Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

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Eurookat
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Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by Eurookat »

I'm not looking but I'm also getting feelers from recruiters. I'm at 113k and I know I can get more based on what the market dictates. I know recruiters give you a range, but I'm confident I can get an offer or two from jobs that offer 125-130k.

I like where I am and we didn't get a raise this year (company performance sucks). How do I approach HR and should I? Has anyone done this? My boss knows I'm underpaid and he's fighting for me. However he knows if the company doesn't bump me, I could potentially leave.

My wife is cutting her hours so I can make it up with the increase.

Update:

Wow I forgot about this thread. So I wanted to.give an update in case it helps other people. So around August we went through yet another reorg of my department. I was asked to move into a new role, with that a new title and an adjustment in salary. My new boss along with my old boss fought hard and got me to $120k plus additional stock options that are worthless. I'm grateful and I thanked them for sticking up for me.

I was a little bummed out considering it was still below market value but they didn't have to give me the raise so I gladly accepted what I could get. Now fast forward to present day. My boss recently left, we had a round of layoffs and folks are leaving. My group is dysfunctional and I wish we hadn't gone through the reorg so I'm stuck.

With that said, I'm now interviewing and preparing to leave. This time around, my new salary will be what the going rate is in the market. I'll miss the company but things are going downhill quickly. No counteroffer this time, if I find something, I'll end up leaving.
Last edited by Eurookat on Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
JeffAL
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by JeffAL »

You can't. Prepare to leave.
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LAlearning
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by LAlearning »

Don't go hunting unless you are prepared to leave ...
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dltnfs
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by dltnfs »

I would gently tell my manager that I needed money, and was receiving offers for more elsewhere. I would express regret that I might be forced to leave a job that I enjoyed in order to provide for my family, and ask, with some sense of urgency, if there was anything the company could do. That provides your manager with reasonable warning, and expresses your situation without seeming too disloyal.

If it's a large company, then it may be extraordinarily difficult for your manager to take any action outside their usual compensation review cycle. Your manager should be able to explain to you those constraints. It might help to get another offer, but it's also very awkward. I think convention for that varies by industry. You can't do the other offer trick too many times without making both employers dislike you, so if you do that, make it count. I've never seen a company where there was anything you could say to HR that would help, unless e.g. they're discriminating against a protected class. I wouldn't talk to them unless your manager thought you should. All of this assumes your manager really is fighting for you, which may or may not be true.

I would think carefully about whether a 10-15% raise was enough reason to move, unless there's something else better about the new job (which maybe there is, given your current employer's performance?), or you do work where a new hire quickly reaches maximum productivity.
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by rob »

JeffAL wrote:You can't. Prepare to leave.
This.... Land one of those jobs and move on.
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livesoft
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by livesoft »

The response to couch the ask in terms of providing for family is quite interesting to me. Such begging would fall on my deaf ears. I think it is better to ask to be paid a fair wage based on skills and experience. Otherwise, folks with same skills, but no family would end up getting lower paid, wouldn't they?
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by 123 »

Your best option is to get a new position elsewhere at a salary that is attractive to you.

Generally you can't successfully weasel around for more money where you're at. Sure, maybe they'll do it once if your lucky but where does that leave you next time. If it works it's a trick that only works once. It's far more professional just to seek a suitable position elsewhere.
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by dltnfs »

livesoft wrote:The response to couch the ask in terms of providing for family is quite interesting to me. Such begging would fall on my deaf ears. I think it is better to ask to be paid a fair wage based on skills and experience. Otherwise, folks with same skills, but no family would end up getting lower paid, wouldn't they?
It's just as rational as the company explaining that no one gets raises because the company underperformed (i.e., not rational at all). The manager seems to have already agreed that he isn't getting paid a fair wage based on skills and experience. I think that framing sometimes helps avoid a perception that the employee is greedy, and also helps to maintain good relations with the former boss if/when he leaves.

Your culture may vary. I wouldn't think that investment bankers bother with such fig leafs, but many people around me do.
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by Kenster1 »

You could possibly ask HR and frame in way by asking them about what it would take for someone in your position to make $120k - what would be needed to reach that level? Put the ball in their court to find out and to get a feel.

Also - are there different levels in your roles? For example - Sales Engineer and Senior Sales Engineer? Financial Analyst I, II, III?
Does your role have that type of distinction? If so, are you already at the top of the heap?

If they really can't give you a raise considering as you said that the company performed poorly --- could you consider other perks? An extra week of paid-vacation? Would you like more telecommuting flexibility?

I'm also getting hit by Recruiters consistently here and there - lateral positions and even with positions that would be a significant pay upgrade as the positions would be a considerable jump in title/role - e.g. Director. I'm in the Technology field in an area with a nice growth spurt and actually there's shortages of qualified people.
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by Kenster1 »

The thing too is that you would have to arm yourself with facts/evidence if you were really going to ask/tell HR that you're really worth more.

In any case --- I know that for our company (midsize - Fortune 500) - when your role/position increases or you switched positions, there is only so much increase our company will pay for internal employees.

So someone in a certain position lands another position within our company and that new position is at a higher pay grade - but they cap how much they will pay for internal employees. HR has told me before how much they were willing to pay for a certain position and the max they would pay - but the rate they told me was really for an internal employee. I know for a fact that they were willing to pay an outsider (external candidate) 30% more to land the right candidate because I know of friend's friends who have applied for positions at my company.

So that can sometimes be a hurdle that I've seen - HR will tell you one thing - Oh you're near the top of the heap as $115k is the top threshold for that position but when in reality - they might be willing to pay $125k to land the right (external) candidate.

Nevertheless - if you think that asking HR that you are really worth $125k at a minimum is too bold of a move - you could try a more lenient way by asking an honest question of what would it take for someone in your role to improve their compensation goals to achieve $125k - and see what they say. It'll give you a feel of where they stand and whether there could be a legitimate chance or a far-fetched dream and losing battle. Is it do-able in your current role or do they require you to be more senior or a team lead role among your peers? It could also break the ice to discuss other perks - extra week of paid-vacation, more flexible telecommuting schedule, etc. if you are willing and interested in considering those.
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by BUBear29 »

sdotsen wrote:I'm not looking but I'm also getting feelers from recruiters. I'm at 113k and I know I can get more based on what the market dictates. I know recruiters give you a range, but I'm confident I can get an offer or two from jobs that offer 125-130k.

I like where I am and we didn't get a raise this year (company performance sucks). How do I approach HR and should I? Has anyone done this? My boss knows I'm underpaid and he's fighting for me. However he knows if the company doesn't bump me, I could potentially leave.

My wife is cutting her hours so I can make it up with the increase.
I recently went through this and got a 15% bump while staying at my compnay. Be prepared to leave. Get an offer with higher salary from other company. Talk to your manager, telling them how you want to stay and make it work but would need a salary bump. Manager should engage HR who will call you to determine what needs to be done (salary-wise) to keep you. Make the process as easy as possible on the HR rep, this will get them on your side. Then if you can get somewhere acceptable, great. If not, pack up your desk and make the move.

Good luck!
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by harrychan »

Just approaching HR with an hypothetical offer won't do anything. If you want to negotiate, get a real offer in hand then go to HR via your line manager. There are politics associated with accepting a counter offer which heavily depends on your company culture.
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Eurookat
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by Eurookat »

Wow thanks for all the responses. Oh so I forgot to mention, we have another kid due to arrive in September so it's tricky. The extra income would help but switching jobs at this moment would be tricky.

So my boss who I became friends with prior to becoming my boss knows I can do better. He approached HR by telling them that I may consider leaving if the right offer came along. HR asked for the new salary I was seeking along with a salary guide that my boss found online. I know they're subjective but it helps. He hasn't heard back and that was almost two weeks ago. The last thing HR told my boss was that they're glad he found out now and they want to get ahead of it. Now the HR woman is on vacation so he has to wait.

I don't know if they're waiting for me to get an offer but you're right. If I have an offer and make a threat I may be forced to leave. My fear is my company may only lay managers 120k+. I'm in the IT field and where I am, there is no room for growth. I can't become a manager because there is no managers position for my role. I suppose I could be lead but the company may say I need a bigger title.

Regardless, I've been told many times that they value me. Money talks and it was publicly announced that no raises would be given this year. That's not to say some of the folks who got promoted didn't get a small raise. Knowing how they work, it wouldn't surprise me if they said come July (reevaluate raises), they would adjust it. Then again, it's not guaranteed and I would lose out on current opportunities.
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by jabberwockOG »

The way to get a bigger salary at current company is to land a formal job offer from a competitor. With that offer in hand let your manager know you have an offer and then you will find out what you are worth to your current company. If they value you they will ask how much it will take to keep you. Ask for a match in salary/benefits at a minimum. Under no circumstances should you accept promises from current manager of what they will do in the future. Any salary boost/promotion needs to be effective immediately. Be prepared to accept the higher offer if current company refuses to match or come very close to your offer.

btw - asking any employer for a raise in salary because you "need" more money is a ridiculous notion. You are compensated based on your value to the company. Your own personal financial situation and how much money you think you "need" is 100% irrelevant to your employer (as well it should be).
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by Kenster1 »

Personally for me - I'm also in the IT field and my company does sponsor me to attend a conference or two a year. Does your company currently let you go to say 1 or 2 conferences a year paid for by the company? That's an example where it can show that they value you and is a nice non-monetary perk and especially valuable in the IT field to stay abreast of current technologies and network with other pros.

If you found another company you would like to work for based on everything you've seen from the interviews and they can only offer $125k salary tops --- I would ask to negotiate a sign-on bonus. It is easier for a company to approve a sign-on bonus plus $125k salary than to approve say a $132k salary.

The Art of the Counteroffer: Can It Help You Land a Raise?
https://www.learnvest.com/2014/05/using ... a-raise/1/
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by dltnfs »

jabberwock wrote:btw - asking any employer for a raise in salary because you "need" more money is a ridiculous notion. You are compensated based on your value to the company. Your own personal financial situation and how much money you think you "need" is 100% irrelevant to your employer (as well it should be).
Did anyone suggest otherwise? There seems to be no dispute (at least, between the OP and his immediate manager) that he's being paid less than that value. "I need the money" is a reason why he will quit and take the higher offer elsewhere, not itself a reason for them to pay him more. Would you rather be remembered as the guy who left (or almost left) because he needed to support his family, or the guy who left over $12k? Maybe I just work in an unusually indirect corporate culture, and everyone else reports to homo economicus?

Different companies and managers will react differently to hardline negotiation. If the manager tells you that he can very probably get you a raise at review time, but not now, then that's obviously not a sure thing, but he's not necessarily lying. If you have a good relationship with your manager, then it may be worth the risk to disclose to him that you're planning to interview elsewhere, and discuss that before the fact. If your company has an internal system of "pay grades" or salaries tied to job titles or other structure, then try to understand it.

My advice may be needlessly cautious if your IT skills are highly transferable between employers. I'd be less concerned by a job-hopping IT guy than e.g. a job-hopping design engineer, simply because the cost to me while the new guy ramps up is smaller.
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by cme »

This has been said a couple times before in this thread, but:
  • Find a job offer that you are willing to accept
  • Talk to manager with job offer in hand
  • Ask if company is willing to match (or provide a new role, etc.); be nice
  • If company can't match, be prepared to leave; if you leave, be nice & don't burn bridges
I've gone through this a few times (playing the role of the manager) and my HR team has been willing to match to help me keep the right people. There is a cost for turnover - recruiting, retraining, lost productivity, higher cost for contingent staff, etc. - and no manager wants to lose good talent. Good talent makes managers look good...

I agree with the comment that this is probably single-use.

I haven't had much luck with theoretical offers - but it sounds like that is already in process and you'll have your answer when HR returns from vacation. I have seen broader market comp adjustments made at a couple firms (i.e., after a high level of turnover related to compensation), but I wouldn't expect that to proceed at a company that needs to hold expenses flat.
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by czr »

Don't forget to factor in other benefits: 401k match. Bonus structure, vacation days, holidays, hours worked, commute time, health insurance, flex time, and other perks to make it a better comparison. Having a great boss is also worth something. I am all for the market of jobs but I hear from people that regret moving for not taking into account the entire picture.
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by BobDaBlob »

Lots of reasonable responses here...
In my experience, the biggest factor in the OP's note is the statement that he likes where he is...this becomes the offset to the prospect of a 15% raise, which is diminished to some degree by taxes.

As with anything, there are known knowns (current job satisfaction, current salary), known unknowns (future salary growth prospects at current job, e.g. even though no raise this year, what was historical) and unknown unknowns (future job satisfaction, future growth prospects), all of which need to be considered in the scenario from the OP.

I have worked about a dozen jobs in my 30 year working career (Finance/IT). Most changes were due to money, some were due to job satisfaction, and a couple were involuntary due to market forces (layoffs). Looking back, I can honestly say I had better times and levels of job satisfaction earlier on, but the monetary opportunities presented by leaving outweighed that (at the time), leading in some cases to, maybe not quite regret, but wistful (and wishful) thinking.

OP...you said "money talks"...and it does, but it's not the only thing that does. Try to approach this holistically and not emotionally, like you would in your investments. Define a career-wise IPS, e.g. what do I like about what I do, what don't I like, what would I change if I could, and then try to understand what might make you stay and what might make you leave. Lots of things to consider, to be sure. But its not an exercise with only a one-time benefit.

Good luck!
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by fizxman »

I got a ~25% raise and promotion last fall after getting a job offer somewhere else. I told my manager that I didn't seek out another job but instead it came through a recruiter. I told him I was happy here and that if they matched the offer I would stay and they did so stayed.

Now comes the interesting part. After I decided to stay, a month later my role changed and a few months after that I was absorbed by a different group and no longer report to my old manager. Now I'm no longer happy working here in this new unanticipated role. I don't think any of this was malicious but things changed fairly quickly for me (and for the company if you look at some of my other posts) and not for the better. I'm having second thoughts about not taking the job offer but there's nothing I can do about it now except look somewhere else.

So be careful of what you ask for because if you get a raise (especially if it comes with a promotion) you role may change and then you may no longer be happy at work.
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by starguru »

Be careful. Have you determined that you would like these potential new job placements as much as you like your current position? You have to compare apples to apples, not just salary. Vacation/Sick time, advancement opportunity, work from home, RSU, bonuses, work/life balance etc....

Is it worth it to jump ship for a 20k raise if its 20hrs more a week?
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by rgs92 »

Don't get greedy. Be afraid, very afraid.
Did you ever see the big foot crushing you on Monty Python? That's the job situation these days.

You are in IT? So was I. You are in grave danger in IT. You are seen as a cost, not an asset, ripe for replacement. You may feel valued but it's an illusion. Don't let any false sense of security go to your head. Trust me. I was "highly valued" and promoted and then tossed out like a dead fish as soon as I got a little older when the outsourcing gods started breathing their fire.

Don't get arrogant and keep your head down.

And save a LOT because you are at risk and your career days could easily be numbered. (I have several middle aged friends who are out on their ear and one is applying for supermarket jobs. All are college grads and some have graduate degrees.)

And if not now, job insecurity will hit you big time when you are a little older. Even if you got the raise it could easily be a Pyrrhic victory (more pressure, bad assignments, being labeled as a complainer, a target in a layoff, etc.) The employers have the upper hand.

And do *not* change jobs if you feel reasonably secure (unless it's to get a gov't job which is like winning the lottery for the stability; even at a big pay cut it's worth it).

So don't start doing cost-benefit calculations, as there are too many intangibles to measure.
Last edited by rgs92 on Wed May 04, 2016 2:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

I was working for an employer, i had kept taking on new jobs and responsibility, with no real adjustment in pay, they said that it would come at yearly time. At yearly time, the raise stunk.

I went to my 2nd level manager and said something to this extent. "I am really disappointed with the yearly adjustment based on the additional responsibility I've taken on. When i look at the pay brackets for my discipline and skill level, i am XX percent of market reference. Furthermore, my rating at review time was the best available. I feel that this is abnormally low vs where my peers are. Are you willing to look into this for me; so that we can have a discussion about how to close my perception of pay disparity?"

6 months later i was given an out of sequence pay adjustment to move me inline to where my peers where being paid internally.
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by Boglegrappler »

The only way to know whether you should leave your job is to get the offer from the competitor, and let your firm know that you're leaving.

Their response will tell you whether you should have left. If it's "Good luck, we wish you the best", then you needed to leave.

There is risk in all changes, but I've concluded over the years that people underestimate their risk associated with staying put where they are. It's often much higher than perceived.

Good luck.
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by Isabelle77 »

My husband recently went through this, he was offered a job in a different city with more money but really likes his current position and we like where we live. He simply told his boss that he was being recruited and while he wasn't asking for more money, he wanted to know that there was a path going forward for advancement in his current organization.

Within 3 days he was given a promotion and a 15% raise. I think the outcome could have been very different had he approached it differently.
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by VegasBH »

What folks said is right about landing an offer and requesting they match but you do need to be ready willing and able to take the other offer. The other angle is can you find a way to provide more value to your current company? If you can do something valuable it could justify more compensation.
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by ClevrChico »

When I jumped ship, the VP said I should have talked to him before taking another offer. This was after years of stating my salary was below market, suggesting I may have to leave, etc.

If you receive an offer, take it and move on. Even if you accept a counter offer there's a reasonable chance you will have salary compression from that point forward. That said, recruiters lie all the time. Ask them the salary several times, and you may receive different answers every time. They'll tell you what you want to hear.
Last edited by ClevrChico on Sun May 08, 2016 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by mchriton »

As others have said, if you bring this up you need to be prepared to leave. It's also important to consider the long game, determine if either of the positions put you in a better situation for career advancement even at the cost of less money now. Also worth negotiating projects/roles (e.g: increase of scope) at your current company if there is flexibility to put you on a better trend -- it can be MUCH more important than a small immediate raise.
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by JoeJohnson »

sdotsen wrote:I'm in the IT field and where I am, there is no room for growth. I can't become a manager because there is no managers position for my role. I suppose I could be lead but the company may say I need a bigger title.
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by whodidntante »

Recruiters will not hire you and will engage in a bit of selling to you so they can shop you around. Unless you have a real offer in hand it's just talk.
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by itstoomuch »

IMO, your managers and HR should be aware of compensation in the Market. If they are Not aware of the Market, you should move on. If they are aware of the Market, then you should move on. They are paying you exactly what you are worth to them. Your manager's and HR job is to get the tasks done at reasonable costs. All quantifiable.
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by nisiprius »

It's been some decades since I used a recruiter. I've had recruiters land jobs for me twice, so, yes, it's one way to get a job.

I would be very suspicious of recruiters mentioning salaries. I would guess that I went to a total of twelve interviews to land those two jobs. Every interview required me to make some kind of excuse to be absent from work. You don't have a valid estimate of your value until someone has made you a firm job offer (which in my case, in the past, has taken about three interviews at the firm that eventually hired me).

Recruiters work for employers. Recruiters are paid by employers. The recruiter gets paid for getting lots of qualified people to show up at job interviews. This means that even honest recruiters have strong temptations to present overoptimistic pictures of the job prospects.

A very bad and very embarrassing recruiter experience. I'd even a recruiter my résumé. He called me with a job prospect. He described the job to me. I said "But it calls for strong experience in Oracle database programming and I've never done that." He said, "the hiring manager has seen your résumé and says he's very interested in you, I think you should go." I went. Early in the interview the hiring manager says "Tell me about your Oracle database programming experience." I said "I've never done any Oracle database programming." He says, verbatim, "Then why are you here?" I said "I sort of had the same question myself, but the recruiter said you had seen my résumé and were interested." He shakes his head with annoyance. I apologized, we mutually agreed that we didn't think much of the recruiter, and I made my departure.

I would definitely not say a word at my present job unless I literally had a written offer in hand (and I mean it, written). Personally, whenever I've been in that situation, I knew what I wanted to do--take the new job. I can't speak to the advisability of taking a counteroffer. Recruiters of course always tell you never to do it, but then what would you expect them to tell you?
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.
Topic Author
Eurookat
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by Eurookat »

Updated material in my original post in case anyone cares.
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jimmyq
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by jimmyq »

Thanks for the update. Sounds like you're making the right decision by looking for another job. I worked for a company that was on the decline with people jumping ship and it wasn't much fun. I rode it out and the company did turn things around eventually (well, until they went into a death spiral about 5 years later, but that's another story). In retrospect I would have been better off jumping ship much sooner.

Good luck with the job hunt!
Topic Author
Eurookat
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Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:44 pm

Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by Eurookat »

jimmyq wrote:I rode it out and the company did turn things around eventually (well, until they went into a death spiral about 5 years later, but that's another story). In retrospect I would have been better off jumping ship much sooner.

Good luck with the job hunt!
This is the dilemma I face. The company could do better but with our valuation in decline and a new boss who may have a different agenda, I'm just not interested in finding out for myself.

I put in four years so I've earned my stripes. I'll have to start all over again at a new job. We have a big bonus coming March and I want to wait but I also don't want to miss out on a great opportunity. I told the wife I can make up the bonus money with the raise I could get with a new job.

Yeah didn't go over well when she wants a new bathroom.
rgs92
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Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by rgs92 »

It sounds like your wife sees you as human ATM. That's a problem.
It's your career strategy and pressure or influence like this could cause you to make some sort of big mistake.
A job you can live with long-term should be your main goal.
The Formica in the bathroom is the least of your worries. Ignore the noise and think about the big picture and all elements of your career and life.
nolapepper
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Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:06 pm

Re: Recruiters reaching out with larger salary, how to ask for a raise at current job

Post by nolapepper »

I dug out this post as I am in the same situation now. I am curious how the op is doing and thinks of what his decision he made last year.

I got a promotion without a raise because the big boss said the university had no money because of lower enrollment. Looking back i should have fought for a raise. The new administration is hiring more staff and I am sure they are offering the market price.

To ask for a 15-20% raise now, I am thinking I probably have to go in with an offer in hand. :(
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