Contacted by three heir locators

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bru
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Contacted by three heir locators

Post by bru »

Today I received calls from three so called heir locators. My first cousin on my mother's side died last December with no immediate heirs. He died in California and all his maternal relatives reside in Illinois. Apparently the cousins on the paternal side filed a Petition for Probate never naming any of his maternal heirs. These locators have tracked down the maternal relatives and will file a claim on my (and other maternal relatives) behalf. Assuming there is an estate to be distributed I would get a fraction of the estate. Each company will do this for the same contingency fee of 15%. As its written in the contract received they will pay all legal expenses necessary to secure my claim and the 15% is taken from my inheritance.

Me and my relatives together could do the legal work on our own thereby avoiding the fees but we would then have to pay legal fees, etc. which are all covered by these companies. I received an email fron another cousin saying it might be better for all of us to go with the same company or do the work ourselves. One cousin is a lawyer so we are waiting to hear his thoughts. My initial thought is are these fees negotiable? Anyone have any experience with a situation like this?
betterfinances
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by betterfinances »

On the face of it, this sounds like a scam of some type.

If they are only charging 15%, then I suspect that the estate is either incredibly large or somehow they'll come back wanting more money. Most attorneys that work lawsuits charge 50%, I wouldn't see why this is less complicated than a lawsuit.

Just my thoughts...I'm not familiar with this line of business though.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by Gill »

What do you need them for? Contact the attorney for the estate through the probate court and file your own claim. You don't need them as an intermediary. Also, there should be no fees other than the normal fees to the estate attorney.
Gill
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mxs
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by mxs »

Honest question, do you feel like you should receive a part of the estate? I might be a little lost in your exact relationship and relation to the deceased.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by bru »

betterfinances wrote:On the face of it, this sounds like a scam of some type.

If they are only charging 15%, then I suspect that the estate is either incredibly large or somehow they'll come back wanting more money. Most attorneys that work lawsuits charge 50%, I wouldn't see why this is less complicated than a lawsuit.

Just my thoughts...I'm not familiar with this line of business though.
It is a pretty large estate. Getting some conflicting information but it appears the estate is mostly liquid, no property, so it will not be complicated to resolve. I am not disagreeing that it seems odd but these companies are legit, easy to find information about who they are and what they do. They track down heirs and provide them with an inheritance for a fee.
Gill wrote:What do you need them for? Contact the attorney for the estate through the probate court and file your own claim. You don't need them as an intermediary. Also, there should be no fees other than the normal fees to the estate attorney.
Gill
What estate attorney? He died intestate with no immediate relatives. His paternal relatives filed with the probate court specifically saying there were no other relatives, a clear lie. This is being probated in California, how exactly would we handle it from 2000 miles away? I went through a fairly straight forward inheritance and that still required several court appearances. I would think at some point someone would need to be present in court for this situation.
mxs wrote:Honest question, do you feel like you should receive a part of the estate? I might be a little lost in your exact relationship and relation to the deceased.
Me and others have expressed that sentiment but as it was explained if someone does not participate their portion does not get redistributed, instead it goes to the state or whatever government entity is controlling the probate.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by mxs »

In that case, the best of luck to you. I've seen some shady things attempted after someone has passed.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by Gill »

As I explained above, if there is a legitimate estate and you are a legitimate beneficiary, contact the probate court. There most likely is an attorney for the estate or you can hire an attorney in that jurisdiction to represent you. You don't need to appear and you certainly don't need an heir finder.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

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Gill wrote:As I explained above, if there is a legitimate estate and you are a legitimate beneficiary, contact the probate court. There most likely is an attorney for the estate or you can hire an attorney in that jurisdiction to represent you. You don't need to appear and you certainly don't need an heir finder.
Gill
We were not aware of his passing so they did serve some purpose. Or are we to assume we would have been contacted by the probate court? Hiring a local attorney sounds like the best idea but after watching an attorney take >$40K for a fairly simple estate settlment I am quite leery. Lesser of two evils I suppose.
mxs wrote:In that case, the best of luck to you. I've seen some shady things attempted after someone has passed.
Ok then. Did I say something to upset you?
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by MN Finance »

I have no knowledge of this industry, but it seems clearly obvious why they exist. I would expect that since you were contacted by 3 that there's competition, and presumably some competency. My gut reaction would be to hire a local attorney since that seems somehow more controllable than a service, but the service is probably more turnkey. I think the number one quality I would want is responsiveness, though not sure how you judge that up front.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by mxs »

bru wrote:
mxs wrote:In that case, the best of luck to you. I've seen some shady things attempted after someone has passed.
Ok then. Did I say something to upset you?
No, I meant this in a sincere and kind way.

In that case, the best of luck to you. --> If the money is just going to the state if you don't claim it, then I hope you get it.

I've seen some shady things attempted after someone has passed. --> This was directed at the Californian's leaving you and your side out. I've seen a lot worse but that is depressing and for another time and thread.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by quantAndHold »

If you know which probate court, call them up, explain the situation, and ask what to do. My experience is that probate courts are used to dealing with lay people so you should be able to get started there. It may end up requiring a lawyer, but if it's a big enough estate it might be worth it.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by bru »

MN Finance wrote:I have no knowledge of this industry, but it seems clearly obvious why they exist. I would expect that since you were contacted by 3 that there's competition, and presumably some competency. My gut reaction would be to hire a local attorney since that seems somehow more controllable than a service, but the service is probably more turnkey. I think the number one quality I would want is responsiveness, though not sure how you judge that up front.
These companies apparently exist in droves. They all have websites and one sent literature touting its A+ BBB rating, which really means nothing.
mxs wrote: No, I meant this in a sincere and kind way.

In that case, the best of luck to you. --> If the money is just going to the state if you don't claim it, then I hope you get it.

I've seen some shady things attempted after someone has passed. --> This was directed at the Californian's leaving you and your side out. I've seen a lot worse but that is depressing and for another time and thread.
Thanks I appreciate it. My father died a few years back and despite having a trust the estate was a big mess and took a long time, and a lot of money to get settled. I am only one of many in this situation and even though we can act independently I am hoping we will align in our intent and I will probably just go with the majority opinion.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by Toons »

"One cousin is a lawyer so we are waiting to hear his thoughts."

Get his input before you make any decisions. :happy
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by CABob »

I had never heard of an heir location service or company but then I haven't had the need or involvement in an applicable case.
They must have had someone contact them to request their services. Who would that have been? Does the probate court contact them or an estate executor?
The OP says that three firms have contacted him in this case. Are they just fishing for business? Do they do some investigating in hopes of getting paid for their services later?
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by FrugalInvestor »

I was in a similar situation but was contacted by a forensic genealogy firm with an offer to do the work for a somewhat larger fee. My cousin and I ended up doing the legwork (no names were given to us so we had to track down the obscure relative). As it turned out my cousin tracked it down through a distant relative who it just so happened was the executor of the estate at the same moment that I found the estate documents through the internet. We ended up being added to the distribution list by the executor who, I'm sure, was hoping the situation would slip our notice. It undoubtedly would have were it not for the professional contact.

I wouldn't think that it would take much legal work once you notified the court of your claim, other than perhaps proving your relationship.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by FrugalInvestor »

CABob wrote:I had never heard of an heir location service or company but then I haven't had the need or involvement in an applicable case.
They must have had someone contact them to request their services. Who would that have been? Does the probate court contact them or an estate executor?
The OP says that three firms have contacted him in this case. Are they just fishing for business? Do they do some investigating in hopes of getting paid for their services later?
From our experience, yes, I believe that they do fish for business by watching for situations where there may be somewhat obscure relatives who may be due a portion of the estate but not aware of the death. They are not necessarily contacted by anyone. In our case is was a distant half-uncle who had no direct living parents, siblings or descendants and who had no will.

There is certainly a value to the service. However, if you can handle do the gumshoeing yourself the value increases.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by HopeToGolf »

Having dealt with an intestate situation in a different state, my thought is you do not need these folks. To stake a claim, my guess is you just need to contact the probate court and the administrator of the estate. With any luck, the administrator is someone independent but it could also be one of the relatives. Regardless, I do not think you need an heir locator service and the legwork should be minimal. However, if the paternal side wants to dispute your share, you may end up needing a lawyer.

As far as finding out which probate court to contact I think that should be easy and amounts to a Google search. Typically, the administrator has to provide notice of the individual's death. Also Google the intestate laws for CA, I'm sure there is something out there that details who gets what in what order. The unknowns (maybe) are the number of and context of the relatives in question and the value of the estate. If you have a legitimate claim, you can also ask for an accounting of the estate (assets and liabilities).

Again, this is based on what I've seen in a different state so CA may be different. Good luck. This stuff can get ugly and the fact that the paternal folks may have tried to cut you out is not a great indicator of how this might play out. Then again, if you barely knew the guy and the CA folks spent time with him and maybe even cared for him, one could understand that position as well.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

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bru wrote: ]Me and my relatives together could do the legal work on our own thereby avoiding the fees but we would then have to pay legal fees, etc. which are all covered by these companies.
What legal fees do you think you'd have to pay yourself? My guess is they'd be much smaller than 15%.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by bru »

I used the term "heir locator" but they all seem to have "research" in their name, as in probate research. Pretty sure they scour public records and if they see something worthwhile they act. In our case they saw a filing by the paternal side which as I understand it said there were no other relatives. This got their interest and they easily found that my cousin had another branch of family. Using public records they contacted as many as they could.

With (I think) 17 of my family members being involved I believe its crucial that we all act together. Since some will be receiving a contract today from any or all of these companies (they FedEx the paperwork) and with the perhaps inaccurate thoughts of big $ some may sign on their own. I agree with the comments about doing this ourselves but I also know that once lawyers get involved its usually never pleasant.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

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bru wrote: I agree with the comments about doing this ourselves but I also know that once lawyers get involved its usually never pleasant.


Signing with a company does not magically stop lawyers from getting involved. If someone wants to litigate, someone will litigate and you'll be paying the 15% fee plus hiring an attorney.

It sounds to me like you need a limited consultation with an attorney to decide what your next step should be. Signing a contract because some saleman called you on the phone with a sales pitch doesn't sound like a good idea.

I'm thinking you should talk to a lawyer about whether you should hire this company or what your options are. Just a consultation. You can show the lawyer this salesman's contract for this "heir finder" service. Or just follow the "do it yourself" advice above and only hire a lawyer if there's snags in the process.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

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junior wrote:Signing with a company does not magically stop lawyers from getting involved. If someone wants to litigate, someone will litigate and you'll be paying the 15% fee plus hiring an attorney.

It sounds to me like you need a limited consultation with an attorney to decide what your next step should be. Signing a contract because some saleman called you on the phone with a sales pitch doesn't sound like a good idea.

I'm thinking you should talk to a lawyer about whether you should hire this company or what your options are. Just a consultation. You can show the lawyer this salesman's contract for this "heir finder" service. Or just follow the "do it yourself" advice above and only hire a lawyer if there's snags in the process.
Supposedly the companies who take this on provide any legal services without additional expense. Of course the estate would be reduced by any legal fees needed from that end.

As I understand it its pretty cut a dried. He died without a will. The law states his estate is to be divided among his relatives. His father had 5 siblings, his mother had 7 so that means it is divided 12 ways. Then each of the 12 shares can be divided by the number of heirs to the siblings since all but one are deceased. For me its really not about the money. The other side of his family chose to act by doing a court filing and specifically stating there were no other family members so obviously we won't let them get way with that.

Unfortunately it seems my relatives are leaning toward going with one of these companies. Even my cousin who is a lawyer is suggesting it. No way will I hire my own attorney so it looks like I have to go with the majority. 15% and most likely more will be quite a lot of money taken off the top, but most people really don't look at the big picture. They get a call out of the blue saying they may inherit some money and they take the easy path.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by mouses »

bru wrote: Unfortunately it seems my relatives are leaning toward going with one of these companies. Even my cousin who is a lawyer is suggesting it. No way will I hire my own attorney so it looks like I have to go with the majority.
No, you do not have to do this.

As others have said above, give a call promptly to the probate court and explain what you've been told. Ask the clerk what to do. Hopefully the estate has not yet been settled. If it has been and funds have been disbursed, I suspect it then becomes a rat's nest, although the probate court might step in since it involves some form of perjury/fraud.

I would not spend a nickle on the "services" that have contacted you. I would not pay an attorney unless things get more complicated. You are not required to do what your other cousins who have been left out do - if you join with them, you could be on the hook for large legal and other fees.

I would probably promptly write a letter to the probate court, signature required, stating that you believe you may be an heir to the estate of so and so.

I am not an attorney, but have been an executor/trustee.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by MDfive21 »

Best of luck in your endeavor.

Please be sure to update the thread as the situation changes.

Also, see this thread http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/305858/ but don't get discouraged. It's an outlier, but possibly some of the frustrations are relevant to your situation.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by PVW »

I would probably be inclined to pay the 15%. Some have suggested this could be easily resolved by contacting the CA probate court. That might be informative, but I don't think it would easily resolve anything. A complicating factor is that you have heirs that lied to the court. Also, this CA court self help section on Wills, Estates, and Probate recommends that you get an attorney, indicating that it is not an easy process.
http://www.courts.ca.gov/8865.htm
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by N1CKV »

I would imagine contacting the Probate Court would put them on notice and obligate the executor to explain to the court how you are not an heir.
At that point you show your paperwork, they come up with whatever and as long as the probate court agrees that you are an heir then they can't keep you out of the picture. That tiny bit of legwork is hardly worth 15% of an estate.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

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bru wrote: Supposedly the companies who take this on provide any legal services without additional expense. Of course the estate would be reduced by any legal fees needed from that end.
Only attorneys can provide legal services, it's illegal for non attorneys to practice legal services. Is this "company" a law firm?

Sorry, Bru but nothing you have posted here makes much sense to me.

If your question was should you hire a law firm, I would say that's not necessarily a bad idea. If you question is should you hire some salseman who isn't licensed to practice law but said he'd "take care of" legal stuff, then my answer is probably not.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by bru »

junior wrote:
bru wrote: Supposedly the companies who take this on provide any legal services without additional expense. Of course the estate would be reduced by any legal fees needed from that end.
Only attorneys can provide legal services, it's illegal for non attorneys to practice legal services. Is this "company" a law firm?

Sorry, Bru but nothing you have posted here makes much sense to me.

If your question was should you hire a law firm, I would say that's not necessarily a bad idea. If you question is should you hire some salseman who isn't licensed to practice law but said he'd "take care of" legal stuff, then my answer is probably not.
What doesn't make sense? These companies have all been in this business for 80 years or more, they know what to do. They either have attorneys on staff or they hire them for any legal work once we have authorized for them to act on our behalf. I am certainly not here to defend these companies but after reading their proposals and researching them I am pretty confident they are legitimate. They perform a service for a fee. Many, including myself may not want to pay a fee for something we can do ourselves but that doesn't make them scammers.

One of three have proposed to do the work for 10%, the other two want 15%. All things being equal I would hope we can agree on using them. I will look in to other options suggested here but the thought of hiring an attorney is not one I relish.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

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............... deleted my comment
Last edited by junior on Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by bru »

junior wrote:
bru wrote: What doesn't make sense? These companies have all been in this business for 80 years or more, they know what to do.

You've obviously made up your mind to hire them, but you came here not even sure if they are a law firm (sounds like they are, but you still don't seem to know for sure what they are) asking us what we thought. Since you don't really know who this company is, your posts asking for advice are sort of vague and I read them as inconsistent.

But if you trust your lawyer relative, then take his suggestion and hire them. There's no issue.

That said, since you don't even seem to know if this is a law firm, perhaps you should back off of telling your relatives what to do, or who to hire?
I know they are not a law firm. I never said they were. You are the one who seems confused, why don't you look up probate research companies.

As for already making up my mind, I would rather not pay someone but as I am one of a large group I will most likely go with the majority decision. I will attempt or suggest to the group that some of the simple things that have been suggested be done but for me to hire my own lawyer for 1/28 of an estate isn't feasible.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

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bru wrote: As for already making up my mind, I would rather not pay someone but as I am one of a large group I will most likely go with the majority decision. I will attempt or suggest to the group that some of the simple things that have been suggested be done but for me to hire my own lawyer for 1/28 of an estate isn't feasible.
Okay, sorry if I came off as rude, my final suggestion is review and contract and see what it actually says.

They want you to sign something right? Tell them you'll read the contract and get back to them.

See if the contract says they'll pay for attorney fees. This is very fascinating. It sounds too good to me to believe that they'll promise to pay for any attorney fees, to be honest.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by bru »

junior wrote: Okay, sorry if I came off as rude, my final suggestion is review and contract and see what it actually says.

They want you to sign something right? Tell them you'll read the contract and get back to them.

See if the contract says they'll pay for attorney fees. This is very fascinating. It sounds too good to me to believe that they'll promise to pay for any attorney fees, to be honest.
I plan to review all the contracts in detail but they are all fairly brief documents and the only significant difference is the fee charged. I see no rush in doing this but others may not agree.

This is the procedure outlined for how legal services are handled. It is from one of the companies but all of them essentially say the same thing:

"The heirs are free to retain any attorney at their own expense. However, the attorney we retain is willing to represent and protect the heirs' inheritance interest in the estate and make no charge for such services rendered, provided the heirs give authorization to act."

They take a percentage of any distribution. That is their business. How they get that distribution and what it costs them is not passed on to their clients. Obviously to the extent of any legal wrangling, the estate itself may be effected thereby reducing the distribution and their fee.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by DiscoBunny1979 »

This has been suggested, but I would contact the California Probate Court whatever County the case is in. In some California County websites, one can search on a case by case number. I would explore online first and see what comes up.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by mouses »

bru wrote: What doesn't make sense? These companies have all been in this business for 80 years or more, they know what to do. They either have attorneys on staff or they hire them for any legal work once we have authorized for them to act on our behalf. I am certainly not here to defend these companies but after reading their proposals and researching them I am pretty confident they are legitimate.
Your faith in these companies is touching. Myself, I would make a phone call to the probate clerk, then float a stamp and a letter to the probate court and let the court take care of it. I might go so far as to include appropriate birth certificates, if the probate clerk thinks that is necessary.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by bsteiner »

bru wrote:... My first cousin on my mother's side died last December with no immediate heirs. He died in California and all his maternal relatives reside in Illinois. Apparently the cousins on the paternal side filed a Petition for Probate never naming any of his maternal heirs. ...
bru wrote:... He died intestate with no immediate relatives. ...
Which? You can't file a petition to probate a Will if he didn't have a Will.

If he had a Will, then (unless someone successfully contests the Will), his estate will go as set forth in his Will.

If he didn't have a Will, then his estate will go in accordance with state law.

In California, as in most states, if there is no one closer than a cousin, then cousins inherit. See California Probate Code § 6402: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displ ... =6400-6414. So if you're a cousin, and there was no one closer than a cousin, then you're an heir.

When there's no one closer than a cousin, how the estate is divided among the cousins, and what happens if a cousin predeceased the decedent, varies from state to state, but there's no need to go into that at this point.

Of course, when there's no one closer than a cousin, it can be difficult to prove that (i) there was no one closer than a cousin, (ii) the people claiming to be cousins, and (iii) the people claiming to be cousins are in fact all of the cousins. But with a bit of work it's usually possible. I once had such a case in New York, and we were able to prove the family tree with birth, death and marriage certificates, census records (the census records through 1940 are public), and witnesses.

You may want to get copies of what's been filed. You may also want to gather the necessary birth, death and marriage certificates to prove that you are in fact a cousin.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by bru »

bsteiner wrote:
Which? You can't file a petition to probate a Will if he didn't have a Will.

If he had a Will, then (unless someone successfully contests the Will), his estate will go as set forth in his Will.

If he didn't have a Will, then his estate will go in accordance with state law.

In California, as in most states, if there is no one closer than a cousin, then cousins inherit. See California Probate Code § 6402: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displ ... =6400-6414. So if you're a cousin, and there was no one closer than a cousin, then you're an heir.

When there's no one closer than a cousin, how the estate is divided among the cousins, and what happens if a cousin predeceased the decedent, varies from state to state, but there's no need to go into that at this point.

Of course, when there's no one closer than a cousin, it can be difficult to prove that (i) there was no one closer than a cousin, (ii) the people claiming to be cousins, and (iii) the people claiming to be cousins are in fact all of the cousins. But with a bit of work it's usually possible. I once had such a case in New York, and we were able to prove the family tree with birth, death and marriage certificates, census records (the census records through 1940 are public), and witnesses.

You may want to get copies of what's been filed. You may also want to gather the necessary birth, death and marriage certificates to prove that you are in fact a cousin.
I'm not sure exactly what they filed or even if they did but somehow it was mentioned/reported/filed that they were his only relatives. We are his cousins and based on the information given based on his status at the time of his death in terms of living relatives we are heirs to his estate.

So how to proceed? Use the probate research companies that will charge a fee if a distribution is received or do it ourselves from 2000 miles away?
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by FrugalInvestor »

Talk to the court and find out what they will require from you. This should help you decide. No one here really knows.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by bru »

County of Los Angeles which is where we would start charges for a probate search. Only a buck but still never heard of that before. My broke as blank county does it for free. When one cousin who is a lawyer and another who is a high powered CPA want to use one of the companies I'm not sure what to make of it.
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bru
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by bru »

mouses wrote: Your faith in these companies is touching. Myself, I would make a phone call to the probate clerk, then float a stamp and a letter to the probate court and let the court take care of it. I might go so far as to include appropriate birth certificates, if the probate clerk thinks that is necessary.
I don't recall expressing "faith" in these companies. I have been clear that it would not be my first choice to pay them, especially if doing it myself will be as simple as many imply. But as stated I am one of 17 and the others, including a lawyer, seem to be leaning toward using one of these companies. I can always go about it on my own and haven't made that decision. Until I hire them and experience the work they do I can't comment on the job they do but they are legitimate companies. They provide a service for a fee like any other company. Because someone doesn't want to pay for the service or feels that what they do is something they would not take advantage of doesn't make them scammers.
Not Law
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by Not Law »

One side of the family filed a probate case somewhere. They had no clue as to the other side, so the court required them to publish a notice to the heirs of the deceased. The heir locators read the notice, did a bit of research and found you. Now they ask for 10% or 15% of some unknown amount of money to send you a form to fill out and submit to the court, which will then proceed with the process. If you call the court and ask what form you need to file, they will likely tell you. If not, they will tell you the attorney who filed the case and he can get the form filled out and filed - and charge the estate for the work. If your family is to share $1,000,000 why are they willing to pay $150,000 for something that can be achieved for much less?
Rodc
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by Rodc »

FWIW: Some years ago this happened to my mother. She happened to use the heir finder. It worked out well.

I can do my own car repair, but have stopped doing so. I decided it was worth the cost in reduced hassle, not to mention possibly better work, to just pay a good honest professional. The trick of course is finding a good honest mechanic.

This strikes me as similar, unless the family member lawyer falls into that camp.

15% to get 85% of this free money does not seems out of the ballpark of reasonable to me. That said, I have no idea how hard the paperwork or process is so I could be all wet. :)
We live a world with knowledge of the future markets has less than one significant figure. And people will still and always demand answers to three significant digits.
Leemiller
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by Leemiller »

If it is a reputable company and easy fix would be to cap the 15% to a certain amount and then 0% or 5% of the amount above that.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by randomguy »

Rodc wrote:FWIW: Some years ago this happened to my mother. She happened to use the heir finder. It worked out well.

I can do my own car repair, but have stopped doing so. I decided it was worth the cost in reduced hassle, not to mention possibly better work, to just pay a good honest professional. The trick of course is finding a good honest mechanic.

This strikes me as similar, unless the family member lawyer falls into that camp.

15% to get 85% of this free money does not seems out of the ballpark of reasonable to me. That said, I have no idea how hard the paperwork or process is so I could be all wet. :)
Does paying 150k for 4 hours of work seem out of the ballpark?:) Obviously we have no clue how big the estate is but this seems like a pretty cut and dried case (i.e. people die without wills all the time and the courts have pretty cookie cutter ways of handling it).

To me (not knowing CA laws on the matter) is does the OP have any standings. Do first cousins get any money or does it all go to cousins (and if one is dead does the money get split among the remaining cousins or does some go to the first cousins whose parent is deceased). I would imagine 30 mins with a CA lawyer would clear it all up. That might be a useful 100 bucks.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by TSR »

There are also companies that "find" lost property (presumably by using publicly available and free lost-property websites), then contact the owners of that lost property and offer to recover it for a 15% fee. They are "reputable" in that they do the service they offer, and they take only the amount of the money they say they're going to take. However, it takes no effort to look up your name on the lost property database (even after they contact you!) and minimal effort to get your property back. They are charging an extraordinary fee for that minimal effort, and profiting off of laziness or ignorance.

In your situation, the company is betting that your situation is similar: they did very little work to find you, and they are expecting to do very little to recover the funds. There may be an element of risk-pooling going on: most cases go down easy, some go down hard, and they make their money on the former. You could actually get your money's worth if it is the latter.

For my money, I'd want to make the phone call necessary to determine if this is easy or hard before agreeing to pay them. But I understand that you may have different priorities for your time and your money. Best of luck regardless!
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by Rodc »

randomguy wrote:
Rodc wrote:FWIW: Some years ago this happened to my mother. She happened to use the heir finder. It worked out well.

I can do my own car repair, but have stopped doing so. I decided it was worth the cost in reduced hassle, not to mention possibly better work, to just pay a good honest professional. The trick of course is finding a good honest mechanic.

This strikes me as similar, unless the family member lawyer falls into that camp.

15% to get 85% of this free money does not seems out of the ballpark of reasonable to me. That said, I have no idea how hard the paperwork or process is so I could be all wet. :)
Does paying 150k for 4 hours of work seem out of the ballpark?:) Obviously we have no clue how big the estate is but this seems like a pretty cut and dried case (i.e. people die without wills all the time and the courts have pretty cookie cutter ways of handling it).

To me (not knowing CA laws on the matter) is does the OP have any standings. Do first cousins get any money or does it all go to cousins (and if one is dead does the money get split among the remaining cousins or does some go to the first cousins whose parent is deceased). I would imagine 30 mins with a CA lawyer would clear it all up. That might be a useful 100 bucks.
Without the details I would suggest that assuming it is 4 hours worth of work (that the OP knows how to do) is premature. I would further suggest that assuming the estate is this or that size is also premature.

It would be nice if you are correct, but I note the following quotes:
Thanks I appreciate it. My father died a few years back and despite having a trust the estate was a big mess and took a long time, and a lot of money to get settled. I am only one of many in this situation and even though we can act independently I am hoping we will align in our intent and I will probably just go with the majority opinion.
With (I think) 17 of my family members being involved I believe its crucial that we all act together. Since some will be receiving a contract today from any or all of these companies (they FedEx the paperwork) and with the perhaps inaccurate thoughts of big $ some may sign on their own. I agree with the comments about doing this ourselves but I also know that once lawyers get involved its usually never pleasant.
Unfortunately it seems my relatives are leaning toward going with one of these companies. Even my cousin who is a lawyer is suggesting it.
Seems like a big complicated mess that is nowhere near a simple 4 hour job. I have no clue what the downsides of trying to do this on the cheap. I suppose the worst that happens is someone else out maneuvers you and you end up with nothing and you end up getting a lawyer at that point.

At the very least I would talk to a knowledgeable independent lawyer before trying to take this on myself or using one of these heir finders. Others who are braver, or more knowledgeable might take a different path.
We live a world with knowledge of the future markets has less than one significant figure. And people will still and always demand answers to three significant digits.
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bru
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by bru »

FrugalInvestor wrote:Talk to the court and find out what they will require from you. This should help you decide. No one here really knows.
Easier said than done. Called today and they couldn't even find a case. I was able to track down the case number myself on their website by checking the court calendar so I called back. Woman I spoke to tells me I need to file an objection and include a $435 fee. So how do I do that, is there any information on your website I ask. I don't know she says, maybe you should hire a lawyer.

Everyone thinks this is so easy to do, but when you are 2000 miles away and trying to get information out of a government worker it isn't.
Not Law wrote:One side of the family filed a probate case somewhere. They had no clue as to the other side, so the court required them to publish a notice to the heirs of the deceased. The heir locators read the notice, did a bit of research and found you. Now they ask for 10% or 15% of some unknown amount of money to send you a form to fill out and submit to the court, which will then proceed with the process.
Yep you summarized it pretty well and I think I posted all of this.
Not Law wrote:If you call the court and ask what form you need to file, they will likely tell you. If not, they will tell you the attorney who filed the case and he can get the form filled out and filed - and charge the estate for the work. If your family is to share $1,000,000 why are they willing to pay $150,000 for something that can be achieved for much less?
I called the court. The woman I spoke to was less than helpful. See my comment above. On their website I see no procedures outlined for what I would need to do. How would you proceed?
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by randomguy »

Rodc wrote:
randomguy wrote:
Rodc wrote:FWIW: Some years ago this happened to my mother. She happened to use the heir finder. It worked out well.

I can do my own car repair, but have stopped doing so. I decided it was worth the cost in reduced hassle, not to mention possibly better work, to just pay a good honest professional. The trick of course is finding a good honest mechanic.

This strikes me as similar, unless the family member lawyer falls into that camp.

15% to get 85% of this free money does not seems out of the ballpark of reasonable to me. That said, I have no idea how hard the paperwork or process is so I could be all wet. :)
Does paying 150k for 4 hours of work seem out of the ballpark?:) Obviously we have no clue how big the estate is but this seems like a pretty cut and dried case (i.e. people die without wills all the time and the courts have pretty cookie cutter ways of handling it).

To me (not knowing CA laws on the matter) is does the OP have any standings. Do first cousins get any money or does it all go to cousins (and if one is dead does the money get split among the remaining cousins or does some go to the first cousins whose parent is deceased). I would imagine 30 mins with a CA lawyer would clear it all up. That might be a useful 100 bucks.
Without the details I would suggest that assuming it is 4 hours worth of work (that the OP knows how to do) is premature. I would further suggest that assuming the estate is this or that size is also premature.
Maybe. That is what an half hour of a CA estate lawyer time will tell you. For a couple hundred bucks don't you want to know if this is likely to cost 1k or 10k to handle on your own? Obviously you need to use some judgement on the size of the estate. Substantial to me means north of 7 figures, so we could be talking 50k+. If substantial means 100k split 15 ways, then yeah probably not worth the money.

I don't think there is a generic form for an objection. The ones I have been a party to have been written by a lawyer. It is a bit boilerplate but you need to dot the i and cross the tees. A quick google gives http://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/need- ... 50559.html .

And to be really crazy, anyone think contacting the person who filed makes sense? Maybe a quick phone to ask how to get yourself added in solves the problem quickly and cheapily. Of course you need to make sure that you are added before the time for doing that passes so you probably still need to talk to a lawyer.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by Rodc »

That is what an half hour of a CA estate lawyer time will tell you. For a couple hundred bucks don't you want to know if this is likely to cost 1k or 10k to handle on your own?
As I said:
At the very least I would talk to a knowledgeable independent lawyer before trying to take this on myself or using one of these heir finders.
We live a world with knowledge of the future markets has less than one significant figure. And people will still and always demand answers to three significant digits.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by FrugalInvestor »

randomguy wrote:And to be really crazy, anyone think contacting the person who filed makes sense? Maybe a quick phone to ask how to get yourself added in solves the problem quickly and cheapily. Of course you need to make sure that you are added before the time for doing that passes so you probably still need to talk to a lawyer.
This is what happened with us. After we tracked down the estate and contacted the executor (a distant relative) she said "let me get back to you." I don't think she wanted to say anything without speaking with her (the estate's) attorney because (I suspect) he had advised her to leave us out in hopes we wouldn't notice. She shortly came back to us and said that we would be added because (I suspect) he advised her that now that we knew and given that we had a valid claim there wasn't much else that could be done. Of course all situations (and families) are different.

An interesting side story is that we reconnected with the obscure side of the family through this experience and continue to be much closer years later.
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by LadyGeek »

New member hhb121 has a question which I'v moved into a stand-alone thread: [Administration without a will - Do I need an attorney?]
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Re: Contacted by three heir locators

Post by celia »

Now that you and your other maternal relatives know that a cousin died without heirs, why don't you all contact the paternal relatives, who may or may not have been too lazy to contact/find you. Ask them what's happening and what the plan is going forward. At this point I think you just need more information.
junior wrote:
bru wrote: ]Me and my relatives together could do the legal work on our own thereby avoiding the fees but we would then have to pay legal fees, etc. which are all covered by these companies.
What legal fees do you think you'd have to pay yourself? My guess is they'd be much smaller than 15%.
If there are any legal fees and all the beneficiaries work together, don't the fees get paid from the estate before it is distributed? The fact that there may be legal fees is not a reason to pay 15% to someone, unless the estate is so small its value is less than the fees.
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