Picking College and College Scholarships

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Big Dog
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by Big Dog » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:41 pm

The UC's love out of state students bcos they expect them to be full pay. All-in, Cal would cost you $60k/year. (Not big on merit in this state.) Cannot recommend unless money is no object.

itstoomuch
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by itstoomuch » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:57 pm

timmy wrote:Started booking late Winter/ Spring (hooray for warmer weather) college tours.
[...snip]
U of Chicago (physics) ... He's loving physics class and math these days
[...snip]
Napa Valley for Mom and Dad while kids hang at hotel

My older bro, attended one of your probable schools. He started out in Physics, then Math, and ended up in Economics. Eventually got a pHd at another school, courtesy of USGov (depths of Cold War).
It's all about possible future payoff of our "economic choices" :twisted: .
:mrgreen:
Rev90517; 4 Incm stream buckets: SS+pension; dfr'd GLWB VA & FI anntys, by time & $$ laddered; Discretionary; Rentals. LTCi. Own, not asset. Tax 25%. Early SS. FundRatio (FR) >1.1 67/70yo

timmy
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:52 pm

Upcoming visits:

University of Chicago, for physics and math, showing interest in economics, so possible double major?

Notre Dame

Stanford

Berkeley - considering passing, not a big fan the HIGH PC culture (not looking to start political debate, personal/ family judgement)

Not planned yet:

Need to book flights to LA (tons of good schools)

Other:

Looking at summer engineering programs

SAT test

Talking to every Senior we can - taking notes :happy

Bfwolf
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by Bfwolf » Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:06 pm

timmy wrote:Upcoming visits:

University of Chicago, for physics and math, showing interest in economics, so possible double major?

Notre Dame

Stanford

Berkeley - considering passing, not a big fan the HIGH PC culture (not looking to start political debate, personal/ family judgement)

Not planned yet:

Need to book flights to LA (tons of good schools)

Other:

Looking at summer engineering programs

SAT test

Talking to every Senior we can - taking notes :happy


Since you live in Illinois, I'm not really sure why you'd have Berkeley or other top public schools (besides U of I) on the list. I went there and had a good experience, but why pay private school prices for a public school education? You'll get more services from a school like Stanford or other similar private schools.

VaR
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by VaR » Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:21 pm

I think a lot depends on what your son wants to do, how he learns, and where he needs to go to be challenged.

Here are some random observations:
1. I think the main thing is to be able to go somewhere where both the curriculum, the professors, and your peers challenge you. As Klang said, you don't want to end up somewhere where you're not going to be able to keep up, but OTOH, you don't want to end up somewhere where everything is too easy because you're going to be paying a lot of money for nothing.
2. I went from being a big fish in a small pond to a big fish in a big pond. It was totally worth having peers who could keep up with me and even show me up. There were even some who I could see were way beyond me, intellectually. This was an important lesson. At work now, I see some fellows who never learned this lesson and as a result, think they know better than everyone else. This has hurt them - and has hurt their engineering.
3. For specific engineering programs, there really is a big different between the top 20% or so and the remaining 80%, but within that top 20% it's usually what you put into it vs what the program can provide.
4. I didn't graduate in the department that I thought I would. So I advise being careful before selecting a "one trick pony" school. You want to go somewhere where you can get a good education in any of the departments you might ultimately select for your major.
5. I do think my school opened doors for me and ultimate paid off in providing me both great career opportunities and "a foot in the door" to giant multinationals where it got me noticed enough to get the interview that allowed me to shine.
6. There was a big fight in my family about sending me to private school vs state school.

malabargold
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by malabargold » Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:35 pm

For the very top tier schools, perfect, or near-perfect, test
scores and grades have very little meaning other than it clears the first and coarsest screen.

The real competition for admission starts after this preliminary hurdle.

gips
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by gips » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:31 pm

timmy wrote:Upcoming visits:
University of Chicago, for physics and math, showing interest in economics, so possible double major?
Notre Dame
Stanford
Berkeley - considering passing, not a big fan the HIGH PC culture (not looking to start political debate, personal/ family judgement)
Not planned yet:
Need to book flights to LA (tons of good schools)
Other:
Looking at summer engineering programs
SAT test
Talking to every Senior we can - taking notes :happy


long time college confidential member here.

- I too am baffled by your plan. if your son is accepted to say stanford and MIT, are you going to let him attend? if not, there is no reason to visit or apply...you're wasting money and setting his expectations incorrectly.
- at some point, you need to have a conversation with your son about how much money you're willing to spend. Best to have that conversation sooner rather than later.
- there's no reason to spend money on a plane ticket now. Wait until you have his standardized test scores.
- there's no reason to spend money for plane tickets to schools that don't consider interest (check CDS). For example, wash U is famous for wanting kids to visit. MIT doesn't care. I let my kids choose one school (or area) to visit by plane. Everywhere else was a car visit (or we'd swing by on family vacation). We did let them visit candidate schools after being admitted.
- Best to start thinking about how your son is going to differentiate himself at top schools (if he applies). They can fill their class four times over with similar stats kids who play an instrument, sports and have service hours.
- there's a thread on college confidential parents forum on schools w good merit aid. Worth browsing.
- Your son needs a set of financial safeties. It's more important (and harder) to identify a safety he loves than five reach schools he loves. And if you don't realize it yet, mit and stanford are reach schools for your son (and for everyone else).
- You should build a list of financial safeties, matches and reaches.
- early admissions (as opposed to early decision) is a great tool. All my kids applied ea to a number of schools. When admitted ea to a match, we eliminated the safeties. saved on application fees and cushioned the blow to their psyche for coming rejections.
- While I agree with klangfool and others that pedigree doesn't effect outcome for engineering compensation, personally I pay up for a top school since a) I can afford it and b) I'd like them to have the "college experience" I didn't. For example, my son attends university of michigan oos and obviously, the experience is very different than say university of buffalo. My D will attend an ivy in the fall and, as others have pointed out, if she moves from stem to liberal arts, the school brand does indeed come into play.

good luck to you and your son!

Caduceus
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by Caduceus » Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:27 pm

I think the Ivy League and other super expensive schools are vastly over-rated (not sour grapes - I have multiple degrees from Ivy League schools myself).

Random thoughts:

In some cases, the better schools can actually afford to give better financial aid (larger endowments, better administrative support, etc.)

In some cases, the brand-name from a school like Harvard or Stanford will definitely pay off. If your child wants to go into finance/consulting/law/academia, having an undergrad degree from a HYPS+ really helps to get his foot in the door.

But the teaching isn't necessarily better at places like HYPS. In fact, I would argue that the teaching is usually worse at places like that. Most of the faculty there are rewarded for producing research, so their focus is on publications/grant-writing/conferences, etc. At other less prestigious schools, you get much better teachers. These are people who were usually trained at places like Harvard, and who then got academic jobs outside of Tier 1 schools. They are promoted/evaluated in large part on teaching ability.

Ultimately, I think there are very few professions for which not going to a top school will matter. If he's hell-bent on becoming an M&A Lawyer, I'd push him to attend Yale; if he wants to make it big in finance, sure, go to Harvard, etc. Otherwise, other things like where the school is located and how much the education will cost probably makes more of a difference.

gips
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by gips » Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:35 pm

Caduceus wrote:I think the Ivy League and other super expensive schools are vastly over-rated (not sour grapes - I have multiple degrees from Ivy League schools myself).
But the teaching isn't necessarily better at places like HYPS. In fact, I would argue that the teaching is usually worse at places like that. Most of the faculty there are rewarded for producing research, so their focus is on publications/grant-writing/conferences, etc.


it's publish or perish at second tier schools too. we really like the book Colleges that Change Lives. all the schools focus on teaching. A relatively unknown school like knox college produces a high number of phds. I wanted my D to look at kalamazoo (93% admit rate to med school). In the end, the lure of an ivy was too strong for her.

daveydoo
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by daveydoo » Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:07 am

gips wrote:I wanted my D to look at kalamazoo (93% admit rate to med school).


Know that these types of stats are often bogus. I recently met an excellent student at a large and prestigious state U whose school simply wouldn't "support" her application to professional school. So she couldn't apply. I think they do this to keep the denominator down and, hence, the grad school acceptance rate up.

timmy
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:19 pm

Hi. I think most of these points were hit on this long and winding thread ...

I too am baffled by your plan. if your son is accepted to say stanford and MIT, are you going to let him attend? if not, there is no reason to visit or apply...you're wasting money and setting his expectations incorrectly.


We have a budget. If he gets into MIT and the total cost is below our budget, let the magic happen. If not ... pass.

- at some point, you need to have a conversation with your son about how much money you're willing to spend. Best to have that conversation sooner rather than later.


Done :sharebeer

- there's no reason to spend money for plane tickets to schools that don't consider interest (check CDS). For example, wash U is famous for wanting kids to visit. MIT doesn't care. I let my kids choose one school (or area) to visit by plane. Everywhere else was a car visit (or we'd swing by on family vacation). We did let them visit candidate schools after being admitted.
- Best to start thinking about how your son is going to differentiate himself at top schools (if he applies). They can fill their class four times over with similar stats kids who play an instrument, sports and have service hours.


Fair ... to a point.

This is our oldest child, so these tours are an education for the family. We have found the visits eye opening.

The plane trip guideline is a personal choice. We can agree that getting on a plane or getting in a car consumes time and money. Bogleheads try to be wise in their use of resources.

- there's a thread on college confidential parents forum on schools w good merit aid. Worth browsing.


It is a great site.

- Your son needs a set of financial safeties. It's more important (and harder) to identify a safety he loves than five reach schools he loves. And if you don't realize it yet, mit and stanford are reach schools for your son (and for everyone else).
- You should build a list of financial safeties, matches and reaches.


Good idea.

We are being positive: MIT is his primary school. Stanford his safety. (For those west coasters, I'm only kidding, Stanford is his primary school. MIT his safety school.)

- early admissions (as opposed to early decision) is a great tool. All my kids applied ea to a number of schools. When admitted ea to a match, we eliminated the safeties. saved on application fees and cushioned the blow to their psyche for coming rejections.

We've heard that a few times. It makes sense.

Thank you for your thoughts!

VaR
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by VaR » Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:51 am

timmy wrote:We are being positive: MIT is his primary school. Stanford his safety. (For those west coasters, I'm only kidding, Stanford is his primary school. MIT his safety school.)

Wait, no, really, do you actually have a carefully selected acceptable safety school? I think you do from your original list.

I was extra conservative and had 3 safeties - UMich, Cornell and Brown. I would have been happy to attend any of those. Or did I have 4? I can't remember whether I applied to Berkeley... I ended up being accepted at all my top choices so it didn't matter, but things could have easily gone the other way and I am glad to have put in the extra work for the insurance.

FedGuy
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by FedGuy » Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:31 am

VaR wrote:I was extra conservative and had 3 safeties - UMich, Cornell and Brown.

I'm glad it worked out for you, but my mind boggles a bit at the thought of any Ivy League school being considered a "safety." I get that some Ivy League schools are more selective than others, but when you're playing at this level I've always understood the process to be closer to a lottery ticket than a sure thing. I know someone who was admitted to (and attended) Yale but didn't get into Brown, for example.

timmy
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:48 am

Wait, no, really, do you actually have a carefully selected acceptable safety school? I think you do from your original list.


The safety school list is long right now, for a few reasons. It includes schools that he'd get into and expect little money and some where he get a full ride (per our research/ best guess). We'll refine the list over the summer.

An interesting example is VALPO. It is not far. It is a good school (good rep, at least locally). As best we can tell, he'd get a full ride. Which would be nice. He's interested because he could double or triple major. He has been thinking Mechanical Eng/ Math/ Music. Or Econ instead of math, Or get an MBA (plus Mech and Music undergrad).

Anyway, this would not be possible (practical) at one of the bigger or IVY schools.

We also told him that we'd support him longer (grad school, oversees trip/ assignment) if he went to a free/ low cost school. This caught his attention. Meaning, if he goes to MIT and we pay $50K per year, we are done at year-4. If he goes to school for free, we can talk .,.

VaR
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by VaR » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:00 am

FedGuy wrote:my mind boggles a bit at the thought of any Ivy League school being considered a "safety."

Heh, I'm just winding up the Brown graduates here. But really, it was a while ago back when Brown's acceptance rate was in the low 20% range and Cornell something like 30%-40%. This was when HYPS were in the low 10% range.

timmy wrote:We also told him that we'd support him longer (grad school, oversees trip/ assignment) if he went to a free/ low cost school.

I'd go for the paid undergraduate education and pay my own way through grad school.
1. Undergraduate is a sure thing and I think quality has a big impact here.
2. Who knows whether he's going to want to go to grad school and fundind is easier to get at the graduate level, isn't it?

timmy
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:11 pm

Visited U of Notre Dame today.

Plus:

Beautiful campus.

Liked the size of the campus and student body.

Good vibe overall, loved the culture (including religious focus).

Good general education.

His ACT score, grades, etc. seem like it'd drop the total cost by $15K to $20K vs. what's on the calculator. This makes it cost comp. with U of IL.

Lots of chances to play music.

Close. Reality for east and west coast schools. Airplanes add cost ($3K to $15K over course of 4 years ... location and who goes with).

Negative:

Less STEM focused. Seemed to lack nerd culture (good thing for us) of MIT and more STEM focused school.

Not football fans and football is pervasive. Offset - couple of uncles and relatives that would sell their souls to go to the games. :sharebeer

Overall:

Keeping it on the list.

We can see our son there. He can see himself happy there.

Planning "day in the life visit" to engineering and physics programs.

indyfish
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by indyfish » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:53 am

Any updates?

travellight
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by travellight » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:41 pm

indyfish wrote:Any updates?


I suspect we won't know till 4/1 when the final schools notify.

timmy
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:51 am

Hi. Too funny. You'll have to wait a year! He's only a Junior.

Everyone we spoke to (and listened to) said to make Junior year the research year (go sees) and senior year the doing and deciding year (decide where to apply, apply, decide).

So we are in research mode.

timmy
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:56 pm

We toured U of Chicago today. It's local for us ...

Great campus.

Very urban. Good if you like that. My son is on the fence (suburb kid ... so it's new to him ... visited plenty ... living day to day something else).

Great academics in general. Nerd culture ... plenty of non nerd stuff.

Only negative (relative to other "top schools"), no engineering. This might be a deal killer. (Physics and math still options.)

From talking to others (small yet in the know group) and online, he'd have 1/3 chance of full ride and a 2/3 chance of the total cost (of attending) being less than $30K/ year. Ironically, there is a 50% chance that he wouldn't get in. :oops:

timmy
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:28 am

We toured Stanford yesterday. It's a beautiful campus. Overall, it's everything you'd expect. It didn't really click for my son. Why? He didn't articulate it well. He just ran comparisons versus his top preference (MIT).

What was interesting ... I spoke to two Stanford students who applied to most of the top ranked schools in the country (US). A high rejection rate but still got into Stanford. It reinforces my view. Your stats (grades, test scores, etc.) buy you a lottery ticket. And maybe great stats buy you more lottery tickets (better odds). But the process is still a lottery.

He took his SAT. No score yet. But he feels he did well.

Pdxnative
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by Pdxnative » Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:05 pm

I agree it's a lottery (also that 50% admit chance at Chicago might be a tad optimistic).

My question is: how are you finding the time for these visits? Between days in school, activities, and sports we can barely find time for a haircut. Are you missing school days or activities for this?

Malinois000
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by Malinois000 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:17 pm

My daughter attending University of Maryland for undergraduate on an athletic scholorship and University of Chicago Law School (Partial scholly). My son attending University of Miami undergraduate - no scholly - ouch and is currently attending Cornell (partial scholly). My takeaway is there are a lot of ways to obtain a great eduction for kids that are driven. Additionally, there are numerous great options regarding the universities. Good luck to your son.

timmy
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:52 pm

Pdxnative wrote:I agree it's a lottery (also that 50% admit chance at Chicago might be a tad optimistic).

My question is: how are you finding the time for these visits? Between days in school, activities, and sports we can barely find time for a haircut. Are you missing school days or activities for this?
Yes, you are probably right. However, it's a mental crutch that we've developed. Please leave it be until Spring of 2018 :oops:.

Lot and lots of planning. Overall, he'll only miss one day of school. It helps (a lot) ... I travel for my job (150 segments per year). That means I get to a lot of places. I'll extend long weekends, etc. And I have a lot of miles and hotel points. This weekend to California will cost a few hundred dollars (food plus entertainment).

Pdxnative
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by Pdxnative » Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:04 pm

timmy wrote:
Pdxnative wrote:I agree it's a lottery (also that 50% admit chance at Chicago might be a tad optimistic).

My question is: how are you finding the time for these visits? Between days in school, activities, and sports we can barely find time for a haircut. Are you missing school days or activities for this?
Yes, you are probably right. However, it's a mental crutch that we've developed. Please leave it be until Spring of 2018 :oops:.

Lot and lots of planning. Overall, he'll only miss one day of school. It helps (a lot) ... I travel for my job (150 segments per year). That means I get to a lot of places. I'll extend long weekends, etc. And I have a lot of miles and hotel points. This weekend to California will cost a few hundred dollars (food plus entertainment).
Makes sense, nice that you can fit this in without disrupting your/his schedule too much.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:03 pm

Pdxnative wrote:I agree it's a lottery (also that 50% admit chance at Chicago might be a tad optimistic).
UChicago has a pretty aggressive marketing style, which might inflate the applications somewhat, but with an 8% acceptance rate, and an average ACT of enrolled freshman of 34, it's beyond optimistic to think that almost any kid has a 50/50 shot. Especially since it is need-blind for domestic students.

timmy
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:54 am

Good call out. I didn't mean to imply that any kid has a 50/50 chance. I meant my kid has a 50/50 chance.

Why?

Our HS gathers info on most of the colleges and the stats of the kids that apply there. The data is for many of the local HS. Anyway, we can see who (stats of, not the actual person). His stats (GPA = 4+, ACT = 36) are modestly better than all the kids that have been accepted.

We've also been on similar websites. All the same story.

50/50 is my proxy (for my son) better than average (8% in this case) odds. That doesn't remove the lottery nature of it. His stats may mean he can buy one or two more lottery tickets.

timmy
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:56 am

Big Dog wrote:The UC's love out of state students bcos they expect them to be full pay. All-in, Cal would cost you $60k/year. (Not big on merit in this state.) Cannot recommend unless money is no object.
Going to Berkeley on Monday ... We've heard the same.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:11 am

timmy wrote:Good call out. I didn't mean to imply that any kid has a 50/50 chance. I meant my kid has a 50/50 chance.

Why?

Our HS gathers info on most of the colleges and the stats of the kids that apply there. The data is for many of the local HS. Anyway, we can see who (stats of, not the actual person). His stats (GPA = 4+, ACT = 36) are modestly better than all the kids that have been accepted.

We've also been on similar websites. All the same story.

50/50 is my proxy (for my son) better than average (8% in this case) odds. That doesn't remove the lottery nature of it. His stats may mean he can buy one or two more lottery tickets.
You might be right. I assume you mean Naviance. This is not my first rodeo, and I've seen some "mortal locks" be surprised after basing much on Naviance, especially at schools that are holistic in admissions like UChicago, with its quirky essay prompts.

blevine
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by blevine » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:59 am

The HS Naviance data is often not correct.
Relies on students self reporting their results.
Not everyone who was rejected is so anxious to share such info.

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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:05 am

blevine wrote:The HS Naviance data is often not correct.
Relies on students self reporting their results.
Not everyone who was rejected is so anxious to share such info.
It differs from school to school. At my kids' HS, the data was entered by college counselors, and they knew who applied where (because they sent transcripts and LoRs). But in Naviance, there's no indication who was legacy, who was URM, who was recruited athlete, who wrote a kick-butt essay, etc. It's far better than nothing, but also far from predictive.

blevine
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by blevine » Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:20 am

GC were involved at our school, but in the end they ask students to report back their acceptance, rejects, wait list etc.
They know exactly how many apply (since they send data to the schools) but the # accepted/rejected often does not
equal the total that applied.

timmy
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:09 am

We visited the University of California Berkeley. It's a nice campus and has rigorous academics. I can see why some folks absolutely love the school. The school did not strike a cord with us.

timmy
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:41 am

I was at a social event last night. Two different families had just settled their school choices. Their boys had good stats (4+ gpa, 32 and 33 ACT scores). Both families chased the brass ring. Both fell short (from what they wanted). One family managed their expectations well and were pleased with the outcome. The other seemed bitter.

So the lesson ... Manage expectations. Sure, dream a bit. Work the process hard. Make rational choices. And keep a healthy attitude of gratitude ... Super fortunate to be able to attend a good college, even if it is not the "ideal" college.

timmy
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Wed May 17, 2017 8:13 am

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Last edited by timmy on Wed May 17, 2017 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

timmy
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Wed May 17, 2017 8:14 am

timmy wrote:Another update ...

SAT score 1580/1600

Developing list of schools with higher likelihood of full merit scholarship

Reduce the number of "elite" schools (to apply to)

In the Fall, the goal is to be complete with submissions by mid October. Why? 1. Many to most of the schools offer early decision if you apply early (or something like that). 2. My sons school activities tend to peak from November to March. So it would be nice not to worry about this stuff then (come November). This means putting a game plan together over the Summer.

Grilling any parent with a Senior who just went through the process :mrgreen:

wrongfunds
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by wrongfunds » Wed May 17, 2017 8:54 am

Fabulous score! I agree that he should go for early and he has a very good chance of getting in to his preferred schools that way.

timmy
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:02 am

Update:

Son is finalizing list of schools to apply to

He is putting together application/ tracking spreadsheet

Current thinking on schools in order of preference (all of them more than acceptable/ good outcomes)

MIT
Stanford
Rose-Hulman
Princeton
Notre Dame
U of IL
Purdue

Based on his "stats", he has a very respectable chance of getting into any of these schools. As noted before, MIT and Stanford are lotteries. Better stats may buy more lottery tickets ... but still lotteries.

We will also focus more on funding strategies and working through different scenarios. Or at least update our thinking on what we no know. (For example, he's shown competency in making robots work ... good at the electrical engineering/ programming. He could probably make $25K (validated number) the summer between his Sr. and Fr. year. After taxes, that $15K that could/ would go to tuition.) As noted above, we will not allow debt (no need to comment, we won't change our mind :sharebeer ).

Big Dog
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by Big Dog » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:28 am

Princeton is also a lottery. :D

btw: Notre Dame tends to take a certain type of applicant: ~half are former varsity players, so it may be a reach even with excellent numbers. Plus financial aid tends to be on the less generous side.

What about other excellent schools, like Georgia Tech? VaTech? Michigan? Cornell, Carnegie-Mellon and/or Johns Hopkins, to toss in some privates?

livesoft
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by livesoft » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:03 am

timmy wrote:Current thinking on schools in order of preference (all of them more than acceptable/ good outcomes)

MIT
Stanford
Rose-Hulman
Princeton
Notre Dame
U of IL
Purdue
That's a great list. From the geographic locations of these mostly private schools, I find it odd that perhaps Illinois Institute of Technology and Carnegie Mellon University are not on the list. A school not clustered in the Illinois to New England region would be Rice University down in Texas.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by TomatoTomahto » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:45 am

Big Dog wrote:Princeton is also a lottery. :D

btw: Notre Dame tends to take a certain type of applicant: ~half are former varsity players, so it may be a reach even with excellent numbers. Plus financial aid tends to be on the less generous side.

What about other excellent schools, like Georgia Tech? VaTech? Michigan? Cornell, Carnegie-Mellon and/or Johns Hopkins, to toss in some privates?
Ditto, and double ditto for CMU not being on the list and Notre Dame being on the list. But, probably OP's child knows what he's looking for.

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by itstoomuch » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:29 am

RE: CarnegieMellon, IIRC
is need-blind for Admissions.
is need-based for financial aid.
Timmy is adamant for no debt.
CMU has a fairly small endowment and uses its funds tactically to fill their student body and to be match plans from peer schools.
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by Purdue » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:52 am

We are in Illinois as well, and definitely of the same mindset of getting them out of college without debt. My oldest child just finished her freshman year at Purdue (nursing), where she was offered a modest scholarship (Illinois offered none). This made Purdue about equal cost-wise to U of I. But, Purdue has frozen tuition since 2013 (now frozen though 2019). So, in the end, it will likely be less expensive than U of I would have been. Of course, as my user name shows, I am biased.

timmy
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:20 pm

Purdue wrote:We are in Illinois as well, and definitely of the same mindset of getting them out of college without debt. My oldest child just finished her freshman year at Purdue (nursing), where she was offered a modest scholarship (Illinois offered none). This made Purdue about equal cost-wise to U of I. But, Purdue has frozen tuition since 2013 (now frozen though 2019). So, in the end, it will likely be less expensive than U of I would have been. Of course, as my user name shows, I am biased.
Funny, we expected not to like Purdue (not sure why???). Anyway, we liked it. And we've heard stories like yours ... that with a little merit aid ... it matches or beats U of I cost wise. We liked the campus more than U of I. And it's engineering program is highly ranked (liked U of I).

We've spoken to a few folks (who seem to be mostly right on these things). He could reasonably expect about $20K/ year merit. (For context, the total cost is $40K/ year).

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:25 pm

Big Dog wrote:Princeton is also a lottery. :D

btw: Notre Dame tends to take a certain type of applicant: ~half are former varsity players, so it may be a reach even with excellent numbers. Plus financial aid tends to be on the less generous side.

What about other excellent schools, like Georgia Tech? VaTech? Michigan? Cornell, Carnegie-Mellon and/or Johns Hopkins, to toss in some privates?
True in Princeton. Just less so than MIT and Stanford.

Notre Dame is interesting. We've heard mixed stories. We think ... based on what we've heard and discerned ... that if he got in ... we could expect to pay about $30K.

Michangan is fantastic. But it is the one school that you are guaranteed to pay the sticker price.

He may add in GT, CMU and John Hopkins. We'll be taking one more spin east. So we'll hit these if we can.

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by timmy » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:27 pm

livesoft wrote:
timmy wrote:Current thinking on schools in order of preference (all of them more than acceptable/ good outcomes)

MIT
Stanford
Rose-Hulman
Princeton
Notre Dame
U of IL
Purdue
That's a great list. From the geographic locations of these mostly private schools, I find it odd that perhaps Illinois Institute of Technology and Carnegie Mellon University are not on the list. A school not clustered in the Illinois to New England region would be Rice University down in Texas.
We visited IIT. It didn't strike a cord.

I'll check out Rice. It hasn't hit our filters. Thanks for the call out.

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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by Big Dog » Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:05 pm

He may add in GT, CMU and John Hopkins.
It's Johns (with an "s"). They are kinda sensitive about that extra letter. :wink:

Pdxnative
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by Pdxnative » Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:27 pm

Solid list. Did you consider UNC and Duke? Both have a very competitive full ride merit scholarship-Robertson scholars-that could be life changing for the right kid (not just covering costs, but providing great opportunities). You'd be giving up some of the MIT, etc rigor, but with other benefits at two great schools. Might be worth throwing in the mix.

https://robertsonscholars.org/about-us/mission/

Bfwolf
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by Bfwolf » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:31 pm

Allow me to be a little bit contrarian here to all the people who are throwing out more and more schools. I'd say: stop looking. Cancel that East Coast trip. You've got 7 strong schools here. You've been done an incredible amount of due diligence. This choice of schools is being imbued with gravity that is outsized compared to its actual importance. Your son sounds like an extremely bright, highly motivated kid. He's probably going to be successful and happy wherever he goes. So just stop. Apply to these 7 schools. See where he gets in and what kind of offers he gets, and if you need to make a final visit to 2 of the schools he's deciding between at the end of the process, then do that.

2pedals
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Re: Picking College and College Scholarships

Post by 2pedals » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:58 pm

Have you considered Iowa State University?

It has an excellent reputation for a fine engineering school where I work and not too far from your home. The problem I have with all the big name schools like MIT, Stanford, etc they tend to be great schools for graduate students but not so much for undergraduates. Their focus in tends to be in research and reputation and many of the undergraduate classes are taught by graduate students.

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