual corrections.

Reports (mostly for tax purposes) are a nicety that could be handled separately.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by spammagnet »

michaeljc70 wrote:... So, a poor strategy is probably really their downfall. They (when Quicken was owned by Intuit) created a free service that cannibalized their paid product and didn't really have a good strategy to combat that. Of course, we all know that Mint is not entirely "free" ...
Intuit didn't create Mint, they bought it. I believe they sold Quicken because they saw a better future in Mint.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by spammagnet »

bertilak wrote:Automated projection of future cash flow (via recurring reminders) is one of the most important jobs Quicken does for me (along with transaction download -- keeping up with actual cash flow).
For me, Quicken's value is this, plus the ability to use that information for estimating income taxes. Yes, I could find a free W-4 tool on a web site somewhere but Quicken does it with the information it already has. It's buggy about how it does it but I've learned the quirks well enough to understand the output.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Lynette »

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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by abuss368 »

Fintechnick wrote:Hi All,

I respect that this forum is full of people that hate spending money. What else would one expect from committed Bogleheads?

That said -- I have watched what has happened to Quicken over the years, and am THRILLED with the idea of Quicken switching to a subscription model, which would involve higher ARPU. Why? Because I want and need Quicken to be financially sustainable. And that's not going to happen without more revenue. I would personally be willing to pay $100 or even $150 a year. The value of Quicken to me vastly exceeds that amount. And I'm using the Mac version (which is not as full-featured as the Windows version, though it also is much more modern technology and not nearly as creaky as the Windows version).

All of you folks that are opposed to paying a fair price for annual usage of Quicken -- please feel free to try the alternatives. I've personally tried them all (because until the last 12 months or so, Quicken Mac has not been good enough, so I've gone thru every conceivable alternative over the last 7 years). I've tried Banktivity. I've tried Mint. I've tried Personal Capital. I've tried MoneyDance. I've tried MoneyWise. Guess what, they all are pretty poor substitutes for Quicken (even the low-feature Mac version). If you think those other alternatives are good enough, you can move to them today, you don't need to wait.

Producing high quality software and keeping it operating requires money. Year after year, not just once. And high quality software is worth many multiples of even fair prices. $100 / year is a more than fair price for value received. I hope all of you that are searching for "never pay" and kvetching about paying for high quality software will reconsider. I will say right here -- Quicken, please move to subscription version ASAP. We want you to have sustainable revenue model and to continue to support and improve the product.

Regards, Nick
Hi Nick -

Welcome to the Bogleheads!

Thank you for your post related to Quicken for Mac. I had one question that I started another thread on that as a Mac user I am hoping you may be able to explain. How is the Quicken Mutual Fund Conversion feature for Mac? Does it work well for Vanguard mutual funds that convert from Investor shares to Admiral shares? Will it calculate correctly without rounding or cost basis issues?

Best.
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by bertilak »

Fintechnick wrote:I respect that this forum is full of people that hate spending money. What else would one expect from committed Bogleheads?
If so, I don't fit the mold.

I Like spending money IF it is money I can afford to spend. That's why I like Quicken's help in projecting cash flow. It lets me know when to spend 'em and know when to hold back. I need to ask Kenny Rogers to work that into a song!
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by michaeljc70 »

bertilak wrote:
Fintechnick wrote:I respect that this forum is full of people that hate spending money. What else would one expect from committed Bogleheads?
If so, I don't fit the mold.

I Like spending money IF it is money I can afford to spend. That's why I like Quicken's help in projecting cash flow. It lets me know when to spend 'em and know when to hold back. I need to ask Kenny Rogers to work that into a song!
I think most Bogleheads hate wasting money. Many have nice homes, cars, take nice vacations, etc.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Youngblood »

I'm really enjoying following all the different reasons people like or don't like Quicken.

I'm beginning to wonder what I am missing that I don't use in Quicken.

Budget? No

Cash flow? No

Steep learning curve? Thought it was all pretty simple except for when Quicken does things in ways I wouldn't and then when you can't customize.

Hoping for some tips that elicit the aha moment.

YB
"I made my money by selling too soon." | Bernard M. Baruch
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by TravelGeek »

Fintechnick wrote:Hi All,

I respect that this forum is full of people that hate spending money. What else would one expect from committed Bogleheads?

That said -- I have watched what has happened to Quicken over the years, and am THRILLED with the idea of Quicken switching to a subscription model, which would involve higher ARPU. Why? Because I want and need Quicken to be financially sustainable. And that's not going to happen without more revenue.
Nick,

I am a software engineer. I earn my living writing software. I get that creating good software and supporting it costs money. I have bought lots of software, in addition to choosing free/open source software where available.

I am no longer a Quicken user. I gave up a decade ago after buying new versions every few years and not really seeing many improvements and bugs that never got fixed.

I am not interested in supporting a software vendor that artificially limits the functionality of software when I stop paying for new versions. That is nothing but holding their customers' data hostage. I'd write my own custom software before I accept that business model. :beer
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Stormbringer »

Peculiar_Investor wrote:Quicken has moved to a subscription model
The software industry as a whole appears to be generally headed in this direction. Office 365 being a prominent example.
“The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function.” - Albert Allen Bartlett
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by BrandonBogle »

Fintechnick wrote: That said -- I have watched what has happened to Quicken over the years, and am THRILLED with the idea of Quicken switching to a subscription model, which would involve higher ARPU. Why? Because I want and need Quicken to be financially sustainable. And that's not going to happen without more revenue. I would personally be willing to pay $100 or even $150 a year. The value of Quicken to me vastly exceeds that amount. And I'm using the Mac version (which is not as full-featured as the Windows version, though it also is much more modern technology and not nearly as creaky as the Windows version).
Nick, I think there would be MUCH less pushback if they did the following:
  1. Offer a cost-level where you buy the product but do NOT need to reauthenticate it to Quicken's servers periodically (so if they ever go bust, you can still open the app and work with your data), but you do not get download transaction ability
  2. Require an annual subscription over the cost of buying the software that includes download functionality. This WOULD need to reauthenticate periodically to make sure your subscription is active.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Peculiar_Investor »

Stormbringer wrote:
Peculiar_Investor wrote:Quicken has moved to a subscription model
The software industry as a whole appears to be generally headed in this direction. Office 365 being a prominent example.
I understand and gave some counter arguments here and here on the Quicken forum.

Choice is all I'm requesting and most certainly the right to control my data files going forward. I will not let any software company hold my data hostage. Non-negotiable.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Uncle Pennybags »

Fintechnick wrote:Hi All,

I respect that this forum is full of people that hate spending money. What else would one expect from committed Bogleheads?
I don't mind spending money when I want to not when I'm held ransom. Interesting first post.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by abuss368 »

Stormbringer wrote:
Peculiar_Investor wrote:Quicken has moved to a subscription model
The software industry as a whole appears to be generally headed in this direction. Office 365 being a prominent example.
Has Quicken moved to a subscription model in the U.S.? I was under the assumption this was the Canadian market only at this point. Speculation of course is that the U.S. market will follow.
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by abuss368 »

Bogleheads,

I have come to rely on Microsoft Excel more and more as the year went on. I created a very simple 5 - 6 tabs in a spreadsheet to provide a Balance Sheet, 3 tabs regarding the investment portfolio such as a) investment allocation/rebalance, b) investment dividend income, and c) investment performance. I have a tab for the debt/mortgage and that really is it.

I found that our spreadsheet was very easy and provided the exact answer to our questions when we wanted it. Very easy to maintain with minimal input.
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Stormbringer »

abuss368 wrote:Has Quicken moved to a subscription model in the U.S.?
QuickBooks has been available as an online subscription for a few years now, but not Quicken. I think they've spun that off now, but it seems inevitable.
“The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function.” - Albert Allen Bartlett
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Uncle Pennybags »

abuss368 wrote:Has Quicken moved to a subscription model in the U.S.?
Not yet but that isn't my problem with them. I have to sign into their server randomly for no reason or I can't open Quicken. What if I don't have Internet access at that moment? Second is I can't copy or move my Quicken data to a stand alone program that I have total control over.

Maybe this "free stuff" generation doesn't mind being held hostage by M$/Google and such but I"m old school. I should have learned Excel when my brain was still pliable. :annoyed
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Grasshopper »

Long time Quicken user Q2016, If I pull the plug today on downloads now what is the chance that Q won't be able to ask for authentication, or stop me from manually inputting data. Is it possible that past updates already have their scheme in place and we are doomed.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Uncle Pennybags »

Grasshopper wrote:Long time Quicken user Q2016, If I pull the plug today on downloads now what is the chance that Q won't be able to ask for authentication, or stop me from manually inputting data. Is it possible that past updates already have their scheme in place and we are doomed.
I have/had 2015 and I had to log into their server whenever I wanted to open a backup file. We are like the frogs placed in warm water with a gradual temperature rise until we are cooked and didn't see feel it coming. These people must stay awake all night piloting these things out. Be afraid, be very afraid.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Tyler Aspect »

I am a past Quicken user during the Quick 2004 era. I stopped using Quicken because I felt I was typing in a lot of data, but yet I was still not sure how I spend my money.

After I retired from my programmer job I developed a free open source personal finance application to help me keep track of money. I use my program to keep track of all my cash income and expenses.

My application is named "Cash Flow", and it is available for download from Source Forge. I am into the second year using this application.

When you enter transactions into the program you are typing into a colorized text editor with auto-fill fields. Then you can select a few different reports to see your current situation. Point and click to answer "why" within a report cell.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by 2tall4economy »

I left quicken about 15 years ago when they stopped allowing qfx uploads without signing up for a premium product and?or online (Forget which but it was a veiled price increase). Dumped them and moved to an infinitely more flexible tool with perfect categorization - excel. Recommend you do the same.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by abuss368 »

I am surprised that we are Quicken "free" since Fall 2008! 9 years went by quick after using Quicken for almost a decade.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Uncle Pennybags »

The Quicken clowns sent me an email hustling "premium support" for a price. These money changers have lost touch with reality. I do hope this is not the new "reality". :x
2tall4economy wrote:Dumped them and moved to an infinitely more flexible tool with perfect categorization - excel. Recommend you do the same.
Is that the "cloud" subscription Excel? :mrgreen:
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by sandramjet »

2tall4economy wrote:I left quicken about 15 years ago when they stopped allowing qfx uploads without signing up for a premium product and?or online (Forget which but it was a veiled price increase). Dumped them and moved to an infinitely more flexible tool with perfect categorization - excel. Recommend you do the same.
I'd be inclined to do that if I knew how to download the data from my bank directly to excel using the ofx format...that's the format my bank supports.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by spammagnet »

sandramjet wrote:I'd be inclined to do that if I knew how to download the data from my bank directly to excel using the ofx format...that's the format my bank supports.
Do they not offer .CSV?
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