Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
leonard
Posts: 5993
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:56 am

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby leonard » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:01 pm

Lot's of advice - I'll add a few points.

Do you have a non-compete, non-disclosure? If so, re-read it and understand it. This can make a huge difference on how your resign.

1. Be prepared to be walked out at any time - including immediately after telling your boss. You might consider very discretely, perhaps the night before, getting your stuff packed and out of the office. BTW - this is precisely why people should NOT have 20 pictures, 2 plants, and their beany baby collection at work. Not saying you do.

2. I'd offer more transition time than 2 weeks if I had the time. Leaves everyone on good terms, particularly coworkers that may take on your responsibilities.

3. Get the information to rollover 401k's and other accounts so that you can do this immediately.

4. Don't send a letter or email to your manager or HR that is your resignation. Let your manager or HR take the initiative to tell you if they need proof of resignation. Then, make a judgement call as to whether you want to provide what they request. I don't see any real benefit to you for providing such information, I only see it appearing in some future legal proceeding. I don't see that you benefit.

5. People will ask, so have a 2-3 word answer where you are going. They don't benefit from knowing. And, if anyone is feeling disgruntled about you leaving - knowing where you are going may be an opportunity for them to do something. If there's a non-compete - they may interpret it very broadly and try to stop you move. They may know someone at the other company and spread some misinformation and gossip. Either way, it simply doesn't benefit you to go in to detail.

6. Don't sign anything. If you are presented with something to sign and you think you might actually need to sign it, you should have it reviewed by an employment lawyer.
Leonard | | Market Timing: Do you seriously think you can predict the future? What else do the voices tell you? | | If employees weren't taking jobs with bad 401k's, bad 401k's wouldn't exist.

DoubleClick
Posts: 362
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:12 am

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby DoubleClick » Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:57 pm

Mike83 wrote:I will add this, which is in the keep-it-classy realm.


All advice here has been very helpful, but this post contained particularly wise guidance, thank you!
Last edited by DoubleClick on Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DoubleClick
Posts: 362
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:12 am

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby DoubleClick » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:00 pm

leonard wrote:4. Don't send a letter or email to your manager or HR that is your resignation. Let your manager or HR take the initiative to tell you if they need proof of resignation. Then, make a judgement call as to whether you want to provide what they request. I don't see any real benefit to you for providing such information, I only see it appearing in some future legal proceeding. I don't see that you benefit


I'm confused: this seems to go against what many others have said and what seems to be general advice, that a letter should be sent to HR and manager ASAP. Would you mind saying more on this?

DoubleClick
Posts: 362
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:12 am

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby DoubleClick » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:26 pm

leonard wrote:3. Get the information to rollover 401k's and other accounts so that you can do this immediately


Can a 401k rollover be done at any arbitrary time in the future, for example, one year from now? The new employer accept an incoming roll over at any time?

User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 38163
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby LadyGeek » Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:04 pm

DoubleClick wrote:
leonard wrote:3. Get the information to rollover 401k's and other accounts so that you can do this immediately


Can a 401k rollover be done at any arbitrary time in the future, for example, one year from now? The new employer accept an incoming roll over at any time?

The information will be in your new employer's 401(k) summary plan description. Once you make the transition, you can call them and confirm the details.

Before you make a decision, get the full details which are only available after you join - fund availability, expense ratios, and the plan provider's AUM fees. The info will be on the 401(k) plan provider's website.
To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

leonard
Posts: 5993
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:56 am

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby leonard » Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:07 pm

DoubleClick wrote:
leonard wrote:4. Don't send a letter or email to your manager or HR that is your resignation. Let your manager or HR take the initiative to tell you if they need proof of resignation. Then, make a judgement call as to whether you want to provide what they request. I don't see any real benefit to you for providing such information, I only see it appearing in some future legal proceeding. I don't see that you benefit


I'm confused: this seems to go against what many others have said and what seems to be general advice, that a letter should be sent to HR and manager ASAP. Would you mind saying more on this?


I'll put this back in your court.

What specific benefit do you derive from providing the written notification? I don't see anything that benefits you. So, in situations like this I recommend not doing anything beyond what is necessary - cause it doesn't benefit you. And, who knows what the downside is? No benefit - I wouldn't do it when leaving a job.

Essentially, in all communication and action around resigning - I would never do anything unless it is absolutely necessary and then only if there was a clear and mitigated benefit to the situation.

BTW - not just talking out of school - I worked in HR for a fortune 5 software company.
Leonard | | | | Market Timing: Do you seriously think you can predict the future? What else do the voices tell you? | | | | If employees weren't taking jobs with bad 401k's, bad 401k's wouldn't exist.

leonard
Posts: 5993
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:56 am

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby leonard » Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:12 pm

DoubleClick wrote:
leonard wrote:3. Get the information to rollover 401k's and other accounts so that you can do this immediately


Can a 401k rollover be done at any arbitrary time in the future, for example, one year from now? The new employer accept an incoming roll over at any time?


Unless your new employer's 401k is exceptional (or you have some specific legal need to protect assets) - I'd get in the habit of automatically rolling old 401k's to your established TIRA/Roth IRA's held at VG, Fidelity or another low cost provider with access to low cost index funds. It's very rare that a company 401k provides better options and lower costs than your IRA would.

And, I'll plead a bit paranoid on this piece of advice - get the money roll over initiated immediately. First, companies and TPA can be very, very slow to process the rollover. Second, don't give anyone in your old company time to decide to drag their feet or contest this in anyway. The sooner your balance is out of the company's 401k - the sooner you have a clean break and no dependencies.
Leonard | | | | Market Timing: Do you seriously think you can predict the future? What else do the voices tell you? | | | | If employees weren't taking jobs with bad 401k's, bad 401k's wouldn't exist.

TravelGeek
Posts: 897
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:23 pm

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby TravelGeek » Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:33 pm

leonard wrote:BTW - not just talking out of school - I worked in HR for a fortune 5 software company.


You make me curious - has that Fortune 5 software company taken a resignation letter (email, more likely) and used it against the employee? I am just not seeing what harm a basic letter stating simply the fact that I am resigning effective such-and-such date could possibly cause. I'd probably tell my boss verbally, but when asked for that email, I am not sure how I could even argue that I won't do that.

leonard
Posts: 5993
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:56 am

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby leonard » Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:48 pm

TravelGeek wrote:
leonard wrote:BTW - not just talking out of school - I worked in HR for a fortune 5 software company.


You make me curious - has that Fortune 5 software company taken a resignation letter (email, more likely) and used it against the employee? I am just not seeing what harm a basic letter stating simply the fact that I am resigning effective such-and-such date could possibly cause. I'd probably tell my boss verbally, but when asked for that email, I am not sure how I could even argue that I won't do that.


If it doesn't benefit you, why do it just because you are "just not seeing what harm"? Why not focus on what actually aids you in that situation? There are lot's of things that wouldn't do harm in that situation - it doesn't necessarily follow that you should do all of them.

I am not saying to categorically not do it. I am saying let them initiate what they consider to be necessary notification of resignation. And, then, one should weigh whether or not to provide it.
Leonard | | | | Market Timing: Do you seriously think you can predict the future? What else do the voices tell you? | | | | If employees weren't taking jobs with bad 401k's, bad 401k's wouldn't exist.

TravelGeek
Posts: 897
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:23 pm

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby TravelGeek » Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:01 pm

leonard wrote:If it doesn't benefit you, why do it just because you are "just not seeing what harm"? Why not focus on what actually aids you in that situation? There are lot's of things that wouldn't do harm in that situation - it doesn't necessarily follow that you should do all of them.

I am not saying to categorically not do it. I am saying let them initiate what they consider to be necessary notification of resignation. And, then, one should weigh whether or not to provide it.


Retaining a good relationship with my soon-to-be-former manager might be beneficial to me. So getting into an argument on whether I will send that particular email or not is probably not helpful in that regard.

Otherwise I might just not even bother giving advance notice at all (how is that beneficial to me?) and just one night clean out my office and not show the next day.

leonard
Posts: 5993
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:56 am

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby leonard » Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:05 pm

TravelGeek wrote:
leonard wrote:If it doesn't benefit you, why do it just because you are "just not seeing what harm"? Why not focus on what actually aids you in that situation? There are lot's of things that wouldn't do harm in that situation - it doesn't necessarily follow that you should do all of them.

I am not saying to categorically not do it. I am saying let them initiate what they consider to be necessary notification of resignation. And, then, one should weigh whether or not to provide it.


Retaining a good relationship with my soon-to-be-former manager might be beneficial to me. So getting into an argument on whether I will send that particular email or not is probably not helpful in that regard.

Otherwise I might just not even bother giving advance notice at all (how is that beneficial to me?) and just one night clean out my office and not show the next day.


So, I think you know you are creating a straw man when you characterize this as "getting into an argument". I never said to do that. In fact, I said to let the employer indicate what they consider to be reasonable notification and then weight whether to meet that. You created the get in an argument out of - well - nothing that I said.

I'll stop there. You've restructured my argument to straw. If you want to give it another go and actually deal with what I wrote - I'd be happy to provide my perspective.
Leonard | | | | Market Timing: Do you seriously think you can predict the future? What else do the voices tell you? | | | | If employees weren't taking jobs with bad 401k's, bad 401k's wouldn't exist.

KlangFool
Posts: 5778
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby KlangFool » Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:38 pm

leonard wrote:
DoubleClick wrote:
leonard wrote:4. Don't send a letter or email to your manager or HR that is your resignation. Let your manager or HR take the initiative to tell you if they need proof of resignation. Then, make a judgement call as to whether you want to provide what they request. I don't see any real benefit to you for providing such information, I only see it appearing in some future legal proceeding. I don't see that you benefit


I'm confused: this seems to go against what many others have said and what seems to be general advice, that a letter should be sent to HR and manager ASAP. Would you mind saying more on this?


I'll put this back in your court.

What specific benefit do you derive from providing the written notification? I don't see anything that benefits you.


leonard,

It is an officially documented notification. If OP did not do this, the employer / HR can claim that a notification was never given.

<< I am saying let them initiate what they consider to be necessary notification of resignation.>>

Whatever they consider being necessary is for their own benefit. As an employee, I need to do whatever necessary and sufficient for myself.

I worked long enough to know that HR does not have the employees' best interest in mind. You as an HR professional had proven my point again with your posts.

KlangFool

User avatar
DaftInvestor
Posts: 2331
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:11 am

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby DaftInvestor » Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:59 pm

KlangFool wrote:
leonard wrote:
DoubleClick wrote:
leonard wrote:4. Don't send a letter or email to your manager or HR that is your resignation. Let your manager or HR take the initiative to tell you if they need proof of resignation. Then, make a judgement call as to whether you want to provide what they request. I don't see any real benefit to you for providing such information, I only see it appearing in some future legal proceeding. I don't see that you benefit


I'm confused: this seems to go against what many others have said and what seems to be general advice, that a letter should be sent to HR and manager ASAP. Would you mind saying more on this?


I'll put this back in your court.

What specific benefit do you derive from providing the written notification? I don't see anything that benefits you.


leonard,

It is an officially documented notification. If OP did not do this, the employer / HR can claim that a notification was never given.

<< I am saying let them initiate what they consider to be necessary notification of resignation.>>

Whatever they consider being necessary is for their own benefit. As an employee, I need to do whatever necessary and sufficient for myself.

I worked long enough to know that HR does not have the employees' best interest in mind. You as an HR professional had proven my point again with your posts.

KlangFool



OP: it is definitely in your best interest to submit your two weeks notice in writing. It doesn't have to be a letter - it can be an email to your manager with HR on cc (If an email make sure you print out or save off a copy). Email is a legal correspondence. Keep it short and sweet without detai ("Have enjoyed working here but have decided on a career change at this time" type of message). With most companies as soon as you give a verbal they will ask for a written anyway. The written notice allows you to have a record that you gave notice and unless you put something crazy in it (thus keep it short and sweet) there is really no negative action they can take based upon it.

leonard
Posts: 5993
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:56 am

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby leonard » Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:03 pm

KlangFool wrote:
leonard wrote:
DoubleClick wrote:
leonard wrote:4. Don't send a letter or email to your manager or HR that is your resignation. Let your manager or HR take the initiative to tell you if they need proof of resignation. Then, make a judgement call as to whether you want to provide what they request. I don't see any real benefit to you for providing such information, I only see it appearing in some future legal proceeding. I don't see that you benefit


I'm confused: this seems to go against what many others have said and what seems to be general advice, that a letter should be sent to HR and manager ASAP. Would you mind saying more on this?


I'll put this back in your court.

What specific benefit do you derive from providing the written notification? I don't see anything that benefits you.


leonard,

It is an officially documented notification. If OP did not do this, the employer / HR can claim that a notification was never given.

<< I am saying let them initiate what they consider to be necessary notification of resignation.>>

Whatever they consider being necessary is for their own benefit. As an employee, I need to do whatever necessary and sufficient for myself.

I worked long enough to know that HR does not have the employees' best interest in mind. You as an HR professional had proven my point again with your posts.

KlangFool


Again, intentionally misrepresenting what I said. And, I have actually worked in Finance more than HR - not really an HR professional in the sense of Generalist. But, very familiar with how that area works do to working in it.

BTW - giving HR as little as possible is in the OP's interest.

Twisting this as me advocating poor choices by employees that benefit HR as a function (as if their's a secret cabal that connects all HR) is just strange.
Last edited by leonard on Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Leonard | | | | Market Timing: Do you seriously think you can predict the future? What else do the voices tell you? | | | | If employees weren't taking jobs with bad 401k's, bad 401k's wouldn't exist.

DoubleClick
Posts: 362
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:12 am

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby DoubleClick » Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:05 pm

Thanks, DaftInvestor!

leonard
Posts: 5993
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:56 am

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby leonard » Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:06 pm

Blindly following convention seems the message here.

OP has my point of view. I am out of this thread.
Leonard | | | | Market Timing: Do you seriously think you can predict the future? What else do the voices tell you? | | | | If employees weren't taking jobs with bad 401k's, bad 401k's wouldn't exist.

DoubleClick
Posts: 362
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:12 am

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby DoubleClick » Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:09 pm

Can a 401k rollover be done at any arbitrary time in the future, for example, one year from now? Do all new employers accept an incoming roll over at any time?

User avatar
DaftInvestor
Posts: 2331
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:11 am

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby DaftInvestor » Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:10 pm

leonard wrote:BTW - giving HR as little as possible is in the OP's interest.


This doesn't mean you shouldn't put your resignation in writing it means you should keep it short and to the point.
If the OP wants to return to the same company 8 years later the first thing the company does (or at least every sensible company I worked for does) is check the employer files for history of performance as well as why he/she left and whether notice was given. Did the employee leave on good terms or not. Lack of a resignation letter tells the person checking that the leave may have been sudden or not of the employees choosing. After 8 years people don't remember or people have changed - your file is part of the material that decides whether or not you will be hired back. A nicely written letter in the employees file helps / does not hurt / in this situation.

User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 38163
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby LadyGeek » Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:14 pm

DoubleClick wrote:Can a 401k rollover be done at any arbitrary time in the future, for example, one year from now? Do all new employers accept an incoming roll over at any time?

Did my earlier post answer your question? (If you missed the post, don't worry about it.)

If a 401(k) plan provider accepts rollovers now, but stops accepting rollovers in the future, they will have to update their summary plan description. You'll get notice in advance of when this will happen.

LadyGeek wrote:
DoubleClick wrote:
leonard wrote:3. Get the information to rollover 401k's and other accounts so that you can do this immediately


Can a 401k rollover be done at any arbitrary time in the future, for example, one year from now? The new employer accept an incoming roll over at any time?

The information will be in your new employer's 401(k) summary plan description. Once you make the transition, you can call them and confirm the details.

Before you make a decision, get the full details which are only available after you join - fund availability, expense ratios, and the plan provider's AUM fees. The info will be on the 401(k) plan provider's website.
To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

DoubleClick
Posts: 362
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:12 am

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby DoubleClick » Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:20 pm

LadyGeek wrote:Did my earlier post answer your question? (If you missed the post, don't worry about it.)


I did indeed miss your earlier post somehow! Thanks for re-posting, and yes, that answers my question :).

TravelGeek
Posts: 897
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:23 pm

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby TravelGeek » Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:27 pm

leonard wrote:
So, I think you know you are creating a straw man when you characterize this as "getting into an argument". I never said to do that. In fact, I said to let the employer indicate what they consider to be reasonable notification and then weight whether to meet that. You created the get in an argument out of - well - nothing that I said.



Me: hi boss, a really good opportunity has come up and I would like to give notice. Last day is in two weeks.

boss: uh... Anything I can do to change your mind?

Me: nope, made up my mind.

boss: ok, sorry to hear, this is a big loss for us, but thanks for all the good work. I will need a brief email declaring the resignation and your desired last day at work.

Option 1:

Me: why?

boss: it's our process, HR wants it

Me: don't see how that is beneficial to me

Boss: [(removed) --admin LadyGeek] You still work for us. Write that email. This is an order.

...

Option 2:

Me: sure thing. Will send it right away

boss: thanks, let's have a good bye lunch with the team next week. Everyone will be sad to see you leave.

...

----

BTW - not just talking out of school - I worked as a manager and employee for a fortune X software company (X being a small number). All my conversations with me as the boss have followed option #2

KlangFool
Posts: 5778
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby KlangFool » Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:54 pm

TravelGeek wrote:
leonard wrote:
So, I think you know you are creating a straw man when you characterize this as "getting into an argument". I never said to do that. In fact, I said to let the employer indicate what they consider to be reasonable notification and then weight whether to meet that. You created the get in an argument out of - well - nothing that I said.



Me: hi boss, a really good opportunity has come up and I would like to give notice. Last day is in two weeks.

boss: uh... Anything I can do to change your mind?

Me: nope, made up my mind.

boss: ok, sorry to hear, this is a big loss for us, but thanks for all the good work. I will need a brief email declaring the resignation and your desired last day at work.

Option 1:

Me: why?

boss: it's our process, HR wants it

Me: don't see how that is beneficial to me

Boss: [(removed) --admin LadyGeek] You still work for us. Write that email. This is an order.

...

Option 2:

Me: sure thing. Will send it right away

boss: thanks, let's have a good bye lunch with the team next week. Everyone will be sad to see you leave.

...

----

BTW - not just talking out of school - I worked as a manager and employee for a fortune X software company (X being a small number). All my conversations with me as the boss have followed option #2


+1

Option 3:

Boss / HR: Just leave in 2 weeks and you do not need to send email or anything??

Me: [(removed) --admin LadyGeek]

Is Leonard claiming that doing nothing is okay in option 3?


KlangFool

User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 38163
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby LadyGeek » Fri Sep 02, 2016 6:29 pm

I edited a few posts. As a reminder, let's keep the language "family-friendly". Hint: It's a 3-letter acronym. Regardless, it's the intent that counts.

Please stay focused on "best practices". The discussion is starting to get derailed.
To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

TropikThunder
Posts: 414
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:41 pm

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby TropikThunder » Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:22 pm

DaftInvestor wrote:
leonard wrote:BTW - giving HR as little as possible is in the OP's interest.


This doesn't mean you shouldn't put your resignation in writing it means you should keep it short and to the point.
If the OP wants to return to the same company 8 years later the first thing the company does (or at least every sensible company I worked for does) is check the employer files for history of performance as well as why he/she left and whether notice was given. Did the employee leave on good terms or not. Lack of a resignation letter tells the person checking that the leave may have been sudden or not of the employees choosing. After 8 years people don't remember or people have changed - your file is part of the material that decides whether or not you will be hired back. A nicely written letter in the employees file helps / does not hurt / in this situation.


I agree with DaftInvestor. Every job I have had in the last 20 years has limited their background/reference check responses to prospective employers, often by handing that off to third party verification services. Also, many (most?) corporations prohibit supervisors and managers from providing professional references (personal references, yes; professional, no) due to liability concerns (I know IBM does this). All they will say is start date, end date, salary, and eligible for rehire (yes/no). I would imagine leaving without proper notice would yield a "no" as to whether I was eligible for re-hire.

And, as they say, I don't see how that provides a benefit to me.

DoubleClick
Posts: 362
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:12 am

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby DoubleClick » Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:20 pm

I think it's been established that giving written notice is the way to go.

As LadyGeek said, it would be nice to now focus on other best practices. I'd rather the written notice issue not derail what has been an excellent thread :).

KlangFool
Posts: 5778
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby KlangFool » Sat Sep 03, 2016 6:28 am

DoubleClick wrote:I think it's been established that giving written notice is the way to go.

As LadyGeek said, it would be nice to now focus on other best practices. I'd rather the written notice issue not derail what has been an excellent thread :).


DoubleClick,

1) Send an email out to thank everyone and provide your personal email address to your co-workers before your leave the company.

2) After you leave and started work with the new employer, wait at least one month before contacting any of your former co-workers.

3) After one month, send an email to your former boss and co-workers to inform them where you landed if you are in good relationship with them.

KlangFool

User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 38163
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby LadyGeek » Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:15 am

^^^ When I resigned my previous position, I did include a personal email address in my "Thanks, it's been nice to work with you" email. Over a month or so later, I haven't heard from anyone. OTOH, I didn't like my co-workers and won't maintain contact with them.

Tip: Don't give them the same email address you use for friends and family. Create a new account for this purpose, or give them one you use for spam - you can always give someone a better email address later.

I created an email address name that looked like it came from a random password generator, e.g. 12345absc@example.com.

Since I didn't like them, this level of difficulty was at the right level. I gave them an email address, but no one will take the effort to contact me unless they really want to.
To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

goonie
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 7:33 pm

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby goonie » Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:38 am

Anybody ever ask their manager (or manager's manager) if you can use them as a reference in the future? I've forgotten to do this in the past but it might be a good thing to do before walking out the door.

bmelikia
Posts: 517
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:23 pm

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby bmelikia » Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:27 am

simplesimon wrote:Two weeks. I have a friend who tried to give the company longer and they actually cut him that day.


My last day at my company is this coming Friday - September 9th

I gave a verbal 3.5 week notice, as well as a formalized letter of resignation stating the same thing.

The head boss of the entire company wanted me gone as soon as possible because he figured that it would be a distraction to the other employees if I stayed on with the company for that time.

Ultimately, after a conversation with HR, it will be a "physical" 2.5 weeks and a compensated 3.5 weeks period of time before I am officially off their books.

I would have never imagined that the response I received was what I got. I thought I was being respectful to my boss and the company by giving advanced notice. If I had it to do over again I would have just given the standard 2 weeks notice.
"I would rather die with money, than live without it...." - Bogleheads member Ron | | "The greatest enemy of a good plan, is the dream of a perfect plan." | -Bogle

User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 38163
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby LadyGeek » Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:26 pm

goonie wrote:Anybody ever ask their manager (or manager's manager) if you can use them as a reference in the future? I've forgotten to do this in the past but it might be a good thing to do before walking out the door.

The only situation in which I asked for a reference was when a prior employer was closing the plant. Everyone was leaving, not of their own choice, so we were all helping each other to find jobs. I later found another job within the same company, different physical location.

Aside from that, I don't think this is a good idea.
To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

KlangFool
Posts: 5778
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby KlangFool » Sat Sep 03, 2016 1:03 pm

goonie wrote:Anybody ever ask their manager (or manager's manager) if you can use them as a reference in the future? I've forgotten to do this in the past but it might be a good thing to do before walking out the door.


goonie,

In this day and age, we do this via LinkedIn.

A) Is the person willing to be connected to you via LinkedIn?

B) Is the person willing to write a recommendation for you on LinkedIn?

KlangFool

goonie
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 7:33 pm

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby goonie » Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:32 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
goonie wrote:Anybody ever ask their manager (or manager's manager) if you can use them as a reference in the future? I've forgotten to do this in the past but it might be a good thing to do before walking out the door.

The only situation in which I asked for a reference was when a prior employer was closing the plant. Everyone was leaving, not of their own choice, so we were all helping each other to find jobs. I later found another job within the same company, different physical location.

Aside from that, I don't think this is a good idea.


Why wouldn't it be a good idea? I'm not trying to be difficult - just trying to understand. I can't think of why this would be harmful.

goonie
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri May 31, 2013 7:33 pm

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby goonie » Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:36 pm

KlangFool wrote:
goonie wrote:Anybody ever ask their manager (or manager's manager) if you can use them as a reference in the future? I've forgotten to do this in the past but it might be a good thing to do before walking out the door.


goonie,

In this day and age, we do this via LinkedIn.

A) Is the person willing to be connected to you via LinkedIn?

B) Is the person willing to write a recommendation for you on LinkedIn?

KlangFool


I guess I just thought it would be better to ask them in person while you still have the opportunity.

Mudpuppy
Posts: 4985
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:26 am
Location: Sunny California

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby Mudpuppy » Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:42 pm

DoubleClick wrote:
fareastwarriors wrote:I know it's customary for to give a 2-weeks notice. But is it really enough time for the employer/team side?

I work in a team of 4 total and we are really busy. If team member quits and give me us only 2 weeks, we would have to scramble and suffer for a long while before we can get a replacement.... It takes longer than 2 weeks here just to have the job description approve for external distribution.

I hope my team members give longer notices when they leave or retire...


This is closer to my group's situation. I think a longer notice will be appreciated, so I'll consider this.

If the company needs longer notice, it would be built into your contract. I am in a permanent state employee position. My contract clearly specifies the notice I must give if I'm not returning for the next fiscal year. It is substantially longer than 2 weeks (more on the order of months), due to the time it takes to get job descriptions approved and posted at my agency. The agency likewise has to give me similar notice if my position is being eliminated due to budget cuts, so the contract does go both ways.

But government wheels turn much slower than corporate ones. If the corporation needs longer notice, it would be in your employment contract. If you're an at-will employee, then 2 weeks is fine and is customary. When I left my corporate job to go to grad school full-time, I left instruction guides and cross-trained another employee during my 2 weeks of notice. Documenting your job tasks may be just as critical as trying to train someone.

And do let your co-workers know what is going on soon after you inform your boss. It's just the friendly thing to do. I'm in a management position in my group. My boss left in June, but she just told her boss, and her boss told everyone through a division-wide email. My boss didn't let any of us managers know what was going on, or even say good-bye at the next managers' meeting. We felt a little broad-sided by the whole deal. We understood why she was leaving, but it could have been handled with more finesse.

tnr
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:36 pm

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby tnr » Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:47 pm

After I left my previous company, the only people I would use as a reference are the people who I worked with that have also left or retired. I saw too many examples of people who left my previous company after doing good work have their reputations trashed by untrue inuendos and outright falsehoods. They left therefore they were "not good enough to cut it" , "couldn't deal with colleagues", etc. etc. Managers were the worst offenders.

KlangFool
Posts: 5778
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby KlangFool » Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:55 pm

goonie wrote:
I guess I just thought it would be better to ask them in person while you still have the opportunity.


goonie,

The people that I used for reference is the kind of people,

A) Willing to connect to me via Linkedin

B) I can call them up to ask them to act as my reference even when I no longer work with them.

So, I do not understand your point of view. Why would you ask someone for your reference if you cannot be sure that they are willing to go the extra mile for you?

By the way, nowaday, people use their Linkedin network to check you out. Ditto, I do the same thing to check my potential employer, interviewer and so on.

KlangFool

Former Usher
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:21 am

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby Former Usher » Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:57 pm

Mudpuppy wrote:
If the corporation needs longer notice, it would be in your employment contract. If you're an at-will employee, then 2 weeks is fine and is customary.


That's what I would have thought, and yet my prior employer was dismayed when I only gave two weeks notice. Apparently, their expectations were four weeks, even for non-management positions. Strangely, they thought it was perfectly acceptable to cut my pay 30% with only two weeks notice. That's a main reason why they are my former employer. :happy

Still, two weeks seems the standard. If your manager is on-site, speak with your manager first and let him/her know that you have accepted a new position. If they ask for a resignation letter, I don't see the harm. They would likely only expect a single sentence documenting that you are resigning and what your last day is.

If they push for an exit interview, just express how much you appreciated your opportunity to work there and how much you've learned. Don't give them any reason to reject you just in case you ever wish to return.

KlangFool
Posts: 5778
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby KlangFool » Sat Sep 03, 2016 5:02 pm

tnr wrote:After I left my previous company, the only people I would use as a reference are the people who I worked with that have also left or retired. I saw too many examples of people who left my previous company after doing good work have their reputations trashed by untrue inuendos and outright falsehoods. They left therefore they were "not good enough to cut it" , "couldn't deal with colleagues", etc. etc. Managers were the worst offenders.


tnr,

1) Why would anyone care about comments / statement from people that lied consistently?

2) A more common problem is people that do good work choose not to tell anyone about it. Hence, they can be hurt by lies since nobody knows what they had done.

3) Yes, there is a problem telling people what you can do and had done due to non-disclosure. Hence, if possible, please file and get some patents issued with your employer. Those are public pieces of information.

KlangFool

tnr
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:36 pm

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby tnr » Sat Sep 03, 2016 6:00 pm

Klang:

I was responding to the person who wondered about asking former colleagues as references. I just wanted to warn people that once you leave, how management perceived you could be drastically different than what was told to your face. I wouldn't trust my former mgmt under any circumstances.

User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 38163
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby LadyGeek » Sat Sep 03, 2016 6:37 pm

Former Usher wrote:...If they push for an exit interview, just express how much you appreciated your opportunity to work there and how much you've learned. Don't give them any reason to reject you just in case you ever wish to return.

^^^ This. Consider this is an excellent opportunity for the company to get competitive info. Here's what they'll ask and what they mean:

- Where are you going? - We want to know who are competitors are, the marketing guys would love to know that. Our lawyers would also like to know, as you could be working for our competitor (we decide who the competitors are, you don't).

- What's your new salary? - How much less can we pay our employees here?

My company does not do exit interviews any more. Or at the very least, I wasn't important enough for them to spend the time.
To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

KlangFool
Posts: 5778
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby KlangFool » Sat Sep 03, 2016 7:46 pm

tnr wrote:Klang:

I was responding to the person who wondered about asking former colleagues as references. I just wanted to warn people that once you leave, how management perceived you could be drastically different than what was told to your face. I wouldn't trust my former mgmt under any circumstances.


tnr,

1) If someone is not willing to publicly give me a good recommendation on Linkedin, why would I want to use the person as the reference?

2) I do not think any of my former management has a good enough reputation for people to care what they think.

<< I was responding to the person who wondered about asking former colleagues as references.>>

3) What goes around, comes around. I worked for an employer that laid off 80% of its employee. So, pretty much everyone in my circle had been laid off a few times. We all need help and have to help out sometimes. When you work in an industry where annual laid off is the norm, people learn to be helpful or do not survive.

KlangFool

KlangFool
Posts: 5778
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby KlangFool » Sat Sep 03, 2016 7:49 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
Former Usher wrote:...If they push for an exit interview, just express how much you appreciated your opportunity to work there and how much you've learned. Don't give them any reason to reject you just in case you ever wish to return.

^^^ This. Consider this is an excellent opportunity for the company to get competitive info. Here's what they'll ask and what they mean:

- Where are you going? - We want to know who are competitors are, the marketing guys would love to know that. Our lawyers would also like to know, as you could be working for our competitor (we decide who the competitors are, you don't).

- What's your new salary? - How much less can we pay our employees here?

My company does not do exit interviews any more. Or at the very least, I wasn't important enough for them to spend the time.


LadyGeek,

+1

Why would I as an outgoing employee want to say anything in an exit interview?

KlangFool

Former Usher
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:21 am

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby Former Usher » Sat Sep 03, 2016 8:44 pm

KlangFool wrote:
Why would I as an outgoing employee want to say anything in an exit interview?

KlangFool


When I left my first professional job, I (admittedly naively) thought the purpose of the exit interview was to process my exit paperwork and explain when certain benefits ended, what happens with my 401k, etc. Instead the HR rep was looking for gossip, and I wasn't fully prepared to deflect the questions. That's why I felt it worthwhile to mention here.

KlangFool
Posts: 5778
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby KlangFool » Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:54 am

Former Usher wrote:
KlangFool wrote:
Why would I as an outgoing employee want to say anything in an exit interview?

KlangFool


When I left my first professional job, I (admittedly naively) thought the purpose of the exit interview was to process my exit paperwork and explain when certain benefits ended, what happens with my 401k, etc. Instead the HR rep was looking for gossip, and I wasn't fully prepared to deflect the questions. That's why I felt it worthwhile to mention here.


Former Usher,

You should put your answer in the context of your experience. That would be very useful to many. For example, the additional information provided by the above post is very useful.

KlangFool

Jags4186
Posts: 938
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:12 pm

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby Jags4186 » Thu May 18, 2017 4:47 pm

Hi everyone I figured I'd revive this thread instead of posting a new one.

I have accepted a job and my start date will be June 19. I am scheduled for vacation the week of Memorial Day and figured I would come back on Monday June 5 and give my two weeks notice. After talking to a few people, it seems like the consensus is split--some say it's a crappy thing to do and would burn bridges, other's say don't risk losing your vacation (company's policy is to not pay out any accrued time upon departure whether voluntary or involuntary). I also have a few doctor bills coming in soon and I would like to use my Health Reimbursement Account to pay for them. I figure 4 weeks is enough time for them to come through.

So the question is....is it a burning bridge scenario to go on vacation and then give two weeks notice on first day back? The company has been good to me (and in fact I fished for a counter offer about 16 months ago and received it) and I like my coworkers and boss. I just got a very good offer elsewhere.

btenny
Posts: 3930
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:47 pm

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby btenny » Thu May 18, 2017 6:17 pm

No you are not burning bridges IMO. But there is always someone unhappy when a person quits. So you will likely find your boss or his boss is not too pleased. Especially if they find out that you planned to quit and then did not tell them until after you took 2 weeks vacation.

I am also not sure of the gov't/HR rules if they just walk you out the door the day you give notice and not pay you the extra two weeks from that date. I suspect they could say you already had your two weeks by taking vacation. But others may correct me on this detail.

Good Luck.

User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 38163
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby LadyGeek » Thu May 18, 2017 6:20 pm

Jags4186 wrote:I also have a few doctor bills coming in soon and I would like to use my Health Reimbursement Account to pay for them.

Is that a Health savings account or Flexible spending arrangement?

If it's the latter, you are permitted to expense up to the limit of your election amount, regardless of how much you've contributed to date.
To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

Jags4186
Posts: 938
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:12 pm

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby Jags4186 » Thu May 18, 2017 6:51 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
Jags4186 wrote:I also have a few doctor bills coming in soon and I would like to use my Health Reimbursement Account to pay for them.

Is that a Health savings account or Flexible spending arrangement?

If it's the latter, you are permitted to expense up to the limit of your election amount, regardless of how much you've contributed to date.


It is a Health Reimbursement Arrangement.

Jags4186
Posts: 938
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:12 pm

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby Jags4186 » Thu May 18, 2017 6:52 pm

btenny wrote:No you are not burning bridges IMO. But there is always someone unhappy when a person quits. So you will likely find your boss or his boss is not too pleased. Especially if they find out that you planned to quit and then did not tell them until after you took 2 weeks vacation.

I am also not sure of the gov't/HR rules if they just walk you out the door the day you give notice and not pay you the extra two weeks from that date. I suspect they could say you already had your two weeks by taking vacation. But others may correct me on this detail.

Good Luck.


Just to clarify--I am taking 1 week vacation that I've had scheduled for 6 months. It is really just a 4 day vacation because we have Memorial Day off. I would come back on June 5 and then stay and work until June 16.

User avatar
bligh
Posts: 356
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:13 pm

Re: Resigning from a job: best practices and advice?

Postby bligh » Thu May 18, 2017 7:12 pm

DoubleClick wrote:So I've lined up a new job and want to resign from my current job.

I'm in tech, and in perhaps between a lower and a mid-level position. I'm leaving for career growth and pay. I really don't want to burn bridges, since in tech, it's not unusual to come back to a company one left, or to bump into people elsewhere. In fact, I want to leave on the smoothest, friendliest, and most professional note possible. With that in mind:

1) Should I stick with the two-week notice or give 3-4 weeks? They'd have to scramble to find a replacement for me, and I'd like to minimize their trouble since the company has been good to me. What are the risks to giving a longer notice?

2) What should I say is the reason, to keep it as smooth as possible?

3) How do I broach this topic with my manager? Literally, what words can I use? It is an "announcement"? Decision? News?

4) Should I avoid mentioning where I'm going? (Edit: I'm not going to a competitor or anything like that)

5) Any other tips for how to handle it, before, after, etc.? Eg: When is the best time to inform my co-workers?

Thank you!


1) Ask them how much time they need and think is reasonable. You can negotiate it down ofcourse, but work with them. Tell them you will also be available to help after you leave. Answer questions etc. You can tell them you will bill them at an hourly rate similar to your pay. Not trying to rip them off, just help support them until they can replace you.

2) Honestly. Tell them you feel you have maxed out your potential at this company. Tell them how you want 10 years of experience, not the same 1 year of experience over and over again for 10 years. Tell them about the pay and tell them about the growth. Tell them you love the team, the company and a lot of things and will miss it, but you want to take some risks and are also really excited about the new position. You aren't rage quitting. "Hey Boss.. I need to have a chat. Last week I accepted an offer from X and Y company. I want you to know that it wasn't because I was unhappy with my job.. it was (insert honest positive description here) .. but I really want to (insert honest positive reason for leaving). "

3) Tell them where you are going and why.

4) The longer you wait to inform them the more shady it gets.


Return to “Personal Finance (Not Investing)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: antiqueman, grabiner, Hiker-Biker, Independent George, need403bhelp, theplayer11, TropikThunder, Yahoo [Bot] and 70 guests