Suze Orman - Let the Buyer Beware

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mlebuf
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Suze Orman - Let the Buyer Beware

Post by mlebuf » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:14 pm

Most Bogleheads know better but for those who don't, you may want to pass this link onto to them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZJh25-sO98
Best wishes, | Michael | | Invest your time actively and your money passively.

Dottie57
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Re: Suze Orman - Let the Buyer Beware

Post by Dottie57 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:42 pm

mlebuf wrote:Most Bogleheads know better but for those who don't, you may want to pass this link onto to them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZJh25-sO98

Alway read the contract you sign with a credit/debit card.

FRANK2009
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Re: Suze Orman - Let the Buyer Beware

Post by FRANK2009 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:21 pm

I didn't the much of the video, but I googled her "Approved Debit Card". The links indicate that the card was discontinued in 2014.

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dm200
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Re: Suze Orman - Let the Buyer Beware

Post by dm200 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:25 pm

I ignore Suze Orman.

The Wizard
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Re: Suze Orman - Let the Buyer Beware

Post by The Wizard » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:40 pm

dm200 wrote:I ignore Suze Orman.
I saw one of her infomercials with a studio audience on PBS the other night and it wasn't too bad, a lot of points that we here would agree with...
Attempted new signature...

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Re: Suze Orman - Let the Buyer Beware

Post by cmeretire » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:46 pm

dm200 wrote:I ignore Suze Orman.
+100

As soon as I hear her name I "move on"

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Re: Suze Orman - Let the Buyer Beware

Post by dm200 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:48 pm

The Wizard wrote:
dm200 wrote:I ignore Suze Orman.
I saw one of her infomercials with a studio audience on PBS the other night and it wasn't too bad, a lot of points that we here would agree with...
Even a blind squirrel find a nut now and then!

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Re: Suze Orman - Let the Buyer Beware

Post by TravelGeek » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:56 pm

1 hr 15 mins... can someone post a cliff notes summary?

BW1985
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Re: Suze Orman - Let the Buyer Beware

Post by BW1985 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:07 pm

The Wizard wrote:
dm200 wrote:I ignore Suze Orman.
I saw one of her infomercials with a studio audience on PBS the other night and it wasn't too bad, a lot of points that we here would agree with...
I miss her Saturday night show on CNBC. I watched with my wife while we were dating and it was entertaining enough to get her interested in personal finance.
"Squirrels figured out how to save eons ago. They buried acorns. Some, they dug up, for food. Others, they let to sprout, in new oak trees. We could learn from squirrels." -john94549

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Re: Suze Orman - Let the Buyer Beware

Post by Jags4186 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:10 pm

TravelGeek wrote:1 hr 15 mins... can someone post a cliff notes summary?
Basically the author is surprised to find out that the goal of Suze Orman's business is to make money.

Things they are annoyed about:

Suze Orman had a contract with Fair Isaacs so she hawked FICO products. When that contract went away she stopped focusing on FICO scores as much.
Suze Orman launched a prepaid debit card which had a ton of fees and she tried to make it sound as if it would help someone's FICO score. It didn't.
Suze Orman made a deal with someone who sent out a market newsletter hawking stock picks.

My argument against all of these--and people who poopoo on Dave Ramsey as well--continues to be that their audience isn't the crowd that is 35 years old, making $200k a year, has $800k in assets, and no debt.

Their audience is for those who are struggling or those who have done okay but really don't have a clue.

I still think the advice they give is good:

Live below your means
Save an emergency fund
Don't carry consumer debt
Buy a house you can afford
Learn to invest--and if you can't/don't want to hire someone who can help you.
Be properly insured/don't buy whole life insurance
Last edited by Jags4186 on Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

moneywise3
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Re: Suze Orman - Let the Buyer Beware

Post by moneywise3 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:11 pm

Suze Ormon is good for beginners who want an entertainment and celebrity path to get into personal finance. But once you have matured into Bogleheads philosophy, she's pretty useless.

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Re: Suze Orman - Let the Buyer Beware

Post by JMacDonald » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:13 pm

Here is a link about her debit card: https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/banking ... dont-sign/
Best Wishes, | Joe

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Re: Suze Orman - Let the Buyer Beware

Post by alfaspider » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:10 pm

moneywise3 wrote:Suze Ormon is good for beginners who want an entertainment and celebrity path to get into personal finance. But once you have matured into Bogleheads philosophy, she's pretty useless.
But many of us never had to start with that level of advice. All it takes is a modicum of independent research to get past it.

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Re: Suze Orman - Let the Buyer Beware

Post by Dottie57 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:28 pm

The Wizard wrote:
dm200 wrote:I ignore Suze Orman.
I saw one of her infomercials with a studio audience on PBS the other night and it wasn't too bad, a lot of points that we here would agree with...

I used to watch her show. Mainly because I was so happy that I wasn't on the show with overwhelming debt and that I was trying to buy something outrageous for my income.

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Re: Suze Orman - Let the Buyer Beware

Post by keystone » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:38 pm

Dottie57 wrote:
The Wizard wrote:
dm200 wrote:I ignore Suze Orman.
I saw one of her infomercials with a studio audience on PBS the other night and it wasn't too bad, a lot of points that we here would agree with...

I used to watch her show. Mainly because I was so happy that I wasn't on the show with overwhelming debt and that I was trying to buy something outrageous for my income.

+1. Watching the show always made feel good that I wasn't swimming in debt. I also loved the "Can I afford it?" segment and enjoyed trying to predict her response.

I really don't remember any advice on her show that would make a typical Boglehead cringe, but maybe I was oblivious to it back then.

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Re: Suze Orman - Let the Buyer Beware

Post by Dyloot » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:52 pm

I love Suze Orman. She's probably the reason I spent the time discovering this site.

One, in the capacity most of us know her, she's a motivational speaker. She preaches many ideas that Bogleheads love:

- Emergency Funds
- Don't buy what you can't afford
- Save for retirement
- Index funds rock

Two, she speaks to a very wide audience full of people who are not Bogleheads.

There's a real problem in this country with regular folks saving (or, rather, not saving) for retirement. Most lack the investment/retirement literacy to understand how woefully bad they're really doing. Orman, in a rather endearing way, tells people straight how badly they're doing, but gives them direction and hope for the future.

I rarely watch her nowadays, but there was a time when I needed her. Some of her presentations ultimately led me to open a Roth IRA in my 20s, which opened the door for discovering Vanguard, buying Bogle's and Boglehead books, and finding this forum. For that, she has my respect and my thanks.

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Re: Suze Orman - Let the Buyer Beware

Post by BW1985 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:15 pm

Dyloot wrote: I rarely watch her nowadays, but there was a time when I needed her
Her CNBC show isn't on anymore unfortunately. I heard she was coming out with a new show on a different network but haven't seen it on.
"Squirrels figured out how to save eons ago. They buried acorns. Some, they dug up, for food. Others, they let to sprout, in new oak trees. We could learn from squirrels." -john94549

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Re: Suze Orman - Let the Buyer Beware

Post by Dyloot » Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:53 pm

BW1985 wrote:
Dyloot wrote: I rarely watch her nowadays, but there was a time when I needed her
Her CNBC show isn't on anymore unfortunately. I heard she was coming out with a new show on a different network but haven't seen it on.
I saw her most recently on a long PBS special in November or so of 2016.

She was heavily recommending Roth 401k/IRAs to folks. For a Boglehead, probably not the recommendation of choice. For the non-savvy employee, I think the choice between 6% 401k vs. 6% Roth 401k is definitely Roth. I think many employees would be much better off with the extra cash in the Roth at 65 than the extra cash in their paycheck at 35.

And this really illustrates why I think Orman is great. Much of her audience needs to stop spending in the now and to start saving for retirement, and her stern recommendations hopefully pushes many of them in that direction. Could they do better contributing to a trad 401k and funding a Roth IRA on the side? Yup! Will many of them do it? Most of the folks I know are light years away from that.

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Re: Suze Orman - Let the Buyer Beware

Post by Dottie57 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:05 pm

alfaspider wrote:
moneywise3 wrote:Suze Ormon is good for beginners who want an entertainment and celebrity path to get into personal finance. But once you have matured into Bogleheads philosophy, she's pretty useless.
But many of us never had to start with that level of advice. All it takes is a modicum of independent research to get past it.
But this is a rare group. Most here are self motivated.

I know plenty of people who do not do much saving or investing. Their retirement will not be good.

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Re: Suze Orman - Let the Buyer Beware

Post by KSOC » Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:25 pm

I have always liked Financial shows. I remember a guy on the radio I'd listen to at night while I was fixing up our new home - Bruce Williams. Loved listening to him. Orman, Ramesy, Edeleman, Mack, Lemonis, etc. I learn things all the time. I like to hear callers situations and think to myself what I'd do. You also learn quickly your own financial issues aren't as bad as other folks.
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Re: Suze Orman - Let the Buyer Beware

Post by Tycoon » Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:17 pm

I'd rather listen to nails across a chalkboard.
Appeal to Pity:When pity is envoked to support a statement | Appeal to Popular Sentiment:Appealing to unrelated prejudices and attitudes | Hasty Generalization:Too little evidence to support the conclusion

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Re: Suze Orman - Let the Buyer Beware

Post by dm200 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:27 pm

Tycoon wrote:I'd rather listen to nails across a chalkboard.
+1

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Re: Suze Orman - Let the Buyer Beware

Post by inbox788 » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:28 pm

How would you rank in order of risk or harm?

Suze Orman
Dave Ramsey
Jim Cramer
Edward Jones Advisor
Wall Street Journal
Franklin Templeton Investments
John Hancock Funds

IMO, once in a while, she makes sense, and she's not the worst out there, thought that's not saying much.

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Re: Suze Orman - Let the Buyer Beware

Post by macheta » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:48 pm

moneywise3 wrote:Suze Ormon is good for beginners who want an entertainment and celebrity path to get into personal finance. But once you have matured into Bogleheads philosophy, she's pretty useless.
I use to listen to her growing up and I think I learned a little bit from her show. My favorite was probably her show "Can i afford it".

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Re: Suze Orman - Let the Buyer Beware

Post by 9-5 Suited » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:11 pm

inbox788 wrote:How would you rank in order of risk or harm?

Suze Orman
Dave Ramsey
Jim Cramer
Edward Jones Advisor
Wall Street Journal
Franklin Templeton Investments
John Hancock Funds

IMO, once in a while, she makes sense, and she's not the worst out there, thought that's not saying much.
Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I view Ramsey as a net positive. He does give one risky/harmful piece of advice with the 8% withdrawal rate recommendation. But most of the other things I disagree with him on (12% return expectations, credit card absolutism, all debt is bad, etc.) have pretty clear behavioral rationales for his audience. For example if he said credit cards are OK under XYZ conditions, the financially illiterate listeners would think "oh they're fine for me then, I'm one of the good people" and then end up with consumer debt. So he's trying to remove their excuses. Same thing with investing. A lot of them probably don't think investing is worth it, so he inflates expectations to get them to care about saving at all.

Jim Cramer is kind of harmless ... he's so over the top that's he more entertainer than anything. Wall Street Journal the same. It's a decent news source that competes in the reality of needing to sell out a bit to make money.

Edward Jones Advisors ... gross. Absolutely disgusting for the most part. The way they take advantage of certain populations is only a rung or two removed from the IRS call scammers. I'm sure many who work there have decent intentions or have rationalized their work, but I strongly dislike them and the equivalent firms. Northwestern Mutual ... shudder.

Franklin Templeton and John Hancock are not quite as bad as EJ. Still sucking money from investors, but at least I can somewhat understand the business of active fund management and why it exists. Their fees will eventually have to come down much further as The Vanguard Effect grows more powerful.

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Re: Suze Orman - Let the Buyer Beware

Post by lynneny » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:23 pm

I was addicted to Suze Orman's "Can I afford it?" segment. I used to watch it with a friend, and we'd anticipate her response by shouting "Approved!" or "Denied!" (If you didn't have a six-month emergency fund, Suze always denied you. Unless you were a mom who wanted to visit her kid in the military before s/he shipped out.)

I also liked Gail Vaz-Oxlade's show that followed Suze, and helped couples in debt re-invent their lives while living on a strict cash budget for a month. Gail started each show by snooping around the couple's home to see how much stuff they had that they couldn't afford.

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Re: Suze Orman - Let the Buyer Beware

Post by MathWizard » Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:04 pm

I think that her basic financial advice is good, I even gave her "Young, Fabulous and Broke" books to my kids.

One thing that I learned from her PBS special was that you could pull contributions from a ROTH IRA at any time.
I loved that, since I could use a ROTH and a second tier for my EF when I was first starting out. That helped me avoid wasting
that ROTH space. I knew that beyond short term liquidity, the odds were very low that I would use a 6 month EF.
By using a two tier EF, I was able to keep 3 months in savings and build to another 18 months in ROTH contributions.

This way, the ROTH did double duty.

I didn't like the "Can I afford it" segment, I thought it was silly. You should know what you are doing with your
own money, not asking someone on TV.

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