Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
I've just received a job offer today that I'm very excited about and I'm accepting. The company I'm going to is a competitor of my current company, although I will not be doing the same type of work as I do for my current company.
I know my boss likes the work I do and I have a pretty good relationship with him. But I've only been with this company for a few months. I'm changing jobs because my current company has publically announced that it's exploring options to sell, so the long-term future of my position is uncertain at best.
My question is around giving 2 weeks notice, especially at this time of year. The company I'm going to wants me to start January 9th. If I give notice tomorrow, that would be 10 business days (excluding holidays and weekends) until my last day January 6th. Our company has 4 scheduled holidays for Christmas / New Years. I had already scheduled with my boss to take my 3 accrued vacation days next week to have the full week off (traveling out of state).
I'm a little concerned that by giving notice tomorrow, they might mess me around in regards to the holiday time. If I understand correctly, it's technically possible for an employer to just let their employee go and not pay them two weeks. However, I can hardly imagine that would happen. Most common scenario seems to be that if they don't want me to work, they would let me go with pay in lieu of notice. However, with all the holiday time between now and my last, would they pay me out for that?
Alternatively, should I wait to give notice until Thursday (my last day before the holidays). I don't really feel right about that, because it leaves very few days that I would be in the office if they do choose to keep me around.
FYI, I am salaried.
Thanks for any help. Pretty confused on how this would typically play out.
I know my boss likes the work I do and I have a pretty good relationship with him. But I've only been with this company for a few months. I'm changing jobs because my current company has publically announced that it's exploring options to sell, so the long-term future of my position is uncertain at best.
My question is around giving 2 weeks notice, especially at this time of year. The company I'm going to wants me to start January 9th. If I give notice tomorrow, that would be 10 business days (excluding holidays and weekends) until my last day January 6th. Our company has 4 scheduled holidays for Christmas / New Years. I had already scheduled with my boss to take my 3 accrued vacation days next week to have the full week off (traveling out of state).
I'm a little concerned that by giving notice tomorrow, they might mess me around in regards to the holiday time. If I understand correctly, it's technically possible for an employer to just let their employee go and not pay them two weeks. However, I can hardly imagine that would happen. Most common scenario seems to be that if they don't want me to work, they would let me go with pay in lieu of notice. However, with all the holiday time between now and my last, would they pay me out for that?
Alternatively, should I wait to give notice until Thursday (my last day before the holidays). I don't really feel right about that, because it leaves very few days that I would be in the office if they do choose to keep me around.
FYI, I am salaried.
Thanks for any help. Pretty confused on how this would typically play out.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
Have you officially signed the offer letter and received a starting date in writing? If not, I'd hold off on giving our notice till you get that.
Every company is different, but the times i've given my 2 week notice they've never kept me on the network doing work past 1 week.
Every company is different, but the times i've given my 2 week notice they've never kept me on the network doing work past 1 week.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
I have the starting date/offer letter in writing. I am signing it and emailing it back tonight.TRC wrote:Have you officially signed the offer letter and received a starting date in writing? If not, I'd hold off on giving our notice till you get that.
Every company is different, but the times i've given my 2 week notice they've never kept me on the network doing work past 1 week.
I would be fine with them not keeping me doing work past one week. Just wondering if I would still get paid through January 6th. I feel I am doing the right thing by giving 10 business days notice, so I just hope that it wouldn't come back to haunt me.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
This thread is now in the Personal Finance (Not Investing) forum (career guidance).
^^^ Do nothing until you receive confirmation of a start date from your new employer.TRC wrote:Have you officially signed the offer letter and received a starting date in writing? If not, I'd hold off on giving our notice till you get that.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
That is likely how my post came across, but it was not my intention. My intention was to find out if there's any precedent for understanding how company's typically handle notice periods. E.g. does 2 weeks notice mean 14 days, or is it understood that if there's a lot of holidays in that period you're going to give 10 business days and they won't screw you for it?LadyGeek wrote:This thread is now in the Personal Finance (Not Investing) forum (career guidance).
^^^ Do nothing until you receive confirmation of a start date from your new employer.TRC wrote:Have you officially signed the offer letter and received a starting date in writing? If not, I'd hold off on giving our notice till you get that.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
In writing.LadyGeek wrote:This thread is now in the Personal Finance (Not Investing) forum (career guidance).
^^^ Do nothing until you receive confirmation of a start date from your new employer.TRC wrote:Have you officially signed the offer letter and received a starting date in writing? If not, I'd hold off on giving our notice till you get that.
If you have an employee handbook or some sort, it probably says what the policy is about vacation days in this scenario.
I am a little surprised that your going to a competitor will not be seen as a problem, even though you would be working in a different area.
I have always interpreted two weeks as two calendar weeks.
-
- Posts: 3595
- Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2014 3:19 pm
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
You will likely be sent home and off the payroll the day you give notice. That's how Megacorp does it. They don't have to keep you around.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
Yeah, unless they have a reason to keep you, they will probably send you day of your notice when they ask who your new employer is if it's a competitor. They probably won't care that you're going to a different position in making that decision. For many corps, that just a policy.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
I don't know that it's necessary to disclose the identity of your new employer. Just resign with an expected last day of work.
The closest helping hand is at the end of your own arm.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
It can vary.
They may need you to wrap up projects or transition your work to a co-worker. With the holidays it may take more than two weeks. I've even seen former employees come back for an hour or two to resolve an issue that arose several weeks or a few month's after leaving. You never know what the future holds and you could work there again or somewhere else for a former supervisor or co-worker.
Or they may escort you out of the building when you give notice.
Have your personal belongings collected and clear your desk before giving notice in case you get the "bums rush."
They may need you to wrap up projects or transition your work to a co-worker. With the holidays it may take more than two weeks. I've even seen former employees come back for an hour or two to resolve an issue that arose several weeks or a few month's after leaving. You never know what the future holds and you could work there again or somewhere else for a former supervisor or co-worker.
Or they may escort you out of the building when you give notice.
Have your personal belongings collected and clear your desk before giving notice in case you get the "bums rush."
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
Two weeks notice is a courtesy and many companies do pay you if they don't want you to work the entire time. But in no way are they obligated to do so unless that is a state law. In my state, employment can be terminated at will. I honestly can't tell you how this would "typically" play out, because you are the first person I have heard of who planned to give notice and then take off for a week of vacation.Gufomel wrote:I've just received a job offer today that I'm very excited about and I'm accepting. The company I'm going to is a competitor of my current company, although I will not be doing the same type of work as I do for my current company.
I know my boss likes the work I do and I have a pretty good relationship with him. But I've only been with this company for a few months. I'm changing jobs because my current company has publically announced that it's exploring options to sell, so the long-term future of my position is uncertain at best.
My question is around giving 2 weeks notice, especially at this time of year. The company I'm going to wants me to start January 9th. If I give notice tomorrow, that would be 10 business days (excluding holidays and weekends) until my last day January 6th. Our company has 4 scheduled holidays for Christmas / New Years. I had already scheduled with my boss to take my 3 accrued vacation days next week to have the full week off (traveling out of state).
I'm a little concerned that by giving notice tomorrow, they might mess me around in regards to the holiday time. If I understand correctly, it's technically possible for an employer to just let their employee go and not pay them two weeks. However, I can hardly imagine that would happen. Most common scenario seems to be that if they don't want me to work, they would let me go with pay in lieu of notice. However, with all the holiday time between now and my last, would they pay me out for that?
Alternatively, should I wait to give notice until Thursday (my last day before the holidays). I don't really feel right about that, because it leaves very few days that I would be in the office if they do choose to keep me around.
FYI, I am salaried.
Thanks for any help. Pretty confused on how this would typically play out.
You seem pretty concerned about not being paid for your final week, your time off, or the holidays. But seem to be okay with leaving the company after having been there for only a few months and at a time of the year they can't possibly back fill your position or find someone to cover for you (if that is necessary). I understand you need to do what you need to do, but you also need to be ready to accept the consequences of your own actions.
FYI - If you can't handle 2 weeks without a paycheck, you need to beef up your emergency fund.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
If they do cut you early, the new employer may be able to move up your start date.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
Before you give notice you should make very certain that you did not sign a non-compete agreement when you joined the company. Even though you may think you'll be doing something different, your present employer may not see it that way. You could be out a lot more than two week's pay.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
Place your own interests before Megacorp's. Megacorp would, and has, done the same. If you're concerned about future references, or possibly the need to return to Megacorp, then proceed with caution and do everything "by the book." Otherwise, do what is best for you and quit on your own terms. This is how the real world operates.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
-
- Posts: 486
- Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:46 pm
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
But if they terminate, doesn't that change the game from your quitting to you being fired? And if so, couldn't you file for unemployment? I always thought companies specifically paid out thru the end of notice to avoid this issue...cherijoh wrote:But in no way are they obligated to do so unless that is a state law. In my state, employment can be terminated at will.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
Agree with the above. I once had someone give 2 weeks notice the day before a 2week vacation. How concerned the parties (employee and employer) are about burning bridges and reputation will have the largest impact on how the 2weeks notice is handled.
Two weeks notice is a courtesy and many companies do pay you if they don't want you to work the entire time. But in no way are they obligated to do so unless that is a state law. In my state, employment can be terminated at will. I honestly can't tell you how this would "typically" play out, because you are the first person I have heard of who planned to give notice and then take off for a week of vacation.
You seem pretty concerned about not being paid for your final week, your time off, or the holidays. But seem to be okay with leaving the company after having been there for only a few months and at a time of the year they can't possibly back fill your position or find someone to cover for you (if that is necessary). I understand you need to do what you need to do, but you also need to be ready to accept the consequences of your own actions.
FYI - If you can't handle 2 weeks without a paycheck, you need to beef up your emergency fund.
-
- Posts: 416
- Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 5:54 pm
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
As mentioned earlier, megacorp will escort you out the door right after you answer the question "where are you going" honestly.
I've yet to see a mega Corp not pay out those last two weeks, regardless of circumstances for 2 main reasons:
- First, you are stating a willful last date of employment 2 weeks out. If they don't pay you through that date, they have now terminated you. With that opens them up to lawsuits, unemployment claims, etc. All things mega Corp goes out of their way to reduce risk of occurring. Hardly worth 2 weeks of salary for them.
- Second, if they didnt payout out once and made it a pattern, no one would ever provide 2 weeks notice again to the company.
I've yet to see a mega Corp not pay out those last two weeks, regardless of circumstances for 2 main reasons:
- First, you are stating a willful last date of employment 2 weeks out. If they don't pay you through that date, they have now terminated you. With that opens them up to lawsuits, unemployment claims, etc. All things mega Corp goes out of their way to reduce risk of occurring. Hardly worth 2 weeks of salary for them.
- Second, if they didnt payout out once and made it a pattern, no one would ever provide 2 weeks notice again to the company.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
I'm not sure where you got the idea that this was a megacorp. The OP only mentions that company has publically announced that it is exploring options to sell. To my mind it could therefore be a small to medium sized company and may not have a savvy HR department.VoiceOfReason wrote:As mentioned earlier, megacorp will escort you out the door right after you answer the question "where are you going" honestly.
I've yet to see a mega Corp not pay out those last two weeks, regardless of circumstances for 2 main reasons:
- First, you are stating a willful last date of employment 2 weeks out. If they don't pay you through that date, they have now terminated you. With that opens them up to lawsuits, unemployment claims, etc. All things mega Corp goes out of their way to reduce risk of occurring. Hardly worth 2 weeks of salary for them.
- Second, if they didnt payout out once and made it a pattern, no one would ever provide 2 weeks notice again to the company.
I have an acquaintance who was let go as a consultant while she out of state working at a customer's site. They called her up and wanted her to vacate the extended stay hotel that same day and didn't want to pay for her return flight home. She kicked up a fuss and they did pay for an extra night at the hotel and for her ticket home.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
How can you file for unemployment if you resign to accept a different job starting in 2 weeks? that would be FRAUD.Millennial wrote:But if they terminate, doesn't that change the game from your quitting to you being fired? And if so, couldn't you file for unemployment? I always thought companies specifically paid out thru the end of notice to avoid this issue...cherijoh wrote:But in no way are they obligated to do so unless that is a state law. In my state, employment can be terminated at will.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
I would give two calendar weeks notice, not 10 business days. Moreover, I wouldn't tell your current employer where you are going.
Earlyout made a very good suggestion - ensure that you did not sign any enforceable noncompete agreement. Depending on your important to your current company and strength of competition between your current and your soon-to-join companies, your current company could make noise. NOTE - in some states, at least in California, non-compete agreements are not enforceable, regardless if you signed one or not.
Also, user5027 made a good point, too. If your current company terminates you before your two weeks are up, you may be able to start sooner at your new company.
Last, congrats on the new job! Hopefully it is a better situation and a great way to start the new year.
Earlyout made a very good suggestion - ensure that you did not sign any enforceable noncompete agreement. Depending on your important to your current company and strength of competition between your current and your soon-to-join companies, your current company could make noise. NOTE - in some states, at least in California, non-compete agreements are not enforceable, regardless if you signed one or not.
Also, user5027 made a good point, too. If your current company terminates you before your two weeks are up, you may be able to start sooner at your new company.
Last, congrats on the new job! Hopefully it is a better situation and a great way to start the new year.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
It seems like you aren't going to be working either way. The point of the two week notice is to help transition. If you are not there to help transition, then there is no point--you're either out unpaid or out paid, but the benefit of the notice to be employer is moot. You might as well not offer notice and then quit after your paid vacation. I wouldn't feel too bad about it. It is just the way it goes in December.
- whodidntante
- Posts: 13114
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:11 pm
- Location: outside the echo chamber
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
If you're fired on the spot, so be it. Let the chips fall where they may.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
To answer your question, notify your LM right away. There is no reason to hold off immediately before you take leave. I would be responsible to do what I can to wrap things up, document any process and try to hand it off in the least impact way.
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
You are going to a competitor. It is a small world, and there is a chance that in the future you will need to work with some of the same people.
Also, you need to look yourself in the mirror. You likely have responsibilities at the existing company. Do what is right.
Even though Friday would be the 2 weeks, I suggest you give the notice as soon as possible, as explained below When you give the notice, be as clear as possible that you will do all you can from 1/2-1/6 to transition your duties to others, and further, that you will make yourself available after hours for phone calls to ensure a smooth transition.
As the others have said, the timing is not good.
Some companies just automatically terminate employees who give notice. If that happens, it happens. Not much you can do about it, and it reinforces you made the right decision.
Other companies walk people to the door, locking them out, but still give two weeks pay. In that case, you will get your already scheduled paid vacation, as well as paid vacation for the first week of January.
In your case, you have two things going against you- a) you will be on vacation during the first week of your notice and b) the single week you will work is the start of a new year, which usually means they pay your January insurance, and they have to carry you as an employee for 2017. A likely scenario, if your state allows it, it thanking you for the notice, but making 12/31/16 your last effective date, along with one week of severance pay to cover the salary you won't get for that first week in January. Effectively, your compensation would be the same as if you could work during your notice period, EXCEPT the employer does not need to provide January medical, dental, & vision coverage and gets you off the books for 2017.
As a boss or co-worker, I would also think more of you if you told me as early as possible this week, to allow for transition plans during the rest of this week.
Also, you need to look yourself in the mirror. You likely have responsibilities at the existing company. Do what is right.
Even though Friday would be the 2 weeks, I suggest you give the notice as soon as possible, as explained below When you give the notice, be as clear as possible that you will do all you can from 1/2-1/6 to transition your duties to others, and further, that you will make yourself available after hours for phone calls to ensure a smooth transition.
As the others have said, the timing is not good.
Some companies just automatically terminate employees who give notice. If that happens, it happens. Not much you can do about it, and it reinforces you made the right decision.
Other companies walk people to the door, locking them out, but still give two weeks pay. In that case, you will get your already scheduled paid vacation, as well as paid vacation for the first week of January.
In your case, you have two things going against you- a) you will be on vacation during the first week of your notice and b) the single week you will work is the start of a new year, which usually means they pay your January insurance, and they have to carry you as an employee for 2017. A likely scenario, if your state allows it, it thanking you for the notice, but making 12/31/16 your last effective date, along with one week of severance pay to cover the salary you won't get for that first week in January. Effectively, your compensation would be the same as if you could work during your notice period, EXCEPT the employer does not need to provide January medical, dental, & vision coverage and gets you off the books for 2017.
As a boss or co-worker, I would also think more of you if you told me as early as possible this week, to allow for transition plans during the rest of this week.
- Epsilon Delta
- Posts: 8090
- Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:00 pm
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
FRAUD would be if you lied when you filed. If you answer all the questions truthfully they may or may not pay, but there can be no FRAUD.cherijoh wrote:How can you file for unemployment if you resign to accept a different job starting in 2 weeks? that would be FRAUD.Millennial wrote:But if they terminate, doesn't that change the game from your quitting to you being fired? And if so, couldn't you file for unemployment? I always thought companies specifically paid out thru the end of notice to avoid this issue...cherijoh wrote:But in no way are they obligated to do so unless that is a state law. In my state, employment can be terminated at will.
-
- Posts: 441
- Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2016 5:16 pm
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
local law matters, but generally, if you have accrued vacation time, they are required to pay you for it if they terminate you. yes, once you give notice, they can fire you (assuming no written contract/state law barring it), just like you can up and leave them with no notice. personally, i wouldnt burn bridges by giving inadequate notice, so i would lean towards giving two weeks notice if your new job is lined up.
there are some really pessimistic attitudes about "megacorps" in this forum, which really arent that useful. unless your position is unnecessary, your company isnt going to fire you immediately. they will want to find a replacement, which is why you are giving notice in the first place. its a shady move in my opinion to leave a job without adequate notice especially around the holidays when it will be harder for them to find a replacement, or will be forced to make others work overtime to fill your position.
there are some really pessimistic attitudes about "megacorps" in this forum, which really arent that useful. unless your position is unnecessary, your company isnt going to fire you immediately. they will want to find a replacement, which is why you are giving notice in the first place. its a shady move in my opinion to leave a job without adequate notice especially around the holidays when it will be harder for them to find a replacement, or will be forced to make others work overtime to fill your position.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
In my experience, the first week of unemployment is not covered by unemployment payments. The OP's state may differ. So, one week at stake vs. two weeks. Unless the new company falls through.Millennial wrote:But if they terminate, doesn't that change the game from your quitting to you being fired? And if so, couldn't you file for unemployment? I always thought companies specifically paid out thru the end of notice to avoid this issue...cherijoh wrote:But in no way are they obligated to do so unless that is a state law. In my state, employment can be terminated at will.
Last edited by mouses on Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
It's not fraud if he's fired. If he's fired, he loses pay.cherijoh wrote:How can you file for unemployment if you resign to accept a different job starting in 2 weeks? that would be FRAUD.Millennial wrote:But if they terminate, doesn't that change the game from your quitting to you being fired? And if so, couldn't you file for unemployment? I always thought companies specifically paid out thru the end of notice to avoid this issue...cherijoh wrote:But in no way are they obligated to do so unless that is a state law. In my state, employment can be terminated at will.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
Ah, innocence. In any number of places, when you give notice you will be frogmarched out the door immediately.boglephreak wrote:
there are some really pessimistic attitudes about "megacorps" in this forum, which really arent that useful. unless your position is unnecessary, your company isnt going to fire you immediately. they will want to find a replacement, which is why you are giving notice in the first place. its a shady move in my opinion to leave a job without adequate notice especially around the holidays when it will be harder for them to find a replacement, or will be forced to make others work overtime to fill your position.
If I were going to leave a job, I would normally:
Make sure the new job had a written commitment.
Inconspicuously remove all personal belongings from my office.
Make sure I had my work documented fully, etc., for the sake of whoever would take it over.
Then give notice and be prepared to stay through the notice period, and let the chips fall where they may.
The only time I left a job without adequate notice was when I had an incredibly abusive boss (verbally degrading in meetings, etc.) and the new company needed me to start as soon as possible. Even then, I had my work in shape for it to be easily taken over.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
It is fraud if he collects unemployment when he is employed with the new job. Did you think you sign up for unemployment and you get it immediately??mouses wrote:It's not fraud if he's fired. If he's fired, he loses pay.cherijoh wrote:How can you file for unemployment if you resign to accept a different job starting in 2 weeks? that would be FRAUD.Millennial wrote:But if they terminate, doesn't that change the game from your quitting to you being fired? And if so, couldn't you file for unemployment? I always thought companies specifically paid out thru the end of notice to avoid this issue...cherijoh wrote:But in no way are they obligated to do so unless that is a state law. In my state, employment can be terminated at will.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
A family friend once gave two weeks notice. He was fired immediately with no severance, and filed for unemployment for the two weeks of his notice period. It ended up going to a hearing, and he told the judge that he had been prepared to work until, say, the 15th, and was not expecting to be unemployed from the 1st through the 14th. He offered that his new job began immediately after the end of the notice period and that he was not looking to receive benefits beyond his notice period.cherijoh wrote:It is fraud if he collects unemployment when he is employed with the new job. Did you think you sign up for unemployment and you get it immediately??
The judge agreed and awarded him two weeks of unemployment benefits.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
That is certainly legitimate, and would fill back the coffers of the emergency fund. But I assume this hearing took place after he was already on the new job.FedGuy wrote:A family friend once gave two weeks notice. He was fired immediately with no severance, and filed for unemployment for the two weeks of his notice period. It ended up going to a hearing, and he told the judge that he had been prepared to work until, say, the 15th, and was not expecting to be unemployed from the 1st through the 14th. He offered that his new job began immediately after the end of the notice period and that he was not looking to receive benefits beyond his notice period.cherijoh wrote:It is fraud if he collects unemployment when he is employed with the new job. Did you think you sign up for unemployment and you get it immediately??
The judge agreed and awarded him two weeks of unemployment benefits.
From friends, I know you have to jump through hoops to get unemployment here - I wonder how many people would make the effort knowing that it would only be for 2 weeks of benefits?
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
I think OP is anchoring on the wrong thing. Having a start date in writing for the new job and avoiding having to sign a non-compete agreement for release from the old one is paramount.
Nothing else matters. Who cares about when to give notice and if they will pay for two weeks? In Grand scheme of things it is a non-issue.
Nothing else matters. Who cares about when to give notice and if they will pay for two weeks? In Grand scheme of things it is a non-issue.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
Good advice.mouses wrote: If I were going to leave a job, I would normally:
Make sure the new job had a written commitment.
Inconspicuously remove all personal belongings from my office.
Make sure I had my work documented fully, etc., for the sake of whoever would take it over.
Then give notice and be prepared to stay through the notice period, and let the chips fall where they may.
Since OP is moving to a competitor, it is far more likely that he/she will be walked out the door as soon as notice is given. I am aware of at least one manager at my megacorp who cut an employee off before he was able to verbally give his 2-week notice. He finished a critical project and then 2 weeks later gave his notice and was walked out the door immediately. I believe he was paid for his two weeks while he was already on the new job.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
This isn't a negotiation for a car where you know you'll never have to deal with the sales person again.kd2008 wrote:Nothing else matters. Who cares about when to give notice and if they will pay for two weeks? In Grand scheme of things it is a non-issue.
OP is probably not the first employee to jump ship to this competitor, so his current manager may have contacts at the new company. Also, in light of the potential future sale of the old company, there may be a lot of former coworkers working there in the future. OP should be worried about giving notice to avoid burning bridges and to avoid getting a reputation at his new employer for being irresponsible/unreliable.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
I am sorry but I don't buy this argument. You will be replaced if the employer can find someone for a bit less. There is no loyalty and there is no reputation. Those who talk about it are capitalizing on employee's naivete and fear. Those managers who gossip about past employees are the worst. They need to get a life.cherijoh wrote:This isn't a negotiation for a car where you know you'll never have to deal with the sales person again.kd2008 wrote:Nothing else matters. Who cares about when to give notice and if they will pay for two weeks? In Grand scheme of things it is a non-issue.
OP is probably not the first employee to jump ship to this competitor, so his current manager may have contacts at the new company. Also, in light of the potential future sale of the old company, there may be a lot of former coworkers working there in the future. OP should be worried about giving notice to avoid burning bridges and to avoid getting a reputation at his new employer for being irresponsible/unreliable.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
As a previous poster stated, it really depends on the company. I've seen it done all sorts of ways in my career - most of the time they let me stay in the building and finish projects through my notice period, but in one case they walked me out the door a day after I gave notice. In that case I got paid out for the two weeks (plus accumulated vacation), just basically sat at home with pay until the new job started.
In general, I think it's uncommon that an employer would immediately terminate you when you gave notice, without paying you out for the notice period. Rationale would be that if employees expected that, departing employees would simply not bother giving notice to keep the paycheck going. So even though it probably is legal for the company to terminate you on the spot, over the long term the cost to the company (in terms of disruption from employees regularly leaving without notice) is not worth whatever benefit it provides.
OP, are you aware of the company doing anything like this in the past? If not, I would give two calendar weeks' notice and not sweat it.
In general, I think it's uncommon that an employer would immediately terminate you when you gave notice, without paying you out for the notice period. Rationale would be that if employees expected that, departing employees would simply not bother giving notice to keep the paycheck going. So even though it probably is legal for the company to terminate you on the spot, over the long term the cost to the company (in terms of disruption from employees regularly leaving without notice) is not worth whatever benefit it provides.
OP, are you aware of the company doing anything like this in the past? If not, I would give two calendar weeks' notice and not sweat it.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
Give your notice.
Recognize that if they walk you out the door and don't pay you for that two weeks, it says more about them than it does about you.
As an employer I try very hard to treat my people with respect. You are not the first person to leave, nor will you be the last. If I treat you shabbily when you leave, the folks that are still there will see that.
If I can use you, for those last two weeks, I will. If I cannot, I may send you home early, but, I will pay the two weeks anyway.
LPT: Always treat your employer as you would like to be treated. What they do is on them, and there is really nothing you can do to change that.
Recognize that if they walk you out the door and don't pay you for that two weeks, it says more about them than it does about you.
As an employer I try very hard to treat my people with respect. You are not the first person to leave, nor will you be the last. If I treat you shabbily when you leave, the folks that are still there will see that.
If I can use you, for those last two weeks, I will. If I cannot, I may send you home early, but, I will pay the two weeks anyway.
LPT: Always treat your employer as you would like to be treated. What they do is on them, and there is really nothing you can do to change that.
Nescio
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
You appear to be assuming that I was talking about the old boss "tattling" to his friends at the new employer. I was actually thinking of people at the new company contacting their friend at OP's old employer to get the scoop on the new employee. It is perfectly conceivable to me that the former boss or a coworker would mention that the OP left at the holidays without giving any notice.kd2008 wrote:I am sorry but I don't buy this argument. You will be replaced if the employer can find someone for a bit less. There is no loyalty and there is no reputation. Those who talk about it are capitalizing on employee's naivete and fear. Those managers who gossip about past employees are the worst. They need to get a life.cherijoh wrote:This isn't a negotiation for a car where you know you'll never have to deal with the sales person again.kd2008 wrote:Nothing else matters. Who cares about when to give notice and if they will pay for two weeks? In Grand scheme of things it is a non-issue.
OP is probably not the first employee to jump ship to this competitor, so his current manager may have contacts at the new company. Also, in light of the potential future sale of the old company, there may be a lot of former coworkers working there in the future. OP should be worried about giving notice to avoid burning bridges and to avoid getting a reputation at his new employer for being irresponsible/unreliable.
You are welcome to your beliefs about their being "no reputation" but don't be surprised if Karma comes back and bites you in the butt in the future.
I have been actively recruited to my last two positions because of my reputation. Now, someone I worked with in at old role is being considered for an open position in my current work area. You better believe the hiring manager (who is aware that I had worked with the guy previously) gave me a call to get my opinion. Fortunately, I was able to give him a glowing recommendation. If he had been a problem employee, I wouldn't have trashed him, but I would have been truthful about any concerns.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
Congratulations on the offer! Two weeks is two weeks. You don't need to count business days or care about holidays. Don't annoy your new employer by changing the start date.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
As I noted earlier, there is usually a one week delay in unemployment coverage. So if he's firedcherijoh wrote:It is fraud if he collects unemployment when he is employed with the new job. Did you think you sign up for unemployment and you get it immediately??mouses wrote:It's not fraud if he's fired. If he's fired, he loses pay.cherijoh wrote:How can you file for unemployment if you resign to accept a different job starting in 2 weeks? that would be FRAUD.Millennial wrote:But if they terminate, doesn't that change the game from your quitting to you being fired? And if so, couldn't you file for unemployment? I always thought companies specifically paid out thru the end of notice to avoid this issue...cherijoh wrote:But in no way are they obligated to do so unless that is a state law. In my state, employment can be terminated at will.
immediately after giving notice, it's this:
fired
no employment for two weeks, somewhere in there he applies for unemployment
starts new job, no longer eligible for unemployment
the state ponies up one week's unemployment for the second week between the jobs.
- Epsilon Delta
- Posts: 8090
- Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:00 pm
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
The situation isn't that uncommon. In most places the front line administrators will be familiar with it and get the right answer in the normal processing cycle. Some of them will even clearly explain the rules when they send you the determination.cherijoh wrote:That is certainly legitimate, and would fill back the coffers of the emergency fund. But I assume this hearing took place after he was already on the new job.FedGuy wrote:A family friend once gave two weeks notice. He was fired immediately with no severance, and filed for unemployment for the two weeks of his notice period. It ended up going to a hearing, and he told the judge that he had been prepared to work until, say, the 15th, and was not expecting to be unemployed from the 1st through the 14th. He offered that his new job began immediately after the end of the notice period and that he was not looking to receive benefits beyond his notice period.cherijoh wrote:It is fraud if he collects unemployment when he is employed with the new job. Did you think you sign up for unemployment and you get it immediately??
The judge agreed and awarded him two weeks of unemployment benefits.
From friends, I know you have to jump through hoops to get unemployment here - I wonder how many people would make the effort knowing that it would only be for 2 weeks of benefits?
-
- Posts: 5993
- Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:22 pm
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
Yes, you are exactly right.Millennial wrote:But if they terminate, doesn't that change the game from your quitting to you being fired? And if so, couldn't you file for unemployment? I always thought companies specifically paid out thru the end of notice to avoid this issue...cherijoh wrote:But in no way are they obligated to do so unless that is a state law. In my state, employment can be terminated at will.
If you give notice, they shorten the notice period and don't pay you, you become eligible for unemployment. Now, in this case, there wouldn't be much benefit as there is likely a waiting period to qualify for benefits. But it does provide some cushion if the new job offer is rescinded somehow.
-
- Posts: 5993
- Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:22 pm
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
DUP POST. Sorry.
Last edited by runner3081 on Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 5993
- Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:22 pm
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
Well, considering the amount of time people spend on credit card bonuses, manufactured spending, etc. I bet most everyone would. Depending on your state, it could easily be 4 figures.cherijoh wrote:That is certainly legitimate, and would fill back the coffers of the emergency fund. But I assume this hearing took place after he was already on the new job.FedGuy wrote:A family friend once gave two weeks notice. He was fired immediately with no severance, and filed for unemployment for the two weeks of his notice period. It ended up going to a hearing, and he told the judge that he had been prepared to work until, say, the 15th, and was not expecting to be unemployed from the 1st through the 14th. He offered that his new job began immediately after the end of the notice period and that he was not looking to receive benefits beyond his notice period.cherijoh wrote:It is fraud if he collects unemployment when he is employed with the new job. Did you think you sign up for unemployment and you get it immediately??
The judge agreed and awarded him two weeks of unemployment benefits.
From friends, I know you have to jump through hoops to get unemployment here - I wonder how many people would make the effort knowing that it would only be for 2 weeks of benefits?
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
runner3081 wrote:Well, considering the amount of time people spend on credit card bonuses, manufactured spending, etc. I bet most everyone would. Depending on your state, it could easily be 4 figures.cherijoh wrote:That is certainly legitimate, and would fill back the coffers of the emergency fund. But I assume this hearing took place after he was already on the new job.FedGuy wrote:A family friend once gave two weeks notice. He was fired immediately with no severance, and filed for unemployment for the two weeks of his notice period. It ended up going to a hearing, and he told the judge that he had been prepared to work until, say, the 15th, and was not expecting to be unemployed from the 1st through the 14th. He offered that his new job began immediately after the end of the notice period and that he was not looking to receive benefits beyond his notice period.cherijoh wrote:It is fraud if he collects unemployment when he is employed with the new job. Did you think you sign up for unemployment and you get it immediately??
The judge agreed and awarded him two weeks of unemployment benefits.
From friends, I know you have to jump through hoops to get unemployment here - I wonder how many people would make the effort knowing that it would only be for 2 weeks of benefits?
Hardly - maximum unemployment benefits in NC are $350/week. And per other posts on this thread, you don't get benefits for your first week of unemployment. It may have changed, but during the great recession you had to show up in person and wait in line to apply for the benefits.
-
- Posts: 5993
- Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:22 pm
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
Washington State has a fairly high cap on their Unemployment and the application process is all online.cherijoh wrote:runner3081 wrote:Well, considering the amount of time people spend on credit card bonuses, manufactured spending, etc. I bet most everyone would. Depending on your state, it could easily be 4 figures.cherijoh wrote:That is certainly legitimate, and would fill back the coffers of the emergency fund. But I assume this hearing took place after he was already on the new job.FedGuy wrote:A family friend once gave two weeks notice. He was fired immediately with no severance, and filed for unemployment for the two weeks of his notice period. It ended up going to a hearing, and he told the judge that he had been prepared to work until, say, the 15th, and was not expecting to be unemployed from the 1st through the 14th. He offered that his new job began immediately after the end of the notice period and that he was not looking to receive benefits beyond his notice period.cherijoh wrote:It is fraud if he collects unemployment when he is employed with the new job. Did you think you sign up for unemployment and you get it immediately??
The judge agreed and awarded him two weeks of unemployment benefits.
From friends, I know you have to jump through hoops to get unemployment here - I wonder how many people would make the effort knowing that it would only be for 2 weeks of benefits?
Hardly - maximum unemployment benefits in NC are $350/week. And per other posts on this thread, you don't get benefits for your first week of unemployment. It may have changed, but during the great recession you had to show up in person and wait in line to apply for the benefits.
On the other hand, in Arizona, the cap is extremely low.
This is obviously dependent on that state you are in. Even then. $350 for 20 minutes of work isn't bad
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
Absolutely a possibility. It all depends. In a past life (for a megacorp), if there was even a suspicion that a person that gave notice was going to a competitor, they were gone that day. Contrary to the general practice of paying to the date of notice, this megacorp terminated pay THAT day they walked you out. That could cause problems for you if you depends on that 2 weeks pay and could also cause earlier termination of benefits, such as health insurance.NotWhoYouThink wrote:You will likely be sent home and off the payroll the day you give notice. That's how Megacorp does it. They don't have to keep you around.
I suggest being 100% prepared for any possibility:
1. They walk you out the door , BUT pay you through the 2 week notice
2. They walk you out the door, and that is your last day on the payroll
3. They keep you on the job through the 2 week notice.
-
- Posts: 15368
- Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:53 am
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
Just had one of my top-2 scientific technical writers put in his two weeks last Thursday. This particular employee worked a lot directly with my boss (chief medical officer) in developing his presentations and writing speeches for him. When I called my boss to ask him if he wanted me to try to keep him (ie., see if I could get him some more money or a project that he'd enjoy more), he said no, in fact he had me tell him that there was no need for 2wks, that today would be his last day. Was a bit frustrating because this individual gave me his two week (verbal) notice, immediately after our end of year review where I had handed him his bonus and we discussed his raise for the upcoming year, and I had just approved his PTO request which would have been almost the entirety of his final two weeks. He obviously had it all planned out. He wasn't going to a competitor, actually going into an entirely new field, but the usual response at my Megacorp is to have them escorted out of the building immediately. We will be mailing him a check for his unused PTO.
Re: Giving two weeks notice around the holidays
He is lucky the check for the bonus was not rescinded and the payment of the check stopped!stoptothink wrote:Just had one of my top-2 scientific technical writers put in his two weeks last Thursday. This particular employee worked a lot directly with my boss (chief medical officer) in developing his presentations and writing speeches for him. When I called my boss to ask him if he wanted me to try to keep him (ie., see if I could get him some more money or a project that he'd enjoy more), he said no, in fact he had me tell him that there was no need for 2wks, that today would be his last day. Was a bit frustrating because this individual gave me his two week (verbal) notice, immediately after our end of year review where I had handed him his bonus and we discussed his raise for the upcoming year, and I had just approved his PTO request which would have been almost the entirety of his final two weeks. He obviously had it all planned out. He wasn't going to a competitor, actually going into an entirely new field, but the usual response at my Megacorp is to have them escorted out of the building immediately. We will be mailing him a check for his unused PTO.