Getting married-do I really need a will?

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JGoneRiding
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Getting married-do I really need a will?

Post by JGoneRiding »

I am getting married soon. I live in a community property state. Previously I haven't had a will as my parents are married to each other and my state insitu law clearly gives everything to them. But now it would all go to my spouse, which I am fine with. So do I need a will yet? And if so would a fill in the blank do it yourself work for this situation? I do have 3 properties. One is owned with my mother as owners in common and my interest would transfer straight to her.
sawhorse
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Re: Getting married-do I really need a will?

Post by sawhorse »

That depends on whether you want specific things to go to people or organizations other than your spouse. There are minimums that you have to give your spouse, absent (and maybe even present) a pre-nup in some states, but beyond that it depends on whether you want things to be doled out in a specific way.

I have multiple beneficiaries for my retirement accounts. Naturally my husband is one, but I also have other family members and charities getting a share of my retirement accounts.

With the property co-owned with your mother, I recommend verifying that it will indeed entirely transfer to your mother and not partially to your spouse.
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whatusername?
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Re: Getting married-do I really need a will?

Post by whatusername? »

Make sure that's really the case. In my community property state, only half goes to your spouse. Without a will, your half would go to your kids, parents, siblings, or their heirs depending on the situation, but never to your spouse.
downshiftme
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Re: Getting married-do I really need a will?

Post by downshiftme »

I am also in a state that intestate rules only send a proportion of assets to my spouse. Remainder would go to my parents and siblings, which makes no sense. Besides, I don't want to be dependent on the default action of state law when it is so easy to simply specify what I want.
Gill
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Re: Getting married-do I really need a will?

Post by Gill »

Get a will. Do you really want the state determining your personal representative and the disposition of your property'?
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jackholloway
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Re: Getting married-do I really need a will?

Post by jackholloway »

Make a will. The fill in the blank one from our states website was good enough until we had kids and complicated finances.
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Re: Getting married-do I really need a will?

Post by hicabob »

jackholloway wrote:Make a will. The fill in the blank one from our states website was good enough until we had kids and complicated finances.
I second the idea of doing a fill in the blank state will. Going through the process will let you know if you need something more elaborate. It's a good start, educational and leaves you with a simple legal will.
Here's CA's simple will ... http://www.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/0/docu ... l-Form.pdf
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Matahari
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Re: Getting married-do I really need a will?

Post by Matahari »

5 Estate Planning Essentials for Newlyweds:

http://www.financial-planning.com/blogs ... 284-1.html

Google for a link if you can't read the article.

At the very least, make sure you implement TOD arrangements and update your beneficiaries.
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Re: Getting married-do I really need a will?

Post by LadyGeek »

Matahari wrote:...At the very least, make sure you implement TOD arrangements and update your beneficiaries.
^^^ This. Transfer On Death accounts mean anything that has a beneficiary, such as your bank accounts, CDs, IRA, and 401(k). By having a beneficiary, you are removing these assets from your estate (transferred to someone else upon death) and cannot be part of a will nor subject to estate probate taxes.

See the wiki: Estate planning
An estate is a legal entity created as the result of a person’s death. The decedent’s estate is a separate legal entity for federal tax purposes.[2]

An estate consists of real and/or personal property of the deceased person. The estate pays any debts owed by the decedent and then distributes the balance of the estate’s assets to the beneficiaries of the estate.

The estate exists until the final distribution of the assets is made to the heirs and other beneficiaries.
If there are no beneficiaries, then the assets become part of the estate and the will takes over. If you have one.

Update: Corrected type of tax, see below.
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Carefreeap
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Re: Getting married-do I really need a will?

Post by Carefreeap »

I'm assuming that your future DH loves animals as much as you do but does he really?

I'd make sure your pets are well cared for via a legal document. Probably not necessary but it's the way I'm wired. You can check this link which you've probably already read.

http://ymam.proboards.com/thread/44604/putting-pet
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LeeMKE
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Re: Getting married-do I really need a will?

Post by LeeMKE »

DIY will is plenty for the time being. Just keeps things tidy.
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nisiprius
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Re: Getting married-do I really need a will?

Post by nisiprius »

The catch-22 is that you'd need to be a lawyer, knowledgeable in the estate law of your own state--because estate law is state law and different in every state--to know whether you really need a will. Of course a lawyer is likely to say you do, and my belief is the lawyer would be right. "Everyone" says you do.

My suggestion is that you mentally brace yourself for a cost on the order of several hundreds of dollars for the five or so documents you probably need (two wills, two durable powers of attorney, and a partridge in a pear tree), and go see a lawyer. If a lawyer says you don't really need one, you can be pretty confident you don't need one. If the lawyer says you do, then you have to decide whether his explanation is convincing.

Common sense is unreliable with regard to the law, but my common sense says that even if the will merely confirms what would happen without a will, it is probably a good idea to have one because it is likely to expedite whatever needs to be done. Common sense says that if you die without a will, the question "was there a will?" needs to be settled, and I don't see how it can be quick or easy to prove to a court that there isn't one.

My will is what the lawyers call an "I-love-you-honey will." That is to say it's just what you'd expect. I think I need it anyway.

It doesn't come into play at this point, but an extremely important reason why you need a will once you have kids is to name who will be guardians of the kids if both parents die.

By the way, there are always special cases... if you do see a lawyer you will be astonished at how many questions you need to answer of the form "but what do you want to happen if person X predeceases person Y leaving no issue?" Some of these contingencies will seem so incredible as to be shocking, but I regret to say I have personal experience that some of these seemingly remote contingencies lawyers come up can actually happen and the will had better deal with them.
Last edited by nisiprius on Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Getting married-do I really need a will?

Post by VictoriaF »

nisiprius wrote:Common sense says that if you die without a will, the question "was there a will?" needs to be settled, and I don't see how it can be quick or easy to prove to a court that there isn't one.
Proving the absence is difficult if not impossible. But a similarly difficult question is "was there a more recent will?" Say, one had a will done in 1990 and has not updated it since. Would the courts accept that the 1990 will has not been superseded, or they would insist on a search for a more recent one?

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Re: Getting married-do I really need a will?

Post by nisiprius »

VictoriaF wrote:
nisiprius wrote:Common sense says that if you die without a will, the question "was there a will?" needs to be settled, and I don't see how it can be quick or easy to prove to a court that there isn't one.
Proving the absence is difficult if not impossible. But a similarly difficult question is "was there a more recent will?" Say, one had a will done in 1990 and has not updated it since. Would the courts accept that the 1990 will has not been superseded, or they would insist on a search for a more recent one?

Victoria
All these things are human issues involving human judgement, and when I think them through the conclusion I come to is that yes, society actually does need lawyers and wills and probate courts 'n' stuff. For every step of the process, it is easy to think of similar questions and "corner cases."
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Louis Winthorpe III
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Re: Getting married-do I really need a will?

Post by Louis Winthorpe III »

VictoriaF wrote:
nisiprius wrote:Common sense says that if you die without a will, the question "was there a will?" needs to be settled, and I don't see how it can be quick or easy to prove to a court that there isn't one.
Proving the absence is difficult if not impossible. But a similarly difficult question is "was there a more recent will?" Say, one had a will done in 1990 and has not updated it since. Would the courts accept that the 1990 will has not been superseded, or they would insist on a search for a more recent one?

Victoria
The 1990 will would have the presumption of being the only will. If nobody comes forward with evidence that it had been superseded (most likely in the form of a subsequent document), the 1990 will would be respected.
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Re: Getting married-do I really need a will?

Post by VictoriaF »

Louis Winthorpe III wrote:
VictoriaF wrote:
nisiprius wrote:Common sense says that if you die without a will, the question "was there a will?" needs to be settled, and I don't see how it can be quick or easy to prove to a court that there isn't one.
Proving the absence is difficult if not impossible. But a similarly difficult question is "was there a more recent will?" Say, one had a will done in 1990 and has not updated it since. Would the courts accept that the 1990 will has not been superseded, or they would insist on a search for a more recent one?

Victoria
The 1990 will would have the presumption of being the only will. If nobody comes forward with evidence that it had been superseded (most likely in the form of a subsequent document), the 1990 will would be respected.
You just have given me a license to procrastinate. Thanks!

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Re: Getting married-do I really need a will?

Post by harrylime »

LadyGeek wrote:^^^ This. Transfer On Death accounts mean anything that has a beneficiary, such as your bank accounts, CDs, IRA, and 401(k). By having a beneficiary, you are removing these assets from your estate (transferred to someone else upon death) and cannot be part of a will nor subject to estate taxes.
Technically, accounts with a beneficiary, including TOD accounts, are not part of the probate estate. Generally, they are still part of the gross estate and, therefore, subject to estate/inheritance taxes.
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Re: Getting married-do I really need a will?

Post by LadyGeek »

Thank you, I have corrected my previous post.
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dm200
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Re: Getting married-do I really need a will?

Post by dm200 »

The estate planning attorney that did our most recent wills, etc. gives an actual case of why almost everyone needs a will. This is a case of a recently married couple - with no will. .

Newly married couple. Neither has a will. Husband has significant life insurance policy with new wife as beneficiary. No other significant assets. Family gathering - husband has a headache and takes Tylenol. Wife takes Tylenol 15 minutes later. The Tylenol was poisoned. Husband becomes seriously ill - ambulance is called. Wife becomes very ill a few minutes later. Both rushed to hospital. Husband dies and 15 minutes later wife dies. Times of death are well documented.

Husband's family files for life insurance - beneficiary (wife) deceased - they are nearest relatives. "Just a minute", says wife's family. "She was beneficiary. He died first, money goes to her. Then, she dies, money goes to us."

Case went to court. Judge decided that it was completely clear that without a will and since it was clear and documented that husband died first - money goes to wife's family.

Was this what the late husband would have wanted? Situation could have been different with a properly drafted will that put in writing and in a legal document what he wanted to happen.
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Re: Getting married-do I really need a will?

Post by davidlukewilcox »

dm200 wrote:The estate planning attorney that did our most recent wills, etc. gives an actual case of why almost everyone needs a will. This is a case of a recently married couple - with no will.
Dm200, I'm sure that there are situations like the one you discussed where having a lawyer draft a will for you would help. However, the probability of such a situation happening is rather low and the consequences not so awful compared to the risk that I'm still not sure if it makes sense for most people to pay to draft one.

I don't believe in paying to minimize all risk from life. I believe in paying to maximize my expected outcome. Sometimes expected outcome is maximized be doing nothing and accepting tiny risks.

Here's an example. Driving is incredibly risky. I'm sure you still do it though since the alternative isn't very palatable.
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Re: Getting married-do I really need a will?

Post by dm200 »

Driving is incredibly risky. I'm sure you still do it though since the alternative isn't very palatable.
I agree about the risks of driving, but I make 100% sure I carry the necessary and appropriate insurance coverage.
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Re: Getting married-do I really need a will?

Post by nisiprius »

davidlukewilcox wrote:...However, the probability of such a situation happening is rather low...
You might be surprised. I'd be curious to hear from lawyers, but this seems to me like a perfect example of "black swan" territory. WIthin my extended circle of acquaintances, the number of weird, seemingly-low-probability situations that arise when people die seems much higher than intuition suggests. Among other things, I think we systematically overestimate the probability that the older of two people will die first.
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Re: Getting married-do I really need a will?

Post by Levett »

Nisi wrote: "I think we systematically overestimate the probability that the older of two people will die first."

That's been my observation over many years.

I think many also assume that it's the children who will outlive their parents.

Sadly, that's not what I've seen on several occasions.

Lev
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JGoneRiding
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Re: Getting married-do I really need a will?

Post by JGoneRiding »

Matahari wrote:5 Estate Planning Essentials for Newlyweds:

http://www.financial-planning.com/blogs ... 284-1.html

Google for a link if you can't read the article.

At the very least, make sure you implement TOD arrangements and update your beneficiaries.
Thank you I love.having a step process to discuss stuff
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Re: Getting married-do I really need a will?

Post by Matahari »

JGoneRiding wrote:
Matahari wrote:5 Estate Planning Essentials for Newlyweds:

http://www.financial-planning.com/blogs ... 284-1.html

Google for a link if you can't read the article.

At the very least, make sure you implement TOD arrangements and update your beneficiaries.
Thank you I love having a step process to discuss stuff
Just keep it simple at the outset. If/when you have children, you will need wills to address (1) guardianship for minor children, (2) what happens in (unlikely event of) a common disaster.

Revisit and reconsider every few years until children are adults or when life circumstances change. Best wishes!
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Re: Getting married-do I really need a will?

Post by whatusername? »

nisiprius wrote:
davidlukewilcox wrote:...However, the probability of such a situation happening is rather low...
You might be surprised. I'd be curious to hear from lawyers, but this seems to me like a perfect example of "black swan" territory. WIthin my extended circle of acquaintances, the number of weird, seemingly-low-probability situations that arise when people die seems much higher than intuition suggests. Among other things, I think we systematically overestimate the probability that the older of two people will die first.
Former EMT's take: Car crashes with both spouses aren't that uncommon. Happen every day.
Current knee-jerk take: A will is just like any other sort of risk management tool. You purchase insurance to protect against the improbable; why not look at your will as a way to uncomplicated matters for your family if you are the improbable case?

In my state, there is an option for a much streamlined probate process that is faster, cheaper, and requires less court involvement than "traditional" probate. The catch is that it's only available if you have a will and specify you want that type of probate. It was worth the cost of the will for that savings alone. Just a bonus that I got to decide exactly how I want my assets divided rather than let the state do it for me.
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Re: Getting married-do I really need a will?

Post by nordlead »

dm200 wrote:The estate planning attorney that did our most recent wills, etc. gives an actual case of why almost everyone needs a will. This is a case of a recently married couple - with no will. .

Newly married couple. Neither has a will. Husband has significant life insurance policy with new wife as beneficiary. No other significant assets. Family gathering - husband has a headache and takes Tylenol. Wife takes Tylenol 15 minutes later. The Tylenol was poisoned. Husband becomes seriously ill - ambulance is called. Wife becomes very ill a few minutes later. Both rushed to hospital. Husband dies and 15 minutes later wife dies. Times of death are well documented.

Husband's family files for life insurance - beneficiary (wife) deceased - they are nearest relatives. "Just a minute", says wife's family. "She was beneficiary. He died first, money goes to her. Then, she dies, money goes to us."

Case went to court. Judge decided that it was completely clear that without a will and since it was clear and documented that husband died first - money goes to wife's family.

Was this what the late husband would have wanted? Situation could have been different with a properly drafted will that put in writing and in a legal document what he wanted to happen.


eh, I'm dead, my wife is dead, and I have no kids. Unless one of the two sets of parents is poor that case doesn't show me why everyone needs a will.
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