Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

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nitro4214
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Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by nitro4214 »

I've been at the same company for about 10 years, work in a small IT department at a large company.

I was brought in and encouraged to innovate, received many accolades, and they were happy with my work.

There has been a number of changes over the years. Several management changes and downsizings later, this is the current scenario:

- The department is a fraction of the size it used to be and there are only a few employees left.

- The emphasis seems to be on maintenance, rather than innovation. I was told by one of the corporate directors not to develop anything new. His concerns is that the product developed will not have anyone to support it if the programmers leaves.

- I have three different managers to answer to - immediate supervisor, branch director, and corporate director. Again, the corporate director (who is not on site) doesn't want me to work on anything new. The branch director recently assigned me a project. My immediate supervisor wants me more involved in support operations. They don't all seem to be on the same page.

- Two of my co-workers were recently promoted and one is now my supervisor. I was not promoted.

I am currently the only person in the group that knows software development. My new supervisor recently asked me to "train" a new hire and show him what I do. He flat out told me that he and his boss are concerned that they have no backup if I were to leave. He asked me to give the new hire a project to do to see what he knows. He said he has no programming background and is not sure that the new person knows as much as he claimed.

I'm a senior level employee but my job title doesn't reflect that. I've been there close to 10 years and this new employee has the same job title that I do. I've done everything I've been asked to do, have been loyal when I probably should not have been (stayed instead of jump ship when approached by old bosses), but it feels like I've been disrespected.

The other concern is that the new guy is not too knowledgeable in that area and will "break things" that I will have to fix and possibly be blamed for.

How should I play this? Should I embrace my new "leadership role" even though I don't have the title? Should I talk to my boss and/or go over his head about my concerns and see if I can get an honest answer? Forget about it and start seriously looking for something else?
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beyou
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by beyou »

Does not hurt to look around.

As far as getting a title, why does that matter,
if your employer is clearly cutting back on IT ?
You think you will get paid more just by getting a title ?


If the problem is overall company performance, little you may gain by staying. If the problem is IT mangement, moving up may give you some influence to fix things.
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nitro4214
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by nitro4214 »

blevine wrote:Does not hurt to look around.

As far as getting a title, why does that matter,
I guess it doesn't.
blevine wrote:if your employer is clearly cutting back on IT ?
You think you will get paid more just by getting a title ?
I'm okay with my salary even though I'm working below market. I live in a lower cost of living area so it works out.
blevine wrote:If the problem is overall company performance, little you may gain by staying. If the problem is IT mangement, moving up may give you some influence to fix things.
The company has had its financial issues but seems to be on the rebound. Hard to tell what the future looks like though. There is no opportunity to move up at this time but I do know that my boss has little knowledge of the work I do and his boss has little knowledge of IT in general as he came from a different department.
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Sandtrap
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by Sandtrap »

nitro4214 wrote:. . . . .
- Two of my co-workers were recently promoted and one is now my supervisor. I was not promoted. . . . . . . . .
My new supervisor recently asked me to "train" a new hire and show him what I do. He flat out told me that he and his boss are concerned that they have no backup if I were to leave.. . . . . .
I'm a senior level employee but my job title doesn't reflect that. I've been there close to 10 years and this new employee has the same job title that I do. . . . . . . .
I've done everything I've been asked to do, have been loyal when I probably should not have been (stayed instead of jump ship when approached by old bosses), but it feels like I've been disrespected. . . . . . . .
The other concern is that the new guy is not too knowledgeable in that area and will "break things" that I will have to fix and possibly be blamed for.

How should I play this? Should I embrace my new "leadership role" even though I don't have the title? Should I talk to my boss and/or go over his head about my concerns and see if I can get an honest answer? Forget about it and start seriously looking for something else?
Background: Context of my humble input: I have had 100's of employees over many decades as well as an employee before that. (Not anywhere near the experience of others here.)
(a few options and input -- ignore if not applicable or simply wrong)

1 If told by a supervisor that "he has not 'backup' if you were to leave" . . . . means he is worried that you are going to leave and taking measures to protect the work that needs to be done, may mean nothing personal.
2 Seriously look elsewhere for employment where you will feel appreciated and not disrespected.
3 Find a company that gives you a job title appropriate to a senior level position you seek.
4 Seek employment in a position and company where you will be passionate every day you go to work, for personal achievement as well as to share in building a company that you will be proud of.
5 New beginnings can be a wonderful thing.
6 As others here have said, it does not hurt to look around.

Good luck in your choices.
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Swansea
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by Swansea »

I agree with the others who suggest that you look for other opportunities. If you are not happy where you are, it is time to leave.
In many organizations the IT function is contracted out, so I would be on the look out for any signs that may be happening.
dolphintraveler
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by dolphintraveler »

nitro4214 wrote:I've been at the same company for about 10 years, work in a small IT department at a large company.

I was brought in and encouraged to innovate, received many accolades, and they were happy with my work.

There has been a number of changes over the years. Several management changes and downsizings later, this is the current scenario:

- The department is a fraction of the size it used to be and there are only a few employees left.

- The emphasis seems to be on maintenance, rather than innovation. I was told by one of the corporate directors not to develop anything new. His concerns is that the product developed will not have anyone to support it if the programmers leaves.

- I have three different managers to answer to - immediate supervisor, branch director, and corporate director. Again, the corporate director (who is not on site) doesn't want me to work on anything new. The branch director recently assigned me a project. My immediate supervisor wants me more involved in support operations. They don't all seem to be on the same page.

- Two of my co-workers were recently promoted and one is now my supervisor. I was not promoted.

I am currently the only person in the group that knows software development. My new supervisor recently asked me to "train" a new hire and show him what I do. He flat out told me that he and his boss are concerned that they have no backup if I were to leave. He asked me to give the new hire a project to do to see what he knows. He said he has no programming background and is not sure that the new person knows as much as he claimed.

I'm a senior level employee but my job title doesn't reflect that. I've been there close to 10 years and this new employee has the same job title that I do. I've done everything I've been asked to do, have been loyal when I probably should not have been (stayed instead of jump ship when approached by old bosses), but it feels like I've been disrespected.

The other concern is that the new guy is not too knowledgeable in that area and will "break things" that I will have to fix and possibly be blamed for.

How should I play this? Should I embrace my new "leadership role" even though I don't have the title? Should I talk to my boss and/or go over his head about my concerns and see if I can get an honest answer? Forget about it and start seriously looking for something else?
From the employer perspective, it is always dangerous to have a single point of failure. Thus asking you to train someone is not just reasonable, but a business necessity. The fact that they picked someone who is unskilled in the requisite area of expertise, is a bad choice for the business. I would train, but also politely mention if the person is slow to learn what additional skills may help. [Also can suggest learning outside of work to the trainee if appropriate. Lots of online classes and books if they are the self motivated type.]

From the employee perspective, the small (and shrinking) department can mean not a lot of room to grow. That alone would be reason for me to look around. If I wanted to stay in IT I would look outside, if I wanted a different role that the business provided I would look inside.

Add in the managers not agreeing and the no innovation, would also make me want to move.

Part of it may depend on which end of the career spectrum you are on - if close to retirement/financial independence/career change I wouldn't worry. If just 10 years into your career and still plan on 20+ more, I would ask can you see yourself working there in 20+ years? Would you be satisfied and happy? If so, do you think they will keep you that long? If not (on either question), keep your skills fresh and look around for when opportunity strikes best. I would also keep your current employer happy and don't burn any bridges if possible.
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nitro4214
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by nitro4214 »

Sandtrap wrote:Background: Context of my humble input: I have had 100's of employees over many decades as well as an employee before that. (Not anywhere near the experience of others here.)
(a few options and input -- ignore if not applicable or simply wrong)

1 If told by a supervisor that "he has not 'backup' if you were to leave" . . . . means he is worried that you are going to leave and taking measures to protect the work that needs to be done, may mean nothing personal.
And that could very well be the case. He has no knowledge of what I do and his boss even less. If I were to leave, they wouldn't know how to hire someone with my skills. Well I'm sure they could get help and find someone, nobody is replaceable, but it might be difficult to find the right person for the role.
Sandtrap wrote:2 Seriously look elsewhere for employment where you will feel appreciated and not disrespected.
3 Find a company that gives you a job title appropriate to a senior level position you seek.
4 Seek employment in a position and company where you will be passionate every day you go to work, for personal achievement as well as to share in building a company that you will be proud of.
5 New beginnings can be a wonderful thing.
6 As others here have said, it does not hurt to look around.

Good luck in your choices.
Thanks have been looking on and off but might have to step it up.
Rodc
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by Rodc »

Yes, time to increase the effort in looking for a better position.

Good luck.
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KlangFool
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by KlangFool »

OP,

You had said a lot of stuff in your post except the most important part:

A) What do you want out of your job and your life?

B) Then, the follow-on question will be can your current job help you to get there?

My impression is you had let others tell you what to do instead of asking the question (A) and (B).

What's in it for YOU? If YOU do not take care of yourself, no one else will.

In general, why would you stay at a small IT department for 10 years?

KlangFool
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by KlangFool »

nitro4214 wrote:
Sandtrap wrote:Background: Context of my humble input: I have had 100's of employees over many decades as well as an employee before that. (Not anywhere near the experience of others here.)
(a few options and input -- ignore if not applicable or simply wrong)

1 If told by a supervisor that "he has not 'backup' if you were to leave" . . . . means he is worried that you are going to leave and taking measures to protect the work that needs to be done, may mean nothing personal.
And that could very well be the case. He has no knowledge of what I do and his boss even less. If I were to leave, they wouldn't know how to hire someone with my skills. Well I'm sure they could get help and find someone, nobody is replaceable, but it might be difficult to find the right person for the role.
nitro4214,

How is that a problem for you? You are not the management. It is not your job and responsibility to deal with this. If the management thinks that this is a big problem, they would pay you a lot more and retention bonus to make sure that you do not leave.

It is not your job.

KlangFool
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Nestegg_User
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by Nestegg_User »

When I first read the post, I immediately thought your company was in the "death spiral " or was looking to contract out all IT work.
Are there anything else-- like late checks or missing 401k/health insurance payments-- that would indicate the later stages?

While it sounds like you might be training your replacement, it also sounds like the one supervisor is aware that the new employee might have been blowing smoke and needed someone who knew enough to better evaluate them (and potentially send them on their way and look for a better candidate). Sometimes the "titles " have less meaning than who is your "go to " person; I've been in that position (and believe me, trying to train someone up to ones own decades of experience isn't feasible) . Perhaps the lower level grunt work would be done by the newbie while you execute the more difficult work. If they don't agree-- time to do some searching...
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nitro4214
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by nitro4214 »

dolphintraveler wrote:From the employer perspective, it is always dangerous to have a single point of failure. Thus asking you to train someone is not just reasonable, but a business necessity.
Yes you are right, that is definitely true from an employer standpoint. We had another guy in the group before that knew the stuff before he moved on. Since then, it's been just me until now. I was talking to a friend who was telling me to be careful what I show him as if they're going to replace me if this new guy can do my job.
dolphintraveler wrote:The fact that they picked someone who is unskilled in the requisite area of expertise, is a bad choice for the business. I would train, but also politely mention if the person is slow to learn what additional skills may help. [Also can suggest learning outside of work to the trainee if appropriate. Lots of online classes and books if they are the self motivated type.]
From what I have gathered so far, he has some knowledge but it will take time for him to get productive. Not to mention that his #1 priority will be to learn the general IT stuff to help keep the place running. He has a lot to learn. So it's not like he's going to be in a position to replace me overnight but it is a possibility over the long term.
dolphintraveler wrote:From the employee perspective, the small (and shrinking) department can mean not a lot of room to grow.
Promotions are not based on skillset or even education which I do realize is common in the corporate world these days. Our new director has less education than everyone in the group. My immediate supervisor (who worked his way up) has made comments about him so there seems to be differences between the two.
dolphintraveler wrote:Part of it may depend on which end of the career spectrum you are on - if close to retirement/financial independence/career change I wouldn't worry. If just 10 years into your career and still plan on 20+ more, I would ask can you see yourself working there in 20+ years? Would you be satisfied and happy? If so, do you think they will keep you that long? If not (on either question), keep your skills fresh and look around for when opportunity strikes best. I would also keep your current employer happy and don't burn any bridges if possible.
I am mid-career, still have 20+ years as long as the ageism thing doesn't kick in. I'd have to think about the first question a bit. I am underutilized but am able to keep busy. It has its pros and cons like any other job and I question if the grass is greener elsewhere. As for the second, that's difficult to tell. Most people who I've seen who have been in the department 10+ years (which there haven't been many) either were laid off or moved on when they found a better opportunity. I have no illusion that if they were to find some way to have my work done for a lower price that they wouldn't pursue that option.
Dantes
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by Dantes »

I can't see why you would't move on. You have no developer colleagues, are discouraged or prevented from doing development, are being pushed into support, others are promoted around you, and now they've hired some junior person who management thinks can server as your backup with a little training.

Its an unfortunate fact of life that IT Management at the moment is often filled with people who have no actual technical experience.

If you don't think you can do better elsewhere than I'm not sure how you define "do better".
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nitro4214
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by nitro4214 »

KlangFool wrote:OP,

You had said a lot of stuff in your post except the most important part:

A) What do you want out of your job and your life?
A steady paycheck :) At least until I come up with that big idea and do my own thing.
KlangFool wrote:B) Then, the follow-on question will be can your current job help you to get there?
Yep it would keep the bills paid in the meantime
KlangFool wrote:My impression is you had let others tell you what to do instead of asking the question (A) and (B).

What's in it for YOU? If YOU do not take care of yourself, no one else will.
That is true!
KlangFool wrote:In general, why would you stay at a small IT department for 10 years?

KlangFool
Not to many other options in the area I live in, there's mostly entry level stuff where I'm at.
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nitro4214
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by nitro4214 »

KlangFool wrote:
nitro4214 wrote:
Sandtrap wrote:Background: Context of my humble input: I have had 100's of employees over many decades as well as an employee before that. (Not anywhere near the experience of others here.)
(a few options and input -- ignore if not applicable or simply wrong)

1 If told by a supervisor that "he has not 'backup' if you were to leave" . . . . means he is worried that you are going to leave and taking measures to protect the work that needs to be done, may mean nothing personal.
And that could very well be the case. He has no knowledge of what I do and his boss even less. If I were to leave, they wouldn't know how to hire someone with my skills. Well I'm sure they could get help and find someone, nobody is replaceable, but it might be difficult to find the right person for the role.
nitro4214,

How is that a problem for you? You are not the management. It is not your job and responsibility to deal with this. If the management thinks that this is a big problem, they would pay you a lot more and retention bonus to make sure that you do not leave.

It is not your job.

KlangFool
No, it's not. I guess that is why they want me to train someone else to do the job.
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nitro4214
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by nitro4214 »

Nearing_Destination wrote:When I first read the post, I immediately thought your company was in the "death spiral " or was looking to contract out all IT work.
Are there anything else-- like late checks or missing 401k/health insurance payments-- that would indicate the later stages?
No
Nearing_Destination wrote:While it sounds like you might be training your replacement, it also sounds like the one supervisor is aware that the new employee might have been blowing smoke and needed someone who knew enough to better evaluate them (and potentially send them on their way and look for a better candidate). Sometimes the "titles " have less meaning than who is your "go to " person; I've been in that position (and believe me, trying to train someone up to ones own decades of experience isn't feasible) . Perhaps the lower level grunt work would be done by the newbie while you execute the more difficult work. If they don't agree-- time to do some searching...
Yes he did say something about not being able to verify if the guy was being honest with him about having those skills. That's what I really need, someone to take care of the lower level grunt work while I work on the higher level stuff. I guess I will need to make that clear. I could slowly break him in but he'll need to deal with the lower level stuff and pays his dues (unless he's really good, in that case, he could play a larger role).
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nitro4214
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by nitro4214 »

Dantes wrote:I can't see why you would't move on. You have no developer colleagues, are discouraged or prevented from doing development, are being pushed into support, others are promoted around you, and now they've hired some junior person who management thinks can server as your backup with a little training.

Its an unfortunate fact of life that IT Management at the moment is often filled with people who have no actual technical experience.

If you don't think you can do better elsewhere than I'm not sure how you define "do better".
That's a good summary of the situation. Perhaps I should step up the job search and move on.
jsabertsch
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by jsabertsch »

It may be possible that the reason that they do not want you to work on any innovations is that they may be looking to sell the company. One sign is that they start cutting to bare bones, and do not hire/replace with any but lower cost employees. I would keep my antenna up, when they are discouraging new things/innovation, it is for a reason, and not always the one that they are telling you. Good Luck.
HopeToGolf
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by HopeToGolf »

There are bigger picture and more important questions you should ask yourself regarding career aspirations and whether this role and company can help you fulfill them.

However, I would be concerned if I were in a smallish department and not one but two colleagues were promoted around me, I felt equally or more qualified for the promotions, told management at some point I was interested in advancement and I was being asked to train someone in order to strengthen the bench.

If you are ambitious and the the fit is not there, look elsewhere.
tim1999
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by tim1999 »

Sounds like you are going nowhere here. Start looking for employment elsewhere. I've noticed that most non-management IT people at my employer are considered "stale" after 10 years or so and never receive promotions or get different work given to them.
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Watty
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by Watty »

I retired out of corporate IT in 2015 when I was 59 after about 35 years in various forms of software development.

It is hard to tell what is really going on in your company but one huge problem is the the longer you are not doing serious software development then the less employable you will be in the future. People like to complain that age discrimination is a big problem in IT, and it is, but a significant number of older IT employees either become too specialized or they let their skills stagnate so it is not just age discrimination that makes it harder for older OT workers to find jobs.

If you want to keep doing software development then it would be good to find someplace where you that is a major part of your job. This would be a good time to look since the IT job market is real strong right now but if you wait another five years then you may be looking for a job in a soft job market.

I would not automatically panic about training the new employee being part of a plan to force you out.

Before they were promoted it sounds like your old coworkers could have filled in for you if your were on vacation or if you were out sick so getting the new employee up to speed may be more to fill the gap that their promotion left than a plan to replace you.

The before the promotion the you may have told the coworker who is now your supervisor more than you would say to a supervisor about how unhappy you are with the lack of new software development so he or she may be concerned, with good reason, about your leaving on your own.

In addition to concern about you leaving they may also have concerns about how to fill in for you if you are out on vacation or in the hospital. I worked in a large IT department and over the years in addition to people leaving for other jobs there were also situations where people were killed in car accidents, unexpectedly died of a heart attack, or had to suddenly go out on sick leave for several months. Your old coworkers may have new responsibilities that would make if difficult for them drop what they are doing to fill in for you even if they could.

If the new employee learns what you do then they give you the boot then they will need to be worried about what to do if something happens to the new employee instead of worrying about what happens to you.

You have a better feel of what is going on but my gut feel is that if they really wanted to get rid of you then they would not have promoted both your coworkers when they could have left one of them to cover for you.

A lot of what to do depends on your age. For the last ten years of my career I only did a little bit of new software development and I spent most of my time supporting old software that I had helped develop and doing conversions of facilities to newer replacement software. No one is indispensable but I was pretty secure in the support roll. At that point it was OK with me since it seemed secure and I knew that the job would likely last as long as I needed it to last to retire.
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by Cruise »

OP: As I read your post, I opine that you are toast.

Sorry for the blunt response, but that is my appraisal. You are being messaged in various ways that you are not valued and that your interests have diverged from the company's.

This new hire you are training: Watch what you say to him, for he may be sharing any negatives you verbalize about the company.

You have two choices: Try to fit into a new situation in your company that does not meet your needs, or get out and find a new challenge that does meet your interests.

Good luck.
student
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by student »

You posted this a few months ago about a job offer viewtopic.php?f=2&t=200813&p=3080905#p3080905
so obviously you are marketable. It was a job with better pay and you didn't take the job. I understand that you are comfortable where you are. If they promote someone over you and you wanted the promotion yourself, then maybe it is time to move on.
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HomerJ
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by HomerJ »

Unless you are retiring in the next 2-3 years, this sounds like a total dead-end company.

In general, it is not a good idea for IT people to stay with the same company for 10+ years. ESPECIALLY a company that is no longer innovating.

IT changes rapidly. If you're just supporting old systems, and not learning anything new, you need to leave now, or when they do fire you, you will have very few job prospects.
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ClevrChico
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by ClevrChico »

It is very common for a large company to focus on having back up personnel, especially in IT. It's also common to freeze new projects when business demands it. I don't think they're trying to push you out. If they wanted you gone, you'd be gone.

If things are stagnant, you may want to look around if you don't enjoy your job.
ghudson
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by ghudson »

Personally, I think the issue is a lack of communication with your bosses. These are easy things to hash out with them by just asking.

Also, I never enjoy having more than one direct supervisor. That tends to get confusing tracking priorities.

...

I'm a manager and I'm not planning to fire anyone -- yet I still have a management goal for more than one person to be able to do each things my team is responsible. It's just sound risk management.
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by KernelSanders »

OP, in my opinion it is clearly time for you to move on from this position. Here are a few takeaways related to lessons I have learned in a similar career.

1) It seems like your current workplace has a short term outlook and views IT as a cost center, so they're going to focus on doing it as cheaply as possible. I would recommend looking for a position that sees technology as a profit generator or force multiplier and is willing to make long term investments.

2) Your company doesn't appear to understand your skillset and is thus not rewarding you appropriately. You can try to convince them of the value you are providing, but in my opinion it would be much easier and more lucrative to find a new position somewhere that already recognizes the value of your abilities and is willing to pay/title you appropriately.

3) You feel like your loyalty has gone unrewarded, but I think that having your old bosses approach you is evidence of the opposite. In my experience, loyalty to people pays off much more than loyalty to companies. I would not be surprised if the managers who tried to bring you with them were also the ones who encouraged innovation and recommended accolades. I bet that these managers who wanted to work with you in the past would also be interested in working with you now, so they would be great places to start your search.

4) Having more than one boss / getting conflicting orders from the management chain is a red flag in my opinion. These situations often result in all of the higher ups dumping responsibilities on you and all of them passing the buck when it comes time to reward you. If you have three different sets of expectations, at least one of those managers are going to be disappointed.
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by Mudpuppy »

nitro4214 wrote:How should I play this? Should I embrace my new "leadership role" even though I don't have the title? Should I talk to my boss and/or go over his head about my concerns and see if I can get an honest answer? Forget about it and start seriously looking for something else?
On your previous employment thread, many people told you about the alarming warning signs occurring at your company and said you should start seeking other options. This is the same employer many posters warned you about in the previous thread. Why did you pass on your alternative job offer you also posted about?

Please go back and re-read the advice on your previous thread. Multiple posters were very clear about the issues that were apparent. There is rarely such a thing as "loyalty bonuses" at a megacorp, so sticking it out in the hopes it will get better can be a bad plan.

Edit: Fixed a section that was already answered in a previous response.
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by nitro4214 »

Watty wrote:It is hard to tell what is really going on in your company but one huge problem is the the longer you are not doing serious software development then the less employable you will be in the future.
That's what I'm afraid of. Seems the track I'm on is to be less and less of a developer....and more and more of a technical support/systems analyst type. From what I've gathered after discussion with some peers in the field, many companies see coding as a "menial" task (despite its challenges) and the people who are "analyst" are higher ranked employees. YMMV. That seems to be the direction this company is going, however, as well as a few companies I've spoken to recently.
Watty wrote: If you want to keep doing software development then it would be good to find someplace where you that is a major part of your job. This would be a good time to look since the IT job market is real strong right now but if you wait another five years then you may be looking for a job in a soft job market.
Yes that's another concern. There may not be a scheme to run me off. It's going to take the new guy a long time to get up to speed due to the volume of systems we are responsible for. But what I could find is that I slowly lose any leverage I have and then if/when they do give me the boot down the line, it could be that much more difficult to find a new position.
Watty wrote: Before they were promoted it sounds like your old coworkers could have filled in for you if your were on vacation or if you were out sick so getting the new employee up to speed may be more to fill the gap that their promotion left than a plan to replace you.

The before the promotion the you may have told the coworker who is now your supervisor more than you would say to a supervisor about how unhappy you are with the lack of new software development so he or she may be concerned, with good reason, about your leaving on your own.
They could fill in for me as far as IT support goes, but they don't know anything about software development.
Watty wrote:In addition to concern about you leaving they may also have concerns about how to fill in for you if you are out on vacation or in the hospital. I worked in a large IT department and over the years in addition to people leaving for other jobs there were also situations where people were killed in car accidents, unexpectedly died of a heart attack, or had to suddenly go out on sick leave for several months.

If the new employee learns what you do then they give you the boot then they will need to be worried about what to do if something happens to the new employee instead of worrying about what happens to you.
That is true. The first half of my tenure, there was a second developer. I actually was brought in to show him how to write software and we worked together on some projects. He eventually moved on. Perhaps I am being a little too paranoid. OTOH I have seen people run off (either via lay off or managed out) when they are around as long as I have been. It's difficult to tell what their intentions are. And of course back when we had a 2nd guy that knew software, there were more projects in the works and a higher budget.
Watty wrote:A lot of what to do depends on your age. For the last ten years of my career I only did a little bit of new software development and I spent most of my time supporting old software that I had helped develop and doing conversions of facilities to newer replacement software. No one is indispensable but I was pretty secure in the support roll. At that point it was OK with me since it seemed secure and I knew that the job would likely last as long as I needed it to last to retire.
I was told by an old director that I would never have to worry about being laid off, but he's no longer with the company so I take that with a grain of salt :)
Last edited by nitro4214 on Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by nitro4214 »

Cruise wrote:This new hire you are training: Watch what you say to him, for he may be sharing any negatives you verbalize about the company.
Yep, learned this lesson the hard way at a previous job. :)
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by nitro4214 »

ghudson wrote:Also, I never enjoy having more than one direct supervisor. That tends to get confusing tracking priorities.
I used to have a Director and Manager that were openly hostile toward each other and I was often in the middle of their conflicts. Not a fun situation to be in.
ghudson wrote:I'm a manager and I'm not planning to fire anyone -- yet I still have a management goal for more than one person to be able to do each things my team is responsible. It's just sound risk management.
From their standpoint, I understand. I'm surprised it's taken this long honestly. But still, I had this thought in the back up my mind because there is less new development these days, barely enough for one person, let alone two.
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by Pajamas »

You might linger there for years but it's time to look for a better job.
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by nitro4214 »

KernelSanders wrote:1) It seems like your current workplace has a short term outlook and views IT as a cost center, so they're going to focus on doing it as cheaply as possible. I would recommend looking for a position that sees technology as a profit generator or force multiplier and is willing to make long term investments.
Exactly. They do view IT as a cost center.
KernelSanders wrote:2) Your company doesn't appear to understand your skillset and is thus not rewarding you appropriately. You can try to convince them of the value you are providing, but in my opinion it would be much easier and more lucrative to find a new position somewhere that already recognizes the value of your abilities and is willing to pay/title you appropriately.
Exactly. The old management team knew what value I could provide. I don't think the current management team "gets it" as far as providing business value. As long as things are running and their bosses aren't breathing down their throat, they're okay with maintaining the status quo.
KernelSanders wrote:3) You feel like your loyalty has gone unrewarded, but I think that having your old bosses approach you is evidence of the opposite. In my experience, loyalty to people pays off much more than loyalty to companies. I would not be surprised if the managers who tried to bring you with them were also the ones who encouraged innovation and recommended accolades. I bet that these managers who wanted to work with you in the past would also be interested in working with you now, so they would be great places to start your search.
The ones who did offer me a job did like my work because it made them look good. They had abrasive personalities and were not pleasant people to work with on a day-to-day basis. That's why I turned them down.
KernelSanders wrote:4) Having more than one boss / getting conflicting orders from the management chain is a red flag in my opinion. These situations often result in all of the higher ups dumping responsibilities on you and all of them passing the buck when it comes time to reward you. If you have three different sets of expectations, at least one of those managers are going to be disappointed.
It's a strange situation for sure. We have one director who works out of state, we rarely see him, and he told me he doesn't want anything new created. The other director (who works in our office) scheduled a meeting last week with me and another director and wants me to move forward on a project. If it were up to my immediate supervisor (who is a good leader but not really business-minded), I'd be strictly a support person since we're short handed in that area. My software doesn't do him any good but he can (and does) use me to help him put out fires. I will find myself pulled in different directions at times.
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by tractorguy »

When I left my mechanical engineering management job at megacorp 5 years ago, their was a well defined upper management belief that business system software was not a differentiator and that they should buy turnkey off the shelf systems whenever possible and modify them as little as possible. This trend away from in house developed systems had been going on for several decades. Since you say that you are the only one doing development and the corporate director is telling you to not work on anything new, it sounds like your company management believes the same thing. Budgets will reflect this belief no matter what lower level staff are saying. IMOP, your desire to do software development isn't going to be rewarded at your company unless you get a new set of top managers. I wouldn't wait for this to happen while my skills got rusty.
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by Clever_Username »

nitro4214 wrote:Not to many other options in the area I live in, there's mostly entry level stuff where I'm at.

Apologies if this was said elsewhere and I missed it, or if this is too personal, but is anything tying you to this area (own a house that you'd prefer to not sell, family, etc)? It might be worth widening your job search.

Because, for what it's worth with my limited (two years, total) corporate experience, it does sound like your current job is going nowhere and, at the very least, they're preparing (not very well, if that new hire doesn't really know much about software development) to prepare for if you aren't there, as if they're expecting it (either because they think you're leaving, or they plan to have you leave).
"What was true then is true now. Have a plan. Stick to it." -- XXXX, _Layer Cake_ | | I survived my first downturn and all I got was this signature line.
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by nitro4214 »

Mudpuppy wrote:Why did you pass on your alternative job offer you also posted about?
I decided not to relocate.
Mudpuppy wrote:Please go back and re-read the advice on your previous thread. Multiple posters were very clear about the issues that were apparent. There is rarely such a thing as "loyalty bonuses" at a megacorp, so sticking it out in the hopes it will get better can be a bad plan.
I agree and have been looking around a bit. I wear so many hats (i.e. jack of all trades) that I just don't qualify for a lot of jobs that are posted, and employers are so picky. You might know A, B, C, F, G, I, J, and K. They want D, E, F, G, J, and M. Most of them are not willing to budge if you are not an exact match for their requirements and ready to hit the ground running. A "willingness to learn" is not good enough even if you hit most of their requirements.
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by nitro4214 »

tractorguy wrote:When I left my mechanical engineering management job at megacorp 5 years ago, their was a well defined upper management belief that business system software was not a differentiator and that they should buy turnkey off the shelf systems whenever possible and modify them as little as possible. This trend away from in house developed systems had been going on for several decades.
Yes this seems to be a trend not only adopted by my current employer but I had a phone interview the other day. The manager couldn't figure out how they justified having me write code. Once we talked about it some more, he seemed to be more open-minded about it. I've spoken to a couple of other managers who prefer on site development and having someone with the company own it. Perhaps they had bad experiences with a vendor. That's what led to me being hired at my current company in the first place.
tractorguy wrote: Since you say that you are the only one doing development and the corporate director is telling you to not work on anything new, it sounds like your company management believes the same thing. Budgets will reflect this belief no matter what lower level staff are saying. IMOP, your desire to do software development isn't going to be rewarded at your company unless you get a new set of top managers. I wouldn't wait for this to happen while my skills got rusty.
It's an awkward situation for sure. I'm underpaid as a developer but an overpaid support person. They have me occasionally doing things like changing printer cartridges. I guess if I want to continue working with software and databases then I will have to move on. Or else stay and become a glorified desktop support specialist.
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by nitro4214 »

Clever_Username wrote:Apologies if this was said elsewhere and I missed it, or if this is too personal, but is anything tying you to this area (own a house that you'd prefer to not sell, family, etc)? It might be worth widening your job search.
Yes, you hit the hammer on the nail, those are the reasons.
Clever_Username wrote:Because, for what it's worth with my limited (two years, total) corporate experience, it does sound like your current job is going nowhere and, at the very least, they're preparing (not very well, if that new hire doesn't really know much about software development) to prepare for if you aren't there, as if they're expecting it (either because they think you're leaving, or they plan to have you leave).
That is an accurate assessment. This isn't the first time there has been concern about me quitting. A previous boss once asked me why I don't go to "the city" and make more money and said something about not being able to pay me what I'm worth. I don't think he factored cost of living in the equation.
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by HomerJ »

nitro4214 wrote:It's an awkward situation for sure. I'm underpaid as a developer but an overpaid support person. They have me occasionally doing things like changing printer cartridges. I guess if I want to continue working with software and databases then I will have to move on. Or else stay and become a glorified desktop support specialist.
How close to retirement are you?

If you are 10+ years from retirement, you are going to be in real trouble.

You think it's hard to find a new job now? Wait until 5 more years go by of you doing very little to help your resume.
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by Mudpuppy »

nitro4214 wrote:I agree and have been looking around a bit. I wear so many hats (i.e. jack of all trades) that I just don't qualify for a lot of jobs that are posted, and employers are so picky. You might know A, B, C, F, G, I, J, and K. They want D, E, F, G, J, and M. Most of them are not willing to budge if you are not an exact match for their requirements and ready to hit the ground running. A "willingness to learn" is not good enough even if you hit most of their requirements.
You need to network with people to find out if that list of requirements is really set in stone or if it's just intended to scare people off. Unless the ad has been designed with hiring a particular person in mind, job ads are often looking for a "purple squirrel", but they'll settle for someone who is just a squirrel, proverbially speaking. Knowing people at the company through professional societies or other networking is also a way to get them to be more flexible in their requirements or to be willing to take a chance by giving you some time to learn.

A perfect job isn't going to fall off the turnip truck. You have to work at it. That's why networking is key. Even virtual networking through a professional forum or LinkedIn can yield better results than just doing the resume equivalent of cold calling.
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by nitro4214 »

Mudpuppy wrote:You need to network with people to find out if that list of requirements is really set in stone or if it's just intended to scare people off. Unless the ad has been designed with hiring a particular person in mind, job ads are often looking for a "purple squirrel", but they'll settle for someone who is just a squirrel, proverbially speaking. Knowing people at the company through professional societies or other networking is also a way to get them to be more flexible in their requirements or to be willing to take a chance by giving you some time to learn.
I live in a small town and work in a medium sized town. There are no networking events, professional societies, or the like. Maybe take a day off and go to the nearest city?
Mudpuppy wrote:A perfect job isn't going to fall off the turnip truck. You have to work at it. That's why networking is key. Even virtual networking through a professional forum or LinkedIn can yield better results than just doing the resume equivalent of cold calling.
I don't think there's any such thing as a perfect job unless you're running your own show. There are always going to be pros and cons. There are always going to be trade offs.

You are right about the importance of networking which I admit I haven't done a good job at. Nobody sat me down and explained any of this career stuff to me when I started out (i.e. you only get decent raises by jumping ship, importance of networking, actively managing ones career, etc).
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by Rodc »

HomerJ wrote:
nitro4214 wrote:It's an awkward situation for sure. I'm underpaid as a developer but an overpaid support person. They have me occasionally doing things like changing printer cartridges. I guess if I want to continue working with software and databases then I will have to move on. Or else stay and become a glorified desktop support specialist.
How close to retirement are you?

If you are 10+ years from retirement, you are going to be in real trouble.

You think it's hard to find a new job now? Wait until 5 more years go by of you doing very little to help your resume.
This.

Since you are 20+ years from retirement you are on a very dangerous and unsustainable path.

You need to make some serious readjustments of what you are doing to either align better with this company, learn new skills that make you more marketable, or far better than staying with this company - get a new job that will allow you to grow your skills. I strongly suggest you open up to relocating.

Not to put too fine a point on it but you are on a career death spiral - even if like the proverbial frog in the pot of water on the fire - you do not recognize it yet. You are headed for being obsolete at age 50ish when reconstructing a well paid career is very difficult. I have seen this time and time again - you simply cannot coast along hoping things will get better for 20 years. You need to take charge of your career.
We live a world with knowledge of the future markets has less than one significant figure. And people will still and always demand answers to three significant digits.
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by KlangFool »

nitro4214 wrote:

You are right about the importance of networking which I admit I haven't done a good job at. Nobody sat me down and explained any of this career stuff to me when I started out (i.e. you only get decent raises by jumping ship, importance of networking, actively managing ones career, etc).
nitro4214,

Here we go again.

What is the most popular job hunting book? Do you know? Did you read the book? Why do I know?

Nobody tells me too. I did my own research and read a lot of books because it matters to me. I want to take control of my life and my career.

What Color Is Your Parachute? 2016: A Practical Manual for Job-Hunters and Career-Changers Paperback – August 11, 2015
by Richard N. Bolles
https://www.amazon.com/What-Color-Your- ... 8&qid=&sr=

<<Nobody sat me down and explained any of this career stuff to me when I started out >>

1) This is your life and your career. Why should anyone care more about this than you? Did you ask?

2) On the other hand, did you teach/tell anyone that starting out?

You need to change your attitude.

KlangFool
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by ramsfan »

My two cents...

First, good of you to post this personal situation here, there are many experienced folks who can help, but some of the feedback might "sting" at first, don't dismiss it. The medicine might not taste good, but it will help you get better!

I don't read anything from your description of the situation that indicates to me any signs they are trying to push you out. None.

What I read is a current job, title, work situation that is no longer a fit for you, or at least it seems that way. Your highest priority should be working on the next steps in your career.

Here is what I have experienced...

- when I join a new company, or a new employee joins ours, there is a current reason we brought that person on, and a current reason that person joined. This creates a mutual excitement. This leads to interesting work, accolodates, etc.... over time, and especially over 7+ years like you, the role changes, the company changes, management changes, and the person changes. Human nature allows us to hold on to a past perception too long, so people tend to get frustrated measuring the current situation to the old one. The old one is GONE, so you are making yourself miserable, and that comes through in your attitude. Not judging you, I have been there myself a few times.

Looking around at new opportunities will help you. In fact, you may realize your own situation isn't al that bad, learn to appreciate it more, and get happier (which will help you in interviewing for other positions). This may also lead you to have more open and meaningful dialogue with your company, in your quest to decide whether you should stay or go.

Some things to consider....

- if there is a super premium next job you are interested in, make SURE you get some practice interviews under your belt. You are currently somewhat caught up in your current situation, and the negativity associated with it, and that may hurt your ability to interview well in other opportunities.
- you say you are paid below market, but it is fine because you work in a low cost of living area..... I am a bit confused by this. Even if you live in a low cost of living area, it makes no sense to be content being paid below market. Now, if you are comparing your salary in South Dakota, to the nationwide average, then you are not looking at the same market in comparison, which is a mistake. If you are in South Dakota and making 15% less than your peers in South Dakota, not sure why this would be OK. I suggest you re0evaluated this.

I am a little worried you might be hurting yourself more than you know with the building resentment. This is why getting out and looking at other opportunities is an important next step.

Good luck!
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by nitro4214 »

Rodc wrote:You need to make some serious readjustments of what you are doing to either align better with this company, learn new skills that make you more marketable, or far better than staying with this company - get a new job that will allow you to grow your skills.

Let's say I better align with this company. They are pushing me to be more of a "support person" and less of a heads down coder. More fire fighting (dealing with end users) and problem resolution (working with vendors, corporate, etc to get stuff done). I'm fully capable of any of those roles. In fact, they bounce me back and forth between those roles. I'm doing a little bit of everything but not a whole lot of any one thing anymore. We used to have more IT support people. As they downsized the department over the years, more and more of that work was thrown into my lap.

It isn't like I don't have any skills. I can take a project from beginning to end which usually takes a number of DIFFERENT people in other groups. Instead of having a separate Business Analyst, Architect, Programmer, Technical Writer, DBA, and Trainer....I do all of that. That's why I was hired in the first place. Corporate has different people in each of those positions and the management at the branch wanted to bypass all of the bureaucratic red tape. They wanted something done locally.

We had a database issue a few weeks back that I could have fixed in about two minutes if I had access to the server related to this vendor-based system. Instead, we had a two hour conference call on a weekend involving a dozen people so that someone overseas can fix a problem that should have been prevented to begin with.

I understand that the company has gone into a new direction and moving on would be a better option. I have been looking around a bit. Most companies look for specialists, they want someone who is an expert Business Analyst or an expert Programmer (demanding that you meet all of their requirements) or an expert DBA. I don't have the opportunity at this company to focus on one thing most of the time. That's what is making it difficult to obtain a new position.
Rodc wrote:I strongly suggest you open up to relocating.
I will take that under consideration.
Rodc wrote:I have seen this time and time again - you simply cannot coast along hoping things will get better for 20 years. You need to take charge of your career.
I'm debating which direction to go. They say do what you love. It doesn't matter what you love if the market doesn't value your skillset. The question I ask is what's marketable? I keep hearing that technical skills are seen as lower level these days due to all of the outsourcing that is going on. The "Systems Analysts" are ranked higher than programmers which is increasingly seen as an entry level job and programming an entry level tasks. Apparently my current management sees it the same way as they seem to be steering me away from coding. How many jobs ads do you see where they are looking for 15+ years of programming experience? I often see 1-3 or 5-10, rarely ever see 15+.
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by nitro4214 »

KlangFool wrote:Here we go again.

What is the most popular job hunting book? Do you know? Did you read the book? Why do I know?

Nobody tells me too. I did my own research and read a lot of books because it matters to me. I want to take control of my life and my career.

What Color Is Your Parachute? 2016: A Practical Manual for Job-Hunters and Career-Changers Paperback – August 11, 2015
by Richard N. Bolles
https://www.amazon.com/What-Color-Your- ... 8&qid=&sr=
Heh. I read this book about 10 years ago. I seemed to be on the right career path at the time. Perhaps I need to read it again.

I found that what I loved the most isn't all that marketable. I'm more about
KlangFool wrote:1) This is your life and your career. Why should anyone care more about this than you? Did you ask?

2) On the other hand, did you teach/tell anyone that starting out?
1) I'm talking about when I first started my career. I live in more of a blue collar area. You're not going to get a lot of advice on succeeding in a professional field when you don't really come into contact with too many people that have succeeded in a professional field. You're going to get advice like "work hard", which is good advice but is not enough. I've been told by some people that I'm "lucky" to be at the same job for so long.

2) You have to practice it before you preach it. :)
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by Mudpuppy »

nitro4214 wrote:
Mudpuppy wrote:You need to network with people to find out if that list of requirements is really set in stone or if it's just intended to scare people off. Unless the ad has been designed with hiring a particular person in mind, job ads are often looking for a "purple squirrel", but they'll settle for someone who is just a squirrel, proverbially speaking. Knowing people at the company through professional societies or other networking is also a way to get them to be more flexible in their requirements or to be willing to take a chance by giving you some time to learn.
I live in a small town and work in a medium sized town. There are no networking events, professional societies, or the like. Maybe take a day off and go to the nearest city?
Then you strongly need to reconsider your lack of desire to relocate, which caused you to pass on the job offer you had a few months ago. Unless there extenuating circumstances that tie you to that location (significant other has a job that would be hard to relocate, family needing care nearby, underwater on a mortgage, etc.), you might need to move, both physically and proverbially out of your comfort zone, in order to land a better job with better career prospects.
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Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by nitro4214 »

ramsfan wrote:I don't read anything from your description of the situation that indicates to me any signs they are trying to push you out. None.
Maybe I am being a little bit too paranoid. I had a couple of conversations with others who know of the situation and they were advising me to be careful and not to show the new guy too much or he could end up replacing me. They worked in the trades (in a different field) and have experienced that phenomenon.
ramsfan wrote:What I read is a current job, title, work situation that is no longer a fit for you, or at least it seems that way. Your highest priority should be working on the next steps in your career.

- when I join a new company, or a new employee joins ours, there is a current reason we brought that person on, and a current reason that person joined. This creates a mutual excitement. This leads to interesting work, accolodates, etc.... over time, and especially over 7+ years like you, the role changes, the company changes, management changes, and the person changes. Human nature allows us to hold on to a past perception too long, so people tend to get frustrated measuring the current situation to the old one. The old one is GONE, so you are making yourself miserable, and that comes through in your attitude. Not judging you, I have been there myself a few times.
That makes sense. A lot of things have changed. Some for the better, some for the worst. There are a different set of expectations now and the current management team wasn't around years ago. In the first few years, spent most of my time doing the work that I enjoyed most and was good at (software, databases, etc). Over time, more and more general IT stuff was thrown onto my plate....and less and less software/database stuff. Now it's considered "normal" that I am heavily involved in IT support. It happened over time (i.e. the boiling frog thing).
ramsfan wrote: Looking around at new opportunities will help you. In fact, you may realize your own situation isn't al that bad, learn to appreciate it more, and get happier (which will help you in interviewing for other positions).
Yes there are definitely worse places to work. I have had that feeling after interviewing someone and then appreciate the current job more.
ramsfan wrote:- if there is a super premium next job you are interested in, make SURE you get some practice interviews under your belt. You are currently somewhat caught up in your current situation, and the negativity associated with it, and that may hurt your ability to interview well in other opportunities.
I have been on a number of interviews. Starting to get better at it but there is room for improvement.
ramsfan wrote:- you say you are paid below market, but it is fine because you work in a low cost of living area..... I am a bit confused by this. Even if you live in a low cost of living area, it makes no sense to be content being paid below market. Now, if you are comparing your salary in South Dakota, to the nationwide average, then you are not looking at the same market in comparison, which is a mistake. If you are in South Dakota and making 15% less than your peers in South Dakota, not sure why this would be OK. I suggest you re0evaluated this.
I'd say I'm probably 15-20% below market. My income was progressively increasing until after the 2008 recession. Since then, it's been pretty stagnant until the last couple of years. I think last year was only the second time I received a raise for 2 or more consecutive years since 2008.
Topic Author
nitro4214
Posts: 319
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:42 am

Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by nitro4214 »

Mudpuppy wrote:Then you strongly need to reconsider your lack of desire to relocate, which caused you to pass on the job offer you had a few months ago. Unless there extenuating circumstances that tie you to that location (significant other has a job that would be hard to relocate, family needing care nearby, underwater on a mortgage, etc.), you might need to move, both physically and proverbially out of your comfort zone, in order to land a better job with better career prospects.
I've been looking locally and have had a few interviews over the past year or so, but I was not the right match. For example, I interviewed at a university for a DBA position. I'm a SQL Server guy and they are an Oracle shop. I interviewed at another place looking for a DBA. They wanted someone with Data Warehousing experience. I don't have that.

I have some interests in the Data Science area. Thought about going this route but don't have opportunity at my current position to gain experience. I've been told that a Masters degree in that area is a waste of time, and that this area is becoming over saturated.

There are few software development or even database administration opportunities in the area. Most of the jobs I see around here are entry level (i.e. PC tech) positions or network administration jobs where you are on call 24/7.

I guess I will have to relocate if I want to stay on the software development/database path, eh? It's either: 1) relocate, 2) be contact working in IT support positions, or 3) Stay in my current job/area and wait for something that may never materialize, 4) Stick with the current company until a possible downsizing down the line and not be able to find a comparable or better position afterwards.

I could possibly redirect my current position into more of a Business Analyst/Project Manager role. Not sure I want to abandon my technical skills, however. I've been told that once you stop being technical, it's difficult to go back.
KlangFool
Posts: 19653
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Does it sound like my employer trying to push me out?

Post by KlangFool »

nitro4214 wrote:
I have some interests in the Data Science area. Thought about going this route but don't have opportunity at my current position to gain experience. I've been told that a Masters degree in that area is a waste of time, and that this area is becoming over saturated.
nitro4214,

https://www.coursera.org/specialization ... ta-science

What is there to stop you from signing up classes and get certified by coursera and EDx?

KlangFool
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