Revocable Transfer on Death Deed

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wxz76
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Revocable Transfer on Death Deed

Post by wxz76 » Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:20 am

I am a member of Hyatt Legal Plan so the cost of my Will, Advance Medial Directive, and General Power of Attorney is fully covered. I’m wondering if I should also get a Revocable Transfer on Death Deed which is not covered and which will costs $625. Thank you.

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Uncle Pennybags
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Re: Revocable Transfer on Death Deed

Post by Uncle Pennybags » Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:24 am

wxz76 wrote:I am a member of Hyatt Legal Plan so the cost of my Will, Advance Medial Directive, and General Power of Attorney is fully covered. I’m wondering if I should also get a Revocable Transfer on Death Deed which is not covered and which will costs $625. Thank you.
The answer is maybe. It depends on your individual situation.

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BolderBoy
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Re: Revocable Transfer on Death Deed

Post by BolderBoy » Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:52 pm

wxz76 wrote:I am a member of Hyatt Legal Plan so the cost of my Will, Advance Medial Directive, and General Power of Attorney is fully covered. I’m wondering if I should also get a Revocable Transfer on Death Deed which is not covered and which will costs $625. Thank you.
$625? Pretty expensive. If you decide you would benefit having one of these (and your state permits same), you could create this yourself by simply copying / pasting the wording directly from your state's statute and filing it yourself. But first you need to ascertain if your state allows for such (I know Colorado and Virginia do.)

Carefreeap
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Re: Revocable Transfer on Death Deed

Post by Carefreeap » Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:01 pm

I'd contact a local title company and see if they have a sample deed. Are you sure your state allows them?

I saw one for an AZ beneficiary deed (same thing) and was amazed at how simple the document was. I can't imagine paying $625.

Unfortunately in CA efforts to allow a similar deed have died in our state legislature. Allowing it would kill the Living Trust Seminar business! :wink:

littlebird
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Re: Revocable Transfer on Death Deed

Post by littlebird » Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:11 pm

Carefreeap wrote:I'd contact a local title company and see if they have a sample deed. Are you sure your state allows them?

I saw one for an AZ beneficiary deed (same thing) and was amazed at how simple the document was. I can't imagine paying $625.

Unfortunately in CA efforts to allow a similar deed have died in our state legislature. Allowing it would kill the Living Trust Seminar business! :wink:
Didn't kill it in AZ.

My neighbor told me that she and her husband recently set up a living trust because they were "reliably" told by a local lawyer that AZ probate law requires publishing a death notice in every state the deceased ever lived in, going back to whenever. When I told her that I never heard of that, but it wouldn't be a total waste since when they need help, it would allow the children to collect their RMD's and maturing cd's, etc.. Then she told me: "Oh we don't have any of those things. We just have SS and DH's pension. We did it so we don't have to go through probate and publish the death notice in all the states we ever lived in. "

A knowledgeable AZ expert may correct me, but a quick round of internet research reveals publication is required only in the county of decedent's domicile, as expected. A look at new legislation likewise revealed no such new law. And no assets generally means no probate anywhere.

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Uncle Pennybags
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Re: Revocable Transfer on Death Deed

Post by Uncle Pennybags » Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:08 pm

littlebird wrote:AZ probate law requires publishing a death notice in every state the deceased ever lived in,
These publishing laws are going to have to change. News papers made of paper are disappearing.
Last edited by Uncle Pennybags on Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

Carefreeap
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Re: Revocable Transfer on Death Deed

Post by Carefreeap » Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:31 pm

littlebird wrote:
Carefreeap wrote:I'd contact a local title company and see if they have a sample deed. Are you sure your state allows them?

I saw one for an AZ beneficiary deed (same thing) and was amazed at how simple the document was. I can't imagine paying $625.

Unfortunately in CA efforts to allow a similar deed have died in our state legislature. Allowing it would kill the Living Trust Seminar business! :wink:
Didn't kill it in AZ.

My neighbor told me that she and her husband recently set up a living trust because they were "reliably" told by a local lawyer that AZ probate law requires publishing a death notice in every state the deceased ever lived in, going back to whenever. When I told her that I never heard of that, but it wouldn't be a total waste since when they need help, it would allow the children to collect their RMD's and maturing cd's, etc.. Then she told me: "Oh we don't have any of those things. We just have SS and DH's pension. We did it so we don't have to go through probate and publish the death notice in all the states we ever lived in. "

A knowledgeable AZ expert may correct me, but a quick round of internet research reveals publication is required only in the county of decedent's domicile, as expected. A look at new legislation likewise revealed no such new law. And no assets generally means no probate anywhere.
Normally I'd laugh but this is akin to elder abuse. :x An hour consult with an estate atty should have resulted in a will and beneficiary deed (if there was a house) and got them out the door for very little money.

We did set up a Living Trust while we were in AZ although the only real property we owned in AZ was our house. But we are special little snowflakes :wink: in that we don't have kids, wanted a pet trust and wanted the bulk of our estate including our multiple CA property interests to be sold and the proceeds to be split between a couple of charitable causes. We haven't named specific organizations as their names may change and we wanted our Trustee to have some discretion.

Six years later I've now begun the process of deeding all those property interests into the LT. :oops: At least the schedule A gives a hint to the Trustee of where to start looking. :oops: :oops: :oops:

bsteiner
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Re: Revocable Transfer on Death Deed

Post by bsteiner » Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:35 pm

Arizona has adopted the Uniform Probate Code, which provides for simplified probate procedures. I don't know if Arizona requires publication, but even if it does, it would have to be much less expensive and much less complicated than creating a revocable trust.

However, Arizona taxes the estate of a resident as a resident estate but doesn't tax a trust with no Arizona trustees (except on any Arizona source income). So if you expect a large amount of income during the administration period, you might want to have a revocable trust with no Arizona trustees. We took advantage of this once with an estate that received about $8 million of income during the administration period.

Carefreeap
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Re: Revocable Transfer on Death Deed

Post by Carefreeap » Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:36 pm

Uncle Pennybags wrote:
littlebird wrote:
Carefreeap wrote:AZ probate law requires publishing a death notice in every state the deceased ever lived in,
These publishing laws are going to have to change. News papers made of paper are disappearing.
Please correct your post. I never wrote the above statement.

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wxz76
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Re: Revocable Transfer on Death Deed

Post by wxz76 » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:27 am

Carefreeap wrote: Are you sure your state allows them?
Yes, I live in VA.

Carefreeap
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Re: Revocable Transfer on Death Deed

Post by Carefreeap » Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:06 pm

bsteiner wrote:Arizona has adopted the Uniform Probate Code, which provides for simplified probate procedures. I don't know if Arizona requires publication, but even if it does, it would have to be much less expensive and much less complicated than creating a revocable trust.

However, Arizona taxes the estate of a resident as a resident estate but doesn't tax a trust with no Arizona trustees (except on any Arizona source income). So if you expect a large amount of income during the administration period, you might want to have a revocable trust with no Arizona trustees. We took advantage of this once with an estate that received about $8 million of income during the administration period.
LOL, our estate will probably not have the "problem" your client's estate did. :wink:

Neither AZ nor CA appear to have a separate estate tax and seem to both collect their portion of whatever the Fed collects. And while I'm no expert on the subject I suspect that an estate like ours which has assets in both states will be required to file tax returns in both states just like we (still) do and pay income tax on whatever income those assets generate.

FWIW our Trustee is our CA attorney. Since our taxable stock account is with USAA I'm going to guess that the CA taxing authorities will have jurisdiction so the estate is likely to pay CA's higher income tax rate until the distributions to charity are made.

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BolderBoy
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Re: Revocable Transfer on Death Deed

Post by BolderBoy » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:42 pm

wxz76 wrote:
Carefreeap wrote: Are you sure your state allows them?
Yes, I live in VA.
I did one of these in Virginia. Took the wording directly out of the statute, word-for-word and inserted the appropriate legal property description (from the property tax assessor's statement). It was very simple in the rural county in which it was done and the Clerk accepted it as presented.

A friend did one in Henrico County and there was NO END to the hassles involved. The Clerk required exacting margins, special paper, specific font size and the legal property description could not be the one on the property tax assessor's statement and finding the one the clerk required was a paper chase to beat all. Required multiple trips and refusals to get it right.

Might be why they want to charge you a bunch.

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