Complicated Estate/Trust Questions

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FoolStreet
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Complicated Estate/Trust Questions

Post by FoolStreet » Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:12 am

Have you ever seen situations in which someone is not able to manage their finances and asks a related party to take over their house during retirement, refinance in their name and make payments in perpetuity and take on room-rentals to make the monthly mortgage payment? After many years of staying in the home, the original owner dies and now the family has to decide what to do with the house. The current owner is one of the heirs. Is it better to do an even split between the rest of the heirs? Or should the owning party get more? and if so, how much more? If it was your relative, what would you think is appropriate?

Once the % split is finalized, how should that $ be disbursed? (think 10s of thousands). Should a basic trust be written with $ depositied in a Vanguard account under the heirs names to protect against creditors? Or should cash be disbursed with no question.

Carefreeap
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Re: Complicated Estate/Trust Questions

Post by Carefreeap » Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:58 pm

I find it hard to believe that an heir was able to refinance a house without also being a co-owner of some kind.

The remaining heirs need to look at what kind of contribution the occupying heir gave vs the benefits. For example, who was paying the taxes, insurance, and upkeep? Where there other services provided to the original owner such as transport, care giving, et cetera.

On the plus side of the equation what was the prevailing room rate vs what the occupying heir was actually paying? Were there other benefits such as a tax deduction, free childcare, and so on?

What's the net equity to be divided and how many total heirs?

NotWhoYouThink
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Re: Complicated Estate/Trust Questions

Post by NotWhoYouThink » Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:20 pm

What does the will say?

Who is the executor?

How much money is involved? What is the house worth, what is the mortgage balance?

FoolStreet
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Re: Complicated Estate/Trust Questions

Post by FoolStreet » Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:32 pm

NotWhoYouThink wrote:What does the will say?

Who is the executor?

How much money is involved? What is the house worth, what is the mortgage balance?
The will said split 3-ways (3 heirs) even. The current owner is the executor was for all practical purposes. 4-500k, less the value of the remaining mortgage(~100k), net about 350k. The house is not in the will because it was sold to the current owner /heir years ago.

FoolStreet
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Re: Complicated Estate/Trust Questions

Post by FoolStreet » Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:50 pm

Carefreeap wrote:I find it hard to believe that an heir was able to refinance a house without also being a co-owner of some kind.

The remaining heirs need to look at what kind of contribution the occupying heir gave vs the benefits. For example, who was paying the taxes, insurance, and upkeep? Where there other services provided to the original owner such as transport, care giving, et cetera.

On the plus side of the equation what was the prevailing room rate vs what the occupying heir was actually paying? Were there other benefits such as a tax deduction, free childcare, and so on?

What's the net equity to be divided and how many total heirs?
The owning heir was not an occupant. The house was sold to allow the owning heir to refi in their name. The owning heir paid only significant expenses, such as property taxes, home insurance and big ticket repairs, like a/c repair or plumbing, but not day-to-day utilities or handyman style repairs. Rental room mates (to 3rd parties) were priced at market or slightly below to encourage ease of relationship and trying to meet the monthly payment.

Heir #2 provided late care such as driving to dr appointments and emergency support. This was not an insignificant effort and commitment of time away from Heir #2's job. I am sure heir #3 would have done the same if they lived close.

3 heirs. Tax deductions (rental losses) were carried forward and will presumably counter any capital gains at the time of sale. There are out of pocket expenses that had accumulated, so the heir/owner would like these recovered, before coming up with a net number. Heir/owner would like to subtract any remaining cap gains taxes before coming up with a net. Gross equity could be 300k. At question is fair split on the net number?

Carefreeap
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Re: Complicated Estate/Trust Questions

Post by Carefreeap » Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:02 am

Now I'm really confused.

Title is not in the deceased's name but the rest of the family feels they are entitled to a share?

NotWhoYouThink
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Re: Complicated Estate/Trust Questions

Post by NotWhoYouThink » Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:42 am

Agree with the confusion. If the deceased did not own the house, then the will does not cover the house. That transaction was made long ago. If there was no more property to deal with, then no one inherits anything, except perhaps the household contents - old furniture and linens and crock pots.

FoolStreet
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Re: Complicated Estate/Trust Questions

Post by FoolStreet » Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:48 pm

NotWhoYouThink wrote:Agree with the confusion. If the deceased did not own the house, then the will does not cover the house. That transaction was made long ago. If there was no more property to deal with, then no one inherits anything, except perhaps the household contents - old furniture and linens and crock pots.

Hmm. Okay. If you were a sibling/heir how would you feel. The concern is the long-term relationships.

dailybagel
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Re: Complicated Estate/Trust Questions

Post by dailybagel » Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:24 pm

The owning heir was not an occupant. The house was sold to allow the owning heir to refi in their name. The owning heir paid only significant expenses, such as property taxes, home insurance and big ticket repairs, like a/c repair or plumbing, but not day-to-day utilities or handyman style repairs. Rental room mates (to 3rd parties) were priced at market or slightly below to encourage ease of relationship and trying to meet the monthly payment.
If the "owning heir" paid market value, then the other heirs should get nothing: the monetary value of the house was already transferred to the decedent, and any remaining value (e.g. Cash in a bank account) is already in the estate.

If the transaction did not happen at market value, can you provide the details of that transaction? Was the property transferred from the original owner TO the "owning heir", or was it from the original owner TO himself/herself and the owning heir.

Are there assets in the estate besides this property (which may not even be in the estate, the original posts don't have enough information)?

Did the "owning heir" contribute money to make mortgage payments? Or conversely, did the owning heir charge rent to the decedent, or provide rent-free housing to this person?

littlebird
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Re: Complicated Estate/Trust Questions

Post by littlebird » Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:33 pm

This sounds to me like the deceased retained what's called a "life estate", allowing him to remain in the house during his lifetime, while transferring the ownership of the house to the person you're calling the "owning heir". Is this what the owning heir thinks it is? Does s/he have the documents/deeds that explain the transaction?

If that is indeed the case, there is nothing to divide now, unless the "owning heir" offers to do so.

IF I understood this correctly.

Carefreeap
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Re: Complicated Estate/Trust Questions

Post by Carefreeap » Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:08 pm

FoolStreet wrote:
NotWhoYouThink wrote:Agree with the confusion. If the deceased did not own the house, then the will does not cover the house. That transaction was made long ago. If there was no more property to deal with, then no one inherits anything, except perhaps the household contents - old furniture and linens and crock pots.

Hmm. Okay. If you were a sibling/heir how would you feel. The concern is the long-term relationships.
And if you were the so-called " owning heir" how would YOU feel? You're asked to step up to the plate to support parent, risk your money, your credit, your time, your liability and your sibs think they are entitled to a piece of that?

If the "owning heir" is VOLUNTEERING to share and is looking for an equitable distribution than that's a really generous position to take. If that's the case than what s/he could do is to look at whether there was any equity in the property at the time s/he was asked to rescue the parent and share in that incremental increase.

As an example, let's say the "owning heir" stepped in 10 years ago and FMV was $250,000 and the existing loan was $125,000. Therefore there was approximately $125k of equity. 10 years later property is now worth $500k. Loan is now $100k balance. Assume sales costs are $50k. "Owing heir's" ownership was approximately 50% (S/he "bought" the property with the $125k loan"). Assume rents covered expenses (I suspect they didn't and the "owning heir" should document the out of pocket expenses). Property appreciated a net of $200k. First 50% or $100k belongs to "owning heir" and s/he shares the remaining 50% ($100k or $33,333 each) with the two other heirs. "Owning heir" will net about $183k and the two other heirs would get $33k each.

NotWhoYouThink
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Re: Complicated Estate/Trust Questions

Post by NotWhoYouThink » Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:38 pm

We really don't have enough information, because we don't know what the "owning heir" paid for the house, or how much was spent on taxes and repairs, or how much the home value appreciated compared to how that money would have done in a simple 3 fund portfolio, for example. It's possible that "owning heir" came out behind on this deal. Or it's possible that "owning heir" got a steal on the house and is making out like a bandit. Either way, since the deal was made years ago, the death of the parent has nothing to do with the ownership of the house, or who is legally entitled to the proceeds.

The first step in "fairness" and "feelings" might be for the "owning heir" to document what the costs and agreements were, and maybe the other two will start to be more thankful and expect less. What would have been the options if one of the siblings had not been able to take on this burden?

It is common for kids to go to some trouble to take care of parents. If you need to be paid for that, you should get paid for your time as you do the work, not expect more from the estate.

If there is no money in the parent's accounts, then there is really nothing to split.

FoolStreet
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Re: Complicated Estate/Trust Questions

Post by FoolStreet » Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:14 pm

Carefreeap wrote:
FoolStreet wrote:
NotWhoYouThink wrote:Agree with the confusion. If the deceased did not own the house, then the will does not cover the house. That transaction was made long ago. If there was no more property to deal with, then no one inherits anything, except perhaps the household contents - old furniture and linens and crock pots.

Hmm. Okay. If you were a sibling/heir how would you feel. The concern is the long-term relationships.
And if you were the so-called " owning heir" how would YOU feel? You're asked to step up to the plate to support parent, risk your money, your credit, your time, your liability and your sibs think they are entitled to a piece of that?

If the "owning heir" is VOLUNTEERING to share and is looking for an equitable distribution than that's a really generous position to take. If that's the case than what s/he could do is to look at whether there was any equity in the property at the time s/he was asked to rescue the parent and share in that incremental increase.

As an example, let's say the "owning heir" stepped in 10 years ago and FMV was $250,000 and the existing loan was $125,000. Therefore there was approximately $125k of equity. 10 years later property is now worth $500k. Loan is now $100k balance. Assume sales costs are $50k. "Owing heir's" ownership was approximately 50% (S/he "bought" the property with the $125k loan"). Assume rents covered expenses (I suspect they didn't and the "owning heir" should document the out of pocket expenses). Property appreciated a net of $200k. First 50% or $100k belongs to "owning heir" and s/he shares the remaining 50% ($100k or $33,333 each) with the two other heirs. "Owning heir" will net about $183k and the two other heirs would get $33k each.
Your numbers are very close. I see what you are doing with the 50% buy-in model. Readonable, but now I am trying to think through the conversation.

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Re: Complicated Estate/Trust Questions

Post by FoolStreet » Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:19 pm

NotWhoYouThink wrote:We really don't have enough information, because we don't know what the "owning heir" paid for the house, or how much was spent on taxes and repairs, or how much the home value appreciated compared to how that money would have done in a simple 3 fund portfolio, for example. It's possible that "owning heir" came out behind on this deal. Or it's possible that "owning heir" got a steal on the house and is making out like a bandit. Either way, since the deal was made years ago, the death of the parent has nothing to do with the ownership of the house, or who is legally entitled to the proceeds.

The first step in "fairness" and "feelings" might be for the "owning heir" to document what the costs and agreements were, and maybe the other two will start to be more thankful and expect less. What would have been the options if one of the siblings had not been able to take on this burden?

It is common for kids to go to some trouble to take care of parents. If you need to be paid for that, you should get paid for your time as you do the work, not expect more from the estate.

If there is no money in the parent's accounts, then there is really nothing to split.
Some people prefer more data, some might want to just know the bottom line. I would like to think a conversation with details mapped out will help. (To answer your question, if the owner/heir had not stepped in the home wiuld be foreclosed and there would be nothing.)

I am interested in other thoughts about how the conversation and emotions would play out. Would the extended family think that the owner/heir is only interested in the family "for the money?" And not trust that heir in the future when dealing with other family business matters that might come up?

Carefreeap
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Re: Complicated Estate/Trust Questions

Post by Carefreeap » Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:20 pm

NotWhoYouThink wrote:We really don't have enough information, because we don't know what the "owning heir" paid for the house, or how much was spent on taxes and repairs, or how much the home value appreciated compared to how that money would have done in a simple 3 fund portfolio, for example. It's possible that "owning heir" came out behind on this deal. Or it's possible that "owning heir" got a steal on the house and is making out like a bandit. Either way, since the deal was made years ago, the death of the parent has nothing to do with the ownership of the house, or who is legally entitled to the proceeds.

The first step in "fairness" and "feelings" might be for the "owning heir" to document what the costs and agreements were, and maybe the other two will start to be more thankful and expect less. What would have been the options if one of the siblings had not been able to take on this burden?

It is common for kids to go to some trouble to take care of parents. If you need to be paid for that, you should get paid for your time as you do the work, not expect more from the estate.

If there is no money in the parent's accounts, then there is really nothing to split.
You make an excellent point. Imagine how the scenario would be if the property was purchased 9 years ago at the height of some markets and is just now worth what the "Owning Heir" paid. Would the other heirs be stepping up to the plate to reimburse him/her for the net loss and opportunity costs? Extremely unlikely.

My brother "purchased" the family home from my parents in 1996 for around $350,000. It was approximately what was owed against the property which they had purchased in 1963 and had refinanced multiple times. Since he inherited their same financial ineptitude he wound up losing it in foreclosure in 2009. I think he owed close to $800k. Property taxes thanks to Prop 13 and parent to child transfers were $700/yr. Talk about lost opportunities! :oops:

When my mom died in 2008 her condo was upside down by about $300k. After months of negotiating with her lenders I was finally able to negotiate a short sale of the property from her estate to my husband and me. I took over payments on a $452k loan and property was appraised by the lenders appraiser at $487k. Property values have bounced back somewhat and the condo is now worth about $700k. We are planning to sell it this Spring. There's probably about $300k net equity between appreciation and loan pay-down. It will not surprise me one bit if my brother has his hand out wanting a piece of the profit. And the answer will be no way. It was my time and effort to negotiate the deal with her lenders, pay all the bills, deal with the tenant nonsense including an eviction, pay for capital repairs and deal with issues with the HOA.

Funny how the sibs are always available for the upside but not available for the downside. :annoyed

Carefreeap
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Re: Complicated Estate/Trust Questions

Post by Carefreeap » Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:28 pm

FoolStreet wrote:
NotWhoYouThink wrote:We really don't have enough information, because we don't know what the "owning heir" paid for the house, or how much was spent on taxes and repairs, or how much the home value appreciated compared to how that money would have done in a simple 3 fund portfolio, for example. It's possible that "owning heir" came out behind on this deal. Or it's possible that "owning heir" got a steal on the house and is making out like a bandit. Either way, since the deal was made years ago, the death of the parent has nothing to do with the ownership of the house, or who is legally entitled to the proceeds.

The first step in "fairness" and "feelings" might be for the "owning heir" to document what the costs and agreements were, and maybe the other two will start to be more thankful and expect less. What would have been the options if one of the siblings had not been able to take on this burden?

It is common for kids to go to some trouble to take care of parents. If you need to be paid for that, you should get paid for your time as you do the work, not expect more from the estate.

If there is no money in the parent's accounts, then there is really nothing to split.
Some people prefer more data, some might want to just know the bottom line. I would like to think a conversation with details mapped out will help. (To answer your question, if the owner/heir had not stepped in the home wiuld be foreclosed and there would be nothing.)

I am interested in other thoughts about how the conversation and emotions would play out. Would the extended family think that the owner/heir is only interested in the family "for the money?" And not trust that heir in the future when dealing with other family business matters that might come up?
A conversation about expectations should have happened BEFORE the "owner heir" stepped in. And a discussion of alternative housing options should have also been explored.

In my prior example, my parents had divorced and my Dad was probably making about $25k in income. No way could he afford the $350k debt he and my mother had racked up. He had a scheme that he could rent out four of the bedrooms to single guys who didn't smoke, drink or would have girls over. And of course he'd be able to get top dollar for those rooms. :confused

I watched this drama play out from 500 miles away. I am so glad I didn't get caught up in that trainwreck. And FWIW my father and brother haven't spoken in over 5 years, each believing they were ripped off by the other. :oops:

NotWhoYouThink
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Re: Complicated Estate/Trust Questions

Post by NotWhoYouThink » Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:11 pm

If people don't have any more of the story than what OP has posted, their opinions of the "owner/heir" will mostly be shaped by what they think of him in the first place. If they think he is caring and generous and honest, they will be happy to do business with him and appreciate the help he provided to his parents. If they think he is greedy and scheming, they won't want to deal with him. (I assume "him" for convenience, could be a her.)

There are always 2 parts to a reputation - the facts and the narrative. I have no more idea of the facts of this situation than I did after the first post, and since I have no prior opinion of or experience with the "owner/heir" I can't guess what others will think. Why would anyone care?

FoolStreet
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Re: Complicated Estate/Trust Questions

Post by FoolStreet » Sun Jan 01, 2017 4:32 pm

NotWhoYouThink wrote:If people don't have any more of the story than what OP has posted, their opinions of the "owner/heir" will mostly be shaped by what they think of him in the first place. If they think he is caring and generous and honest, they will be happy to do business with him and appreciate the help he provided to his parents. If they think he is greedy and scheming, they won't want to deal with him. (I assume "him" for convenience, could be a her.)

There are always 2 parts to a reputation - the facts and the narrative. I have no more idea of the facts of this situation than I did after the first post, and since I have no prior opinion of or experience with the "owner/heir" I can't guess what others will think. Why would anyone care?
What other info can I provide? My goal was to get 3rd party objective advice. I was looking for advice on interpersonal dynamics and whether the owner/heir should give money as part of a lightweight trust to protect against creditors.

Carefreeap
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Re: Complicated Estate/Trust Questions

Post by Carefreeap » Sun Jan 01, 2017 5:31 pm

FoolStreet wrote:
NotWhoYouThink wrote:If people don't have any more of the story than what OP has posted, their opinions of the "owner/heir" will mostly be shaped by what they think of him in the first place. If they think he is caring and generous and honest, they will be happy to do business with him and appreciate the help he provided to his parents. If they think he is greedy and scheming, they won't want to deal with him. (I assume "him" for convenience, could be a her.)

There are always 2 parts to a reputation - the facts and the narrative. I have no more idea of the facts of this situation than I did after the first post, and since I have no prior opinion of or experience with the "owner/heir" I can't guess what others will think. Why would anyone care?
What other info can I provide? My goal was to get 3rd party objective advice. I was looking for advice on interpersonal dynamics and whether the owner/heir should give money as part of a lightweight trust to protect against creditors.
1. It would be helpful to know when the deed transfer happened.
2. What is your role in the dynamic? Are you one of the heirs looking for a share of the house proceeds?

FoolStreet
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Re: Complicated Estate/Trust Questions

Post by FoolStreet » Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:05 pm

Carefreeap wrote:
FoolStreet wrote:
NotWhoYouThink wrote:If people don't have any more of the story than what OP has posted, their opinions of the "owner/heir" will mostly be shaped by what they think of him in the first place. If they think he is caring and generous and honest, they will be happy to do business with him and appreciate the help he provided to his parents. If they think he is greedy and scheming, they won't want to deal with him. (I assume "him" for convenience, could be a her.)

There are always 2 parts to a reputation - the facts and the narrative. I have no more idea of the facts of this situation than I did after the first post, and since I have no prior opinion of or experience with the "owner/heir" I can't guess what others will think. Why would anyone care?
What other info can I provide? My goal was to get 3rd party objective advice. I was looking for advice on interpersonal dynamics and whether the owner/heir should give money as part of a lightweight trust to protect against creditors.
1. It would be helpful to know when the deed transfer happened.
2. What is your role in the dynamic? Are you one of the heirs looking for a share of the house proceeds?
The house was sold 12+ years ago from the original owner to one of the heirs(me). It was difficult to get professional advice at the time because the original owner was under imminent foreclosure, so there were time pressures (one week before auction). The lawyer we consulted was conflicted with whether to protect the original owners interests or ours, who were taking the lifelong commitment/burden. At the time, one sibling was chafing at not being included as co owners, and did not like the lawyer's suggested 70% share to the new owner/heir. We did not want to lose equity and a family home at foreclosure, but weren't motivated by profit. [Maybe not for profit, more so than non-profit(?)]. Ultimately, we needed flexibility to take care of the asset for the parent as we saw fit over the long term. If it was a short-term arrangement, then an even Steven split amongst siblings was fine. If it turned into a long-term arrangement, then a tilted split was more appropriate. Alcoholism and financial ineptitude meant the parent would not be the controlling owner any longer. A pure sale transaction was simplest to execute, with splits left open-ended.

So, fast forward, the parent has passed away and we need to have our final discussion to close out with the sibling and are dreading a guilt trip from one sibling. Furthermore, the parent was divorced many many years ago. While the divorcee (since remarried) is not at all involved, I worry that their opinions will be tainted negatively. Will the living divorced parent feel like they can trust us? 20 years from now they may need help in their old age. Will they respect what we did and have faith that we will take care of them in their age, or will they think we are in it for the money and not allow us to help them? I don't know if they will need our help as they age, and we are not in a position to need any inheritance from them, but I would hate for this family issue become a wedge between our siblings, us and them. I worry about this most of all.

Last, the other siblings might be served by getting their share via a trust to protect against creditors, but maybe that is not our concern. Maybe we just give them their share up to the gift tax exclusion and not worry about it?

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Re: Complicated Estate/Trust Questions

Post by Carefreeap » Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:33 pm

Interesting. Part of me wondered if you were the owner heir, especially with the lifetime commitment comment.

Did you actually pay anything for the house?

Is the guilt tripping sib the one who didn't do anything?

I think you can use my earlier post as a guideline and plug in your own numbers and adjust accordingly. Legally I don't think you owe your siblings anything especially since it was 12 years ago with an open-end date to support. Your parent was darn lucky you were willing to step in at the last minute. Obviously if they were that far along in the foreclosure process it sounds like they would have probably lost all of the equity so that there would be nothing to fight over. The other thing to remind your siblings is that the house price could have gone the other way; that is the price could have gone down and you and your good credit might have been affected or you might have had to contribute money to pay off an upside down loan. As I mentioned in an earlier post I doubt your siblings would have been willing to contribute to make you whole. They never see the math work that way.

My parents were alcoholics too and I feel your pain. I could have easily been in your situation. If my mother hadn't died so quickly her condo would have gone into foreclosure while she was dying. I'm grateful I didn't have to deal with that at the same time I was doing her caregiving. And FWIW I lived in a different state while my bro lived about 5 miles away. His life was such a trainwreck there's no way he could caregive for her.

If you do choose to do a distribution, be prepared for the guilt-tripping sib to come back for more. After wringing out $20k for my brother out of an upside estate he came back to me within 6 months wanting a personal loan. I have to thank my husband for shutting that down immediately. My husband was absolutely right. Had I given in the "loans" demands would have never stopped.

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Re: Complicated Estate/Trust Questions

Post by FoolStreet » Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:26 pm

Carefreeap wrote:Interesting. Part of me wondered if you were the owner heir, especially with the lifetime commitment comment.

Did you actually pay anything for the house?

Is the guilt tripping sib the one who didn't do anything?

I think you can use my earlier post as a guideline and plug in your own numbers and adjust accordingly. Legally I don't think you owe your siblings anything especially since it was 12 years ago with an open-end date to support. Your parent was darn lucky you were willing to step in at the last minute. Obviously if they were that far along in the foreclosure process it sounds like they would have probably lost all of the equity so that there would be nothing to fight over. The other thing to remind your siblings is that the house price could have gone the other way; that is the price could have gone down and you and your good credit might have been affected or you might have had to contribute money to pay off an upside down loan. As I mentioned in an earlier post I doubt your siblings would have been willing to contribute to make you whole. They never see the math work that way.

My parents were alcoholics too and I feel your pain. I could have easily been in your situation. If my mother hadn't died so quickly her condo would have gone into foreclosure while she was dying. I'm grateful I didn't have to deal with that at the same time I was doing her caregiving. And FWIW I lived in a different state while my bro lived about 5 miles away. His life was such a trainwreck there's no way he could caregive for her.

If you do choose to do a distribution, be prepared for the guilt-tripping sib to come back for more. After wringing out $20k for my brother out of an upside estate he came back to me within 6 months wanting a personal loan. I have to thank my husband for shutting that down immediately. My husband was absolutely right. Had I given in the "loans" demands would have never stopped.
I made interim payments and arrears between the foreclosure notice and the refinance going through. That amounted to approximately 5% of the documented sales price. I did take that money back cash out during the refi to make us whole. We did spend money each month on gaps between income and expenses pretty consistently after that.

I guess i am sensitive about guilt because I am sensitive overall. One sib clearly stated they were out of their league when this went down. The other probably would have been on title as co-owners. I didnt feel comfortable taking 100% responsibility with being only part-owners and not having 100% authority. I had doubts about the other sibling's financial situation and i am not sure how the lender wiuld have structured a loan with two prties in title. I didnt want to go there.

Thank you for sharing your story. It helps us with perspective.

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Re: Complicated Estate/Trust Questions

Post by Carefreeap » Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:22 pm

Would that one sib actually qualify?

In my case my brother is great with all kinds of schemes. At the time of my mother's illness his FICO was less then 500 since he had been in some state of foreclosure ever since he bought the family home 10 years before from my folks . I'm not kidding when I say I could see a notice of default recorded on the County website for every year he owned the house. No way in hell would I co-own property with him because you know who would get stuck picking up the pieces when things headed south. And there's always those times when things head south. But that was the tip of the iceberg. He had tax liens and the City had filed an injunction against him for illegally grading the backyard of his house for a swimming pool without getting permits. Settling my mother's estate took almost two years and for the first 8 months I was commuting from the Phoenix area to her home in San Diego. When I would head back home to AZ he and his family would stay at my mother's condo. He said it was because they missed my mom and felt closer to her there. The real reason was that his power had been shut off for non-payment therefore and they would stay so they could watch television. They would leave the place a pigsty. I retuned to her home to find urine all over the bathroom floor, chocolate spread over the exterior of the fridge and coke spilled on her couch and carpet.

You get over the guilt and it turns to a slow burn when you realize that they are just manipulating you. Much easier to talk big but do nothing to help.

ETA: And as far as a reputation with the remaining family members? In my case I'll get stuck cleaning up my father's estate. He's on poverty level Medicaid and has no assets, just a garage full of junk and a room full of old paperwork. He's cut my brother out of his will (like there's going to be something) which means I'll have the honor of paying for the dumpster to unload all that junk plus pay for his memorial service. Maybe his long time girlfriend will split it with me but I'm not counting on it.

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