Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

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parigi723
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 6:42 am

Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by parigi723 »

Hello everyone:
With the prices of dental maintenance keep going up, I was thinking of looking for dental insurance.
Your opinion is much appreciated.........Looking forward to your replies,parigi.
ScottW999
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by ScottW999 »

Retired dentist here. There are no good dental insurance plans. If you require expensive procedures you are out of luck since all plans have annual maximums, usually between 1,000 and 2,500 per year. So coverage is limited. If you just need routine maintenance, the insurance premiums will usually be more than what your dental charges would be. The only scenario which works is if you get the dental insurance for free as part of an insurance package from your employer. Otherwise self insurance is the way to go, imho.
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Toons
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by Toons »

Although this is not insurance,
Coast to Coast offers dental discounts on Dental Services.
I was fortunate in that our local dentist is a participant.
I just printed out the card and presented it to the dentist.
The only cost was a little ,
printer ink and paper :happy

http://coast2coastrx.com/index.php/more ... ental-plan
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee
joebh
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by joebh »

ScottW999 wrote:There are no good dental insurance plans.
I agree. There are no dental insurance plans that are good deals and not offered through an employer.

Instead, look for ways to reduce your costs.

Shop dentists in your area. Some offer discounts for paying in cash and/or senior citizen discounts.
If you are near a dental school, consider having your routine maintenance work done at their clinic.
Check out http://www.hhs.gov/answers/health-care/ ... index.html
knicknut
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by knicknut »

Even my employer-sponsored one, which in general has generous benefits, I only break even if I have at least two cavities in a year (with the same low cap that doesn't provide a lot of relief for large issues). I can't imagine any ones you can purchase in the market would do any better.
westie
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by westie »

Retired. Was told by dentist among others things that I needed a root canal last fall. Joined a federal plan for this year, cost $90 a month. Cut the costs more than half for root canal, crown, and some fillings. Has 25K ceiling for the year. My plan is to get everything done by end of year so I won't do the insurance again next year. It's more than paid what I've paid in premiums.
dependapotamus
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by dependapotamus »

When I had to buy dental insurance on the open market it worked out financially to essentially being a pre-pay program. I dropped it after two years. Now I get coverage provided for free through my wife's residency program, but when that goes away I'll just pay cash as I go.
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midareff
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by midareff »

Toons wrote:Although this is not insurance,
Coast to Coast offers dental discounts on Dental Services.
I was fortunate in that our local dentist is a participant.
I just printed out the card and presented it to the dentist.
The only cost was a little ,
printer ink and paper :happy

http://coast2coastrx.com/index.php/more ... ental-plan

Aetna has/d a plan called Vital Savings which isn't insurance but does have participating dentist offer a discount. My periodontist was on the plan the two years my wife and I needed implants but went off after that. Other than him, who I had been with 20 years, I could not find anyone other than a clinic staffed by ... how shall I say, less experienced professionals. I let it lapse. This is a field where skill is much more important to me than price.
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SpringMan
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by SpringMan »

I self insure and agree no dental insurance is worthwhile unless it is provided by your employer. One consolation is at income tax time I have been able to itemize because of high dental expenses. If not for dental expenses we would be taking the standard deduction. Some dentist will give discounts for cash, maybe 10%. Otherwise I use a cash back credit card. Being able to afford dental in our old age is a good problem to have, not that I won't whine about it. :happy
Best Wishes, SpringMan
jakepeters
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by jakepeters »

joebh wrote:
ScottW999 wrote:There are no good dental insurance plans.
I agree. There are no dental insurance plans that are good deals and not offered through an employer.

Instead, look for ways to reduce your costs.

Shop dentists in your area. Some offer discounts for paying in cash and/or senior citizen discounts.
If you are near a dental school, consider having your routine maintenance work done at their clinic.
Check out http://www.hhs.gov/answers/health-care/ ... index.html
I will pile on in the agree.

As nicknut said, you maybe can "break even" on insurance only if you need some work over-and-above your (bi-) annual cleanings.

For me & my wife (with company-provided plans from 4 different companies in 2 different states over the past few years), I find that the break-even is with the 2 cleanings per year.

But, the big benefit I have found is that, if you do need some additional work, the pre-negotiated price for the work (from the insurance compan) is much better than the "rack rate."

Maybe you are a better negotiator than me, but I have tried negotiating simple cavities and the insurance-negotiated price was much better. In the case of braces, the discount on the insurance-negotiated price easily paid for 3-4 years of premiums.

Now, if you don't need any extra work very often, it may not pencil out, even at non-negotiated prices.

I'm temporarily on a COBRA plan now, and the only reason is that my wife is in the middle of some extended ortho work. As others have said, non-employer plans (which COBRA prices are, at least for my area), it is quite hard to see paying $800-1000/year for $1000/year (OK, per person) of max coverage.

JP
dbr
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by dbr »

I have the impression the primary benefit is the pre-negotiated rate. Perhaps I am mistaken.
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bertilak
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by bertilak »

ScottW999 wrote:Retired dentist here. There are no good dental insurance plans. If you require expensive procedures you are out of luck since all plans have annual maximums, usually between 1,000 and 2,500 per year. So coverage is limited. If you just need routine maintenance, the insurance premiums will usually be more than what your dental charges would be. The only scenario which works is if you get the dental insurance for free as part of an insurance package from your employer. Otherwise self insurance is the way to go, imho.
Toons wrote:Although this is not insurance,
Coast to Coast offers dental discounts on Dental Services.
I was fortunate in that our local dentist is a participant.
I just printed out the card and presented it to the dentist.
The only cost was a little ,
printer ink and paper :happy

http://coast2coastrx.com/index.php/more ... ental-plan
Thanks to both of you. I gave up trying to find a reasonable dental plan. I feel better knowing it's not just me!

I used to go with what was supplied by my employer but now that I am retired, and also on Medicare, they no longer provide this coverage, instead they simply give me money to cover medical expenses. I now need to buy my own insurance with that money. I could find NO dental plan that looked like it was worth the money. Seemed it was a narrow sweet spot where benefits beat costs without going over some limit. I settled on self-insuring.

I printed out that card and will give it a try. The web page does say my dentist participates, along with dozens of others in the local area.
May neither drought nor rain nor blizzard disturb the joy juice in your gizzard. -- Squire Omar Barker (aka S.O.B.), the Cowboy Poet
PennySaved
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by PennySaved »

I found also that the dental insurance was break even for the routine visits involve cleaning. But then I never know when I would need additional work done (replace fillings or crowns), and then having the insurance saved me some. I get the dental insurance through the Federal employee plans. I pay for it all myself through payroll deductions, but the amount I contribute to the insurance is not taxed, just like my payments for the health insurance. Thus I am saving 25% Federal and 5.75% state taxes on the income used for the dental insurance. So it is not exactly break-even, but I view it as getting a 30.75% discount on my routine dental work. So this is another reason I keep the insurance. Whatever insurance does not pay, I can get reimbursed from my Flexible Savings Account. I would not be able to take normal medical deductions for these expenses on my Federal income tax because I would not exceed the threshold.
Northern Flicker
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by Northern Flicker »

If you have any self-employment or active/earned 1099 income, dental insurance premiums are fully deductible, whereas dental expenses are just part of the health expense itemized deduction. That is one scenario where it can be well worth it to prepay for services through a dental insurance premium.

On the other hand, dental expenses are HSA-eligible, but dental premiums are not, so it would be advantageous not to have dental insurance if you will fund the care with HSA assets.
Last edited by Northern Flicker on Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
BTV
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by BTV »

This is not a typical solution, but something to consider, if you enjoy traveling ... you can have your dental work done overseas. Obviously this is not a solution in emergency situations, and you need to be comfortable with foreign settings, possibly language issues ... but for planned "projects" that tend to be uniformly ridiculously expensive in the US you may find that you can save much more than just the price of a plane ticket. And if you enjoy travel anyway, this may work out to be the perfect solution. Specifically I had some work done in Czech Republic, and not only did that save a bundle, but I find that quality is better, the setting is more comfortable, cleaner, better more modern equipment. I find dentists in the US to be quite a bit behind, although it could just be my local issue.
technovelist
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by technovelist »

We have a dental plan that pays for preventive care, e.g., 2 cleanings per year and one set of x-rays every year.
The premium for both of us is $33/month, which is basically what we would pay for the cleanings otherwise.
But the negotiated rates for additional cleanings and any other needed work is where we clean up (so to speak).
We get at least one more cleaning a year, which is $59 at the negotiated rate and $99 rack rate, so that saves us $80/year.
And I do need crowns on occasion. Last year, I needed a crown that would have been $1200 without this insurance, and was $600 with it (approximately).
Our old dental insurance (through my former employer) would have paid 1/2 of the total rate, or $600, and we would have had to pay the rest, or $600.
So I'm pretty sure that the insurance is a good deal.
In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, they often differ.
joebh
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by joebh »

technovelist wrote:We have a dental plan that pays for preventive care, e.g., 2 cleanings per year and one set of x-rays every year.
The premium for both of us is $33/month, which is basically what we would pay for the cleanings otherwise.

So I'm pretty sure that the insurance is a good deal.
So why don't you indicate the plan so the OP can look into it?
technovelist
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by technovelist »

joebh wrote:
technovelist wrote:We have a dental plan that pays for preventive care, e.g., 2 cleanings per year and one set of x-rays every year.
The premium for both of us is $33/month, which is basically what we would pay for the cleanings otherwise.

So I'm pretty sure that the insurance is a good deal.
So why don't you indicate the plan so the OP can look into it?
I'm not sure he can get this one, but it is "Dental PPO-CIGNA DPPO Advantage, Diagnostic and Preventive Care".
In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, they often differ.
Super Hans
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by Super Hans »

The premium for my dental plan through FedVIP (not employer subsidized) is less than the cost of two routine checkups/cleanings. The plan pays these visits, plus x-rays as often as annually, at 100%. My dentist gives the carrier more than a 50% discount but didn't budge in my gentle efforts to negotiate a cash discount.
Rattlesnake
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by Rattlesnake »

3 years retired... I have not found one that is worth the cost... I pay as I go...

Just my $0.02....
9th Infantry Division LRRP (Ranger) | 1968-69
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fandango
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by fandango »

Usually they are not worth it unless your employer pays most of the cost.

In the private insurance arena, you are sometimes restricted to a dentist in your network. When I checked, these were mostly large dental practices with a lot of new dentists (dentists in a box).

The more established dentists would not take the lower rates required by the dental insurance companies.
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catdude
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by catdude »

I'm retired and get dental insurance thru my ex-employer. My share of the premiums is $10 a month. I guess I'm lucky, but I don't always feel that way. I'm fortunate if the insurance company will pay half the cost of major work (root canals, crowns, etc.). BCBS pays almost all of my medical costs, so why can't the dental insurance company do the same?
catdude | | All generalizations are false, including this one.
inbox788
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by inbox788 »

fandango wrote:Usually they are not worth it unless your employer pays most of the cost.
Even then it's really not worth it. Employers who pay addional costs for benefits must take it out of somewhere, and a share of that comes from reduced salaries and other benefits. If the dental plan is decent, it's likely to be costly. Or it's a very inexpensive plan for the employer and doesn't provide much coverage. Additionally, the overhead of selling and administering the plan winds up taking a big chunk if not majority of the premiums and not to compensate the dentists. And dentists who don't get good compensation from the plans find ways to make up for the low rates of payment, which may be raising prices or pushing other more profitable services.
Vision benefits suffer the same economics. While these dental and vision benefits sound good, I've come to believe that they're not worth it and we'd be better off without them entirely. Just because someone else pays for it doesn't make it good for society.
BackOfTheNet
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by BackOfTheNet »

Super Hans wrote:The premium for my dental plan through FedVIP (not employer subsidized) is less than the cost of two routine checkups/cleanings. The plan pays these visits, plus x-rays as often as annually, at 100%. My dentist gives the carrier more than a 50% discount but didn't budge in my gentle efforts to negotiate a cash discount.
Same here. 4 people in our family and we pay $702 per year for FedVIP coverage. Figure 8 cleanings per year at $90 each and it already pays for itself.
mr_breen
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by mr_breen »

I had a Cigna dental plan for the last 2 years that cost me $38/month for one person. I had no employer coverage option, so I had to buy this plan on the private market and pay the premium completely out of pocket.

I finally dropped it this month after I did a calculation and realized it just didn't make sense financially. I did 2 cleanings a year, yearly bite wings, and a few fillings. The plan had a $50 deductible. I was paying more in premiums than I was getting in benefits. Even when I figured in the In-Network discount, it still didn't work out for me.

I was initially leery about dropping the plan, though, because I was worried about needing a dental specialist at some point. The plan had a max payout of $1000/year, but it had a wide network of specialists. The In-network discount on an expensive dental specialty procedure can be significant. So, I was concerned about losing that In-Network discount.

Then I had an idea. What if I drop coverage and if I need an expensive procedure, I can just get a new plan and then get the procedure using the new insurance. So, I called a few plans and asked if that was doable. Dental Dental's sales plan sales reps told me that their plans have a waiting period of 6 months to one year for most procedures. But, they did say that if I get the plan, I can still get the in-network discount even though the plan won't pay for the procedure.

So, with that information, I decided it's worth the risk of dropping all coverage. If my dentist recommends I get an expensive procedure, I will just sign up for a new plan and get the procedure done with an in-network specialist and then just drop the coverage again.

BTW, if for some reason, you think this won't work, please let me know.
2015
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by 2015 »

Anyone have experience with this plan:

https://www1.careington.com/members/hea ... ionp.shtml
WasabiOsbourne
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by WasabiOsbourne »

i think anything where people join individually has adverse selection and is at best just administration cost pass-thru.

basically you pay $1200 a year for the package.. and you hope that you can get 10%-20% more than that in dental work - obviously very standard work.

so you pay the insurance co $1200 per year and hope everything works out for you to get that money back later - or maybe they do the claim automatically when you are at office....... but still, just pay the dentist the money.

if you need lots of expensive work done, realze that any insurance plan for that would be 100% populated by people like yourself.

whereas if you have group coverage through work and you need alot of dental work done then the people with good teeth or who don't go dilligently are paying for your work. but that's a group plan where it's involuntary and there are hundreds or thousands of blended indviduals.
jsaz
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by jsaz »

I am a member of the Carrington Discount Program which is NOT an Insurance program. Members are charged an annual or other fee, I think about $100. You go to any dentist that agrees to accept the Carrington prices which are a significant discount to "rack prices". You pay the dentist directly the discount price. I don't have significant dental needs but even with three per year cleaning I'm saving enough to pay the annual fee. My regular dentist was/is a participating dentist. I'm very satisfied with the reduced prices Carrington has negotiated. www.carrington.com/co/sca
soboggled
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by soboggled »

My guess is that then only ones likely to save you significant money are those offered to Federal employees. The rest of us are out of luck.
I do get the impression - someone may choose to correct me - that as a general rule the best dentists often don't accept insurance.
technovelist
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by technovelist »

soboggled wrote:My guess is that then only ones likely to save you significant money are those offered to Federal employees. The rest of us are out of luck.
I do get the impression - someone may choose to correct me - that as a general rule the best dentists often don't accept insurance.
I can't answer for the general rule, but we have an excellent dentist and he accepts the Cigna dental plan that I mentioned earlier.
In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, they often differ.
pshonore
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by pshonore »

westie wrote:Retired. Was told by dentist among others things that I needed a root canal last fall. Joined a federal plan for this year, cost $90 a month. Cut the costs more than half for root canal, crown, and some fillings. Has 25K ceiling for the year. My plan is to get everything done by end of year so I won't do the insurance again next year. It's more than paid what I've paid in premiums.
Are you sure about that 25K yearly limit? I've never heard of a plan with a limit that high. Also, the expensive work (crowns, implants, etc) usually have a 50% co-pay
aquaman
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Re: Are there any dental insurance worthwhile?????

Post by aquaman »

pshonore wrote:Are you sure about that 25K yearly limit? I've never heard of a plan with a limit that high. Also, the expensive work (crowns, implants, etc) usually have a 50% co-pay
This wasn't addressed to me, but you can review the details of all federal dental plans here: https://www.opm.gov/healthcare-insuranc ... formation/
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