Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

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Uncle Pennybags
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Uncle Pennybags »

Quicken ID required, oh my.
So I'm screwed by having all of my data on Quicken 2015. I have to sign in with my Quicken/Intuit ID at times or it won't load a file. This is ransom ware plain and simple. There is no way to convert the data back to an earlier version ether. I smelled a rat for a few years now and the stink is getting stronger.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by gd »

Erwin wrote:Can you not use Quicken for perpetuity if you enter the data manually?
No one knows, that's the problem. RIght now, yes, once you register on installation. A few years from now, unclear. They could easily refuse to let you reinstall a current paid copy on a new computer, since it must register initially to work standalone. Worst case is if it requires occasional check-ins to continue working, and those get denied. I'm not aware that happens with my 2015 version, but since it could do it silently I can't say for sure. And no one knows if they'll slip that into new versions. Intuit has had an integrity problem for many years (e.g.: repeated unannounced TurboTax limitations starting around 2003), and this thread suggests the problem has migrated with Quicken rather than being left behind at Intuit, as many of us probably hoped for.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Peculiar_Investor »

Lots of good discussion and ideas here, but a reminder that Quicken needs to hear your message too.
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Nate79
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Nate79 »

Most software is migrating to a subscription model. The old model is apparently not sustainable.
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Goldrush
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Goldrush »

Saving$ wrote:
grandmacassie wrote:I've been using Quicken for ages....... I am distrustful of loading all my info into cyberspace. I am happy to manually enter my data...
This.
Bylo Selhi wrote:....There's a further wrinkle that in recent editions of Quicken your IntuitID (soon to be QuickenID) had to be validated by logging into their website every few months. That means that even if you keep all your data on local storage you may be locked out if you can't reach Quicken's servers or if Quicken decides to expire inactive IDs, etc.
Bogleheads: PLEASE advise which version this IntuitID business started.
I have never had to do this. Bought a copy of Q, loaded onto my computer, connected NOTHING to Q, enter all data manually, and click Cancel on every offer to "Update Quicken" or do online backup. I do NOT have an Intuit ID. My system works for my purposes. Reading the above I'd like to update to the latest version that will continue to allow me to operate as I have been operating.
Quicken 2014 and newer requires the use of an Intuit ID.

https://www.quicken.com/support/what-intuit-id
Viking65
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Viking65 »

Important thread here. I have apparently squeaked in under the wire as I am still using Q2013. I enter all transactions manually. I hope I can find my original disk, as I may have to use Q2013 forever... But more likely I downloaded it; any ideas if I can still get the original download again????

Goldrush wrote:
Saving$ wrote:
grandmacassie wrote:I've been using Quicken for ages....... I am distrustful of loading all my info into cyberspace. I am happy to manually enter my data...
This.
Bylo Selhi wrote:....There's a further wrinkle that in recent editions of Quicken your IntuitID (soon to be QuickenID) had to be validated by logging into their website every few months. That means that even if you keep all your data on local storage you may be locked out if you can't reach Quicken's servers or if Quicken decides to expire inactive IDs, etc.
Bogleheads: PLEASE advise which version this IntuitID business started.
I have never had to do this. Bought a copy of Q, loaded onto my computer, connected NOTHING to Q, enter all data manually, and click Cancel on every offer to "Update Quicken" or do online backup. I do NOT have an Intuit ID. My system works for my purposes. Reading the above I'd like to update to the latest version that will continue to allow me to operate as I have been operating.
Quicken 2014 and newer requires the use of an Intuit ID.

https://www.quicken.com/support/what-intuit-id
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by student »

Viking65 wrote:Important thread here. I have apparently squeaked in under the wire as I am still using Q2013. I enter all transactions manually. I hope I can find my original disk, as I may have to use Q2013 forever... But more likely I downloaded it; any ideas if I can still get the original download again????
Do you remember where you purchased it? Some stores, such as Amazon, allow you to redownload purchased software...
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flossy21
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by flossy21 »

ruralavalon wrote:What are the better alternatives to Quicken, for someone who wants automatic downloads and just wants to monitor spending?

Check out Moneydance. You can do downloads via .qif file (Quicken file format) and it gives you reporting functionality.

http://moneydance.com/
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Bylo Selhi »

Word is getting out to the media: Quicken Moving To Subscription Only Pricing
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SmileyFace
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by SmileyFace »

This isn't Quicken's future - this is the industry's future.
Most software is moving in this direction. As an example - look at Adobe. When Adobe moved to subscription-only pricing with its most popular products a couple of years ago - a lot of folks that were stuck in their old ways complained at first and there were lots of complaints but eventually most overcame this and bought subscriptions (although Adobe did have to do some price adjustments to get there). Now - many Photoshop, etc. customers see the benefit of getting updates far more often than they used to when they had to pay a hefty sum to upgrade (and therefore were only upgrading every 3 or 4 years). Microsoft is still offering both options for Office but I wouldn't expect this to continue beyond another couple of years.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Digital Dave »

I have Quicken 2014. I've been unhappy with the product for a long time. I decided that this was the last Quicken for me. I only use it to track my investments.

A few years ago I started using Google Sheets. I have a main sheet showing all investments, and then a bunch of sub-sheets for each fund.

I have two other sheets. One is for expenses. I list the date and store on the left, and then along the top is the category and I place the amount in the right box. At the bottom it is all added for me.

The other sheet is for income that is taxable, such as my Google Adsense , funds, banks, etc. I put in estimates until the time passes and the actual numbers can be entered. That way, I sort of know about what my income will be.

I still use a Libre Office sheet for my tax itemization. I probably should convert to GS as the year is young.

I'm very happy now. No more Q-anger for me.

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Uncle Pennybags
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Uncle Pennybags »

DaftInvestor wrote:This isn't Quicken's future - this is the industry's future.
Most software is moving in this direction. As an example - look at Adobe.
The big difference is Adobe isn't going to brick old software. I just bought 2017, this gives me three years to learn Excel.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by bertilak »

Youngblood wrote:This hasn't happened yet so I will just enjoy using Quicken until it does
That's my attitude, mostly. I would add it is time to think about what to do when the day comes.

One thing I like in Quicken that I would require in any substitute is the ability to schedule transactions ahead of time show they show up in the register as future transactions with running totals.. This is how I project cash flow.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by TravelGeek »

Uncle Pennybags wrote:
DaftInvestor wrote:This isn't Quicken's future - this is the industry's future.
Most software is moving in this direction. As an example - look at Adobe.
The big difference is Adobe isn't going to brick old software.
They won't brick it (discontinue subscription service) until they decide that it is in their best interest to brick it (think Google Reader). Personally, I would rather get fewer upgrades to Lightroom and have a guarantee that i can control my own destiny as far as management of my images is concerned.

If MS Money had been cloud based, would it still be offered today?
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by epicahab »

Microsoft Office and Adobe Photoshop did the same thing as well. Cloud-based subscription model.

Mint is good but it's very high-level. I take it we have a lot of members here who enjoy obsessively tracking every cent and classifying each transaction. Ask yourself if you can mentally simplify as well as in your preferred tool.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Easy Rhino »

Wow I didn't even realize Intuit had sold off Quicken.

I voted in the get satisfaction topic.

And man, this made me realize how much I miss MS Money. That was great stuff. The big problem I had was banks that stopped offering OFX downloads (I think Wells Fargo was the big one).
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Uncle Pennybags »

Quicken 2017 is like 2015 except for different fonts. This will be my Office 2016/Adobe CS6 of Quicken. I feel for the great unwashed who's only broadband choice is mobile. That cloud is very expensive at $10 a gig.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by boater07 »

I started another post about my problems on Q 17. Can't get transactions downloaded
for 2 banks. Have done it for many years with earlier versions. Also I don't like one step update that they seem to push
As of now, I'll be dumping Quicken
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Uncle Pennybags »

boater07 wrote:I started another post about my problems on Q 17. Can't get transactions downloaded
for 2 banks. Have done it for many years with earlier versions. Also I don't like one step update that they seem to push
As of now, I'll be dumping Quicken
I have to download the QFX file manually from Chase and Wells Fargo to get it to register in Quicken. Quicken is totally useless for Vanguard now that I switched to a brokerage account. I can't see paying perpetually for crap.

Is there any software that will convert Quicken files to another format? I assume not.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by TimeRunner »

Uncle Pennybags wrote:Is there any software that will convert Quicken files to another format? I assume not.
See flossy21's post upthread. There are others too.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Kenkat »

My issue is not with the subscription model. My issue is a subscription model that sounds like it will be 1-1/2 to 2 times as much for each year as the original purchase price of the software.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by SaturnV »

It looks like I may need to find an alternative by this time next year when my Quicken 2015 loses the ability to download.

My two key requirements are:
1. The software can pull from multiple financial institutions in one step. I do not want to have to download QIF files one by one myself.
2. I want to be able to "accept" transactions. I don't want transactions automatically reported, like Mint does.

I'd be happy with software that runs on Windows but I'd also be interested in trying an online service that I could use from a Chromebook or iPad.

Any ideas?
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Bylo Selhi »

Amazing what a tip to the media can accomplish :twisted:

Quicken shifts to software subscription model, but there's a big catch
But the idea that they could not continue to track finances by manually entering transactions fueled push-back from Quicken customers.

"If the subscription isn't renewed, manual access and updates to the data need to be allowed, otherwise the company will be perceived to be holding the customer's data hostage," argued Dan Glynhampton in a message posted to a Quicken support forum.

"Quicken is supposed to help me manage my finances, not prevent me from managing my finances," added mshiggins on the same thread.

When a Quicken representative intervened on the forum to say that the only real difference between a subscription and the older licensed software is "that manual transactions can't be added" when the former expires, users were quick to respond.

"If at the point the subscription ends my data essentially becomes frozen in time then that makes the program absolutely useless to me," asserted Perculiar_Investor.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Peculiar_Investor »

Wow, I'm quoted. I guess my 15 minutes of fame have started :D
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Bylo Selhi »

Peculiar_Investor wrote:Wow, I'm quoted. I guess my 15 minutes of fame have started :D
You're welcome! :mrgreen: :beer
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by noraz123 »

I just made the decision to stop using Quicken and start using Mint. I've not been a fan of the constant advertising windows that I must dismiss when I start up Quicken. While Mint is full of ads, I am somehow more accepting since I didn't pay for a hard copy to install on my home computer. And now moving to a subscription model that would prevent manual transactions and data sync is the last straw.

While I very much prefer Personal Capital over Mint for investment tracking, I find their expense tracking limited. And expense tracking is my primary use case for Quicken.

Goodbye Quicken.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by ralph124cf »

A possible substitute for Quicken is QuickBooks, if you already have a copy for business use. It is overkill, and not in the best format, but it can be made to work.

I certainly would not buy it just for personal use.

Ralph
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by cbeck »

The problem is that there is no substitute for Quicken. No competing program provides all the functionality that Quicken provides. And I use or have used almost all the features of Quicken. So, I can't switch. I think those who criticize Quicken for not providing substantial improvements or rolling out buggy release lose sight of the fact that there is no real competition. From time to time I have looked at other solutions like gnucash or moneydance only to find that they do not provide some functionality which I view as essential, such as investment performance reports that aggregate across accounts. That's a dealbreaker for me and all the candidates that I have looked at have at least one dealbreaker. Although Quicken is certainly not as good as it might be, it is the best.

It is worth pointing out that choosing an alternative means not just finding a product that provides the necessary functionality, but also identifying a company that is going to survive well into the future. And that's a very difficult task. Quicken has always been the top dog during the 20 years that I have been using it.

I understand that software companies need to have revenue. I don't regard the requirement to repurchase every three years as either unfair in principle or overpriced. The Home and Business edition that we use costs about $120. I would happily pay that every year which I would consider cheap for the value that Quicken provides to me. But I won't accept the possibility of losing access to my data.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by cbeck »

ralph124cf wrote:A possible substitute for Quicken is QuickBooks, if you already have a copy for business use. It is overkill, and not in the best format, but it can be made to work.

I certainly would not buy it just for personal use.

Ralph
Does Quickbooks provides all of the following functionality? If not, it's a non-starter for me.

establish and track household budget
provide multi-currency reporting and transactions
provide tax forms, such as capital gains, for personal income tax returns
track multiple investment portfolios including:
tracking cost basis
tracking daily pricing and portfolio valuations in multiple currencies
handling corporate actions correctly including spinoffs, splits, return of capital, divs, interest, etc.
calculate investment performance and aggregate correctly at the security, account, and account aggregation levels
take transaction feeds from brokerage firms
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by sandramjet »

cbeck wrote:The problem is that there is no substitute for Quicken. ...... From time to time I have looked at other solutions like gnucash or moneydance only to find that they do not provide some functionality which I view as essential, such as investment performance reports that aggregate across accounts. That's a dealbreaker for me and all the candidates that I have looked at have at least one dealbreaker.
Looking specifically at those two (gnucash and moneydance), can you provide some insight on what the various dealbreakers/weaknesses of each of them were? That would certainly help understand what might be lost if switching?

THanks!
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by TomatoTomahto »

I'm with cbeck. The only thing worse than Quicken is everything else.

I will happily (no, wait, begrudgingly) pay $100 per year if they retain current features and fix bugs. It provides more utility for me than that, so I'd pay a bit more if necessary, maybe $200.

I tried a couple of times to convert to free software. The conversions were not seamless, they were a goat rodeo.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by flossy21 »

IlliniGuy wrote:It looks like I may need to find an alternative by this time next year when my Quicken 2015 loses the ability to download.

My two key requirements are:
1. The software can pull from multiple financial institutions in one step. I do not want to have to download QIF files one by one myself.
2. I want to be able to "accept" transactions. I don't want transactions automatically reported, like Mint does.

I'd be happy with software that runs on Windows but I'd also be interested in trying an online service that I could use from a Chromebook or iPad.

Any ideas?
Moneydance meets both of your requirements. I have no affiliation with Moneydance other than being a satisfied user. I did make the switch from PC to MAC back in 2010 timeframe and needed to find a substitute for Quicken since Quicken for Mac is a lousy program. You can import all of your Quicken data as well. For me this required some cleanup but I was able to get all my Quicken data from 1997 to 2010 over to Moneydance after about 2-3 hours of work.

My process was pretty simple...

1.) Download and Install Moneydance via free trial link -- http://infinitekind.com/download-moneyd ... e-software
2.) Import Quicken file(s) (one big .qif file or one .qif file for every account) into Moneydance -- http://help.infinitekind.com/kb/importi ... qif-format
3.) Cleanup -- http://help.infinitekind.com/kb/importi ... om-quicken
4.) Set up downloads and move forward just like when you were using Quicken

It's definitely work to get this done. Keep in mind this is all free until you manually enter 100 transactions into the software then you have to buy it so you can go on for quite a while without hitting the 100 mark.

Moneydance has online forums for users located here -- http://help.infinitekind.com/discussions

Good luck.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by crankyoldguy34 »

I used Quicken for about 20 years, but became concerned about paying $60-80 every year for a product that was virtually unchanging. In 2012 I began using gnucash. It is clunky and developed for linux, the windows version works but my experience is with the linux version. I was unable to easily transfer my 20y worth of data from quicken, the import mechanism was not seamless at all (it worked, but the account hierarchy and categories were a mess) and it was easier to just begin anew. For each investment account, I set up the gnucash accounts using the cost basis and number of shares of equities and funds. Gnucash can download quotes (I believe it gets data from yahoo finance), and that works well. It has a mechanism for downloading transactions from banks etc but I've never been able to get it to work -- I have found it easier to just manually enter transactions as they occur, and then reconcile the gnucash accounts with online or downloaded statements.

Gnucash (given the above issues) has been rock solid, has kept impeccable records, the 'double entry' bookkeeping (once understood) makes accounting easy and seamless. The reports it can generate are very basic but are enough for my needs. Best of all it is free and can be tried with no cost (other than what time one spends evaluating it). I've been very happy with it and have never considered returning to the land of commercial products. The windows and linux versions store data in the same format, so you can use the same database (of your financial information) on either operating system version. It is periodically updated and any bugs are fixed, it is under active development. I would give it a "7" on a 1-10 scale, because it works well and the price is right. (If price were not an issue, I would probably still be using Quicken).
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Bylo Selhi »

TomatoTomahto wrote:I will happily (no, wait, begrudgingly) pay $100 per year if they retain current features and fix bugs. It provides more utility for me than that, so I'd pay a bit more if necessary, maybe $200.
The primary concern isn't the subscription model. I too can begrudgingly live with it.

The primary concern is that Quicken has decided to cripple the software and hold your data hostage if you don't pay up. This is a fundamental departure from previous practice where the product would continue to work indefinitely. Of course you'd lose online functions like downloading transactions, stock/ETF quotes, bug fixes and new features. But that's what the subscription is supposed to pay for. Instead Quicken have decided to deliberately cripple use of the product. Worse, because they update file formats in every edition, earlier un-crippled editions of Quicken won't be able to read files that were once managed by the new model. So once you enter Hotel Quicken 2017 "You can check-out any time you like, but you can never leave!"

There's no plausible explanation for this other than unbridled greed. This thread is intended to warn people of this so they don't get hooked, most likely in the US edition in 2018. (Quicken has already done this in the Canadian edition so this isn't hypothetical.)

Contrast with MS Money. When Microsoft decided to stop supporting it many years ago they released a free, final version. People have been using this version to this day to manage their money and investments. (That even includes people who never, ever paid a cent for that software.) Contrast with Office 365 where, when your subscription lapses, you can still read and edit your documents using desktop releases of Office. Microsoft makes no effort to cripple your use of your own data.

My concern is that Quicken will continue to milk their customer base by raising annual subscription fees in the knowledge that there's nothing those customers can do about it.

It's time to take a stand and just say, "No!"
Last edited by Bylo Selhi on Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Peculiar_Investor »

As always well stated Bylo. I couldn't agree more.

I'm just glad that I purchased Quicken 2016 last year, so I've bought myself time before the sunset policy kicks in on this version. If there is no change in Quicken's model with regard to what happens when a subscription lapses or the subscription pricing, then my plan is to consider Quicken 2016 my sunset edition and enter transactions manually. Given the bugs in Quicken 2016 and the requirement for an Intuit ID, I'm almost inclined to revert to Quicken 2013 and go through the pain of updating those data files manually to enter all the transactions since I upgraded.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by lostdog »

If the subscription is between $20 to $50 then I'll deal with it. Anything over that range I'll check out money dance or go full Google spreadsheets. I'll be very disappointed if I have to switch. I really enjoy Quicken.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by abuss368 »

We used Quicken over over a decade. We stopped using the software in 2008.
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by SaturnV »

flossy21 wrote:
IlliniGuy wrote:It looks like I may need to find an alternative by this time next year when my Quicken 2015 loses the ability to download.

My two key requirements are:
1. The software can pull from multiple financial institutions in one step. I do not want to have to download QIF files one by one myself.
2. I want to be able to "accept" transactions. I don't want transactions automatically reported, like Mint does.

I'd be happy with software that runs on Windows but I'd also be interested in trying an online service that I could use from a Chromebook or iPad.

Any ideas?
Moneydance meets both of your requirements. I have no affiliation with Moneydance other than being a satisfied user. I did make the switch from PC to MAC back in 2010 timeframe and needed to find a substitute for Quicken since Quicken for Mac is a lousy program. You can import all of your Quicken data as well. For me this required some cleanup but I was able to get all my Quicken data from 1997 to 2010 over to Moneydance after about 2-3 hours of work.

My process was pretty simple...

1.) Download and Install Moneydance via free trial link -- http://infinitekind.com/download-moneyd ... e-software
2.) Import Quicken file(s) (one big .qif file or one .qif file for every account) into Moneydance -- http://help.infinitekind.com/kb/importi ... qif-format
3.) Cleanup -- http://help.infinitekind.com/kb/importi ... om-quicken
4.) Set up downloads and move forward just like when you were using Quicken

It's definitely work to get this done. Keep in mind this is all free until you manually enter 100 transactions into the software then you have to buy it so you can go on for quite a while without hitting the 100 mark.

Moneydance has online forums for users located here -- http://help.infinitekind.com/discussions

Good luck.
Thank you! I've heard Moneydance mentioned, with positive comments here, but not many details. I'll give it a try.
cbeck
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by cbeck »

sandramjet wrote:
cbeck wrote:The problem is that there is no substitute for Quicken. ...... From time to time I have looked at other solutions like gnucash or moneydance only to find that they do not provide some functionality which I view as essential, such as investment performance reports that aggregate across accounts. That's a dealbreaker for me and all the candidates that I have looked at have at least one dealbreaker.
Looking specifically at those two (gnucash and moneydance), can you provide some insight on what the various dealbreakers/weaknesses of each of them were? That would certainly help understand what might be lost if switching?

THanks!
I did already in the post above yours. I only consider any replacement up to the point where it lacks a feature that is essential to me and then I drop it. As far as I can see neither gnucash nor moneydance report investment performance, i.e. percentage returns. Quicken reports performance at the security, account, and aggregated across accounts, all of which I deem essential.

So, end of story for me with gnucash and moneydance. Please correct me if I am wrong.
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FiveK
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by FiveK »

Peculiar_Investor wrote:Anyone interested can join the conversion conversation and provide feedback to Quicken on their forum, see Quicken Inc should reverse its decision to change to a subscription that makes the user's data read-only if they stop paying | Quicken Customer Community.
Thanks for the heads-up. Went there and did that.
sandramjet
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by sandramjet »

cbeck wrote:
sandramjet wrote:
cbeck wrote:The problem is that there is no substitute for Quicken. ...... From time to time I have looked at other solutions like gnucash or moneydance only to find that they do not provide some functionality which I view as essential, such as investment performance reports that aggregate across accounts. That's a dealbreaker for me and all the candidates that I have looked at have at least one dealbreaker.
Looking specifically at those two (gnucash and moneydance), can you provide some insight on what the various dealbreakers/weaknesses of each of them were? That would certainly help understand what might be lost if switching?

THanks!
I did already in the post above yours. I only consider any replacement up to the point where it lacks a feature that is essential to me and then I drop it. As far as I can see neither gnucash nor moneydance report investment performance, i.e. percentage returns. Quicken reports performance at the security, account, and aggregated across accounts, all of which I deem essential.

So, end of story for me with gnucash and moneydance. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Ok, Thanks for the info. I wasn't sure if you had a list of pro/con for each of the options, or (as you just described) if the dealbreaker was the same for both.
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flossy21
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by flossy21 »

cbeck wrote:
sandramjet wrote:
cbeck wrote:The problem is that there is no substitute for Quicken. ...... From time to time I have looked at other solutions like gnucash or moneydance only to find that they do not provide some functionality which I view as essential, such as investment performance reports that aggregate across accounts. That's a dealbreaker for me and all the candidates that I have looked at have at least one dealbreaker.
Looking specifically at those two (gnucash and moneydance), can you provide some insight on what the various dealbreakers/weaknesses of each of them were? That would certainly help understand what might be lost if switching?

THanks!
I did already in the post above yours. I only consider any replacement up to the point where it lacks a feature that is essential to me and then I drop it. As far as I can see neither gnucash nor moneydance report investment performance, i.e. percentage returns. Quicken reports performance at the security, account, and aggregated across accounts, all of which I deem essential.

So, end of story for me with gnucash and moneydance. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I am pretty sure that Moneydance does this. My investments show the cost basis, current value and %'age return on the individual page for that investment account. You can also create a custom investment report that slices and dices by security, account, etc.

You should download the free software, enter some sample transactions or just import a Quicken file for one of your investment accounts and then play with the data to see if it does what you want.

You could also ask in the Moneydance investment forum/message board here -- http://help.infinitekind.com/discussions/investments
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Bylo Selhi
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Bylo Selhi »

flossy21 wrote:Moneydance
I looked at Moneydance a couple of days ago. Here's my showstopper:

Return of capital
Ben Spencer Infinite Kind Support on Aug 23, 2015 wrote:We are not currently working on implementing return of capital. It is something we would like to add at some point but I cannot offer a timeframe for when this might happen.
Return of Capital
Ben Spencer Infinite Kind Support on Apr 02, 2016 wrote:There has been no change in the status of ROC in Moneydance. I realize this is important to you and I am sorry this does not meet your needs.
I found other requests to add RoC support to Moneydance going back a decade of more. Clearly they don't see this as a priority.

And not only return of capital, but also what Canadian ETF sponsors, including Vanguard Canada and Blackrock Canada, call Reinvested Distributions. These are essentially the negative of RoC, i.e. instead of lowering ACB an RD raises it. Quicken doesn't have an RD transaction but it does allow RoC of negative amounts, which amounts the same thing.

Without support for RoC and RD Moneydance is useless to Canadian ETF, REIT et al investors. But worse, Moneydance's refusal to add a simple transaction to their product, i.e. to manually adjust ACB, indicates that they're not as responsive to serving their customers as I would have expected from someone whose main competitor is Quicken.

DIY spreadsheets keep looking better and better :x
TravelGeek
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by TravelGeek »

Bylo Selhi wrote: Without support for RoC and RD Moneydance is useless to Canadian ETF, REIT et al investors. But worse, Moneydance's refusal to add a simple transaction to their product, i.e. to manually adjust ACB, indicates that they're not as responsive to serving their customers as I would have expected from someone whose main competitor is Quicken.
I wonder if someone who has been using Moneydance for several releases can comment on their pace of innovation and improvements, especially compared to, say, Quicken.
DIY spreadsheets keep looking better and better :x
I have to take a look at Moneydance's extension API one of these days. Also, GnuCash's open source model would remove the dependency on a software provider who isn't responsive to certain needs if there are users who have the necessary skill set.

(I downloaded GnuCash and Moeydance a few years ago in response to some other thread here, but never really found the time to "mess around" with either one)
frugalfraggle
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by frugalfraggle »

I checked out Moneydance a while back, but ended up going with Banktivity www.iggsoftware.com It has pretty solid investment tracking, budgets, etc.
deskjockey
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by deskjockey »

Anyone have any experience with AceMoney?
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Peculiar_Investor
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Peculiar_Investor »

While you can still vote, the Quicken Inc should reverse its decision to change to a subscription that makes the user's data read-only if they stop paying topic is now closed and marked "Under Consideration". So far there are 176 votes.
Quicken Kathryn, Official Rep wrote:Official Response
Hi All,

Thank you very much for your input and feedback. It’s looking like all of the points on this issue have been exhausted in this thread, so I will mark this Idea as “Under Consideration” and close the thread for now. I know a lot of folks are looking for a ‘final’ answer on the points raised here, and those answers will come, but any decisions made on product features, function, or pricing will take some time and review. We’ll update this thread whenever new information is available.

We’ve also updated the Quicken Canada Order Questions FAQ in order to clarify what happens when the subscription ends:

You’ll still be able to access, view, and export all of your financial data. You will never be blocked from accessing your financial history. However, Quicken will switch to a reduced functionality mode. In this mode, some features may be limited or unavailable. For example:
  • You can open existing data files and see all your existing data
  • You can view, edit, and delete existing transactions—including attachments.
  • You can create, run, print, and save reports.
  • You can export your data, make or restore a backup, and make a copy of a file.
  • You cannot access any Connected Services such as bank downloads, stock quotes, online bill pay, bill linking, credit score, or mobile sync.
  • You cannot add new transactions via file import or manual entry.
You can continue to vote for this idea using the voting buttons at the top of this page, and follow this thread if you’d like further updates.
There has been some movement from Quicken based on the feedback and votes so far, but for me that last point, You cannot add new transactions via file import or manual entry. is still a non-starter for me to consider ever upgrading my Quicken software again.

Quicken users in the US beware, all indications are this is coming in the next US version. Depending on where you are in Quicken's sunset policy, you might want to consider purchasing the current version before the next version comes out.
Normal people… believe that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain’t broke, it doesn’t have enough features yet. – Scott Adams
amarone
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by amarone »

I don't mind a subscription model (I use Office 365) - it comes down to price. I also don't care whether I can do manual transactions or not. I am never going to use a system that requires manual transaction entry. I just checked last month and had 294 transactions - no way am I going to enter those manually. And that excludes price updates for investments.

I've looked at Mint - it is well short of Quicken in capability.

So I suspect I will stay with Quicken even at a relatively high annual fee.
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Bylo Selhi
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by Bylo Selhi »

Quicken's CEO, Eric Dunn, has made an Official Response to peoples' comments about the move to a subscription model.

To see the comments to Mr Dunn's post you'll need to click "View all 97 replies and continue this conversation" and then go to page 4 of the thread.

So far the comments are considerably less than positive.
s0me0nesmind1
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Re: Quicken's future direction - a cause for concern

Post by s0me0nesmind1 »

I prefer the Quicken data, but if you want to try to squeeze monthly fees out of me to the tune of 5-8$ you're nuts. Companies these days LOOOOVE monthly fee's as consistent dedicated income that most people are simply too lazy to cancel.

I might be willing to pay 0.99 or $2.00 per month. Maybe. But most likely not. Just take a look at what has been accomplished over the last 10 years of yearly software upgrades to the tune of $40-100 per year. Nothing. Absolutely nothing of notable interest. Do you really trust that if you pump money in at a continuing basis that this will change? Especially when there are freeware versions such as Mint that accommodates the average consumer's demands?

Here's what I foresee if they go through with this:
70%+ of Quicken users will deflect, myself being one of them. If I can't find another software that is stored on my local computer then fine - I'll just go with Mint.
20% of people with no care for monetary costs will blindly accept the new monthly fee structure, likely from not caring about expenses in general.
10% of people will begrudgingly accept the new monthly fee structure, only because they are power users that demand Quicken's features that other software has yet to answer to.
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