Gave a guy a personal loan, now he's not paying me back...

simplesimon · Post by **simplesimon** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:14 pm

modal wrote:What was the rationale in giving this loan? I would of been like "dude pay me over paypal using your credit card" or "dude get a loan at your bank".

I would've been like "Dude, no."

chaz · Post by **chaz** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:15 pm

moxin, get your small claims court judgment - then turn it over to a collector who can trace his assets.

Good luck.

mickeyd · Post by **mickeyd** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:39 pm

Not a good friend though and I definately regret giving him the loan

Definitely not where you want, or need, to be.

This reminds me of a lesson that I learned as a freshman in college. I loaned a "friend" $10 for a "few days". It took me over a dozen conversations and until the middle of my sophomore year of asking for the repayment to claim my $10. The guy's usual response was "Gee, I only have a 20 on me. Maybe next week." I never had that kind of walking around money to make change, so I failed to collect. Finally I saved up $30 (6, $5 bills) and I was ready for the next meeting. I was able to meet the challenge within a week and I was glad to give him two $5 in exchange for the $20. It probably took me too long to come up with a simple solution, and I lost a friend in the process as we did not talk much after this.

I was 19 years old then. I am now 63. I have never lent cash to anyone since that day. A good life lesson.

Opponent Process · Post by **Opponent Process** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:42 pm

be careful, there are laws that prohibit harassing deadbeats. or I should say there are things you can and can't do legally.

and no friend is going to give out someone's contact info to a stranger.

moxin · Post by **moxin** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:57 pm

chaz wrote:moxin, get your small claims court judgment - then turn it over to a collector who can trace his assets.

Good luck.

I will, but cant get a judgment or even bring him to court without his new address.

chaz · Post by **chaz** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:05 pm

Check with the court clerk - in most states, you can serve by publishing a notice in a newspaper if the debtor hasn't left a forwarding address.

simplesimon · Post by **simplesimon** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:20 pm

mickeyd wrote:
Not a good friend though and I definately regret giving him the loan
Definitely not where you want, or need, to be.

This reminds me of a lesson that I learned as a freshman in college. I loaned a "friend" $10 for a "few days". It took me over a dozen conversations and until the middle of my sophomore year of asking for the repayment to claim my $10. The guy's usual response was "Gee, I only have a 20 on me. Maybe next week." I never had that kind of walking around money to make change, so I failed to collect. Finally I saved up $30 (6, $5 bills) and I was ready for the next meeting. I was able to meet the challenge within a week and I was glad to give him two $5 in exchange for the $20. It probably took me too long to come up with a simple solution, and I lost a friend in the process as we did not talk much after this.

I was 19 years old then. I am now 63. I have never lent cash to anyone since that day. A good life lesson.

Heh...it wasn't until halfway through I figured out, from the verbage, that this must've happened a long time ago.

For anybody that's curious...assuming 3% inflation a year, that's $56 today!

One of my stories is that while taking a trip to Las Vegas with some friends, my "friend" (really a friend's friend, who I actually knew owed most of my friends a good amount of money), asked to borrow $100 of my winnings from gambling for him to play with. I was hesitant but let him. Afterwards I tried getting it back and he would always say he had a check sitting on his desk ready to be mailed out. We don't talk anymore and I've made it my own rule after this not to lend out money family and friends as well.

Opponent Process · Post by **Opponent Process** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:29 pm

to quote Michael Lewis:

"Finance is one thing you should never engage in with the poor."

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... refer=home

Rob5TCP · Post by **Rob5TCP** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:36 pm

If you saw his ad in Craigslist - you should respond to it with a new gmail address - and then meet him - you might find out where he lives.
If the ad is recent, you can still send an email to it.

SoonerSunDevil · Post by **SoonerSunDevil** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:41 pm

Rob5TCP wrote:If you saw his ad in Craigslist - you should respond to it with a new gmail address - and then meet him - you might find out where he lives.
If the ad is recent, you can still send an email to it.

Yeah, this might not be a bad idea. Tell him that you'd like to meet in person to see what the car looks like, drives like, etc. At the very least, you should be able to serve him with papers.

I would caution you to be very careful if this is the route you choose to take. One never has any idea what another human will do if they feel threatened or attacked in a given situation, especially if they feel they've been ambushed.

Please keep us posted on what actually happens.

moxin · Post by **moxin** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:54 pm

Rob5TCP wrote:If you saw his ad in Craigslist - you should respond to it with a new gmail address - and then meet him - you might find out where he lives.
If the ad is recent, you can still send an email to it.

Ad only has the non-working phone #, no email address.

Ad was posted on June 9th.

CA-boggler · Post by **CA-boggler** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:18 pm

moxin wrote:I have a contract, that's notarized by a bank too.

Says the $ he owes me, the interest rate, etc.

Who wrote the contract? Did the borrower write it or did you use some example contract and modify it?

modal · Post by **modal** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:24 pm

Hire a big muscular actor dude to have a talk with him. :lol:

BigFoot48 · Post by **BigFoot48** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:36 pm

SoonerSunDevil wrote:Please keep us posted on what actually happens.

Yes, please do. It's like watching a train wreck, only in this case it's a very expensive life lesson.

gassert · Post by **gassert** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:05 pm

You should honestly not waste another minute or a single dollar on this. The time you spend trying to resolve will be worth nothing. THis case - if you even attempt to file would be thrown out. And even if the 100 to 1 odds of a judgement in your favor happens, you have no grounds to actually collect. And even if the 100 to 1 grounds to collect happens, you have another 100 to 1 odds of actually collectiing a portion, let alone full. Seriosuly - move on

actuaryinvestor · Post by **actuaryinvestor** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:30 pm

moxin wrote:Just google'ed his old phone #... he put the car for sale on craigslist the day after he made his 2nd payment.

Call him up and tell him you'd like to buy the car, but you are a little short on cash and could he lend you $4,500 at 10% interest?

--
Brian

financialguy · Post by **financialguy** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:23 pm

SpringMan wrote:Since you have good documentation, in the worst case scenario, I beleive you can write off the loss on your income tax. That is not much consolation.
Good luck,

Also, the other guy is required to report a loan he doesn't pay back as income. I bet he isn't going to do it, so I bet the IRS would be interested to know that.

gatorman · Post by **gatorman** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:24 pm

moxin wrote:
chaz wrote:moxin, get your small claims court judgment - then turn it over to a collector who can trace his assets.

Good luck.
I will, but cant get a judgment or even bring him to court without his new address.

Hire a skip tracer to find him. Its usually quite inexpensive. You may be able to include the amount you spent in your judgement.
gatorman

gatorman · Post by **gatorman** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:38 pm

moxin wrote:Just google'ed his old phone #... he put the car for sale on craigslist the day after he made his 2nd payment.

That is ok because its an unsecured loan, but shady still...

Says he only paid $1800 for the car, and thats what hes selling it for.

Where did my other $2700 go?

If he told you he was going to borrow the entire amount to buy a car and he only used a portion of the money to buy the car, that may be obtaining money by false pretenses, which is a crime in many jurisdictions. Have you tried reporting him to the Police? It is admittedly a long shot, but might work if you get the right officer. Make sure you get a copy of the ad before it disappears.
gatorman

linenfort · Post by **linenfort** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:19 pm

Good luck in small claims court. Just make sure you know all the rules
before you execute on the judgment.

I had to sue a contractor who didn't finish the work, and who had
already collected an advance. He didn't show up in court and while
I "won", I am worried about executing. As was previously stated on
page 1 of this thread, the sheriff will seize the assets of the person
you sue. Those assets are auctioned off at a sheriff's sale. The contractor
has plenty of assets, including three homes, but you have to find
assets in the same jurisdiction where you were ripped off, at least
in my state.

So, be careful before you collect.

gunn_show · Post by **gunn_show** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:45 am

Incredible thread / story

You loan a dude you barely know $4500. You don't know much about him, where he lives, address, phones, etc etc. Who do you know him through? Go to his best friend and have a talk. If that friend is a good friend of both of yours, he should help. If there is no such friend, then you really loaned money to a stranger, and take good notes on this life lesson. Chances are you will get a donut in return, aka zero. If someone owed me $4500 (theoretical, I would not be so dumb to ever do such a thing) I would be doing a hell of a lot more than send IMs and emails on myspace. Shoot man suck it up and call your mom and dad, maybe they will give you a couple bucks. Or maybe just a bop on the head.

moxin · Post by **moxin** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:58 am

tommy_gunn wrote:Incredible thread / story

You loan a dude you barely know $4500. You don't know much about him, where he lives, address, phones, etc etc. Who do you know him through? Go to his best friend and have a talk. If that friend is a good friend of both of yours, he should help. If there is no such friend, then you really loaned money to a stranger, and take good notes on this life lesson. Chances are you will get a donut in return, aka zero. If someone owed me $4500 (theoretical, I would not be so dumb to ever do such a thing) I would be doing a hell of a lot more than send IMs and emails on myspace. Shoot man suck it up and call your mom and dad, maybe they will give you a couple bucks. Or maybe just a bop on the head.

I did have his address+phone #...he changed it, I cant avoid that.

I should of gotten his social security # on the contract.

moxin · Post by **moxin** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:09 am

gatorman wrote:
moxin wrote:Just google'ed his old phone #... he put the car for sale on craigslist the day after he made his 2nd payment.

That is ok because its an unsecured loan, but shady still...

Says he only paid $1800 for the car, and thats what hes selling it for.

Where did my other $2700 go?
If he told you he was going to borrow the entire amount to buy a car and he only used a portion of the money to buy the car, that may be obtaining money by false pretenses, which is a crime in many jurisdictions. Have you tried reporting him to the Police? It is admittedly a long shot, but might work if you get the right officer. Make sure you get a copy of the ad before it disappears.
gatorman

He said it was for car, but the contract doesn't state anything about the car.

I used a premade contract from suze oreman's website. The unsecured promissory note.

DocHolliday · Post by **DocHolliday** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:39 am

Many of us have loaned money to "friends" only to get burned. Losing money and a friend seems to to one of those unpleasant memories that does not fade. Maybe your story will deter other folks from loaning money to friends and strangers.

If I were in Moxin's shoes, I would be trying every way possible to at least get some of my money back. Call the police. File in small claims court. Find him and bug him every week for the money. Trying to get things square will certainly feel better than giving up on the loss.

kyuss · Post by **kyuss** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:44 am

I have a contract, that's notarized by a bank too.

Did the Notary even read the contract?

Also, not to be overly dramatic, but if you don't know this guy too well, you might want to be careful about how you pursue this. A guy who will rip someone off of $4500 could be capable of plenty of other nasty things too.

Avo · Post by **Avo** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 10:36 am

kyuss wrote:Did the Notary even read the contract?

Notaries never read contracts. Their role is simply to verify the identities of the people signing.

samurai sam · Post by **samurai sam** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:02 am

Sad tale. I've always lived by the rule of never loaning what you can't afford to lose (with a smile). You could consider it a donation, he obviously needed the money more than you did, and you obliged him. There's a reason it's called "unsecured", you have have no recourse from a deadbeat. Stay out of the lending business, and you'll live a much longer and happier life. What you do from here should be what your personality demands, no one can make that choice for you, whatever it is. For some moving on is best, for others only exhausting every possible avenue will do. Good luck.

kyuss · Post by **kyuss** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:03 am

Notaries never read contracts. Their role is simply to verify the identities of the people signing.

My bad. For some reason I thought they were supposed to read it to make sure it wasn't overtly illegal or something.

Buffett_wannabe · Post by **Buffett_wannabe** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:07 am

Dude, where do we start...

You made an unsecured loan for thousands to a guy whose identity you don't even know.

You are now compounding the problem by asking people whose identity (and credentials) you don't even know what you should do about it.

Stop now. Go talk to a lawyer, or small claims court, or SOMEONE who can give you real help. Free advice is worth what you pay for it, or less if it misleads you into more mistakes.

That said, here's some free advice. If you have a license number, VIN, or anything about the car, the state DMV might release something about the selling party or dealer (assuming THAT transaction was not under the table). You could then see if the seller was more careful than you about establishing the identity of this fellow. You may need to get a lawyer and subpoena all this stuff.

Regards,
Craig B.

simplesimon · Post by **simplesimon** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:09 am

moxin wrote:He lives in my city, I've met him a few times.

Not a good friend though and I definately regret giving him the loan so he could buy a car.

Figured I'd make a cool 10%/yr for 3 yrs, but not turning out to be that way.

I've told him I'll sue him, and reminded him of his obligation to pay my lawyer fees. He does't seem phased.

I don't think he was in it for the gratification of helping someone out.

Index Fan · Post by **Index Fan** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:56 am

You made an unsecured loan for thousands to a guy whose identity you don't even know.

Believe me, you should be very leery of loaning money to people that you do know as well.

I've seen money come between friends and family much too often.

allsop · Post by **allsop** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:30 pm

Opponent Process wrote:to quote Michael Lewis:

"Finance is one thing you should never engage in with the poor."

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... refer=home

Who else are they going to rip off with impunity?

bluemarlin08 · Post by **bluemarlin08** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:18 pm

You will never get another cent, you can go to court, he can file BR prior to court date and any judgement is useless. You will live a happier life if you write this episode in your life off and never loan money again unless you can accept the fact you might never get anything back. Many of us have learned this lesson.

Clumsum · Post by **Clumsum** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:33 pm

I would not want to be a private banker. The damage may already be done.

philip · Post by **philip** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:33 pm

You can calculate monthly payment using

M = [ P * R * ( (1+R)^N ) ] / [ ( (1+R)^N ) - 1 ]

Where

M is monthly payment
P is principal ($4500)
R is monthly interest rate in decimal ( 10 / 1200)
N is number of months (36)

The monthly payment, M, has a portion of the principal . That portion
has to be reduced for subsequent interest calculations. That is the
mistake in your calculations.

wshang · Post by **wshang** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:34 pm

financialguy wrote:
SpringMan wrote:Since you have good documentation, in the worst case scenario, I beleive you can write off the loss on your income tax. That is not much consolation.
Good luck,
Also, the other guy is required to report a loan he doesn't pay back as income. I bet he isn't going to do it, so I bet the IRS would be interested to know that.

There are gems on this website. Here is one. Remember how the mobsters got nabbed in Chicago.

woof755 · Post by **woof755** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:50 pm

moxin wrote: I used a premade contract from suze oreman's website. The unsecured promissory note.

Suze Orman screws another investor.

JW-Retired · Post by **JW-Retired** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:20 pm

moxin wrote: I did have his address+phone #...he changed it, I cant avoid that.
I should of gotten his social security # on the contract.

It doesn't matter what numbers or legal phraseology are on this worthless loan contract. If he doesn't want to pay you back and has little or no assets, you can't make him. He is "judgement proof", as they say.

Do you mind telling us what you were thinking? Were you solicited for this loan( i.e. scammed), or did you actually volunteer for it?

What did you learn from this?
JW

ataloss · Post by **ataloss** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:55 am

I was 19 years old then. I am now 63. I have never lent cash to anyone since that day. A good life lesson.

mickeyd, a cheap life lesson at that and not loss of much a a friend either

gatorman · Post by **gatorman** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:07 am

Moxin- How old are you?
gatorman

chaz · Post by **chaz** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:18 am

moxin, have you started a small claims action to get a default judgment?

simplesimon · Post by **simplesimon** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:00 am

I got a nice bowl of popcorn with me while I read this thread.

mptfan · Post by **mptfan** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:12 pm

kyuss wrote:Notaries never read contracts. Their role is simply to verify the identities of the people signing.

My bad. For some reason I thought they were supposed to read it to make sure it wasn't overtly illegal or something.

:roll:

mptfan · Post by **mptfan** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:17 pm

"Neither a borrower nor a lender be;
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.
This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man."

William Shakespeare, from Hamlet.

moxin · Post by **moxin** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:36 pm

Ok I believe I found his parents address + phone #.

He doesnt live there though.

What should I do with this info?
Call his parents? They probably can't make him do the right thing...

ataloss · Post by **ataloss** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:42 pm

mptfan- does this demonstrate the value of education?

envgeo · Post by **envgeo** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:42 pm

SpringMan wrote:Since you have good documentation, in the worst case scenario, I beleive you can write off the loss on your income tax. That is not much consolation.
Good luck,

The forgiveness will show up on his tax return as income if you 1099 him. He will have a nice tax surprise at the end of the year. Of course, he will just borrow it from someone else :roll:

danwalk · Post by **danwalk** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:44 pm

moxin wrote:Ok I believe I found his parents address + phone #.

He doesnt live there though.

What should I do with this info?
Call his parents? They probably can't make him do the right thing...

Moxin, do not compound your multiple mistakes by turning into a stalker. Although you initially came here for advice, it seems as though you are choosing not to listen. Please take care of yourself.

danwalk

giacolet · Post by **giacolet** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:26 pm

Moxin,

Your numerous calls to third party persons are an outrage and constitute harrasment. You are probably in violation of the Fair Credit Reporting Act.

The law is a two-edged sword. You can't break the law in your collection endeavors even if you feel justified. He can seek sanctions and penalties.

You've cheated this man by miscalculating the interest. Your statements about the "contract," the poorly constructed Note, the misconceptions about the Notary... all would be embarassments to the Court.

The time to seek the advice of an Attorney is before you loan a person money. There is a consensus here among the posters that it's your time to back off. I suggest you heed the counsel of your peers.

Die Hard · Post by **Die Hard** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:36 pm

Since you have good documentation, in the worst case scenario, I beleive you can write off the loss on your income tax. That is not much consolation.

Acc to Suze Orman (love or hate), I happen to like her........
Anyway, she just had a special that covered this topic. She said that if you have a contract and the person's SS#, you can write amount off on taxes, then they have to pay tax on the loan as income. But you'll need their SS#. This is if all else fails.

I bet this person won't like it when they find out they have to pay tax to IRS

My daughter gave a "friend" a blank check "loan". This so-called friend was supposed to write the check out for $3,000, when the check cleared it was for $7,500!!! My daughter still has not gotten a dime back. And, this person won't answer a phone, nothing. There was no written contract.

Bottom line. Unless you can afford to give away money, don't loan money. Let the banks deal with the headaches.

Bogleheads.org

Gave a guy a personal loan, now he's not paying me back...

Re: Gave a guy a personal loan, now he's not paying me back.

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