gloomydog wrote:Wow I will try never to grumble about our almost 9K tax (1.86% in metrowest MA). I've never heard of >3% property tax before this - what are you getting for your money?
I ask myself the same question. Since I usually go by the adage "there is no free lunch", what are you getting for 3% property taxes that you don't get with 1%?
In CA prop13 happened before I arrived and prop-tax rates went from high down to 1%. A couple effects were no more school buses and road repair being delayed longer, public school rankings went from the best in the US to near the bottom. I have heard North Jersey schools are about the highest ranked in the US nowadays.
In regard to this comment "Our place is about 2000 sq. ft., on an acre, and over 7k in property taxes. No income taxes, though. New Hampster"......I assume the OP means "New Hampshire". If so; there is an income tax ....5% of all Interest / Dividends (with $4800 exemption per couple). This can be quite an extra and unexpected tax hit.
gloomydog wrote:Wow I will try never to grumble about our almost 9K tax (1.86% in metrowest MA). I've never heard of >3% property tax before this - what are you getting for your money?
I ask myself the same question. Since I usually go by the adage "there is no free lunch", what are you getting for 3% property taxes that you don't get with 1%?
I think it's all over the place. When I lived in NC a few years ago, property taxes covered local school, fire, police, sewer, road maintenance, garbage collection, street lights, sidewalk installation, and probably a few other things.
Where I live now, they cover the local school district only. Edited to add: On top of that, we also have an additional 1.25% income tax for local schools.
Of course, property tax rates were higher in NC.
Time is what we want most, but what we use worst. William Penn
Property taxes =- $2,800/yr
2600 sq ft on 1/3 acre
Home value = $240K
Inside city limits, so all city services included
Charlotte, NC
I've always assumed one big reason property taxes are lower in the south is due to not having to maintain snow removal equipment. On those rare occasions when it does snow, most everything non-essential shuts down or goes on delay, then back to normal after a couple of days.
State income tax hovers around 6% after itemized deductions
Last edited by spectec on Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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gloomydog wrote:Wow I will try never to grumble about our almost 9K tax (1.86% in metrowest MA). I've never heard of >3% property tax before this - what are you getting for your money?
I ask myself the same question. Since I usually go by the adage "there is no free lunch", what are you getting for 3% property taxes that you don't get with 1%?
Government employee pensions at start after twenty years on the job at 80% of pay and free health care. Mods arrive in 1, 2, 3...
3,350sf home is currently appraised at $245K for tax purposes so this year our taxes will be $8,002
This is in the Austin TX area:
TRAVIS COUNTY 0.456300%
TRAVIS COUNTY HEALTHCARE DISTRICT 0.126400%
MANOR ISD 1.515000%
AUSTIN COMM COLL DIST 0.094200%
TRAVIS CO MUD NO 2 0.974500%
TRAVIS CO ESD NO 12 0.100000%
Total Tax Rate: 3.266400%
Last edited by Looking4Ward on Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
gloomydog wrote:Wow I will try never to grumble about our almost 9K tax (1.86% in metrowest MA). I've never heard of >3% property tax before this - what are you getting for your money?
I'm sure you have heard of prop 2 1/2, passed about 25 years ago. Prop 2 1/2 limits the property tax levy to 2.5% of assed valuation. Yet, many towns in the metro area override the levy restriction on a regular basis. So they are at least 2.5% and I wouldn't be surprised if some of them are 3% or greater.
At least the excise tax is still limited to 2.5% instead of the 6.6% it was before 1980. Imagine paying 6.6% on the value of your car every year for the privilege of then paying the registration fee to register your car.
An escapee of forty (40) years ago from the People's Republic of Massachusetts.
Currently living in Kansas and our house was assessed at 300K and we paid $3648. or about 1.23% of assessed value. Local taxes are going up with the new cuts in income taxes for businesses.
Even educators need education. And some can be hard headed to the point of needing time out.
This is like comparing apples and pianos. Too many variables with no comparisons.
Mine are about 1% of appraised value, we don't have trash pickup but we do have the best public schools in the state and possibly the country. The mill rate in the town (city) next to ours is about double...they have socialized garbage collection and horrible schools.
Denver suburbs 0.65% of what I think the house would easily sell for.
Income tax is 4.63% flat tax on federal taxable income with a few adjustments including being able to subtract 100% of gross 529 contributions.
I'm not sure what extra goodies people are getting in cities/states with 2%+ property tax and 8-9% income tax, but I'm happy i don't live in one of those.
70/30 AA for life, Global market cap equity. Rebalance if fixed income <25% or >35%. Weighted ER< .10%. 5% of annual portfolio balance SWR, Proportional (to AA) withdrawals.
Close to $14K, home assessed at $430K, market is about $525K. There is seemingly no rhyme or reason with the assessments. Market comps are all over the place. I've been in quite a few of the neighbors homes, a number of them are assessed high and they need significant work to bring them into the "modern" era.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
MnD wrote:Denver suburbs 0.65% of what I think the house would easily sell for.
Income tax is 4.63% flat tax on federal taxable income with a few adjustments including being able to subtract 100% of gross 529 contributions.
I'm not sure what extra goodies people are getting in cities/states with 2%+ property tax and 8-9% income tax, but I'm happy i don't live in one of those.
[OT comments removed by admin LadyGeek]
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
MnD wrote:I'm not sure what extra goodies people are getting in cities/states with 2%+ property tax and 8-9% income tax, but I'm happy i don't live in one of those.
In our case, and I imagine many of the others in NJ, it's the proximity to NYC that counts the most. My wife's job can be found in NYC and London. There are jobs available elsewhere, but if you want the most options, you'll be in one of those two cities. Even Tokyo, Singapore, Hong Kong, Sydney are a notch down.
Another extra goodie: my particular town reputedly has the best (or near best) schools in the state; we found that to be untrue for the younger two of our kids kids (I think reputation hasn't caught up with the reality of decline), and paid $40k/child/year for private school.
Mine's around $1400 on $135k purchase/$200k current value property. It was a bit less when I lived in it and had the homeowner's exemption (California)
You northern NJ folks have it horrible. I actually grew up in NJ and my parents always complained about how high the property taxes were THEN but I had no idea. They moved to Maryland when my dad retired probably in the mid 80s.
Florida - good schools, 1/3 acre on inter-coastal
tax assessed at $325K
sq ft - 4500+
taxes $5300 (around $5100 if paid in November)
What we don't pay in property taxes, we pay in home insurance (based 700K - mandatory)
I am not sure if 'school tax' is usually part of 'property taxes'. Here in NY state in my town for my $300k house 'property tax' is $1.2k and 'school tax' is $4k (very good public school). For retirees with lets say $80k annual income the school tax only would be $2.7k.
Western Massachusetts
Assessment 375,000 (1635 sf townhouse)
Rate 1.65%=6200/year and rising every year
Excellent schools; big chunk also for excellent library, historic preservation, storm water management (river)
Also in Northern NJ. A little over 9K on 300K assessed value (3.026%). Small 1300 sq home on postage stamp lot. Town has a very good school system and a fairly easy commute to NYC.
Although schools don't impact us personally NOW, I wouldn't buy my house today, if I had school-age children, as the assigned schools have deteriated since my children attended them. Really sad to see.
My grandchildren attend better schools in the same school district, but different neighborhoods.
There are still significant differences across the district. I suppose that is the norm in many states.
Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go." - Mark Twain
Generally, the states in the NE portion of the US have very high property taxes and often income taxes as well. For decades, retirees in these states have been moving to FL and some other states.
Some of these states are now passing various tax credits for seniors. The MA version comes as a credit against state income taxes, and this IRS memorandum describes situations where the credit is taxable:
These states do have comparatively good public schools, however you have to conclude that these punishing property tax rates have entered well into the area of diminishing returns with respect to the quality of schools.
I lumped together both properties and voted $2,501 to $5,000. Southern Nevada home 10-year old 2,000 sf house on 3/4 of an acre - $765 per year. Northern New Mexico home 48-year old 2,000 sf house on 1/3 of an acre - $2,082 per year.
1. What is the SqFootage of the house,
2. What is the true market value of the house.
E.g., in the NYC Metro area, you might have a 1% tax rate in NY, and 2% tax rate in Northern NJ. While 2% is higher, for the same price, you can get a bigger house in NJ.
gloomydog wrote:Wow I will try never to grumble about our almost 9K tax (1.86% in metrowest MA). I've never heard of >3% property tax before this - what are you getting for your money?
I ask myself the same question. Since I usually go by the adage "there is no free lunch", what are you getting for 3% property taxes that you don't get with 1%?
Government employee pensions at start after twenty years on the job at 80% of pay and free health care. Mods arrive in 1, 2, 3...
How about a cite? The fire fighters I worked with in NJ had a multiplier of 2% at 20 years. teachers were 1.6%
I served on the State faculty pension committee. We could steal faculty from NJ because the pension was so poor.
NB I am not trying in any sense to be political. The question is what you get for the money. We always complained about how generous Pennsylvania was but no body wanted a NJ level of pension.
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Doom&Gloom wrote:$235 (including my 50% senior citizen discount)
~3000 sq ft on 1.8 acres in MS.
That is amazing.
It doesn't include garbage collection. Sales tax is 7%, with some communities adding a bit to that, and groceries are fully subject to sales tax. There is a state income tax, which doesn't seem too oppressive except in April. Car tags are probably a bit high, but only outrageous for new, expensive cars.
They always seem to get you in one place or another
Prop 13 reset the property tax back to 1% of value back in 1978 with an annual tax increase of 2%. Since the increased value of the house has grown more than that most years, we are now paying 0.3% of its value now.
A dollar in Roth is worth more than a dollar in a taxable account. A dollar in taxable is worth more than a dollar in a tax-deferred account.
Just for a few different data points:
- Previous house in metro Detroit area in Michigan: taxes were ~$3,800 for a 2K square-foot house assessed at $180K and sold for $205K.
- Current house in an Indianapolis suburb: taxes are ~$1,850 or 1% of assessed value. It's a 1,600 square foot single-story house sold for $200K.
- Next house in Texas: taxes will be ~$7,000 for a 2K square-foot house purchased for around $300K.
I was going to post this website, too. This is a great source of information county by county. My Illinois county is high for total assessed and percent assessed.
Part of the expense of buying a house are the property taxes. I bought a small house to minimize my payments. I love going onto Zillow and seeing the more expensive homes in my area. They don't often get over $1 Million for the mansions. What turns me off from them is the >$30,000/year property tax bill. Even as a high earner I would feel house poor with that bill due every year. The easiest way to not pay that bill is to own a small house.
I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.
SF Bay Area CA
3200sf, 1/2 acre
In the past 10 years, market value has ranged from about $800k to $1.4m. Prop 13 assessed value about $975k
$11k/year prop tax (incl sewer). 1% base rate plus about .2% of various add-ons.