How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills
Leeraar
Posts: 4109
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:41 pm
Location: Nowhere

How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by Leeraar » Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:17 pm

We've been in Europe for a week, and I have not been able to get any of four cards to work to purchase gasoline at unattended gas stations. They are AMEX charge, and AMEX, MasterCard and Visa credit cards. All have chips, and I know the PIN for each.

The problem is they are actually Chip and Signature cards. Where can I get a real Chip and Pin card that will work, for example, to buy rail tickets and gasoline at unattended locations in Europe?

Thank you,

L.
You can get what you want, or you can just get old. (Billy Joel, "Vienna")

livesoft
Posts: 56386
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by livesoft » Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:41 pm

I am told that USAA credit cards can do this, but you have to request a PIN to get this going.
https://content.usaa.com/mcontent/stati ... 126885.pdf
This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.

User avatar
prudent
Moderator
Posts: 4743
Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 2:50 pm

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by prudent » Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:49 pm

PenFed Credit Union has chip + signature + PIN cards. (Use either one)

inspector00
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:08 pm

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by inspector00 » Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:54 pm

It has an annual fee but Barclay's arrival plus should give you a real chip and pin.

FullYellowJacket
Posts: 273
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:21 am

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by FullYellowJacket » Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:59 pm

Andrew Federal Credit Union has a card that has Chip and Pin. 0% foreign transaction fees and no annual fee. It annoyingly defaults to Chip and Sig if the reader allows it. I suspect many of these other cards do the same thing.

takeshi
Posts: 1100
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 10:02 pm

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by takeshi » Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:23 am

A number of cards in the US are chip & signature with fallback to chip & PIN so if only chip & PIN is desired then carefully research. IIRC PenFed and USAA cards are signature priority.

FullYellowJacket
Posts: 273
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:21 am

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by FullYellowJacket » Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:31 am

takeshi wrote:A number of cards in the US are chip & signature with fallback to chip & PIN so if only chip & PIN is desired then carefully research. IIRC PenFed and USAA cards are signature priority.


I actually don't know any US cards that are PIN priority before sig, but I haven't done any research in the last year.

centrifuge41
Posts: 1154
Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 9:04 am

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by centrifuge41 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:37 am

inspector00 wrote:It has an annual fee but Barclay's arrival plus should give you a real chip and pin.

Arrival non-plus is chip and pin, and has no AMF.

flyingbison
Posts: 1363
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:52 am

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by flyingbison » Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:42 am

I have one from US Bank, but I've never had to use the PIN so far. If I ever do need it, I'm sure I won't remember the PIN anyway.

rcsracing
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:16 am
Location: Slovakia (expat)

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by rcsracing » Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:15 pm

I'm in Europe as an expat for the next few years. I have the Barclays Arrival+ card.

It's chip+signature & chip+pin, with signature as the first tier.

That means when I go the grocery store and insert my card, the machine prints out a signature slip. The store system allows it, but the clerks usually have no idea what it's for.

If the system doesn't accept signature, the machine prompts for a PIN. This works at train stations, etc.

It does have an annual fee, but I'm making use of the travel rewards.

user5027
Posts: 738
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:54 pm

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by user5027 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:45 pm

I've had a Target REDcard for a few years and only used it for the occasional purchase at Target for the 5% reward.

They recently sent me a new card and said it was chip and pin.

We have had issues travelling in europe before with our US cards not being true chip and pin. We usually use our Discover (part of Diners Club) or Capital One Visa since they have no foreign transaction fees and always have a fair exchange rate but they were not true chip and pin. I recall problems in Denmark at food stores and learned to always carry currency just in case.

We plan to be in Italy soon and I was researching buying train tickets and they mentioned using ticket machines on the platforms but to be sure you have a chip and pin card. I guess that is similar to the unmanned gas stations.

I checked the REDcard website. They were Visa but are now Master Card with the new cards and have no foreign transaction fee. It will be interesting to see how it works in Italy.

111
Posts: 206
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:20 am

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by 111 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:56 pm

user5027 wrote:We plan to be in Italy soon and I was researching buying train tickets and they mentioned using ticket machines on the platforms but to be sure you have a chip and pin card.


I just spent a week in Italy and had no problem with my Chase Marriott Chip + Signature card at the machines. I had other options ready just in case though.

livesoft
Posts: 56386
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by livesoft » Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:06 pm

111 wrote:
user5027 wrote:We plan to be in Italy soon and I was researching buying train tickets and they mentioned using ticket machines on the platforms but to be sure you have a chip and pin card.


I just spent a week in Italy and had no problem with my Chase Marriott Chip + Signature card at the machines. I had other options ready just in case though.

May I ask if "the machines" asked for a PIN or if "the machines" printed out a slip to sign or if "the machines" had you sign on a little screen?
This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.

User avatar
ryuns
Posts: 3456
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:07 pm
Location: Sacramento, CA. Age: 31

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by ryuns » Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:09 pm

My Chase Sapphire card (which is supposed to be "ideal" for travelers) doesn't offer chip and PIN, only chip and signature. I didn't have any problem with my chip and signature card at Spanish train stations. They just processed the transactions with no issue. They didn't ask for PIN OR signature. These are fairly small transactions--longer train trips, I just bought on their website or via their app.

I called Chase before the trip and asked if I could add a PIN option and they said they couldn't--that US financial institutions couldn't add a PIN option to their card. I'd never heard that before, and it sounds ridiculous. My Barclaycard-badged (non-US based) Sallie Mae card DOES allow a PIN option, so who knows? (Of course, they charge a foreign transaction fee, so who knows?
An inconvenience is only an adventure wrongly considered; an adventure is an inconvenience rightly considered. -- GK Chesterton

livesoft
Posts: 56386
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by livesoft » Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:12 pm

FWIW, I just called USAA and added a PIN to my credit card. It was way too easy.
This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.

111
Posts: 206
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:20 am

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by 111 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:40 pm

livesoft wrote:
111 wrote:
user5027 wrote:We plan to be in Italy soon and I was researching buying train tickets and they mentioned using ticket machines on the platforms but to be sure you have a chip and pin card.


I just spent a week in Italy and had no problem with my Chase Marriott Chip + Signature card at the machines. I had other options ready just in case though.

May I ask if "the machines" asked for a PIN or if "the machines" printed out a slip to sign or if "the machines" had you sign on a little screen?


Neither. The card is programmed for Signature if possible, then drops to "No CVM Required" if signature isn't supported by the machine.

livesoft
Posts: 56386
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by livesoft » Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:43 pm

^Thanks!
This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.

111
Posts: 206
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:20 am

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by 111 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:51 pm

livesoft wrote:^Thanks!


No problem. I do recommend having back up options just in case though (I also have a USAA Chip & PIN card and a Chip & PIN debit card issued by my European bank).

Also, anything other than regional trains I would book online in advance to try and get better prices.

neilpilot
Posts: 945
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:46 pm
Location: Memphis area

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by neilpilot » Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:53 pm

ryuns wrote: I called Chase before the trip and asked if I could add a PIN option and they said they couldn't--that US financial institutions couldn't add a PIN option to their card. I'd never heard that before, and it sounds ridiculous.


It not only ridiculous, but it's not true. I leave next week for 3 weeks in Spain, and will carry a Chase Freedom Visa, a Chase AARP Visa and a Capital One Venture. The Capital One is my preferred card since there's no foreign transaction fee.

I was able to reset the PIN for both Chase cards, as well as file a foreign travel alert, on the Chase web sit.

patrick
Posts: 1469
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:39 am
Location: Mega-City One

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by patrick » Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:03 pm

In Europe last year, I had no problems using my chip and signature cards with automated train ticket machines in Finland and France. Belgium didn't like it however. And speaking of booking long distance trains online -- I was able to buy a ticket from France to Belgium online, but had to buy in person to get the ticket from Belgium to France!

adam1712
Posts: 288
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:21 pm

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by adam1712 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:05 pm

One recommendation is do not try to enter the PIN, just push cancel or enter and input no numbers. The PIN you're trying to use is likely just a cash-advance PIN and not linked to the chip.

I had some success with my chip-and-sig card by just pushing cancel at the PIN prompt last summer in Europe at automated machines but it wasn't universal.

criticalmass
Posts: 200
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:58 pm

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by criticalmass » Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:47 pm

The EMV PIN can either be online (stored on bank's server) or offline (stored encrypted on the chip itself). In Europe, many (not all) self-pay devices need to access an offline PIN, such as gas stations, tolls, parking, train tickets, etc. Changing the PIN if it stored offline requires an ATM that is capable of this function, or getting a new card. Other kiosks will work with an online PIN. Newer implementations should work with EMV signature cards without a PIN, see posts by marbat on this site, but your experience may vary.

If you need a card with offline PIN capabilities, you have some options in the USA:

Diners Club charge cards. (ONLY Chip and PIN, no Chip and Signature capabilities. PIN is both offline and online). If you use this card at a store that uses EMV, like Walmart in the USA, you will have to enter your PIN or no sale. It really confuses American waiters! :) Note that Diners Club cards have an FTF.

United Nations FCU credit card. Chip and PIN, online and offline PIN. Requires joining UNFCU, which is available if you join an association for a nominal fee. FTF is either 0% or 1%.

Some other credit unions offer Chip and PIN cards with an offline PIN, but usually the cards prefer signature (if terminal supports). At an unmanned kiosk, the PIN will work. These include PenFed (offers cards with no FTF), Andrews FCU, State Dept FCU, and others. Again, you need to join these credit unions first, but all have membership options available.

Bank of America credit cards do have ONLINE PIN capability, in addition to chip and signature. If the kiosk can do online PIN, this will work--use the same PIN as provided for cash advance. Note that BoA documentation does not say it will work, but it will work. . Purchases will not be treated as cash advance. Again, purchases with a PIN will not be treated as cash advances. If the kiosk only does offline PIN, a BoA card will not work at all.

Capital One cards have no online or offline PIN capabilities. They will only work at kiosks if the kiosk supports No Cardholder Verification. But you will enjoy no FTF.

I use a Capital One card for most purchases (rewards + no FTF), and either a Diners Club or PenFed card where PIN is required.

(FTF= foreign transaction fee)

User avatar
archbish99
Posts: 1602
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:02 pm

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by archbish99 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:53 pm

As part of my Delta AmEx switch to an EMV chip, I was told that if I'm prompted for a PIN, I should enter the CVV code from the front of the card. That implies the card is willing to negotiate PIN, though I haven't actually had that happen.
I'm not a financial advisor, I just play one on the Internet.

User avatar
ryuns
Posts: 3456
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:07 pm
Location: Sacramento, CA. Age: 31

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by ryuns » Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:13 pm

neilpilot wrote:
ryuns wrote: I called Chase before the trip and asked if I could add a PIN option and they said they couldn't--that US financial institutions couldn't add a PIN option to their card. I'd never heard that before, and it sounds ridiculous.


It not only ridiculous, but it's not true. I leave next week for 3 weeks in Spain, and will carry a Chase Freedom Visa, a Chase AARP Visa and a Capital One Venture. The Capital One is my preferred card since there's no foreign transaction fee.

I was able to reset the PIN for both Chase cards, as well as file a foreign travel alert, on the Chase web sit.


¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I have a Chase Sapphire and Chase Freedom card, both with chips, and they told me I was out of luck on setting a PIN for POS transactions. Might be worth my calling again. In any case, everything else has always been seamless and I love using the Chase Sapphire for travel. No fees, double points on almost everything travel-related, great travel insurance (baggage, travel delay, rental car damage, etc), bonus points on the surprisingly useful Ultimate Rewards, and points that transfer to Southwest (1.7 cents per point instead of the standard 1.2). I even booked travel through Ultimate Rewards and couldn't figure out the cost to change my ticket, and the concierge actually called British Airways on my behalf to figure it out.
An inconvenience is only an adventure wrongly considered; an adventure is an inconvenience rightly considered. -- GK Chesterton

HopeToRetireSoon
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 8:35 am
Location: The Southwest

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by HopeToRetireSoon » Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:14 pm

Yes, it can be a pain to travel the world without a chip + pin card. Once, several years ago, I very nearly couldn't drive out of a Belgian public parking garage late one night. (Fortunately, a friend was able to "rescue" me.)

In the past year, I've used USA chip + pin capable credit cards from USAA, PenFed and Barclay's (Aviator Red) at unattended stations in Europe. Here's a link with a few more options...

http://milecards.com/6084/3-full-chip-p ... h-no-fees/

Like someone already mentioned, the Chase Sapphire Preferred is a fine card, extra points for travel/restaurants, and no foreign transaction fee. It still required a signature, however, at European locations late last summer. (I don't think that has changed.)

User avatar
LadyGeek
Site Admin
Posts: 40504
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:34 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by LadyGeek » Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:30 pm

This thread is now in the Personal Finance (Not Investing) forum (credit card).
To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.

Leeraar
Posts: 4109
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:41 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by Leeraar » Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:57 pm

OP here.

Thank you for all the suggestions. Given the demise of the Costco / AMEX relationship, I have decided to rationalize our credit cards in the next week or two. (Really, I still have a Borders and a Barnes & Noble card, neither used for years.) One of them will definitely be a proper Chip + PIN card.

L.
You can get what you want, or you can just get old. (Billy Joel, "Vienna")

richardglm
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:42 pm

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by richardglm » Thu Mar 10, 2016 2:17 am

neilpilot wrote:
ryuns wrote: I called Chase before the trip and asked if I could add a PIN option and they said they couldn't--that US financial institutions couldn't add a PIN option to their card. I'd never heard that before, and it sounds ridiculous.


It not only ridiculous, but it's not true. I leave next week for 3 weeks in Spain, and will carry a Chase Freedom Visa, a Chase AARP Visa and a Capital One Venture. The Capital One is my preferred card since there's no foreign transaction fee.

I was able to reset the PIN for both Chase cards, as well as file a foreign travel alert, on the Chase web sit.


FYI, ryuns is actually correct about this. The PIN you set is for cash advance at ATM only. It is emphatically not a "chip and pin" PIN and can't be used for purchases. Chase and Capital One credit cards simply have no support at all for "chip and pin" and will fail if there is no way to collect a signature, and the purchase amount exceeds the merchant's threshold for requiring signature or PIN.

If you need a true "chip and pin" card in Europe, those aren't going to work.

ryuns wrote:My Chase Sapphire card (which is supposed to be "ideal" for travelers) doesn't offer chip and PIN, only chip and signature. I didn't have any problem with my chip and signature card at Spanish train stations. They just processed the transactions with no issue. They didn't ask for PIN OR signature. These are fairly small transactions--longer train trips, I just bought on their website or via their app.

I called Chase before the trip and asked if I could add a PIN option and they said they couldn't--that US financial institutions couldn't add a PIN option to their card. I'd never heard that before, and it sounds ridiculous. My Barclaycard-badged (non-US based) Sallie Mae card DOES allow a PIN option, so who knows? (Of course, they charge a foreign transaction fee, so who knows?


Chase's phone support is woefully uninformed. US based financial institutions are free to offer "chip and pin" support and several do; Barclays, PenFed, USAA, and some others all support "chip and pin" fallback if "chip and signature" fails. It's that Chase doesn't want to offer it. It's a niche feature that most of their customers simply don't care about.

FullYellowJacket wrote:Andrew Federal Credit Union has a card that has Chip and Pin. 0% foreign transaction fees and no annual fee. It annoyingly defaults to Chip and Sig if the reader allows it. I suspect many of these other cards do the same thing.


Almost all US issued cards prefer signature. Only a few specialty credit unions offer PIN preference cards.

Leeraar
Posts: 4109
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:41 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by Leeraar » Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:31 am

Yes,

The last year has been a huge step backwards. Now that USA cards have a chip, they don't work as swipe and signature any more. Swipe has all but disappeared in Europe (Italy), where we just were. Chip and signature worked fine in grocery stores. For ATMs we used my ATM Debit card, like we always have. Worked fine, except you have to be alert to the scam where they offer to do the EUR to USD conversion. The machine offered us $1.20 per Euro, BofA did it for less than $1.10.

I was unable to get any of five cards to work in an unattended machine at gas stations. I did not have the time nor the patience to experiment with all of them for train tickets.

What irritates me is that I thought I had this figured out with State Federal Credit Union a couple of years ago. Their card may work (I don't know) but they require you to call them to authorize each trip and each country. They refused to enable my card for all of western Europe all the time.

L.
You can get what you want, or you can just get old. (Billy Joel, "Vienna")

richardglm
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:42 pm

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by richardglm » Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:55 am

Leeraar wrote:I was unable to get any of five cards to work in an unattended machine at gas stations. I did not have the time nor the patience to experiment with all of them for train tickets.


Gas stations usually require PIN because they sometimes authorize up to €100 or more on the card before pumping, well above any value limit for exempting PIN verification. Train tickets might work for smaller value transactions.

What irritates me is that I thought I had this figured out with State Federal Credit Union a couple of years ago. Their card may work (I don't know) but they require you to call them to authorize each trip and each country. They refused to enable my card for all of western Europe all the time.


The smaller the credit union, the more restrictive they have to be. The bank or credit union has to absorb the costs of virtually all fraud, and for a smaller credit union some coordinated fraud on multiple accounts could be extremely damaging. For their own sake they need to block foreign transactions except when expressly notified. Some larger credit unions and one of the big banks told me they require no travel notification for most of Europe.

Ichabob
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:42 am

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by Ichabob » Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:52 am

I got the arrival+ for this reason, but I plan on cancelling. Everytime it was used in Europe, it would be rejected for security despite letting Barclays know about the travel in advance. Since they modified the terms of the card last year, it doesn't make sense to keep it as a 2.+% CB card with the annual fee, esp. since Barclays CS is so lacking when trying to use the card internationally.

smackboy1
Posts: 904
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:41 pm

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by smackboy1 » Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:11 am

We've had a PenFed chip+PIN Visa for a few years. Works fine in Europe and other foreign destinations unattended machines and shops. No annual fee and no forex fee. But also no rewards program. We don't use it in the US because no cash back, but with Costco about to split with Amex we can use the Visa there.

We also carry a chip+signature Amex (forex fee) and Capital One MC (no forex fee) as a backup overseas.

Keep in mind some unattended machines will not work with ANY credit cards, chip+PIN or otherwise. e.g. some German U-Bahn ticket machines only accept local bank debit cards. Spent many frustrating attempts to figure that one out (cannot read German).

Be careful when using US credit card with no forex fee overseas. Sometimes the printout will list 2 currency options: local currency and USD. Always circle "local currency" so your credit card will perform the forex with no fees. If you circle "USD" (or worse, if the merchant circles it for you) then the merchant's local bank performs the forex and will charge you a % fee, even if you have a no forex fee credit card! It's downright sneaky!
Disclaimer: nothing written here should be taken as legal advice, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

ResearchMed
Posts: 5151
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:25 pm

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by ResearchMed » Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:02 am

smackboy1 wrote:We've had a PenFed chip+PIN Visa for a few years. Works fine in Europe and other foreign destinations unattended machines and shops. No annual fee and no forex fee. But also no rewards program. We don't use it in the US because no cash back, but with Costco about to split with Amex we can use the Visa there.

We also carry a chip+signature Amex (forex fee) and Capital One MC (no forex fee) as a backup overseas.

Keep in mind some unattended machines will not work with ANY credit cards, chip+PIN or otherwise. e.g. some German U-Bahn ticket machines only accept local bank debit cards. Spent many frustrating attempts to figure that one out (cannot read German).

Be careful when using US credit card with no forex fee overseas. Sometimes the printout will list 2 currency options: local currency and USD. Always circle "local currency" so your credit card will perform the forex with no fees. If you circle "USD" (or worse, if the merchant circles it for you) then the merchant's local bank performs the forex and will charge you a % fee, even if you have a no forex fee credit card! It's downright sneaky!


Did you need to request a "PIN only" to avoid the chance of a default to signature problem as described above?

We are just getting a PenFed "chip and PIN" card, and don't quite trust the answers of the rep there, who may not even understand what we are asking or why.

So far, we've avoided trouble when in Italy (and next trip includes France), but we weren't ever in the places where Chip+PIN would most likely be required: small un-attended train stations, or gas stations. We're still aren't planning to drive, but this next trip, we very likely will be a some very small train stations.

We've avoided the "small train station" problem in the past by purchasing all train tickets in advance, either before departing from home, or at a hotel along the way.
But this time, we may be more spontaneous, and decide almost on the spot if there is an intermediate location we'd like to see, etc.

Just noticed the "fine print" on the PenFed website, that ALL (my caps) cards will allow BOTH signature or PIN, and the processor will "decide", such as an attended place where they want to check the signature for verification.
Will this cause a problem of "default to signature" at an unattended station, because that option is enabled?

[Uh, when was the last time someone *really* inspected the signature "for verification"? :annoyed )

Thanks very much.

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.

rcsracing
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:16 am
Location: Slovakia (expat)

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by rcsracing » Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:07 am

The "default" to Chip+Signature hasn't been a big issue since I've lived over here, it just makes it a bit more challenging if the clerk hasn't worked with signature much.

For all of the automated kiosk type stuff, the card has worked with my PIN (and sometimes not even that if it was a low amount).

richardglm
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:42 pm

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by richardglm » Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:47 pm

ResearchMed wrote:Just noticed the "fine print" on the PenFed website, that ALL (my caps) cards will allow BOTH signature or PIN, and the processor will "decide", such as an attended place where they want to check the signature for verification.
Will this cause a problem of "default to signature" at an unattended station, because that option is enabled?


Even the fine print is not entirely accurate. The reality is that the transaction proceeds like a negotiation. The chip in the card proposes verification methods in a fixed order, and the merchant's terminal chooses to accept or reject each method as it's offered.

The PenFed card always proposes signature first. In Europe, most terminals staffed by a person and that can print a receipt with signature line will accept this method. This is why you'll usually still have to sign for most purchases.

Other times, the terminal will reject the signature method. Like in gas pump and train stations. Then unlike most American cards, the PenFed card will propose PIN, which most terminals in Europe will accept. Then you will be prompted to enter your PIN.

The last proposal method is no verification at all. The PenFed card will only reach this if the merchant rejects both signature and PIN, that can actually happen if the purchase amount is below some threshold. Then the transaction proceeds without any signature or PIN. Of course, if the merchant rejects signature, PIN, and no verification, then the transaction is declined entirely as there's no other options.

Many people have had success in Europe with PenFed cards at PIN requiring terminals, so I wouldn't worry if you are carrying this card. As a backup, many US debit cards are now being issued with chip. You can always try your chipped debit card with your PIN for that account.

conroy
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2014 5:07 pm

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by conroy » Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:37 pm

The new Barclays JetBlue cards announced this week are all chip+pin with no foreign transaction fee, including the no-annual-fee version.
They also seem to be pretty good deals if you like flying jetblue, especially compared to other airline cards.

I just signed up for the plus card and set a reminder for next year to reevaluate whether to keep it or downgrade to the free card
http://millionmilesecrets.com/2016/03/1 ... her-perks/

ChosenGSR
Posts: 137
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:12 pm

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by ChosenGSR » Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:22 pm

richardglm wrote:Many people have had success in Europe with PenFed cards at PIN requiring terminals, so I wouldn't worry if you are carrying this card. As a backup, many US debit cards are now being issued with chip. You can always try your chipped debit card with your PIN for that account.


I'm heading to Ireland with PenFed Platinum Rewards VISA, hoping you are right and it'll work at unattended terminals.

etarini
Posts: 615
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:46 pm

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by etarini » Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:12 pm

FullYellowJacket wrote:Andrew Federal Credit Union has a card that has Chip and Pin. 0% foreign transaction fees and no annual fee. It annoyingly defaults to Chip and Sig if the reader allows it. I suspect many of these other cards do the same thing.


I have a "real" chip and pin credit card from State Department Federal Credit Union (no annual fee, no markup on foreign purchases), and it does the same thing - even when I thought it would prompt me for my PIN. It does depend upon the capabilities of the point-of-sale device and how it's programmed. Back in 2013, outside London, I was able to use my SDFCU card to get train tickets at an unattended station, but only because it chose not to prompt me. I was SO looking forward to using my PIN.

Last year, on a European trip, I used the same card and was never prompted for a PIN, but then again, we were never anywhere that was unattended.

Eric

richardglm
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:42 pm

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by richardglm » Sun Mar 13, 2016 12:45 am

ChosenGSR wrote:
richardglm wrote:Many people have had success in Europe with PenFed cards at PIN requiring terminals, so I wouldn't worry if you are carrying this card. As a backup, many US debit cards are now being issued with chip. You can always try your chipped debit card with your PIN for that account.


I'm heading to Ireland with PenFed Platinum Rewards VISA, hoping you are right and it'll work at unattended terminals.


Ireland doesn't have that many truly unattended terminals. Often an unattended machine rings an attendant who comes and verifies your signature. The PenFed card doesn't help with this since it always proposes signature first. For Irish Rail, I always buy online beforehand and pick up at the station, which better guarantees a ticket (although the trains rarely sell out)

The no foreign transaction fee feature of the PenFed card is very useful, though. Watch out for Dynamic Currency Conversion: Ireland is a tourist-heavy destination and many places will want to charge you in US Dollars. With the PenFed card, always charge in Euro only!

Otherwise, the country is a very lovely place and the people are incredibly friendly.

tshort
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:21 pm

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by tshort » Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:41 pm

I can confirm two chip+PIN priority credit cards:

  • UNFCU Visa (any of them)
  • Target MasterCard

I have used both of these cards at various stores in Germany, Austria and the Netherlands in December 2015. The UNFCU card was used in Italy in April. A PIN was always requested, and the salesclerk was pleasantly surprised that an American had a chip+PIN card.

Target card is easy to get, and offers 5% off at Target stores. The website is fairly easy to use, but requires a phone call to note travel plans. It is very easy to add new card users online. Each card user has their own card number and PIN. Users choose their PIN when activating their card. Even though there are different card numbers, the statements do not indicate which transaction was done by which card (which would be awesome if they could do it). Target cards have no foreign transaction fees.

UNFCU (United Nations Federal Credit Union) requires joining UNA-USA, the "United Nations Association of the United States of America", which requires a small tax-deductible donation. You end up signing up for a savings/banking account, and then apply for the credit card. The website is not very easy to use; the credit card seems very distinct from the rest of the (banking) accounts. Adding travel plans requires a phone call. Adding new card users requires FAXing a form to UNFCU. Each card user shares one card number and PIN, which is assigned to you. The foreign transaction fee depends on which card you get; it is 0% with the highest-level card.

I'm considering the JetBlue Barclay's card, if it really supports chip+PIN (since I primarily fly JetBlue).
I also have a Bank of America card, but have not tried using that card overseas, yet (but will soon); I have the cash advance PIN.

rooms222
Posts: 270
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:12 pm

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by rooms222 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:06 am

I believe Target is only issuing store cards to new applicants.

The UN Credit Union Card is the only pin priority, offline pin card that is being issued in the U.S. right now. The application process is slow and a little cumbersome, but doable.

smackboy1
Posts: 904
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:41 pm

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by smackboy1 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:12 am

Nevermind. Target Mastercard is not accepting new applications.

Target REDcard is now EMV (chip + PIN)

http://blog.credit.com/2015/10/target-b ... ds-127551/

zero foreign transaction fee

We have store only version and it doesn't even ask for signature, only PIN.
Disclaimer: nothing written here should be taken as legal advice, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

user5027
Posts: 738
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:54 pm

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by user5027 » Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:26 pm

user5027 wrote:I've had a Target REDcard for a few years and only used it for the occasional purchase at Target for the 5% reward.

They recently sent me a new card and said it was chip and pin.

We have had issues travelling in europe before with our US cards not being true chip and pin. We usually use our Discover (part of Diners Club) or Capital One Visa since they have no foreign transaction fees and always have a fair exchange rate but they were not true chip and pin. I recall problems in Denmark at food stores and learned to always carry currency just in case.

We plan to be in Italy soon and I was researching buying train tickets and they mentioned using ticket machines on the platforms but to be sure you have a chip and pin card. I guess that is similar to the unmanned gas stations.

I checked the REDcard website. They were Visa but are now Master Card with the new cards and have no foreign transaction fee. It will be interesting to see how it works in Italy.


Update - When I called Target RedCard to advise them of our travel I was informed the card is only for Target stores and Target.com

We had little issues with our chip and sign Capital One Visa Ventrue One except when paying the flight attendant on Aer Lingus and at a train ticket kiosk machine. Used cash for both of those.

ourbrooks
Posts: 1575
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:56 pm

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by ourbrooks » Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:30 pm

Does anyone have experience with either bank debit cards or prepaid debit cards, if they have a chip? (I would use the debit card on an account that had a minimum amount of funds in it.)

protagonist
Posts: 4838
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:47 pm

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by protagonist » Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:50 pm

centrifuge41 wrote:
inspector00 wrote:It has an annual fee but Barclay's arrival plus should give you a real chip and pin.

Arrival non-plus is chip and pin, and has no AMF.


I'm planning to downgrade my Arrival Plus card to the free version this week.

Has anybody tried it with success in Europe with chip and pin machines?

Supposedly it also does not charge a foreign transaction fee.

(I don't know what "AMF" means, sorry.....)

Here is a summary of options as of August 2015: http://milecards.com/6084/3-full-chip-p ... h-no-fees/

protagonist
Posts: 4838
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:47 pm

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by protagonist » Thu Jun 02, 2016 4:52 pm

Another question:

Card providers recommend using a chip-and-pin card with a live merchant before using it in a machine, to activate it.

If the card has been used in a domestic (USA) chip reader with a live merchant, will that qualify?

User avatar
rob
Posts: 2829
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:49 pm
Location: Here

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by rob » Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:06 pm

I have been unable to get an app for Barclay cards for a few weeks now - They just say check back later. Not sure if others get the same thing.
| Rob | Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien

User avatar
friar1610
Posts: 978
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: MA South Shore

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by friar1610 » Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:25 pm

NFCU (Navy Federal) Visa here. Made sure I had a PIN before recent trip to England and Amsterdam. It never worked as a chip and PIN. The little machine always spit out a slip for signature. A few times the clerks looked surprised. I called NFCU when I got home and asked why it wouldn't work with a PIN. The guy I talked to didn't have a clue.
Friar1610

nps
Posts: 425
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:18 am

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by nps » Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:42 pm

friar1610 wrote:NFCU (Navy Federal) Visa here. Made sure I had a PIN before recent trip to England and Amsterdam. It never worked as a chip and PIN. The little machine always spit out a slip for signature. A few times the clerks looked surprised. I called NFCU when I got home and asked why it wouldn't work with a PIN. The guy I talked to didn't have a clue.


That's disappointing. I just applied for that card after returning from Europe last week and having been unable to rent a bike at a kiosk without a chip + PIN. Some website said this card allowed chip + PIN transactions, and the NFCU website implies it as well.

richardglm
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:42 pm

Re: How to get a real Chip and Pin card?

Post by richardglm » Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:19 pm

friar1610 wrote:NFCU (Navy Federal) Visa here. Made sure I had a PIN before recent trip to England and Amsterdam. It never worked as a chip and PIN. The little machine always spit out a slip for signature. A few times the clerks looked surprised. I called NFCU when I got home and asked why it wouldn't work with a PIN. The guy I talked to didn't have a clue.


The Navy Federal cards are Chip+Signature preferring with Chip+PIN fallback. This means that any terminal that can print a signature slip (virtually all of them, even in Europe) will require signature and never ask for PIN. At places where PIN is required, you can use your NFCU credit card with its PIN.

nps wrote:That's disappointing. I just applied for that card after returning from Europe last week and having been unable to rent a bike at a kiosk without a chip + PIN. Some website said this card allowed chip + PIN transactions, and the NFCU website implies it as well.


It does allow Chip+PIN transactions, so you would have been fine at your bike kiosk. The card simply prefers Chip+Signature.

Post Reply