Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

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njfastlife
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Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by njfastlife » Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:18 am

if you ask me, that's a bit long to wait - especially at the more junior level.

2 years with just COL raises, if that? just seems a bit slow, especially when you can jump ship to other companies after about the 1 year mark and probably get 10% without even trying.

your thoughts?

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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:24 am

It all depends on the market and what the execs at your company have decided. In the last decade, I've worked for companies with full freezes on salaries for many years. No COL raises, no merit raises, zip, nada, nothing. If you really can find a better paying job somewhere else easily (with similar benefits) and it means that much to you, go get another job. Benefits can make a huge difference. I jumped back in January and took a $25k cut in pay but the benefits have almost made up for that 6 months into the job and will snowball so next year, I'll be $50k above where I was in my last job.
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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by Jags4186 » Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:24 am

Depending on the position, I would say this is the new norm/typical.

Of course, what are you calling a COL adjustment? Inflation is only about 1% so if you received 3% you are, from the employers perspective, receiving more than a COL adjustment. They may be full of it, but that's their perspective.

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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by awizard » Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:31 am

I have worked for multiple materials based companies (think Dupont, DOW, 3M... etc.) and it is typical in this industry to only give COLA adjustments most years (think 1-2%). It typically takes 4-6 years to EARN a promotion (which brings with it a significant raise, usually more than 10%).

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slayed
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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by slayed » Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:33 am

Don't "wait" for a raise, period. Ask for one.

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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by magicj » Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:37 am

Exactly what he said above me. Ask for it. First company after college I worked for three years without a raise. Asked multiple times. Eventually got fed up and moved on.

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Psyayeayeduck
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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by Psyayeayeduck » Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:38 am

Jags4186 wrote:Depending on the position, I would say this is the new norm/typical.



I find this a sad statement and one of the reasons why many of today's workers (especially the younger professionals) are not loyal to companies and businesses. I know that, for me, I would never wait around for a company who don't bother to incentives their workers through benefits or raises. With rising prices due to greed, inflation, and such, one can't afford to just sit around doing nothing hoping that the other makes the first financial move unless they are in an already good position to start with that they don't mind having a "pay cut" by waiting around.

Granted, when you throw in a mortgage, kids, a spouse, or some kind of illness that makes one immobile, leaving a position for a better one (assuming there is one) makes it much more complicated.

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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by Dottie57 » Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:09 am

njfastlife wrote:if you ask me, that's a bit long to wait - especially at the more junior level.

2 years with just COL raises, if that? just seems a bit slow, especially when you can jump ship to other companies after about the 1 year mark and probably get 10% without even trying.

your thoughts?


Depends on state of economy, how well the company is doing. Also, how good you are at your job and how easily you can be replaced. Lots of factors.

My employer has much smaller raises, but larger bonuses.

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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by campy2010 » Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:15 am

njfastlife wrote:if you ask me, that's a bit long to wait - especially at the more junior level.

2 years with just COL raises, if that? just seems a bit slow, especially when you can jump ship to other companies after about the 1 year mark and probably get 10% without even trying.

your thoughts?


I've worked for a number of large employers and COL raises are the norm unless you are promoted. Instead of asking for a raise, ask your manager about the next step in your career trajectory and how you are progressing toward moving up along that trajectory. You can probably read between the lines about what that means for near-term changes in your salary.

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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by KlangFool » Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:41 am

OP,

In general, it is a bad idea to stay at your first employer for too long. For an engineer with 2+ years of experience, the market price for the salary will jump 30% or higher. In general, the first employer will not adjust the pay to meet the market value.

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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by KlangFool » Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:44 am

Psyayeayeduck wrote:
Jags4186 wrote:Depending on the position, I would say this is the new norm/typical.


I find this a sad statement and one of the reasons why many of today's workers (especially the younger professionals) are not loyal to companies and businesses. I know that, for me, I would never wait around for a company who don't bother to incentives their workers through benefits or raises.


Psyayeayeduck,

This had been going on for at least 20+ years. It is not a new thing. Meanwhile, people that know how to play this game still getting above average pay and bonuses.

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Psyayeayeduck
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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by Psyayeayeduck » Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:16 am

KlangFool wrote:
Psyayeayeduck wrote:
Jags4186 wrote:Depending on the position, I would say this is the new norm/typical.


I find this a sad statement and one of the reasons why many of today's workers (especially the younger professionals) are not loyal to companies and businesses. I know that, for me, I would never wait around for a company who don't bother to incentives their workers through benefits or raises.


Psyayeayeduck,

This had been going on for at least 20+ years. It is not a new thing. Meanwhile, people that know how to play this game still getting above average pay and bonuses.

KlangFool


I never said it was new. My point is that not being loyal is more prominent among the younger folks entering today's workforce and they realize that getting that promotion/raise will require some job hoping. Yes, there are a few who figured out this game early but now that game is becoming commonplace. Sadly, there are businesses out there, especially ones with a good ol' boys club mentality, who expect 100% company loyalty from their workers but give no incentive to stay, will drop people if it increases overall profit, or put the fear of god by making it sound that there is no position available with your skill set forcing people to stay a lot longer than they want to.

For me being a 30-some year old, company loyalty is such a foreign concept and a dangerous path from a wage and career growth point of view.

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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by KlangFool » Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:38 am

Psyayeayeduck wrote:
KlangFool wrote:
Psyayeayeduck wrote:
Jags4186 wrote:Depending on the position, I would say this is the new norm/typical.


I find this a sad statement and one of the reasons why many of today's workers (especially the younger professionals) are not loyal to companies and businesses. I know that, for me, I would never wait around for a company who don't bother to incentives their workers through benefits or raises.


Psyayeayeduck,

This had been going on for at least 20+ years. It is not a new thing. Meanwhile, people that know how to play this game still getting above average pay and bonuses.

KlangFool


I never said it was new. My point is that not being loyal is more prominent among the younger folks entering today's workforce and they realize that getting that promotion/raise will require some job hoping. Yes, there are a few who figured out this game early but now that game is becoming commonplace. Sadly, there are businesses out there, especially ones with a good ol' boys club mentality, who expect 100% company loyalty from their workers but give no incentive to stay, will drop people if it increases overall profit, or put the fear of god by making it sound that there is no position available with your skill set forcing people to stay a lot longer than they want to.

For me being a 30-some year old, company loyalty is such a foreign concept and a dangerous path from a wage and career growth point of view.


Psyayeayeduck,

<<My point is that not being loyal is more prominent among the younger folks entering today's workforce and they realize that getting that promotion/raise will require some job hopping. >>

In summary, you are saying that the younger generation is smarter about this. I agreed.

KlangFool

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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by Blackhawk » Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:47 am

Psyayeayeduck wrote:For me being a 30-some year old, company loyalty is such a foreign concept and a dangerous path from a wage and career growth point of view.

Exactly. Unfortunately it rarely makes sense to be a "career employee" anymore if you're any good at what you do. It usually gets framed as employees not being loyal to the company but I'd say that it's at least 50% companies not incentivizing good employees to stay and grow. What do you "owe" a company that gives you a 2% raise when another would give you a 30% raise to leave tomorrow? All else equal, you should probably go.

Sometimes you need to look out for number one. You may feel guilty at first but no reasonable person will fault you for it.

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kenyan
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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by kenyan » Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:02 am

I've been waiting 11 years for a significant raise. COLA (couched as 'merit-based raises') are the standard. Actually, my company started giving worse-than-COLA increases several years back, with half of the increase corporate-wide given as a lump sum. The only way I've gotten ahead of the inflation curve is through promotions, and a couple of special off-cycle raises. They've added up through dribs and drabs, but the largest single raise I've received (through a significant promotion) is only 5.5%.

Jumping ship is probably one of the best options, though I haven't done so just yet.
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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by an_asker » Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:20 am

kenyan wrote:I've been waiting 11 years for a significant raise. COLA (couched as 'merit-based raises') are the standard. Actually, my company started giving worse-than-COLA increases several years back, with half of the increase corporate-wide given as a lump sum. The only way I've gotten ahead of the inflation curve is through promotions, and a couple of special off-cycle raises. They've added up through dribs and drabs, but the largest single raise I've received (through a significant promotion) is only 5.5%.

Jumping ship is probably one of the best options, though I haven't done so just yet.

Looks like our employers are brothers in arms, and your attitude towards jumping ship is the same as mine! :oops:

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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by sunny_socal » Thu Sep 08, 2016 9:36 am

I've seen many people wallow in the same job grade for 8-10 years and still have no hope for a raise or promotion. Loyalty means little these days and it is not explicitly rewarded. To get a promotion @ my Megacorp requires the following stars to align:
- Several years of consistently high performance. A blemish on that record for any reason is enough to torpedo the effort.
- A recent high profile achievement, usually a 6-12 month task that was done at level above current job grade
- Visibility to higher level management. The promo reviews feature several layers of management and if none of them have heard about the individual they fall in the "draft pick" order
- Favor in the eyes of the Boss^2. It doesn't matter the first level of management is convinced an employee should get a promo, the level above must also be convinced.

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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by Spirit Rider » Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:43 am

Company loyalty is an illusion. Not only is this not something new, but it has been true for at least 30 years if not forever.

Loyalty is almost always a one-way street. The company expects loyalty from from their employees, but the truth is that the vast majority of employers have absolutely none for their employees.

They might have an elaborate propaganda machine, but everything they do is to wring the maximum out of their employees at the lowest cost. I have been in senior management meetings discussing the psychological impact of benefits and policies on recruitment and retention. It is always about the least expensive way to maintain employee loyalty.

I have never once heard anyone say; "we owe all/some/one employee(s) for their loyalty". On the other hand I can't begin to count the number of times I heard; "what can we do to make them think that we care, so they will work harder and longer hours. I actually, heard the CEO of a recent employer lamenting that when he stopped by on a Saturday, only 25% of the engineers were there.

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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by BW1985 » Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:49 am

Or more, yes. It's more feasible to achieve by changing employers because you have more control over it. Even if you exceed expectations with stellar reviews it doesn't mean you'll get a significant raise/promotion.
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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by remomnyc » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:00 pm

At my firm, only COLA increases annually. Raises only come with promotions (typically after 5+ yrs here and strong performance) and only if economy and company are strong at the time of the promotion. Same at my husband's firm. My husband got his first decent (multiple of COLA) raise since 2009 by threatening to leave. I always tell the junior people if they want a big bump, they need to leave.

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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by stoptothink » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:07 pm

njfastlife wrote:if you ask me, that's a bit long to wait - especially at the more junior level.

2 years with just COL raises, if that? just seems a bit slow, especially when you can jump ship to other companies after about the 1 year mark and probably get 10% without even trying.

your thoughts?


IMO, it is highly dependent on the industry. I am a director in a large niche health company. I was offered a pretty low starting salary for my position, with the acknowledgement that pay increases would be commensurate with my performance. Started last May and received a 10% raise and 3% one-time bonus at the end of the year. Am expecting a similar raise and larger bonus this December. My employees received anywhere from no raise to 10% plus one-time bonus, depending on performance.

My wife, on the other hand, is in tech sales. She's been in her position for nearly 2yrs now. There aren't raises period, it isn't even brought up during quarterly or year-end reviews. Some of her co-workers have been with the company since inception (I think circa 2009) and they still have the same base pay and all the members of the enterprise sales staff receive the same salary regardless of performance (or lack thereof). If you want a raise you go somewhere else, and being that it is in tech, people often do. Granted, salary is generally ~1/3 of her pay (for some co-workers, it is a much greater percentage than that).

FWIW, in my previous job, I received a grand total of 1% salary increase in 4yrs and this was only because I was identified by the CEO as one of 2 top performers (out of ~300 employees) for the previous year. No COLA, no bonuses - there are employees of that company who have been making the same wage for over a decade. No wonder I got out of public health.

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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by Slacker » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:11 pm

In order for me to get more than just a basic 2%,3% or 4% raise at the companies I've worked for I had to get an actual promotion with a new job title. Especially during the recession, I was one of the only guys at our small company (a little over 100 employees) who had received raises at all due to obtaining new job titles. The best I ever did was a 15% increase in pay with new title after having gone through 4 different titles, 3 different departments and 3 different positions.

Eventually, they had me just where they wanted me (middle management) with moderate pay and closed the door on further movements. They loved the way I ran my department and wouldn't let me go back to the technical side of the house so I jumped ship and immediately had a 33% percent raise. Now I make 90% more than I did previously at the small company with my current employer (doing a vastly different job) and I'm on track for another big promotion shortly.

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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by Traveler » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:18 pm

Sadly my experience is similar to others. Typical annual "merit increases" are in the 2.5-3.5% range. And for most it takes years to get a promotion. Having gone through bankruptcy at a megacorp with two large pay cuts, my expectations are probably not the norm because 3% isn't so bad relatively speaking.
Regarding someone two years in, are you doing the same job as when you started? Have you taken on more responsibility? Is the scope of your job broader? If not, why do you think you deserve a higher raise than anyone else? If so, have you asked for a raise and provided your manager with explicit reasons and examples of why one is warranted?

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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by Slacker » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:18 pm

Just to add further details to my story, I earned about 35% raises from starting salary to ending salary at employer #1 over 7 years.
I've earned 54% raises from starting salary to current salary at employer #2 over 4 years.

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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by Bungo » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:25 pm

This is surely dependent on industry and location. In Silicon Valley, there are many jobs available, and employers have to give good raises if they want to retain good employees. I've never had less than a 5% raise in 20+ years of working as a software engineer, and I would find another job if an employer tried to freeze my salary or offer only a token 1-2% raise. If you're somewhere like Detroit, this may not be possible. The key is to live where there is significantly more demand than supply for your skills. You may have to relocate to achieve this, but if you are at an early stage in your career, that's not a great hardship, and the opportunity cost of not doing so can be enormous, both financially and in terms of job satisfaction.

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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by HomerJ » Thu Sep 08, 2016 12:32 pm

njfastlife wrote:if you ask me, that's a bit long to wait - especially at the more junior level.

2 years with just COL raises, if that? just seems a bit slow, especially when you can jump ship to other companies after about the 1 year mark and probably get 10% without even trying.

your thoughts?


In my experience (I'm in IT), I have found the ONLY way to get good raises is to change companies. Even promotions in the same company rarely pay you market price.

I wouldn't say someone deserves a big raise every year though. 2-3 years between promotions seems normal to me.

You don't want to become a job hopper. If you've had 5 jobs in 6 years, it's going to be harder to get someone to hire you at that next job. At some point, you need to stay on for a while.

Me, I switched companies every 5 years or so... Got 30%+ raises every time, because my skill set had increased dramatically, but each company I was at was terrible at giving out raises. Instead, I'd leave, and they would end up hiring someone (with zero institutional knowledge) at the same salary that would have kept me there.

I don't understand mega-corp employee policies at all.

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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by Dulocracy » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:47 pm

It depends on the position. With a litigation attorney, we train our attorneys. This is a process that takes a year for them to be functional and two years for them to be what we really want. For that reason, we do not give significant raises until the second year. (Also, for what we do, an attorney that stays with a company fewer than two years will often be seen as a job hopper. If they have several two year stints, they will likewise be seen as a job hopper.

In my wife's job at a marketing company, turnover is much higher. She got a good raise after one year (greater than COL), but it was not a huge raise. They have made it clear that she is a highly valued member of the team.
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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by Spirit Rider » Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:55 pm

Bungo wrote:This is surely dependent on industry and location. In Silicon Valley, there are many jobs available, and employers have to give good raises if they want to retain good employees.

Then again some of us wouldn't ever consider taking a job in Silicon Valley. I have been offered positions in Silicon Valley with 30% - 50% increases over my current salary. Then I looked at the cost of housing somewhere within a one hour commute. To get something like my current house would have cost 300% - 400% more.

It isn't just Detroit, but probably 90%+ of the country that has nominal raises. I'll take my much lower COL, no income tax, no sales tax, 15 minute commute any day.

Think of it like this. It is because not enough of us want to live there that restrains the supply and gives you the leverage to get higher salaries/raises. Feel free to send some of it my way as thanks.

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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by corwin » Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:12 pm

My company only give raises (other than COL) for promotions and market adjustments. A market adjustment is a raise to a group or class of employees when we realize we are significantly underpaying them. This is usually brought to our attention by a number of people leaving.

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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by Spirit Rider » Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:22 pm

HomerJ wrote:I don't understand mega-corp employee policies at all.

It is pure mathematics. You have 10 employees making $100K, that is $1M. With a turnover rate of 20% and the new hires cost you 15% more. That is 8 * $100K = $800K + (2* $115K = $230K) = only $1.03M

The reality is that lemmings stay [(removed) -- admin LadyGeek] while wanderers go. Behavioral truth is that people don't like change. Most people have a built in bias against changing jobs. Attrition rates are relatively inelastic, but somewhat subject job market conditions. This is just like home/auto insurance. Companies count on you not comparing rates and overpaying for decades.

I have been in raise pool discussions and they have this down to a science. They use projections of the attrition rate based on market salaries and different raise points. They factor the cost of new hires (higher salary, training, lost productivity, etc...) at different attrition rates.

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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by leonard » Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:44 pm

njfastlife wrote:if you ask me, that's a bit long to wait - especially at the more junior level.

2 years with just COL raises, if that? just seems a bit slow, especially when you can jump ship to other companies after about the 1 year mark and probably get 10% without even trying.

your thoughts?


Negotiate.
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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by Bungo » Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:50 pm

Spirit Rider wrote:It isn't just Detroit, but probably 90%+ of the country that has nominal raises. I'll take my much lower COL, no income tax, no sales tax, 15 minute commute any day.

Nothing wrong with that - I hope to retire in such a place myself. (If you don't mind my asking, where do you get no income tax and no sales tax?) I just wanted to add a voice of dissent, that no, it is emphatically not typical to wait 24 months for a meaningful raise at work, if you're willing to move somewhere that has a more robust job market in your field.

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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by BHUser27 » Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:48 pm

Responders have covered a lot of good ground.

Other factors to consider:
Company ownership model (private, private equity, public, etc)
Financial performance and objectives.
Job competition in your local market.
Some combination of above.

It may not matter if you are the highest performer in the company or whether your boss believes you deserve a raise or not. Unfortunately, the financial objectives of a private equity 'flipper' or boss with eyes on an IPO can easily override any logically justified reasons you should get a raise. Additionally, if the company feels you are trapped (nowhere else for you to work locally) or your job is in high demand (others waiting in line) then things get even murkier.

As other have said, build your case and ask for a raise. Ask again. If no love, then consider jumping ship.

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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by Lindrobe » Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:35 pm

You need to leave. I think of all of my jobs now as "temporary" jobs and have no plans to stay at any single employer for more than 3 years. I have absolutely no loyalty to any employer. It's not personal, it's business.

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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by HomerJ » Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:40 pm

Spirit Rider wrote:
HomerJ wrote:I don't understand mega-corp employee policies at all.

It is pure mathematics. You have 10 employees making $100K, that is $1M. With a turnover rate of 20% and the new hires cost you 15% more. That is 8 * $100K = $800K + (2* $115K = $230K) = only $1.03M

The reality is that lemmings stay [(removed) -- admin LadyGeek] while wanderers go. Behavioral truth is that people don't like change. Most people have a built in bias against changing jobs. Attrition rates are relatively inelastic, but somewhat subject job market conditions. This is just like home/auto insurance. Companies count on you not comparing rates and overpaying for decades.

I have been in raise pool discussions and they have this down to a science. They use projections of the attrition rate based on market salaries and different raise points. They factor the cost of new hires (higher salary, training, lost productivity, etc...) at different attrition rates.


What you say makes sense, but the good people are, in general, the ones that leave. The bad ones don't have the skills or the confidence to look. And new people coming in, even if good, don't have all the knowledge of the business that the old person had.

I can understand the numbers... Easier to just pay everyone $100k, and yeah, a few people may leave... But, maybe, just maybe... managers could actually do their job and try to identify the top 20% performers and pay them more, so they don't leave.

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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by itstoomuch » Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:59 pm

DS recommended a phD hire from big software, 2015. The person was hired. He stayed 2 months and jumped to AMZN.
Everyone was kinda of frustrated but it may have done a lot of good for his company.
2016, DS got a 3% raise (max merit) and then got a 10% catchup raise.
In tech, you gotta pay to play.
YMMV
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MrKnight
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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by MrKnight » Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:03 pm

CoL raises is pretty standard outside of industries or businesses that have very structured promotion schedules. You will have to move to get your market worth is usually.

I believe that prior to the financial crisis it used to be a bit different with promotions and higher raises being more normal, but my experience only extends to the financial crisis so I can't speak from experience.

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badbreath
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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by badbreath » Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:56 pm

i usually get 3-5% every 3 to 4 years then have a year when I get 8-10%. Usually that year is the when the company is doing bad so the bonus is reduced and instead of a 150% bonus I get 100% but the others get only 50%
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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by aceoperations » Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:56 pm

I have heard of people who have left megacorps just because they did not get bonuses for a couple of years, in spite of getting CoL raises. This concept was alien to me when I worked for a company that did not even give out bonuses. I was happy with CoL raises. Later, my company started handing out bonuses anyway. A better offer showed up with higher base pay, RSUs, and higher annual bonus percentage. Needless to say, I took it.

Grogs
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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by Grogs » Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:37 am

Our company has a very tightly controlled system of pay scales and promotions, and I would guess that any two people with about the same amount of time, experience, and ratings will be within a few percent on salary. Basically one hires in at, say, level 2 and starts at around 90% of the midpoint for that level. Every January we get a raise that's typically in the 3-4% level, and the midpoint level increases by 2% or so. Average employees will get another 3-4% increase in July every other year or so. Those are designed so that one will catch up to the midpoint salary after about 5 years, and then they'll be eligible for a promotion which comes with a large enough bump in pay (5-10%) to reach about 90% of the midpoint of the next level, and the process starts again. The only real difference between the superstars and the marginal employees is that the superstars will get more frequent July increases and reach the midpoint in 4 years, and the marginal ones might get no July raises and require 8-10 years to reach that point.

I think a lot of the reason our system is so structured is because there aren't a lot of arbitrage opportunities to be had in our area (research) by jumping around. Most comparable facilities share a similar pay structure, and the alternatives are academia, government service, or becoming a private contractor. Only the last option has an opportunity for a large increase in pay, but it obviously comes with a lot of potential risk.

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gunn_show
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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by gunn_show » Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:33 pm

sunny_socal wrote:I've seen many people wallow in the same job grade for 8-10 years and still have no hope for a raise or promotion. Loyalty means little these days and it is not explicitly rewarded. To get a promotion @ my Megacorp requires the following stars to align:
- Several years of consistently high performance. A blemish on that record for any reason is enough to torpedo the effort.
- A recent high profile achievement, usually a 6-12 month task that was done at level above current job grade
- Visibility to higher level management. The promo reviews feature several layers of management and if none of them have heard about the individual they fall in the "draft pick" order
- Favor in the eyes of the Boss^2. It doesn't matter the first level of management is convinced an employee should get a promo, the level above must also be convinced.


Agree with all of this, pertaining to megacorp and moving up the ladder/raises/promotions. Has been spot on for me, after getting a nice raise and grade promotion this year. But I was tops on the team last year, very vocal and visible to executive levels, and showed great results on my review.

To the OP question, this is really a generic post with no information to really answer your question. What field are you in, what state, are you the best or worst at your job.. so many variables in these types of questions, and you provided none of the material to base an answer on. Based on your post I have no clue what you deserve at all. Posting online doesn't help much, you should have a candid conversation with your boss. How did your performance review go this year? Both your results on it, and the feedback from management?

If you don't ask, use leverage, use negotiation skills in combination with top-flight performance ... you get bottom of the barrel results (ie COLA)
"I love competition. And I want to win." R. Murdoch

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Watty
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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by Watty » Sat Sep 10, 2016 3:40 pm

One thing to try to understand is how salaries are set at your company.

I am not an HR guru but some companies have target salaries and salary bands for each pay grade, for example a given position may have a have a target salary of $75,000 with a salary band of $70,000 to $80,000 where it would take an exceptional situation to pay someone outside the salary band for that position.

The HR department will often pay consultants or service companies to help establish the details of the pay grades for each position. This may be a surprisingly formal process at large companies since the company needs to be able defend how they set the salaries if there is a discrimination lawsuit.

Some companies are very open about this and the details are readily available and in your salary review you might even see a reference to you being at something like 90% of your pay grade, in this example that would be $79,000. Other companies will treat this like a big secret and not disclose the details of their pay structures. At some companies the manager can officially or unofficially talk about this with their employees.

It would be good to talk to your manager about the process they use to set your salary to see if he or she will give you more details of how it works there.

It could be that you were hired at a very high percentage of your pay-grade so there is not room to give you a raise until you are promoted to a higher pay-grade. If you are at something like 50% of your salary band asking for a pay raise to get higher in the salary band is easier to justify.

If you do get another job offer then you can ask the next employer about their process and where you would be in the salary band before you accept a job offer.

The formal job descriptions of something like a Clerk 1 or Clerk 2 job will specify just what the difference is to qualify for each of those position. That is what the HR department would have used in setting the pay grades for those positions. Referring to those to try justify a promotion is a valid thing to do to and it is not uncommon that companies will try to incorrectly classify people in the lower paid position.

There are situations where being paid more is fully justified for multiple reasons but there is just not money in the budget to pay more. In those situations you would need to eventually move on to a different job. You could also be qualified for a promotion but there are no job openings to promote you to.

One other thing to look at in the decision to move to a different company is that you may not be fully vested with any 401K match if you leave after just a few years so you could lose some or all of an employer match. When you are looking at the vesting dates be sure to look at the details of how it is calculated, it could be based on the date you became eligible for the employer match, not your employment date. You do not want to accidentally leave a week before you would have been vested for more of the employer match.

The new company may also have a waiting period before you can start in their 401k or get their employer match so you may have a period of time in the new job when you will take a hit on your 401k savings.

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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by Ninnie » Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:11 pm

If the employer match isn't vested, what happens to those 401k funds. Spouse left a few months ago and the funds seem to just be sitting there in the 401k.

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ClevrChico
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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by ClevrChico » Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:39 pm

Very typical, probably longer. As others said, you need smart job hopping to do better. Or, spend the extra effort on a side hustle instead.

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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by random_walker_77 » Fri Sep 16, 2016 9:59 pm

Bungo wrote:
Spirit Rider wrote:It isn't just Detroit, but probably 90%+ of the country that has nominal raises. I'll take my much lower COL, no income tax, no sales tax, 15 minute commute any day.

Nothing wrong with that - I hope to retire in such a place myself. (If you don't mind my asking, where do you get no income tax and no sales tax?) I just wanted to add a voice of dissent, that no, it is emphatically not typical to wait 24 months for a meaningful raise at work, if you're willing to move somewhere that has a more robust job market in your field.


I'm guessing Vancouver, Washington? No income tax in WA state, and no sales tax in Portland, just a short drive across the river.

Another possibility is Alaska

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Re: Is it typical to wait ~24 months for a meaningful/significant raise at work?

Post by Spirit Rider » Fri Sep 16, 2016 10:10 pm

Ninnie wrote:If the employer match isn't vested, what happens to those 401k funds. Spouse left a few months ago and the funds seem to just be sitting there in the 401k.

Typically, those funds sit there until the specified time period for rehire rights. Rehire rights allow you to resume your vesting period for non-vested funds if you are rehired within a certain time period.

After the period the non-vested funds are forfeited. Those forfeited funds are either contributed proportionally to participants, or more often are used to cover plan expenses.

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