How to get a 200k+/year job?

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betterfinances
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How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by betterfinances »

I've occasionally read on here about some folks having jobs that pay more than $200k/year. Most recently, there was someone who is 22 and just out of college that got that kind of job.

I'm wondering - what industry do I need to get a degree in to land this kind of job? What kind of background is necessary? I currently have a masters in engineering, so I wouldn't think it would take a lot for me to move over into computer science or something if that is what would get me there.

Serious post...a $200k/year salary is very appealing and would be worth spending some time in school if need be.
JonFromDimensionC137
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by JonFromDimensionC137 »

It is very easy to achieve that sort of income as a doctor or lawyer, especially in hcol areas. However, those take a lot of schooling (that will likely be expensive) and some smarts.

The areas that you see young people earning large amounts are primarily tech and finance. Quite a few people are earning 200k+ within a couple years of graduation, but these jobs tend to be highly competitive and fairly intense. You have to really have a drive for what you're doing to find success in either of these.

I just graduated last year and my friends in investment banking will have made about 140k in their first year and be likely to hit 200-300k+ once they switch to private equity or a hedge fund in another year. Keep in mind though that 80 hours a week is the norm for these guys and that the process for getting such jobs is extremely competitive.

If this is something you are serious about, I'd take a look at the fields I mentioned and see if there is something that you are both interested by and the skills to excel in. You have to keep in mind that there are also tons of people in these fields making 50k or less. If you're comfortable where you are, switching careers just for the money is a big risk, unless you're confident you can make it.

Edit: wanted to add that you are right it is probably a good idea to find something that you can use your engineering skills to achieve such an income. An example might be a lawyer that handles technical cases or patent law.
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inbox788
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by inbox788 »

Some jobs don't require much education.

Longshoremen make big bucks if you can get the job:

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-d ... story.html

Pilots used to make a lot, but airline troubles has dampened it a little. Also, air traffic controllers do pretty well.

I met a plumber once who lived in a very nice house in a very expensive neighborhood. Wouldn't be surprised if he was making the big bucks, but he was probably more of a business owner in the business of plumbing. Probably had a fleet of trucks and bunch of employees.

As far as engineering, you have to find your niche, and take your chances. Nuclear engineering has been feast or famine (now more latter). Fracking would have been the thing 2 years ago, but now it's tanked. Right now, if you guess right, electric self-driving cars, drones, robotics, etc. are all terrific fields where if you have expertise could land you a lucrative job. Or you can lead the way with 3D printing and custom manufacturing.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/richkarlgaa ... facturing/

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nukewerker
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by nukewerker »

If it makes you feel any better, tech is in a massive bubble. I forgot who said it but there are going to be a lot of dead unicorns soon (unicorn = $1 billion valuation).
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Toons
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by Toons »

It is certainly no guarantee,
as the world is full of educated derelicts,
but an education(extended),combined with extraordinary,
Hard Work,
certainly would help,
for starters :happy
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cmublitz
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by cmublitz »

Law degree + your engineering background => patent law in your field of expertise. Not sure if it is 200K+, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Middle management and senior systems engineers at computer tech firms probably do too.

Software engineers/programmers in Silicon Valley probably make that. I would factor in cost of living though. 200K+ isn't the same everywhere.

Many doctors make 200K+, but I think some of the higher paid ones are in "undesirable" areas in the "middle of nowhere". It seems like some of them are inversely correlated to the cost of living. That works out to a massive jump in your relative saving/spending power and some people really love those "middle of nowhere" locations.
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by peterinjapan »

Entrepreneur, if things go well. After nearly 20 years my wife and I each are near that number, but it took years of sacrifice and more investing mistakes than I care to contemplate.
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by algotrader »

As previous posters have mentioned, Tech and finance are the most common jobs I know of where people can get to 200k pretty quickly. I would note that in Tech a pretty large fraction of compensation will come in equity that takes a while to vest. While it is vesting you are exposed to a large undifersified risk (this is especially true for pre-IPO companies where it is hard to hedge).

In finance, cash compensation is much more common, but my sense is that the number of openings is much smaller than in Tech. You're earnings while cash also tend to be more volatile, so you have traded market risk for income risk. Based on my experience, and talking to friends who took various routes, it seems that the hours in finance are significantly more than at a large tech company, but less than at a startup.

I'm starting my third year doing engineering and math work for a finance firm, and my cash compensation came to 250k and 450k for the last two years. Most of the people my firm (and our competitors) hire tend to have degrees in EE, CS, or math from top schools (Ivy, MIT, Stanford, etc.). Internships during school are a pretty good way to get a sense of what kind of company you like, and can pay quite well.

My impressions is that doctors in the right are can also get high compensation relatively quickly after graduation, but that takes a large amount of schooling, and debt. The market for lawyers seems oversupplied in general, but there are pockets like patent law that have done quite well recently.

Most of what I said are based on anecdotes, but hopefully there is some useful data for you.
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by VoiceOfReason »

One career that has not been mentioned yet. High dollar Capital equipment sales in the fields of IT and Medical Device. Successful careers in either industry will pay the salary you are looking for in addition to all the extra perks. (Company car, expense account, cellphone, Internet, etc).

For your situation with an engineering degree, you could look into your field for sales opportunities. Whatever you went to school to learn to design as an engineer, needs to be sold by someone to someone else. The more complex the product and larger the dollars involved, the more there is to make.
AZAttorney11
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by AZAttorney11 »

Law, medicine, consulting, medical sales, finance, tech, owning a profitable business, etc.

I went to business school with a lot of engineers. Many were rather marketable upon graduation.
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by livesoft »

One can always work in the family business. Many family businesses can support a new hire at $200K a year. But then again, many cannot.
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by Grapevine ATL »

Start a one-man mortgage brokerage and be really really good at being a loan officer. I just joined one of these (making it a two-man shop). The owner of the company made $365k on his loans alone last year. I look to make about $150k this year (my first year). I also have managed to drop out of three universities in my early 20s and never actually received a degree.

Generally, if you're hungry for money, sales is a good place to earn as much as you want.
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by junior »

JonFromDimensionC137 wrote:It is very easy to achieve that sort of income as a doctor or lawyer
The median midcareer salary for a law school graduate is $139,300 according to a random article I just found on bloomberg.com. But the truth of the matter is unemployed law school graduates who find alternative careers don't tend to turn up in these sorts of statistics.

I have two friends who couldn't find permanent employment after law school and had to find work in other fields. as much lower salaries.
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

The posts referenced all seem to be in the bay area. If you are ok with going into an area where a $300k average house in Anywhere USA costs $1.5MM and a nice $500k house in Anywhere is over $2MM, and where 3 hour 25 mile commutes are the norm, then have at it. I've made over $200k a couple times (MSEE in the field supporting sales) but it's because the base salary was highly boosted with quarterly bonus (my assigned customers did well), the company did well, boosting profit sharing and I happened to bring in a new employee ($5k bonus) and have a patent both filed and issued and I sold some stock options and ESPP shares. I'm in the Northeast and have been an engineer for 31 years.
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by carolinaman »

No one has mentioned engineering management which may be a viable option for you. I would think your masters in engineering would help towards a management track. I have seen some engineers get an MBA to enhance their opportunities in management.
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by Elysium »

JonFromDimensionC137 wrote: I just graduated last year and my friends in investment banking will have made about 140k in their first year and be likely to hit 200-300k+ once they switch to private equity or a hedge fund in another year. Keep in mind though that 80 hours a week is the norm for these guys and that the process for getting such jobs is extremely competitive.
I would at that point say that if you are working 80 hours to earn $300K then your salary is only equal to $150K at 40 hours, but even less when you consider higher taxes, higher cost, high stress, and overall poor health. Even 60 hours a week which is sort of the norm in Tech, Law, or Finance to get big bucks isn't probably worth except for a few years when you are young. The other option is to start out in a good field and work steady building up your resume and expertise and make a good living over the years.
Last edited by Elysium on Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by yellowgirl »

Following this thread :mrgreen:
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by Call_Me_Op »

You can make 200+ as a top-tier mid-career engineer, but I would focus on doing something you really love rather than focusing on achieving a certain salary. If you really enjoy something, you tend to become really good at it - and the money tends to follow.
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by tibbitts »

betterfinances wrote:I've occasionally read on here about some folks having jobs that pay more than $200k/year. Most recently, there was someone who is 22 and just out of college that got that kind of job.

I'm wondering - what industry do I need to get a degree in to land this kind of job? What kind of background is necessary? I currently have a masters in engineering, so I wouldn't think it would take a lot for me to move over into computer science or something if that is what would get me there.

Serious post...a $200k/year salary is very appealing and would be worth spending some time in school if need be.
Is having a $200k/year salary this year appealing, followed by ten years at $20k? I'm very fortunate to have the job I do now, but earned much more a couple of decades ago, and had some of those $20k years in between. This isn't a world where salaries increase every year, and just because you hit some high number once in your life doesn't mean that you can job hop or otherwise engineer your way back to that level. Certainly there are jobs where the odds of being able to sustain a high salary are much better (physician, etc.) but outside of those there's a lot of variability. It's more important to do something you enjoy, somewhere you enjoy being, than to target some number for earnings - particularly a number that may not be sustainable. And remember that as the years go by, you may no longer have the passion for your work to put in the effort that would be required in a high-earning position, and scaling back is not an option in some fields.
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by Shackleton »

I'm in IT (application development as a programmer then software architect) and I'm originally from the Bay Area. When I was living in the Bay Area, both my husband and I each made >$200k/ year and it wasn't until we got to a combined household income of >$400k/year that we felt we were really able to save effectively. And that was in the relatively "cheap" east bay (Walnut Creek and then San Ramon). We put up with the high cost of everything (except veggies!), high taxes, long commutes (24 miles took 1 hour in average traffic) because we did like the area and it was where we'd grown up. But eventually it became too exhausting.

We now live in a much more moderate cost area and are still in IT. My husband is retired last year (but still does have short contract work if he wants), I make $170k/year, work mostly 40hours/week (occasionally up to 50 hrs) and we are able to save even after purchasing a very nice, newly built home, 2 mile commute, all on one salary. When my husband picks up occasional side programming jobs, it is all icing on the cake.

Don't get stuck on the number too much, it's really about how much you are able to keep and some of those HCOL areas with the big salaries won't allow you to keep much.
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by goodenyou »

A DEGREE in engineering is a testament to your intellectual ability in getting through a rigorous and meaningful academic program. Coupled with a graduate degree in "where the MONEY is" (MBA, JD, MD), you will be able to achieve a higher salary. A rank and file engineer, even a very bright and competent one, will have difficulty getting into the upper echelon of salaries. You have to follow the money. It is as an entrepreneur, joining start-ups (risky, but potentially lucrative), legal side, sales. You have to make yourself "more valuable" in some way. I am having this discussion with my son at this very moment. He likes engineering, but does not want to be commoditized as a rank-and-file engineer. I advised him that it will take a management or law degree to separate himself from the pack. He will need to use communication skills (or a great golf game)to really get ahead. He has had a lot of advice from his Professor ChemE grandfather who has educated many multimillionaire ChemE entrepreneurs. I did engineering and medicine, but none of my kids have any interest in practicing medicine.
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by Clever_Username »

I know a few folks who made $200K/year out of college. They typically had to work high-stress jobs for many hours in HCOL cities. All were top computer science students from top programs. The first two that come to mind were working easily 80 hours/week in NYC -- not worth it, in my mind, and I'll bet many agree with me. That's probably why the salary was so high.
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by TheTimeLord »

I see people mention lawyers to this type of thread a lot but do some research. Here is what I found for Lawyers.

Salary Outlook

Lawyers earned a median salary of $114,970 in 2014, according to the BLS. The best-paid lawyers earned more than $187,199, while the lowest-paid made less than $55,400. The highest earners worked in the metropolitan areas of San Jose, California; San Francisco and Los Angeles.
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by Gary Guss »

Corporate B to B sales and Finance is probably the easiest way if you are inclined that way. I agree IT is due for a big blowout, Law is way overcrowded. As an Engineer though Patent Law is an excellent niche as others have said. The sales positions are great with lots of perks but downside is usually travel every week all week.
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by goodenyou »

TheTimeLord wrote:I see people mention lawyers to this type of thread a lot but do some research. Here is what I found for Lawyers.

Salary Outlook

Lawyers earned a median salary of $114,970 in 2014, according to the BLS. The best-paid lawyers earned more than $187,199, while the lowest-paid made less than $55,400. The highest earners worked in the metropolitan areas of San Jose, California; San Francisco and Los Angeles.

The take home on this....You cannot be AVERAGE. You must be exceptional, if you want to make more money. Many lawyers do not have a degree in engineering. Many do not have a 1 handicap in golf either. If you want to make more money, make it a priority. The degree is no guarantee.
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by TheTimeLord »

betterfinances wrote:I've occasionally read on here about some folks having jobs that pay more than $200k/year. Most recently, there was someone who is 22 and just out of college that got that kind of job.

I'm wondering - what industry do I need to get a degree in to land this kind of job? What kind of background is necessary? I currently have a masters in engineering, so I wouldn't think it would take a lot for me to move over into computer science or something if that is what would get me there.

Serious post...a $200k/year salary is very appealing and would be worth spending some time in school if need be.
Just to give you some context on the availability of $200,000/yr. jobs here is a link that shows only 5% of households (not individuals) make $200,000/yr in the United States.

http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/income-rank/
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by HomerJ »

Get a spouse that makes $100k, and it's much easier to hit $200k a year. :)

It's a lot easier for two people to find $100k jobs, than one person to get a $200k job.
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by queso »

If you have the desire and aptitude to move into management you can do this with the skillset and education you already have (or grab an MBA and further bolster your credentials). I say aptitude because, as a former engineer myself, not everybody wants to move out of the trenches working with cool stuff and start going to multiple meetings a day, dealing with budgets/finances, counseling employees and managers, etc., but if that sounds like fun for you then you can get to where you want to go via that route. The other option is highly specialized engineering/technical which is kind of the reverse. Instead of selling your engineering soul and moving to the dark side you can become so uber-specialized and highly sought after that you can command high compensation. I'll leave you with my own thought process and what steered me to where I am now (CIO in a professional services company). Although I enjoy pure engineering more than running things I felt that over the long haul a move into management and then upper management was more sustainable over the long term given my belief that age discrimination in engineering/tech is worse than most other fields. I have a buddy who became a patent attorney for the same reason. His thoughts were, "an older an attorney gets the more respected he is for his experience and wisdom. The older an engineer gets the more people think he doesn't know any of the newer technologies."

Hope this helps.
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betterfinances:

We will all benefit by reading Mr. Bogle's wonderful book, ENOUGH. These are excerpts:
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"It is essential that we demand that the financial sector function far more effectively in the public interest and in the interest of investors than it does today."

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"I hope many moons from now, I will take time to revel in the memories of all the wonderful battles I've fought during my long life."

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691175002
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by 691175002 »

These kinds of salaries mostly show up in HCOL areas which really distorts things.

For example a 15-25k difference in annual rent can completely consume the after-tax salary difference. Throw in a long commute and the persons hourly wage (net of living expenses and including commute hours) can actually end up lower.
stoptothink
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by stoptothink »

I wonder the same thing. Around here, Utah, you are either a successful entrepreneur, in tech, or a physician - outside of that I don't know anybody who makes close to $200k/yr. I'm a director-level employee in a health mega-corp; PhD, 10yrs of health industry and upper management experience, and I just cracked six-figures for the first time this year. It took a job switch to make that happen, previously I was a director in a ~350 employee non-profit, making almost 30% less. I've been flat out accused of lying about my position because some posters don't believe I can make so little with such a job title - I'm not lying and I know several people in this area with similar positions, making similar money (including my direct counterpart at our largest competitor, a close friend of mine).

Compensation is obviously very regional, but at the moment you simply can not compare tech to anything else as far as compensation. My wife took what would appear to be a major demotion, going from a director in a social services organization to a bottom-of-the-barrel sales position in tech and literally doubled her salary (plus better benefits, less workload) overnight. Her boss constantly complains that he is going to quit because he is sick of the industry and wants go back to school. He's mid-late 30's, no college education, no management experience up until about a year ago and up until 2yrs ago he was literally working in the call center of this tech company. He makes $200k+. I am always curious to know what he thinks he can go back to school for and make anywhere near that money without having to spend the next 10yrs in school. I have more educated, more experienced, and IMO more competent employees (I know the guy pretty well) making 1/5th of what he is, they just started out in the wrong field. Lucky for us, we live in an area with one of the fastest growing tech centers.
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VoiceOfReason
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by VoiceOfReason »

TheTimeLord wrote:I see people mention lawyers to this type of thread a lot but do some research. Here is what I found for Lawyers.

Salary Outlook

Lawyers earned a median salary of $114,970 in 2014, according to the BLS. The best-paid lawyers earned more than $187,199, while the lowest-paid made less than $55,400. The highest earners worked in the metropolitan areas of San Jose, California; San Francisco and Los Angeles.

"There are lies, damned lies and statistics." - Mark Twain

I would suggest putting these statistics into context. These figures include low paying positions like public defenders. More relevant data would be the salaries of attorneys working at firms with 100+ lawyers.

While the point is valid, just because you pursue a certain career doesn't mean you will make a lot of money. This is true for any profession. I think the assumption here is that no matter what field you go into, you need to be a top performer. Top performers in law go to big law firms and make a lot of money. There is a very clear, well established path to accomplish this in this field. It is almost too well established.

Go to a top law school, finish in the top of your class and you will have your choice of law firm jobs.
hardrain
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by hardrain »

I'm with the people that are saying do what makes you happy, and would warn to be careful what you wish for in terms of salary because in almost all cases this comes with several catches, BUT this is a fun exercise to look at strictly, if you really are committed to a $200k salary regardless of personal happiness and hours.

Options I've seen (I've not been all of these by the way, thankfully):
-Several kinds of sales -- banking, financial services, advertising...be prepared to perform & catch no bad breaks on client lists or find a new job in these fields, though.
-Being a very top rated real estate lawyer, either residential or commercial (the latter incredible volatile).
-Senior corporate finance roles at publicly traded companies, which often takes many years of working your way up.
-Very senior IT roles at companies that have a lot of security exposure (which is most everyone now, with things being cloud based). This is another 'work your way up' field.
-Startup founders. I actually think this is your "best" path with what little I know about your situation, but keep in mind there is an 80%-90% chance of failure here so it may take several tries, but you'll also rather quickly how each one is working out. Also keep in mind "startup" can be very broad...not every startup is making a dating app, and the field is shifting a lot (in a good way in my opinion) into more tangible and practical product (weather, energy, production, ect.)...this slight shift is probably good for more traditional engineers as opposed to being good mostly for the narrow group of people that know web app languages.

Things I've seen in this thread that are misleading:
-The current startup/tech developer jobs are in high cost areas (SF & NY in my experience) and except for very rare leadership positions, and maybe slightly less senior roles at ridiculously competitive companies that I know little about, are not paying $200k+. There is also a current significant trend towards increased labor supply here that could make this more true, but that's personal speculation.
-The patent law angle is interesting, but I'm not sure you're netting $200k+ when you take into account that you basically have to drop out of the work force or kill yourself doing work/school, and will cost you a lot of cash or future debt obligations.
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by corysold »

Most of the school district superintendents in the Chicago Land area make 200K+.
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TheTimeLord
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by TheTimeLord »

VoiceOfReason wrote:
TheTimeLord wrote:I see people mention lawyers to this type of thread a lot but do some research. Here is what I found for Lawyers.

Salary Outlook

Lawyers earned a median salary of $114,970 in 2014, according to the BLS. The best-paid lawyers earned more than $187,199, while the lowest-paid made less than $55,400. The highest earners worked in the metropolitan areas of San Jose, California; San Francisco and Los Angeles.

"There are lies, damned lies and statistics." - Mark Twain

I would suggest putting these statistics into context. These figures include low paying positions like public defenders. More relevant data would be the salaries of attorneys working at firms with 100+ lawyers.

While the point is valid, just because you pursue a certain career doesn't mean you will make a lot of money. This is true for any profession. I think the assumption here is that no matter what field you go into, you need to be a top performer. Top performers in law go to big law firms and make a lot of money. There is a very clear, well established path to accomplish this in this field. It is almost too well established.

Go to a top law school, finish in the top of your class and you will have your choice of law firm jobs.
Of course there will be quite the investment to go to those schools plus you will be competing with very talented individuals for those jobs. But yes the key takeaway is if you want to be at the top of the compensation pyramid you need to be a top performer in your field.
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by JonFromDimensionC137 »

junior wrote:
JonFromDimensionC137 wrote:It is very easy to achieve that sort of income as a doctor or lawyer
The median midcareer salary for a law school graduate is $139,300 according to a random article I just found on bloomberg.com. But the truth of the matter is unemployed law school graduates who find alternative careers don't tend to turn up in these sorts of statistics.

I have two friends who couldn't find permanent employment after law school and had to find work in other fields. as much lower salaries.
As mention in my post, it also requires some smarts and likely a hcol area (and I'm sure a bit of luck). It is certainly not average to be earning 200k+, so looking at averages here isn't really relevant.

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JonFromDimensionC137
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by JonFromDimensionC137 »

Dieharder wrote:
JonFromDimensionC137 wrote: I just graduated last year and my friends in investment banking will have made about 140k in their first year and be likely to hit 200-300k+ once they switch to private equity or a hedge fund in another year. Keep in mind though that 80 hours a week is the norm for these guys and that the process for getting such jobs is extremely competitive.
I would at that point say that if you are working 80 hours to earn $300K then your salary is only equal to $150K at 40 hours, but even less when you consider higher taxes, higher cost, high stress, and overall poor health. Even 60 hours a week which is sort of the norm in Tech, Law, or Finance to get big bucks isn't probably worth except for a few years when you are young. The other option is to start out in a good field and work steady building up your resume and expertise and make a good living over the years.
I completely agree that the time trade off taken by investment bankers isn't nearly worth the money, unless they're genuinely passionate about what they're doing.

OP asked about jobs that make 200k, and specifically those that are making that money right out of school. Reality is that few jobs make that money without long hours, and virtually none do immediately after school.
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billydelp4
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by billydelp4 »

Gary Guss wrote:Corporate B to B sales and Finance is probably the easiest way if you are inclined that way. I agree IT is due for a big blowout, Law is way overcrowded. As an Engineer though Patent Law is an excellent niche as others have said. The sales positions are great with lots of perks but downside is usually travel every week all week.
This. Education requirements are negligible for most. The added time one might spend going to school to prepare for a new career could be spent earning money and, with some blessings, building up to the 200k income the OP is looking for.

Certainly not the most glamorous path but it sure does fit the bill.
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warner25
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by warner25 »

Depending on how you want to account for things, career US military officers could be said to earn $200k+ year; not in current cash compensation (except for generals/admirals) but certainly if you add the value of the deferred retirement pay and education benefits.

However, like many of the careers mentioned so far (medicine, big law, investment banking, tech/software, aviation) you have to start young. These fields have explicit age requirements (e.g. air traffic controllers must be under 30 to apply to the FAA, I think), very long training pipelines, and/or just seem to be hostile environments for older folks trying to make a career change.
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by nordsteve »

Speaking from experience in the software area, you can make $200k+ either 1) working as an employee for a company where "software is our business" or 2) working as an IT consultant for companies that use software to solve other business problems. There are occasionally very narrow specialties in IT staffing that pay really well (SAP folks are a good example), but those tend to dissipate over time, and I've never seen them pay $200k as an employee. You'll make more money working for large companies than small companies, as large companies have bigger problems to solve, and therefore can spend more on people to solve them.

The best deal in tech is to figure out how to tap the highly competitive west coast market for resources without paying the high cost of living.

Startup compensation is usually a combination of lower pay and lottery tickets, in the form of stock rights that have low/no current value. Younger people are notoriously bad at valuing the stock -- here's an example. When I worked in a startup, we made job offers that combined salary and stock options. No one ever asked about the most fundamental fact in valuing your stock options -- which is the number of shares outstanding.

Salaries for lawyers have a bimodal distribution. Most lawyers right out of school currently make about $60,000. Only about 15% of lawyers receive that big $$ offer, and those that accept are giving up all of their time for several years in exchange for it.

I agree with other posters that tech sales can be a great career, if you're outgoing, self-directed, and can master the basics of the technology you're selling.

Finally, I want to point out that your real goal should not be to make the maximum salary, compared to salaries nationwide. Instead, it should be to maximize the spread between your salary and the cost of living.

The key here is to look for cities with reasonable cost-of-living that are homes to Fortune 500 companies. Those cities have vibrant markets for all of the jobs that are needed to make a big company work. If you find a place like that where the nice houses are $300k, everyone sends their kids to public school, and people drive Toyota/Honda/Mazda/Subaru, you'll be in a great position to save.
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Go Blue 99
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by Go Blue 99 »

I have 3 friends that have $300k+ jobs with just an undergrad degree (though from elite private colleges). They are all in high finance- venture capital, private equity, hedge funds.

They all live in HCOL (NYC or SF), where there is opportunity for super high income. I've met some of their friends who were in their 30s making over $1M/year in finance. One hedge fund guy I met recently purchased a $12M house in San Fran.
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by HomerJ »

nordsteve wrote:Finally, I want to point out that your real goal should not be to make the maximum salary, compared to salaries nationwide. Instead, it should be to maximize the spread between your salary and the cost of living.

The key here is to look for cities with reasonable cost-of-living that are homes to Fortune 500 companies. Those cities have vibrant markets for all of the jobs that are needed to make a big company work. If you find a place like that where the nice houses are $300k, everyone sends their kids to public school, and people drive Toyota/Honda/Mazda/Subaru, you'll be in a great position to save.
I agree with this. When housing is literally 5x as expensive, getting 1.5x (or even 2x) the salary may not be worth it, financial speaking. And don't forget taxes. Some of those HCOL areas have very high state taxes as well.
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by SQRT »

There are lots of ways to be successful and happy (not suggesting one causes the other). Focussing on salary alone may not be the best way to actually earn a good salary. I think it is better to focus on what you enjoy and consequently are good at.

In my case, I became a CPA, got a part time MBA, and ended up at a big bank. Hit $200k in comp in my late 30's and ended up in mid 7 figures. Was in the right place at the right time with the right skills, for sure. Retired at 56. The fields mentioned earlier in this thread are the high paying ones but you really have to be good and a little lucky to do well early.
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by ge1 »

SQRT wrote:There are lots of ways to be successful and happy (not suggesting one causes the other). Focussing on salary alone may not be the best way to actually earn a good salary. I think it is better to focus on what you enjoy and consequently are good at.

In my case, I became a CPA, got a part time MBA, and ended up at a big bank. Hit $200k in comp in my late 30's and ended up in mid 7 figures. Was in the right place at the right time with the right skills, for sure. Retired at 56. The fields mentioned earlier in this thread are the high paying ones but you really have to be good and a little lucky to do well early.
Just to add to this. As I'm sure SQTR is aware, compensation has changed dramatically in banking in recent years (investment banking, not hedge funds or private equity). In the old days a senior accounting manager could easily earn 500k to 750k, now it is more like 350k (if that).

As others pointed out, you make 200k at any of the major banks in middle management if you work in NYC or one of the other centers. But then again 200k in NYC doesn't get you very far...
Bogle826
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by Bogle826 »

Dieharder wrote:
JonFromDimensionC137 wrote: I just graduated last year and my friends in investment banking will have made about 140k in their first year and be likely to hit 200-300k+ once they switch to private equity or a hedge fund in another year. Keep in mind though that 80 hours a week is the norm for these guys and that the process for getting such jobs is extremely competitive.
I would at that point say that if you are working 80 hours to earn $300K then your salary is only equal to $150K at 40 hours, but even less when you consider higher taxes, higher cost, high stress, and overall poor health. Even 60 hours a week which is sort of the norm in Tech, Law, or Finance to get big bucks isn't probably worth except for a few years when you are young. The other option is to start out in a good field and work steady building up your resume and expertise and make a good living over the years.

I think you're missing the point. Young bankers are not aiming to work 80+ hours for the rest of their lives making 150k a year or 75k a year on an adjusted basis based on a 40-hour work week. The end game is usually some form of buy-side transition in that you work 60 or so hours a week while eventually clearing seven figures in a senior role, but all this varies based on performance and shop. For the top of the top players, eight and nine figures are not out of the question - just read WSJ/Forbes on what the top HF/PE guys clear year-in and year-out.

Not everybody will make it, but that is what entices people to work 80+ hours. I don't think anybody wants to work 80+ hours while clearing 150k for the rest of their lives as it makes no financial sense and there are numerous jobs that pay much more on an hourly basis.
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by JDCarpenter »

nordsteve wrote:....

Salaries for lawyers have a bimodal distribution. Most lawyers right out of school currently make about $60,000. Only about 15% of lawyers receive that big $$ offer, and those that accept are giving up all of their time for several years in exchange for it.

....
The Bi-Modal distribution for young lawyers cannot be over-emphasized.

Engineering background will help, even it you didn't do patent law, but if you truly want to count on 200K within a couple years of spending three years (without income) at a 50,000 per year school, you should have ability to score in top 2% on LSAT (1% is better) and get into HYSCC, where you won't have to worry about out-competing the other 1%ers in your class. (Or, you could play the odds, take the full ride to a lesser school, come out at the top of your class (or else), and start working without debt.)
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by alfaspider »

junior wrote:
JonFromDimensionC137 wrote:It is very easy to achieve that sort of income as a doctor or lawyer
The median midcareer salary for a law school graduate is $139,300 according to a random article I just found on bloomberg.com. But the truth of the matter is unemployed law school graduates who find alternative careers don't tend to turn up in these sorts of statistics.

I have two friends who couldn't find permanent employment after law school and had to find work in other fields. as much lower salaries.
I'm a lawyer. It's important to understand that legal salaries are bi-modal, so the medians aren't very helpful. Approximately 10% of lawyers start their careers at large law firms. Your chances at having access to large law firm jobs are very good if you attend one of the top 10-15 law schools in the country, but those chances drop off very quickly as you go down the prestige scale.

Substantially all large law firms (200+ lawyers) start new graduates at $160k a year in major cities. In New York and other high cost of living cities, this escalates to $210k by year 4. However, large law firms have a very high attrition rate (voluntary, semi-voluntary, and involuntary). If you are one of 10% of the 10% that start at a large law firm, you will make partner in 8-10 years. Depending on the practice, the firm, and business prowess, partners at large law firms in major cities can make anywhere from $300k to $10 million+. Those who leave large law firms often still do relatively well, often as in-house counsel in corporations or at "boutique" firms that do higher-end legal work that attempt to compete with larger firms. Specialties in fields like tax or intellectual property (especially if you are an engineer who passed the patent bar) can help increase earnings.

For the graduates who don't meet the big firm hiring criteria, it's a crapshoot. Many will join or start struggling firms that do things like small-time personal injury. Many will work for the government (i.e. prosecutors and public defenders). Some will join non-profits. These kind of jobs will pay anywhere from $10 an hour for a fresh out of law school grad at a struggling small firm to mid $100s for a senior federal government attorney. A very small number (Well under 1%) will become very successful plaintiff's attorneys and make millions. A significant number will struggle to find meaningful legal employment and will leave the practice of law entirely.

The bottom line is that if you attend Harvard Law School, it's highly likely you will eventually make $200k a year (or the inflation adjusted equivalent in the future) if a highly remunerative job is your goal (and not public interest or a prestige job like becoming a judge). If you attend Cooley Law School (well-known and lightly regarded law school whose future is the subject of some doubt), your chances of making that salary as a lawyer are extremely small.
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by goodenyou »

Go Blue 99 wrote:I have 3 friends that have $300k+ jobs with just an undergrad degree (though from elite private colleges). They are all in high finance- venture capital, private equity, hedge funds.

They all live in HCOL (NYC or SF), where there is opportunity for super high income. I've met some of their friends who were in their 30s making over $1M/year in finance. One hedge fund guy I met recently purchased a $12M house in San Fran.
This. My close friend graduated with a BS and MS in EE in 4 years from MIT (straight 4.0), never took a finance class and began in the world of finance years ago. By the time he was 28 he was the Chief Risk Officer of UBS and went on to become CEO of multi-billion dollar hedge fund. He made high double digit millions per year. Engineers with exceptional analytical skills can do very well in finance. You have to like it though. You can't fake your way to riches.
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by hardrain »

HomerJ wrote:
nordsteve wrote:Finally, I want to point out that your real goal should not be to make the maximum salary, compared to salaries nationwide. Instead, it should be to maximize the spread between your salary and the cost of living.

The key here is to look for cities with reasonable cost-of-living that are homes to Fortune 500 companies. Those cities have vibrant markets for all of the jobs that are needed to make a big company work. If you find a place like that where the nice houses are $300k, everyone sends their kids to public school, and people drive Toyota/Honda/Mazda/Subaru, you'll be in a great position to save.
I agree with this. When housing is literally 5x as expensive, getting 1.5x (or even 2x) the salary may not be worth it, financial speaking. And don't forget taxes. Some of those HCOL areas have very high state taxes as well.
I want to offer a nuanced counterpoint here. Where this 5x number comes from is often misleading. Just because you live in the best part of town in an extreme LCOL area doesn't mean that, for a 2-3x pay raise, you're required to live in the best part of, say, NYC. NYC offers a much wider range of living options where you can still get some of desirable things in a neighborhood like shopping and night life, has public transit available, and you're not paying anywhere near 2x rent or mortgage. I'll caveat by saying the math works out much more often if you're in a top-half earning field as opposed to a field much lower on the curve.

You also have significantly more variety in job opportunities in most HCOL areas -- ie you can do something slightly more specific to your interests, or for a company that's in a more interesting field for you personally -- and additionally can switch jobs more fluidly if for some reason that makes sense (bad boss, bad medium-term advancement opportunities, ect.). To the first quote above's point -- yes a F500 company has a wide range of job opportunities, but you're often stuck with them, where as a HCOL area have 50 similar positions.

But back to the first point, the catch here in my opinion comes down to time, which ultimately drove me from a HCOL area, and the metric I used was salary per hour, all in inclusive. Circumstantially I found people in HCOL areas have less work/life balance, and so put in more hours, and also spend more time commuting. There was a brief period of time where I took a 75% salary cut and more than doubled my hourly "rate". During that time I was also netting way less and saving way less, so there are tradeoffs.

For someone young trying to maximize their future earning potential and exposure, who doesn't mind putting in ridiculously long weeks for a period of time, and can live cheaply (no kids, for example, and thus no needed car, no parking, don't mind old buildings, can take on roommates, ect.) there's a pretty compelling case for HCOL areas. From there it comes down to how people's perspective on their time changes.
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Re: How to get a 200k+/year job?

Post by Cuzz35 »

Public Accounting will get you up to those numbers in 10-20 years. 1 year of school to get your masters in accounting/tax and enough credits to sit for the CPA exam. Pass CPA exam in first year and let the grind begin. In addition, you'll get to work those 60-80 hour weeks pretty frequently.

There's always exceptions to this in where others do much better, especially if they work big 4 and move outside of public accounting.
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