Establishing residency in Florida

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills.
Post Reply
Topic Author
Dr. C
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:12 pm

Establishing residency in Florida

Post by Dr. C »

My husband and I own a house in New York State, live in it about 9 months/year, and are New York State residents. We also own a house in Florida and live there about 3 months/year. We are now both retired and are planning to establish residency in Florida, probably in the next 3 or so years, but will still want to keep our NY house and live in it in the summer months. Other than living in Florida 6 months and 1 day of each year, what else is required? I assume we have to change voter registration and our driver's licenses? Do all of our cars have to be registered in FL? Can we leave the gas, water, and electricity on in the NY house? What changes in address need to be done - bank, credit cards?
Gill
Posts: 8221
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:38 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Establishing residency in Florida

Post by Gill »

Search this forum. This topic has been discussed at length. You need to take every step possible because New York is very aggressive in pursuing those who haven't fully abandoned their NY domicile.
Gill
Cost basis is redundant. One has a basis in an investment | One advises and gives advice | One should follow the principle of investing one's principal
bsteiner
Posts: 9151
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:39 pm
Location: NYC/NJ/FL

Re: Establishing residency in Florida

Post by bsteiner »

Gill is correct. New York has audited a large number of taxpayers on this issue. I practice in both New York and Florida, so I see this issue frequently. We've had many such cases involving clients, some with very large amounts of tax at stake.

For income tax purposes, you'll be taxable as a New York resident if your domicile is still in New York (regardless of how many days you spend where). You'll also be taxable as a New York resident in any year in which you're in New York for more than 183 days.

For estate tax purposes, you'll be taxes as a New York resident if you domicile is in New York at the time of your death.

The lawyer who handles your estate planning should be able to discuss this in more detail. However, in short, whether you've effectively changed your domicile to Florida turns on all of the facts and circumstances.

While it's designed for income tax rather than estate tax, you might want to look at the state's nonresident audit guidelines: http://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/2014/misc/non ... s_2014.pdf.
Gill
Posts: 8221
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:38 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Establishing residency in Florida

Post by Gill »

The audit guidelines referenced by bsteiner makes it quite clear that staying in your Florida condo for over six months will not by itself make you a Florida resident in the eyes of NY. Florida needs to truly become your home.
Gill
Cost basis is redundant. One has a basis in an investment | One advises and gives advice | One should follow the principle of investing one's principal
Barefootgirl
Posts: 2519
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:05 pm

Re: Establishing residency in Florida

Post by Barefootgirl »

Is Florida equally aggressive? i.e. - if one first has a home in Florida, then later purchases a summer home in New York?

how does this scenario change the picture? thanks
How many retired people does it take to screw in a lightbulb? Only one, but he takes all day.
bberris
Posts: 2412
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:44 am

Re: Establishing residency in Florida

Post by bberris »

Gill wrote:The audit guidelines referenced by bsteiner makes it quite clear that staying in your Florida condo for over six months will not by itself make you a Florida resident in the eyes of NY. Florida needs to truly become your home.
Gill
Well that's what OP is asking. What does "truly" mean? Sell all real estate in NY and never step foot there again?
User avatar
Dale_G
Posts: 3466
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:43 pm
Location: Central Florida - on the grown up side of 85

Re: Establishing residency in Florida

Post by Dale_G »

Dr. c, I suggest you follow the link provided by bsteiner. I read most of it and it seems straight-forward and rational. Your intent to make FL your domicile is what really counts. If you are audited, you will need to show by your actions that it was in fact your intent to make FL your "home".

You can certainly keep your NY "summer" residence, and if any vehicles are left year round in NY, I would continue to register them there, but change your mailing address to FL for State and local taxing authorities and motor vehicle department.

You are going to domicile in FL, so you will want to vote there, do your banking there, etc.

I don't know if it helps when crossing the NY State line to take a short video while repeating 3 times, "I renounce thee".

Anyway welcome to FL. Please bring money.

Dale
Volatility is my friend
User avatar
JDCarpenter
Posts: 1800
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:42 pm

Re: Establishing residency in Florida

Post by JDCarpenter »

Barefootgirl wrote:Is Florida equally aggressive? i.e. - if one first has a home in Florida, then later purchases a summer home in New York?

how does this scenario change the picture? thanks
Changes it completely. Florida has neither an estate tax nor an income tax. http://www.stateofflorida.com/taxes.aspx Thus, it has no reason to pursue its domiciliaries/residents if they choose to change their official home.
Our personal blog (no ads) of why we saved/invested: https://www.lisajtravels.com/
protagonist
Posts: 9242
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 11:47 am

Re: Establishing residency in Florida

Post by protagonist »

Interesting about the aggressiveness of NY in such situations.

Does anybody have similar information on Massachusetts regarding claiming FL residency?
Barefootgirl
Posts: 2519
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:05 pm

Re: Establishing residency in Florida

Post by Barefootgirl »




Changes it completely. Florida has neither an estate tax nor an income tax. http://www.stateofflorida.com/taxes.aspx Thus, it has no reason to pursue its domiciliaries/residents if they choose to change their official home.


So speaking hypothetically, if one had plans to purchase homes in both locations, it seems to make sense to close on the Florida home first and establish residency there first.

BFG
How many retired people does it take to screw in a lightbulb? Only one, but he takes all day.
Boglegrappler
Posts: 1489
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:24 am

Re: Establishing residency in Florida

Post by Boglegrappler »

The advice you're getting is right. To understand it, you need to get comfortable with the difference between your "domicile", of which you only ever have one at a time, and your residence, of which you can have many at the same time. For most people they are the same since they only have one residence.

If you establish a domicile in Florida and keep your home in New York, you may be audited by New York state to see if you can be shown to have set foot in the state on more than 183 days. This establishes you as a "statutory resident, and subjects you to taxation as though you were domiciled in New York. If you are audited, your bank records will be demanded as well as your credit card records, phone records, EZ pass records, and anything else you might imagine that could prove that you were in New York on a given day. Its quite a thorough audit. You almost have to prove that you weren't there.

Its possible if your income is modest, they won't care, but I wouldn't bet on it.
User avatar
Matahari
Posts: 725
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:09 pm

Re: Establishing residency in Florida

Post by Matahari »

This is an older publication but inside you'll find a list of steps that will strengthen your claim to establishing domicile in Florida:

http://asiaitalk.whitecase.com/files/Pu ... ile_07.pdf
Mick
Posts: 170
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:48 am

Re: Establishing residency in Florida

Post by Mick »

JDCarpenter wrote:
Barefootgirl wrote:Is Florida equally aggressive? i.e. - if one first has a home in Florida, then later purchases a summer home in New York?

how does this scenario change the picture? thanks
Changes it completely. Florida has neither an estate tax nor an income tax. http://www.stateofflorida.com/taxes.aspx Thus, it has no reason to pursue its domiciliaries/residents if they choose to change their official home.
Not entirely true. Florida does have a homestead exemption for residents on property taxes and if you are getting this they may look a little closer.
Gill
Posts: 8221
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:38 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Establishing residency in Florida

Post by Gill »

One step that hasn't been mentioned is the document available in Florida called an "Affidavit of Domicile" which one files with the county clerk stating they have made Florida their domicile. This is by no means conclusive, but is just one step of many that need to be taken. The problem of determining domicile doesn't usually arise with the typical guy who retires, sells his house in New York and moves to Florida. It is quite clear where he has his domicile. It's the person who retains his former house in New York and buys a winter place in Florida. New York doesn't care about the Florida condo - they want to see that he has given up his New York domicile and established domicile in Florida.

When I said above that New York wants to see you have "truly" made Florida your domicile, I meant that you have taken all the steps necessary to evidence a clear intent to give up NY and adopt Florida as your domicile, not a sham situation where you buy a small condo, spend a few months there in the winter and claim Florida as your domicile with an obvious clear intent to still treat NY as your home.

Also, as mentioned above, while Florida has no income or estate tax, it does have a homestead exemption on real estate and will look into whether you are truly a resident if you claim that exemption.
Gill
Cost basis is redundant. One has a basis in an investment | One advises and gives advice | One should follow the principle of investing one's principal
kmurp
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 1:53 pm

Re: Establishing residency in Florida

Post by kmurp »

Could one gift ones NY house to an adult child or put the house in a trust to remove it from consideration by NY state?
User avatar
Rob5TCP
Posts: 3811
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:34 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: Establishing residency in Florida

Post by Rob5TCP »

Depending on your income, it might not make a great difference. S.S. is exempt from NY State Tax as is the first $20k of IRA distributions (after age 59 1/2). So if your income is modest, they might not bother. I am not sure if that is per person or per household.
Gill
Posts: 8221
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:38 pm
Location: Florida

Re: Establishing residency in Florida

Post by Gill »

kmurp wrote:Could one gift ones NY house to an adult child or put the house in a trust to remove it from consideration by NY state?
You could, but NY could still treat you as a resident for tax purposes, Ownership of a house does not determine residency. One can be domiciled in NY and rent property there.
Gill
Cost basis is redundant. One has a basis in an investment | One advises and gives advice | One should follow the principle of investing one's principal
Boglegrappler
Posts: 1489
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:24 am

Re: Establishing residency in Florida

Post by Boglegrappler »

Resident

You're a New York State resident for income tax purposes if:

your domicile is New York State (see Exception below); or
your domicile is not New York State but you maintain a permanent place of abode in New York State for more than 11 months of the year and spend 184 days1 or more in New York State during the tax year.
Above is from the NY rules.

Note that they don't say that you have to own or pay for your place to stay in NY. You just have to "maintain a permanent place of abode", so transferring your NY property to someone else who allows you to use it probably won't fly, although it might throw them off the trail long enough for you to become complacent and to build up a large tax bill that they will be able to collect with an audit. :)

Also, to clarify my previous post, the audit guidelines linked to in a post at the top of the thread state explicitly that you actually do have to prove that you were someplace else other than NY for 184 days or more, and that you are expected to maintain some kind of records in case you are audited.
User avatar
gasdoc
Posts: 2039
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:26 am

Re: Establishing residency in Florida

Post by gasdoc »

I read the article mentioned above. It states that business contacts are a powerful proof of domicile. Is it possible to domicile in Florida if you still plan to work part time in another state (New York or others), assuming you will spend 184 days or more in Florida?

gasdoc
Barefootgirl
Posts: 2519
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:05 pm

Re: Establishing residency in Florida

Post by Barefootgirl »

What about NY residency in a cemetery plot?

I am only half joking.
How many retired people does it take to screw in a lightbulb? Only one, but he takes all day.
Post Reply