What are your 2 retirement numbers?

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DireWolf
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What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by DireWolf » Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:43 pm

What is your number that you will retire at once achieved? Mine is $4 million.

What is your minimum number that you would retire at if work became unbearable and you had to get out of the game? Mine is $2 million.

I would also need to own my home and be completely debt free with either scenario.

letsgobobby
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by letsgobobby » Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:54 pm

Do you mean that if you had $1.5 million and a paid off home, you would continue to work even if work were unbearable?

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sheneron
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by sheneron » Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:55 pm

[OT comment removed by admin alex]

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DireWolf
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by DireWolf » Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:55 pm

letsgobobby wrote:Do you mean that if you had $1.5 million and a paid off home, you would continue to work even if work were unbearable?
Yes. The only exception would be if my health was failing.

BahamaMan
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by BahamaMan » Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:58 pm

Another much more important number is the Date you are retiring. $4 Million in 1982 would be much better than $4 Million in 2040.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by Workinghard » Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:01 pm

sheneron wrote:
DireWolf wrote:What is your number that you will retire at once achieved? Mine is $4 million.

What is your minimum number that you would retire at if work became unbearable and you had to get out of the game? Mine is $2 million.

I would also need to own my home and be completely debt free with either scenario.
Mine are the date I would marry your daughter and the date we would get your inheritance :mrgreen:.
Sounds actionable to me. :beer

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by EnjoyIt » Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:08 pm

I have 2 numbers as well.

1) My semi retirement number. This is when my net worth reaches a critical mass which will get to my final goal on its own without any further contributions. I work just enough to keep up with my spending with minimal if any retirement contributions I expect 6-8 days a month will do.
2) Is when I am so fed up with work, If I hit this number I would quite immediately. I hope I never need #2 by reaching #1 first.

I enjoy my job, and think I will continue to enjoy it as long as I do it part time. If I could, I would work part time well into my 60s. Not because I have to, but because I find the work stimulating and hopefully will continue to find it just as stimulating decades from now.
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David Jay
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by David Jay » Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:42 pm

I have three numbers. They are lower than yours because we live at a lower income level. I am in my late 50s so these scenarios are becoming very real.

"FRA" number - the number that is enough to provide for us, calculating in full retirement age Social Security
"65" number - the number that I need to leave at 65 and take living expenses out of my portfolio until SS at FRA (or perhaps delay age 70)
"Immediate" number - the number to retire immediately, fund living expenses and health care out of my portfolio

I have hit the "FRA" number, working on the "65" number. I expect to hit the "65" number before age 65. The "Immediate" number at this late date would require the market to have a couple of really good years, perhaps a total of 20% better than long term average.
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by NightFall » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:31 pm

Assuming all numbers are in 2015 dollars, I only have one number $4 million. I'm a long way off... So maybe I'll never retire. The only scenario I would leave earlier would be health related in which case it wouldn't be voluntary.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by Pizzasteve510 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:37 pm

DireWolf wrote:What is your number that you will retire at once achieved? Mine is $4 million.

What is your minimum number that you would retire at if work became unbearable and you had to get out of the game? Mine is $2 million.

I would also need to own my home and be completely debt free with either scenario.
I set mine in 1986 and they have not changed. $2M minimum, $6M goal, $10M is the I walk whenever I hit it number, unless work is more fun than play. These were estimated as 2014 dollars at the time.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by jjface » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:42 pm

Wow $4m. I'll be out of here at $800k. $650k if I was desperate.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by frugalecon » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:46 pm

This is complicated by the fact that my spouse and I are each eligible for an inflation adjusted pension. Basically, I want assets and pension sufficient to have a steady state after tax income of $11k/month plus a paid off house. The asset number for that is decreasing year by year as the pensions continue to grow.

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TxAg
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by TxAg » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:48 pm

Depends on my age. Roughly...

$4mm in my 30's
$3mm in my 40's
$2mm in my 50's

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MikeWillRetire
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by MikeWillRetire » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:56 pm

It's time dependent. To retire now, I need $1.2 million. To retire in 2 years, I need $800,000 and an early retirement pension. To retire in 17 years from now, I don't need anything...social security and a modest pension will suffice.

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rob
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by rob » Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:04 pm

Mine is somewhere between 20 and 30 times annual expenses. Bad days at work are 15 times and really bad days 1x sounds good :-)
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warowits
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by warowits » Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:17 pm

Retire for sure if I hit 2 million in 2015 dollars. Lord knows what I would do with myself.

My bare minimum if the house was paid off is probably $900,000.

I am in a pretty low cost area, and plan to retire to an even cheaper area, so my numbers are probably less than most.

Edited to reduce lower number based on honest self reflection on how bad my day at work was.
Last edited by warowits on Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by Wildebeest » Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:23 pm

A safer number to quote would be to set an aspired yearly income number. E.g. your social security and pension income/ annuity COLA'd would be 100 % of what you expect your retirement yearly expenses to be. If you want to be safe, you can set it at 120 % or 150 %.

Setting a multiple million dollar goal may feel good, but it uncertain and may go up in smoke or be sorely lacking depending on your asset allocation, bear market, interest rates and inflation if it is still years away or you retire in the beginning of 2008.
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by CABob » Tue Oct 20, 2015 10:01 pm

It is past tense for me, but I approached it differently. After my required conditions were met (no debt, children educated and independent) and I was becoming disenchanted with work I started looking at the numbers to see if I thought they would support retirement. When they did and I was really not enjoying my work I retired.
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by jjunk » Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:32 pm

In 2015 dollars, I'd need between 1.2M and 1.7M.

The lower number would give me (theoretically) 48k/yr for ~30yrs (4% SWR). This would likely pay all of my living expenses but any major expense might hurt me more than I'd like to think. The larger number would give me (again, in theory) 60k/yr for ~40yrs (3.5% SWR). This would cover me all up for my expenses, including a major expense.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by 2comma » Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:02 am

I agree that as a % of expenses is a better way to compare but still there can be much more to it. I retired with 1M but you have to consider my wife's savings and contributions for 5 more years until she retires, my 25k pension, her 30k pension, my SS and her SS all which are going to kick in at different times.
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by Jerry55 » Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:09 am

55 & 57. Now the question is WHY did I use those numbers ???

Age 55 I can retire with a pension that provides twice as much as I require.

Age 57 I can retire after figuring out that I can pay for my last daughters monthly college costs from my

Pension. My daughter began her first year of college in Aug. 2011.

In Feb. 2012, I realized I could pay for it on a monthly basis, which I did.

12/19/2012 @ 6 pm (it was a Wednesday) I walked out of the door after 39 years. Never looked back @ age 57.

THANK YOU CSRS Pension !!! I'm Sooooo Done with it !!! (feeling fortunate indeed !!!)

She graduated from UC Irvine in May 2015 with her Bachelors Degree. #HappyCamper
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by mattshwink » Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:22 am

I only have 1, $4.1 million.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by Ryanlion8506 » Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:30 am

sheneron wrote:
DireWolf wrote:What is your number that you will retire at once achieved? Mine is $4 million.

What is your minimum number that you would retire at if work became unbearable and you had to get out of the game? Mine is $2 million.

I would also need to own my home and be completely debt free with either scenario.
Mine are the date I would marry your daughter and the date we would get your inheritance :mrgreen:.

Lol!!! 2 million if work became unbearable? No way. I believe in simplicity, not keeping up with all my neighbors. I would sell house, move lower cost of living, and we will have a nice retirement on less than 2 million. But hey...if 4 million is the goal then good for you.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by donaldfair71 » Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:34 am

2037, year both my wife and I will be able to draw non-reduced pensions that would, likely, meet all of our monthly expenses. I might work after that, but only because I like my job. May also take the part time route in my school district that is very lucrative, but we'll see in 20 years.

Due to IRA/403b contribution, we would likely be able to retire before that if we really wanted to. But at a certain point, it's too much $$ to walk away from by retiring early.

Don't really have a #2.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by nisiprius » Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:14 am

DireWolf wrote:What is your number that you will retire at once achieved? Mine is $4 million.

What is your minimum number that you would retire at if work became unbearable and you had to get out of the game? Mine is $2 million.

I would also need to own my home and be completely debt free with either scenario.
I think tying things to numbers like this is not a good idea... but, just for the record, do you mean $4 million on the day you retire, or do you mean the equivalent buying power to $4 million in 2015 dollars?

I think "the numbers" ought to relate to desired income above Social Security. I don't see how the size of the pot is particularly relevant except as it relates to the amount of income that can be provided.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by 2Birds1Stone » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:15 am

I would definitely retire by 2 million.

If work sucked 1 million would be pretty easy as well, maybe do some fun part time work while drawing 2-3% for the first 5-10 years.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by ryman554 » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:24 am

At FRA, assuming a paid off house, then my number is $1,433,085.71 in today's dollars. This is not a joke. =)

Today, my "walk away" amount is ~$4.1M in cash and liquid assets. I am currently only 2.3% of the way there because of the amount of funds stuck in my bay-area house. =(

If I really had to leave my job for whatever reason, I'd move to a very LCOL (read: get a cheap house) and would feel comfortable doing so at $2.5M

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by White Coat Investor » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:33 am

I think my original was $2M in 2005 dollars. That's probably still enough.

But I'm trying to live my life as though I'm already there and at this point, that doesn't involve quitting anything (although I am dropping the overnight shifts soon.)
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by IPer » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:41 am

$2,667,000.00 would force me to quit working immediately.
I could probably quit now and do just fine, just enjoy my work
too much at this point in time.
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by azanon » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:46 am

I only work because i need the money, so I don't have two different numbers. (I have trouble comprehending someone who works, but doesn't need the money. The reason jobs pay is because no one who's both sane and qualified would do it for free.)

1.5 million, and a paid-off home.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by whatusername? » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:50 am

$2.3MM in funds designated for usage at 60+ (2015 dollars), $1.8MM minimum. I'm still a good 20 years from early retirement, so the walkaway number right now is something astronomical.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by TheTimeLord » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:52 am

azanon wrote:I only work because i need the money, so I don't have two different numbers. (I have trouble comprehending someone who works, but doesn't need the money. The reason jobs pay is because no one who's both sane and qualified would do it for free.)

1.5 million, and a paid-off home.
Why spend 40 years working at a job you hate to accumulate enough money to quit. Wouldn't it make more sense to spend those 40 years at something that gives you a feeling or purpose and accomplishment?
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by azanon » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:52 am

nisiprius wrote:I think tying things to numbers like this is not a good idea... but, just for the record, do you mean $4 million on the day you retire, or do you mean the equivalent buying power to $4 million in 2015 dollars?

I think "the numbers" ought to relate to desired income above Social Security. I don't see how the size of the pot is particularly relevant except as it relates to the amount of income that can be provided.
Conversely, I think not calculating the number that would at least have you financially independent, is not a good idea. And yes, the size of the pot is exactly what you need to know to be able to estimate the amount of income "that number" can provide. And, right, if social security enters the picture, the "number" is the difference between the SS payment and the amount of money "the number" can generate, to pay yearly expenses.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by azanon » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:53 am

TheTimeLord wrote:Why spend 40 years working at a job you hate to accumulate enough money to quit. Wouldn't it make more sense to spend those 40 years at something that gives you a feeling or purpose and accomplishment?
If such a job existed, ... absolutely. I like jobs about as much as the average forum participant at Mister Money Moustache, to give you a rough idea.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by Wildebeest » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:55 am

ryman554 wrote:
If I really had to leave my job for whatever reason, I'd move to a very LCOL (read: get a cheap house) and would feel comfortable doing so at $2.5M
Excellent point. May be we need to have more retirement numbers. One for where you live now, one for a LCOL region and one for Peru, Panama etc where you may live like a king for what you would need here to survive.
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by corn18 » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:58 am

$2.1M in 2015 dollars.
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by Mike Scott » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:05 am

I will never have the $$ to walk out. My first number is the date I am eligible for a full pension and have 0 debt in a few years from now. This does not mean I plan to retire at that point but it does mean that I have a new set of choices. My wife will hit about the same dates and we will cross that bridge when we get there.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by TheTimeLord » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:07 am

I just have goals for gross and net annual income which is in excess of my projected annual expenses.
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by Jerry55 » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:11 am

Mike Scott wrote:I will never have the $$ to walk out. My first number is the date I am eligible for a full pension and have 0 debt in a few years from now. This does not mean I plan to retire at that point but it does mean that I have a new set of choices. My wife will hit about the same dates and we will cross that bridge when we get there.
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by DFrank » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:13 am

I'm retiring later this year with about 24X annual expenses. Thinking about it in these terms is more meaningful to me vs. an absolute number.

My wife, who is 9 years younger than me, plans to work for another 3-4 years, so I guess we could be considered to be only semi-retired next year.

I will have a small non-COLA adjusted pension that will amount to about 12.5% of expenses initially.
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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by antiqueman » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:22 am

I note a number of members seem to thing 2 million is not enough to retire , even with Social Security.


It is difficult for me to understand how the typical middle class family could not retire in their 60's with 2 million dollars in todays dollars, in addition to social security.


Am I an aberration? What am I missing?

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by warowits » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:36 am

antiqueman wrote: It is difficult for me to understand how the typical middle class family could not retire in their 60's with 2 million dollars in todays dollars, in addition to social security.


Am I an aberration? What am I missing?
If you have 2 million dollars in assets beyond your house you aren't middle class, that's what your missing. Being able to live off the income from your investments is the least middle class thing I can think of.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by tecmage » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:46 am

antiqueman wrote:I note a number of members seem to thing 2 million is not enough to retire , even with Social Security.

It is difficult for me to understand how the typical middle class family could not retire in their 60's with 2 million dollars in todays dollars, in addition to social security.

Am I an aberration? What am I missing?
Age and lifestyle probably. It would cost a lot to bridge the gap for someone in their 30s or 40s to full retirement age with health insurance costs and 60+ years of retirement especially since someone younger is less likely to get high SS benefits or a pension. In order to bridge something like that you'd need a large amount of money and have a very low draw rate (2% is my target) with a conservative AA. Secondly a lot of people seem to want aspirational retirement where instead of decreasing expenses travel and leisure activities will increase costs while still living in a HCOLA area.

For example my numbers being in my late 30s are 5 million and 3 million, I won't hit those in my 30s or 40s but I have them there just in case. By the time my 50s come about I'll have recalculated the numbers downward based on increased SS benefits, less of a gap to bridge for healthcare and fewer years of retirement with a larger draw rate. But the numbers might trend upward depending on inflation and any additional costs incurred during the next 20 years.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by anonforthis » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:48 am

I don't have numbers in mind. I can't picture myself without a job and a paycheck.
Last edited by anonforthis on Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by Wildebeest » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:00 am

antiqueman wrote:I note a number of members seem to thing 2 million is not enough to retire , even with Social Security.


It is difficult for me to understand how the typical middle class family could not retire in their 60's with 2 million dollars in todays dollars, in addition to social security.


Am I an aberration? What am I missing?
May be that this is the Boglehead Forum and that a lot of people are prodigious earners, savers and investors and plan to retire in their forties or early 50's.
The Golden Rule: One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by Jekyl » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:13 am

About $1.5M as a target in either scenario.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by southbay » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:17 am

TheTimeLord wrote:
azanon wrote:I only work because i need the money, so I don't have two different numbers. (I have trouble comprehending someone who works, but doesn't need the money. The reason jobs pay is because no one who's both sane and qualified would do it for free.)

1.5 million, and a paid-off home.
Why spend 40 years working at a job you hate to accumulate enough money to quit. Wouldn't it make more sense to spend those 40 years at something that gives you a feeling or purpose and accomplishment?
exactly. I enjoy my work. I'm not investing/saving to quit.

I don't see myself ever fully retiring. I imagine at an old age I'd scale back a lot and start to focus more on charitable causes.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by kaudrey » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am

My number is 57.

I am a Fed, and I have to work until my FRA to keep my health bennies (and my DH's, since he is on my plan).

Having said that, my projections show that we'll have about $2M-$2.5M at that time. With my pension and projected expenses, our initial WR would be less than 2%. I'd retire earlier, but the health insurance issue gets in the way.

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by surfstar » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:31 am

I have one: if we had a NW of 1.5M, we could retire right now.

But, we'll have to wait for pensions to kick in and so its more like age 50-55, depending on kids/priorities that arise in the next 20 years...

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Re: What are your 2 retirement numbers?

Post by surfstar » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:35 am

azanon wrote:
TheTimeLord wrote:Why spend 40 years working at a job you hate to accumulate enough money to quit. Wouldn't it make more sense to spend those 40 years at something that gives you a feeling or purpose and accomplishment?
If such a job existed, ... absolutely. I like jobs about as much as the average forum participant at Mister Money Moustache, to give you a rough idea.
Same here. Its work. If it were fun, why would they pay you? I have fun outside of work and I'm not good enough to be a professional surfer/climber/snowboarder/diver/camper or similar. My weekends provide me with "feeling or purpose and accomplishment" - my weekdays are a means to a [week]end.

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