HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

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texas lawdog
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HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by texas lawdog » Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:48 am

I came across a post the other day about people using HELOC's as a backstop for emergency funds. Have no need for the money today but think it's smart to have these already set up ahead of time.

Two questions = 1) any benefit of using your current mortgage lender (mine is BOA) over another for a HELOC? and 2) what should be the priority of a HELOC over other sources in an emergency? my first thought would be to first use emergency savings, then taxable investments, HELOC, credit cards, retirement accounts.

thx

miles monroe
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by miles monroe » Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:04 am

couple quick comments.

clark howard recommends getting your HELOC from a bank where you have no deposits. the fine print gives the bank the right to debit your checking account if you don't make a payment - and if the purpose of a HELOC is an emergency like ya lost your job - then you probably don't want this to happen.

heads up - my HELOC had zero closing costs, - but i did not realize until i was at the closing table that one of the requirements of the zero closing costs was that you had to draw on the HELOC - $5K IIRC - and keep the loan open for at least 2 years making the minimum payment. so they earned some interest; just a sleazy way of doing things in my opinion. oh well, wachovia isn't around anymore to do that to anyone again.

supernova72
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by supernova72 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:20 am

I did this exact thing about a year ago and glad I did it. My FN advisor suggested I establish a HELOC since 95% of my retirement funds are tied up in a 401K and a pension plan.

I "shot for the moon" on the request ($200K) and got approved for $150K. I needed to tap into it recently for a purchase but hope to pay it off in the next two months. My home is valued at $550 and I still owe $120K :| Wishing I could wave a magic wand and pay it off but about to enter retirement "involuntarily" so weighing my options there.

obgraham
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by obgraham » Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:27 am

I've had a HELOC for many years. I use it for short term cash needs which don't fit into my regular planning scheme. Like the post below, all my liquid assets are in IRAs.
For instance, to buy a vehicle right now rather than selling some other asset to generate the cash. Yes, there is interest to be paid, but all financial decisions involve gaining or losing some money.
I use a small local bank for mine, because working the HELOC is quick and easy, handled on line, and I've got a local official to deal with who understands what I need at the time.

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tennisplyr
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by tennisplyr » Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:08 pm

I've had a HELOC for years....no mortgage. I've used it to buy a leased car, paint my house and pay for my daughter's wedding. The monthly payback is pretty low and I have a lot of total home equity. I use a large bank where I used to work and had a mortgage. It works for me :D
Those who move forward with a happy spirit will find that things always work out.

chx
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by chx » Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:31 pm

I have always had a HELOC for emergency. My plan is to only use it for actual emergencies, not for a new car when mine is still running, not for a wedding party, not to have my house painted when I can climb a ladder myself. I would use it for an emergency before selling any taxable investments, provided that I could pay it back in short order. As it turns out, I have used it only once, when my sister had an emergency shortfall of funds at a house closing because of a bank transfer error. She paid me back two days later when the bank mix-up was sorted out.

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Toons
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by Toons » Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:36 pm

tennisplyr wrote:I've had a HELOC for years....no mortgage. I've used it to buy a leased car, paint my house and pay for my daughter's wedding. The monthly payback is pretty low and I have a lot of total home equity. I use a large bank where I used to work and had a mortgage. It works for me :D
+1
Used for pretty much the same years ago :happy
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee

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FelixTheCat
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by FelixTheCat » Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:45 pm

I don't understand the rationale. An event occurs that is considered an emergency and you want to go into debt using your house as collateral. To me, that would make the emergency more risky.

I think you should just keep beefing up the liquid emergency fund.
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bigred77
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by bigred77 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:58 pm

I wouldn't care all that much if my HELOC lender was the same as the lender servicing my primary mortgage. I would shop for the best deal. If all else is equal, I would probably go with the same lender if it was more convenient.

I would use it if I had an emergency pop up that I couldn't pay with my regular cashflow. I would use cash savings first and then my HELOC in most situations. I would avoid selling taxable investments if I was facing significant tax bills. I would probably use my HELOC first in a job loss situation just in case the bank found out and froze/closed my credit line.

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hand
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by hand » Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:05 pm

HELOCs are great sources of liquidity for those who have the majority of their assets tied up in their house and investments / retirement accounts.
HELOCs have significant limitations as an emergency fund (though if free, few reasons not to set up).

What will the bank do to your HELOC if you encounter an emergency?

During the 2009 financial crisis, I believe banks cut credit lines to those who were unemployed and those whose houses ended up (financially) underwater. I imagine a natural disaster which destroyed or significantly devalued your house could have the same impact on your banks willingness to loan you money via a HELOC.

I personally wouldn't want to depend on a bank loaning me money after I lost my job, after my house was destroyed, or after an economic upheaval.

Rodc
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by Rodc » Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:28 pm

hand wrote:HELOCs are great sources of liquidity for those who have the majority of their assets tied up in their house and investments / retirement accounts.
HELOCs have significant limitations as an emergency fund (though if free, few reasons not to set up).

What will the bank do to your HELOC if you encounter an emergency?

During the 2009 financial crisis, I believe banks cut credit lines to those who were unemployed and those whose houses ended up (financially) underwater. I imagine a natural disaster which destroyed or significantly devalued your house could have the same impact on your banks willingness to loan you money via a HELOC.

I personally wouldn't want to depend on a bank loaning me money after I lost my job, after my house was destroyed, or after an economic upheaval.
Beat me to it.

If it can be taken away just when you need it the most it is not much of a backstop.
We live a world with knowledge of the future markets has less than one significant figure. And people will still and always demand answers to three significant digits.

alaskantraveler
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by alaskantraveler » Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:32 pm

I got a HELOC recently (on a rental property). The purpose was to actually pay my primary residence down to below 80% loan to value to drop the PMI. After that it will work as my emergency fund. Before the heloc my wife and I had to keep $20k in cash lying around to serve as our emergency fund, now we don't have to keep any cash lying around. If we need extra cash I can transfer directly from my HELOC into my bank account. Yes, I have to pay interest on the funds, but every dollar I spend that I don't pay on my mortgage I am paying interest on. My heloc cost about $800 to originate. 0.5% origination fee.
Last edited by alaskantraveler on Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

miles monroe
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by miles monroe » Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:52 pm

clark howard always tell people who ask that using a HELOC to buy a car -- or to pay off credit card debt -- is crazy and not to do it.

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Elsebet
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by Elsebet » Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:52 pm

I guess I'm more traditional in that I use my HELOC only for home renovation projects (and pay it off quickly) so I don't have to use my savings.

hudson
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by hudson » Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:27 pm

duplicate-delete
Last edited by hudson on Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

hudson
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by hudson » Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:31 pm

texas lawdog wrote:I came across a post the other day about people using HELOC's as a backstop for emergency funds. Have no need for the money today but think it's smart to have these already set up ahead of time.

Two questions = 1) any benefit of using your current mortgage lender (mine is BOA) over another for a HELOC? and 2) what should be the priority of a HELOC over other sources in an emergency? my first thought would be to first use emergency savings, then taxable investments, HELOC, credit cards, retirement accounts.

thx
I would not set up a HELOC unless I had a real long term need. I would avoid doing that if at all possible.

I had a friend whose spouse left; the spouse maxed out the HELOC. My friend was left holding the bag.
A HELOC can be very tempting.
I think the bottom line is to avoid debt if possible.

Image

I learned all of this the hard way.

delamer
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by delamer » Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:35 pm

I know of people whose HELOC maximum was reduced during the financial crisis because the value of their homes dropped significantly.

But is it true that people who lost their jobs had their HELOC's cut back or eliminated? How would the bank even know that?

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hand
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by hand » Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:01 am

Worth reading this relevant post from someone who actually worked at a credit union during 2008/2009 and was involved in "adjusting" credit lines.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=195017&newpost=2973318#p2973318

A HELOC is a great liquidity tool so you don't have to sell house / sell retirement funds to fund short / medium term expenses that you could otherwise afford, but falls far short of the mark if you expect it to protect you against common emergencies such as job loss, home destruction or loss or structural economic shifts that negatively impact you and others.

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NoNonsenseLandlord
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by NoNonsenseLandlord » Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:15 am

I got a HELOC on my paid off primary residence. I have used it to make cash offers on rentals. Then I pay off the HELOC in a few months.

It saves cashing in stock on a transaction that may not happen. Many non-MLS deals fizzle out.

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BeBH65
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by BeBH65 » Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:26 am

The wiki mentions this in the section on Cash emergency fund vs line of credit
Some people view various forms of credit (particularly HELOCs) as suitable for emergency funds; others strongly disagree. Credit lines can often be withdrawn with little or no notice, and some emergencies which require drawing on the emergency fund may also cause a creditor to question your ability to repay.
So a HELOC etc might be a good way to have access to cash, but in real emergencies might not be available.
BeBH65. (only an investment enthusiast, not a financial adviser, perform your due diligence).

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whodidntante
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by whodidntante » Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:10 pm

I would take the maximum draw the moment I see the wolf at the door. Better to pay a little interest on an unnecessary draw than to sell investments that are down.

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Artsdoctor
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by Artsdoctor » Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:06 pm

hand wrote:HELOCs are great sources of liquidity for those who have the majority of their assets tied up in their house and investments / retirement accounts.
HELOCs have significant limitations as an emergency fund (though if free, few reasons not to set up).

What will the bank do to your HELOC if you encounter an emergency?

During the 2009 financial crisis, I believe banks cut credit lines to those who were unemployed and those whose houses ended up (financially) underwater. I imagine a natural disaster which destroyed or significantly devalued your house could have the same impact on your banks willingness to loan you money via a HELOC.

I personally wouldn't want to depend on a bank loaning me money after I lost my job, after my house was destroyed, or after an economic upheaval.
This is partially correct. I certainly wasn't unemployed in 2009 and the mortgage was perhaps 20% of the value of the house at the real estate nadir. And the HELOC was STILL cut severely. I had never used it to begin with, and when I saw how easily the bank could manipulate the money available, I just cancelled it. There are other, more reliable, places to get money in an emergency.

Don46
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by Don46 » Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:03 pm

I set up something similar to a HELOC with Schwab but the collateral is assets in my taxable brokerage account. Schwab and I think other brokerage houses have a PAL ( Pledged Asset Line) account which allows you to draw up to 70 percent of the value of your assets. Yes, this exposes your assets to something like a margin call. No, you cannot use the funds to invest in other stocks. Because it is not a margin account, the interest is quite low, about %3.12. It fluctuates with the monthly LIBOR rate, plus a base interest rate. My CPA thinks this will be deductible as an investment expense. I'm not sure that will fly, but I hope he is right.
It means that I do not have to worry about being caught in a down market. The line is plenty deep enough and I will not come close to the limit. It also costs nothing to set up. Warning: it involves some paper work to transfer assets out of the PAL account.

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whodidntante
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by whodidntante » Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:26 pm

Don46 wrote:I set up something similar to a HELOC with Schwab but the collateral is assets in my taxable brokerage account. Schwab and I think other brokerage houses have a PAL ( Pledged Asset Line) account which allows you to draw up to 70 percent of the value of your assets. Yes, this exposes your assets to something like a margin call. No, you cannot use the funds to invest in other stocks. Because it is not a margin account, the interest is quite low, about %3.12. It fluctuates with the monthly LIBOR rate, plus a base interest rate. My CPA thinks this will be deductible as an investment expense. I'm not sure that will fly, but I hope he is right.
It means that I do not have to worry about being caught in a down market. The line is plenty deep enough and I will not come close to the limit. It also costs nothing to set up. Warning: it involves some paper work to transfer assets out of the PAL account.
I'm considering moving my assets from Fidelity to IB to be able to borrow against, rather than sell, stocks that may have been murdered recently. I can do that at Fidelity but their rates are high.

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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by triskelion » Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:33 pm

FelixTheCat wrote:I don't understand the rationale. An event occurs that is considered an emergency and you want to go into debt using your house as collateral. To me, that would make the emergency more risky.

I think you should just keep beefing up the liquid emergency fund.
+1

Years ago I used my HELOC as my float and my emergency fund. It worked well and was easily accessible. I then discovered that by using the HELOC, transferring to the brokerage (on margin of course), the beauty of OPM .... that was 2007. :oops:

Skip the HELOC.

spammagnet
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by spammagnet » Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:26 pm

NoNonsenseLandlord wrote:Many non-MLS deals fizzle out.
Many non-MLS deals fizzle out.

emoore
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by emoore » Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:10 pm

triskelion wrote:
FelixTheCat wrote:I don't understand the rationale. An event occurs that is considered an emergency and you want to go into debt using your house as collateral. To me, that would make the emergency more risky.

I think you should just keep beefing up the liquid emergency fund.
+1

Years ago I used my HELOC as my float and my emergency fund. It worked well and was easily accessible. I then discovered that by using the HELOC, transferring to the brokerage (on margin of course), the beauty of OPM .... that was 2007. :oops:

Skip the HELOC.
Huh? Not sure I understand that reasoning. If it worked well then why say skip it?

spammagnet
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by spammagnet » Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:14 am

emoore wrote:Huh? Not sure I understand that reasoning. If it worked well then why say skip it?
My interpretation:

First it worked out well...
triskelion wrote:Years ago I used my HELOC as my float and my emergency fund. It worked well and was easily accessible.
Then it didn't...
triskelion wrote:I then discovered that by using the HELOC, transferring to the brokerage (on margin of course), the beauty of OPM .... that was 2007. :oops:
(Emphasis added)

edge
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by edge » Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:34 am

Heloc as emergency fund is a terrible idea. It can be pulled and at the worst time.

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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by edge » Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:36 am

This is also a bad idea. Now the size of your 'emergency fund' shrinks dramatically in a crisis.
Don46 wrote:I set up something similar to a HELOC with Schwab but the collateral is assets in my taxable brokerage account. Schwab and I think other brokerage houses have a PAL ( Pledged Asset Line) account which allows you to draw up to 70 percent of the value of your assets. Yes, this exposes your assets to something like a margin call. No, you cannot use the funds to invest in other stocks. Because it is not a margin account, the interest is quite low, about %3.12. It fluctuates with the monthly LIBOR rate, plus a base interest rate. My CPA thinks this will be deductible as an investment expense. I'm not sure that will fly, but I hope he is right.
It means that I do not have to worry about being caught in a down market. The line is plenty deep enough and I will not come close to the limit. It also costs nothing to set up. Warning: it involves some paper work to transfer assets out of the PAL account.

Rebecca_S
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by Rebecca_S » Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:50 am

We had a HELOC as part of our emergency plan in the past, but have let it expire now that our taxable investments are significant and could be used in an emergency.
At one time we were in the middle of a bathroom renovation, paid for with savings but extra problems were found when we opened up the walls that increased the costs by a yet-unknown amount. In the meantime, our car was stolen and much later found totaled. We knew that insurance would eventually pay out for the car but in the meantime wanted to replace it, with a used car bought from a private party. Rather than waiting for the insurance check to come through, or depleting our liquid savings, we used the HELOC to pay for the replacement car. HELOC was paid off 2 months later when the insurance paid out, but gave us an easy short term loan at the time.
I felt like that was a good use of a HELOC, to float money for a short term purchase when our personal liquidity was tight, but would be repaid within a couple months.

madbrain
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by madbrain » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:10 am

delamer wrote:But is it true that people who lost their jobs had their HELOC's cut back or eliminated? How would the bank even know that?
They would probably know this if you started being late on credit accounts, have collections, etc.

I think some lenders cut credit lines because they were financially squeezed - not anything to do with the borrowers' credit quality.

The only time I used my HELOC was as a downpayment for my new house, while living in my existing home. It was during the financial crisis, in 2010, and the existing house sat on the market for a while, before I decided to rent it out. I did not want to live in the house and have all the visits from prospective buyers. It was a risky move to be sure - not an emergency. But a very good opportunity for me to live in my dream home.
I sold my first home in 2012. I have a HELOC on the new home as well - but have never drawn from it.

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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by madbrain » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:13 am

hand wrote: I personally wouldn't want to depend on a bank loaning me money after I lost my job, after my house was destroyed, or after an economic upheaval.
Well, you won't have to worry about that - if your house is destroyed, your HELOC will probably be cancelled ;)

Don46
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by Don46 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 7:16 pm

edge wrote:This is also a bad idea. Now the size of your 'emergency fund' shrinks dramatically in a crisis.
Don46 wrote:I set up something similar to a HELOC with Schwab but the collateral is assets in my taxable brokerage account. Schwab and I think other brokerage houses have a PAL ( Pledged Asset Line) account which allows you to draw up to 70 percent of the value of your assets. Yes, this exposes your assets to something like a margin call. No, you cannot use the funds to invest in other stocks. Because it is not a margin account, the interest is quite low, about %3.12. It fluctuates with the monthly LIBOR rate, plus a base interest rate. My CPA thinks this will be deductible as an investment expense. I'm not sure that will fly, but I hope he is right.
It means that I do not have to worry about being caught in a down market. The line is plenty deep enough and I will not come close to the limit. It also costs nothing to set up. Warning: it involves some paper work to transfer assets out of the PAL account.
My current PAL line of credit is 600k, far more than I would ever put aside for an emergency fund. It is also well below the 70 percent of my taxable account required. I think it is actually a pretty good way to provide emergency or short term cash needs and I recommend it to other Boglehead investors who might not know about this. I am told Merril Lynch has a similar program.

cseinv
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by cseinv » Fri Jul 29, 2016 7:39 pm

I used my Local Credit Union in 2008, zero cost to open and amortized over 20 years. The rate is variable, but has not gone above 4% since I took it out. I have only used it for emergencies on the house or reducing higher credit debts. It has eliminated the need to cash out of taxable accounts, but
I try to pay extra to keep the credit available. Seems credit unions offer more flexibility if you have good credit and a decent income. I took it out before I had to retire on disability and would be on a fixed income.

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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by edge » Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:07 pm

It is 600k in good times. In bad times it is 300k or less (depends on the exact assets backing it, assume risky ones) and subject to being pulled. Especially if it is at Merrill of all places. They yanked lines like crazy during the financial crisis. I don't know what Schwab did. Other players like ETrade pulled lines also.
Don46 wrote:
edge wrote:This is also a bad idea. Now the size of your 'emergency fund' shrinks dramatically in a crisis.
Don46 wrote:I set up something similar to a HELOC with Schwab but the collateral is assets in my taxable brokerage account. Schwab and I think other brokerage houses have a PAL ( Pledged Asset Line) account which allows you to draw up to 70 percent of the value of your assets. Yes, this exposes your assets to something like a margin call. No, you cannot use the funds to invest in other stocks. Because it is not a margin account, the interest is quite low, about %3.12. It fluctuates with the monthly LIBOR rate, plus a base interest rate. My CPA thinks this will be deductible as an investment expense. I'm not sure that will fly, but I hope he is right.
It means that I do not have to worry about being caught in a down market. The line is plenty deep enough and I will not come close to the limit. It also costs nothing to set up. Warning: it involves some paper work to transfer assets out of the PAL account.
My current PAL line of credit is 600k, far more than I would ever put aside for an emergency fund. It is also well below the 70 percent of my taxable account required. I think it is actually a pretty good way to provide emergency or short term cash needs and I recommend it to other Boglehead investors who might not know about this. I am told Merril Lynch has a similar program.

Don46
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by Don46 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:16 pm

edge wrote:It is 600k in good times. In bad times it is 300k or less (depends on the exact assets backing it, assume risky ones) and subject to being pulled. Especially if it is at Merrill of all places. They yanked lines like crazy during the financial crisis. I don't know what Schwab did. Other players like ETrade pulled lines also.
Don46 wrote:
edge wrote:This is also a bad idea. Now the size of your 'emergency fund' shrinks dramatically in a crisis.
Don46 wrote:I set up something similar to a HELOC with Schwab but the collateral is assets in my taxable brokerage account. Schwab and I think other brokerage houses have a PAL ( Pledged Asset Line) account which allows you to draw up to 70 percent of the value of your assets. Yes, this exposes your assets to something like a margin call. No, you cannot use the funds to invest in other stocks. Because it is not a margin account, the interest is quite low, about %3.12. It fluctuates with the monthly LIBOR rate, plus a base interest rate. My CPA thinks this will be deductible as an investment expense. I'm not sure that will fly, but I hope he is right.
It means that I do not have to worry about being caught in a down market. The line is plenty deep enough and I will not come close to the limit. It also costs nothing to set up. Warning: it involves some paper work to transfer assets out of the PAL account.
My current PAL line of credit is 600k, far more than I would ever put aside for an emergency fund. It is also well below the 70 percent of my taxable account required. I think it is actually a pretty good way to provide emergency or short term cash needs and I recommend it to other Boglehead investors who might not know about this. I am told Merril Lynch has a similar program.
Point taken, one would not want to be heavily leveraged before a down market. My idea is to have a line of credit, without any cost, available to me in case of emergency, such as a severe down market when I might need to raise cash and weather out a down market. Life is full of risks; this would be a risk, I concede.

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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by Spirit Rider » Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:17 pm

I like to think of a HELOC as a contingency fund not as an emergency fund. You can use it for an emergency if you prefer to use it over liquid cash. This had much more utility when online savings accounts were >= 5%, or when I Bonds had higher fixed rates.

I have used it extensively to time shift cash flow. For example, you might not want to sell funds that would result in capital gains (especially short-term). I have used it to pay taxes on Roth conversions and used future dividends and savings allocated to future taxable investments to pay it off.

So think of it as a contingency fund that you can take advantage of when it is available and makes sense. Just do not put it in the category of must have. It

technovelist
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Re: HELOC for emergency and when you would use it

Post by technovelist » Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:22 pm

“A banker is a fellow who lends you his umbrella when the sun is shining, but wants it back the minute it begins to rain.” -- Mark Twain.

IOW, don't rely on a HELOC as an emergency fund.
In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, they often differ.

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