What are your 2 retirement numbers?

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Confused
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by Confused » Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:20 am

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travellight
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by travellight » Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:09 am

"For those of you who posted a number, does it include a significant cushion for the next time there is a big downturn like 2008?
Or do you have a very conservative portfolio?"

Mine includes a significant cushion in general, probably because I am fiscally paranoid. I have very little of my net worth in the market so it does not factor in the downturn. My portfolio is highly concentrated in real estate which I believe is like a bond.
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DonCamillo
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by DonCamillo » Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:17 am

Our annual expenses are $X, most of which are discretionary expenses like travel. Current salary is also about $X. Pensions (from previous careers) and Social Security are also about $X. Interest and dividends are a little less than $X. I could live on any one of the three, and in fact am living exclusively on Pensions and Social Security currently. Salary goes into retirement savings and interest and dividends are reinvested.

Total savings is about $35X. I am over 70. I have done a lot of genealogical research and the only one of my known ancestors to live past the age of 90 died in London in the year 1656. Many, including my father, a grandfather, and a great grandfather, lived into their late 80s. I do not expect to live more than 20 years, so even a 5% withdrawal rate seems reasonable. I could spend 4 times as much as I am spending now. I don't need it. Over half of our spending is already leisure related, and our only debt is the current month's credit card charges that are always paid in full.

If my work became even mildly annoying, much less unbearable, I would retire at the end of the current semester. Instead, I enjoy teaching and will probably continue until my abilities start to decline. As a college professor, I am rated by my students at the end of every semester. If my ratings drop, I will retire. Lately, the ratings have been going up. In addition, my students have also been rating my courses as getting more difficult, and my grading as challenging, so I know I am not getting good ratings by pandering to my students.

My financial position has increased dramatically as a result of working past normal retirement age. I am at least twice as well off as I would have been if I retired at 65, and at least three times as well off as if I had retired at 60.
Les vieillards aiment à donner de bons préceptes, pour se consoler de n'être plus en état de donner de mauvais exemples. | (François, duc de La Rochefoucauld, maxim 93)

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Goldfinger
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by Goldfinger » Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:41 am

I actually have had 3 numbers in mind since having begun investing 26 years ago:

Minimum: 2.0M

Midpoint: 2.5M

Maximum: 3.0M

Another way to name each level might be "good/better/best." If I teach another 8.5 years until age 59, I'll be getting a decent pension. If I retire between age 55-58, it would be a reduced pension (by about 45%). Estimated annual portfolio need is in the range of 70-80K beyond what the pension will cover. We haven't funded our 529s very aggressively, but have made moderate contributions. We have 4 kids ranging from 6-17 yrs old.

The huge unknown variable is DW's future retirement date. I get the sense that she'll keep working well beyond my retirement date because she's so type A, but we won't know until it's time. There is, of course, the "bridge" period in between now and when DW begins SS. Annuitizing between her retirement date and her SS coming on line warrants consideration. She turns 49 next week.

If we downsized now, I could retire now - although we're only 75% of the way to meeting our minimum number. This is assuming that DW kept working for another decade or so, although I don't like assuming that.

Very difficult to know in the presence of a few unknown variables, but very thought-provoking either way. So we keep plugging along and staying the course.

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Wildebeest
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by Wildebeest » Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:45 am

DonCamillo wrote:Our annual expenses are $X, most of which are discretionary expenses like travel. Current salary is also about $X. Pensions (from previous careers) and Social Security are also about $X. Interest and dividends are a little less than $X. I could live on any one of the three, and in fact am living exclusively on Pensions and Social Security currently. Salary goes into retirement savings and interest and dividends are reinvested.

Total savings is about $35X. I am over 70. I have done a lot of genealogical research and the only one of my known ancestors to live past the age of 90 died in London in the year 1656. Many, including my father, a grandfather, and a great grandfather, lived into their late 80s. I do not expect to live more than 20 years, so even a 5% withdrawal rate seems reasonable. I could spend 4 times as much as I am spending now. I don't need it. Over half of our spending is already leisure related, and our only debt is the current month's credit card charges that are always paid in full.

If my work became even mildly annoying, much less unbearable, I would retire at the end of the current semester. Instead, I enjoy teaching and will probably continue until my abilities start to decline. As a college professor, I am rated by my students at the end of every semester. If my ratings drop, I will retire. Lately, the ratings have been going up. In addition, my students have also been rating my courses as getting more difficult, and my grading as challenging, so I know I am not getting good ratings by pandering to my students.

My financial position has increased dramatically as a result of working past normal retirement age. I am at least twice as well off as I would have been if I retired at 65, and at least three times as well off as if I had retired at 60.
What great way of looking at "your 2 retirement numbers".

I wish that more people would be so fortunate with work, life and finances.
The Golden Rule: One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by travellight » Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:54 am

"Snacks: $13/month
Health insurance: $71/month
Personal care: $12/month"

@confused: Wow, I am amazed you have a snack budget! And that your personal care is also budgeted and so low. I am not even sure what I would put in that category; shampoo/toothpaste?
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hnzw rui
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by hnzw rui » Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:11 pm

island wrote:For those of you who posted a number, does it include a significant cushion for the next time there is a big downturn like 2008?
Or do you have a very conservative portfolio?

How do you factor in that risk?
Portfolio is 60/40 and target is 3% initial WR. Fixed mortgage is 25% of gross, the real cost of which erodes with inflation and will eventually go away in 30 years. Income taxes (25% of gross) are also based on ordinary income for single living in CA using just the standard deduction and exemption. I'm qualified for head of household, might be able to take mortgage interest deduction, and taxes on investment income should be lower so that's part of the cushion. Also, if I was able to live on a 10% pay cut and no raises for several years, I figure it would be no different in retirement. If investments are down or inflation is up, just need to tighten the belt a bit. Less dinners out, cut down on bday and xmas gifts, etc. The option of moving to LCOL area is also made much easier since I wouldn't have to worry about getting a job anymore.

That said, if ACA gets repealed, I'd have to win a very, very, very big lottery pot to even consider retiring.

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zaboomafoozarg
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by zaboomafoozarg » Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:18 pm

Desired number: 35 times annual expenses

Desperate number: 25 times annual expenses

My expenses are usually around $30k, but might be higher in the future.

tj
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by tj » Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:24 pm

Being only 30, I don't have a number.

I'd guess that I need between $2k and $3k per month. I'd guess that Social Security will cover 1/3 to 1/2 of that.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by Morik » Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:35 pm

I haven't given much thought to healthcare costs.
I know I could do some research bow, but does anyone have a general idea of how much health insurance costs for 2 retiree? (Expecting to have at least 3m portfolio and probably $50k in ss, by today's numbers)

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by Confused » Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:36 pm

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sambb
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by sambb » Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:58 pm

hard to know the number, because i would like to pay for my kids college, and unknown what it would be

travellight
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by travellight » Sat Oct 24, 2015 1:18 pm

@ confused: Wow, that is detailed record keeping! I am nowhere near that, lol.
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hnzw rui
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by hnzw rui » Sat Oct 24, 2015 1:36 pm

Morik wrote:I haven't given much thought to healthcare costs.
I know I could do some research bow, but does anyone have a general idea of how much health insurance costs for 2 retiree? (Expecting to have at least 3m portfolio and probably $50k in ss, by today's numbers)
It depends on age and desired coverage. In LA County, here are the estimates I'm getting from CoveredCA for 2 people for 2016:
30: Bronze/60: ~$400, Platinum/90: ~$700
40: Bronze/60: ~$450, Platinum/90: ~$800
50: Bronze/60: ~$600, Platinum/90: ~$1100
60: Bronze/60: ~$1000, Platinum/90: ~$1600

Bronze is minimum coverage and is expected to cover 60% of your medical costs. Platinum is the highest metal tier and is expected to cover roughly 90% of costs. There's also Silver/70 and Gold/80 in between. If you're healthy, Bronze/60 + HSA plan is a very good way to go.

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DonCamillo
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by DonCamillo » Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:59 pm

hnzw rui wrote:
Morik wrote:I haven't given much thought to healthcare costs.
I know I could do some research bow, but does anyone have a general idea of how much health insurance costs for 2 retiree? (Expecting to have at least 3m portfolio and probably $50k in ss, by today's numbers)
It depends on age and desired coverage. In LA County, here are the estimates I'm getting from CoveredCA for 2 people for 2016:
30: Bronze/60: ~$400, Platinum/90: ~$700
40: Bronze/60: ~$450, Platinum/90: ~$800
50: Bronze/60: ~$600, Platinum/90: ~$1100
60: Bronze/60: ~$1000, Platinum/90: ~$1600

Bronze is minimum coverage and is expected to cover 60% of your medical costs. Platinum is the highest metal tier and is expected to cover roughly 90% of costs. There's also Silver/70 and Gold/80 in between. If you're healthy, Bronze/60 + HSA plan is a very good way to go.
After age 65, if you are in Medicare, currently Part A, B, & D costs about $120 a month per person. That will probably continue to increase faster than inflation. You will probably have out of pocket expenses of a couple thousand dollars a year. You might also buy a medicare supplemental plan. If your income is below $85,000 a year (single) or $170,000 a year (married), you will pay premiums that amount to 25% of what it costs the government for your care plus deductibles. If your income is higher, you will pay significantly more. You will get a subsidy compared to the ACA rates above, but you still should plan on medical care being one of your largest expenses in retirement. Medicare does not cover nursing homes, and approximately half of lifetime medical costs occur in the last year of life.

I am budgeting $12,000 a year for medical for two persons after I retire, and keeping $250,000 in my Roth IRA as a medical care reserve fund in addition to that.
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by randomguy » Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:22 pm

hnzw rui wrote:
Morik wrote:I haven't given much thought to healthcare costs.
I know I could do some research bow, but does anyone have a general idea of how much health insurance costs for 2 retiree? (Expecting to have at least 3m portfolio and probably $50k in ss, by today's numbers)
It depends on age and desired coverage. In LA County, here are the estimates I'm getting from CoveredCA for 2 people for 2016:
30: Bronze/60: ~$400, Platinum/90: ~$700
40: Bronze/60: ~$450, Platinum/90: ~$800
50: Bronze/60: ~$600, Platinum/90: ~$1100
60: Bronze/60: ~$1000, Platinum/90: ~$1600

Bronze is minimum coverage and is expected to cover 60% of your medical costs. Platinum is the highest metal tier and is expected to cover roughly 90% of costs. There's also Silver/70 and Gold/80 in between. If you're healthy, Bronze/60 + HSA plan is a very good way to go.
Note that the numbers are really location specific. Some state like New York and Vermont don't factor in age. And there is something like a factor of 2 between some low cost areas and high cost ones. And of course insurance cost is only half the battle for the people with chronic conditions.

hnzw rui
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by hnzw rui » Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:23 pm

randomguy wrote:Note that the numbers are really location specific. Some state like New York and Vermont don't factor in age. And there is something like a factor of 2 between some low cost areas and high cost ones. And of course insurance cost is only half the battle for the people with chronic conditions.
I meant to include location. I know that costs vary (hence, mentioning the rates were for Los Angeles County specifically). I think it's one of the more expensive areas for insurance in CA although certainly far from being the most expensive.

Health insurance is one reason I don't plan to retire before being eligible for full pension+medical. Unless the work situation changes drastically and becomes absolutely unbearable, I'm just gonna keep going. Heck, even when work starts to suck, I'm likely just going grit my teeth or look for opportunities for promotion or lateral transfer if I don't have at least the minimum amount. That said, I forgot to factor in costs for LTC (insurance premiums or otherwise) so $3-3.5M would probably be my minimum (with ACA in effect). Upon normal retirement, my entire stash is available for LTC as I expect pension will cover basic living expenses. I'm also open to moving to the Philippines if I start needing assisted living. My grandmother needed round the clock care near the end and the total salary for her 3 caregivers was $1200/mo.

Seriously though, medical costs in this country are out of control.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by davidsorensen32 » Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:27 pm

In the SF Bay Area

$2M for the house
$3M for retirement income
$1M for kids

Retirement expenses: $100,000 per annum. i.e. $3M if you want to retire at 55 @ 3% SWR for 40 year retirement

Total $6M is the first number - minimum.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by Scamp » Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:22 am

LearningtheRopes wrote:I live in a HCOL area with two children under the age of 5, and I am under the age of 40, but not by much. So, the first number would have to be very high, say, $3.5M - $4M, give or take. Not there yet, and am not sure I would be setting a good example of "retiring" while my kids were in grade school.
That's so funny that you would say this because I do think about a lot. I'm pseudo retired. Income still rolls in from a business interest but all my time is free. I'm not sure when I'll have to switch from accumulating to de-accumulating. I also have a 5 year old and he thinks daddy's "work" is sitting around reading Bogleheads, while we globe trot. At some point he'll figure out this isn't what most daddies do.

I remember hearing an interview right after I "retired" with actor Paul Reiser. He talked about stepping back from work after Mad About You went off the air. He had plenty of money obviously to never need to work again. He did this for several years until one day his grade school kids came home and asked him "Dad what do you actually DO!? Other dads do stuff." LOL. Apparently he started writing books at that point.

I'm waiting for that question, but for now being in 40's with freedom and enough money to lead a middle class lifestyle is good. Does this stay fun for the next 50 years, I'm not sure. Does it provide a positive role model on the benefits of diligence, training, hard work, and entrepreneurship? Or am I that slacker dad always traveling to the next adventure? Guess we'll see. :sharebeer

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by Scamp » Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:32 am

I'm curious what goes into people's number? Is it total net worth? Does it include residence, rental property, etc? Does it include business assets? Or is it strictly money in the market (plus cash)?

I wonder when I model SWR's which number to include? I keep track of net worth, thats easy. But owning a chunk of real estate, some of which generates income makes it harder to figure SWR or how much is 'enough' with cFIRE. It seems to me all the modeling is based strictly market based assets so I treat income producing RE as part of my Fixed Income. Does anyone else do this?

To stay on topic my best guess is

Aspirational $6mm
Realistic $5mm
Pull trigger if had to ... done already.

travellight
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by travellight » Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:46 am

^I am going by net worth. It is easiest, simplest to compare in an apples to apples way... one could sell everything and live off that liquidated amount.
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furikake
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by furikake » Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:55 am

65x of my current expenses would be my ultimate number, but my friends told me I would never retire, so I don't know. Currently at 55x, I can walk away anytime now, but I don't feel comfortable until I get to 65x.

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HomerJ
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by HomerJ » Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:10 am

island wrote:For those of you who posted a number, does it include a significant cushion for the next time there is a big downturn like 2008?
Or do you have a very conservative portfolio?

How do you factor in that risk?
Conservative portfolio... I don't planning on having a ton of stocks In retirement... maybe 30%-40%... so a 50% drop in the stock market might only be a 15% drop in my portfolio... That just means 1 vacation that year instead of 4...

I'll probably have 5 years expenses in CDs, and the rest 40/60 stocks/bonds, so whatever that works out to.

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HomerJ
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by HomerJ » Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:11 am

furikake wrote:65x of my current expenses would be my ultimate number, but my friends told me I would never retire, so I don't know. Currently at 55x, I can walk away anytime now, but I don't feel comfortable until I get to 65x.
Why 65x? Maybe you should have 70x...

I got a feeling your heirs are going to be very very rich. :)
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HomerJ
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by HomerJ » Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:15 am

Scamp wrote:I'm curious what goes into people's number? Is it total net worth? Does it include residence, rental property, etc? Does it include business assets? Or is it strictly money in the market (plus cash)?
I'm going by investable assets... I can't take 4% out of my house each year.

My goal is $2 million (with a paid off house)... paid off house means less expenses, therefore less income required from my investable assets...

I suppose I could say $2.5 million ($2 million and a $500k house), but that messes up the SWR calculations... I'm really pulling 4% from the $2 million, not from the $2.5 million.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by HomerJ » Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:19 am

travellight wrote:^I am going by net worth. It is easiest, simplest to compare in an apples to apples way... one could sell everything and live off that liquidated amount.
But once you sell your house, your expenses go up...

My retirement planning is "With a paid-off house, I need X amount each month to live... To generate X amount, I need 25 times X in stocks/bonds/cash"

Including house equity into that makes things a lot more complicated.

If I had rental or pension or Social Security income, I would just subtract that from X.

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market timer
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by market timer » Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:26 am

HomerJ wrote:My goal is $2 million (with a paid off house)... paid off house means less expenses, therefore less income required from my investable assets...

I suppose I could say $2.5 million ($2 million and a $500k house), but that messes up the SWR calculations... I'm really pulling 4% from the $2 million, not from the $2.5 million.
Alternatively, you could say you're pulling imputed rent from your house. That's probably worth at least 4% of the house's value per year.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by Scamp » Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:52 am

HomerJ wrote:
Scamp wrote:I'm curious what goes into people's number? Is it total net worth? Does it include residence, rental property, etc? Does it include business assets? Or is it strictly money in the market (plus cash)?
I'm going by investable assets... I can't take 4% out of my house each year.
While I can't take 4% of my house per year I do receive income from some rental properties, so those seem like legit net worth inclusions. I model FIRE simulations with a combination or investible assets (no RE), rental income for a period projected into the future, then an infusion of investible assets upon future sale of the house. Seems reasonable but I'm curious how others with substantial RE in their portfolios do it. Ergo I include RE equity in my "number".

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by SJCX » Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:58 am

I have no idea.....

Me and my wife are both 44, debt free and invest more annually than we live on and will both get pensions.

We'll likely leave more money than we spend in retirement

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by Wildebeest » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:54 am

Scamp wrote:I'm curious what goes into people's number? Is it total net worth? Does it include residence, rental property, etc? Does it include business assets? Or is it strictly money in the market (plus cash)?

I wonder when I model SWR's which number to include? I keep track of net worth, thats easy. But owning a chunk of real estate, some of which generates income makes it harder to figure SWR or how much is 'enough' with cFIRE. It seems to me all the modeling is based strictly market based assets so I treat income producing RE as part of my Fixed Income. Does anyone else do this?

To stay on topic my best guess is

Aspirational $6mm
Realistic $5mm
Pull trigger if had to ... done already.
I include real estate our home/ rentals/business assets and the value of pensions/social security etc.

I like the way bobblehead did it in the networth survey 2015th Edition
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by randomizer » Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:31 am

I calculate that I'll need about $1.2m by 65 in order to retire, but that's 25 years from now. As a mental exercise, I figured how much I would need in order to trigger an early retirement:
  • $1.435m = retire at 60
  • $1.63m = retire at 55
  • $1.85m = retire at 50
  • $2.04m = retire at 45
  • $2.25m = retire today
All numbers in today's dollars.

I have basically a snowballs chance in hell of hitting any of those early retirement numbers.
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Nuvoletta
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by Nuvoletta » Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:43 am

Um, silly question, but what is this retirement number everyone else seems to know? That is, does it include your primary residence or exclude it? Thank you.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by travellight » Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:44 am

"HomerJ » Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:19 pm

travellight wrote:
^I am going by net worth. It is easiest, simplest to compare in an apples to apples way... one could sell everything and live off that liquidated amount.


But once you sell your house, your expenses go up...

My retirement planning is "With a paid-off house, I need X amount each month to live... To generate X amount, I need 25 times X in stocks/bonds/cash"

Including house equity into that makes things a lot more complicated.

If I had rental or pension or Social Security income, I would just subtract that from X."


Money is money. If I sell the house and liquidated my net worth (let's say it is 5 million), I use 4% SWR annually to pay for rent. It's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. If I didn't include the house, the number to retire is lower because I wouldn't need to account for housing. I included all real estate because it can all be liquidated to provide to the number. It gets complicated without just using net worth (all assets minus all debt) because then you've got people who have significant real estate posting a much lower number to retire because they've got rental income etc. and it is a skewed comparison.
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by SQRT » Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:57 am

HomerJ wrote:
furikake wrote:65x of my current expenses would be my ultimate number, but my friends told me I would never retire, so I don't know. Currently at 55x, I can walk away anytime now, but I don't feel comfortable until I get to 65x.
Why 65x? Maybe you should have 70x...

I got a feeling your heirs are going to be very very rich. :)
+1. Obviously not very motivated to retire.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by hnzw rui » Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:35 am

Scamp wrote:That's so funny that you would say this because I do think about a lot. I'm pseudo retired. Income still rolls in from a business interest but all my time is free. I'm not sure when I'll have to switch from accumulating to de-accumulating. I also have a 5 year old and he thinks daddy's "work" is sitting around reading Bogleheads, while we globe trot. At some point he'll figure out this isn't what most daddies do.

I'm waiting for that question, but for now being in 40's with freedom and enough money to lead a middle class lifestyle is good. Does this stay fun for the next 50 years, I'm not sure. Does it provide a positive role model on the benefits of diligence, training, hard work, and entrepreneurship? Or am I that slacker dad always traveling to the next adventure? Guess we'll see. :sharebeer
If you have a formal office in the house, you could always lock yourself there for an hour or so a day to do a quick check on your assets or pay bills (probably takes 5 minutes) then spend the rest of the time on Bogleheads. Then you could say you're a Financial Planner. Take the CFP course and exam so it's extra legit. :D

Since you mentioned a business interest, then a full (partial?) business owner is also an option. :happy
Nuvoletta wrote:That is, does it include your primary residence or exclude it? Thank you.
I just use liquid assets (stocks/bonds/cash) for mine. The pension, I count as an income stream, not asset so I don't include NPV of that. Home equity (primary residence) isn't included either. Then again, I plan to only purchase a starter house so there's not much room for downsizing unless I move to LCOL. I just consider the housing situation as if I'm permanently renting (albeit with rent control thanks to fixed mortgage and Prop 13).

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by Scamp » Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:46 am

hnzw rui wrote:
Scamp wrote:That's so funny that you would say this because I do think about a lot. I'm pseudo retired. Income still rolls in from a business interest but all my time is free. I'm not sure when I'll have to switch from accumulating to de-accumulating. I also have a 5 year old and he thinks daddy's "work" is sitting around reading Bogleheads, while we globe trot. At some point he'll figure out this isn't what most daddies do.

I'm waiting for that question, but for now being in 40's with freedom and enough money to lead a middle class lifestyle is good. Does this stay fun for the next 50 years, I'm not sure. Does it provide a positive role model on the benefits of diligence, training, hard work, and entrepreneurship? Or am I that slacker dad always traveling to the next adventure? Guess we'll see. :sharebeer
If you have a formal office in the house, you could always lock yourself there for an hour or so a day to do a quick check on your assets or pay bills (probably takes 5 minutes) then spend the rest of the time on Bogleheads. Then you could say you're a Financial Planner. Take the CFP course and exam so it's extra legit. :D

Since you mentioned a business interest, then a full (partial?) business owner is also an option. :happy
You may have taken my sarcasm about the father/son talk a little too literally. I still wonder if he'll have the same fire in the belly that I had the way he is growing up with me. I don't want to create one of those kids just waiting for their folks to die so they can live it up with the inheritance, so I'll want to perfect my SWR strategy to burn it zero on the death bed.

However you did ironically hit the CFP thing on the head. I have been thinking about doing that just for fun. (weird sense of fun I know)

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by Grogs » Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:58 am

travellight wrote:"HomerJ » Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:19 pm

travellight wrote:
^I am going by net worth. It is easiest, simplest to compare in an apples to apples way... one could sell everything and live off that liquidated amount.


But once you sell your house, your expenses go up...

My retirement planning is "With a paid-off house, I need X amount each month to live... To generate X amount, I need 25 times X in stocks/bonds/cash"

Including house equity into that makes things a lot more complicated.

If I had rental or pension or Social Security income, I would just subtract that from X."


Money is money. If I sell the house and liquidated my net worth (let's say it is 5 million), I use 4% SWR annually to pay for rent. It's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. If I didn't include the house, the number to retire is lower because I wouldn't need to account for housing. I included all real estate because it can all be liquidated to provide to the number. It gets complicated without just using net worth (all assets minus all debt) because then you've got people who have significant real estate posting a much lower number to retire because they've got rental income etc. and it is a skewed comparison.
I would treat rental income like retirement - it goes towards monthly expenses, reducing the size of 'the number'. If it's large enough, the number would eventually hit zero.I think it's OK to include the house as part of the number, but I would include housing in the annual expenses.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by travellight » Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:43 pm

^ yup, I agree. I add it to the number and will account for housing in the expenditure/costs number.
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by travellight » Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:45 pm

To make it murkier though, I am not adding/considering my pension just because most people don't have one and it makes it harder to make it an apples to apples comparison.
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tj
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by tj » Sun Oct 25, 2015 2:10 pm

travellight wrote:To make it murkier though, I am not adding/considering my pension just because most people don't have one and it makes it harder to make it an apples to apples comparison.
Why does it matter what most people have? It matters that you have it and is quite relevant to what you need your number to be.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by SGM » Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:37 pm

I never had a number let alone 2 numbers. However, I was 100% in stocks up to 6 years prior to retirement. I decided to work until it was less fun than it had been. When earlier work was less fun I either found a new job or changed careers. I kept working beyond when I had to but it was fun and I have received many requests to return to work, but it is not going to happen.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by hnzw rui » Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:13 pm

Scamp wrote:You may have taken my sarcasm about the father/son talk a little too literally. I still wonder if he'll have the same fire in the belly that I had the way he is growing up with me. I don't want to create one of those kids just waiting for their folks to die so they can live it up with the inheritance, so I'll want to perfect my SWR strategy to burn it zero on the death bed.

However you did ironically hit the CFP thing on the head. I have been thinking about doing that just for fun. (weird sense of fun I know)
I was just joking. :mrgreen: And funnily enough, I've also looked into taking an online CFP course at Pepperdine University for fun. :P

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:18 pm

island wrote:For those of you who posted a number, does it include a significant cushion for the next time there is a big downturn like 2008?
Or do you have a very conservative portfolio?

How do you factor in that risk?
Enough buffer in portfolio to pay for 25-30x retirement needs.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

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SeeMoe
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by SeeMoe » Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:49 pm

DireWolf wrote:What is your number that you will retire at once achieved? Mine is $4 million.

What is your minimum number that you would retire at if work became unbearable and you had to get out of the game? Mine is $2 million.

I would also need to own my home and be completely debt free with either scenario.
Well, if our significant pensions, annuities and earned medical benefits are combined at, say, 4% annually; then we would have the equivalent of about $4 million today . Over 40% have annual or periodic COLA's too . :moneybag
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sergeant
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by sergeant » Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:06 pm

My numbers are 53.25 and 32. I will be 53.25 years old with 32 years of service when I retire early next year on the same day I pay off our home. My pension will provide 3x our expected expenses. We also have about 1.5 million in Roth IRA's and 457b accounts.
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by GoldenFinch » Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:12 pm

We live in a rust belt city with low cost of living and high quality of life (great cultural amenities and an economy built on law, banks and hospitals). We will have more than we need, so the numbers are irrelevant. My kids will probably benefit the most from our prudent saving and Bogelhead style investing.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by Netherworld » Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:55 pm

$2 million at 50, paid-off house. (No kids and a spouse who continues to work.)

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by warner25 » Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:44 pm

tomhole wrote:Ever met a fighter pilot? Kindof a love / hate job but the love part far outweighed the hate part. I would have done it even if I weren't getting paid.
Really? I think the reality is that there is a lot more to being a fighter pilot than flying fighters, which is why most fighter pilots resign or retire from service at the earliest opportunity: additional duties, staff jobs, middle management responsibilities, etc. I think this is true in most professions. Many software developers love writing code, doctors love treating patients, teachers love their subject areas... but that stuff is just a small fraction of the job. One must be truly blessed to work in a position where they can focus 100% on the core competency they love without being bothered by a lot of other requirements. I think that's the difference with the truly rich and famous people cited earlier who choose to keep working; they can do what they love and easily outsource or delegate the rest.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by amitb00 » Sun Oct 25, 2015 8:18 pm

I read some time back that for 100k yearly expense you should have 14 m - age*0.2 . So if you are retiring at 60, u need 2 m and if u r retiring at 50 u need 4 millions.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by corn18 » Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:30 pm

This thread has helped me evaluate different numbers. I have been using a target of $110k expenses in retirement. If I target that number, I can retire at 62. But if I cut my retirement expenses to $65k, I can retire at 55. I could retire now if I cut expenses to $45k. Maybe I'm thinking about this all wrong. I can't imagine how to cut expenses that much, but I think I'll talk it over with my wife and see if we have the right expectations for retirement. First step would be to pay off the house. That would reduce annual expenses a lot. Tom
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