Household Gross Income Poll
- White Coat Investor
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Household Gross Income Poll
If at least one person in your household was working full-time for pay (and not also a student), what was your gross household income in 2014 (in US dollars)? If you are debating what "gross household income" is, just use line 22 on your 1040.
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4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
Re: Household Gross Income Poll
On April 15th, I will ask about Adjusted Livesoft Income.
- JDCarpenter
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Re: Household Gross Income Poll
Yeah, that would bump us up a level. (And, in my own mind, that is what I consider our gross income--particularly since DW's "employer" profit charing contribution is at her option and is out of her profit center.)livesoft wrote:On April 15th, I will ask about Adjusted Livesoft Income.
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- ResearchMed
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Re: Household Gross Income Poll
The poll results thus far (44 responses) look generally very high.
In the past, there have been comments here (on BH) about how someone or other feels like they are doing poorly (or doing something "wrong"), because everyone else seems to have so much more.
This poll would probably show a definite pattern if there were a way to include the age of the individual/family/household, and also if there are two incomes vs. one.
RM
In the past, there have been comments here (on BH) about how someone or other feels like they are doing poorly (or doing something "wrong"), because everyone else seems to have so much more.
This poll would probably show a definite pattern if there were a way to include the age of the individual/family/household, and also if there are two incomes vs. one.
RM
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Re: Household Gross Income Poll
100 to 200 is a pretty broad range. Two people in that bracket may not have much in common financially with each other
Re: Household Gross Income Poll
I am single so I suppose that that makes me a "household".
Re: Household Gross Income Poll
I am still trying to figure out how one respondent does not fit into any of those categories.
- Aptenodytes
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Re: Household Gross Income Poll
You can figure it out from EmergDoc's framing.ks289 wrote:I am still trying to figure out how one respondent does not fit into any of those categories.
It would have to be someone working full time but compensated in something non-liquid. Could be a business owner who doesn't draw a salary but builds equity in the company.
Re: Household Gross Income Poll
That would be me. I retired early in 2014. Prior to that I was working full time; however, for most of the year, I was not working.ks289 wrote:I am still trying to figure out how one respondent does not fit into any of those categories.
Gordon
Re: Household Gross Income Poll
I was thinking that people might fit into more than one category such as no one working full time yet having income because both worked part time.ks289 wrote:I am still trying to figure out how one respondent does not fit into any of those categories.
EmergDoc, I think it's important to separate the retired people with low income vs. the non-retired with low income.
Edit: Never mind, now I see your first post limiting the survey to households with at least one full time earner.
- White Coat Investor
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Re: Household Gross Income Poll
I've done enough of these polls to know that there is always something you didn't think to include that it's just best to leave that sort of option.
The results of the poll were about what I expected...after 125 responses, only 3% of Bogleheads earn less than the median US household income. It's like the net worth polls that show half of us are millionaires. This forum just represents a very select sample of society-mostly high earning, mostly wealthy or rapidly on their way there.
The results of the poll were about what I expected...after 125 responses, only 3% of Bogleheads earn less than the median US household income. It's like the net worth polls that show half of us are millionaires. This forum just represents a very select sample of society-mostly high earning, mostly wealthy or rapidly on their way there.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy |
4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
Re: Household Gross Income Poll
In other words, "gross household income" does not include health insurance, HSA or FSA, 401k, 401a, 403b, 457, etc.EmergDoc wrote:If you are debating what "gross household income" is, just use line 22 on your 1040.
Also, for comparison, here are household incomes in the general population
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012 ... t-map.html
http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/income-rank/
- White Coat Investor
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Re: Household Gross Income Poll
Unless self-employed, then those are included since they come out as above the line deductions!555 wrote:In other words, "gross household income" does not include health insurance, HSA or FSA, 401k, 401a, 403b, 457, etc.EmergDoc wrote:If you are debating what "gross household income" is, just use line 22 on your 1040.
Also, for comparison, here are household incomes in the general population
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012 ... t-map.html
http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/income-rank/
Seriously though, I knew this debate would come up. I tried to keep the ranges fairly broad, so it didn't really matter (thus the $50-100K and the $100-200K categories), but if someone feels the need to be super technical in their response, then line 22 is the easiest way to do it.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy |
4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
Re: Household Gross Income Poll
Definitely. I can't believe how many 20-somethings there are on the board earning 6 figures with no student debt. I imagine that not a small number of them had all their college paid for by their parents.EmergDoc wrote:This forum just represents a very select sample of society-mostly high earning, mostly wealthy or rapidly on their way there.
I never thought that a household income of 131k a year (2015 projection) would put me below the median in an income poll!
Some of the responses I see on this board make me shake my head with how out of touch they are with the financial realities (in earning, spending, and lack of information) facing the average American household. And they also make me fear that if my wealth and income were to increase, I would increasingly post such responses.
Last edited by sawhorse on Sat Apr 11, 2015 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Household Gross Income Poll
No they are not included in Line 22, since they are not even included in Line 7, since they go through a "Cafeteria Plan". These two lines are about the same (as is AGI), but they are a minority of my actual gross income, since most goes to these things.EmergDoc wrote:Unless self-employed, then those are included since they come out as above the line deductions!555 wrote:In other words, "gross household income" does not include health insurance, HSA or FSA, 401k, 401a, 403b, 457, etc.EmergDoc wrote:If you are debating what "gross household income" is, just use line 22 on your 1040.
Also, for comparison, here are household incomes in the general population
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012 ... t-map.html
http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/income-rank/
Seriously though, I knew this debate would come up. I tried to keep the ranges fairly broad, so it didn't really matter (thus the $50-100K and the $100-200K categories), but if someone feels the need to be super technical in their response, then line 22 is the easiest way to do it.
Anyway it doesn't matter. It's just a poll in a forum. It does show that this forum is strongly skewed towards higher incomes, much more than I expected.
Re: Household Gross Income Poll
I wonder if the respondents are skewed as well such that those who make less are embarrassed to answer despite the anonymity of the poll. That's a problem you find with almost all polls.555 wrote:Anyway it doesn't matter. It's just a poll in a forum. It does show that this forum is strongly skewed towards higher incomes, much more than I expected.
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Re: Household Gross Income Poll
and more to the point: over one quarter of respondents gross greater than $300,000 per year. That's certainly in the top 2-4% of taxpaying units... despite the risks of selection bias, it's a strong indication that this group is quite special.EmergDoc wrote:I've done enough of these polls to know that there is always something you didn't think to include that it's just best to leave that sort of option.
The results of the poll were about what I expected...after 125 responses, only 3% of Bogleheads earn less than the median US household income. It's like the net worth polls that show half of us are millionaires. This forum just represents a very select sample of society-mostly high earning, mostly wealthy or rapidly on their way there.
Edited: now over one quarter; rather than one third; still highly unrepresentative of America.
Last edited by letsgobobby on Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- MN-Investor
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Re: Household Gross Income Poll
My selection was based on Line 22 of our tax return.
It sort of skews things when you realize a large long term capital gain. Basically, we sold stock in a single company so that we could invest it in a Boglehead fashion. We aren't money ahead by realizing this gain. In fact, we're paying taxes on the sale. But it impressively increases Line 22 of our tax return.
It sort of skews things when you realize a large long term capital gain. Basically, we sold stock in a single company so that we could invest it in a Boglehead fashion. We aren't money ahead by realizing this gain. In fact, we're paying taxes on the sale. But it impressively increases Line 22 of our tax return.
The key to success - Save early, save often, invest well.
- White Coat Investor
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Re: Household Gross Income Poll
I doubt that's a huge factor on this forum. People here are pretty smart and get that stuff like this is anonymous. I've been hanging out here for a pretty long time, and the results of this poll jive pretty well with what I've seen and experienced here. This forum is mostly composed of relatively high earners who care far more than the average person about building wealth.sawhorse wrote:I wonder if the respondents are skewed as well such that those who make less are embarrassed to answer despite the anonymity of the poll. That's a problem you find with almost all polls.555 wrote:Anyway it doesn't matter. It's just a poll in a forum. It does show that this forum is strongly skewed towards higher incomes, much more than I expected.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy |
4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
Re: Household Gross Income Poll
I'm surprised by this comment ED. One cares because it is relevant. Why seek investing advice if you have various debts and/or are struggling just to make ends? Just because the "average" person isn't building as much wealth doesn't mean they care less.EmergDoc wrote:I doubt that's a huge factor on this forum. People here are pretty smart and get that stuff like this is anonymous. I've been hanging out here for a pretty long time, and the results of this poll jive pretty well with what I've seen and experienced here. This forum is mostly composed of relatively high earners who care far more than the average person about building wealth.sawhorse wrote:I wonder if the respondents are skewed as well such that those who make less are embarrassed to answer despite the anonymity of the poll. That's a problem you find with almost all polls.555 wrote:Anyway it doesn't matter. It's just a poll in a forum. It does show that this forum is strongly skewed towards higher incomes, much more than I expected.
Anyway there is value to anyone who comes here, but I don't see the same causation "I care more about building wealth therefore I'm here." Rather, "I better figure out what to do with this extra money."
Re: Household Gross Income Poll
My income was especially high in 2014 thanks to a severance package and some options exercised as I retired. Going forward, income will be much much lower. So my spot in the poll is a blip. A snapshot in time.
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Re: Household Gross Income Poll
Extra money? Who do you know with extra money except people who care about building wealth enough to spend less than they earn. I know people making $50K, $100K, $200K, and $500K+ who don't feel like they have any extra money. I would argue that is the natural position of most people.JLJL wrote:I'm surprised by this comment ED. One cares because it is relevant. Why seek investing advice if you have various debts and/or are struggling just to make ends? Just because the "average" person isn't building as much wealth doesn't mean they care less.EmergDoc wrote:I doubt that's a huge factor on this forum. People here are pretty smart and get that stuff like this is anonymous. I've been hanging out here for a pretty long time, and the results of this poll jive pretty well with what I've seen and experienced here. This forum is mostly composed of relatively high earners who care far more than the average person about building wealth.sawhorse wrote:I wonder if the respondents are skewed as well such that those who make less are embarrassed to answer despite the anonymity of the poll. That's a problem you find with almost all polls.555 wrote:Anyway it doesn't matter. It's just a poll in a forum. It does show that this forum is strongly skewed towards higher incomes, much more than I expected.
Anyway there is value to anyone who comes here, but I don't see the same causation "I care more about building wealth therefore I'm here." Rather, "I better figure out what to do with this extra money."
At any rate, you're probably right. It's a combination of the two- "I have enough income that saving some of it isn't that hard" and "I don't want to work forever and I don't want to do the wrong thing with my money."
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Re: Household Gross Income Poll
There is always selection bias in these types of voluntary polls.
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Re: Household Gross Income Poll
Yes, but how much. Is it significant? I would submit it is nothing compared to the selection bias of people who come to this forum!TradingPlaces wrote:There is always selection bias in these types of voluntary polls.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy |
4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
Re: Household Gross Income Poll
Wait ... no, "I don't know and I don't care" option in the poll?!
Just kidding; I voted.
Just kidding; I voted.
Don't reach for yield.
Re: Household Gross Income Poll
I always get a chuckle from the peanut gallery responses. "The poll is flawed because …." or "My idiosyncratic situation didn't match the possible choices so the poll does not permit me to vote."
Folks, these polls are not meant to be scientific and perhaps not even fact-gathering. They are for entertainment purposes only.
And if I create a poll, it's for my entertainment and not the general public's entertainment. Some of you have seen a pre-poll of mine. I wanted to separate the pre-poll by a few months from a poll that I intend to create in order to reduce the comments from the peanut gallery.
Folks, these polls are not meant to be scientific and perhaps not even fact-gathering. They are for entertainment purposes only.
And if I create a poll, it's for my entertainment and not the general public's entertainment. Some of you have seen a pre-poll of mine. I wanted to separate the pre-poll by a few months from a poll that I intend to create in order to reduce the comments from the peanut gallery.
Re: Household Gross Income Poll
Hey! Where's the "I earn peanuts" option?livesoft wrote:I always get a chuckle from the peanut gallery responses. "The poll is flawed because …." or "My idiosyncratic situation didn't match the possible choices so the poll does not permit me to vote."
Folks, these polls are not meant to be scientific and perhaps not even fact-gathering. They are for entertainment purposes only.
And if I create a poll, it's for my entertainment and not the general public's entertainment. Some of you have seen a pre-poll of mine. I wanted to separate the pre-poll by a few months from a poll that I intend to create in order to reduce the comments from the peanut gallery.
Re: Household Gross Income Poll
That poll is on "ElephantHeads.org"Hey! Where's the "I earn peanuts" option?
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Re: Household Gross Income Poll
Agreed there is a selection bias on the forum. In my life most of the people I know with extra money have it by virtue of healthy salaries. I'm talking 100-200k, not the stuff you are exposed to. Sad there are those in the ranges you are talking about that can't accumulate wealth. I know you are doing your part to improve that.EmergDoc wrote:Extra money? Who do you know with extra money except people who care about building wealth enough to spend less than they earn. I know people making $50K, $100K, $200K, and $500K+ who don't feel like they have any extra money. I would argue that is the natural position of most people.JLJL wrote:I'm surprised by this comment ED. One cares because it is relevant. Why seek investing advice if you have various debts and/or are struggling just to make ends? Just because the "average" person isn't building as much wealth doesn't mean they care less.EmergDoc wrote:I doubt that's a huge factor on this forum. People here are pretty smart and get that stuff like this is anonymous. I've been hanging out here for a pretty long time, and the results of this poll jive pretty well with what I've seen and experienced here. This forum is mostly composed of relatively high earners who care far more than the average person about building wealth.sawhorse wrote:I wonder if the respondents are skewed as well such that those who make less are embarrassed to answer despite the anonymity of the poll. That's a problem you find with almost all polls.555 wrote:Anyway it doesn't matter. It's just a poll in a forum. It does show that this forum is strongly skewed towards higher incomes, much more than I expected.
Anyway there is value to anyone who comes here, but I don't see the same causation "I care more about building wealth therefore I'm here." Rather, "I better figure out what to do with this extra money."
At any rate, you're probably right. It's a combination of the two- "I have enough income that saving some of it isn't that hard" and "I don't want to work forever and I don't want to do the wrong thing with my money."
Re: Household Gross Income Poll
Or they got a scholarship (like me), worked, ect. No necessarily given to them by their parents...sawhorse wrote:Definitely. I can't believe how many 20-somethings there are on the board earning 6 figures with no student debt. I imagine that not a small number of them had all their college paid for by their parents.EmergDoc wrote:This forum just represents a very select sample of society-mostly high earning, mostly wealthy or rapidly on their way there.
I never thought that a household income of 131k a year (2015 projection) would put me below the median in an income poll!
Some of the responses I see on this board make me shake my head with how out of touch they are with the financial realities (in earning, spending, and lack of information) facing the average American household. And they also make me fear that if my wealth and income were to increase, I would increasingly post such responses.
Re: Household Gross Income Poll
27% of bogleheads make more than 300K! I think we need to strive harder to not make new posters feel relatively poor. Easy to say to max out all tax deferred accounts when making 350K vs. 50K. I think the focus should be more on saving 15-20% rather than "checking all the boxes" by maxing out all tax deferred space. I don't want to peer pressure some family guy making 70K to max out 2 401Ks and Roths while his kids eat Ramen noodles and can't afford the $20 entry fee to play rec league soccer. Money is ultimately for spending so there is some balance that needs to be achieved. Better to focus on percentages around here rather than gross raw numbers.
There are no guarantees, only probabilities.
Re: Household Gross Income Poll
Even if it is slightly skewed it has to be close to reality. I doubt too many households making less than 40k are on this board. Yes many of the principles still apply (live below your means) but instead of building a million plus retirement account many of those folks are concerned about provided the basic needs (food, shelter, clothing) and do not have too much left over.sawhorse wrote:I wonder if the respondents are skewed as well such that those who make less are embarrassed to answer despite the anonymity of the poll. That's a problem you find with almost all polls.555 wrote:Anyway it doesn't matter. It's just a poll in a forum. It does show that this forum is strongly skewed towards higher incomes, much more than I expected.
Just as if 80%+ of the people on this board made 250k+ a year many people like me (the low end of the 100-200k range) would be less likely to join because many of the topics would not be applicable to me.
Re: Household Gross Income Poll
Perhaps the reasons this forum is so heavily weighted towards the higher income crowd are that:
1) Retirement is typically something that people become more concerned about in their 50's, when their incomes are typically at their highest. This is when people typically begin saving in earnest, and become less concerned with having the latest consumer electronics, etc. This is the basis for many of the books using demographics to produce changes in the stock market written by Harry Dent, Jr. Younger people people are more typically concerned with getting out of debt, purchasing first homes and automobiles, etc. Witness the popularity of radio personalities like Dave Ramsey.
2) There is an abundance of resources available to those at the lower income ranges, and not much else directed at higher income individuals. Think Dave Ramsey, Clark Howard, Suzie Ormann, etc.
3) Fifty percent of the people in this country pay no federal income tax whatsoever, while the highest income people carry a proportionately heavy tax burden. It is not a surprise that the lower tax range folks have less interest in the frequent discussions of tax strategy that happen on this forum.
I don't believe that by changing the tone of the discussions, or using percentages instead of specific amounts, or any of the other strategies listed by posters above, will really change the nature of the forum's audience.
1) Retirement is typically something that people become more concerned about in their 50's, when their incomes are typically at their highest. This is when people typically begin saving in earnest, and become less concerned with having the latest consumer electronics, etc. This is the basis for many of the books using demographics to produce changes in the stock market written by Harry Dent, Jr. Younger people people are more typically concerned with getting out of debt, purchasing first homes and automobiles, etc. Witness the popularity of radio personalities like Dave Ramsey.
2) There is an abundance of resources available to those at the lower income ranges, and not much else directed at higher income individuals. Think Dave Ramsey, Clark Howard, Suzie Ormann, etc.
3) Fifty percent of the people in this country pay no federal income tax whatsoever, while the highest income people carry a proportionately heavy tax burden. It is not a surprise that the lower tax range folks have less interest in the frequent discussions of tax strategy that happen on this forum.
I don't believe that by changing the tone of the discussions, or using percentages instead of specific amounts, or any of the other strategies listed by posters above, will really change the nature of the forum's audience.
Re: Household Gross Income Poll
My girlfriend is "living in sin" with me, so not sure if we count as a "household", but I combined our incomes when voting.
Re: Household Gross Income Poll
Now I see why that "taxes on family with $200,000 of income" didn't go over too well. It would not apply to most people who replied to this poll and by inference to most people on the forum. It's nice being in the minority.
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Re: Household Gross Income Poll
Ditto.Paul78 wrote:Or they got a scholarship (like me), worked, ect. No necessarily given to them by their parents...sawhorse wrote:Definitely. I can't believe how many 20-somethings there are on the board earning 6 figures with no student debt. I imagine that not a small number of them had all their college paid for by their parents.EmergDoc wrote:This forum just represents a very select sample of society-mostly high earning, mostly wealthy or rapidly on their way there.
I never thought that a household income of 131k a year (2015 projection) would put me below the median in an income poll!
Some of the responses I see on this board make me shake my head with how out of touch they are with the financial realities (in earning, spending, and lack of information) facing the average American household. And they also make me fear that if my wealth and income were to increase, I would increasingly post such responses.
Neither of us had college (or grad school) paid for by parents.
It was scholarships, work, and student loans, and then fellowships and more student loans.
As for sawhorse's negative tone about some of the posts here...
Just because some are posting about the financial realities and concerns that are currently facing them, doesn't mean that they are "out of touch" with how it is for many/most others, or how it was for some of *us* before we got where we are now.
And there are plenty of folks posting here who are just starting out, or who had setbacks, and there is plenty of discussion about the types of financial concerns they face.
I think sawhorse might be surprised at how many of us went through periods of adversity before we got where we are now.
Sometimes severe adversity...
RM
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Re: Household Gross Income Poll
Playmaker79 wrote:100 to 200 is a pretty broad range. Two people in that bracket may not have much in common financially with each other
That's very true. Two working parents with a couple of kids, mortgage, car payments, pre-school, etc., @ $110K gross and 2 retired at $175K gross I suspect are worlds apart.
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Re: Household Gross Income Poll
Wow. I am impressed by the reported incomes here. My wife and I just barely break into the $100k subset based on line 22 ($116k). That was really only because of inherited assets that we had to realize taxes on this year (EE bonds and taxable dividends).
Prior to that we were below the $100k mark.
Kudos to the Borg!
Prior to that we were below the $100k mark.
Kudos to the Borg!
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Re: Household Gross Income Poll
Actually this is just selection bias.EmergDoc wrote:I've done enough of these polls to know that there is always something you didn't think to include that it's just best to leave that sort of option.
The results of the poll were about what I expected...after 125 responses, only 3% of Bogleheads earn less than the median US household income. It's like the net worth polls that show half of us are millionaires. This forum just represents a very select sample of society-mostly high earning, mostly wealthy or rapidly on their way there.
The folks who make money and/ or have wealth are more likely to seek out advice on how to invest/ handle such monies. Nothing surprising. I would have only been surprised if 1/2 were BELOW the median US household income.
Good luck.
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Re: Household Gross Income Poll
Just curious why we even care about household gross income or even AGI?
I think the annual numbers we should be caring about are: Amount of dollars saved per year and amount of dollars spent per year. The first is useful in the accumulation phase and the second in the withdrawal phase or right before deciding to retire.
In fact, I think saving rate is SO Important that it should be in the wiki sticky on asking for portfolio questions.
Good luck.
I think the annual numbers we should be caring about are: Amount of dollars saved per year and amount of dollars spent per year. The first is useful in the accumulation phase and the second in the withdrawal phase or right before deciding to retire.
In fact, I think saving rate is SO Important that it should be in the wiki sticky on asking for portfolio questions.
Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” |
-Jack Bogle
Re: Household Gross Income Poll
...And who know where to find Line 22.EmergDoc wrote:This forum just represents a very select sample of society-mostly high earning, mostly wealthy or rapidly on their way there...
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Re: Household Gross Income Poll
This was posted above and answers your question:staythecourse wrote:Just curious why we even care about household gross income or even AGI?
I think the annual numbers we should be caring about are: Amount of dollars saved per year and amount of dollars spent per year. The first is useful in the accumulation phase and the second in the withdrawal phase or right before deciding to retire.
In fact, I think saving rate is SO Important that it should be in the wiki sticky on asking for portfolio questions.
Good luck.
"In the past, there have been comments here (on BH) about how someone or other feels like they are doing poorly (or doing something "wrong"), because everyone else seems to have so much more."
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Re: Household Gross Income Poll
Embarrassed? I think I would be more proud that I am saving a high rate with a lower income and generating more net worth than those making more/spending more!sawhorse wrote:I wonder if the respondents are skewed as well such that those who make less are embarrassed to answer despite the anonymity of the poll. That's a problem you find with almost all polls.555 wrote:Anyway it doesn't matter. It's just a poll in a forum. It does show that this forum is strongly skewed towards higher incomes, much more than I expected.
Re: Household Gross Income Poll
A poll like this one really makes me feel poor.
Last edited by HueyLD on Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Household Gross Income Poll
- selection bias of people who come to this forum!EmergDoc wrote:Yes, but how much. Is it significant? I would submit it is nothing compared to the selection bias of people who come to this forum!TradingPlaces wrote:There is always selection bias in these types of voluntary polls.
That second part is like stating the obvious.
- it is nothing compared
How do you qualify nothing?
- I would submit.
What is your basis?
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Re: Household Gross Income Poll
There is an easy way to solve this issue.
Simply require that people who sign up, also answer this question.
Simply require that people who sign up, also answer this question.
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Re: Household Gross Income Poll
I am not saying any of these SHOULD be queried, but if someone is going to ask then gross income has NO use even to compare to others. It seems rather infantile to even ask let alone care what someone else makes. I just question the use of even asking?BogleBoogie wrote:This was posted above and answers your question:staythecourse wrote:Just curious why we even care about household gross income or even AGI?
I think the annual numbers we should be caring about are: Amount of dollars saved per year and amount of dollars spent per year. The first is useful in the accumulation phase and the second in the withdrawal phase or right before deciding to retire.
In fact, I think saving rate is SO Important that it should be in the wiki sticky on asking for portfolio questions.
Good luck.
"In the past, there have been comments here (on BH) about how someone or other feels like they are doing poorly (or doing something "wrong"), because everyone else seems to have so much more."
Now asking how much one saves, savings %, and how much one spends in a year are all important data for every investor to know. These are all numbers that do impact how one invests, when they retire, how much need in retirement, etc...
Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” |
-Jack Bogle
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Re: Household Gross Income Poll
Interesting poll results, though it's about what I expected -- BHs are well above "average". But I also think that's natural given the purpose of the forum. People just getting by, or happily living in debt, don't have much use for investment forums.
As others have suggested, if you want to take the poll to the next level, it'd be interesting to see age & household family status (SINC, DINK, SI/DI+kids) correlated to the income numbers. e.g. A SINC making $150k is probably in a better position to invest than DI+kids with the same income.
As others have suggested, if you want to take the poll to the next level, it'd be interesting to see age & household family status (SINC, DINK, SI/DI+kids) correlated to the income numbers. e.g. A SINC making $150k is probably in a better position to invest than DI+kids with the same income.
Re: Household Gross Income Poll
It's for entertainment purposes only ( the original poster's no doubt ), or it's a talleywacker measuring contest. Certainly nothing actionable here.staythecourse wrote:I am not saying any of these SHOULD be queried, but if someone is going to ask then gross income has NO use even to compare to others. It seems rather infantile to even ask let alone care what someone else makes. I just question the use of even asking?BogleBoogie wrote:This was posted above and answers your question:staythecourse wrote:Just curious why we even care about household gross income or even AGI?
I think the annual numbers we should be caring about are: Amount of dollars saved per year and amount of dollars spent per year. The first is useful in the accumulation phase and the second in the withdrawal phase or right before deciding to retire.
In fact, I think saving rate is SO Important that it should be in the wiki sticky on asking for portfolio questions.
Good luck.
"In the past, there have been comments here (on BH) about how someone or other feels like they are doing poorly (or doing something "wrong"), because everyone else seems to have so much more."
Now asking how much one saves, savings %, and how much one spends in a year are all important data for every investor to know. These are all numbers that do impact how one invests, when they retire, how much need in retirement, etc...
Good luck.
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Re: Household Gross Income Poll
And based on postings we occasionally get, I imagine it makes many lower-income and lower-net-worth forum readers feel poor, and feel bad, and feel that they are outsiders who aren't welcome in the forum.HueyLD wrote:A poll like this one really makes me feel poor.
I agree with ninegrams, I don't see what's actionable here. What difference should it make in my investing strategy to know the poll responses of Bogleheads who choose to answer polls about their gross income?
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.