When have you given enough?

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RadAudit
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When have you given enough?

Post by RadAudit » Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:25 pm

I'm not looking for a dollar amount. A process to get to answer would be appreciated, however.

I'm retired with a enough money to be moderately comfortable if we continue to live modestly. But a question has come up.

In planning the next vacation, the DW has expressed reservations about booking the cruise (which she wants to take) because of the cost. We can afford it; but, she's reluctant to go because she believes we ought to give more money to the kids. (Both kids have master degrees that we've paid for and a job. Neither kid is hurting; but, they aren't living high on the hog in a HCOL area, either.)

I guess the question could be raised about any worthy cause. Kids, grandkids, world hunger, the alma mater, the church ... But, how much of your scarce resources do you give to a worthy cause when total needs / wants always exceed what's available?
FI is the best revenge. LBYM. Invest the rest. Stay the course. - PS: The Calvary isn't coming, kids. You are on your own.

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mhc
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by mhc » Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:32 pm

A child with a masters degree and job is not a worthy cause. $0 is enough.

If the child lost his job and needed help making ends meet, then he would be a worthy cause. The limit may be up to the point of sinking your own ship.

For others and non-profits, you have to decide for yourself what is enough. Some give a lot while others give little.

For me, I plan that 15% of all that I spend goes to charities and to help people directly.

MrNewEngland
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by MrNewEngland » Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:34 pm

I think the answer is going to be different for everyone, and it sounds like your answer and your wife's answer may be different.

So I can't answer for you but I can give you some insight of my own. My parents are retired and did much better for themselves than I had ever thought they did. My father ran heavy equipment and my mother was a receptionist. As they got older my father became a superintendent and my mother became office manager. We always lived modestly and both my sister and I thought they didn't have much. They both got forced into retirement and my sister and I thought they'd be struggling. We recently found out that they are really well set for the rest of their lives and have a quite surprising amount of assets (for the record I don't know the exact amount).

The reason I bring all this up is because even though I know that there is money... I hope I don't inherit a penny. They've been living it up in retirement by travelling/finding new hobbies and I hope they continue to do so. I'm actually really proud of them - not so much for having the money but for spending it. They are completely different people now that they are retired. Not only are they more carefree and happy... but they have both lost a LOT of weight and are really into fitness.

Just my $0.02.

MathWizard
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by MathWizard » Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:36 pm

If the kids have Master's degrees, (or even bachelor's) that you paid for, they should be set.

You've saved your whole lives. Go have some fun. Your kids may feel the same way.
I sure told my mother that. I felt it was a privilege to pay for her meal if we went out, as she
had done a lot for me.

dbr
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by dbr » Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:40 pm

No one else can give you an answer to either kids or charities. I do believe your wife has given you an answer though.

Engineer250
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by Engineer250 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:43 pm

It's my personal opinion adult children are not entitled to any more help from the bank of Mom & Dad. I don't have kids of my own, but I've told both my parents I don't need/want/expect anything from them. They have a modest pension and a small IRA. I've encouraged them to travel more and spend down the IRA. They helped me enough already, I want them to enjoy life. I've inherited a wonderful childhood, and they continue to give me advice and emotional support that is all the inheritance I need.

I don't plan to have kids. I do have two nephews, but there is a bit of money on my bro-in-law's side of the family, and I also don't want my relationship with my nephews to be about a dollar amount that might be left to them. It was my parents' own idea that we consider setting up a trust and leaving whatever is left to some charities of our choice, and I really like that idea.

Have you and your wife spoken to your kids about this directly? Have you asked your wife why she feels it's important? Is it possible there are other issues here? Maybe your kids mean well but complain about money to your wife. Or maybe a cruise isn't something she'd really enjoy so she's dodging the issue this way. Or maybe she's so used to sacrificing everything for her kids she doesn't know how to let go and have fun.
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Texanbybirth
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by Texanbybirth » Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:49 pm

dbr wrote:No one else can give you an answer to either kids or charities. I do believe your wife has given you an answer though.
Yeah, agreed. I don't see how we're going to be able to help when a husband and wife have a disagreement like this, especially concerning their kids. Have you investigated further in dialogue with your wife what her thinking is? Why does she want to give more money to your children? What is her motivation? I'm not gonna say whether she's right or wrong, but it might help you understand her reservation.

It does sound to me like y'all have given them a great start. I wouldn't feel (and I don't think my wife would either) bad about spending a little bit of our savings on ourselves after working so hard. Maybe there's another place y'all can cut back on for a little bit to compensate for all or part of the cost of the trip, so she doesn't think all of the money is just "gone"? Almost like you're "saving up" again like you did before retirement?

stoptothink
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by stoptothink » Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:50 pm

mhc wrote:A child with a masters degree and job is not a worthy cause. $0 is enough.

If the child lost his job and needed help making ends meet, then he would be a worthy cause. The limit may be up to the point of sinking your own ship.
This. We go through this almost monthly, except with my in-laws. I finally had to have a talk with my wife about cutting it off and then the even more awkward conversation with them, about being responsible adults (at nearly 60).

OP, sounds like you have provided them with a massive head start in their own life; time to enjoy your own hard work without guilt.

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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by Carefreeap » Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:51 pm

Or perhaps your wife would like to share the cruise experience with your children?

This doesn't have to be an all or nothing deal. Maybe the family "Holiday" present this year is a cruise. Maybe you do it again in another 5 years. I think it's important to have a good conversation with your wife about her expectations. What you don't want is for your kids to feel entitled or conversely obligated to be on every trip with you guys.

ReadyToRetire
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by ReadyToRetire » Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:57 pm

I see where Darrow Kirkpatrick is dealing with the same topic:

http://www.caniretireyet.com/

Good luck - it is definitely a difficult and sometimes sensitive subject. I wish you all the best.

JohnFiscal
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by JohnFiscal » Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:00 pm

Maybe enlist your kids into this, "help me convince your mom to loosen the purse strings so we can go on this cruise, she wants to dote on you guys, and as much as I do too I'm thinking 'it's our time' now to have some fun"

eta: I can't believe that any self-respecting young adult will say "no, no, gimme the money! I want it now!". I'm sure they'll want you two to go and have fun.

123
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by 123 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:03 pm

If a kid has a college degree (regardless of the level) he should be able to work things out him/herself. All the financial support that doesn't come from their own efforts isn't going to help them a bit in the long run.
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Christine_NM
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by Christine_NM » Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:05 pm

Everyone will be different on this. There's no right or wrong answer. I do not see what my giving could possibly have to do with your taking a cruise or giving more to kids.

I will say that my Mom just waited till she was a widow and then started gifting me cash. So don't worry, the kids will eventually get what Mom wants them to have, whether they need it or not.
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MathWizard
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by MathWizard » Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:11 pm

stoptothink wrote:
mhc wrote:A child with a masters degree and job is not a worthy cause. $0 is enough.

If the child lost his job and needed help making ends meet, then he would be a worthy cause. The limit may be up to the point of sinking your own ship.
This. We go through this almost monthly, except with my in-laws. I finally had to have a talk with my wife about cutting it off and then the even more awkward conversation with them, about being responsible adults (at nearly 60).

OP, sounds like you have provided them with a massive head start in their own life; time to enjoy your own hard work without guilt.
Stoptothink,

Was that when you were nearly 60, or when the kids were nearly 60??? It sound like the latter. Yikes!!

barnaclebob
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by barnaclebob » Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:12 pm

If your kids knew you were worrying about this I assume they would think you are crazy for not taking the cruise in order to give them more of an inheritance. If they don't think you are crazy then they don't deserve the money anyway. Moral problem solved...

soboggled
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by soboggled » Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:15 pm

Sounds to me like some kind of massive irrational guilt trip. Have the kids themselves explain things to her: "Enjoy your remaining days, you've done enough for us already, we don't want or need your money, seeing you having a good time in your old age makes us happy." If they won't say that, screw 'em. (Of course this assumes they are getting by OK.)
How much you give to charity is your business. You don't really have to do it unless you want to and it makes you feel good.

stoptothink
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by stoptothink » Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:23 pm

MathWizard wrote:
stoptothink wrote:
mhc wrote:A child with a masters degree and job is not a worthy cause. $0 is enough.

If the child lost his job and needed help making ends meet, then he would be a worthy cause. The limit may be up to the point of sinking your own ship.
This. We go through this almost monthly, except with my in-laws. I finally had to have a talk with my wife about cutting it off and then the even more awkward conversation with them, about being responsible adults (at nearly 60).

OP, sounds like you have provided them with a massive head start in their own life; time to enjoy your own hard work without guilt.
Stoptothink,

Was that when you were nearly 60, or when the kids were nearly 60??? It sound like the latter. Yikes!!
No, my in-laws are nearly 60 and we have been providing them economic outpatient care for the last handful of years. Up until a few months ago it was still happening, despite my wife having gotten my FIL a job which should easily cover their living expenses. At that point, we were forgoing our own comfort so they, her parents, could have and do things we would never even consider (several vacations, a new unnecessary car, etc.)

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corwin
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by corwin » Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:42 pm

I want nothing from my parents (in their 80's) except that they take care of themselves and enjoy what they can.

"Generous people take care of their own needs first. In fact, doing so is a moral necessity. The world needs you at your best." - Scott Adams

Is a cruise a "need"? Sometimes it is.

APB
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by APB » Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:59 pm

RadAudit wrote:I'm not looking for a dollar amount. A process to get to answer would be appreciated.
You have employed children with fully paid for undergraduate degrees and masters degrees. You have exceeded most parents, and your parental responsibilities. As a guiding principle, I would now focus on, in order:

1) Your "needs".
2) Getting your retirement assets to safely cover your "needs" for the rest of your life.
3) Your "wants".
4) Getting your retirement assets to safely cover your "wants" for the rest of your life.
5) Children and/or charity.

I'm younger, and advise my parents similarly. Your wife will live a happier, less stressful life if she accepts this. It's tough to transition from taking care of people for 20+ years, and then letting them take care of themselves. Perhaps show her this forum, and the general consensus that you two have done great and fulfilled all obligations?
My posts represent my own opinion and do not constitute financial advice. I am simply a hobbyist. :)

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by TomatoTomahto » Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:36 pm

APB wrote:It's tough to transition from taking care of people for 20+ years, and then letting them take care of themselves.
That might be why it's tougher for my wife. She and I have 2 kids, the oldest 20. I have 2 kids from a previous marriage, the oldest of whom is 34. It's much easier for me to say "Enough" after 34 years :sharebeer

My parents paid for my UG degree. It pleases me that my total inheritance was $11k. I would not have wanted it any other way.
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Nowizard
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by Nowizard » Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:38 pm

Without meaning to be snarky, how can anyone determine what "ought" to be done outside their own value system? The correct amount is the amount you can and wish to give. Put bluntly, there are likely to be people or charities that do need money that you would not give to regardless of your finances and those you would give to who do not need it because it made you feel good. You will get several different answers, but they will reflect the value system of the poster, as does this one. The only issue I would consider is also related to your personality. If you give amounts this year, is that likely to be something you will feel you must continue in the future regardless of finances? If so, it is important to set the appropriate expectation for the receiver of a gift and to assure yourself you can resist the persuasive efforts of family or charities to encourage continued giving even though your finances might not support it or your attitude has changed.

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RadAudit
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by RadAudit » Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:51 pm

Thank you all for your opinions and guidance.
FI is the best revenge. LBYM. Invest the rest. Stay the course. - PS: The Calvary isn't coming, kids. You are on your own.

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Meg77
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by Meg77 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:59 pm

It sounds like your wife is a classic "giver" (hopefully not an enabler) who will never feel like that itch has been fully scratched. She may be appeased and more willing to spend on herself if you set aside a certain dollar amount per year to give to your kids and stick to it.

Or you could get creative and involve the family in things you want to do. My grandmother loves to travel but is also a classic self-sacrificing type, so she resolved those two apparently conflicting issues by inviting her daughters, her granddaughters, her grandchildren, and the whole family (respectively) on various trips that she planned and fully paid for over the years. These trips are some of my best childhood - and adulthood - memories. I sincerely hope my own mother carries on the tradition. :)
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Watty
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by Watty » Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:18 pm

I have known several people that have had to support their parents and can be very hard for everyone involved and stressful on the kids marriages since their spouse would be giving up a lot to support the in-laws. By far one of the best things you can do it so make sure that your kids never have to support you even if you have a something happen like some combination of you live to be over 100, have higher than expected expenses, poor investing returns, and high inflation.

If you have a bullet proof retirement plan for the worst case financial need then in all likelihood the worst case will not happen and the kids(or the charity of your choice) will inherit a significant amount of money some day.

Since the choice is between taking the cruise or being more generous then it sounds like you are not anywhere close to that so it may be too soon to become overly generous.

There is not one right answer but if your net worth is above the estate tax exclusion(about $10 million?) then that might be a sign that you could both loosen up the purse strings and take the cruise.

I'm not sure how old your are but in ten years the odds that both you and your wife will be alive and well enough to do things like take cruises is not all that good. Take the cruise while you can.

malabargold
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by malabargold » Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:37 pm

Charity, kids, self - think it through carefully. Ruminate on it,
considering all consequences: then choose the path that
leads to true happiness

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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:53 pm

Here's another thought that I hadn't seen mentioned so far:

Don't you think the money you use on the cruise will be helping many people (the waiters, janitors, cruise director, captain, travel agent, farmers who grew the food that you'll eat on the cruise, and on and on)???

If everyone decided not to take a cruise, all of those employees providing the cruise would be out of a job. Then they'd need charity.

The way I see it is all money will be used. The only questions are: 1. when and 2. by whom?

That's really all you need to decide. And realize that money spent on things that appear to be luxuries are not only helping you (give you an experience) but are also likely helping the others providing you with those experiences. That's a virtuous circle. If you want to donate to charity instead, fine. But whenever you spend money, you're helping others somewhere (whether directly or indirectly through a long chain it took to deliver the item(s) you're buying).

Some might say you could do more good giving money to charity than taking a trip. But that's a value judgement.
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Bastiat
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by Bastiat » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:54 pm

You have already provided plenty for your children.

I think in many cases parents who give too much end up doing more harm than good. I've known children who were kept through master's degrees and otherwise taken care of and I'll just say I don't think they were better off for it...

My parents are entering retirement age and I'd much rather them enjoy their remaining years to the fullest than worry about how much money to give me. And they didn't even have to pay for my degrees.

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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by Afty » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:13 pm

Have you asked your kids what they think? I would guess they would be strongly in favor of you taking the vacation. I would be very upset if my parents ever considered skipping a vacation for my financial benefit.

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BL
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by BL » Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:29 pm

Take the cruise while you are young and able. The time will come when it won't be possible without a lot of complications. The kids need the sense of accomplishment of doing it on their own.

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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by SQRT » Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:45 am

A very personal thing, so no advice from me. In our case we view it as a matter of balance. In the overall scheme of things, I would like my daughter's lifestyle, in the end, to be similar to what we have achieved. I wouldn't want us to spend through all our very ample assets (even if we knew with certainly our lifespans) and she struggle all her life. I have always believed that the value of struggle is overrated. By the same token I wouldn't want to pass up the lifestyle we want in retirement just to pass on a bigger and very large inheritance to her.

So in our case we have paid for her education, helped her out with large asset purchases (home), often take her and her husband (no kids yet) on exotic trips with us, paid her way into expensive clubs, etc. This has not been to the detriment of our own lifestyle in retirement. She will no doubt receive a large inheritance from us eventually. So really now or later? Balance is key and each person needs to figure out their own approach to this. She does not act entitled, has a good job, works very hard and I am proud of her.

BrklynMike
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by BrklynMike » Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:59 am

My personal view is that you should continue to accumulate and preserve wealth for as long as you live. Historically, the opportunity to do so has been given to a very small subset of the population. I would also like to comment that this is often a question you hear from baby boomers, but one that you never heard from The Greatest Generation. I imagine that having lived through the Great Depression and WWII, they were simply happy to live frugal lives. On the other hand, the baby boomers had it better than their parents and their children, so it's difficult for them to envision a world where every year is not better than the last. My advice - leave your children and grand children every penny you have, they'll likely need it no matter their education level.
"In a world of uncertainty, one should focus more on the consequences than the probabilities." - Benjamin Graham

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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by basspond » Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:54 am

I want my kids to do better then me but a very wise man told me "Go 1st class, because if you don't your heirs will!". I still will watch what I spend but will want to splurge once in a while.

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munemaker
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by munemaker » Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:33 am

We subscribe to this philosophy.

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime"

We paid for our kids education and gave them credit cards to cover their living expenses during school. By not being saddled with college debt, they were both able to buy homes a few years out of school. We were glad to have given them a big head start in life compared to their peers.

If one of them were struggling, we would help. Otherwise, they are on their own. They prefer it that way.

I think a lot of this is cultural, based on how you were raised and how your parents treated you.

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munemaker
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by munemaker » Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:34 am

basspond wrote:I want my kids to do better then me but a very wise man told me "Go 1st class, because if you don't your heirs will!". I still will watch what I spend but will want to splurge once in a while.
Do you have one of those bumper stickers that says "I am spending my kids' inheritance"?

johnubc
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by johnubc » Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:47 am

Stop. It is your money that you earned. Book the Cruise. Your kids will likely do find. If you give them the money, they may be the ones booking the cruise.

pennywise
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by pennywise » Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:35 am

Carefreeap wrote:Or perhaps your wife would like to share the cruise experience with your children?

This doesn't have to be an all or nothing deal. Maybe the family "Holiday" present this year is a cruise. Maybe you do it again in another 5 years. I think it's important to have a good conversation with your wife about her expectations. What you don't want is for your kids to feel entitled or conversely obligated to be on every trip with you guys.
Starting this process with our adult children--no travel yet but as busy young adults, and with us still working, it's become a good use of funds to invite everyone to a nice restaurant periodically to enjoy dinner and time together.

Going forward I hope to expand the concept to do what Carefree advises because making memories of happy moments with those we most love is IMO one of the highest and best uses of that money that we can't take with us when we shuffle off this mortal coil :happy

dbr
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by dbr » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:28 am

I don't think this is about parents and kids. It is about the husband and the wife being on the same page about what their money is for.

Tamalak
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by Tamalak » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:30 am

My standards for 'financially supportive parent' is:

1. Raise your kid in a healthy and safe environment
2. Pay for his college
3. Support yourself in retirement instead of mooching off your kid

If you hit all 3 I don't think there's any reasonable cause for complaint if inheritance is $0. You did good, your kid has flown the nest, now enjoy your money!

bornloser
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by bornloser » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:34 am

Good topic and enjoyed reading the personal experiences with how to handle this. My wife and I came from very modest financial backgrounds and have worked our tails off to get to a place where we could retire early mid/late 50s. All 3 kids have college completely paid for and one slightly used car for each. We like to treat the kids to some nice meals and occasional vacation, but have absolutely no guilt issues about doing any more. We have dealt with the flipside of this issue with an aging parent who carelessly spent retirement savings and now needs help. Best move we did was to not give in to requests for financial assistance for the first few years which resulted in more prudent fiscal behavior; now we give small amounts to make sure the ship still floats.

staythecourse
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by staythecourse » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:37 am

RadAudit wrote:I'm not looking for a dollar amount. A process to get to answer would be appreciated, however.

I'm retired with a enough money to be moderately comfortable if we continue to live modestly. But a question has come up.

In planning the next vacation, the DW has expressed reservations about booking the cruise (which she wants to take) because of the cost. We can afford it; but, she's reluctant to go because she believes we ought to give more money to the kids. (Both kids have master degrees that we've paid for and a job. Neither kid is hurting; but, they aren't living high on the hog in a HCOL area, either.)

I guess the question could be raised about any worthy cause. Kids, grandkids, world hunger, the alma mater, the church ... But, how much of your scarce resources do you give to a worthy cause when total needs / wants always exceed what's available?
Why would it matter if they were doing great or not. If you put the effort into the process, i.e. stressing education and guiding them to stable career choices the best you guys could do then what it is is what it is. NOTHING good comes from giving free money out to folks who didn't earn it. All you would be doing is increasing the risk of spoiling the adult kids and decreasing their motivation to improve their own lives.

You worked hard to earn that money AND educate you kids. Treat yourself well. Go take the trip and a couple more. Whatever is left over give to your kids in a way that will lessen their own stress of not having money like setting up a 529 plan for their kids (you grandkids) so they know they don't have to stress about that cost AND to insure your grandkids educational options are taken care.

Good luck.
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cpw84
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by cpw84 » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:40 am

If your kids are that well set up and depend on or expect your money while you are still alive, they probably need to learn not to. Living in a HCOL area is a choice, not an entitlement. If they don't expect the money, it's because they are self sufficient with their high level of education and do not need it. Either way, based on my views and values, points to not giving the kids anything unless there is a seriously expensive emergency (health or natural disaster). I have a BSME from a state school that I paid my way through with scholarships and loans. I don't expect a thing from my parents. But I understand it does vary from family to family.

I would encourage you to look into causes you care about and consider setting a percentage to give every year. My favorite resource for assessing charities is https://www.thelifeyoucansave.org/.

Jamieson22
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by Jamieson22 » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:40 am

I would be upset if I knew my parents skipped doing something like that only so they could pass down an extra $10k? $20k? to my sister and I.

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DaftInvestor
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by DaftInvestor » Fri Oct 21, 2016 8:46 am

Jamieson22 wrote:I would be upset if I knew my parents skipped doing something like that only so they could pass down an extra $10k? $20k? to my sister and I.
+1 on this. I always made it very clear to my parents they should enjoy their retirement and not think of any of what they worked so hard to squirrel away as something we are entitled to or expecting.

OP: sounds like you and your spouse are feeling guilty about spending the money you worked so hard to earn and save all your lives. You shouldn't. If you want to donate to charity decide what is a "fair share" to give away - the fair-share to give away to charity is only something you can decide as everyone has a different opinion (e.g. a church might say 10%; others might say 1%; etc.).

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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by goodenyou » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:01 am

It's likely that you want to give your kids the money, and likely they want you to spend it on yourself and enjoy it. It is a typical dynamic. Sometimes it's the opposite. Milton Friedman once said [paraphrase], "although illogical in my opinion, we (parents) value our children's ability to consume much more than we value ours".
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" | "The best years you have left are the ones you have right now"

dbr
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by dbr » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:11 am

Again, all this lecturing does not need to be applied to the husband. It is the wife that wants to give more money to the kids.

It could be he should show these responses to her.

bornloser
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by bornloser » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:23 am

Tamalak wrote:My standards for 'financially supportive parent' is:

1. Raise your kid in a healthy and safe environment
2. Pay for his college
3. Support yourself in retirement instead of mooching off your kid

If you hit all 3 I don't think there's any reasonable cause for complaint if inheritance is $0. You did good, your kid has flown the nest, now enjoy your money!
+1. Number 3 was a biggie for us. Do not want to ever be a financial burden to my kids!

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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by anonyvestor » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:34 am

I find your question rather profound.

No matter what others think, you seem to be asking how much does one have to give in order to be satisfied with oneself.

For me, I wish to leave as much for others, as I have received myself. A kind of pride that I have "made my own way." (When frankly, I did not have to.)

But your wife may want more than a sense of independence. She may want to sacrifice what is dear to her to her children. Of course you are being dragged along in the sacrifice. Of course I can only speculate, but some women (and men) have a hard time pursuing their own dreams and desires.

I would suggest you talk to her about her dreams/desires, her concrete goals for what she would like to leave for your children, her self-sacrifice (which I suspect you have benefitted from yourself,) and your own dreams and desires.

I am curious if she can answer the question you have put to us. "How much is enough?" I am guessing she will not be able to answer with a number, because it is not the number that concerns her. Only guessing.

Best of luck.

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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by Tal- » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:36 am

I'm a 30-something, so I'm answering this from the perspective of the adult (and financially secure) child, and not the parent.

My parents money (and that of my inlaws) is their money. If I believed that they were not living the lives that they wanted to live, so that they could give us an inheritance, I would be both dumbfounded and upset. Live your life to the fullest.

There is a lot that aging parents can do for adult children. Have a fully developed, and communicated estate plan. Talk about advanced directives and family keepsakes. Keep your physical house in order. Have a clearly understood financial situation with no debt. Have conversations, and be open to retirement homes. In my world, these decisions and discussions are far more important than a check after you pass.

Regarding charities, that's far more personal.
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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by RadAudit » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:54 am

if your net worth is above the estate tax exclusion(about $10 million?) ...
Thank you for the compliment - but with the numbers I'm working with in the portfolio, that'll never be a level of concern for me. :happy

Again, thank you all for your thoughts and your willingness to share those insights. Thank you for your ability to read between the lines and draw out some aspects of the problem that I never thought about.
FI is the best revenge. LBYM. Invest the rest. Stay the course. - PS: The Calvary isn't coming, kids. You are on your own.

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Re: When have you given enough?

Post by downshiftme » Fri Oct 21, 2016 10:03 am

I sincerely hope my parents regard their money as their money and use it to enhance and improve their lives as much as possible. If I were ever aware of a situation in which they were deferring a cruise in order to improve my inheritance, I hope I would gift them a suitable cruise as soon I discovered such a problem. Maybe I would feel differently if I believed that they were overspending and going to impoverish themselves, but I see no danger of that. I hope they make the best of their limited time and resources. There is no need to save on my account. They've already given me a great childhood and launched me as an adult. I'm ready to take it from here.

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