End of debit cards for me

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Nowizard
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by Nowizard »

For this exact reason, I have never understood why a debit card would be used for anything other than ATM withdrawals. Exactly what is the rationale for using them other than if your account balance is near that of the purchase?

Tim
wolf359
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by wolf359 »

flyingbison wrote:
wolf359 wrote:I never understood why people use debit cards for purchases. I see why it's beneficial for the banks, and for the vendors, but I don't see the benefit for the consumer. If you have a credit card that you pay off each month, why do you ever pull out your debit card?
Some stores don't take credit cards.
Most stores that don't take credit cards don't take debit cards, either. So I use cash in those stores.

If they give a discount for cash, and count debit cards as cash, then I'll use cash.

Both of those examples are comparing cash to debit cards.

But when is using a debit card better than using a credit card? I can only see the benefit if I carry a balance on the credit card, but I don't do that.

When you have the option of using either, why would you ever choose debit?
wolf359
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by wolf359 »

wolf359 wrote:
flyingbison wrote:
wolf359 wrote:I never understood why people use debit cards for purchases. I see why it's beneficial for the banks, and for the vendors, but I don't see the benefit for the consumer. If you have a credit card that you pay off each month, why do you ever pull out your debit card?
Some stores don't take credit cards.
Most stores that don't take credit cards don't take debit cards, either. So I use cash in those stores.

If they give a discount for cash, and count debit cards as cash, then I'll use cash.

Both of those examples are comparing cash to debit cards.

But when is using a debit card better than using a credit card? I can only see the benefit if I carry a balance on the credit card, but I don't do that.

When you have the option of using either, why would you ever choose debit?
A co-worker of mine just answered the question offline. He said, "Because Dave Ramsey said all debt is bad." He did a debt snowball on all his credit cards and now only has a debit card.

I understand that answer, but I don't agree with that philosophy. I believe it IS possible to use credit cards for convenience.
flyingbison
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by flyingbison »

wolf359 wrote:
... But when is using a debit card better than using a credit card? ...
I never said it was better, I just pointed out the fact that some stores don't take credit cards. When I go grocery shopping, for example, using a credit card isn't an option, and using my debit card is more convenient than withdrawing cash from an ATM or writing a check.
mptfan
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by mptfan »

flyingbison wrote:When I go grocery shopping, for example, using a credit card isn't an option, and using my debit card is more convenient than withdrawing cash from an ATM or writing a check.
I agree that using a debit card is more convenient than using cash or writing a check, but that convenience comes with the risks that have been described in this thread. It is equally convenient as using a credit card, so I don't see any convenience advantage for debit cards over credit cards.
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by flyingbison »

mptfan wrote:
flyingbison wrote:When I go grocery shopping, for example, using a credit card isn't an option, and using my debit card is more convenient than withdrawing cash from an ATM or writing a check.
I agree that using a debit card is more convenient than using cash or writing a check, but that convenience comes with the risks that have been described in this thread. It is equally convenient as using a credit card, so I don't see any convenience advantage for debit cards over credit cards.
Neither do I. I was referring to situations when credit is not an option.
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JoMoney
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by JoMoney »

wolf359 wrote:
... But when is using a debit card better than using a credit card? ...
If you know you have problems handling credit, it may be the right thing to just cut off your access to it. If you have bad credit you may not have good credit card options. If your bank requires you to use it to earn credits towards some bonus program. I've seen several credit unions that offer things like a "Super Reward Checking" account that pays 2%+ interest on your balance, refunds of other bank ATM fees, and other features as long as you meet certain criteria each month which usually involves a certain amount or number of debit transactions.
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chickadee
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by chickadee »

We had this exact thing happen to us about a week and a half ago on our business debit card. A bogus charge from Walmart for about $400. The fraud detection team at our bank flagged it right away and called us. We had to get a new debit card, which was a pain.
mydogslife16
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by mydogslife16 »

I'm sorry to those who are anti-debit card but I feel I must point out that those who steal will steal. Is your home wifi connection secure? Even if your connection is secured by a nifty little firewall did you know you can still be hacked? If hacked the cyber thief now can access anything you have accessed...including any account you have accessed...have ever accessed.

In regards to ATM machine usage with debit cards...where are the machines located that you use to withdraw your funds? Are they at the bank branch? Are you aware that card skimming chips have been found attached to ATM machines AT bank branches? Many banks moves the machines inside but guess what happened? The same thing.

The very individuals who are charged with designing firewalls for financial institutions also design for retail locations...and you see how secure those firewalls have proven to be. Do you trust your investments to be handled by brokers and never check them yourself? I doubt it...and your personal bank account should be no different. Every bank offers account alerts, set yours to $1 and you will be the first to know when a fradulent charge has been made. I'm not sure where the individual who started this thread lives, but mosts financial institutions can issue you a new card in less than 5 minutes, you merely have to walk into the branch.

Bottom line, just like your purse, wallet, car etc. if a criminal wants access to your money they will have access to your money. You are never the only one who has access to your private information including financials, every person with security clearance at any institution can view or even move your money. They passed a background check you say? Well...We live in a world where 12 year old children can hack into accounts before they've had their morning bowl of coma enducing sugar laden cereal, do you think backgrounds cannot be falsified?

Now, I am absolutely not saying you or I are this paranoid but fraud can have as far of a reach as cyber criminals decide to give it. They will not get caught for years, if ever [OT comment removed by moderator prudent]
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dodecahedron
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by dodecahedron »

mouses wrote:
dodecahedron wrote:

Besides, why would I want to use a debit card when I have rewards credit cards that pay me generously for using them! (5.25% on gas, 3.5% on groceries, 2.625% on everything else.)
What cards would those be? Do they have annual fees? Inquiring minds want to know :-)
Bank of America Cash Rewards (for 5.25% on gas and 3.5% on groceries) and B of A Travel Rewards for (2.625% on everything else.)

No annual fees but I do need to keep at least $100K of assets at Merrill Edge for at least three months per year. This was easy for me to do at no cost--I simply transferred $100K of Vanguard ETFs in-kind to a Merrill Edge account. (I actually transferred $200K for the first 180 days to earn a $1,000 bonus as well.)

Hat tip to tfb blog for pointing this opportunity out
wolf359
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by wolf359 »

mydogslife16 wrote:I'm sorry to those who are anti-debit card but I feel I must point out that those who steal will steal. Is your home wifi connection secure? Even if your connection is secured by a nifty little firewall did you know you can still be hacked? If hacked the cyber thief now can access anything you have accessed...including any account you have accessed...have ever accessed.

In regards to ATM machine usage with debit cards...where are the machines located that you use to withdraw your funds? Are they at the bank branch? Are you aware that card skimming chips have been found attached to ATM machines AT bank branches? Many banks moves the machines inside but guess what happened? The same thing.

The very individuals who are charged with designing firewalls for financial institutions also design for retail locations...and you see how secure those firewalls have proven to be. Do you trust your investments to be handled by brokers and never check them yourself? I doubt it...and your personal bank account should be no different. Every bank offers account alerts, set yours to $1 and you will be the first to know when a fradulent charge has been made. I'm not sure where the individual who started this thread lives, but mosts financial institutions can issue you a new card in less than 5 minutes, you merely have to walk into the branch.

Bottom line, just like your purse, wallet, car etc. if a criminal wants access to your money they will have access to your money. You are never the only one who has access to your private information including financials, every person with security clearance at any institution can view or even move your money. They passed a background check you say? Well...We live in a world where 12 year old children can hack into accounts before they've had their morning bowl of coma enducing sugar laden cereal, do you think backgrounds cannot be falsified?

Now, I am absolutely not saying you or I are this paranoid but fraud can have as far of a reach as cyber criminals decide to give it. They will not get caught for years, if ever [OT comment removed by moderator prudent]
I am not anti-debit card. I just don't use one because I've never understood why it would be to my benefit to do so. I have one in my wallet, but I don't use it.

As for the rest, we live in an insecure world. I accept your premise that systems will be compromised. The appropriate response is to make yourself as hard a target as possible by 1) reducing your exposure; and 2) protecting the systems and data that are exposed to the best that you can. Finally, make a plan for when you get compromised. Your data will get stolen. What are you doing about it?

The fact that you're living in an insecure world doesn't mean you should take extra risks. It means you should minimize your risks. If using a debit card increases risk and provides no benefit, why use it?
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mickeyd
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by mickeyd »

dodecahedron wrote:
mickeyd wrote:
why do you ever pull out your debit card?
If a store offers a 5% discount w/dc use, it may be difficult to pass up the bonus.
I don't know of any such stores around here. Curious about what type of stores offer this deal near you?

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mptfan
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by mptfan »

wolf359 wrote: The fact that you're living in an insecure world doesn't mean you should take extra risks. It means you should minimize your risks
Exactly. I have never understood those who argue that because the world is insecure therefore you should not take reasonable measures to minimize risk.
barnaclebob
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by barnaclebob »

freebeer wrote:
MandyT wrote:
Toons wrote:This is exactly why we never use our ATM/debit card for anything but ATM withdrawals

Same here,when I do use it. :happy
Unless you have your card set to be ATM only, I don't understand how not using it for debit purchases protects you from debit fraud.
'
Well how do you think fraudsters get card data? Generally, by hacking retailer systems; also, by colluding with sketchy retailers. If you have a debit card and only use it at the ATM of a reputable bank, you should be much less likely to be the vicitm of fraud.
There are many reports of people on this forum having credit cards that have NEVER been used getting charged fraudulently.
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ray.james
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by ray.james »

Any one has creative ideas how to meet rewards checking with out using debit card. We get 2% upto 25k but we need to use atleast 300$ in debit/credit payments.

Personally I don't use them at restaurants/gas stations/movie theaters but at big retails stores. Any ideas?
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lakpr
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by lakpr »

ray.james wrote:Any one has creative ideas how to meet rewards checking with out using debit card. We get 2% upto 25k but we need to use atleast 300$ in debit/credit payments.

Personally I don't use them at restaurants/gas stations/movie theaters but at big retails stores. Any ideas?
Here is what I do. I pay Comcast (Xfinity) bill in $1.xx increments. They just require that the payment be done with different amounts. So basically $1.01, $1.02, $1.03 etc. For 12 payments. On a single day.

Just one website where the debit card would be used, so the risk is minimized to the extent possible. Comcast website is one I trust, absent proof to the contrary, to have a secure website. Also do not store the card number on the websute itself, only paste info every time it is required.
RamoniOba
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by RamoniOba »

My debit card was copied while using a dodgy ATM at a New Jersey turnpike rest stop. Next day someone in up state New York was buying $500 worth of stuff which was approved and another $300 which was declined. Wellsfargo called me right away and cancelled the card took about a week to be reimbursed. I'll recommend Wellsfargo.

The debit card I carry around is linked to the account I pay my bills from. Hardly any money on it above $300 post bill payment so an not worried.
radiowave
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by radiowave »

I haven't read through the entire thread so apologies if this is a repeat but Bank of America has a way to generate random credit card numbers for use online. It's a one time only number. Not very helpful for local transaction however.

https://www.bankofamerica.com/privacy/a ... hopsafe.go
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richardglm
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by richardglm »

barnaclebob wrote:
freebeer wrote: Well how do you think fraudsters get card data? Generally, by hacking retailer systems; also, by colluding with sketchy retailers. If you have a debit card and only use it at the ATM of a reputable bank, you should be much less likely to be the vicitm of fraud.
There are many reports of people on this forum having credit cards that have NEVER been used getting charged fraudulently.
Of course. If fraud were that bad, then the banks would be much more serious about combating fraud. They resisted issuing EMV "chip" cards for years, a security measure that costs all of tens of cents per card for the bank (but it does cost some extra for the merchants too)

It doesn't happen to everyone, but card fraud is very real, and has happened to millions of card accounts. The US banking system writes off billions of dollars of it per year. Ultimately most banks have $0 fraud liability guarantees, but it still puts a burden on the average person - you have to monitor your accounts for fraud, dispute the fraud, and deal with the hassles that come with temporarily not having access to funds because of holds or freezes.

Whether it's because regulations are tighter on credit cards, or credit cards are simply much more profitable for banks, I've found they're simply easier to deal with unauthorized use than demand accounts and debit cards. Enough so that I don't ever want to use debit anymore.
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by tdogz »

richardglm wrote:Of course. If fraud were that bad, then the banks would be much more serious about combating fraud. They resisted issuing EMV "chip" cards for years, a security measure that costs all of tens of cents per card for the bank (but it does cost some extra for the merchants too)
In my experience, it is the merchants, not the banks, that are dragging their feet. All 6 cards in my wallet are EMV, but I still have to swipe in over 50% of stores. What's sad is that almost all of these stores that make you swipe actually have terminals capable of taking EMV cards!! You put your chip in the reader and then the cashier tells you that you have to swipe because they haven't turned the feature on. And these aren't just local businesses - the majority are national stores!
criticalmass
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by criticalmass »

tdogz wrote:
richardglm wrote:Of course. If fraud were that bad, then the banks would be much more serious about combating fraud. They resisted issuing EMV "chip" cards for years, a security measure that costs all of tens of cents per card for the bank (but it does cost some extra for the merchants too)
In my experience, it is the merchants, not the banks, that are dragging their feet. All 6 cards in my wallet are EMV, but I still have to swipe in over 50% of stores. What's sad is that almost all of these stores that make you swipe actually have terminals capable of taking EMV cards!! You put your chip in the reader and then the cashier tells you that you have to swipe because they haven't turned the feature on. And these aren't just local businesses - the majority are national stores!
There's a whole lot more involved with a merchant implementing EMV properly than "just turning on" the card reader. The card reader is important, but is the simplest part of the EMV infrastructure. I would also argue it is much better to not implement EMV than to implement it improperly, so merchants are right to take it slow and tread cautiously if it is new technology for them.

That said, merchants are now on the hook (since Oct 1 2015) for fraud with EMV cards if they do not accept EMV transactions. They are accepting the fraud risk (for EMV cards) until implementing EMV. Gas pumps still have a few more years due to the hardships of installing new communications lines to the pumps and installing new intrinsically safe (i.e. won't cause sparks) point of sale devices at the gas pumps.
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greg24
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by greg24 »

The U.S. card processing infrastructure is being very slow to move to EMV. There is a lot of blame to go around, it is basically the whole ecosystem. Card issuers, transaction processors, merchants.
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by abuss368 »

Hi MnD,

We have always avoided Debit cards for many of the reasons your have mentioned. All expenses are charged to a credit card and paid off routinely. We try to keep everything simple with as much protection as possible.

Best.
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criticalmass
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by criticalmass »

greg24 wrote:The U.S. card processing infrastructure is being very slow to move to EMV. There is a lot of blame to go around, it is basically the whole ecosystem. Card issuers, transaction processors, merchants.

I can't agree with that. Compared to the rollouts that previously took place in Europe and other countries, the rollout in the USA has been lightning fast since the shift was announced by the networks a few years ago. The USA market is also orders of magnitude larger in terms of numbers of cards, merchants, and backend systems than any other market in the world.
richardglm
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by richardglm »

tdogz wrote:
richardglm wrote:Of course. If fraud were that bad, then the banks would be much more serious about combating fraud. They resisted issuing EMV "chip" cards for years, a security measure that costs all of tens of cents per card for the bank (but it does cost some extra for the merchants too)
In my experience, it is the merchants, not the banks, that are dragging their feet. All 6 cards in my wallet are EMV, but I still have to swipe in over 50% of stores. What's sad is that almost all of these stores that make you swipe actually have terminals capable of taking EMV cards!! You put your chip in the reader and then the cashier tells you that you have to swipe because they haven't turned the feature on. And these aren't just local businesses - the majority are national stores!
The ball is now in the merchants' court, but EMV has already been deployed in Europe for nearly 10 years, and for years it was not clear when it would ever come to the US. If not for the high profile Home Depot and Target breaches, we could still be stuck on mag stripe.
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by amazonchic »

I found out a few years ago that a Visa debit card does not necessarily have any Visa related privileges when unauthorized activity happens on your account. Granted, my husband insisted on keeping his accounts with a credit union when we married (my family ONLY uses banks). When I called the credit union, they refused to file the charges as fraud and told me this was an industry standard. This is a lie.

Since then I have moved my business accounts to a local bank, who told me when I ran the situation by them that this was a practice specific to that credit union. The bank would have refunded me my money.

My husband was very reticent to move our personal accounts over. I will never trust a debit card again to have any protection like a credit card. This happened again to my husband since, and he was able to get this resolved with the vendor who mischarged our debit card. Again, the credit union refused to work with my husband for unauthorized activity. He still has all our accounts with that stupid credit union.
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by criticalmass »

amazonchic wrote:I found out a few years ago that a Visa debit card does not necessarily have any Visa related privileges when unauthorized activity happens on your account. Granted, my husband insisted on keeping his accounts with a credit union when we married (my family ONLY uses banks). When I called the credit union, they refused to file the charges as fraud and told me this was an industry standard. This is a lie.

Since then I have moved my business accounts to a local bank, who told me when I ran the situation by them that this was a practice specific to that credit union. The bank would have refunded me my money.

My husband was very reticent to move our personal accounts over. I will never trust a debit card again to have any protection like a credit card. This happened again to my husband since, and he was able to get this resolved with the vendor who mischarged our debit card. Again, the credit union refused to work with my husband for unauthorized activity. He still has all our accounts with that stupid credit union.
What were the unauthorized charges? Did you send your debit card dispute to the credit union in writing, consistent with Regulation E? Did you notify Visa as well to preserve their separate fraud guarantee? If all else failed, did you obtain a police report and provide to the credit union and then report to the regulator(s) applicable to your credit union? There is no difference in the law between banks and credit unions in respect to fraud covered under Truth in Savings Act and Regulation E. This information should also be in your account terms, and sometimes on the back of your statement. Calling the credit union/bank without writing does not preserve your rights.
Last edited by criticalmass on Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by criticalmass »

richardglm wrote:
tdogz wrote:
richardglm wrote:Of course. If fraud were that bad, then the banks would be much more serious about combating fraud. They resisted issuing EMV "chip" cards for years, a security measure that costs all of tens of cents per card for the bank (but it does cost some extra for the merchants too)
In my experience, it is the merchants, not the banks, that are dragging their feet. All 6 cards in my wallet are EMV, but I still have to swipe in over 50% of stores. What's sad is that almost all of these stores that make you swipe actually have terminals capable of taking EMV cards!! You put your chip in the reader and then the cashier tells you that you have to swipe because they haven't turned the feature on. And these aren't just local businesses - the majority are national stores!
The ball is now in the merchants' court, but EMV has already been deployed in Europe for nearly 10 years, and for years it was not clear when it would ever come to the US. If not for the high profile Home Depot and Target breaches, we could still be stuck on mag stripe.
The switch is being driven by the network liability shift, and the networks scheduled the liability shift for October 2015 long before the Home Depot and Target breaches. While they provided additional incentive and a catalyst for the change, EMV was already on the way.
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by richardglm »

criticalmass wrote:The switch is being driven by the network liability shift, and the networks scheduled the liability shift for October 2015 long before the Home Depot and Target breaches. While they provided additional incentive and a catalyst for the change, EMV was already on the way.
Yeah, I confused the dates. It's still crazy that the shift is so late compared to every other country.
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by linenfort »

==========================
OLD THREAD
I READ PAGE ONE ONLY
(LOTS OF ANECDOTAL FILLER)

===========================

:idea: If you have a debit card that you want to keep for ATM visits only but cannot get an ATM-only card issued, there is another option.
You can have the bank set your purchase limit to something very low, like a dollar. I did this recently.
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by abuss368 »

When we opened our bank account I requested a simple ATM card and no need for a debit card as we purposely never use it. Everything is charged to the credit card. We were told there would be an additional fee and that the debit card was no fee but could still withdrawal cash from an ATM.
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by abuss368 »

linenfort wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:48 pm ==========================
OLD THREAD
I READ PAGE ONE ONLY
(LOTS OF ANECDOTAL FILLER)

===========================

:idea: If you have a debit card that you want to keep for ATM visits only but cannot get an ATM-only card issued, there is another option.
You can have the bank set your purchase limit to something very low, like a dollar. I did this recently.
I did this as well as an additional precaution. A simple $300 a day was the lowest it could go. If we need cash we plan over a couple of days or we visit the bank.
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FrugalInvestor
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by FrugalInvestor »

dodecahedron wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:46 am
criticalmass wrote: Just remember that most cards that are billed as ATM only actually are connected to the debit networks, e.g. STAR, NYCE, Pulse, which also process ATM transactions. So you (your card) can still make debit transactions at merchants supporting debit.
I don't believe this is true in my case, because I have occasionally swiped my B of A ATM card unintentionally out of absent-mindedness at POS registers (because it doesn't look all that different from my B of A credit card) and gotten an error message.
I went on my BofA online account and set dollar limits for daily ATM withdrawals and Debit Card purchases myself. It wouldn't allow $0 for daily purchases but did allow $1.
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by jdb »

This is an old but still interesting, and relevant, thread. I recently told my bank, BofA, that I wanted to cancel my debit card and instead get an ATM only card. I was initially told by someone online that bank would not allow. I went to branch and they agreed to make the change, but when got new ATM card found out that daily cash withdrawals limited to $300, while old debit card allowed $600. Doesn’t make any sense to me, if anything would seem that ATM only card more secure. But I can live with that restriction, have no interest in debit card. But seems that banks are reluctant to issue ATM only cards. Probably lot less lucrative.
Last edited by jdb on Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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beyou
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Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by beyou »

Great idea on the limits.
For me I insisted the bank give me atm only cards, most banks will comply.

For kids, advised them to have the debit cards as a backup. At a young age when they have only their 1st credit card, should it be lost or disabled in some way, good to have another option. But advised they rarely use so the number is not exposed on many websites and other venues that may be hacked.

Just last night someone used my credit card at Walmart, like the OP from 2016. 3 charges in 2 days and bank finally denied one if the fruadulent charges and called me. Glad it was not a debit card.
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F150HD
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Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2015 7:49 pm

Re: End of debit cards for me

Post by F150HD »

MnD wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:56 am .... yet my card had not been locked down until I called. My available bank balance is now reduced by $700, my card is unusable, they will not expedite a new card other than regular mail so it may or may not arrive by the day we leave for Hawaii.

And the kicker - I cannot file a dispute on the $700 charge and have the charge credited to my main checking account _until_ the pending charge clears from Walmart and becomes an actual charge. Then i have to call back and file a dispute.
I knew a fella who worked in 'banking' (and was arrogant and self-centered as he**) and he argued w/ me about this years ago.

I told him I never want a Debit card for exactly the reason you describe and highlighted in red. He kept arguing w/ me insisting the debit card was ok to have and a simple call to your bank will fix it....

nope.

Lord forbid other payments start bouncing (mortgage etc) as the $700 is gone (even temporarily).

I have only an ATM card....rarely seem to use it, but no Debit card on it.
Long is the way and hard, that out of Hell leads up to light.
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