Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

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blmarsha123
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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by blmarsha123 » Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:53 am

AdmiralJJ wrote:...For the engineers and software people here, I wonder what they think retirement means.

Interested in your thoughts and expectations.
As a former software engineer, retirement so far has been 100% retired (zero daytime TV for me).

I think a still somewhat foul taste at how my former employer handled my separation could be to blame for me not trying to work post-retirement. I've thought about part time work (one-two days a week or targeted 6-8 week projects). But I had to ask myself that if at my age, I really wanted to have to market myself through LinkedIn, become proficient in game theory speak, and just act thrilled you know, to work in a cubicle with dogs and kids. If my dusty old MS CS, 40 years of software training, and recent work history doesn't speak loud enough...

Any hoe ...

I was fortunate to get a DB pension which along with about two years of cash (expenses), means I won't have to touch investments or SS for a while. Am in good health and enjoying full retirement with the love of my life. What more is there, really?

joebh
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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by joebh » Sun Mar 06, 2016 12:16 pm

AdmiralJJ wrote:As I read these posts I often see people talk about retiring at a set age, say 55, and I'm just wondering if the goal for most of you is to quit working totally.

That is, go from being a thrifty, no-Starbucks, pavement pounder for 30 years into watching Arsenio reruns 7 hours a day?
You have a rather limited viewpoint on what it means to "quit working totally". Perhaps you are too young to imagine keeping yourself busy in ways that don't qualify as "working".

I retired last year at 60, after 45 years of work.

My plan was to spend at least a year trying out different non-work activities, in order to determine what I really liked, and how I wanted to plan my week. One of the great things about not "working totally" is that you have time to try things out and see how they feel. In my case, my wife is still working so that limited the selection somewhat (no "travel around the world" scenarios), but I still found it difficult to fit everything I wanted to do in a week.

In summary, I spent more time doing things I had always enjoyed, but didn't have time for while working.

I took long walks more, I volunteered more, I cooked more, I spent more time outside, I played my guitar more, I babysat my grandchildren more, I went to lunch with friends, family, and neighbors more, I read more, I exercised more, I visited my parents more. In short, I did much more of what I liked, and much less of what I didn't like.

Recently, I was contacted by a former employer and asked if I could help them out. I agreed to consult with them on Mondays and Tuesday for the next few months, then we'll see where it goes. I don''t ever intend to work full time again. And if part-time work doesn't feel like fun, I'll simply stop. It's amazing how different it is to work, when you know you are financially independent.

One thing I haven't done is start watching television. Perhaps that's your vision of what you will do when you "quit working totally", but I don't share that vision.
I wonder if folks who work very, very hard expect that they'll be happy if they go from very full work lives to "full-time" retirement.
I worked very, very hard my whole life. I do expect to be very happy. If my less-than-one-year experience so far is any indication, I certainly will be. The future looks great to me.
In my limited observations, the people who are happiest in that type of transition were people who pretty much hated their jobs (I come from auto worker country). They have that 30 years marked on a calendar the day they started. For the engineers and software people here, I wonder what they think retirement means.
That's a very limited observation. I have been in software for over 35 years. I loved my career. And I liked many of the jobs I held, while loving many (not all).

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SeeMoe
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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by SeeMoe » Sun Mar 06, 2016 12:44 pm

Been retired over 20 years and continued investing until last year with Vanguard. Still do shovel excess bucks over to the PMM or the Limited Tax Exempt bond funds. Went from the crime ridden streets of Philly to our bucolic cottage in unstate Pa. Where my job was taking care of the place cutting grass, painting, Etc. and unwinding from the city rat race job. It took years to do, and we also traveled the world until home looked better than Gizborne n.z, Stalingrad on Volga or the Seine on a rainy day. Can the first days and weeks of " freedom," and remember the indescribable taste of doing as you please, when you please. Still have occasional dreams about work which evolves around being 5 minutes late for a conference, not having shaved, a spot on the tie, efficiency reports, shoes not shined properly, Etc. Then I come awake, smile, and roll over in bed hugging my lady...
SeeMoe.. :mrgreen:
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MandyT
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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by MandyT » Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:06 pm

I'm considering retiring at age 55 in the summer of 2017. I have some skills and interests that have a good chance of leading to part-time paying work. If something interesting comes along and I feel like doing it, I will probably say yes. To me, having the option of saying no makes all the difference.

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by stoptothink » Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:58 pm

Wife and I have been talking a lot about this recently. Neither one of us can see us totally retiring, maybe ever. While there are absolutely days when I would rather be somewhere else, I honestly don't know that I would with myself otherwise. My wife actually feels the same way. Of course this will change as our children get older (currently 4 and 10-months) and then even move out and then grandkids come, but right now I don't think "full-time" retirement will ever happen. I currently teach one class a semester at a local university, maybe I'll quite the 9-5 and teach a little more. One of my colleagues recently semi-retired, he just gave up his position as a director and now works for us as a contractor, when and how much he wants. More than anything I just want options, that is what we are working and saving towards.

J295
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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by J295 » Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:26 pm

Went part-time at age 53, which was 3 years ago. Progression was 40% work load first year, then 25% work load second year, and now at 10% work load.
Never bored. Perfect transition for my spouse and I (all three kids are grown). Taking this part-time work year to year and if I'm ever not interested or not confident I can do the work with vigor and professionalism (in the narrow area where I work part time) I will go to "full time" retirment.

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HomerJ
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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by HomerJ » Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:15 pm

J295 wrote:now at 10% work load.
How do you contribute anything useful at 10% work load?
Perfect transition for my spouse and I (all three kids are grown).
I agree. Congrats on the sweet deal.

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by Elsebet » Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:12 pm

My plan is to leave full-time work at 55. At my company it's pretty common for office people who semi-retire from corporate to go work in a retail location part-time, so I may do that if it's still available. Otherwise I'll get a part-time job doing something more people-oriented. I'm in IT and spend way too much time just staring at a screen. I'd love to work in an airport, garden center, or movie theater. I already volunteer a lot with the Master Gardener Foundation and SPCA so I'll increase the time I can spend there too.

J295
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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by J295 » Tue Mar 08, 2016 8:27 am

HomerJ » Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:15 pm

J295 wrote:
now at 10% work load.


How do you contribute anything useful at 10% work load?

Perfect transition for my spouse and I (all three kids are grown).


I agree. Congrats on the sweet deal.
Very legitimate question on contributions at a 10% workload.

My situation is quite unique, and truth be told I'm just very fortunate that it morphed into what it is because I have trouble coming up with scenarios where someone can log it at 10% and have a mutually beneficial outcome.

I am a professional and was one of the firm owners before my early transition, and since transition I restrict my work to an area where I have particular expertise and relationships that make it logical for me to continue at this modest load rather than be replaced. I make sure the relationship brings value not only to me, but also to the firm. There has been respect and a strong sense of fair play in the relationship during my term of ownership and since that time, which makes it work. Also, I spent many years before transition working with team members so they could carry on with me part time and then without me when that time occurs.

In large part though, as I stated, I'm lucky.

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by flyingaway » Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:00 am

At my university, employees can have a 5-year phase-out retirement. The workload and salary are reduced 20% each year, with full benefits. Once the phase-out retirement starts, it cannot be reversed or stopped. A good thing is that employees do not have performance review in phase-out retirement. My department currently has two professors on phase-out retirement. One started at 72, another started at 62 with Parkinson's disease.

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by mak1277 » Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:56 am

I don't want to steal Victoria's thunder, but I definitely think the question in the OP is a false dichotomy. There are many ways to enjoy retirement without becoming a shiftless layabout. Travel, volunteering, hobbies, family...the examples provided by the posters in this thread are exactly the information that points out the flaw in the original question.

As for me, the worst part of my day is work...I don't see any reason to continue to engage in activities that I don't enjoy when I finally have enough money to stop doing them. Next step on my hit list is figuring out how to convince my wife that I don't need to do the dishes either!

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by tnr » Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:24 am

I also plan to do the phased retirement when I turn 62. I'm turning 60 this year. At 62, I'd like to reduce to 80% for the next 3 years and then retire full time.

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by MandyT » Tue Mar 08, 2016 12:27 pm

tnr wrote:I also plan to do the phased retirement when I turn 62. I'm turning 60 this year. At 62, I'd like to reduce to 80% for the next 3 years and then retire full time.
One of my friends (a physician) did a phased retirement, but it didn't look or sound to me as if she was doing any less work once she was getting paid less.

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by plnelson » Tue Mar 08, 2016 2:09 pm

AdmiralJJ wrote:As I read these posts I often see people talk about retiring at a set age, say 55, and I'm just wondering if the goal for most of you is to quit working totally.

That is, go from being a thrifty, no-Starbucks, pavement pounder for 30 years into watching Arsenio reruns 7 hours a day?
I don't watch TV. I expect to travel, do art, have adventures when I retire at the end of this year. (I'm 63)

I have to retire "full time" because I took some bad financial advice when I was young. Everyone told us that we should plow money into our 401(k)'s because surely our tax bracket would be lower in retirement, so by deferring taxes from our high income years to our retirement years we would be tax-advantaged (Roth was not offered to us most of that time)

So I did and so did my late wife. We put in the maximum the law allowed. Every year of our working lives. We also invested it well. When she died I inherited her half. Now I'm sitting on IRA's in the millions. On top of that I have two pensions (I thought I had one and only recently discovered that I'm getting a second pension much bigger than the one I thought I had!) I also have substantial non-deferred saving that I can live on for years. I'm delaying Social Security until 70. So my plan is to quit and live on my non-deferred savings so I'll be in a 0% base tax bracket so I can start drawing down some of my IRA's ahead of the required minimums at 70.5, or do a Roth conversion on them.

Bottom line is that between the pensions, the IRA's I need to pull down and the SS and required minimum IRA after 70, I expect to owe more taxes than during my working years, so working even part time will only make that worse. (believe me, I'm not complaining - I realize I'm very fortunate to have this "problem" - but it does complicate things)

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by BahamaMan » Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:20 pm

plnelson wrote:
AdmiralJJ wrote:I have to retire "full time" because I took some bad financial advice when I was young. Everyone told us that we should plow money into our 401(k)'s because surely our tax bracket would be lower in retirement, so by deferring taxes from our high income years to our retirement years we would be tax-advantaged (Roth was not offered to us most of that time)

So I did and so did my late wife. We put in the maximum the law allowed. Every year of our working lives. We also invested it well. When she died I inherited her half. Now I'm sitting on IRA's in the millions.
How was that "Bad Financial Advice"? If you had not put it a tax deferred account, you would have had to pay taxes on the gains every year! Plus you would have had to pay taxes every year on the contributions .... You also had compounding on the money that you would have forked over in Taxes..... You probably made out very well !

I think it was very good advice! .....

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by bbees » Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:47 pm

I worked for a state agency for 42 years, I am retired, if I do something for somebody it will be voluntarily. I have built some things for former peers at no charge and only because I always thought of it as kind of fun.

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by tnr » Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:15 pm

MandyT wrote:One of my friends (a physician) did a phased retirement, but it didn't look or sound to me as if she was doing any less work once she was getting paid less.
Yes, that is a danger but I'm pretty good at leaving work at the office. I like my job; I work with rare disease clinical researchers and I want to do that as long as I'm needed but perhaps less than full time.

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obgyn65
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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by obgyn65 » Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:27 pm

I retired from my full time position last year but I still see some patients part time. I like what I do, but I can no longer do it full time. Instead, I invest more time in volunteering. TV is not my thing.
"The two most important days in someone's life are the day that they are born and the day they discover why." -John Maxwell

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Will do good
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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by Will do good » Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:43 pm

obgyn65 wrote:I retired from my full time position last year but I still see some patients part time. I like what I do, but I can no longer do it full time. Instead, I invest more time in volunteering. TV is not my thing.
I think most of our "successful" BH are not TV people. We spend decades focused on our careers thus never got in the habit of watch hours and hours of mindless TV :D

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by cheese_breath » Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:16 am

Will do good wrote: I think most of our "successful" BH are not TV people. We spend decades focused on our careers thus never got in the habit of watch hours and hours of mindless TV :D
So even though I was able to accumulate enough to retire early, because I spent time relaxing after work watching “mindless TV” (and in fact I still watch some) instead of devoting every last second to grubbing after the very last penny I’m unworthy to consider myself a Boglehead? Good to know. Guess I’ll just curl up in the corner with some moldy cheese.
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by AlwaysaQ » Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:28 am

Cheese_breath

+1 There are differing ways of relaxing and dealing with stress. I used to be a voracious reader but now I am apt to fall asleep when I read. I limit the tv watching but I do watch.

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by cheese_breath » Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:37 am

AlwaysaQ wrote:Cheese_breath

+1 There are differing ways of relaxing and dealing with stress. I used to be a voracious reader but now I am apt to fall asleep when I read. I limit the tv watching but I do watch.
Thanks for the encouragement. I don't spend my whole life in front of the TV either, but it does annoy me when some people presume their choice of lifestyle is superior to that of others.
The surest way to know the future is when it becomes the past.

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by Ybsybs » Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:42 am

cheese_breath wrote:
Will do good wrote: I think most of our "successful" BH are not TV people. We spend decades focused on our careers thus never got in the habit of watch hours and hours of mindless TV :D
So even though I was able to accumulate enough to retire early, because I spent time relaxing after work watching “mindless TV” (and in fact I still watch some) instead of devoting every last second to grubbing after the very last penny I’m unworthy to consider myself a Boglehead? Good to know. Guess I’ll just curl up in the corner with some moldy cheese.
Entertainment available to the poor never gets respect. When someday section eight housing has virtual reality headsets at every bunkbed, television may finally join live theatre and orchestra as suitably high brow. Imagine history students at Harvard studying Here Comes Honey Boo Boo as the Shakespeare of the twenty teens. :shock:

And to the retirement question: Absolutely not. Despite saving for an early retirement, I have no intention of retiring at all. My savings will instead allow my work to be decoupled from pay.

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by Da5id » Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:56 am

cheese_breath wrote:
Will do good wrote: I think most of our "successful" BH are not TV people. We spend decades focused on our careers thus never got in the habit of watch hours and hours of mindless TV :D
So even though I was able to accumulate enough to retire early, because I spent time relaxing after work watching “mindless TV” (and in fact I still watch some) instead of devoting every last second to grubbing after the very last penny I’m unworthy to consider myself a Boglehead? Good to know. Guess I’ll just curl up in the corner with some moldy cheese.
The post you were responding to does sound a bit judgmental/self-congratulatory. No "true" BH watches much TV (kind of like no "true" Scotsman does xyz)...

That said, the concern of the OP that his life post-retirement could devolve into sitting in front of the TV much of the time reflects that the OP in this thread doesn't find such a prospect appealing. It is thus nice (without attacking those who enjoy TV) for folks to share their experiences that this need not be one's main activity.

Not yet retired, so not lots of opinions on how the time will be filled for me when the time comes. But certain it is worth thinking about, and many threads have touched on that.

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by MandyT » Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:59 am

I think I agree with one of OP's underlying ideas, which is that workers who are focused on "retiring from" their job, with its stress and its demands on their time, might find it a hard adjustment if they're not "retiring to" something, since they might not have realized the degree to which their job provided identity, purpose, and social opportunities.

I remember reading here http://www.retireearlyhomepage.com/mbti.html that the Myers-Briggs personality types ISTJ, INTJ, and INTP seem to be represented much more heavily among early retirees than among the general population. This information is old and I doubt that it would hold up to scientific scrutiny, but it makes sense to me that (1) introverts and thinkers are most likely to have anticipated what retirement would be like and planned their transition, and (2) extroverts and feelers are most likely to miss the social aspect of working and are also less likely to be planners by nature.

I'm an INTJ who is considering retiring at 55 (in about a year and a half). In the few weeks since I started thinking about this, I've spent a fair amount of time thinking about what's next, and it's pretty exciting. But I like the idea that, if I want to spend a couple of days binge-watching some TV show, I can do that, and I don't have to feel guilty because I "should" be doing something else.

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by carolinaman » Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:59 am

My retirement is a blend of doing things I always wanted to do: traveling, hobbies and "giving back". I do volunteer work at my church, other Christian ministries and serve on the board of a retiree association. All of these help me do some useful things and keep my brain engaged. For me, balance is the key, being able to do things I enjoy with part of my time but doing volunteer work too. I had the option to do some consulting shortly after retirement but quickly turned it down. I still enjoy working, but not for a pay check.

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by feh » Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:17 pm

I've been lining up my full-time retirement date of April 2016 for 2 years now. As the date approached, I have shifted to requesting part-time (2 days/week) instead. Mostly because I think it will be less of a shock.

Assuming I enjoy the additional free time, I envision going cold turkey in about a year.

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by 6miths » Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:04 pm

I consider myself retired full-time. I still do some fun stuff that they pay me a bit for but I would definitely do it for free and did in the past. It's just a bonus and keeps my mind engaged and makes me feel like I'm still contributing.
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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by Ron » Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:18 pm

MandyT wrote:<snip...> This information is old and I doubt that it would hold up to scientific scrutiny, but it makes sense to me that (1) introverts and thinkers are most likely to have anticipated what retirement would be like and planned their transition, and (2) extroverts and feelers are most likely to miss the social aspect of working and are also less likely to be planners by nature.

I'm an INTJ who is considering retiring at 55 (in about a year and a half). In the few weeks since I started thinking about this, I've spent a fair amount of time thinking about what's next, and it's pretty exciting. But I like the idea that, if I want to spend a couple of days binge-watching some TV show, I can do that, and I don't have to feel guilty because I "should" be doing something else.
.
As a "certified INTJ" (tested more than once during my working years), I would have to agree.

I had a career in the IT field for decades - even before it was known as IT :wink: . In some of my later career positions, I had to really put myself out there, even though I had to struggle to "put on a face" of a well functioning extrovert - even though I was the exact opposite in nature.

Retiring at the age of 59 (nine years ago), I certainly looked forward to the time that I could make my time my own - not somebody else's, and I never have had a regret of missing the interaction of others on a daily basis. Sure, I interact today with my family and with my volunteer work, but it is on my own terms/schedules.

I guess you can say that I was made for retirement; and no, I never feel guilty feeling that I must/should be doing something in order to not "waste my time".

FWIW,

- Ron

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by FullYellowJacket » Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:04 pm

I work at the job of my dreams. I like going to work everyday and working with the people I work with. I do not dread Mondays. I plan on working hard until the day I retire.

Having said that, my most boring Saturdays and Sundays are more enjoyable for me than my best days of work. I look forward to when every day of the week is Saturday.

As a side note: OPs original post did come off as defensive and arrogant.

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by Will do good » Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:16 pm

cheese_breath wrote:
Will do good wrote: I think most of our "successful" BH are not TV people. We spend decades focused on our careers thus never got in the habit of watch hours and hours of mindless TV :D
So even though I was able to accumulate enough to retire early, because I spent time relaxing after work watching “mindless TV” (and in fact I still watch some) instead of devoting every last second to grubbing after the very last penny I’m unworthy to consider myself a Boglehead? Good to know. Guess I’ll just curl up in the corner with some moldy cheese.
Got a little sensitive?

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by stvbis » Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:32 pm

I am getting really close to retiring at 59.5 and plan on a "Full Retirement" scenario, however my girlfriend is afraid I will be bored, not have enough work related drama to stay interesting, and get out of touch with what's going on. We both work in the same industry so we have had a lot in common and that will change. In my mind though, I won't miss the work or professional socialization I have to endure now. I will be able to pursue all the things I've been too busy to do all these years. Learn to Sail, take a Spanish class, spend more time with distant family and friends, fish a little more and read a lot more. I may volunteer at church or with wounded warriors as both interest me. I am excited about my future but feel it may change the relationship. There is a seven year gap in our ages and she will continue to work for several more years in a job she loves. If anyone can offer some advice from the "Been There - Done That" jar, I would appreciate it...

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by investnoob » Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:36 pm

The answer to this question, I think, is very dependent upon the individual. I plan to retire "full-time" because my career is not intertwined into my personality or identity. That is, my identity or sense of self isn't really wrapped up in my career.

I have other things I want to do, besides work. I plan to pursue those things when I retire. I won't need to work for money. And, I doubt I will want to work for the pleasure of it. If I do "work" it will probably be on a voluntary basis.

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by SouthernCPA » Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:19 pm

Judging by people I've known in my life, those that stay busy with some hobby or continue to engage in business activities that require critical thinking seem to age better.

Although I'm over 30 years from retirement, I don't plan on stopping work completely. I'll probably keep an office open and trim my client list down to those I truly enjoy working with and practice very part time. In 30 years, I may feel completely different, but for now I enjoy serving clients and working in the profession so that's the tentative plan for now.

I don't think I could ever just sit at home and watch fox news all day like some retirees I know. I've got to stay active in the community and business community to keep my sanity. Working a couple days a week, maintaining an office to go to and fishing, golfing or traveling with my wife sounds like my idea of retirement.

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by Elsebet » Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:25 pm

Ron wrote: As a "certified INTJ" (tested more than once during my working years), I would have to agree.

I had a career in the IT field for decades - even before it was known as IT :wink: . In some of my later career positions, I had to really put myself out there, even though I had to struggle to "put on a face" of a well functioning extrovert - even though I was the exact opposite in nature.

Retiring at the age of 59 (nine years ago), I certainly looked forward to the time that I could make my time my own - not somebody else's, and I never have had a regret of missing the interaction of others on a daily basis. Sure, I interact today with my family and with my volunteer work, but it is on my own terms/schedules.

I guess you can say that I was made for retirement; and no, I never feel guilty feeling that I must/should be doing something in order to not "waste my time".
INTJ here also and totally agree with all points. A lot of my co-workers think I'm an extrovert but it's simply my mask. :)

I really need downtime, I'd wager at least 60% alone, out in nature, or with S.O./dogs to 40% public, maybe even 70/30. As it is I'm in an open plan desk for 9+ hours a day M-F. The thing is, I love to work on things of my own and at work I enjoy accomplishing things but I rarely get the satisfaction at work that I do on my own personal projects.

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by Meg77 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:49 pm

It's not just retirees who dream of meaningful, well-paid part time work. That's the fantasy of many a person, particularly caregivers of aging relatives and parents of young kids. If such jobs were widely available, my husband and I would jump on that bandwagon right now - and we are 30-something DINKs! Instead we both work full time and save one salary in hopes we can both afford quit completely in our 40s - even if we end up choosing not to.

Life would be more enjoyable if we all were able to work part time the whole way through, rather than cramming in a lifetime of earnings and work experience into a 15-40 year career span in the middle of our lives (inconveniently during our peak physical and reproductive years). But that's not how our society was established, in part because most women weren't part of the formal workforce until fairly recently. Therefore they were available to take care of most of the "life" stuff - caregiving and home economics - while men focused their attention and time at "work," aka earning money.

My hope is now that both sexes participate increasingly equally in the workforce and at home that the concept of work will shift to accommodate everyone's desire and need for flexibility and down time. I think sabbaticals should be a much more widely used and accepted tool, for example. I wouldn't mind working until age 80 if I could take a year off now and then, work remotely at will, or move to part time periodically and be able to trust that my earning potential wouldn't crumble.
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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by Ari » Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:03 am

I'm often amazed at how people sing the praises of work as a positive thing.

I think there's a psychological phenomenon at play here. There are people who have been put in a wheelchair due to a terrible accident, or wrongfully imprisoned for years, who say things like "It made me who I am" and "I'm not sorry it happened to me". I like reading about the advancements of science in radical life extension (curing aging). There's a similar thing there, where some people argue that we SHOULDN'T attempt to cure aging, that it's a good thing that people get old and weak and sick and die. Yet I'm pretty confident that if we had a world where nobody got old and died of "natural causes", few people would suggest we invent aging to better society. "Wouldn't it be better if everyone got slowly weak and unable to take care of themselves and then died after 80-90 years?".

My point is that when confronted with something inevitable, like work and aging is perceived by most people, there's a natural respone to frame it in a positive light. The protestant work ethic was invented by people who were forced by necessity to spend their days toiling. But I don't see work as inevitable, and I don't think it's a positive thing, but rather a necessary evil.

There are so many things I want to do in this world, and workig for 40 hours per week gets in the way of most of them. I want to write a book, study philosohpy, train martial arts, practice Latin dancing, study languages, play and design roleplaying games, climb mountains, host a YouTube channel, learn to cook, build a 3D printer, read classic literature, meditate, join an improv theatre group, learn to play the guitar, improve my juggling, go skinnydipping, take a long canoe trip, travel, draw and paint, do photography, write poetry, argue on the Internet, do Yoga and Tai Chi, go to the gym every day, talk to interesting people, get a degree in theoretical physics (and another one in linguistics, and probably others, too), make a board game, learn lockpicking, grow a bonsai tree and relax in front of a good movie or TV series. I also might want to make some time for a significant other, though probably not children. And that's just some stuff off the top of my head. I find it very unlikely that I'd get bored without someone telling me what to do for eight hours every day.
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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by HongKonger » Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:48 am

Elsebet wrote:
Ron wrote: As a "certified INTJ" (tested more than once during my working years), I would have to agree.

I had a career in the IT field for decades - even before it was known as IT :wink: . In some of my later career positions, I had to really put myself out there, even though I had to struggle to "put on a face" of a well functioning extrovert - even though I was the exact opposite in nature.

Retiring at the age of 59 (nine years ago), I certainly looked forward to the time that I could make my time my own - not somebody else's, and I never have had a regret of missing the interaction of others on a daily basis. Sure, I interact today with my family and with my volunteer work, but it is on my own terms/schedules.

I guess you can say that I was made for retirement; and no, I never feel guilty feeling that I must/should be doing something in order to not "waste my time".
INTJ here also and totally agree with all points. A lot of my co-workers think I'm an extrovert but it's simply my mask. :)

I really need downtime, I'd wager at least 60% alone, out in nature, or with S.O./dogs to 40% public, maybe even 70/30. As it is I'm in an open plan desk for 9+ hours a day M-F. The thing is, I love to work on things of my own and at work I enjoy accomplishing things but I rarely get the satisfaction at work that I do on my own personal projects.
Another INTJ here and agree 100%. I worked in PR before I pulled the plug so I've talked, schmoozed and interacted for what feels like enough for 2 or 3 lifetimes. Now, I can be alone, do my own projects, talk to no one. I am only now in retirement the real me. No mask. Never been happier.

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by BahamaMan » Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:59 am

Yup, you have to be responsible for your own entertainment when you retire. Some folks just can't handle it. :happy

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by furnace » Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:06 am

Nicolas wrote:I will not work again for money the rest of my life.
Why is that? Do you dislike working or do you dislike money?

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by stoptothink » Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:02 am

Ari wrote:I'm often amazed at how people sing the praises of work as a positive thing.

I think there's a psychological phenomenon at play here. There are people who have been put in a wheelchair due to a terrible accident, or wrongfully imprisoned for years, who say things like "It made me who I am" and "I'm not sorry it happened to me". I like reading about the advancements of science in radical life extension (curing aging). There's a similar thing there, where some people argue that we SHOULDN'T attempt to cure aging, that it's a good thing that people get old and weak and sick and die. Yet I'm pretty confident that if we had a world where nobody got old and died of "natural causes", few people would suggest we invent aging to better society. "Wouldn't it be better if everyone got slowly weak and unable to take care of themselves and then died after 80-90 years?".

My point is that when confronted with something inevitable, like work and aging is perceived by most people, there's a natural respone to frame it in a positive light. The protestant work ethic was invented by people who were forced by necessity to spend their days toiling. But I don't see work as inevitable, and I don't think it's a positive thing, but rather a necessary evil.

There are so many things I want to do in this world, and workig for 40 hours per week gets in the way of most of them. I want to write a book, study philosohpy, train martial arts, practice Latin dancing, study languages, play and design roleplaying games, climb mountains, host a YouTube channel, learn to cook, build a 3D printer, read classic literature, meditate, join an improv theatre group, learn to play the guitar, improve my juggling, go skinnydipping, take a long canoe trip, travel, draw and paint, do photography, write poetry, argue on the Internet, do Yoga and Tai Chi, go to the gym every day, talk to interesting people, get a degree in theoretical physics (and another one in linguistics, and probably others, too), make a board game, learn lockpicking, grow a bonsai tree and relax in front of a good movie or TV series. I also might want to make some time for a significant other, though probably not children. And that's just some stuff off the top of my head. I find it very unlikely that I'd get bored without someone telling me what to do for eight hours every day.
For a lot of people, work provides a sense of accomplishment. I very much enjoy teaching, it's something I only do on a part-time basis now (a single class per semester) but likely will increase when I retire from my day job. I'd rather be teaching than do 75% of the things on your list and I think the fact of the matter is, most people will veg (watch a lot of TV, surf the web etc.) instead of doing those things they say they actually want to do. That is fine, if that is what they want to do, but I am the type of person who psychologically needs to be doing productive things.

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by a » Thu Mar 10, 2016 3:39 pm

"I don't see work as inevitable and I don't think it's a positive
thing, but rather a necessary evil."

(The following 2 paragraphs may be obvious to the quotee)

Entropy is the basis of the universe. Therefore if you
wish to feel good (be healthy) and continue to do "fun" things
all of which involve organization of particles into more organized
states, that takes energy, and some fuel and maintenance must be
provided to enable you to do that.

So work is a good thing. Anti-entropy, whether it be in the form
of medical care, or someone building a house for you so the weather
doesnt degrade your body, or someone organizing plants into proper
rows with proper addition of minerals so that food can be grown for
you to supply energy and nutrients to keep your biological machine
oiled and running, is therefore equivalent to the "fun" things
youd "rather" be doing. They are just step #1 in the same process
where step #1 is prepare to do fun things, and step #2 is actually
do the fun things. If your goal in life is to play guitar,
then you can view the taking the guitar out of the case, getting the
music sheets, sitting down with the guitar, as step #1 of the
process, and reading the music and playing the music as step #2.
But it is all "playing guitar" which is your mission in life.
In that sense, you can include: eating the food which gave you
the energy and nutrients to have your brain work and heart beat so
that you could even sit down and begin strumming, as also step #1.
The work you did to enable the guitar playing is just as valuable
and just as inextricable a part of the guitar playing as the
actual playing.

So are you really optimizing your life by making guitar
playing your goal? Wouldn't you be a much happier and better
person if you simply switched your goal to be something that not
only is fun*, but also creates anti-entropy that enables you and
other
people to be more free and have less pain? That is perfectly
possible being the human organism is wired to gain happiness from
helping others.

*Helping others is more fun than guitar playing, or any other
activity that is not directly geared toward helping people. The
reason life doesnt make this obvious for people is, I think, the
miasma that the amygdala combined with language
and the frontal lobes (logical thought) .. the trap that
the uniquely new evolved human brain commonly falls into, makes
people believe the opposite. What trap? Basically, the thing
cognitive behavioral therapy attempts to undo/remove.

Organisms are designed to enjoy both step#1 and step#2. Evolution
contains laws requiring that any successful organism will derive
"pleasure" from existing and from doing things that contribute to
existence. An organism that did not, by mathematical definition,
would become extinct very fast.

--

"I find it unlikely that I'd get bored without someone telling
me what to do for eight hours a day."

I think you would. At the moment, you are super-saturated with
being told what to do**, so a dearth of that WOULD bring
pleasure.
Homeostasis. However, after a short time of being totally free,
your body will wake up and remember that it needs, to be truly
have all 100% of the brain be humming at satisfied levels, to
be benefiting others with one's goals in life. Actions arise
from goals. An organism that truly has no goals will not evolve
any actions and will just sit there, breathing, eating and
sleeping. This is why nouveau riche often turn to drugs. They
need engage in little action to satisfy the aforementioned 3
goals and so the satisfaction that arises through work is
missing. The brain is starving for that satisfied feeling and
attempts to fill it through T.V., drugs, over-flavored food,
massages, and even mindless social interaction, all of which are
drugs.*
(A drug does not have to be a laboratory synthesized pure
chemical compound. The definition of a drug is any ingested
substance
or stimulation that occurs in concentrations un-found in the
natural evolutionary world.)

*Even "work" (in the common misunderstood use of the term)
that makes good money is a drug. It staves off the feeling of
knowing deep down that one does not contribute anything meaningful
to others with one's actions. Because you PASTE OVER with a
fallacy that you _are_ creating something "Good" with your
time/effort.

**What i mean is: Homeostasis will push all of us back toward
work at some point. But externally driven work and internally
driven work are 2 completely different things and it's a shame
English uses the word "work" for both. Internally driven work
has a much higher set point than externally driven work.

Why is benefiting others hard-wired?
It may be related to what made bacteria clump together
into aggregations, with one unified purpose and shared
thread of life (if one sector of the clump dies the rest
goes too), while each sector retained a specializa
tion. Humans or chimpanzees are analogous to the individual
bacteria, and the human species as a whole is the
clump of bacteria.

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by kelway » Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:10 pm

41 now and have the controls set for departure at 48.... Then, I look forward to getting hired to do a low-stress simple job (like Home Depot or something) and then the moment the assistant manager says something to me that I do not like, I will respectfully leave. Rinse/ repeat. It's that freedom that I'm saving for. For the time I'm not at the part-time job, it will be photography, woodworking, and hiking... where and when I want. And I can't wait.

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by VictoriaF » Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:49 pm

Ari wrote:I'm often amazed at how people sing the praises of work as a positive thing.

I think there's a psychological phenomenon at play here. There are people who have been put in a wheelchair due to a terrible accident, or wrongfully imprisoned for years, who say things like "It made me who I am" and "I'm not sorry it happened to me". I like reading about the advancements of science in radical life extension (curing aging). There's a similar thing there, where some people argue that we SHOULDN'T attempt to cure aging, that it's a good thing that people get old and weak and sick and die. Yet I'm pretty confident that if we had a world where nobody got old and died of "natural causes", few people would suggest we invent aging to better society. "Wouldn't it be better if everyone got slowly weak and unable to take care of themselves and then died after 80-90 years?".

My point is that when confronted with something inevitable, like work and aging is perceived by most people, there's a natural respone to frame it in a positive light. The protestant work ethic was invented by people who were forced by necessity to spend their days toiling. But I don't see work as inevitable, and I don't think it's a positive thing, but rather a necessary evil.
Excellent point! People with high happiness set-points tend to find a silver lining in even horrendous clouds. But it does not mean that horrendous clouds should be everyone's destiny, and even naturally happy people would have chosen better outcomes if they could.
Ari wrote:There are so many things I want to do in this world, and workig for 40 hours per week gets in the way of most of them. I want to write a book, study philosohpy, train martial arts, practice Latin dancing, study languages, play and design roleplaying games, climb mountains, host a YouTube channel, learn to cook, build a 3D printer, read classic literature, meditate, join an improv theatre group, learn to play the guitar, improve my juggling, go skinnydipping, take a long canoe trip, travel, draw and paint, do photography, write poetry, argue on the Internet, do Yoga and Tai Chi, go to the gym every day, talk to interesting people, get a degree in theoretical physics (and another one in linguistics, and probably others, too), make a board game, learn lockpicking, grow a bonsai tree and relax in front of a good movie or TV series. I also might want to make some time for a significant other, though probably not children. And that's just some stuff off the top of my head. I find it very unlikely that I'd get bored without someone telling me what to do for eight hours every day.
Wow! Your list is even bigger than mine. Are your interests in joggling, theoretical physics, and lockpicking influenced by Richard Feynman?

Victoria
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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by Golfview » Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:14 pm

quantAndHold wrote:The reason I want to retire early is because I have a lot that I want to do that I don't have enough time for when I'm working. Travel, sports, art, volunteering. Working some more isn't on that list.

The only thing that would send me back to work is if I couldn't get health insurance another way.
Obama care! :happy

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by Nicolas » Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:09 pm

furnace wrote:
Nicolas wrote:I will not work again for money the rest of my life.
Why is that? Do you dislike working or do you dislike money?
I don't dislike money, far from it. I don't in theory dislike working either but I do dislike the work I'm currently doing, it's boring and pointless, but it does pay fairly well. I haven't really enjoyed much of my work the last 46 years. I did it because I had to do it. And since I have enough money now I will retire. I don't forsee working for money again. I don't think anyone would hire me for work I truly enjoy. Actually I don't know what I would enjoy doing, as a job. It's been too long. I think I'll just hang it up here.

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by 22twain » Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:48 pm

Golfview wrote:
quantAndHold wrote:The only thing that would send me back to work is if I couldn't get health insurance another way.
Obama care! :happy
[OT comment removed - moderator prudent]
My investing princiPLEs do not include absolutely preserving princiPAL.

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by HomerJ » Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:26 pm

a wrote:Helping others is more fun than guitar playing, or any other activity that is not directly geared toward helping people.
Sounds good. Got any proof that this is universally or even generally true?

Can one possibly help others 10 hours a day, and still get in one hour of guitar playing? Or would that pale to helping others 11 hours a day?

How much "help" is sufficient? Could I stand downtown and just open doors for everyone all day long? Or should I be a big-brother to 3 needy kids instead? (Only 3!?) (Only big-brother!? Maybe I should adopt a dozen!)

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by stemikger » Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:09 am

For me, I don't mind work, but I hate the pressure of always wondering if a layoff is around the corner.

With each passing year, and a bigger retirement fund, that pressure goes down a notch or two. I suppose when I'm 60, that notch will pretty much be down to the last few holes. So, who knows, I may like the challenge to see how long I care to stay and of course, what my family situation is at that age.

I have always been lucky to have the kind of personality where I am grateful for whatever comes my way. No matter what job I had, I always took pride in doing the best and in doing that I learned to like jobs most people would think are a means to an end. It's amazing when you look at any job with that attitude, you really learn to enjoy the work.
Choose Simplicity ~ Stay the Course!! ~ Press on Regardless!!!

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Re: Do most of you plan to retire "full-time"?

Post by Ari » Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:25 am

a wrote:Entropy is the basis of the universe. Therefore if you
wish to feel good (be healthy) and continue to do "fun" things
all of which involve organization of particles into more organized
states, that takes energy, and some fuel and maintenance must be
provided to enable you to do that.
Sure.
So work is a good thing. Anti-entropy, whether it be in the form
of medical care, or someone building a house for you so the weather
doesnt degrade your body, or someone organizing plants into proper
rows with proper addition of minerals so that food can be grown for
you to supply energy and nutrients to keep your biological machine
oiled and running, is therefore equivalent to the "fun" things
youd "rather" be doing.
That doesn't follow. "Entropy is the basis of the universe" doesn't mean "Anti-entropy is a good thing". Non sequitor. What's more, work is decidedly NOT anti-entropy. work is using energy to do "useful" things through energy transformation. The laws of thermodynamics state that no energy transformation is perfect; there's always a loss. The more work I do, the more energy is converted into heat, and with each thing I do, I bring the universe a tiny bit closer to its eventual heat death. The only way to fight entropy is to conserve energy, to lose more slowly. You can't win. working will speed up the death of the universe, and doing nothing will postpone it just a little bit.

But I don't think I'll base my life on this principle. :)
Helping others is more fun than guitar playing, or any other
activity that is not directly geared toward helping people. The
reason life doesnt make this obvious for people is, I think, the
miasma that the amygdala combined with language
and the frontal lobes (logical thought) .. the trap that
the uniquely new evolved human brain commonly falls into, makes
people believe the opposite. What trap? Basically, the thing
cognitive behavioral therapy attempts to undo/remove.
Helping others is indeed something that brings happiness, though far from the only thing. I could add "volunteer work" to my list of things I'd like to do in retirement. We've evolved to help each other (especially those genetically related to us), but also to kill each other. Just like I won't base my life on thermodynamics, I think evolution is also a very ill-suited principle on which to build my life.
Actions arise
from goals. An organism that truly has no goals will not evolve
any actions and will just sit there, breathing, eating and
sleeping.
Sure. I posted a long list of goals above. There's no law of nature that says you can't make your own goals in life, or that the only things worth striving for are the things that people are willing to pay you for.
Homeostasis will push all of us back toward
work at some point. But externally driven work and internally
driven work are 2 completely different things and it's a shame
English uses the word "work" for both. Internally driven work
has a much higher set point than externally driven work.
Right. So ... you agree that working for money is less rewarding than setting your own goals in life?
All in, all the time.

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