Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

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roflwaffle
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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by roflwaffle » Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:41 pm

Does the method used to get quotes influence the costs? Whenever I've done online quotes, the costs are generally greater than what I'm already paying with SF, but I'm wondering if they aren't including discounts since I'm not providing enough specific information.

Lynette
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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by Lynette » Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:26 pm

I've been with State Farm for over 30 years and I think my rates are high. From a cursory glance at this thread, I getting the impression that they check credit scores. If so, do they only check on credit scores for new customers? I have frozen my credit reports with the Equifax, Experian and TransUnion so how can they check my credit score. I recently bought a new car and I got a quote when my dealer called State Farm in the evening. Next day the State Farm Office called me to give me the rate. I think the rate is very high but Michigan is a no-fault state.

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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by kjvmartin » Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:37 pm

My employer has an arrangement with Liberty Mutual for biweekly payroll deductions to pay the insurance bill, and it's supposed to include a significant discount. I signed up without shopping around and stayed with them for years.

I have 800+ credit with no accidents or tickets. I'm well over 25. They were charging me $3000 a year for auto insurance for a midsize sedan.

My new provider gives me better coverage for $1100 a year

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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by Sconie » Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:07 pm

Lynette wrote:I've been with State Farm for over 30 years and I think my rates are high. From a cursory glance at this thread, I getting the impression that they check credit scores. If so, do they only check on credit scores for new customers? I have frozen my credit reports with the Equifax, Experian and TransUnion so how can they check my credit score. I recently bought a new car and I got a quote when my dealer called State Farm in the evening. Next day the State Farm Office called me to give me the rate. I think the rate is very high but Michigan is a no-fault state.
Michigan rates are among the highest in the nation, however, it is because it's the only state that guarantees unlimited personal injury protection, or PIP. That is, it covers the policyholders' medical costs in case of an accident; Michigan is also the only state where coverage includes unlimited lifetime medical and rehabilitation benefit.
I know that you think you understand what you thought I said, but I don't think you realize that what I said is necessarily what I meant......

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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by madbrain » Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:03 am

Spirit Rider wrote: Yes, insurance is intended to be a pooled risk. However, in its perfect design it is about shared risk or probabilities. In a given risk pool we pay for the probability we will need to make a claim, not the risk of high risk entrants. When the government forces the corruption of the risk pool by forcing known high risk entrants, it is nothing more than socialism in disguise.
You almost say that like it's a bad thing ! But the government has an interest in having a high proportion of drivers insured, which is why it mandates drivers to carry insurance. If most drivers were uninsured because they either were denied or only offered exhorbitant rates, the taxpayers would be left to pay a lot of the resulting bills instead, in the form of disability payments to the victims of accidents, some of their hospital bills, damage to government property, prisons for all those caught driving without insurance, etc. Without any regulation about what factors can and cannot be considered for setting insurance premiums, the auto insurance market would be much less functional.

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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by tomd37 » Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:18 pm

One thing that jumps out to me in reading this post and another recent post on the subject of insurance rates; just how do you know what level of service you are going to get from your new company? I have been with USAA for 54 years now currently having home, auto, umbrella, and valuable personal items coverage. In all those years I have had only two claims against my auto insurance and both those were fault of the other vehicle owner. USAA was very fair in their settlements with me. How do I evaluate what any new insurance company might do for me should the need arise? How do you all answer that question? :?:
Tom D.

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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by LadyGeek » Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:11 pm

Insurance companies are rated by A. M. Best,* you can find the search engine in the right-side menu here: A.M. Best's Consumer Insurance Information Center. Click on the right-side "AMB Credit Reports" Search icon to get to the Search engine

I just got my homeowners, umbrella, car insurance renewals for State Farm. My homeowners jumped 20%, umbrella stayed the same, car is up 5%. I've had no claims in the past several years and am now looking for a replacement insurer.

The only thing that would hold me back is that my car insurance covers glass. It's a concern for me, as I've needed windshields replaced before.

BTW, please use the proper company name "State Farm". Calling them "Snake Farm" is insulting to the snakes.

* I checked the SEC reference. On March 29, 2011, AM Best furnished to the Commission on Form NRSRO a notice of withdrawal from registration in the category of financial institutions. (SEC News Digest, June 10, 2011)
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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by Louis Winthorpe III » Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:32 pm

madbrain wrote:
Spirit Rider wrote: The states that prohibited consideration of credit scores harmed most rate payers. Lower credit scores have one of the highest actuarial correlations to claim payments.
How could "most rate payers" have been harmed by forbidding the use of credit scores in setting premiums ?
Most rate payers don't have high credit scores. So if anything, it's likely the opposite.
Even if there is actuarial correlation between credit scores and claim, that is hardly justification to allow this sort of discrimination. Correlation is not causation.
Simple concept: People who are careful with their finances are generally careful in other aspects of their lives, including driving habits. Like it or not, it's highly predictive. Companies that are prevented by state law from using highly predictive factors in their analysis respond to the uncertainty by charging higher rates across the board.

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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by Louis Winthorpe III » Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:36 pm

LadyGeek wrote: The only thing that would hold me back is that my car insurance covers glass. It's a concern for me, as I've needed windshields replaced before.
I wouldn't let that hold me back. In my limited experience (one incident), the cost to replace a windshield is surprisingly cheap.

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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by LadyGeek » Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:49 pm

^^^ Myself and my husband have made several windshield claims thanks to debris (stones, etc.) dropping off of trucks on the local highways here. You can't predict when the next one will occur. These cars do have expensive windshields. However, that's a good point and I'll keep it in mind.

The A.M. Best search engine is quite helpful. Click on the "Financial Strength Rating" to sort by rating. Amica came up first, along with a number of companies I would have never known about. It doesn't list every company, perhaps it's how the database is setup.

I used the "How Does Your Insurer Rate?" entry box at the top of the page for GEICO - which is licensed for PA.
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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by RobInCT » Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:01 pm

There are other insurers who cover glass. GEICO give you the option of glass or no glass. As someone previously mentioned, windshields aren't really all that expensive. I declined glass coverage and prefer to self-insure for that, though if someone believes for whatever reason that s/he is more likely to have glass damage than the average citizen (lives next door to a gravel pit or a baseball field?), I understand why glass coverage would make sense.

With respect to insurance price discrimination, obviously everyone is being treated to some degree as a stereotype of themselves. As someone correctly pointed out, if insurance companies could accurately predict our lifetime payouts, insurance wouldn't even be a product. But there are things that we as a society--rightly or wrongly--have decided are inappropriate bases on which to discriminate among people, even where a statistically significant correlation can be found. For example, race. Most people would probably agree that it's not okay to charge white people more for insurance than black people even if it can be empirically shown that white people are riskier drivers.

Occupation is another example. I can imagine a world in which police officers (or military, for that matter) have more claims than are accounted for by other risk factors because even police officers who speed/drive recklessly probably don't get ticketed very often, so their ticketing history may not accurately reflect their overall accident risk profile. I think most people would say that even if that could be empirically verified, it wouldn't justify making police officers (or military) pay more for their car insurance than computer programmers or personal trainers.

It seems like some states have decided that as a matter of public policy, credit score is off-limits. I can see arguments both ways. I'm sure a lot of people have bad credit because they are risky and reckless, and i see where that might correlate with risky driving. On the other hand, there are a lot of reasons people declare bankruptcy, and I don't think that having a kid with cancer or getting screwed over in a bad divorce is a reason someone deserves to be treated differently in the insurance market.

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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:30 pm

I added the A.M. Best information to the wiki: Insurance (Insurance company ratings)

Comments / questions / concerns are welcome. Wiki editors should update the page directly.
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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by LadyGeek » Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:30 pm

I haven't shopped for insurance in a few years and didn't realize how much personal info is shared across the insurance databases. As soon as I entered my name and address, the next entry was "here's your cars..." :shock: Yes, I was surprised at the range in pricing.

I've got quotes from 3 additional companies, State Farm is my baseline. The difficulty is with trying to do an apples-to-apples comparison and matched coverage as close as I can to State Farm. Since my State Farm price is bundled, I got bundled quotes where I could.

- Amica - more expensive than State Farm. Auto was 25% higher, homeowners was 5 % higher.
- State Farm - "baseline" reference
- GEICO - Auto was half (52% !) less than State Farm. Homeowners is slightly higher, but it was not a bundled price. Auto - glass is included.
- Liberty Mutual - Auto and homeowners were slightly less than the unbundled GEICO pricing. I could not determine if auto glass was included.

I could qualify for USAA via my husband. However, you needed to join USAA first before getting a quote. Since I'm seeing that USAA isn't what it used to be, I skipped them. I don't want the hassle of being in their email database.

I'm also shopping for umbrella coverage, but it's easy to compare auto and homeowners as a package deal.

So far, GEICO looks like my best choice. I'll talk to them and see what I can negotiate. There's an office near work, I might do this in person. If not, I'll just call them.

Update: I should add that GEICO's homeowners insurance is underwritten by Homesite, which has an A.M. Best rating of "A" - it's not the cream of the crop. However, they appear to farm out everything but auto. Here's the list: GEICO Insurance Agency: Affiliated And Non-Affiliated Insurance Companies
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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by TradingPlaces » Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:52 pm

I am also taking a similar approach to corporations: using data mining to figure out how much I can rip off corporations.

I do so by reading blogs, finding discounts, and doing what is best for me, every time. There are many opportunities for this:

- credit card points, miles, cashback, opening bonuses,

- online and in-store sales. Then there is the version on steroids: watching prices, and as they drop, systematically asking for further discounts. If not offered, return products. This will show them that I am serious about my discounts,

- periodically dumping companies that are overcharging me,

- cancel-service, and then sign up again, using both one-time promotions and discounts. Have pulled this on Comcast a lot.

The way I look at this is very simple:

- if I don't do these tricks, someone else is doing them,
- companies are doing these tricks all the time.

I expect that on average, I am just about breaking even with the tricks that companies are pulling off. Perhaps, considering my preferences, I am coming out ahead. I.e., I might give up X, but gain Y, but I value Y more, and company values X more.

If it has not been obvious, I have deeply rooted, immense, and wide ranging hatred for corporations of all kind. The companies are out there to screw their customers every day, relentlessly. By maintaining the deep hatred towards companies, it keeps me motivated to get back at them. I am just getting even. That's all.

P.S. I have been a dis-loyal GEICO customer for nearly 15 years. Although what I say sounds like an oxymoron, it is not. I keep GEICO on their toes by applying for quotes almost every year (there was a stretch of about 1.5 years when I switched to Erie insurance because .. surprize ... they beat GEICO!). Also, I tend to respond to agent inquiries for quotes and stuff, and when their quotes are higher than GEICO, I always rub this in their face. And I never forget to tell them that if everyone was like me, the agent will be out of job, and that day is coming soon. I especially hate insurance companies.

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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by Frankonomics » Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:07 pm

LadyGeek,

I'm located in a Philly suburb and currently have Auto/Home with Erie. I've been shopping the past 2 weeks (coincidentally) as my rates have also increased the past couple of years. I received quotes from Nationwide, StateFarm, The Hartford, Amica,Travelers, Liberty Mutual, 21st Century, Progressive, Geico, Farmers, Esurance, and Erie.

Like you, Geico for Auto is about 52% less, with better (read: more) coverage. Farmers was about 34% less.

For Home, Farmers was the clear winner @ about 59% less. Allstate was about 53% less.

Worth an online quote or call if you have the time.

-Frankonomics

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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by Small Change » Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:22 pm

If one makes a glass claim, does the company consider that a "claim" like a car accident, and does that end up in some industry database?

Ditto if I use my company's (USAA in my case) tow coverage (e.g., to jump a dead battery)? Is that a "claim"?

I'm nervous / cautious about making small claims for auto (or homeowners).

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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by grabiner » Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:15 pm

Brad1 wrote:If one makes a glass claim, does the company consider that a "claim" like a car accident, and does that end up in some industry database?
If you make a claim (or if the accident is reported to the department of motor vehicles, which is required by state law if an accident meets certain conditions), it ends up in the record. But whether any particular claim affects your rates depends on the terms of your policy. Check your policy for rating information; it may say that glass claims are specifically excluded from being counted as accidents (even if they arise from accidents), or that they are treading like any other claims (counted only if the total paid claim exceeds X dollars and you are not reimbursed by the other driver).
Ditto if I use my company's (USAA in my case) tow coverage (e.g., to jump a dead battery)? Is that a "claim"?
This should not be a claim because it is not an accident; it is on an entirely different service.
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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by Spirit Rider » Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:01 am

Brad1 wrote:If one makes a glass claim, does the company consider that a "claim" like a car accident, and does that end up in some industry database?

Ditto if I use my company's (USAA in my case) tow coverage (e.g., to jump a dead battery)? Is that a "claim"?

I'm nervous / cautious about making small claims for auto (or homeowners).
Single anecdotal reference point. Glass claim was coded in my CLUE report as a:

"Non-Fault, less than $1000" claim. My insurance company stated that they only used those for rating if there were greater than three (3) such claims in a five year period.

Most insurance companies stopped even reporting the above to CLUE for roadside assistance. I don't know about USAA. You will have to check with them or somebody might know.

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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by drawpoker » Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:28 pm

grabiner wrote:.....But whether any particular claim affects your rates depends on the terms of your policy. Check your policy for rating information; it may say that glass claims are specifically excluded from being counted as accidents (even if they arise from accidents), or that they are treading like any other claims (counted only if the total paid claim exceeds X dollars and you are not reimbursed by the other driver).
Ditto if I use my company's (USAA in my case) tow coverage (e.g., to jump a dead battery)? Is that a "claim"?
This should not be a claim because it is not an accident; it is on an entirely different service.
I am the OP, also fellow traveler :) (Marylander), and I am completely baffled by what you posted grabiner.

I am familiar with the Maryland insurers who make a distinction for glass/windshield breakage as separate and apart from the usual deductible for comprehensive or collision coverages.

However, making the leap from that, to: "whether any particular claim affects your rates depends on the terms of your policy" is making me shake my head.

Policies that I have read address what is covered. Policy limits. What is excluded. Any exceptions. That's it. Never have I read one that specifically makes promises re: future premium rates. Never.

As far as those with USAA coverage for jumping dead batteries, why do you say it is not a "claim" ? The insured (USAA auto policy-holder) made a "claim" under his entitled benefits. Presumably, USAA paid out to some 3rd party vendor to honor this benefit (jumping his battery)

(People with AAA membership are told that excessive emergency road service calls within a certain time frame will result in loss of that benefit ; member is scolded to make mechanical repairs to car instead if they expect to get future freebie. True, AAA does not come under the same state regulators as insurers do. But the principle is same, business is not going to grant carte blanche forever to ingrates, are they)

You seem to be saying that auto insurers can be trusted to take the higher ground; treat "claims" differently. Make the distinction from "claims" arising from actual accident/collisions from the other kind.

My experience tells me not to be so trusting of insurance companies. Point of starting whole thread was to spotlight how it is next to impossible for a layman to know just how rates are set, and to know just who is getting screwed over (ripped ) more than others.

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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by LadyGeek » Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:52 pm

Frankonomics wrote:LadyGeek,

I'm located in a Philly suburb and currently have Auto/Home with Erie. I've been shopping the past 2 weeks (coincidentally) as my rates have also increased the past couple of years. I received quotes from Nationwide, StateFarm, The Hartford, Amica,Travelers, Liberty Mutual, 21st Century, Progressive, Geico, Farmers, Esurance, and Erie.

Like you, Geico for Auto is about 52% less, with better (read: more) coverage. Farmers was about 34% less.

For Home, Farmers was the clear winner @ about 59% less. Allstate was about 53% less.

Worth an online quote or call if you have the time.

-Frankonomics
Thank you! I had originally skipped Farmers because of the lower A.M. Best rating. I got an online quote. Yes, they are the clear winner for combined home and auto. I'm also interested in umbrella, but it's easier to compare home and auto as a package. In total package cost order:

1. Amica - more expensive than State Farm. Auto was 25% higher, homeowners was 5 % higher.
2. State Farm - "baseline" reference
3. GEICO - Auto was half (52% !) less than State Farm. Homeowners is slightly higher, but it was not a bundled price. Auto - glass is included.
4. Liberty Mutual - Auto 29 % less, homeowners 33% less than State Farm. I could not determine if Auto glass was included.
5. Farmers - Auto 28% less, homeowners 40% less than State Farm. I think auto glass was included, homeowners options could use more fine-tuning.

Farmers is $940 less than what I'm paying with State Farm. Of course this is ball park, but it's quite an incentive for me to make a serious effort to close on a deal with Farmers.
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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by grabiner » Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:21 pm

drawpoker wrote:
grabiner wrote:.....But whether any particular claim affects your rates depends on the terms of your policy. Check your policy for rating information; it may say that glass claims are specifically excluded from being counted as accidents (even if they arise from accidents), or that they are treading like any other claims (counted only if the total paid claim exceeds X dollars and you are not reimbursed by the other driver).
Ditto if I use my company's (USAA in my case) tow coverage (e.g., to jump a dead battery)? Is that a "claim"?
This should not be a claim because it is not an accident; it is on an entirely different service.
I am the OP, also fellow traveler :) (Marylander), and I am completely baffled by what you posted grabiner.

I am familiar with the Maryland insurers who make a distinction for glass/windshield breakage as separate and apart from the usual deductible for comprehensive or collision coverages.

However, making the leap from that, to: "whether any particular claim affects your rates depends on the terms of your policy" is making me shake my head.

Policies that I have read address what is covered. Policy limits. What is excluded. Any exceptions. That's it. Never have I read one that specifically makes promises re: future premium rates. Never.
My insurance policy has a separate section, "Rating Information: Maryland", which says what criteria are used in rating. The policy rating includes things such as the car, age of drivers, number of accidents, years with the insurer, etc.; the full list of rates is filed with the state insurance commissioner. When I lived in New Jersey, the rating information (from Keystone Insurance) said that the top tier was only available to drivers who had no at-fault accidents, no not-at-fault accidents, and no comprehensive claims, so drivers in that tier knew that filing a claim for vandalism could raise their rates. (There is some logic; even though you are not at fault if your car is vandalized or rear-ended, you might be at higher risk because you parked your car in a high-crime neighborhood or drove on dangerous roads.)

Future premium rates are not fixed, but they continue to be set by rules. Your insurer can raise everyone's rates, but it cannot charge you the one-charged-accident rule if its filed rates say that the one accident is not charged.
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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by drawpoker » Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:26 pm

grabiner wrote: My insurance policy has a separate section, "Rating Information: Maryland", which says what criteria are used in rating.....includes things such as the car, age of drivers, number of accidents, years with the insurer, etc.; .......Future premium rates are not fixed, but they continue to be set by rules.
That prompted me to pull out the huge book which is my actual auto policy. The "Rating Information - Maryland " section, which also includes several separate pages labeled special notices to Maryland policy-holders, runs for 13 pages of mostly esoteric explanation. Only item that is actually straightforward is the statement concerning Maryland House Bill 392 restricting premium increases "The Cincinnati Insurance Company will not increase the premium due to a claim or payment made under your Personal Injury protection Coverage".


And, can anyone explain, what is the difference between "credit score" and "insurance score" ?

Under the same B.S. information section for Maryland customers, they go on to gush " Thank you for choosing.....we work hard to provide you with the most competitive pricing possible. To determine that price, we evaluate criteria such as your driving record, claims history, coverage amounts and insurance score. These factors affected your insurance score"

% Of Open Dept Store Accts to Total Dept Store Accts Established

Huh? [What --admin LadyGeek] is that about? Where is the risk? Mature woman has lots of charge accounts with most of the major nicer stores. She likes to dress well, and furnish her home with nice things. As long as she pays the bills promptly, and overall credit score floats between 828-840, whatssa problem? This is creepy.

Why [(removed) --admin LadyGeek] would an auto insurer be concerned about something so ridiculous? Can anyone explain, would love to hear what is behind this form of idiotic reasoning? :annoyed :x :annoyed :x

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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by fishboat » Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:11 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
Frankonomics wrote:LadyGeek,

I'm located in a Philly suburb and currently have Auto/Home with Erie. I've been shopping the past 2 weeks (coincidentally) as my rates have also increased the past couple of years. I received quotes from Nationwide, StateFarm, The Hartford, Amica,Travelers, Liberty Mutual, 21st Century, Progressive, Geico, Farmers, Esurance, and Erie.

Like you, Geico for Auto is about 52% less, with better (read: more) coverage. Farmers was about 34% less.

For Home, Farmers was the clear winner @ about 59% less. Allstate was about 53% less.

Worth an online quote or call if you have the time.

-Frankonomics
Thank you! I had originally skipped Farmers because of the lower A.M. Best rating. I got an online quote. Yes, they are the clear winner for combined home and auto. I'm also interested in umbrella, but it's easier to compare home and auto as a package. In total package cost order:

1. Amica - more expensive than State Farm. Auto was 25% higher, homeowners was 5 % higher.
2. State Farm - "baseline" reference
3. GEICO - Auto was half (52% !) less than State Farm. Homeowners is slightly higher, but it was not a bundled price. Auto - glass is included.
4. Liberty Mutual - Auto 29 % less, homeowners 33% less than State Farm. I could not determine if Auto glass was included.
5. Farmers - Auto 28% less, homeowners 40% less than State Farm. I think auto glass was included, homeowners options could use more fine-tuning.

Farmers is $940 less than what I'm paying with State Farm. Of course this is ball park, but it's quite an incentive for me to make a serious effort to close on a deal with Farmers.

You may want to check out Erie Insurance. I've had them for ten years (Wisconsin..they operate in PA) and they've been good to me. I had one claim..a breaking in two buildings out back, and they covered everything, no questions asked, no depreciation on lost items (they could have easily given me the actual value of lots of fishing equipment..which was nil, but they gave me replacement cost on my loss inventory..nearly $2K). They even paid for the locksmith to install deadbolts ($300)..I wouldn't think that was their responsibility. My auto insurance has decreased slightly in ten years(they were $500 less then Allstate when I changed), two vehicles. My homeowners has gone up about 50% total over the last ten years...nearly nothing since the breakin 3 years ago.

edit: typos

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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by LadyGeek » Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:11 pm

Thanks, I checked out Erie. I have totally different results, as Erie auto was 8% higher than State Farm. This is an unbundled price, as their website did not allow for a homeowners quote (auto only).

The auto pricing alone is high enough to put them out of the running (compared to Farmers). I tried.

Now, to deal with the insurance agent sales calls. I'm glad I used my work number for contact info.
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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by abuss368 » Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:13 pm

Thank you for the information. We have held Erie Insurance policies for a long time. Every time I did due diligence, Erie was always much lower than the competition.

Best.
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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by Small Change » Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:32 pm

I guess I'm inclined to carry a high deductible on both car and homeowners and self insure for small losses like glass. That just reduces my potential number of claims, which seems a safe, prudent approach to dealing with insurance companies.

BTW, I echo what some others have said. USAA's vaunted customer service has slipped. I'm thinking of going to Amica after several decades at USAA.

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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by grabiner » Tue Jul 07, 2015 11:59 pm

drawpoker wrote:And, can anyone explain, what is the difference between "credit score" and "insurance score" ?

Under the same B.S. information section for Maryland customers, they go on to gush " Thank you for choosing.....we work hard to provide you with the most competitive pricing possible. To determine that price, we evaluate criteria such as your driving record, claims history, coverage amounts and insurance score. These factors affected your insurance score"

% Of Open Dept Store Accts to Total Dept Store Accts Established
Insurance scores are based on credit reports, but they weight factors differently. A credit score is an estimate of the probability that you will default on a new loan; an insurance score is an estimate of the probability that you will have an insurance claim. I noticed that my Credit Karma insurance score went down and my credit score went up when I opened a mortgage; the inquiry hurt me on both, but people with mortgages are significantly less likely to default on credit cards but just as likely to get into auto accidents. You must have encountered a similar phenomenon; people with several department store accounts are more likely to file insurance claims.
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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by grabiner » Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:11 am

grabiner wrote:
drawpoker wrote:And, can anyone explain, what is the difference between "credit score" and "insurance score" ?

Under the same B.S. information section for Maryland customers, they go on to gush " Thank you for choosing.....we work hard to provide you with the most competitive pricing possible. To determine that price, we evaluate criteria such as your driving record, claims history, coverage amounts and insurance score. These factors affected your insurance score"

% Of Open Dept Store Accts to Total Dept Store Accts Established
Insurance scores are based on credit reports, but they weight factors differently. A credit score is an estimate of the probability that you will default on a new loan; an insurance score is an estimate of the probability that you will have an insurance claim. I noticed that my Credit Karma insurance score went down and my credit score went up when I opened a mortgage; the inquiry hurt me on both, but people with mortgages are significantly less likely to default on credit cards but just as likely to get into auto accidents. You must have encountered a similar phenomenon; people with several department store accounts are more likely to file insurance claims.
Here is a link to an actual model used for insurance scoring: Allstate Insurance Scoring Model 7 It does not distinguish department scores from other types of credit accounts, but it gives little special benefit to mortgages and auto loans. It gives a much heavier weight to inquiries than most credit scoring models.
Wiki David Grabiner

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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by Meaty » Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:25 am

tomd37 wrote:One thing that jumps out to me in reading this post and another recent post on the subject of insurance rates; just how do you know what level of service you are going to get from your new company? I have been with USAA for 54 years now currently having home, auto, umbrella, and valuable personal items coverage. In all those years I have had only two claims against my auto insurance and both those were fault of the other vehicle owner. USAA was very fair in their settlements with me. How do I evaluate what any new insurance company might do for me should the need arise? How do you all answer that question? :?:
This may be the wrong approach but if you only needed USAA twice in 50+ years I'd argue their claim settlement process has little importance. It's used so infrequently that it has no material impact on you. Plus, if an insurance company tries to deny a valid claim you can always sue
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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by drawpoker » Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:36 pm

grabiner wrote:
grabiner wrote:...... with mortgages are significantly less likely to default on credit cards but just as likely to get into auto accidents. You must have encountered a similar phenomenon; people with several department store accounts are more likely to file insurance claims.......Here is a link to an actual model used for insurance scoring: Allstate Insurance Scoring Model 7

Why would any woman (or either sex for that matter) with a lot of dept store charge accounts be more likely to file more claims on auto policy?
Are we just mindless airheads in the underwriter's eyes? [OT comments removed by admin LadyGeek]

As for Allstate, I wouldn't trust a word of what they say. When I asked for an online quote on H.O., they took down a huge amount of detailed info on my house, yet came back with a quote so high in the stratosphere I thought I had entered wrong data in some field.
Nope, that wasn't it. Allstate insisted on using a rebuilding figure of $194 per foot :shock: when the going rate in our part of the state is plainly acknowledged as $100-$104 a foot (for my type house) When I tried to tinker with it, all I got was an error message "sorry, replacement value cannot be altered, this amount is set by Allstate".

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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by Toons » Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:46 pm

I am paying Geico 1,042.20 a year for auto insurance
2015 Honda CRV
2014 Roadtrek RV
Homeowners 900.00(increases the last 3 years)
:D
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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by drawpoker » Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:54 pm

Brad1 wrote:I guess I'm inclined to carry a high deductible on both car and homeowners and self insure for small losses like glass. ...thinking of going to Amica after several decades at USAA.
Good luck with that.

When I talked to an actual agent to get a bundled quote for auto/H.O. the auto was priced 58% higher than Cincinnati (same high liability coverages, much higher than state minimums).

When I told thus agent we weren't even in same ballpark she launched into a 2-pronged attack:

1) that Amica offered the glass/windshield breakage deal the cheaper ones did not, and that was really, really important to have; and

2) that Amica promised genuine original manufacturers replacement parts and the other companies would pay for only crummy third-rate parts no one would want for collision/comp repairs.

I politely said neither was worth the extra $250 a year to me, thanked her, and promptly hung up.

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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by rec7 » Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:51 pm

grabiner wrote:
grabiner wrote:
drawpoker wrote:And, can anyone explain, what is the difference between "credit score" and "insurance score" ?

Under the same B.S. information section for Maryland customers, they go on to gush " Thank you for choosing.....we work hard to provide you with the most competitive pricing possible. To determine that price, we evaluate criteria such as your driving record, claims history, coverage amounts and insurance score. These factors affected your insurance score"

% Of Open Dept Store Accts to Total Dept Store Accts Established
Insurance scores are based on credit reports, but they weight factors differently. A credit score is an estimate of the probability that you will default on a new loan; an insurance score is an estimate of the probability that you will have an insurance claim. I noticed that my Credit Karma insurance score went down and my credit score went up when I opened a mortgage; the inquiry hurt me on both, but people with mortgages are significantly less likely to default on credit cards but just as likely to get into auto accidents. You must have encountered a similar phenomenon; people with several department store accounts are more likely to file insurance claims.
Here is a link to an actual model used for insurance scoring: Allstate Insurance Scoring Model 7 It does not distinguish department scores from other types of credit accounts, but it gives little special benefit to mortgages and auto loans. It gives a much heavier weight to inquiries than most credit scoring models.
It looks like they are strict. I had 4 inquiries last month. That would make them freak.
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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by LadyGeek » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:20 pm

LadyGeek wrote:...1. Amica - more expensive than State Farm. Auto was 25% higher, homeowners was 5 % higher.
2. State Farm - "baseline" reference
3. GEICO - Auto was half (52% !) less than State Farm. Homeowners is slightly higher, but it was not a bundled price. Auto - glass is included.
4. Liberty Mutual - Auto 29 % less, homeowners 33% less than State Farm. I could not determine if Auto glass was included.
5. Farmers - Auto 28% less, homeowners 40% less than State Farm. I think auto glass was included, homeowners options could use more fine-tuning.

Farmers is $940 less than what I'm paying with State Farm. Of course this is ball park, but it's quite an incentive for me to make a serious effort to close on a deal with Farmers.
The Farmers numbers are in. There's nothing like dealing with a person, as the agent worked with me to get the best deal. Since I wanted a bundle home / auto / umbrella, he got better pricing by raising the liability on home + auto which lowered the umbrella - a savings of $40 on the package.

1. Amica - more expensive than State Farm. Auto was 25% higher, homeowners was 5 % higher.
2. State Farm - "baseline" reference
3. GEICO - Auto is 52% less than State Farm. Homeowners is slightly higher, but it was not a bundled price. Auto - glass is included.
4. Liberty Mutual - Auto 29 % less, homeowners 33% less than State Farm. I could not determine if Auto glass was included.
5. Farmers - Auto 50% less, homeowners 32% less, umbrella 32% less than State Farm. The total package was 44% less than State Farm.

Homeowners pricing is primarily based on square footage. State Farm's dwelling limit was higher than it needed to be. We changed a few things around to cover what I wanted. I think this is overall a better homeowners policy.

For Auto, Farmers offers a "Glass deductible buyback" option. By raising my comprehensive deductible (lower premium) and adding a few dollars with this buyback option, any glass losses will result in a $0 deductible. For someone concerned about broken windshields, I thought this was a good compromise. The towing, rental and roadside service features are better than State Farm.

As for discounts, Farmers offers discounts to professionals (doctors, engineers, etc.). All they need is a copy of my (or my husband's) college degree - which I have.

On the quote are additional discounts for: Auto/home, Early shopping, Multi-car, Paid in Full, Passive Restraint, Transfer, Engineer, Non-smoker.

Also on the quote is a one-time annoyance Policy Fee for for new policy holders - a total of $54. :annoyed However, that's not a show stopper.

Note that the Farmer's auto price was within ballpark of GEICO. It might not be all that important, but I feel more comfortable that Farmers underwrites their own policies. GEICO farms theirs out.
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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by LadyGeek » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:41 pm

drawpoker wrote:...As for Allstate, I wouldn't trust a word of what they say. When I asked for an online quote on H.O., they took down a huge amount of detailed info on my house, yet came back with a quote so high in the stratosphere I thought I had entered wrong data in some field.
Nope, that wasn't it. Allstate insisted on using a rebuilding figure of $194 per foot :shock: when the going rate in our part of the state is plainly acknowledged as $100-$104 a foot (for my type house) When I tried to tinker with it, all I got was an error message "sorry, replacement value cannot be altered, this amount is set by Allstate".
My Farmers agent used $150 / square foot as a base for the rebuilding cost. He tried to up-sell me to $160 / square foot for $30 more, but I held ground at $150. He then added 25% overhead to account for material costs and inflation.

The total was still less than State Farm, which I think inflated the rebuilding costs.
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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by mindboggling » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:57 pm

I was just notified that my State Farm homeowner's insurance was going up 17.2 percent. I moved everything to Geico (auto, homeowner's, umbrella). Actually the "Geico" homeowner's is with Travelers. The biggest savings was with the Geico auto. I'd been with State Farm for about five years. It was worth the time on the phone.

steve
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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by rec7 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:08 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
LadyGeek wrote:...1. Amica - more expensive than State Farm. Auto was 25% higher, homeowners was 5 % higher.
2. State Farm - "baseline" reference
3. GEICO - Auto was half (52% !) less than State Farm. Homeowners is slightly higher, but it was not a bundled price. Auto - glass is included.
4. Liberty Mutual - Auto 29 % less, homeowners 33% less than State Farm. I could not determine if Auto glass was included.
5. Farmers - Auto 28% less, homeowners 40% less than State Farm. I think auto glass was included, homeowners options could use more fine-tuning.

Farmers is $940 less than what I'm paying with State Farm. Of course this is ball park, but it's quite an incentive for me to make a serious effort to close on a deal with Farmers.
The Farmers numbers are in. There's nothing like dealing with a person, as the agent worked with me to get the best deal. Since I wanted a bundle home / auto / umbrella, he got better pricing by raising the liability on home + auto which lowered the umbrella - a savings of $40 on the package.

1. Amica - more expensive than State Farm. Auto was 25% higher, homeowners was 5 % higher.
2. State Farm - "baseline" reference
3. GEICO - Auto is 52% less than State Farm. Homeowners is slightly higher, but it was not a bundled price. Auto - glass is included.
4. Liberty Mutual - Auto 29 % less, homeowners 33% less than State Farm. I could not determine if Auto glass was included.
5. Farmers - Auto 50% less, homeowners 32% less, umbrella 32% less than State Farm. The total package was 44% less than State Farm.

Homeowners pricing is primarily based on square footage. State Farm's dwelling limit was higher than it needed to be. We changed a few things around to cover what I wanted. I think this is overall a better homeowners policy.

For Auto, Farmers offers a "Glass deductible buyback" option. By raising my comprehensive deductible (lower premium) and adding a few dollars with this buyback option, any glass losses will result in a $0 deductible. For someone concerned about broken windshields, I thought this was a good compromise. The towing, rental and roadside service features are better than State Farm.

As for discounts, Farmers offers discounts to professionals (doctors, engineers, etc.). All they need is a copy of my (or my husband's) college degree - which I have.

On the quote are additional discounts for: Auto/home, Early shopping, Multi-car, Paid in Full, Passive Restraint, Transfer, Engineer, Non-smoker.

Also on the quote is a one-time annoyance Policy Fee for for new policy holders - a total of $54. :annoyed However, that's not a show stopper.

Note that the Farmer's auto price was within ballpark of GEICO. It might not be all that important, but I feel more comfortable that Farmers underwrites their own policies. GEICO farms theirs out.
Wow Lady you did very well. I switched and saved $600. I am on my second year same rate. From what I hear the third year is the true test. I keep my policies pretty bare so it might be harder for me to save more. The funny thing is Amica and GEICO were with in $1 of each other on my car. Just curious what was your total insurance bill? Thanks again for the info.
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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by Frankonomics » Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:20 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
LadyGeek wrote:...1. Amica - more expensive than State Farm. Auto was 25% higher, homeowners was 5 % higher.
2. State Farm - "baseline" reference
3. GEICO - Auto was half (52% !) less than State Farm. Homeowners is slightly higher, but it was not a bundled price. Auto - glass is included.
4. Liberty Mutual - Auto 29 % less, homeowners 33% less than State Farm. I could not determine if Auto glass was included.
5. Farmers - Auto 28% less, homeowners 40% less than State Farm. I think auto glass was included, homeowners options could use more fine-tuning.

Farmers is $940 less than what I'm paying with State Farm. Of course this is ball park, but it's quite an incentive for me to make a serious effort to close on a deal with Farmers.
The Farmers numbers are in. There's nothing like dealing with a person, as the agent worked with me to get the best deal. Since I wanted a bundle home / auto / umbrella, he got better pricing by raising the liability on home + auto which lowered the umbrella - a savings of $40 on the package.

1. Amica - more expensive than State Farm. Auto was 25% higher, homeowners was 5 % higher.
2. State Farm - "baseline" reference
3. GEICO - Auto is 52% less than State Farm. Homeowners is slightly higher, but it was not a bundled price. Auto - glass is included.
4. Liberty Mutual - Auto 29 % less, homeowners 33% less than State Farm. I could not determine if Auto glass was included.
5. Farmers - Auto 50% less, homeowners 32% less, umbrella 32% less than State Farm. The total package was 44% less than State Farm.

Homeowners pricing is primarily based on square footage. State Farm's dwelling limit was higher than it needed to be. We changed a few things around to cover what I wanted. I think this is overall a better homeowners policy.

For Auto, Farmers offers a "Glass deductible buyback" option. By raising my comprehensive deductible (lower premium) and adding a few dollars with this buyback option, any glass losses will result in a $0 deductible. For someone concerned about broken windshields, I thought this was a good compromise. The towing, rental and roadside service features are better than State Farm.

As for discounts, Farmers offers discounts to professionals (doctors, engineers, etc.). All they need is a copy of my (or my husband's) college degree - which I have.

On the quote are additional discounts for: Auto/home, Early shopping, Multi-car, Paid in Full, Passive Restraint, Transfer, Engineer, Non-smoker.

Also on the quote is a one-time annoyance Policy Fee for for new policy holders - a total of $54. :annoyed However, that's not a show stopper.

Note that the Farmer's auto price was within ballpark of GEICO. It might not be all that important, but I feel more comfortable that Farmers underwrites their own policies. GEICO farms theirs out.
Just finalized my Auto/Home policies this afternoon. Auto (GEICO) = $315.02 (6 mos.)/Home (Farmers) = $358.57 (12 mos.)

For reference, here are my Erie Auto & Home "bundled" renewal prices: Auto = $597.50 (6 mos. adj.)/Home = $869 (12 mos.)

Realized Savings: Auto (GEICO) = $282.48 (6 mos.)/Home (Farmers) = $510.43 (12 mos.)

Unrealized Auto (GEICO) & Home (Farmers) Annual Savings = $1,075.39 (*assumes current GEICO rate for 12 mos.)

In my case, "bundling" with Farmers was not the best option - although they were competitive. I too got hit with Farmer's one-time annoyance Policy Fee for for new policy holders - a total of $25 (included in the above totals). I'll also note that the Erie to GEICO/Farmers policy comparisons are not apples-to-apples; I'm actually receiving better (read: more comprehensive/higher limits) coverage at lower prices - individually and overall.

This was an interesting experiment. Loyalty truly is penalized. :?

-Frank

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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by LadyGeek » Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:20 pm

Yes, many thanks for the encouragement to experiment. The coverage details will be reviewed with my husband this weekend. I'm going to close the deal early next week, so I can't can't say these are realized savings.

Here's my (nearly) final bundle pricing, annualized. The umbrella is for $1 Million liability.

State Farm: Auto $1,611.52, Home $1,204.00, Umbrella $190, total = $2,815.52
Farmers (recurring)*: Auto $802.80, Home $769.17, Umbrella $128.00, total = $1,571.97

Savings: Auto 50%, Home %36, Umbrella 33%, total 44% ($1,243.55)

I'd say you've gotten the right mix of GEICO for auto and Farmers for home. My Farmers agent said he's getting new customers transfer over from GEICO thanks to the PA homeowners insurance, which is underwritten by Homesite. Apparently, they raise their rates in the 2nd year. This was discussed after the business was concluded, it wasn't a sales pitch.

* Does not include a one-time annoyance Policy Fee of $29.04 (auto), $25.00 (home) for new policy owners. At least they didn't hit me for an umbrella policy fee.
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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by rec7 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:04 pm

Frankonomics wrote:
LadyGeek wrote:
LadyGeek wrote:...1. Amica - more expensive than State Farm. Auto was 25% higher, homeowners was 5 % higher.
2. State Farm - "baseline" reference
3. GEICO - Auto was half (52% !) less than State Farm. Homeowners is slightly higher, but it was not a bundled price. Auto - glass is included.
4. Liberty Mutual - Auto 29 % less, homeowners 33% less than State Farm. I could not determine if Auto glass was included.
5. Farmers - Auto 28% less, homeowners 40% less than State Farm. I think auto glass was included, homeowners options could use more fine-tuning.

Farmers is $940 less than what I'm paying with State Farm. Of course this is ball park, but it's quite an incentive for me to make a serious effort to close on a deal with Farmers.
The Farmers numbers are in. There's nothing like dealing with a person, as the agent worked with me to get the best deal. Since I wanted a bundle home / auto / umbrella, he got better pricing by raising the liability on home + auto which lowered the umbrella - a savings of $40 on the package.

1. Amica - more expensive than State Farm. Auto was 25% higher, homeowners was 5 % higher.
2. State Farm - "baseline" reference
3. GEICO - Auto is 52% less than State Farm. Homeowners is slightly higher, but it was not a bundled price. Auto - glass is included.
4. Liberty Mutual - Auto 29 % less, homeowners 33% less than State Farm. I could not determine if Auto glass was included.
5. Farmers - Auto 50% less, homeowners 32% less, umbrella 32% less than State Farm. The total package was 44% less than State Farm.

Homeowners pricing is primarily based on square footage. State Farm's dwelling limit was higher than it needed to be. We changed a few things around to cover what I wanted. I think this is overall a better homeowners policy.

For Auto, Farmers offers a "Glass deductible buyback" option. By raising my comprehensive deductible (lower premium) and adding a few dollars with this buyback option, any glass losses will result in a $0 deductible. For someone concerned about broken windshields, I thought this was a good compromise. The towing, rental and roadside service features are better than State Farm.

As for discounts, Farmers offers discounts to professionals (doctors, engineers, etc.). All they need is a copy of my (or my husband's) college degree - which I have.

On the quote are additional discounts for: Auto/home, Early shopping, Multi-car, Paid in Full, Passive Restraint, Transfer, Engineer, Non-smoker.

Also on the quote is a one-time annoyance Policy Fee for for new policy holders - a total of $54. :annoyed However, that's not a show stopper.

Note that the Farmer's auto price was within ballpark of GEICO. It might not be all that important, but I feel more comfortable that Farmers underwrites their own policies. GEICO farms theirs out.
Just finalized my Auto/Home policies this afternoon. Auto (GEICO) = $315.02 (6 mos.)/Home (Farmers) = $358.57 (12 mos.)

For reference, here are my Erie Auto & Home "bundled" renewal prices: Auto = $597.50 (6 mos. adj.)/Home = $869 (12 mos.)

Realized Savings: Auto (GEICO) = $282.48 (6 mos.)/Home (Farmers) = $510.43 (12 mos.)

Unrealized Auto (GEICO) & Home (Farmers) Annual Savings = $1,075.39 (*assumes current GEICO rate for 12 mos.)

In my case, "bundling" with Farmers was not the best option - although they were competitive. I too got hit with Farmer's one-time annoyance Policy Fee for for new policy holders - a total of $25 (included in the above totals). I'll also note that the Erie to GEICO/Farmers policy comparisons are not apples-to-apples; I'm actually receiving better (read: more comprehensive/higher limits) coverage at lower prices - individually and overall.

This was an interesting experiment. Loyalty truly is penalized. :?

-Frank
You did a great job Frank. Wow $358 for home we have not seen a bill like that in at least 20 years around here. I don't know if Tornado Alley has anything to do with it. If you don't mind me asking what is your home value?

Great job LadyGeek those numbers are great.

Anybody have experience with Allstate?
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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by Frankonomics » Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:02 pm

rec7,I am quite pleased with my results. Lady did very well for herself as well.

Regarding my home, just had it appraised @ $228k (in the process of eliminating PMI-- terrible I know)

Allstate was actually my #2 option for Home (very competitive, low $400s). Auto was significantly higher (low $900s for 6 mos.)

12+ quotes received and they were all over the place. There really is no making sense of the insurance industry.

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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by rec7 » Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:42 am

Frankonomics wrote:rec7,I am quite pleased with my results. Lady did very well for herself as well.

Regarding my home, just had it appraised @ $228k (in the process of eliminating PMI-- terrible I know)

Allstate was actually my #2 option for Home (very competitive, low $400s). Auto was significantly higher (low $900s for 6 mos.)

12+ quotes received and they were all over the place. There really is no making sense of the insurance industry.
That is amazing to me. You got a steal on that. The houses around here sell for 130k but the rebuild cost is 200k(Midwest) and insurance can be 1.3k with some companies. That is another wild thing a insurance company does not care what you can buy a home for only what it cost to rebuild. I once looked at a duplex for 40k but the insurance company wanted it insured for 130k because that was rebuild cost.
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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by EricBackus » Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:35 am

LadyGeek wrote:I could qualify for USAA via my husband. However, you needed to join USAA first before getting a quote. Since I'm seeing that USAA isn't what it used to be, I skipped them. I don't want the hassle of being in their email database.
I've been with USAA for many years, and I've been happy with them. I wasn't aware that they're not what they used to be. Can you tell me what gives you that impression?

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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by LadyGeek » Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:59 pm

^^^ Sure. It was a general survey of posts in this forum (search the forum for "USAA"). Yes, I did see some posts of satisfied customers, but the balance was in the negative side of the camp. The hassle to join USAA just killed my motivation to go farther.

BTW, welcome!

===========

I closed the deal with Farmers, coverage will start the day my State Farm stops (soon).

Part of the policy "fine-tuning" was to get exact percentages of the home's internal construction, namely the floor type (carpet, concrete, tile, etc.). Changing my initial estimate to more accurate numbers dropped the rebuilding cost (dwelling structure) - the premium was lower by a few dollars.

The agent is taking care of the details to transfer the insurance, which I appreciated (I don't have to do it). Here's the checklist:

- Send a notice of cancellation to State Farm indicating your intent to drop coverage. There's a form for that. You don't want coverage to drop due to lack of payment - that's not good.
- Notify the mortgage company that you are continuing insurance coverage with another company. The agent used a form titled "Evidence of Insurance for Mortgagee / Other interests." (Also notify any lien holders on your auto - I own my cars.)
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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by rec7 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 2:38 pm

Good deal Ladygeek. I just got off the phone with Farmers and Allstate. They both came in at $1040 The wild thing is Allstate says the home is worth 100k more than Farmers. I guess insurance is just cheaper in PA. than MO
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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by autonomy » Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:44 pm

Spirit Rider wrote:Single anecdotal reference point. Glass claim was coded in my CLUE report as a:

"Non-Fault, less than $1000" claim. My insurance company stated that they only used those for rating if there were greater than three (3) such claims in a five year period.
Second anecdotal point: glass claim also in CLUE report as non-fault. I have reason to believe it was also counted as an additional claim against the count of claims in a five-year period and resulted in my rates increasing.

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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by LadyGeek » Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:38 pm

rec7 wrote:Good deal Ladygeek. I just got off the phone with Farmers and Allstate. They both came in at $1040 The wild thing is Allstate says the home is worth 100k more than Farmers. I guess insurance is just cheaper in PA. than MO
Do a line-by-line comparison, as "100k more" with the same premium doesn't sound right. How does the cost compare with the same coverage?

I did my comparison using the same coverage as my existing policy so I'd be comparing "apples-to-apples". Once I got the best price, only then did I do a deep-dive negotiation to cut costs.
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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by rec7 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:45 pm

LadyGeek wrote:
rec7 wrote:Good deal Ladygeek. I just got off the phone with Farmers and Allstate. They both came in at $1040 The wild thing is Allstate says the home is worth 100k more than Farmers. I guess insurance is just cheaper in PA. than MO
Do a line-by-line comparison, as "100k more" with the same premium doesn't sound right. How does the cost compare with the same coverage?
That's it anymore the computer decides the home value. You have to go with the computer number then. So for my home the Allstate computer said it was worth 100k more than Framers even if the premium is the same. I even told them Framers said it was worth 100k less they did not care. I tried at both companies to reduce the amount no go. It is not like the old days when you could call the insurance company and buy $xx amount of insurance and they sold it to you. Today computers will tell you what to buy and you do not have a choice.
Last edited by rec7 on Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by LadyGeek » Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:57 pm

So you're looking at the dwelling and "other" structure rebuilding costs? That's where I negotiated with the agent.

He assumed a fixed $150 / square foot cost to rebuild (X times) the square footage of the house (plus 25% for "inflation" and material costs) to come up with what the home is "worth". That's the rebuilding cost. It's not an appraised value, just the cost to rebuild your home with something comparable to what you have now.

He offered to up-sell me on the home value by increasing the cost to $165 / foot^2 (square foot) for a few dollars more, but I didn't think it was worth it.

After I "fine-tuned" the construction details of the house (percentages of carpeting, tile, hardwood floor, etc.) the rebuilding cost dropped. (I was too conservative on my initial estimate.)

Your Farmers and Allstate agents should be able to do the same for you. Perhaps you just accepted the answer they gave you. Try again, asking them what numbers they used to come up with the "home value". If Allstate is overstating the rebuilding costs, it's in the agent's favor (higher premium).
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Re: Longtime Insurance Customers Get Ripped [overcharged]

Post by rec7 » Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:02 pm

I got both of my quote over 800 numbers. I hear you. I might be able to get the agent to lower that number some. But the computers today play a big role in what you pay. I miss the old days when I could call them and buy $xx amount of insurance and they sold it to me. I was the computer in those days.
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